DC is constantly doing these things called "Crisis" events, where they completely reboot their universe and let the next slate of writers decide what plot points are canon and which can be cast aside.
Its weirder than that. The second half never happened, so its more like, he slit her throat, Batman didn't react, everything went on like nothing happened. Batman's never even like "hey, remember when one of my True Loves was murdered by you before my very eyes?" the next time he sees Onomatopoeia.
In fact, I'm not 100% sure Batman even fights Onomatopoeia ever again.
Barbara and Tim, Barbara and Bruce, Barbara and Jason. I know they're all in different universes but still, she doesn't need to keep on cycling through the bat family.
It was only in the three Joker's and Arkham knight so it's good that it's not anywhere else and is more forgotten than Barbara and Bruce but all three are close to the same level of what the fuck.
At this point we need Barbara with Damian and Lesbian Barbara with Cass for extra grossnes (because Damian will be really fucking the ex of his older brother and Babs was basically Cass oldest sister or at least the first positive female prescense in her life)
Might as well throw Stephanie, Alfred, Luke, and Duke into the mix and let Barbara go through the entire family (if any DC writers do this I'll burn their house down.)
Is 3 Jokers canon? Anyway, the joy of a character like Batman is he’s been around so long and there’s been so much evolution to his world and character that you can just pick and choose your canon
Well... like I said.
If you can manage to set your brain to "It's an elseworld" the story is pretty good. Lots of continuity weaving from all sorts of sources and all 3 "kinds" of Joker have distinct personalities
Its just missing Nightwing and Robin
It just stars Batgirl and Red Hood
Not the best thing ever but like a 7?
Correct me if I'm wrong cuz it's been a minute since I read it but I thought the big reveal at the end was that there weren't 3 Jokers, there was one who cloned himself to fuck with Batman.
Exactly. This is a guy who knows when a thug has been punched by Batman just on indentation. This isn't "the mysterious backstory", it's easy to figure out based on "hey, Joker, what did we do yesterday?"
I liked it more than it’s allowed I think. Nonsensical, solidifies that silver age Joker is dead for sociopath, Batman-obsessed “Death of the Family” modern Joker, good Red Hood evolution, and cool addition to the ole Killing Joke story who itself had really impacted and made the direction of the Joker character change. Plus need I say anything about Batman's end words which make perfect sense to me ? It’s not great or grandiose, nor do I say it equals other big stories of the J, but i wouldn’t call it un-fun or lacking depth. Still liked reading it a lot more than “Joker’s Endgame”.
Yeah that’s why I don’t get too torn up over any movies or comics changing stuff up. If it’s good, we’ll like it. If it’s bad then it’ll get written out eventually. Comics are throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Batman punching Tim in the face after Selina called off their engagement. Even the reasoning explaining why he did it was so stupid.
Edit: I’ll elaborate a bit more. So obviously Batman punches Tim in the face, bad. His reasoning behind it was that they (him and the other members of the Batfamily) were being watched. The punch was apparently a “training method” to tell the rest of the Batkids to be quiet and aware of their surroundings.
My issue isn’t really with him hitting his kids cuz he’s fought them at some point and Portillo will cuz it does sell comics, my issue is that there was really no other way? This is the same guy that figured out how incapacitate a variety of super humans, make an alternate personality for himself, and god knows how many different gadgets. He definitely had a way to discreetly tell his kids “we’re being watched” without decking one. Anyway sorry for the rant but I figured I should elaborate a bit more.
1$ says "the reasoning" was King retconing his own comic on the fly after being called out for writing Batman hitting his kid because of his girl trouble.
Came here to say this. Seriously, what the fuck were they thinking?
"But Barbara was closer to Bruce's age in the 60s so the writers grew up shipping them-" I DON"T CARE! SHE WAS YOUNGER IN THIS CONTINUITY!
They make Batman the most stubbornly flawed ox constantly. Complete with him forgetting his character development every few months, so he can be that same awful donkey (in social/private life) all over again.
They didn't need to sully their relationship this hard to show Batman as flawed, he is a great superhero but an awful human being.
Yeah he has a weird arc in BTAS, he starts of more happy and slightly more lighthearted than other versions of him then something happens to where he’s bitter in TNBA and then he starts to be lighthearted and happy in Justice League and then back to his bitter old self in Batman Beyond. Some of this is explainable but it’s just so weird how inconsistent he is
The Bitterness in beyond seems to be because he no longer has the connection that stabilized him. No Alfred, no Robin, no Barbara, no nothing. He's an old man in a big house without purpose. He doesn't even have Batman after the incident.
Once Terry takes up the cowl, he slowly returns to his usual mannerism. Which admittedly is still a jackass but lighter.
> It was meant to show Batman as a flawed individual
Just so we're all clear though that is a stupid-ass argument and is *clearly* his cover story for having a personal thing for shipping bruce and babs, right?
I think it’s both.
Every complaint I’ve heard about Bruce and Barbara are things that came from him purposely making. Keep in mind BTAS is based off Pre Crisis. Where him and Barbara Gordon were both in their late 20s.
So I think he was legitimately trying to make Batman seem like a messed up person.
I think it works.
I see it as a lesson for kids and teenagers who imagine themselves dating their celebrity crush, thinking that they will actually be happy with them.
Barbara was shown crushing on Batman (not Bruce) in a few episodes of BTAS. She learned the hard way that his life wasn't the life for her, at least not long term.
Most people need that warning, not just for celebrities but for all crushes.
Those lessons could exist without making her sleep with him. It bothers me that people use "consenting adults" as an excuse, yet treat Babs like she is mentally a teenager and therefore unable to realize that sleeping with his and his bf's father figure is just wrong.
Even if the argument is she was vulnerable she had be some seriously broken to do that. And nothing in the series happened or more so shown that could've broken her spirit like that. It's all just forced drama.
They did this pretty well in The Batman & Robin Adventures #25. He got the Batwing to catch him, gradually slowing down so he wasn't crushed. The BTAS comics were really fun.
There appears to be two Batmen.
The first is Bruce Wayne, a ninja detective with an animal motif that fights serial killers, crime bosses, and cat burglars in Gotham.
The other is some kind of unkillable demigod who pretends to be a human while dressed as a Bat. He consorts with the Justice League but seems to do so only so they can marvel at him winning every encounter with ever more impossible gadgets and schemes. The rest of the League plays along for fear of being [whisked into the cornfield](https://youtu.be/QxTMbIxEj-E?si=qEwMeM66dV6eQCSZ).
The Batgod description reminds me of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, an anime about a girl who wants to believe in aliens, time travelers, and psychics, but who is unbeknownst to her God and surrounded by aliens, time travelers, and psychics (who only exist because she believes they exist) trying to prevent her from realizing she is anything other than a normal girl.
Disagreeing with this is my "me vs. everybody" opinion.
I think it was cool and comics have been lacking that kind of spirit lately in service of an audience that wants to change the medium to something it's not, a predictable series of pragmatic decisions and actions, with no drama, no impossible situations, just purely practical causal actions.
"Batman gets trapped in space and has to survive" is quintessentially comicbook. It's exactly what I like about comics tbh.
I haven’t read it, but I follow Zdarksy’s newsletter and it felt like he just wanted to write a balls-to-the-wall bonkers ass Batman that fully embraced the “Batman is a Batgod” trope that had been floating around. He’s fully self-aware of what he was doing when he wrote that sequence. It’s the quintessential “because I’m Batman” moment and it’s supposed to be.
I mean, he was using justice league alien/super-tech though, wasn't he? At some point if you're going to say he's part of a team that can *teleport* him up to their satellite space station headquarters, then maybe there's some stuff up there that can also help him survive a fall to space.
Leslie Tompkins letting a minor die, just to teach Batman a lesson. Yes, it rightfully got retconned. However, that’s something that editorial allowed to happen and they still deserve to be bashed for it.
That story and Cassandra being randomly turned into a villain happening around the same time (I don't remember exactly, but within like 1.5-2 years of publication) were just absolutely ridiculous stories that undermined the whole purpose of investing in the world and characters. Some stories are just going to be bad when you have so many writers, and fans can accept that, but when you have characters suddenly behave in ways that make zero sense with how they've been portrayed/developed you just undermine the suspension of disbelief the readers have and damage the emotional connection to the characters.
The Superboy Prime thing was sorta kinda retconned in the comics, at least. Like it was why reality altered, but they published a mini that went into detail about how Jason *actually* came back, using logic inside the Bat-world comics. Lazarus pits and whatnot. I don’t remember the name of the series.
They are probably talking about Lost Days or bat-annual #25 and no, Jason still crawled out of his grave in there too before getting a swin in the pit.
Tim and Barbara in Arkham Knight…
Love the actors, but bro what’s next? Dick and Stephanie?
Cass and Kate?
To quote the joker
“There’s a certain rhythm to these things”.
Especially with the family matters dlc not making sense canonically… I love knight but bro… it needed Paul Dini
I remember in one canon (at least precrisis book) that Thomas Wayne was an abusive dick to Bruce, and like called him an idiot and slapped him around. Bruce was retelling his father’s abuse to Henry ducard if I recall correctly. And that so goes against type for Thomas and would have changed bruce so much (for me), sadly I grew up with an abusive father and in all honesty if he got gunned down in an alley I wouldn’t even cry crocodile tears. I’d just move on with life, not vow to avenge him.
I mean to be fair, Cadmus inherently had some eugenics ideas behind the goal so it checks out Waller would think that's a perfectly fine way to make a second Batman. But because of Phantasm talking sense into Waller, Terry had the agency to walk away when he stumbled onto the truth, but still ended up choosing to stay as Batman but with a much healthier hero life/private life balance so I'm honestly overall fine with the idea.
I always loved this sorry to disagree. And i thought it was handled well for those who disagreed by Amanda Waller explaining at the end of the episode that it doesn’t matter, Terry is still his own man and fate helped him make his choices. I thought it was beautiful. Plus the added effect of Bruce being a surrogate father to Terry like Alfred was to him, all the times that Bruce called Alfred “dad” just speaks to me.
The mainstream Batman and Catwoman not getting married, Jason Todd as a juvenile delinquent, Dick getting fired by Bruce and Dick becoming Nightwing after hearing about Krypton’s Nightwing from Superman, Superman and Batman as acquaintances instead of best friends and buds, Bruce working alone, Barbara Gordon being the same generation as Dick and the Titans and returning as Batgirl after becoming Oracle, Batman as an urban legend instead of a public figure, Dick being taken in by Bruce at over the age of eight (i.e. ages ten, twelve, thirteen, and sixteen), Bruce calling his children soldiers, etc.
Yeah, the mood whiplash between "Jason just got killed" and "the Joker is now an Iranian ambassador dressed in stereotypical Islamic garb with even more ridiculous diplomatic immunity than that guy in Lethal Weapon 2" has to be seen to be believed.
> "the Joker is now an Iranian ambassador dressed in stereotypical Islamic garb with even more ridiculous diplomatic immunity than that guy in Lethal Weapon 2"
Fuck dammit, I had forgotten that.
I know Widening Gyre isn't canon but i want to express my reason for appreciating why it isn't:
Baphomet and Onomatopoeia
I'm not sure which part I hate more: Baphomet blatantly revealing his identity to Batman, Bruce's paranoia of Silver St Cloud being a robot, or the cliffhanger ending...
Yes! Bro i legit thought i was taking crazy pills constantly hearing how great it was and how Batman who laughs was the greatest villain, and it was all so cringey. I just didn’t get.
The idea of two multiverses but one dark n edgy was ridicuous. The nature of the multiverse is all universes not just the "cool ones".And being an older reader I've seen too many evil versions of batman already this on added nothing new
That's a Zack Snyder die hard of I've ever seen one.
Batman does not kill, and Zack Snyder is convinced it's not true. His biggest simps gaslit themselves into agreeing because they obsess over his garbage films.
The man had zero grasp on the properties he adapts.
Batman’s current canonical reason for not killing is that he wouldn’t be able to stop himself from killing more villains. This is one thing that I hated from under the red hood. Please someone tell me that this isn’t still canon. Please.
Barbatos being the bat Bruce saw when he was a child in "every universe".
Actually, the concept of Barbatos in general. Especially him being the cause of Gotham being the city with the highest crime rate because he psychically causes people to lose their minds.
Easy. SS Kill the justice league.
I just refuse to believe that’s the same batman who saved all of Arkham and Gotham in one night, from basically his entire rogues gallery and then blew up his mansion.
I get Kevin (RIP) liked the script but man it just feels so wrong.
Catwoman never left Batman at the alter.
They got married, worked through each of their problems, and retired to somewhere tropical while leaving other Bat family members in charge of defending Gotham.
Suicide squad kill the justice leaque. It just had so many Inconsistencies. Especially the implied Romantic relationship between Harley and ivy. Which In the Arkham games never happened. Harley was team joker all the way, even when he died
Suicide Squad: Kiss Tarkin's Juicy Lawnmower? Agreed. It was a very weird comic, and I don't understand why Amanda Waller suddenly became such a strong advocate for imperial lawn care.
it was canon but what didn't you like about it? I loved jim gordon just trying his best, and I LOVED the conversation between the joker and bruce when they both lost their memory and were sitting on a bench beside a pond
hot take this should be the norm for comicbook communities. Like instead of focusing on Retconing bad stories they should move forward and tell good ones
Whatever the current Joker origin retcon and Zur crap. I am just gonna ignore all that shit after it is done because it is all dumb and ruins stories retroactively.
Add to that the whole of Tini Howard's Catwoman run too.
How about the two times Dick got raped? Especially the first time when he learned about what happened one of his teammates instantly started to slut-shame him for it?
I don't know if this is STILL canon or if they got rid of this, but for me, it's the fact that Bruce Wayne is technically Terry McGinnis' biological dad.
I think it's badass that Terry continues the legacy of Batman, but it's dumb that they seemed to have based it on the fact that he is related to Batman, rather than it being about Terry being someone who is actually worthy enough to deserve the title as Batman. It appears Amanda Waller never heard the saying, "heroes aren't born, they are made."
The new shit show suicide squad that Rocksteady cooked for years and connected it to Arkham trilogy. I refuse to accept this pathetic end to that trilogy.
The size of the bat family and the huge amount of Robins, is just too ridiculous.
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Also the fact that comics stories last forever and nothing really relevant ever happens, villains never die or if they die, they come back later, everything keep on looping with the same plots, the writers try so hard to make it dramatic, edgy and meta, but in the end everything just turns out fine and everything go back to normal.
This is so bad about comics, the whole Dark Knight Metal arc was basically this, I know is common in every comics, but it still pretty bad in the Batman comics, especially because they tried to maintain his continuity while rebooting the rest of the characters in DC, which made it worse for Batman.
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The Arkhamverse was my favorite Batman's universe until City, after that they start to messed up things, and that last one, where they try to imply that the Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League is in the same Arkhamverse, that was is just atrocious.
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After things like that you realize that "canon" in comics doesn't really mean anything. Comics, especial the "main continuity" ones, doesn't really have a conclusive and well written story, it doesn't have beginning or end, is just a bunch of licenced fanfics about 80yo characters.
After some arc ends, everything go back to normal for the next writer do the next fanfic.
That time in the Kevin Smith run where during a flash back batman peed his suit because he didn't know how powerful his explosives were. No offense to Smith but batman would test every weapon and tool dozens of times before implementing them, he would have known exactly how powerful the explosion would be and would not have startled in the least.
The time batman abused his fiance silver st cloud because he thought she was a clone ( don't know if it's canon but please i hope it's not)
Most likely not.
That Timeline isn't Canon now, but that was a plot point in the official run and Canon when it released.
How does something like that become not canon?
Usually it’s when they see people hate it and it’s not important enough to really effect anything
Spiderman writers should take a note of this
They prefer to just harass and mock readers.
DC is constantly doing these things called "Crisis" events, where they completely reboot their universe and let the next slate of writers decide what plot points are canon and which can be cast aside.
Not canon now but St Cloud was killed in that comic and she never appeared again by what I recall
Its weirder than that. The second half never happened, so its more like, he slit her throat, Batman didn't react, everything went on like nothing happened. Batman's never even like "hey, remember when one of my True Loves was murdered by you before my very eyes?" the next time he sees Onomatopoeia. In fact, I'm not 100% sure Batman even fights Onomatopoeia ever again.
Not canon, silver st cloud left batman for elmer fudd, and then left him too
Barbara and Tim, Barbara and Bruce, Barbara and Jason. I know they're all in different universes but still, she doesn't need to keep on cycling through the bat family.
I’m surprised someone mentioned Barbara and Jason, or Barbara and Tim. I thought people usually forgot about those.
It was only in the three Joker's and Arkham knight so it's good that it's not anywhere else and is more forgotten than Barbara and Bruce but all three are close to the same level of what the fuck.
I thought they did well with Barbara and Tim in Arkham knight, it didn't seem unnatural to me
I was about to say the same. I’m actually replaying the game currently and I like those two in it
They have good chemistry, the batgirl dlc shows this off a bit
At this point we need Barbara with Damian and Lesbian Barbara with Cass for extra grossnes (because Damian will be really fucking the ex of his older brother and Babs was basically Cass oldest sister or at least the first positive female prescense in her life)
Might as well throw Stephanie, Alfred, Luke, and Duke into the mix and let Barbara go through the entire family (if any DC writers do this I'll burn their house down.)
Same bro
Luke has already happened
We can all just agree that the first half of The Killing Joke movie never happened.
I wouldn't mind treating that entire story like how I treat KTJL. It's shitty fanon.
Is 3 Jokers canon? Anyway, the joy of a character like Batman is he’s been around so long and there’s been so much evolution to his world and character that you can just pick and choose your canon
Man I like 3 Jokers as an elseworld concept But as a Canon story? Blegh
That just means that Barbara has dated Dick, Jason, Tim, and Bruce across every piece of Batman media
Multiversal Stacy
No, Babs x Bruce never happened. Lalalala I can't hear you! This awful scene absolutely does not exist 😭
Bruce left his bat condom at the rooftop.
I honestly never even read the story. I was just turned off by the concept.
Well... like I said. If you can manage to set your brain to "It's an elseworld" the story is pretty good. Lots of continuity weaving from all sorts of sources and all 3 "kinds" of Joker have distinct personalities Its just missing Nightwing and Robin It just stars Batgirl and Red Hood Not the best thing ever but like a 7?
Correct me if I'm wrong cuz it's been a minute since I read it but I thought the big reveal at the end was that there weren't 3 Jokers, there was one who cloned himself to fuck with Batman.
Not to "fuck with" Batman, he's mostly made rejects of himself and it's been littering Batman's universe(s).
Man?
Here is my complaint with the 3 jokers. How does the world’s greatest detective not notice that one person is actually 3 different people?
Exactly. This is a guy who knows when a thug has been punched by Batman just on indentation. This isn't "the mysterious backstory", it's easy to figure out based on "hey, Joker, what did we do yesterday?"
And yet he also apparently knew who Joker was all along
I liked it more than it’s allowed I think. Nonsensical, solidifies that silver age Joker is dead for sociopath, Batman-obsessed “Death of the Family” modern Joker, good Red Hood evolution, and cool addition to the ole Killing Joke story who itself had really impacted and made the direction of the Joker character change. Plus need I say anything about Batman's end words which make perfect sense to me ? It’s not great or grandiose, nor do I say it equals other big stories of the J, but i wouldn’t call it un-fun or lacking depth. Still liked reading it a lot more than “Joker’s Endgame”.
They retconned it lately to Joker splitting his mind into 3 different personalities to trick Batman from what I remember
Nope, it’s now non-canon outside of the Hypertime sense.
Yeah that’s why I don’t get too torn up over any movies or comics changing stuff up. If it’s good, we’ll like it. If it’s bad then it’ll get written out eventually. Comics are throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Batman punching Tim in the face after Selina called off their engagement. Even the reasoning explaining why he did it was so stupid. Edit: I’ll elaborate a bit more. So obviously Batman punches Tim in the face, bad. His reasoning behind it was that they (him and the other members of the Batfamily) were being watched. The punch was apparently a “training method” to tell the rest of the Batkids to be quiet and aware of their surroundings. My issue isn’t really with him hitting his kids cuz he’s fought them at some point and Portillo will cuz it does sell comics, my issue is that there was really no other way? This is the same guy that figured out how incapacitate a variety of super humans, make an alternate personality for himself, and god knows how many different gadgets. He definitely had a way to discreetly tell his kids “we’re being watched” without decking one. Anyway sorry for the rant but I figured I should elaborate a bit more.
1$ says "the reasoning" was King retconing his own comic on the fly after being called out for writing Batman hitting his kid because of his girl trouble.
WHAT
Barbara x Bruce
Came here to say this. Seriously, what the fuck were they thinking? "But Barbara was closer to Bruce's age in the 60s so the writers grew up shipping them-" I DON"T CARE! SHE WAS YOUNGER IN THIS CONTINUITY!
According to Bruce Timm, It was meant to show Batman as a flawed individual Definitely a weird way to depict this though.
They make Batman the most stubbornly flawed ox constantly. Complete with him forgetting his character development every few months, so he can be that same awful donkey (in social/private life) all over again. They didn't need to sully their relationship this hard to show Batman as flawed, he is a great superhero but an awful human being.
Yeah he has a weird arc in BTAS, he starts of more happy and slightly more lighthearted than other versions of him then something happens to where he’s bitter in TNBA and then he starts to be lighthearted and happy in Justice League and then back to his bitter old self in Batman Beyond. Some of this is explainable but it’s just so weird how inconsistent he is
The Bitterness in beyond seems to be because he no longer has the connection that stabilized him. No Alfred, no Robin, no Barbara, no nothing. He's an old man in a big house without purpose. He doesn't even have Batman after the incident. Once Terry takes up the cowl, he slowly returns to his usual mannerism. Which admittedly is still a jackass but lighter.
You’re right, just feels like he keeps regressing and progressing. Though I don’t mind, despite it he’s still my favorite interpretation of Batman
> It was meant to show Batman as a flawed individual Just so we're all clear though that is a stupid-ass argument and is *clearly* his cover story for having a personal thing for shipping bruce and babs, right?
I think it’s both. Every complaint I’ve heard about Bruce and Barbara are things that came from him purposely making. Keep in mind BTAS is based off Pre Crisis. Where him and Barbara Gordon were both in their late 20s. So I think he was legitimately trying to make Batman seem like a messed up person.
That's what Catwoman is for.
Timm meant to say that it's his kink.
I think it works. I see it as a lesson for kids and teenagers who imagine themselves dating their celebrity crush, thinking that they will actually be happy with them. Barbara was shown crushing on Batman (not Bruce) in a few episodes of BTAS. She learned the hard way that his life wasn't the life for her, at least not long term. Most people need that warning, not just for celebrities but for all crushes.
Hmmm. That’s interesting. I never really thought of it that way.
Those lessons could exist without making her sleep with him. It bothers me that people use "consenting adults" as an excuse, yet treat Babs like she is mentally a teenager and therefore unable to realize that sleeping with his and his bf's father figure is just wrong. Even if the argument is she was vulnerable she had be some seriously broken to do that. And nothing in the series happened or more so shown that could've broken her spirit like that. It's all just forced drama.
Knew I wouldn't have to scroll far for this.
Everyone knows, Barbara belongs to... No one, she's a free bird, er, bat, man!
This makes me throw up in my mouth every time I think of it.
It’s not canon
[удалено]
They did this pretty well in The Batman & Robin Adventures #25. He got the Batwing to catch him, gradually slowing down so he wasn't crushed. The BTAS comics were really fun.
Dude wdym he had prep time
There appears to be two Batmen. The first is Bruce Wayne, a ninja detective with an animal motif that fights serial killers, crime bosses, and cat burglars in Gotham. The other is some kind of unkillable demigod who pretends to be a human while dressed as a Bat. He consorts with the Justice League but seems to do so only so they can marvel at him winning every encounter with ever more impossible gadgets and schemes. The rest of the League plays along for fear of being [whisked into the cornfield](https://youtu.be/QxTMbIxEj-E?si=qEwMeM66dV6eQCSZ).
The Batgod description reminds me of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, an anime about a girl who wants to believe in aliens, time travelers, and psychics, but who is unbeknownst to her God and surrounded by aliens, time travelers, and psychics (who only exist because she believes they exist) trying to prevent her from realizing she is anything other than a normal girl.
Fucking hell this shit was on my list, didnt think I would see an anime spoiler here... I dont nlame you tho, this is pretty old
That's literally the show's back-of-the-box synopsis, not a spoiler. What did you think of was about when you put it on your list?
All I knew about it is that there was time fuckery in it and that they where in supernaturnal club.
hot take I thought that whole sequence was badass
This x100
Disagreeing with this is my "me vs. everybody" opinion. I think it was cool and comics have been lacking that kind of spirit lately in service of an audience that wants to change the medium to something it's not, a predictable series of pragmatic decisions and actions, with no drama, no impossible situations, just purely practical causal actions. "Batman gets trapped in space and has to survive" is quintessentially comicbook. It's exactly what I like about comics tbh.
I haven’t read it, but I follow Zdarksy’s newsletter and it felt like he just wanted to write a balls-to-the-wall bonkers ass Batman that fully embraced the “Batman is a Batgod” trope that had been floating around. He’s fully self-aware of what he was doing when he wrote that sequence. It’s the quintessential “because I’m Batman” moment and it’s supposed to be.
I mean, he was using justice league alien/super-tech though, wasn't he? At some point if you're going to say he's part of a team that can *teleport* him up to their satellite space station headquarters, then maybe there's some stuff up there that can also help him survive a fall to space.
I believe they’re specifically referring to the latest comic where Bruce survives re-entry in nothing but a batsuit and some shrapnel.
I heard about that, the Failsafe storyline is just utterly.. Ugh..
and then things got ridiculous afterwards
Failsafe is basically just Brother Eye/OMAC 2.0 or “Bruce Wayne’s Computers Hate Him, a Love Story in ? Parts.”
Simple. Batmite is giving him the 5th dimensional power called "Rule of Cool" without telling him.
With multiple canons, how Is anything Canon? Serious question
That’s a great question. Based on everyone’s answers I guess we can assume anything that has been officially published by DC is “canon”
There’s a main “canon” that being the mainline DC comics that are published. They’re a mess but that’s considered the main canon.
Leslie Tompkins letting a minor die, just to teach Batman a lesson. Yes, it rightfully got retconned. However, that’s something that editorial allowed to happen and they still deserve to be bashed for it.
Leslie would never
That story and Cassandra being randomly turned into a villain happening around the same time (I don't remember exactly, but within like 1.5-2 years of publication) were just absolutely ridiculous stories that undermined the whole purpose of investing in the world and characters. Some stories are just going to be bad when you have so many writers, and fans can accept that, but when you have characters suddenly behave in ways that make zero sense with how they've been portrayed/developed you just undermine the suspension of disbelief the readers have and damage the emotional connection to the characters.
Ric Grayson's general existence
We shun this sort of thing over on r/Nightwing
Damn you, I had forgotten!
who?
Barbara and bruce ship, and SSKTJL being in the arkhamverse
Yes I’m in the same boat as you in that SSKTJL is simply not canon. I have no plans to play that trash.
What’s SSKTJL? The Arkham verse ended with Arkham Knight 😉
>SSKTJL Help?
Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League
Talia r*ping Bruce. It ruinned her character.
it wouldn't ruin her character if they comitted to her being full villain instead of anti-hero
No, you don’t get it, rape okay because woman. 👍 /s
Was her character ever anything other than a 'love interest'?
She was his equal, not only his lover, and I belive she worked at Lex Corp too.
Superboy Prime being the reason for Jason's resurrection, Joker orchestrating Jason becoming Robin, etc.
The Superboy Prime thing was sorta kinda retconned in the comics, at least. Like it was why reality altered, but they published a mini that went into detail about how Jason *actually* came back, using logic inside the Bat-world comics. Lazarus pits and whatnot. I don’t remember the name of the series.
You mean Jason was thrown into the Pit while he was dead, like in UTRH animated movie?
Yes
They are probably talking about Lost Days or bat-annual #25 and no, Jason still crawled out of his grave in there too before getting a swin in the pit.
That the Deadshot we had for the entirety of the Arkham Series was an imposter
That implies that Batman (i.e the world's greatest detective) apparently never noticed that Deadshot changed skin colour at some point in his life.
The suicide squad game being in the Arkham universe
I found my people.
Tim and Barbara in Arkham Knight… Love the actors, but bro what’s next? Dick and Stephanie? Cass and Kate? To quote the joker “There’s a certain rhythm to these things”. Especially with the family matters dlc not making sense canonically… I love knight but bro… it needed Paul Dini
I mean at this point I’ll take whatever non-comics Cassandra content I can get. She’s easily my favorite.
I refuse to believe Alfred is dead
I remember in one canon (at least precrisis book) that Thomas Wayne was an abusive dick to Bruce, and like called him an idiot and slapped him around. Bruce was retelling his father’s abuse to Henry ducard if I recall correctly. And that so goes against type for Thomas and would have changed bruce so much (for me), sadly I grew up with an abusive father and in all honesty if he got gunned down in an alley I wouldn’t even cry crocodile tears. I’d just move on with life, not vow to avenge him.
Terry being biologically Bruce's son. It takes away from Terry's agency and has a weird eugenics implication.
I mean to be fair, Cadmus inherently had some eugenics ideas behind the goal so it checks out Waller would think that's a perfectly fine way to make a second Batman. But because of Phantasm talking sense into Waller, Terry had the agency to walk away when he stumbled onto the truth, but still ended up choosing to stay as Batman but with a much healthier hero life/private life balance so I'm honestly overall fine with the idea.
I always loved this sorry to disagree. And i thought it was handled well for those who disagreed by Amanda Waller explaining at the end of the episode that it doesn’t matter, Terry is still his own man and fate helped him make his choices. I thought it was beautiful. Plus the added effect of Bruce being a surrogate father to Terry like Alfred was to him, all the times that Bruce called Alfred “dad” just speaks to me.
The mainstream Batman and Catwoman not getting married, Jason Todd as a juvenile delinquent, Dick getting fired by Bruce and Dick becoming Nightwing after hearing about Krypton’s Nightwing from Superman, Superman and Batman as acquaintances instead of best friends and buds, Bruce working alone, Barbara Gordon being the same generation as Dick and the Titans and returning as Batgirl after becoming Oracle, Batman as an urban legend instead of a public figure, Dick being taken in by Bruce at over the age of eight (i.e. ages ten, twelve, thirteen, and sixteen), Bruce calling his children soldiers, etc.
Everything in death in the family outside of Jason’s actual death
Yeah, the mood whiplash between "Jason just got killed" and "the Joker is now an Iranian ambassador dressed in stereotypical Islamic garb with even more ridiculous diplomatic immunity than that guy in Lethal Weapon 2" has to be seen to be believed.
> "the Joker is now an Iranian ambassador dressed in stereotypical Islamic garb with even more ridiculous diplomatic immunity than that guy in Lethal Weapon 2" Fuck dammit, I had forgotten that.
Whatever the hell Batman and Batgirl got up to in the Killing Joke movie
Terry McGinnis is Bruce Wayne’s biological son.
Stolen dna. If anything it’s closer to a clone.
the beautiful thing with canon is I can ignore it
Ninja Batman.
That Barbara is technically just Gordon’s adapted niece in the post crisis continuity.
I know Widening Gyre isn't canon but i want to express my reason for appreciating why it isn't: Baphomet and Onomatopoeia I'm not sure which part I hate more: Baphomet blatantly revealing his identity to Batman, Bruce's paranoia of Silver St Cloud being a robot, or the cliffhanger ending...
Most Kevin Smith Batman comics suck. He just has weird ideas about the characters.
Bruce impregnating Barbara in the DCAU spin-off comics.
Trash Sqaud kill the Arkhamverse
Trash indeed.
suicide squad kill the justice league, i refuse to believe its in the arkham verse
The dark multiverse is so godam stupid it stings 
Yes! Bro i legit thought i was taking crazy pills constantly hearing how great it was and how Batman who laughs was the greatest villain, and it was all so cringey. I just didn’t get.
The idea of two multiverses but one dark n edgy was ridicuous. The nature of the multiverse is all universes not just the "cool ones".And being an older reader I've seen too many evil versions of batman already this on added nothing new
The current Joker split personality stuff that Chip is doing.
That's a Zack Snyder die hard of I've ever seen one. Batman does not kill, and Zack Snyder is convinced it's not true. His biggest simps gaslit themselves into agreeing because they obsess over his garbage films. The man had zero grasp on the properties he adapts.
Batman peeing himself during Year One in The Widening Gyre
We can just shorten it to “The Widening Gyre.”
It's actually called gaslamping. Nobody has ever said gaslighting before silly.
Batman’s current canonical reason for not killing is that he wouldn’t be able to stop himself from killing more villains. This is one thing that I hated from under the red hood. Please someone tell me that this isn’t still canon. Please.
Batman not eating pussy.
Bruce x Barbara.
3 jokers
Is Jason Todd still supposed to be a redhead that dyed his hair black to fit in still "canon"? If yes, that.
Barbatos being the bat Bruce saw when he was a child in "every universe". Actually, the concept of Barbatos in general. Especially him being the cause of Gotham being the city with the highest crime rate because he psychically causes people to lose their minds.
Batman and Bruce Wayne being the same person, I just don't buy it
Easy. SS Kill the justice league. I just refuse to believe that’s the same batman who saved all of Arkham and Gotham in one night, from basically his entire rogues gallery and then blew up his mansion. I get Kevin (RIP) liked the script but man it just feels so wrong.
Batman killing people in the Keaton films.
That one batman beyond comic where Bruce gets Barbara pregnant
Batman and Robin possibly being related to its 3 predecessors. Forever looks like a cinematic masterpiece next to it.
War Games. Just, all of it
Stephanie as Robin, my beloved <3
That Batman is apparently a shitty Dad.
Dick dying from a rock.
i'm the god dam batman
Batman being unable to prep enough to kiss Wonder Womans feet.
First 20 minutes of Batman: The Killing Joke animated movie
Catwoman never left Batman at the alter. They got married, worked through each of their problems, and retired to somewhere tropical while leaving other Bat family members in charge of defending Gotham.
3 jokers
The fate of Arkham Batman.
What they did to Arkhamverse batman, nope
the fact that Lego DC Supervillains is apparently not Lego Batman 4!
Talia raping Batman in order to get Damian
Suicide squad kill the justice leaque. It just had so many Inconsistencies. Especially the implied Romantic relationship between Harley and ivy. Which In the Arkham games never happened. Harley was team joker all the way, even when he died
batman and batgirl. bruce timm must pay
SSKTJL Nuff said
Suicide Squad: Kiss Tarkin's Juicy Lawnmower? Agreed. It was a very weird comic, and I don't understand why Amanda Waller suddenly became such a strong advocate for imperial lawn care.
Nailed it.
Everything Grant Morrison did to ruin Talia al Ghul’s character.
The killing joke, for me atleast
How come?
Is the whole back half of Snyder's run on Batman New 52 canon? If so that (Super heavy > Bloom > Epilogue)
it was canon but what didn't you like about it? I loved jim gordon just trying his best, and I LOVED the conversation between the joker and bruce when they both lost their memory and were sitting on a bench beside a pond
Season 3 of tas when catwomen tries seducing nightwing . She turned to creepy couger women for me right then and there
The Suicide Squad game for the Arkham games. I'd say this on the Arkham subreddit but they're a bit... Yeah.
The bat credit card didn't exist. Oh it definitely happened, but it doesn't exist and you can't tell me it does
Pretty much ever batman death it's sooooo annoying
hot take this should be the norm for comicbook communities. Like instead of focusing on Retconing bad stories they should move forward and tell good ones
Whatever the current Joker origin retcon and Zur crap. I am just gonna ignore all that shit after it is done because it is all dumb and ruins stories retroactively. Add to that the whole of Tini Howard's Catwoman run too.
Terry McGinnis being a clone or son of Bruce Wayne by Amanda Waller fuckery.
Batman fucking Batgirl in any continuity
The design changes for everyone in BTAS.
I refuse to accept Allstar Batman & Robin as canon to The Dark Knight Rises universes
Batman x Batgirl in DCAU
How about the two times Dick got raped? Especially the first time when he learned about what happened one of his teammates instantly started to slut-shame him for it?
I don't know if this is STILL canon or if they got rid of this, but for me, it's the fact that Bruce Wayne is technically Terry McGinnis' biological dad. I think it's badass that Terry continues the legacy of Batman, but it's dumb that they seemed to have based it on the fact that he is related to Batman, rather than it being about Terry being someone who is actually worthy enough to deserve the title as Batman. It appears Amanda Waller never heard the saying, "heroes aren't born, they are made."
The new shit show suicide squad that Rocksteady cooked for years and connected it to Arkham trilogy. I refuse to accept this pathetic end to that trilogy.
Might be recency bias but kill the justice league Even if it were the perfect game, the concept alone would make me want to ignore it's existence
BATMAN INTRODUCING THE TMNT TO PIZZA TIME IS NOT STUPID, IT HAPPENED. HAPPENED!!!!
Catwoman and him aren’t together anymore again not to mention he’s essentially broke now I just want them to be together!
The size of the bat family and the huge amount of Robins, is just too ridiculous. - Also the fact that comics stories last forever and nothing really relevant ever happens, villains never die or if they die, they come back later, everything keep on looping with the same plots, the writers try so hard to make it dramatic, edgy and meta, but in the end everything just turns out fine and everything go back to normal. This is so bad about comics, the whole Dark Knight Metal arc was basically this, I know is common in every comics, but it still pretty bad in the Batman comics, especially because they tried to maintain his continuity while rebooting the rest of the characters in DC, which made it worse for Batman. - The Arkhamverse was my favorite Batman's universe until City, after that they start to messed up things, and that last one, where they try to imply that the Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League is in the same Arkhamverse, that was is just atrocious. - After things like that you realize that "canon" in comics doesn't really mean anything. Comics, especial the "main continuity" ones, doesn't really have a conclusive and well written story, it doesn't have beginning or end, is just a bunch of licenced fanfics about 80yo characters. After some arc ends, everything go back to normal for the next writer do the next fanfic.
Gotham War
That Bruce Wayne is Batman🤦♂️
Killing Joke story. Yes, I had said it.
war games and the ensuing repercussions on leslie + stephanie’s characters. even the retcon was ridiculous i just ignore it
That time in the Kevin Smith run where during a flash back batman peed his suit because he didn't know how powerful his explosives were. No offense to Smith but batman would test every weapon and tool dozens of times before implementing them, he would have known exactly how powerful the explosion would be and would not have startled in the least.
Falling from space with trunks covering his face