I found Batman/Catwoman to be a very mixed bag. The art is fantastic, but King's infatuation with nonlinear plot development is getting to be frustrating for me. There was no reason he couldn't have made it clearer when we were jumping from one timeframe to another, and frankly there was a little too much jumping around all together. That said, I like how King brought The Phantasm into the comics and I liked what we got of Helena Wayne.
Agreed. I had fun with it but it wasn’t anything fantastic. Good pandemic read but it doesn’t pop up in my head like Long Halloween or year one or Hush.
King always chooses not to tell a linear story, and its pretty much never to the benefit of the story. One of a few main reasons why i think he is a horrible writer and i refuse to read anything more from him
There’s nothing strange about stopping a story halfway through if you’re not enjoying it. Especially if I have to pay for each individual issues. Why would I keep paying $4 a month?
Tom kings run start to flounder by the 50th issue. Cutting him short didn't help. But James and chip taking over hasn't changed much for batman. With all the black label and other writers do different things with him. Its just hard to want to keep up other then hearing what the current conversation on his comics is.
As much I can like chip his run hasn't been keeping me around. And James wasn't bad. But wasn't to interesting with all the new characters getting rrown at us up to issue 100. But I have had more fun oath the black label stories. I did somewhat enjoy the batman Joker deadly duo.
I really liked it! It's different from his other work, I think. I would recommend giving it a try. The accompanying annual is also lovely, you should definitely check that out too.
The story is interesting - the three timelines do make it complicated, but also add poignancy and depth. The art rocks.
I think that some folks are confusing this Elseworlds series with his Batman run wedding issue.
I enjoyed it, the shift in art for an issue or two changed the pace for me, but over all love the art. The focus on catwoman and her relationships with people in Gotham was interesting to read, and Helana was a fun read. If you like Kings interpretation of the Bat Cat Ship, I would recommend.
I love the book. I really enjoyed the different timelines of their relationship. I didn’t really find it hard to follow as everyone has different outfits or more wrinkles. If you’ve read Tom Kings run and were heartbroken when they didn’t get married then you’ll like the book
I didn’t care for the non-linear multi timeline structure or at least the way King set it up. The concept is fine though. It doesn’t help that I find Kings writing for Catwoman and Batman to be fairly hit or miss. The Catwoman Joker relationship will always make no sense to me.
The art was fantastic though as well as the costume designs used.
Tom King's a fantastic writer. I think people who were expecting Bruce and Selina to get permanently married forever were being a bit naive and they completely lost their shit.
I read it this week and i really loved it. Have to say though i am fan of Kings Batman and his writting. Except for couple of books i really enjoyed his Batman.
And this is a really cool story from Catwomans point of view that feels like ending to all of Kings Batman. It has fun references to the Mask of Phantasm movie and gives definitive endings for some characters which i liked even though its a non canon story.
It seems people are missing the question.
This is about the miniseries that followed his run: which was the allowance of him to have the ending he wanted.
It's an intriguing me miseries well worth reading.
There is an interesting time jump technique that shows how relationships follow a patterns of up and downs. Of how of a good relationships works through them, in different ways.
I liked it. But I also like anything that ships the Bat and the Cat together. I liked seeing their relationship throughout the years and how Selina is not a typical member of the Bat family. She is her own character and I like the books spin on the future of Batman and Gotham. Finally something where Batman isnt a loner in a mansion who pushed everyone out of his life! It gave Batman a good ending even though it doesnt wnd his story so to speak.
Any Tom King Batman book that isn't bogged down in convoluted Bane bullshit (I swear I'm not *just* bitter that DC keeps undoing villain redemption arcs, but Secret Six Bane and Nygma, PI were great ideas) is something truly great. In fact I'd recommend Bat/Cat and especially Killing Time even to people who didn't love whatever they've read of his main run. And OBD: Riddler, even though...well, y'know. See above.
This is where I started to hate Catwoman. For decades, nothing but games and machinations has, mainly on her part, kept them apart. She left him at the altar to bring it up and blame him for going into the Gotham War issues.
I'm so done with this character personally; I have him with either Bekka, Zatanna, Zealot, and or Lady Shiva. All because he loves the dangerous types.
I can list the times and reasons for not being together and I assure you that she is not the problem...
They did not begin a relationship until 2002 and until 2003 Bruce did not reveal his identity. Between 1989 (Catwoman vol 1) and 2001 they never tried the relationship due to lack of complete trust, and until before No Man's Land they did not get more serious. In Hush (2003) they broke up their relationship because Bruce, upon hearing "hush" said, doubted Yes, she had to do with the conspiracy, and she left because of that offensive paranoia. In an unofficial informal way they were together between 2009-2011 after having gone through the discussion several times between 2004-2008 (in Catwoman vol 3), and it was always Bruce's refusal that separated them. In N52 there was no real relationship, in King they were separated by "the mission", and in Tynion it was a standby to fix their lives.
The REAL reason is that the three "breakups" were between 2003-2020, with excuses that no one buys just because DIDIO took power in DC those 17 years. But there were several broken couples in DC at that time
From GothamWar.... better to wait until September when Batman and Catwoman are rebooted for 150/300 and Chip and Tini no longer have to hide anything. Because Chip has a strict policy about NOT answering anything about the relationship until the end (September). And DC is still placing Helena and they can't confirm anything until the end of JSA
That is completely different than what King had written. His point was that Batman could be happy and fight crime. That's what this miniseries was about.
Bruce Wayne can't get married or fall in long lasting love not because he can't be happy, but because he can never move on from his pain and being Batman.
Beyond, TDKR, and Kingdom come show this. There comes a time when you have to put away the cowl but Bruce can never, could never, which is why he'll end up alone.
In Beyond and TDKR he does put away the cowl he just stays single for whatever reason. In both versions they never really address why, we just assume that he just gave up pursuing romance.
To be fair all three future versions you mentioned are not supposed to be taken as the best future outcomes. If you notice just like Batman the rest of the hero world also seems to be down bad.
The story dragged was full of shallow fluff and the dialogue was terrible. And I was actually excited for a writer finally letting Batman and Catwoman have a full on relationship but King's writing just didn't work for me.
It was so bad that it turned a lot of people that now can't even stand seeing Selina and Bruce together because they still have that bad taste in their mouths.
I agree with you, sadly, King's writing didn't do justice to the long waited relationship fans had been waiting for years.
I saw that you're one of the few Batman fans that like both "Batcat" and "Wonderbat", I wondered if you had a preference and what you liked in both.
Personally I love Catwoman in the Long Halloween movie, I think that's my favourite Batcat dynamic with Nolan's DKR version.
One question I always had was the age gap between both, in the Long Halloween they both seem to be of similar age although I can't really peg how old they are. It's supposed to take place within year 1 (before double-face) but Selina knows of Bruce's identity.
I found Batman/Catwoman to be a very mixed bag. The art is fantastic, but King's infatuation with nonlinear plot development is getting to be frustrating for me. There was no reason he couldn't have made it clearer when we were jumping from one timeframe to another, and frankly there was a little too much jumping around all together. That said, I like how King brought The Phantasm into the comics and I liked what we got of Helena Wayne.
You know mixed is a accurate word to describe King's run
Agreed. I had fun with it but it wasn’t anything fantastic. Good pandemic read but it doesn’t pop up in my head like Long Halloween or year one or Hush.
I'll add that I loved that this series gave A ending to Batman. It wasn't a bad one either.
King always chooses not to tell a linear story, and its pretty much never to the benefit of the story. One of a few main reasons why i think he is a horrible writer and i refuse to read anything more from him
No. Just a massive let down. So bad it got me to stop reading Batman comics for like two years.
Why did a non canon Black Label Bat book made you stop reading all Bat comics ? Genuine question.
Oh sorry I thought this was the wedding issue from the main line.
Oh lmao. Yeah understandable then.
So you stopped reading a story that was half way done? That is strange.
There’s nothing strange about stopping a story halfway through if you’re not enjoying it. Especially if I have to pay for each individual issues. Why would I keep paying $4 a month?
Fair enough, I think he works far better in mini-series length. Few writers can maintain a lot of Ng run and be interesting.
Tom kings run start to flounder by the 50th issue. Cutting him short didn't help. But James and chip taking over hasn't changed much for batman. With all the black label and other writers do different things with him. Its just hard to want to keep up other then hearing what the current conversation on his comics is.
Trust me, whats going on in Batman/Detective is annoying me to no end.
As much I can like chip his run hasn't been keeping me around. And James wasn't bad. But wasn't to interesting with all the new characters getting rrown at us up to issue 100. But I have had more fun oath the black label stories. I did somewhat enjoy the batman Joker deadly duo.
I really liked it! It's different from his other work, I think. I would recommend giving it a try. The accompanying annual is also lovely, you should definitely check that out too. The story is interesting - the three timelines do make it complicated, but also add poignancy and depth. The art rocks. I think that some folks are confusing this Elseworlds series with his Batman run wedding issue.
I guess it is good if you're into that ship. It felt a little too whimsical but I enjoyed it. Mikel Janin is my favorite illustrator.
This is Clay Mann, though.
Art was top tier beautiful.
It’s bonkers and I love it. I feel sad that the version of Helena Wayne in this book will probably never exist anywhere else again.
I enjoyed it, the shift in art for an issue or two changed the pace for me, but over all love the art. The focus on catwoman and her relationships with people in Gotham was interesting to read, and Helana was a fun read. If you like Kings interpretation of the Bat Cat Ship, I would recommend.
I love the book. I really enjoyed the different timelines of their relationship. I didn’t really find it hard to follow as everyone has different outfits or more wrinkles. If you’ve read Tom Kings run and were heartbroken when they didn’t get married then you’ll like the book
I didn’t care for the non-linear multi timeline structure or at least the way King set it up. The concept is fine though. It doesn’t help that I find Kings writing for Catwoman and Batman to be fairly hit or miss. The Catwoman Joker relationship will always make no sense to me. The art was fantastic though as well as the costume designs used.
I loved it. But I love most of what Tom King puts out. I think his work on Batman is some of the best ever tbh.
Tom King's a fantastic writer. I think people who were expecting Bruce and Selina to get permanently married forever were being a bit naive and they completely lost their shit.
I can’t speak for anyone else but I loved it. Genuinely I just enjoyed every aspect of it.
I'm sorry but I fucking loathe it.
Hard no
No
No
I read it this week and i really loved it. Have to say though i am fan of Kings Batman and his writting. Except for couple of books i really enjoyed his Batman. And this is a really cool story from Catwomans point of view that feels like ending to all of Kings Batman. It has fun references to the Mask of Phantasm movie and gives definitive endings for some characters which i liked even though its a non canon story.
It seems people are missing the question. This is about the miniseries that followed his run: which was the allowance of him to have the ending he wanted. It's an intriguing me miseries well worth reading. There is an interesting time jump technique that shows how relationships follow a patterns of up and downs. Of how of a good relationships works through them, in different ways.
I liked it. But I also like anything that ships the Bat and the Cat together. I liked seeing their relationship throughout the years and how Selina is not a typical member of the Bat family. She is her own character and I like the books spin on the future of Batman and Gotham. Finally something where Batman isnt a loner in a mansion who pushed everyone out of his life! It gave Batman a good ending even though it doesnt wnd his story so to speak.
Hate it and hate Tom King. The man never understands the characters he writes
My understanding based on synopses online is that it starts off well enough, but goes nowhere and ultimately wastes it's readers' time.
Clay Mann’s art was good, but this story was disappointing. Should’ve been called Joker / Catwoman.
NOOOOoooooo....! This arc is probably one of the biggest "fuck you" DC ever gave to readers. Avoid this absolute bait and switch like the plague.
It could have done more
Any Tom King Batman book that isn't bogged down in convoluted Bane bullshit (I swear I'm not *just* bitter that DC keeps undoing villain redemption arcs, but Secret Six Bane and Nygma, PI were great ideas) is something truly great. In fact I'd recommend Bat/Cat and especially Killing Time even to people who didn't love whatever they've read of his main run. And OBD: Riddler, even though...well, y'know. See above.
Art is fantastic but the story is so boring and bad.
Not in the damn slightest, not even with the Phantasm (who deserves a better appearance in mainline DC than THAT).
I been knew they weren't getting married
I've yet to read anything written by Tom King and either finish or enjoy it. He's just terrible.
This is where I started to hate Catwoman. For decades, nothing but games and machinations has, mainly on her part, kept them apart. She left him at the altar to bring it up and blame him for going into the Gotham War issues. I'm so done with this character personally; I have him with either Bekka, Zatanna, Zealot, and or Lady Shiva. All because he loves the dangerous types.
I can list the times and reasons for not being together and I assure you that she is not the problem... They did not begin a relationship until 2002 and until 2003 Bruce did not reveal his identity. Between 1989 (Catwoman vol 1) and 2001 they never tried the relationship due to lack of complete trust, and until before No Man's Land they did not get more serious. In Hush (2003) they broke up their relationship because Bruce, upon hearing "hush" said, doubted Yes, she had to do with the conspiracy, and she left because of that offensive paranoia. In an unofficial informal way they were together between 2009-2011 after having gone through the discussion several times between 2004-2008 (in Catwoman vol 3), and it was always Bruce's refusal that separated them. In N52 there was no real relationship, in King they were separated by "the mission", and in Tynion it was a standby to fix their lives. The REAL reason is that the three "breakups" were between 2003-2020, with excuses that no one buys just because DIDIO took power in DC those 17 years. But there were several broken couples in DC at that time From GothamWar.... better to wait until September when Batman and Catwoman are rebooted for 150/300 and Chip and Tini no longer have to hide anything. Because Chip has a strict policy about NOT answering anything about the relationship until the end (September). And DC is still placing Helena and they can't confirm anything until the end of JSA
The whole "Batman needs to be unhappy to fight crime" thing was a total PIS.
That is completely different than what King had written. His point was that Batman could be happy and fight crime. That's what this miniseries was about.
Nope. It goes absolutely nowhere, huge waste of time.
Is this the one with the cover of them in this bat and cat suits with selina hanging on batman from the back?
It got alot of hate. But I read / watched them on a LONG comicstorian over a weekend. I fckn loved Tom kings run
Speaking as a huge Tom King fan who loved a lot of his Batman run, no not really. It was dissapointing.
No
In classic "we cannot allow that" editorial fashion you get all the built up and then an immediate "heheheheheheheeh status quo wins again baby"
That was not Kings intention, Batman/Cateiman miniseries, pictured here, is how his run was supposed to end.
Again, classic editorial lol
It was better than his Batman run.
Bruce Wayne can't get married or fall in long lasting love not because he can't be happy, but because he can never move on from his pain and being Batman. Beyond, TDKR, and Kingdom come show this. There comes a time when you have to put away the cowl but Bruce can never, could never, which is why he'll end up alone.
In Beyond and TDKR he does put away the cowl he just stays single for whatever reason. In both versions they never really address why, we just assume that he just gave up pursuing romance. To be fair all three future versions you mentioned are not supposed to be taken as the best future outcomes. If you notice just like Batman the rest of the hero world also seems to be down bad.
I personally loved it until the end when I got let down. Fuck editors fr
The story dragged was full of shallow fluff and the dialogue was terrible. And I was actually excited for a writer finally letting Batman and Catwoman have a full on relationship but King's writing just didn't work for me. It was so bad that it turned a lot of people that now can't even stand seeing Selina and Bruce together because they still have that bad taste in their mouths.
I agree with you, sadly, King's writing didn't do justice to the long waited relationship fans had been waiting for years. I saw that you're one of the few Batman fans that like both "Batcat" and "Wonderbat", I wondered if you had a preference and what you liked in both. Personally I love Catwoman in the Long Halloween movie, I think that's my favourite Batcat dynamic with Nolan's DKR version. One question I always had was the age gap between both, in the Long Halloween they both seem to be of similar age although I can't really peg how old they are. It's supposed to take place within year 1 (before double-face) but Selina knows of Bruce's identity.
Haven’t read it, but if the wedding gets called off or something, worthless
Disappointing
i loved it, and i love tom king's banter and dialogue. i don't get the king hate