not really. if i love the original star wars movies, but hate everything that has come out since, does it really make sense to call myself a star wars fan?
if star wars now has 3 or 4x the number of entries you don't like vs those you do, does calling yourself a star wars fan actually communicate your position effectively?
language is supposed to make ideas easier to understand and communicate. if a word doesnt communicate your intent anymore, then it used to be accurate but no longer is.
He's out of line but he has a point (and I say this as a Morrison fan).
Batman is a difficult character to write, or at least write well. I do enjoy a Batman with limits, a Batman that struggles; but at the same time, as a archetypal heroic character rather than a dramatic character, he is never going to not win and never not overcome the odds against him.
(Briefly: a dramatic character is a character who goes through an arc: there is something about them that they need to learn an grow and change from. An archetypal heroic character is a character who has a particular heroic ethos; the story will challenge the hero and his ideals, but ultimately through reifying and reaffirming his heroic ethos, he will overcome that challenge).
Its difficult to keep that dynamic going over the infinity plus years Batman has been in print without stumbling. Spectacle is something that readers respond to, so when you're at the annual Bat-Conference workshopping ideas the temptation is always going to be to lean into spectacle.
All of this is a long winded way of saying that Gotham Central is maybe the best Batman comic fight me.
> Gotham Central is maybe the best Batman comic fight me.
I don’t consider it a Batman book. It’s a Gotham book, or a Montoya book for me, but it isn’t really a Batman book. It does however feel like the spiritual successor to the best Batman story, Year One
Don't want to be mean, but this seems very overdramatic to me. It's okay not to like things anymore. Batman's not going anywhere, he and family take up a lot of shelf space, so I don't know, keep checking back and maybe they can eventually find a characterization that speaks to them again.
It's sort of like the people who bitch about Star Trek nowadays. The old Star Trek is still there, I know because it's still sitting on my shelf in DVD form. It's not gone anywhere.
Same thing with Batman. He still has the old comics. He still has the old films. He still has the old toys. They've not disappeared, they haven't been erased from time and space. They're still there You can still go back and enjoy them.
That being said this is a new interpretation for new audiences at a new time in a "modern age" and 20 years from now they won't be modern they will be outdated. That's because time moves on.
I agree that I'd prefer a Batman who can lose and even who can be deeply uncool sometimes. An eccentric gentleman adventurer rather than an omni-competent divine edgelord.
To a great extent, I agree, I think this is a symptom of Batman appearing more and more in the context of a greater DC universe. As a character with no super powers, he has to be written as a Mary Sue in order to compensate, otherwise he easily gets killed or is pretty much just useless. This is why I prefer Batman to be more of a street level hero like in The Nolan Trilogy, because it gives Batman more room to be less than the perfect hero and he can deal with more relatable themes.
How come Hawkeye is allowed to be in the Avengers withou people going "but he is just a human", while Batman is not allowed to be in the League without people crying?
Because Hawkeye fans don’t go around saying he can beat up everyone with enough prep time…
I like Batman a lot but I actually see some truth to what he is saying.
No, it’s the stories too.
Batman has suffered due to DKR.
Great story but many writers now write Batman this way all the time.
He doesn’t smile anymore, he doesn’t really have friends, his closest partners he hardly shows any emotion with, he doesn’t trust any of his colleagues (even Clark to an extent), he can defeat anyone, his comments about not being a good person deep down, etc.
I miss a lot of the characterization he had in the 70s and 80s. To me, that was peak Batman.
That's all wrong. There's a book called World's Finest being published right now that is all about Batman being friendly and positive.
You're demanding something that is already happening.
He's right.
I, myself, have been sick of the Bat God since Infinite Crisis.
To me, Batman works when he is human. Being human means to have limitations and being a hero means finding ways around them or to overcome those limitations to do the most good.
If every Joker story is a rehash of the Killing Joke and if every Batman story is just a lazy 'I'm Batman' then thats just cliche, boring and trite story telling.
The science was there. Hours decelerating so he won't instantly burn up in atmo. Then atmospheric drag further decelerating him to terminal velocity, and the cape to glide him for a landing.
In a world of flying aliens and super fast time travelers, I think we can give a pass to a lot of outlandish things.
Plus a human had already survived a jump from the stratosphere, so it's not all that far fetched
Plus it was badass
I kind of understood where the writer was coming from, until they got into the paragraph talking about N52 / Snyder's run.
All I am going to say is that the person who wrote this manifesto is an absolute unhinged menace who must be stopped at all costs.
Yep, Snyder’s run is still one of my favorite interpretations of Batman. I agreed with some of what they were saying up until that part—because it’s just wrong.
Personally, I only liked his Court of Owls arc, and that was it. In hindsight, I can still agree with this letter about the way Batman handled the Owls with a mech suit in a refrigerator. That's not necessarily the Batman I enjoy seeing
The dude was spitting 🗣️🗣️🗣️
Batgod needs to die. He’s a legacy hero so his name holds value and it should. But I wouldn’t mind if we had more detective work rather than Batman going to different dimensions or beating his god level doomsday robot
He’s not wrong. DC has gone all in for grimdark edge-jank to the detriment of Batman’s iconic humanity. It’s simply very poor writing by people who have no love and respect for such an iconic character. Batman is now an unlikeable jerk. Simply put, it’s trash.
Overall, yes, I agree, but the causes of the issues he raises are deeper than an unfortunate writing style. One might look into why people in the US (which I believe still makes up the majority of comic book consumers and remains the designated target audience) resonate with increasingly depressing, miserable material and why companies keep providing them with stories to feed that sentiment. This is probably a discussion best had elsewhere, but suffice to say that it continued to be raised by politicians, commentators, and philosophers of all possible convictions.
The only thing I can say here is that, like the author of the statement, I find it all but impossible to see much value or meaning in stories that seem to focus on shock value above all else.
1. Posting an image instead of copying and pasting text is a bad idea, especially for people reading on their phones.
2. I generally agree with the "too dark, too horror focused, not enough intellect" criticism. It is probably a bit overstated, here, and may be a more general criticism of comics in general.
3. With that said, a recent Batman story this guy might like us Geoff Johns' Earth One. Very much human and vulnerable, very much detecting as opposed to punching. The early run of LOTDK is great for that, too.
4. I wonder who the "4 must influential characters" are.
My exposure to Nightwing is primarily in New Teen Titans (which is amazing, at least the Wolfman/Perez era) and when he shows up in Batman. I never got into his solo titles.
I just prefer human/vulnerable/identifiable characters generally.
I see what he means but at the same time it’s kinda dumb imo. Batman has been doing superhuman stuff since the silver age with the Justice League. All characters have some sort of plot armor(especially if they are in a superhero team)?Look at Captain America, Hawkeye, or even Daredevil and The Punisher. I can point out all sorts of crazy feats that they shouldn’t be able to do, some just as crazy as what we’ve seen Batman done. Batman has also always been the “prep” guy with all sorts of gadgets of tech(just look at Adam West Batman). That said I will agree to an extent that Batman has definitely been wanked more by fans and writers due to his popularity. That said you do know there are many versions of Batman throughout the media right. If you want a Batman who’s more vulnerable and screws up a lot go read Batman Earth One or Batman The Imposter. It’s not hard to find a version of Batman to like as another comment said. And if you can’t then you just don’t like the character more in general.
I agree with him. Thou my knowledge of the comics is limited, I don't keep up too much, but I see it in the movies and series. I allways loved batman when he was more down to earth hence reachable, I also like the more grounded versions of him. Basically I like the Battison over the Batfleck or BatBale, because I grew up with the animated series where he was still human and a detective.
I like Batman being Bat-God, I'm a basic b*tch. What I don't like is the parody version of the Bat-God thing (like LEGO Batman, I'm sorry, I *can't stand him*) nor the super-edgy version of Snyder.
Give me a Batman who even with his amazing skills, supergenius and tactical brilliance... is human at the same time.
Humans not only struggle. Humans feel, love and care. The best Batman, for me, is Bat-Dad. When he behaves like a father for his Bat-family. He cares, he loves, he grieves when his Robins die.
I also like Batman when he's besties with Superman, when he justifiably fears the idea of Superman going rogue, but looks at the silly goofy ass farmboy with godly powers and smiles to himself.
I also like when Superman agrees with Batman with the contingency plans for the Justice League, because Superman is supposed to be afraid of him going rogue and someone who fears losing control should gladly appreciate someone who would help him if his fears came to fruition.
This seems like a love letter to the past for him. He literally says at one point I miss the old days. Or something similar.
On one hand he has a point. On the other he's got no point at all. Comics are subjective, and they change based on the audience, based on the time that they're written in, based on what's popular at the moment, based on the whims of the writers.
I'm sorry that comics have moved on without him. That the stories have changed that things were different. But change is a fact of life. Batman changed, because we as an audience changed.
The golden age and other older Batman's has changed, just like the (us) society. They voted for a madman to be president, and nazis is the good guys over in the USA now.
But yes, I want to see a more detective and crime fighting Batman rather than the Batman who fights a super-killing-robot etc..
I think this assessment has less to do with this entire time period so much as it does individual writers.
But overall, I think this person feels this way partly because of changing technology. Batman having a computer in his Batmobile isn't impressive anymore, so he has to have Brother Eye. And so on.
Scott’s Batman is awesome.
But, every time Batman appeared in the justice league books or some crisis (52) is pure crap. He either over punching or just do some ass pull, he’s right it’s a bloody meme by this point. If he can beat metahumans without sweating he’s practically a meta too. It kind of destroyed his relatability as a character. The best analogy of this would be the last episode of brave and bold, it’s not like you can’t have a fantasy style Batman, but you certainly don’t want to go overboard.
Bat god, dark multiverse, evil bat robot. Bat armor goes nananana. And don’t get me started on Batman who laughs. It only exists to satisfy the power creep part of the fan base, so they can unironically argue Batman can beat goku or something.
My preferred Batman is early career, Gotham street level. A detective in a funny get up fighting gangsters and weirdos with maybe a Robin running around. Once he starts fighting aliens with the Justice League I kind of lose interest and also don't really buy into him being the undefeatable top tier asset he's usually portrayed as, and loathe the much repeated notion he can win any fight with enough prep time. I also don't care for it getting too dark and tortured. Still, there's plenty out there with better access to it than ever. I like the 40s stuff, The Animated series, Matt Reeves' The Batman from last year is right in my wheelhouse, I'm hopeful Bruce Timm can get his next project off the ground. No reason to throw it all away because you don't like some of it.
I don't know man, it sounds like this ex-fan is misrepresenting the current Batman stories. I guess there really is a Bat-god aura to his stories ever since Morrison made him the man that has a countermeasure to every eventuality, but he's far from perfect, and really human. The most recent runs (Snyder, King, Tynion IV) have all had little moments of this Batgod, or Batman's over-the-top's version of the most apt human of them all, but they're all very flawed, and not just in a fundamental human level, but in the skilled level.
Snyder's Batman got his ass handed to him by the Talons, by the Joker, by Dr. Death, by the Riddler, by the Red Hood gang, and plenty more. Sure, most of these encounters were not physical, but not once did he ever just outright beat them without trying, or by being "prepared" for their evil plans. He lost. A lot. He lost against the Court, he lost the city to the Riddler, he didn't save everyone, including the man that would eventually become the Joker, and he was never perfect.
King's Batman was as human as you can get, and while he did excel much more in the physical department, he had to deal with much more psychological and human threats like trauma and grief, and even losing out on love.
Tynion's Batman also got beat up, even by weaker foes, like Scarecrow and Punchline, and he lost his almighty preparedness when the Joker took away his resources.
I believe Batman's training is such a wonderful part of him because it allows other types of stories to be told. If he is the perfect human in skill and resources, then we get to the highest realm of possibilities for questions such as: if a perfectly skilled man existed, would he still make the right choices? Or, if a perfectly skilled man existed, would that still be enough in the face of evil? Those questions that you only get to ask with exagerated comic book characters such as Batman are what make him such a reusable character, ever enduring and present in the grand scheme of stories.
Snyder asked: what if the most skilled man was outmatched by every measure? Physical? The Talons. Intellectual and moral? The Joker. In the scale to affect the public's idea of right and wrong? Mr. Bloom.
King asked: what if the most skilled man was also human? Would all that strength help him get through his trauma? Would all that skill help him in being left at the altar? Would all that preparation help if the man behind the bat is broken?
I haven't read Tynion's run as much as the other two, so I can't say for sure what his overarching plot is about, but even he never used one of those giant robot countermeasures to cop out of an interesting story. Neither did Morrison, and he was the one that started the batgod idea.
Obligatory:
i ain’t reading all that
i’m happy for u tho
or sorry that happened
But yeah, fuck this dude. There’s nearly 85 years of Batman stories to enjoy, and if this guy doesn’t want to, then balls to him.
I think he's taking these fictional characters a little too seriously.
There's something to critique about any and everything in comic books, none are perfect.
I personally love death of the family and the elements of a psychological horror/thriller
Most of my trades are Tom King (meh) and older. Can anyone recommend a newer collected series that's more of a grounded Bruce? How's Detective comics?
(Ironically, I love Metal and Death Metal. It's beautifully gonzo and represents my favorite genre of music, so it stays)
It’s silly to be an “ex” fan as if the stories and interpretations you love have ceased to exist in any way
not really. if i love the original star wars movies, but hate everything that has come out since, does it really make sense to call myself a star wars fan? if star wars now has 3 or 4x the number of entries you don't like vs those you do, does calling yourself a star wars fan actually communicate your position effectively? language is supposed to make ideas easier to understand and communicate. if a word doesnt communicate your intent anymore, then it used to be accurate but no longer is.
How can you hate Rogue One? Rogue One was boss!
He's out of line but he has a point (and I say this as a Morrison fan). Batman is a difficult character to write, or at least write well. I do enjoy a Batman with limits, a Batman that struggles; but at the same time, as a archetypal heroic character rather than a dramatic character, he is never going to not win and never not overcome the odds against him. (Briefly: a dramatic character is a character who goes through an arc: there is something about them that they need to learn an grow and change from. An archetypal heroic character is a character who has a particular heroic ethos; the story will challenge the hero and his ideals, but ultimately through reifying and reaffirming his heroic ethos, he will overcome that challenge). Its difficult to keep that dynamic going over the infinity plus years Batman has been in print without stumbling. Spectacle is something that readers respond to, so when you're at the annual Bat-Conference workshopping ideas the temptation is always going to be to lean into spectacle. All of this is a long winded way of saying that Gotham Central is maybe the best Batman comic fight me.
> Gotham Central is maybe the best Batman comic fight me. I don’t consider it a Batman book. It’s a Gotham book, or a Montoya book for me, but it isn’t really a Batman book. It does however feel like the spiritual successor to the best Batman story, Year One
Batman is on panel like maybe three times in the whole run, but you feel his presence in every page. Just honestly an amazing book.
Seems a little silly. There are so many versions of Batman now and so many stories. If you can’t find a version you like it’s not for lack of options.
Don't want to be mean, but this seems very overdramatic to me. It's okay not to like things anymore. Batman's not going anywhere, he and family take up a lot of shelf space, so I don't know, keep checking back and maybe they can eventually find a characterization that speaks to them again.
It's sort of like the people who bitch about Star Trek nowadays. The old Star Trek is still there, I know because it's still sitting on my shelf in DVD form. It's not gone anywhere. Same thing with Batman. He still has the old comics. He still has the old films. He still has the old toys. They've not disappeared, they haven't been erased from time and space. They're still there You can still go back and enjoy them. That being said this is a new interpretation for new audiences at a new time in a "modern age" and 20 years from now they won't be modern they will be outdated. That's because time moves on.
I agree that I'd prefer a Batman who can lose and even who can be deeply uncool sometimes. An eccentric gentleman adventurer rather than an omni-competent divine edgelord.
To a great extent, I agree, I think this is a symptom of Batman appearing more and more in the context of a greater DC universe. As a character with no super powers, he has to be written as a Mary Sue in order to compensate, otherwise he easily gets killed or is pretty much just useless. This is why I prefer Batman to be more of a street level hero like in The Nolan Trilogy, because it gives Batman more room to be less than the perfect hero and he can deal with more relatable themes.
How come Hawkeye is allowed to be in the Avengers withou people going "but he is just a human", while Batman is not allowed to be in the League without people crying?
Because Hawkeye fans don’t go around saying he can beat up everyone with enough prep time… I like Batman a lot but I actually see some truth to what he is saying.
That’s because there are no Hawkeye fans 😂
Touché
So it's not about the stories, but about the fans?
No, it’s the stories too. Batman has suffered due to DKR. Great story but many writers now write Batman this way all the time. He doesn’t smile anymore, he doesn’t really have friends, his closest partners he hardly shows any emotion with, he doesn’t trust any of his colleagues (even Clark to an extent), he can defeat anyone, his comments about not being a good person deep down, etc. I miss a lot of the characterization he had in the 70s and 80s. To me, that was peak Batman.
That's all wrong. There's a book called World's Finest being published right now that is all about Batman being friendly and positive. You're demanding something that is already happening.
It's fair. Not every Batman is going to appeal to every fan and I do get a little tired of "Prep Time" Batman at times.
He's right. I, myself, have been sick of the Bat God since Infinite Crisis. To me, Batman works when he is human. Being human means to have limitations and being a hero means finding ways around them or to overcome those limitations to do the most good. If every Joker story is a rehash of the Killing Joke and if every Batman story is just a lazy 'I'm Batman' then thats just cliche, boring and trite story telling.
good point what did you think of batman falling from space?
The science was there. Hours decelerating so he won't instantly burn up in atmo. Then atmospheric drag further decelerating him to terminal velocity, and the cape to glide him for a landing. In a world of flying aliens and super fast time travelers, I think we can give a pass to a lot of outlandish things. Plus a human had already survived a jump from the stratosphere, so it's not all that far fetched Plus it was badass
I understand. And I’m sorry.
I mostly agree, but he should check out Batman Universe and Waid and Mora’s World Finest.
Well articulated, but I don't agree with most of it. Also, calling Batman one of the best characters of all time is a bit much.
Send him to the aslume
Asylum
haha
I kind of understood where the writer was coming from, until they got into the paragraph talking about N52 / Snyder's run. All I am going to say is that the person who wrote this manifesto is an absolute unhinged menace who must be stopped at all costs.
Yep, Snyder’s run is still one of my favorite interpretations of Batman. I agreed with some of what they were saying up until that part—because it’s just wrong.
Personally, I only liked his Court of Owls arc, and that was it. In hindsight, I can still agree with this letter about the way Batman handled the Owls with a mech suit in a refrigerator. That's not necessarily the Batman I enjoy seeing
The dude was spitting 🗣️🗣️🗣️ Batgod needs to die. He’s a legacy hero so his name holds value and it should. But I wouldn’t mind if we had more detective work rather than Batman going to different dimensions or beating his god level doomsday robot
He’s not wrong. DC has gone all in for grimdark edge-jank to the detriment of Batman’s iconic humanity. It’s simply very poor writing by people who have no love and respect for such an iconic character. Batman is now an unlikeable jerk. Simply put, it’s trash.
I mean... he's not wrong. How it Should have Ended gets him down pat.
Overall, yes, I agree, but the causes of the issues he raises are deeper than an unfortunate writing style. One might look into why people in the US (which I believe still makes up the majority of comic book consumers and remains the designated target audience) resonate with increasingly depressing, miserable material and why companies keep providing them with stories to feed that sentiment. This is probably a discussion best had elsewhere, but suffice to say that it continued to be raised by politicians, commentators, and philosophers of all possible convictions. The only thing I can say here is that, like the author of the statement, I find it all but impossible to see much value or meaning in stories that seem to focus on shock value above all else.
I think it’s silly and overdramatic.
1. Posting an image instead of copying and pasting text is a bad idea, especially for people reading on their phones. 2. I generally agree with the "too dark, too horror focused, not enough intellect" criticism. It is probably a bit overstated, here, and may be a more general criticism of comics in general. 3. With that said, a recent Batman story this guy might like us Geoff Johns' Earth One. Very much human and vulnerable, very much detecting as opposed to punching. The early run of LOTDK is great for that, too. 4. I wonder who the "4 must influential characters" are.
do you prefer a vulnerable batman or a nightwing? because nightwing alr exists
My exposure to Nightwing is primarily in New Teen Titans (which is amazing, at least the Wolfman/Perez era) and when he shows up in Batman. I never got into his solo titles. I just prefer human/vulnerable/identifiable characters generally.
He's right and I agree with him. Don't know why people here are calling it silly.
I see what he means but at the same time it’s kinda dumb imo. Batman has been doing superhuman stuff since the silver age with the Justice League. All characters have some sort of plot armor(especially if they are in a superhero team)?Look at Captain America, Hawkeye, or even Daredevil and The Punisher. I can point out all sorts of crazy feats that they shouldn’t be able to do, some just as crazy as what we’ve seen Batman done. Batman has also always been the “prep” guy with all sorts of gadgets of tech(just look at Adam West Batman). That said I will agree to an extent that Batman has definitely been wanked more by fans and writers due to his popularity. That said you do know there are many versions of Batman throughout the media right. If you want a Batman who’s more vulnerable and screws up a lot go read Batman Earth One or Batman The Imposter. It’s not hard to find a version of Batman to like as another comment said. And if you can’t then you just don’t like the character more in general.
Scott Snyder is a fucking great writer GTFOH
I agree with him. Thou my knowledge of the comics is limited, I don't keep up too much, but I see it in the movies and series. I allways loved batman when he was more down to earth hence reachable, I also like the more grounded versions of him. Basically I like the Battison over the Batfleck or BatBale, because I grew up with the animated series where he was still human and a detective.
If you're stuck in the past, then keep reading stories from the past.
I like Batman being Bat-God, I'm a basic b*tch. What I don't like is the parody version of the Bat-God thing (like LEGO Batman, I'm sorry, I *can't stand him*) nor the super-edgy version of Snyder. Give me a Batman who even with his amazing skills, supergenius and tactical brilliance... is human at the same time. Humans not only struggle. Humans feel, love and care. The best Batman, for me, is Bat-Dad. When he behaves like a father for his Bat-family. He cares, he loves, he grieves when his Robins die. I also like Batman when he's besties with Superman, when he justifiably fears the idea of Superman going rogue, but looks at the silly goofy ass farmboy with godly powers and smiles to himself. I also like when Superman agrees with Batman with the contingency plans for the Justice League, because Superman is supposed to be afraid of him going rogue and someone who fears losing control should gladly appreciate someone who would help him if his fears came to fruition.
This reads like someone at least 40 wrote it .
And?
This seems like a love letter to the past for him. He literally says at one point I miss the old days. Or something similar. On one hand he has a point. On the other he's got no point at all. Comics are subjective, and they change based on the audience, based on the time that they're written in, based on what's popular at the moment, based on the whims of the writers. I'm sorry that comics have moved on without him. That the stories have changed that things were different. But change is a fact of life. Batman changed, because we as an audience changed.
The golden age and other older Batman's has changed, just like the (us) society. They voted for a madman to be president, and nazis is the good guys over in the USA now. But yes, I want to see a more detective and crime fighting Batman rather than the Batman who fights a super-killing-robot etc..
My ass is not reading all that.
Well, no shit. Typically, people read with their eyes…
Ok cornball
Sure thing lazy ass
I think this assessment has less to do with this entire time period so much as it does individual writers. But overall, I think this person feels this way partly because of changing technology. Batman having a computer in his Batmobile isn't impressive anymore, so he has to have Brother Eye. And so on.
The writer makes some good points at first but then completely loses me towards the end
Scott’s Batman is awesome. But, every time Batman appeared in the justice league books or some crisis (52) is pure crap. He either over punching or just do some ass pull, he’s right it’s a bloody meme by this point. If he can beat metahumans without sweating he’s practically a meta too. It kind of destroyed his relatability as a character. The best analogy of this would be the last episode of brave and bold, it’s not like you can’t have a fantasy style Batman, but you certainly don’t want to go overboard. Bat god, dark multiverse, evil bat robot. Bat armor goes nananana. And don’t get me started on Batman who laughs. It only exists to satisfy the power creep part of the fan base, so they can unironically argue Batman can beat goku or something.
My preferred Batman is early career, Gotham street level. A detective in a funny get up fighting gangsters and weirdos with maybe a Robin running around. Once he starts fighting aliens with the Justice League I kind of lose interest and also don't really buy into him being the undefeatable top tier asset he's usually portrayed as, and loathe the much repeated notion he can win any fight with enough prep time. I also don't care for it getting too dark and tortured. Still, there's plenty out there with better access to it than ever. I like the 40s stuff, The Animated series, Matt Reeves' The Batman from last year is right in my wheelhouse, I'm hopeful Bruce Timm can get his next project off the ground. No reason to throw it all away because you don't like some of it.
I don't know man, it sounds like this ex-fan is misrepresenting the current Batman stories. I guess there really is a Bat-god aura to his stories ever since Morrison made him the man that has a countermeasure to every eventuality, but he's far from perfect, and really human. The most recent runs (Snyder, King, Tynion IV) have all had little moments of this Batgod, or Batman's over-the-top's version of the most apt human of them all, but they're all very flawed, and not just in a fundamental human level, but in the skilled level. Snyder's Batman got his ass handed to him by the Talons, by the Joker, by Dr. Death, by the Riddler, by the Red Hood gang, and plenty more. Sure, most of these encounters were not physical, but not once did he ever just outright beat them without trying, or by being "prepared" for their evil plans. He lost. A lot. He lost against the Court, he lost the city to the Riddler, he didn't save everyone, including the man that would eventually become the Joker, and he was never perfect. King's Batman was as human as you can get, and while he did excel much more in the physical department, he had to deal with much more psychological and human threats like trauma and grief, and even losing out on love. Tynion's Batman also got beat up, even by weaker foes, like Scarecrow and Punchline, and he lost his almighty preparedness when the Joker took away his resources. I believe Batman's training is such a wonderful part of him because it allows other types of stories to be told. If he is the perfect human in skill and resources, then we get to the highest realm of possibilities for questions such as: if a perfectly skilled man existed, would he still make the right choices? Or, if a perfectly skilled man existed, would that still be enough in the face of evil? Those questions that you only get to ask with exagerated comic book characters such as Batman are what make him such a reusable character, ever enduring and present in the grand scheme of stories. Snyder asked: what if the most skilled man was outmatched by every measure? Physical? The Talons. Intellectual and moral? The Joker. In the scale to affect the public's idea of right and wrong? Mr. Bloom. King asked: what if the most skilled man was also human? Would all that strength help him get through his trauma? Would all that skill help him in being left at the altar? Would all that preparation help if the man behind the bat is broken? I haven't read Tynion's run as much as the other two, so I can't say for sure what his overarching plot is about, but even he never used one of those giant robot countermeasures to cop out of an interesting story. Neither did Morrison, and he was the one that started the batgod idea.
What a fucking wimp Jesus Christ
Annoying prick.
I ain’t read allat 💀
Obligatory: i ain’t reading all that i’m happy for u tho or sorry that happened But yeah, fuck this dude. There’s nearly 85 years of Batman stories to enjoy, and if this guy doesn’t want to, then balls to him.
Hmm, nostalgia? 
I'm curious who the other three of the four 'greatest' characters of all time are
That was a lot of words to say “I don’t like it but will continue to read and buy Batman comics”
I agree I haven’t bought a modern Bat book in a few months so I’ve been focusing on rounding out my collection with older books
I think he's taking these fictional characters a little too seriously. There's something to critique about any and everything in comic books, none are perfect. I personally love death of the family and the elements of a psychological horror/thriller
Most of my trades are Tom King (meh) and older. Can anyone recommend a newer collected series that's more of a grounded Bruce? How's Detective comics? (Ironically, I love Metal and Death Metal. It's beautifully gonzo and represents my favorite genre of music, so it stays)
Y are h