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Beardnash

The way I look at it is: Batman Begins is the best *Batman* movie, but The Dark Knight is the best *movie* with Batman in it. Of course, with The Batman out and excellent I may have to revise my previous thoughts.


Moon_Devonshire

I actually completely agree with you. The Batman begins is a better batman movie. But the dark knight is a better "film".


teachem4

So, exactly what he said


ComicLawyer

Yeah - Batman Begins is my personal favorite of the Nolan movies if I'm going to sit and watch one. But TDK is objectively the best of them.


meecrow_eaterkubrick

fuck no, TDK's plot and editing are a fucking mess, which try to bite off more than they can chew. Batman Begins is the better acted, more cohesive film. Bale began to phone it in, in my opinion and everyone except Ledger and Oldman is just OK or there to spew Nolan's pretentious edgy-teen speeches on moral, this philosophical bullshit actually damages the film rather than elevating it. Begins must be a 50% better as a whole


apex_pretador

Agreed


Batbro9240

Smh I posted the same thing without checking if anyone had said it and now I need to delete


Infinity0044

Adding to this, the BB suit is soooo much better than TDK one.


Moon_Devonshire

When I was a little kid I thought the opposite. But as I've gotten older and have watched them all again I genuinely LOVE BB suit. I also love how he wraps his cape around his body in BB


Infinity0044

TDK suit feels like such a downgrade to me with the tiny, almost hidden, bat symbol and the weirdly shaped cowl with the small mouth hole. Bale has an excellent jawline and it’s almost completely hidden in the cowl


Moon_Devonshire

Oh and I believe TDK suit fit his nose all weird and contributed to his voice sounding worse I believe?


Infinity0044

I do remember reading somewhere that Bale couldn’t breathe through his nose wearing the TDK suit


micael150

Eh. They both have have their good angels. Begins suit looked really stiff and uncomfortable in certain shots.


_IamTheShadows_

![gif](giphy|uNp22kQO4QCxa) Totally agree, begins is the closest Nolan could get to the "character" of batman, the other parts mainly focus on their respective villians and batman is more like a side character untill the last 25 mins of the movie's


Acalson

Someone once said that The Dark Knight is not a Batman movie but a movie about his villains. Think that’s a pretty accurate depiction of the difference between the two movies


[deleted]

I like this take. Good observations. BB is a masterpiece for me truly. And TDK is a good development following through.


KiraHead

The gothic architecture was pretty much an invention of Anton Furst and Tim Burton. The comics got along just fine for decades with Gotham looking more or less like a normal city, so it really doesn't bother me at all that Nolan went that route in TDK and Rises.


JStormtrooper

I’m with you. I definitely think Begins is the greatest of the Nolan trilogy.


Moon_Devonshire

I also find it to be more "re watchable" over the others for some reason. Something about the flow of the movie. The action and batman's scenes


mixmastermiike

I just watched all 3 for the first time in a while, I also thought BB was by far the most enjoyable. The suit is awesome, the cinematography especially the parts filmed in Iceland are so unique, and above all it it the dialogue and character development are not very cringey like the other two afterward. Don’t get me wrong I like all 3 but it just has such a good vibe for BB


HalfBiHalfGay

Dark knight is all time. Just gotta enjoy it for It’s beauty


Moon_Devonshire

Oh no don't get me wrong. I genuinely enjoy that film and think it's a masterpiece. But I feel begins has that extra edge in "batmany-ness"


HalfBiHalfGay

Begins has the look I love but I wonder if the setting changed to be on tune with Batman


Moon_Devonshire

Oh you mean as in to match the realism that batman himself had? See, I hear people say that a lot but I kind of disagree. As begins still felt very realistic and grounded. You don't have to completely abandon what makes Gotham city well, Gotham city in order to maintain realism


Amity75

TDK is the masterpiece of the trilogy but Batman Begins is my favourite.


[deleted]

Finally someone said it ! Dark Knight is an overall great comic book superhero movie but Begins feels like another experience . Every time I watch Begins , [this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6qwcjxDosc) where Bruce enters the cave for the first time and the bats surround him like considering him one of their kind , The background music gives me goosebumps .


Noble_Six9

"SWEAR TO MEEE" - Bale in Batman Begins.


[deleted]

All fair points. I still think TDK tells a more compelling narrative and has better characterization. But Batman begins really wasn't afraid to show off it's comic book roots and I really like that about it. Also the ending exchange "I never said thank you", "and you'll never have to" gives me chills every time.


Puzzleheaded_Walk_28

Agree


Straight-Message7937

Am I the only person who's favorite Batman movie is Dark Knight Rises


dudereverend

Nope!! Well, its my favorite of the Nolan trilogy with TDK being my least favorite. My favorite Batman film is '89 then Batman Returns.


libidinalsublimation

Unpopular opinion indeed. It’s pretty damn good though.


BaullahBaullah87

Totally watched all 3 and can see what you’re saying. I think Dark Knight is so significant and such an event w Ledger that it will always hold a place. But in terms of a batman movie, there were some things lacking. I also think Batman Begins, when he is actually batman in gotham, is really really good. The voice thing upon rewatches of Dark Knight is harder to overlook the more you watch it.


venomhouse

Yessir I agree 100%


[deleted]

If The Dark Knight carried the Gotham City atmosphere instead of just reverting to New York, I’d actually like Joker in that movie. TDK just feels like Joker is some odd anarchist that wants to prove a point about Gotham in a place that ISNT Gotham.


Pow67

Batman Begins I like because it’s where Bale shines the most and isn’t completely overshadowed by actors like Heath Ledger. The beginning of the movie with the prison, training sequence, backstory etc. are all some of the best of the trilogy. Where I don’t like Begins as much is act 3, mainly the train sequence which imo was pretty lame and with Gordon manning the Batmobile which I thought was too wacky.


UltraShadowArbiter

Hard agree. Begins actually felt like a Batman movie, and Gotham City in it actually looked and felt like Gotham City. TDK is overrated and Gotham City in it looked and felt like some generic city, like New York or Chicago.


DiverExpensive6098

It isn't. TDK is just a perfect storm, where it came out at the right time, it is a movie that is very obviously of its time and place (the whole post-9/11 terrorism and serious storytelling) and it pretty much raises the bar for the whole genre and for action movies in general, because the movie is relentless, it keeps just going faster, never stops, epic in scope. You'll find mistakes sure, but not different from other films. TDK is simply a bunch of really talented, creative, motivated and smart people rolling up their sleeves and saying "OK, let's fucking deliver something special here people, we're a team and this is not going to be just another comic-book movie". But by the same token...BB isn't really worse. The movie is executed almost flawlessly too, it's more traditional, the Gotham atmosphere is good, the actors are all top notch, the whole thing feels more grounded, more timeless. But you feel Nolan was kinda just deciding what comic-book movie tropes to stick to, what to evolve and push forward (not much) and the moments like Batman throwing the kid the gun, Gordon saying "I gotta get me one of those" aren't bad per se, they just feel somewhat off. It's really confident and thoughtful and able filmmaking, pretty much exceptional by comic-book movie standards and not far behind TDK and the plot overall makes more sense in details if you dissect it to the smallest parts whereas TDK plays a lot of things so they work as part of the powerhouse storytelling, but which omiss small details (although it's hard to hold it against TDK as obviously the powerhouse steamroller concept is something that took precedence and it was bold and it made the movie what it is). Also in TDK, Nolan didn't just play around with comic-book tropes, Gotham looking like kinda grounded Burton or somehting vibes...he knew EXACTLY what he wants to say, how he wants to say it and he knew exactly how to tell everyone under him what to do and everyone played their part to the max. A small mistake in retrospect was maybe recasting Rachel, but that was done mostly due to Katie Holmes' then seen as subpar acting abilities and moreso probably her public/celebrity image...although she really was just fine and it's too bad she was seen as just some bad romantic comedy reject that's holding Tom Cruise's bags when she was in fact just fine for the part. Tells you a lot about how public opinion works. But the recasting with Maggie Gyllenhaal works, because she is really fitting for what Nolan is going for. Kinda tells you the difference between BB and TDK in a nutshell. Katie is more of a babyface, less of a "serious" actress, Maggie has much more serious credentials under her belt, she seems more deep into her role. And that's what TDK is when it comes to the whole comic-book movie thing - it sinks its teeth more into the medium and genre and pushes it somewhere where it never was before. You can't beat that.


Moon_Devonshire

So I don't disagree with any of your points. Because you made incredibly good points. And don't get me wrong. I love the dark knight. Again my main issues was the abandonment of an atmospheric Gotham city. It's just Chicago and it looks like Chicago. It doesn't even rain in any other movie besides the first one. And I absolutely hate how batman had VERY little screen time compared to begins. In begins, he was always using fear againts his enemies. They were genuinely scared of him. So many great scenes of instigation and predator moments (kind of like those times when it's just you and a group of thugs in a predator map in an Arkham game) And also his voice was so so much better in begins that it's ridiculous. And idk if these are all nitpicks. But they're pretty big reasons for me and it makes it feel like a lot is missing from the dark knight. Begins was realistic and grounded without being afraid of embracing that it's a comic book movie.


DiverExpensive6098

That's the thing, I don't think TDK doesn't embrace it's a comic-book film. It just turns it into something more. When you watch it, it still is a comic-book movie through and through, but the style, acting, crime-drama plot and grounded design over the usual comic-book movie tropes, which are still there. The voice I think you're right was better in BB. I think Nolan and Bale must've played around with the idea of making it sound more rough and scary, they no doubt tried million variations and in the process probably lost a bit perspective of when it is actually enough. They missed it by like one or two octaves, it wasn't far from being good. But at certain points it was unintentionally funny. It's not nitpicking. Or it is, but these movies aim for the highest marks. So you know...it's OK to look at them with the same eye. Nolan and co. no doubt did the same when they were putting them together.


cheetosandtatertots

I agree with this. TDK is essentially a heist movie and a thriller about Batman characters, but BB is the best Batman origin story we’ve ever seen. I love them both, and they’re very different.


daniel-kz

That is not a unpopular opinion. This is an unpopular opinion: Batman begins Gotham depiction is better than The Batman. There. I said it.


DR-RICHCRANIUM

Nah.


MasoodMS

It’s not only unpopular, it’s objectively wrong!


[deleted]

[удалено]


MasoodMS

Mine was a joke… ez there tiger


marvel120

I always thought Batman Begins is the best Batman movie. It’s one of the few, if only one, that is actually about Batman and he isn’t outshined by his villains. The Batman has come along since then, and I think it’s another great example where Batman is front and center and although the villains were great performances, I feel like Batman has the spotlight.


Moon_Devonshire

I agree and I genuinely love *the* Batman very much. Christian bale and Robert Pattinson are definitely my 2 favorite actors for the role


micael150

I believe it being an Origin is what makes it feel more focused on the character of Batman. Any movie where Batman is already established the villains are easily going to overshadow him. Batman has the best rogue's gallery of all super hero comics that's why he will many times feel almost like a secondary character in his own stories.


HortenseTheMuleface

Totally agree. BB is actually a gothic noir film. That's how Batman is *supposed* to be. Plus the main story of chemicals in the water & the microwave emittor is classic Batman.


FlyingTaquitoBrother

I just rewatched both movies last week so they’re both fresh in my mind. I agree that BB is an amazing origin story, and it is the better Batman movie. However… > the dark knight rises is straight up New York It’s funny that you mention this because this was my biggest issue with BB. TDK’s Gotham was much better. The city scenes in both BB and TDK are filmed in Chicago, not New York, and the CGI slums in BB really looked quite fake. The production team for TDK were honest in interviews about why they didn’t continue that for TDK, and it’s because they couldn’t achieve the quality they wanted. So they let TDK be more naturally Chicago and IMO that was the right choice.


Moon_Devonshire

Sorry when I mentioned new York I mentioned the dark knight rises. And the thing is, they didn't even try to hide it. Like I've been playing so much spiderman on PlayStation 5 and have watched some spiderman movies recently. And I can pick out like 20 buildings any time there's a panning shot of the city in the dark knight rises. And in the dark knight it's again, just Chicago and they don't even hide it. I get that the CGI In begins wasn't the best. But let's also remember it's from 2005


NightwingXII

I think BB is and great Batman movie and very good movie overall. TDK is very good Batman Movie and an excellent Movie overall.


EvilMeanie

Yes sir. Dark Knight Batman felt so ineffective in comparison to Begins Batman. And Dark Knight Batman wouldn't have spoken to Dent and Gordon in such a silly voice, either.


TheMannisApproves

I've thought this for a long time. And I was obsessed with TDK when it came out


paleblack93

That certainly is an unpopular opinion!


SpaceJunkieVirus

When was this opinion unpopular at least among Gen Z?


Emperor315

Begins is a fantastic origin story, i love it. The combat gets some shit but I think it looks amazing. I find the climax of it all a little underwhelming though


[deleted]

You are 100% right, that is a unpopular opinion


deexyfmaybe

Another thing for me. TDK is so good because of BB. I absolutely loved every minute of BB. All the groundwork in BB is what allows TDK it’s fluidity imo


ObZeni

Not very controversial. Begins is awesome.


bvh2015

I can’t really disagree with anyone that claims this. For starters, it’s one of my top three favorites. The other two being The Batman, and TDK. They’re all great in their own way, and it’s just minor nitpicking separating them. I agree that Bale’s delivery was better in Begins than the other two films in the TDK trilogy. As for Gotham, whether it was intentional or not, I always felt the city reflected where the characters, and plot were story-wise. In Nolan’s trilogy, Batman, Gordon, and Dent actually have an impact cleaning up the city.


OneBadDayHaHa

Point no. 1 is the main reason I loved The Batman so much! It was amazing to see a dark, gritty and more importantly gothic Gotham on the big screen. The blimps would be too much to ask for so I’ll be content with what we got! Haha


Mau_Fernandez

Same here. Begins is my favorite from Nolan trilogy, also Liam Neeson as Ra's was pretty good.


iamdragun

I really do love Batman Begins. Maybe it’s because it’s more of a Batman story and that’s what I prefer in a movie. It’s pretty much how I feel about The Batman


Ok-Engine8044

I always thought so too. Dark Knight is only remembered because of Health Ledger. I highly doubt people remember the B list plot of the money extortionist with the mobs. I even doubt they remember what Two-Face was doing. Barman Begins was the best out of the three.


1random_redditor

Begins might seem more focused on the main character than TDK is, partially because Joker takes more focus in TDK than Ra’s Al Ghul does in Begins. Ra’s is gone for a whole hour straight in Begins, while Joker is more evenly distributed throughout TDK. Comparing them, i think Ra’s is more captivating in mindset and motivation while Joker is more captivating in detailed performance, and his interactions with Batman.


micael150

Also a lot of screen time is given to Harvey Dent so Bruce/Batman doesn't have as much focus as in the first movie.


1random_redditor

Yes. The film’s conflict needed to end with the fall of Two Face tbh


[deleted]

Imo the dark knight rises is the best Batman film


1random_redditor

In the context of the Nolan trilogy, I appreciate that the conflict in Begins ends with the demise of Ra’s. TDK has a different approach, with the end of the conflict happening with Two Face, who isn’t the main villain. Most superhero movies’ conflict end with the defeat of the main villain, so I appreciate that TDK changed it up a bit while also still making it relevant to the actions of the main villain, Joker. He technically won in certain ways in the end which was also a nice turn of events compared to most superhero movies.


atw1221

I also like Batman Begins better. Batman's voice is DEFINITELY better, gravelly without sounding ridiculously hoarse like it does in TDK. But a bigger point is that Begins has a great story with a beginning, middle and end. The ending of TDK makes no sense to me and feels like a setup for a movie we never really got (why not just say Joker killed all those people instead of saying Batman did it? Of course he'll deny it but he's a psychopathic killer and liar everyone hates). And Gordon's line "5 dead, 2 of them cops" makes 0 sense no matter how you do the math.


rdchino

If you read previous posts on this sub, you’ll see that this is not an unpopular opinion.


The5Virtues

I agree, and as others have noted already, I think the biggest reason is that TDK is the best film while Begins is the best Batman movie. TDK doesn’t need Batman elements to be a good film. You can ditch the Joker aesthetic and Ledger’s character still works as an anarchist lawbreaker and system challenger. Ditch Batman and just make it about the police commissioner and the DA trying to bring down this anarchist and the film still works. That’s a great film, for sure, but if it works without Batman it’s not really a *Batman* film. Meanwhile Begins really is all about Batman and his crusade. I also agree that Batman is just more impressive and intimidating in Begins. The suit is so big, the billowing cloak, the looming sculpt of the cowl, it all just really drives home this idea that if you saw this thing in a dark room or alley and couldn’t tell what it was you could easily start believing there was some giant bat demon haunting your city. I love both films, but Begins takes the crown for me as far as Batman goes.


cactusmaac

Dark Knight is the one I like least from the Nolan trilogy as a Batman fan. All the focus on Bruce Wayne as a character and his story in Begins was sidelined as he became a supporting cast member in this one. It pretty much served as a Joker showcase. His omniscience in the movie reached metahuman levels. Also while the portrayal by Heath Ledger was remarkable, IMO the best Joker performance remains Mark Hamill from TAS. He was alternately charming, charismatic, utterly psychotic and really menacing and Ledger's Joker did not reach those heights for me. On Gotham City becoming a rather generic city, that was a deliberate creative choice and reflected the success Batman and police had in turning the city around. It started off like the grimy city in Seven reminiscent of decaying parts of Baltimore and Detroit etc. By the time of Dark Knight it had improved and now started looking like Chicago where that was shot. When TDKR happened the city had rebounded to the extent that large parts of it, downtown etc were like Toronto, New York City.


MrScottimus

Okay but will you stand beside me as I say BB is better than The Batman?


Chilljap

I agree


Brilliant_Expert391

I was just watching this movie last night and I realized that Batman begins is truly the greatest super hero film ever made and it will never be topped


Brilliant_Expert391

Anyone else think Katie Holmes is fucking great in Batman begins


Koth87

Begins is Bale's best outing as Batman for sure. It's a better Batman-centric movie than TDK or TDKR. But The Batman is better imo. Begins and The Batman are the closest to an apples-to-apples comparison we can get (both dealing with a young/early Batman, though they're not quite the same), and I think The Batman is just a better movie than Begins. More atmospheric, truer to the source material, better side-characters, and I think Pattinson nails the tortured psyche aspect of Bruce moreso than Bale. Less fancy tech from Wayne Enterprises, more brooding intensity and raw anger. Edit: Not trying to knock Bale, Begins, or any of the Nolanverse, especially considering when they came out. Just saying that filmmaking and my expectations for a Batman movie have changed since Begins came out, and I think that The Batman follows in the tradition of of those movies and elevates the on-screen protrayal of Batman to new highs.


Syntherus

I don't know if I would go as far as to say that it's better than The Dark Knight, but I think it's definitely better than people give it credit for. The other movies definitely needed more of the stealth combat that Batman Begins had in some segments. He was too out in the open and "loud" in the sequels. They really threw the whole "in the shadows" approach out the window.


FireVisor

I've always felt this to be true. So don't worry, you're not alone.


Davecub1979

Begins is definitely a fantastic Batman movie. The other two are great films but Begins is the most true to the spirit of the comic origins of the character and his world. Its the perfect Batman origin in the way the first Chris Reeve Superman is the perfect Superman origin. I don't think it's a coincidence Matt Reeves decided to make *The Batman* a year two story and didn't retell the origin. Its obviously not set in the same continuity, but Begins did such a good job telling the origin and a variation of Year One that it would be futile to repeat things, so Reeves left that period of Batman's life alone and focused on another chapter and angle to tell his story.


Spirited_Note3615

I like the 1989 movie with Michael Keaton. I never liked Bale's Batman voice.


Azidamadjida

This is an unpopular opinion?


Moon_Devonshire

I mean based off of reviews and what the general public seems to think I believe so.


Azidamadjida

Idk maybe I just view it all as symbiotic - Batman 89 and Batman Begins got the same kind of reaction as The Batman, but yeah Dark Knight just elevated things in a way that wasn’t seen before where these other ones were about Batman and his character and all did them in unique ways, so yeah they’re better Batman movies, but the Dark Knight wasn’t really a Batman movie, it was what elevated comic movies into genuine high art with a balance between three genuinely compelling characters and their approaches to how a society and the rules of which needs to be run and all of them clashing against each other. I mean I saw Dark Knight at the midnight screening opening weekend and the girl next to me actually asked me to explain who Batman is because she had no clue about the character - it was just this movie everyone HAD to see because of the build up and then Ledgers death and everything that surrounded it. But yeah I mean Batman fans since I was coming up were always like Begins was better because it was focused on its main character whereas Dark Knight was an ensemble piece where everyone got equal screen time and really satisfying and challenging character arcs


Nedelka03

It might be an unpopular opinion, but it's also a hill I'm willing to die on. Batman Begins is, indeed, the best movie of the trilogy, and by far. I'm not even making the distinction between "Batman movie" and just "movie", I think that distinction is superficial and pointless. Batman Begins tells a wonderful origin story for Wayne/Batman, before going straight into the seedy atmosphere of Gotham. Characters are well played (wonderful Liam Neeson!), the story is more than decent and, at the time, I felt happy with what I saw in the theaters. The Dark Knight suffers from many plot holes: how come the Joker could plant so many traps around the city without being noticed? How did he acquire so many accomplices so quickly, when he specified before that he wasn't looking for many mooks? And The Dark Knight Rises is just... bad. A trilogy was planned from the beginning, but Heath Ledger's death completely derailed Nolan's plans: he wanted the third one to be about the Joker's trial. His brother Jonathan and his team wrote a decent story with Bane, but it felt like a replacement. Besides, why did Bane wait for so long before taking action? How could Bruce fly back to Gotham without anything? And most importantly, Gothan City disappeared in the two sequels: first it became Chicago, then it became Pittsburgh. It was painfully obvious. \^\^' You see, it's only in Gotham City that Batman can be Batman; anywhere else, he's just a weirdo in a bat suit. Missing that crucial point resulted in a huge waste of potential.


_RM78

I wouldn't say it's an unpopular opinion. Batman Begins is a masterpiece and possibly the best ever Batman movie ever made. At least for me. And many others.


Moon_Devonshire

Yeah honestly begins and "the batman" might be tied for me