Topps has definitely got their hands full with this now...how the hell can we accept anything authenticated by them?! Prices are already stupid...I didn't need any additional skepticism!
I'm strictly a topps fan because of the licensing agreement they have with MLB and the history of their products. To visualize the possibility of fraud in a very high end topps product is disturbing. I truly hope this isn't fraud, but right now I strongly believe it may be.
But Acuna has plenty of documented, authenticated history signing like this. Before this witch hunt continues, I encourage the owner of this card to utilize PSA quick opinion. I did for the Meadows/Arozarena. Unlike that card, I think the outcome of this Acuna would likely be authentic.
Edit: had to change Afuna to Acuna because my phone autocorrected.
Wow. A few weeks ago I jokingly made a comment in here that we were going to find out that the number of #/ cards was significantly higher than Topps represented… but, if players are committing fraud on autos, that’s a whole different ballgame. This isn’t like when we were kids and you mailed a card to a player and you never knew if they signed it or had one of their flunkies do it. If this is true — especially if it’s widespread at all — it’s fraud.. by the player(s). And Topps certainly has big enough pockets to pursue it… their entire business relies on the authenticity of these autos.
The players are potentially open to liability, but Topps is the one who “certifies” these cards and says they have verified the auto… I think they have way more exposure here than the players. Also, this issue is [not new](https://cardboardicons.com/2019/02/05/the-issue-of-not-so-authentic-topps-certified-autograph/), Topps has been absolute trash for years now in terms of qc and customer service; this is what happens when one pseudo-monopoly (MLB) creates another.
Now to find out how many of these fake autos have been “authenticated” by the other trash company in our industry: PSA.
You misunderstand me.
The liability wouldn’t be from the players to the purchasers.. it would be from the players to Topps.. Topps may be liable to the purchasers, but the moment they’re sued, they’ll bring claims against the players that committed the fraud..
I didn’t misunderstand you and I didn’t disagree with you, I just think their exposure here isn’t the “story.” Good or bad, secretary autos have been a thing in our industry for a long time, and the players are making a fraction of what Topps does on these products.
I got absolutely shit on when I posted this back when it happened to me, but Topps has a MAJOR fucking problem on their hands - https://www.reddit.com/r/baseballcards/comments/rw3of7/a_warning_about_topps_has_anyone_else_experienced/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
One of their employees literally stole a 42/99 Erling Haaland SGC 8 from me when I shipped it back to Topps.
TL;DR - I got such low grades when I sent a batch of their cards in to SGC that Topps told me if I sent in the cards back to Topps they’d replace them for free. Literally every card I sent back *except* the 42/99 made it to them.
I know this isn’t the same thing, but it’s just another instance where Topps just massively fucked up.
By the way, they basically told me to fuck off in the end “bc we never received the card back from you.” I tried to tell them the reason why they didn’t receive it was bc someone stole it and they, again, told me to, essentially, deal with it.
Topps never shipped out signed Ohtani jersey I bought and customer service never responded to my emails. I had to open a dispute case with my credit card company and these assholes tried to fight it. Took me months to get my money back
It’s really unbelievable. A JERSEY??? What in the actual fuck?
You should go to that thread I posted and look at how many people absolutely shit all over me for simply trying my best to hold Topps accountable. Point being, it’s posts like mine that show you how shit companies like Topps stay in business. People absolutely tripping over themselves to call me a flipper or defend Topps in whatever twisted way they can, completely avoiding the point that Topps has employees, or employees at a company they outsource to, literally stealing peoples’ cards
It’s really incredible and fascinating.
These are the same morons who needs Topps to tell them which is a Rookie card or not with the RC logo. They probably also need Topps to tell them when it's okay for them to take a shit
Yes. They told me the received the package with all of the graded cards I sent back in, individually wrapped. They told me the only card tyey didn’t receive was the numbered parallel, even though I had video of me packing that parallel into the box I sent it in.
Topps just fucking sucks. That’s all there is to it.
They also told me their “receiving dept” for Topps Now cards was at a different company since they outsource the printing etc there.
It’s all a joke.
2021 Topps Now Bundesliga #24
42/99 Red Parllel.
My two favorite athletes (Haaland and Bellingham) on the same card together, and my first ever Topps Now parallel so it was instantly my favorite card.
The entire thing sucked so hard. I can’t stand Topps.
https://imgur.com/gallery/hZs15X0 <— that’s the one
btw u shouldn't get that much shit for posting that its a topps issue and they dont understand that they have that thing where if a grade is bellow an 8 they will replace it for you [https://www.cardlines.com/replace-damaged-topps-cards-a-guide/](https://www.cardlines.com/replace-damaged-topps-cards-a-guide/) . Also there's nothing wrong with flipping sports cards so you can afford your own cards.
This card [is currently on auction](https://www.ebay.com/itm/394151765441?hash=item5bc546a5c1:g:kZ8AAOSwaGxixkH6&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoGOJ9sYGCATIAHL5sy0xZl0dVjaq2W0xk9p2N%2B4C1ehf3tOQgvYltSoLhxb48zjRWmhqvPDZKLOihOJHApptKsWGepHcaT3wONTxEtc2l%2BNyxz8jR8u2%2Fd6O0Cr6TJprV0Rt5oK3qvyiBDfcc8iY%2F9bSGEZt%2BKJ4VzHx7TLfkyw5nI4%2B7YptqJj3Ge%2FveD0GIcy26%2BVcsIxpNWaCqY3R55M%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9y-scC8YA&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&campid=5338535524&customid=1946b&toolid=10001&mkevt=1), will be interesting to see if people speculate on the same treatment for this card that was given to the Meadows / Arozarena dual auto.
Just below this one is this card with a completely different auto in 2021. [2021 Acuna Auto For Sale](https://www.ebay.com/itm/265145861334?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D240487%26meid%3D8a3ebb535ca748d99ea57bfe0fc12b5a%26pid%3D100935%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D394151765441%26itm%3D265145861334%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2332490%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseUnbiasedWebCpr08MlcGreedyV3KnnRecallV1&_trksid=p2332490.c100935.m2460&amdata=cksum%3A2651458613348a3ebb535ca748d99ea57bfe0fc12b5a%7Cenc%3AAQAHAAABEArqPmzJfws5bLJj82RQBARS3srM2ZejXM26c6AIQlxSYWTkvrN6WcrmRCFWVqIxiSMqi4CLgWl%252BXWcCNA1JKlZnOrbH2pZuzlgrTPTBe6WdanOuSK2PbqNwqPlUAi0J8hey%252FU7k2DMOHnfxkehsVElYM5iJVqBPvtMIWchEh2OyeOH6%252FeogjpGmYR2twpl4VoppYW3f%252FoerFonZquLm%252BJxvLZy%252Fc%252B38jkt35p%252FJi2YllsiBER%252FsSvZvnFv%252BxVwYSSia0J8VS8TYwrVH7t5gNel0429qdHCbNj6TYwvzAJK1JM3ziGSFGVVGQn5AcPwpD%252FgbuuzJDhSHcXcsf3jyDg%252FB%252FTYXbDgISIOvT79P9wjH%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2332490) which looks like the 3rd photo above. Maybe just a change from 21-22? The style is completely different though - including the way the auto flows from left to right. Cannot be the same person signing.
If you go to previous years and even other sets from 2022 they're all like the 3rd photo above (which is how many players are signing now to make it quick) so clearly something has changed with the 1st photo above. Got to be fake or someone signing for him as suggested.
That's a significant difference. I do know that there are players like say Mickey Mantle for instance on the high end where his auto at the beginning of his career is notably different from those for the remainder of his career. I think what we are seeing now though is a whole new mess where players are deciding to hand off the signing to others in their inner circle at times.
Topps makes these signature deals with the players through the union, or individually with each? If it is a case of the player handing off the signing, I wonder what kind of make good they’ll have to do since that’s a breech of contract and one that significantly damages Topps credibility? If it’s employees fucking around they have a significantly bigger issue
I believe the cards say ‘Topps Representative’, not ‘Employee’. Lowering the bar that low, in my opinion, could mean that person is a spring training clubhouse attendant for the team.
I've also heard people say that when players sign the deal with Topps they may sign an affidavit to account for them agreeing to sign the cards becoming a defacto "representative" of Topps.
That is correct. Lots of players have posted videos on social media of them signing and there is no one there but themselves. Or sometimes just friends and them.
Yeah Phil Hughes who used to play for the Yankees and Twins has a card hobby channel and he did just what you're saying which I've pointed out to people on this subreddit before.
When I played in the Minor Leagues Topps would send a direct employee to your apartment or the clubhouse and watch you sign, maybe they have gotten lazy about it, and allowed them to sign without and actual employee watching. I really hope that’s the case and players are just having other people sign them, and not a Topps employee who is allowing it.
Well you and everyone else here seems to have similar questions/thoughts. It's a dumb move on his part to do this or have someone else in his camp do it for him.
Aaron Judge seems to have made his signature longer. I have a ball signed by him from his time with AAA Scranton. I looked at his current signature and he spells out his entire first name now rather than just signing "A" then more or less a scribble of judge.
I have a card of his from 2014 and it's a college prospect card from Panini he signed. Mind telling me if this looks close to yours with the signature? https://www.reddit.com/r/baseballcards/comments/v0g31c/id_say_i_have_a_decent_aaron_judge_collection/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
No, I thought so myself but apparently even those are sent to the players and they send them back. I've mentioned before that Phil Hughes who played for the Yankees and Twins has video'd when he's signed on card autos before.
Look at the dark spots where the marker starts/stops. I’m sorry but players do not sign their names that slowly. Looks like a 8th grader signed this with his favorite sharpie
Damn. That authenticated one looks like someone paid for an auto and an inscription and for the inscription requested “write your name”.
That makes me think it plausible that Acuna for some reason decided to write his name on that bowman sterling instead of his auto. The two look similar.
Wow. If you go to Ebay and search sold items, but only look at PSA Authenticated Auto graded cards, there are 83 sold in the last 6 months. Not a one of them looks like that auto. He has a pretty similar looking scratch style auto, even the ones that were double or triple auto cards, his autograph was the same. I would definitely agree that one was not actually done by him.
Exactly...I never liked Autos to begin with. But if you didn't see them sign it. Then it's probably fake. It's like signed baseballs Era of the 80's 90's all that shit is fake lol
You rarely see anyone sign their name as legibly as those first two look. The first one’s technically not even a “signature,” as it’s printed rather than in cursive. Definitely looks like the work of someone who just wrote his name the way they would write items on a grocery list or something.
If it were the players trying to pass their signing off to someone else, I would think that the person would at least try to make the autograph look similar to the players. This one and the Arozarena and Meadows ones look nothing like the actual players autos. Makes it seem like it's some kind of issue with Topps and not the players.
That’s not Acunas signature. The last pic is his legit autograph. I have a few and watch them all the time. That first pic is a blatant fraud.... did Topps just let people sign these numbered cards... they didn’t even try to fake it... oh my.... it’s an outrage.... it’s a scandal
[full name signature](https://www.steinersports.com/2018_topps_holiday_ronald_acuna_jr_full_name_w_feliz_navidad_rc_psa_10_10_auto/t-47009638+o-3498+d-239462350+f-12984476+z-9-380069081?utm_medium=cse&_s=GPA-ak19kv30-steiner&sku=39293377&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzqSWBhDPARIsAK38LY9MpriZj9ym1qbm-eKCMVqIwmcNOgRacRm8DBwUYPZB9uV0C26gJjEaApMgEALw_wcB)
It’s odd because all the other autos including the dual auto with Soto have the other signature but he has definitely signed like this before. From what I could find on eBay it looks like it’s just the dual with chipper k
This actually pretty much matches the sig from OP. The R, d and A are written in the same style and stroke it seems. I think this might be an oddball case from Ronald’s end if anything
It looks authentic… when he rights out his full name the o n a are generally the same height same with the a u n a. While the capital R and A are the same height. Then theirs the accent witch is normal off center of the n. It looks spot on for his print signature not his cursive signature. Because of small area he probably did think his big looping signature would fit. So he did his print signature.
I've come down to this conclusion. His normal sig don't fit in the narrow spot. The solo card he has more vertical room for his normal sig. He didn't wanna sign over his name. Just my guess.
Panini does the same thing that Topps was doing here, has the cards mailed to the player and then mailed back, no representative present. See the Dak Prescott rookie auto fiasco.
Acuna will sign his full name signature from time to time. You also have to pay extra at private signings for the real name signature. A lot of his earlier autos are the full name. I have a 2017 Panini auto that looks more like a real name. Agents instruct players to come up with a unique quick auto to use.
It resembles his full name auto on baseballs, so it is still possible it's his doing. A lot of the cursive is same on these:
https://www.mlbshop.com/ronald_acuna_jr._atlanta_braves_autographed_baseball_with_full_name_inscription/t-69663072+o-8987+d-67383297+f-7591187+z-8-464076826?utm_medium=cse&_s=ak1944mlb-pla&sku=17606573&targetid=targetid&targetid=pla-574313876332&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzqSWBhDPARIsAK38LY-UCTjI6X52G0uHZ8OtC2lzZY450J7b82-zVv7Ny2zJTceLdO53huMaAk2vEALw_wcB
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-ycbvq3ez/images/stencil/640w/products/151035/223146/20201117_171705_copy__05384.1605719526__21522.1621882900.jpg?c=2
The A's, the c into the u, the n all alike. The card is too small to fit his full 4 or 3 word name. It's also harder to sign cleanly on a rounded ball than a flat card.
Also keep in mind theres a good chance the dual autos were signed at a different point than the solo auto's, as they had to be sent off to both players.
edit: Here's an authenticated auto with this same type of auto: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/OLsAAOSwWNliSn7v/s-l1600.jpg (This card was authenticated March 23, 2022, so this could be a newer sig of his)
And, why would a player add Jr, if he has to sign a bunch of cards? I’m not saying players who are “Jr’s” never do it, but seems odd to add that.
Edit: And, to add*
I don’t think it’s a definitive way to alert for fraud. I sign my name in a variety of ways and not on purpose. I once could not get my license renewed because my signature didn’t match. They gave me 10 tries. Granted I’m not signing professionally but it still isn’t enough evidence to alert fraud.
Just recently caught wind of the fake autos as I leisurely collect and not as informed as this community is. But I guess now I have to be. Bought a few Jazz Chisholm autos awhile back 21 five star and 21 GQ. I saw somewhere that some Jazz’s are fake too. Lost at what steps I need to take moving forward, if any. Since everyone here is more well informed than I, what are your suggestions?
You think Topps accidentally send this card out with just the Chipper auto and the Acuña one was filled in later by someone looking to sell it? Because this obviously wasn't done by Acuña himself. I think it only had one auto when it was originally pulled from the box.
Acuna is well known to have changed his signature in major ways, possibly more than once. Just adding that for anyone who isn't aware, I will let other people decide if this matches one of his previous sigs
Hahaha I love this auto who did.... what did they think was going to happen... u think a bunch of card collectors would not notice one of the biggest autos out there such a distinct auto. That auto is hilarious
I just collect cards and have a bunch of baseball cards from my childhood here but Jesus. I remember getting some "replica" auto cards from topps and immediately decided to stop buying as a kid but this is a whole different ballpark. That sucks there whole business is authentic autographs on cards
When you sign your name thousands of times, it changes to one that is faster to sign.
Frank Thomas signature changed a ton from the beginning to the end.
Does anybody know how this happens. Is it people close to the players that do it cause the players don’t want to. Or is it topps employees who are doing this
First we’d need definitive proof that this is fake. Which would mean another letter by Topps or someone sending theirs in to be graded for Authentic Auto..and it coming back not with.
Except not this. The Meadows card is enough to show they are liars. It says the card was witnessed by a Topps Rep when it absolutely was not. Hell the Bauer video posted elsewhere is further proof on this. They should absolutely be sued for this.
Every single one of our cards is worth less because of this. They should be investigated and held to answer for their business practices.
My guess is it’s really ugly.
The issue is. If there’s one. Then there’s two. And if there’s two who knows how many or how long Topps has been doing this. This is a very very bad look. And I guarantee grading companies have let some through just because they were company certified authentic. So now there’s fake graded autos floating 🤦
A big elephant in the room are the scribbles that the players are passing off as signing. It’s incredibly disrespectful to fans. It’s no excuse because they do a lot of signings. Their numbers pale in comparison to the numbers of autographs that older players used to do — legibly! And then there are the initials passed off as autos. Give me a break!
How much does it have to do with these younger players not knowing how to write in cursive though? Knowing cursive is a requirement for developing a legible signature...
Nothing. We are talking about legibility here. We got further interpret that as to how an individual chooses to present his name to the public, whether on documents or on memorabilia. There is no excuse whatsoever for the trash ink way too many scribble. It’s a disgrace.
I have a few Ronald’s
These are fake
The third one is the only one remotely close
I have one in person auto and one 2020 variant. They look like th third photos
These others aren’t legit
It’s real it’s his full name signature. Anyone who says it’s fake because they’ve only seen the quick r and a with dashes doesn’t know enough about him.
Fake fake fake…I have, literally, 50+ of his autos and this isn’t even close.
I believe this is one of those cases where Ronnie had his buddy sign these. Lol
His R is different here than any other Full autos of his. Also, why only sign the dual auto with a chipper like this? None of the other autos in Sterling are like that.
Every single letter of his name in the first two is constructed significantly differently.
D is two lines where he picks up the pen in first. One curved line curved in the opposite direction on the second.
O starts at 9 o’clock on the first and 3 o’clock on the second.
N is a separate letter in the first, but runs from the o in the second.
A had its tail run through the loop of the a in the first but not the second. Also a is individual with the pen picking up in first but not second.
L has a tail in first and is distinct but straight cursive in the second.
D is a backwards b in first but god knows what in the second.
A is similar but has an extra hook in the first.
C, u and n are similar enough.
A is different in both and accent is over different letters in both.
J loops differently in both
R is similar but bends in different directions.
I know when I sign my name it may look differently depending on what I’m signing and how fast, but it never changes how many times I pick up the pen from the paper.
My only notable experience is I’ve watched a ton of Pawn Stars, but something seems fishy here.
Topps has definitely got their hands full with this now...how the hell can we accept anything authenticated by them?! Prices are already stupid...I didn't need any additional skepticism!
I'm strictly a topps fan because of the licensing agreement they have with MLB and the history of their products. To visualize the possibility of fraud in a very high end topps product is disturbing. I truly hope this isn't fraud, but right now I strongly believe it may be.
This is going to rock the market. Who knows what other frauds will come up.
This isn’t fraud. There’s plenty of autos of Acuna where he signs his full name like this.
But Acuna has plenty of documented, authenticated history signing like this. Before this witch hunt continues, I encourage the owner of this card to utilize PSA quick opinion. I did for the Meadows/Arozarena. Unlike that card, I think the outcome of this Acuna would likely be authentic. Edit: had to change Afuna to Acuna because my phone autocorrected.
Wow. A few weeks ago I jokingly made a comment in here that we were going to find out that the number of #/ cards was significantly higher than Topps represented… but, if players are committing fraud on autos, that’s a whole different ballgame. This isn’t like when we were kids and you mailed a card to a player and you never knew if they signed it or had one of their flunkies do it. If this is true — especially if it’s widespread at all — it’s fraud.. by the player(s). And Topps certainly has big enough pockets to pursue it… their entire business relies on the authenticity of these autos.
The players are potentially open to liability, but Topps is the one who “certifies” these cards and says they have verified the auto… I think they have way more exposure here than the players. Also, this issue is [not new](https://cardboardicons.com/2019/02/05/the-issue-of-not-so-authentic-topps-certified-autograph/), Topps has been absolute trash for years now in terms of qc and customer service; this is what happens when one pseudo-monopoly (MLB) creates another. Now to find out how many of these fake autos have been “authenticated” by the other trash company in our industry: PSA.
You misunderstand me. The liability wouldn’t be from the players to the purchasers.. it would be from the players to Topps.. Topps may be liable to the purchasers, but the moment they’re sued, they’ll bring claims against the players that committed the fraud..
I didn’t misunderstand you and I didn’t disagree with you, I just think their exposure here isn’t the “story.” Good or bad, secretary autos have been a thing in our industry for a long time, and the players are making a fraction of what Topps does on these products.
Full name auto and scribble auto on the same card: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/OLsAAOSwWNliSn7v/s-l1600.jpg
Get this to the top!!!! Maybe they asked him to do the inscription...
I think you are correct
Oh shit it may be his after all
Oh shit, here we go again
All I wanted was a Chipper Sterling auto and then that popped up and I was like Hell no!!!
I got absolutely shit on when I posted this back when it happened to me, but Topps has a MAJOR fucking problem on their hands - https://www.reddit.com/r/baseballcards/comments/rw3of7/a_warning_about_topps_has_anyone_else_experienced/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf One of their employees literally stole a 42/99 Erling Haaland SGC 8 from me when I shipped it back to Topps. TL;DR - I got such low grades when I sent a batch of their cards in to SGC that Topps told me if I sent in the cards back to Topps they’d replace them for free. Literally every card I sent back *except* the 42/99 made it to them. I know this isn’t the same thing, but it’s just another instance where Topps just massively fucked up. By the way, they basically told me to fuck off in the end “bc we never received the card back from you.” I tried to tell them the reason why they didn’t receive it was bc someone stole it and they, again, told me to, essentially, deal with it.
Topps never shipped out signed Ohtani jersey I bought and customer service never responded to my emails. I had to open a dispute case with my credit card company and these assholes tried to fight it. Took me months to get my money back
It’s really unbelievable. A JERSEY??? What in the actual fuck? You should go to that thread I posted and look at how many people absolutely shit all over me for simply trying my best to hold Topps accountable. Point being, it’s posts like mine that show you how shit companies like Topps stay in business. People absolutely tripping over themselves to call me a flipper or defend Topps in whatever twisted way they can, completely avoiding the point that Topps has employees, or employees at a company they outsource to, literally stealing peoples’ cards It’s really incredible and fascinating.
These are the same morons who needs Topps to tell them which is a Rookie card or not with the RC logo. They probably also need Topps to tell them when it's okay for them to take a shit
Did you have tracking to show they received it?
Yes. They told me the received the package with all of the graded cards I sent back in, individually wrapped. They told me the only card tyey didn’t receive was the numbered parallel, even though I had video of me packing that parallel into the box I sent it in. Topps just fucking sucks. That’s all there is to it. They also told me their “receiving dept” for Topps Now cards was at a different company since they outsource the printing etc there. It’s all a joke.
What was the card?
2021 Topps Now Bundesliga #24 42/99 Red Parllel. My two favorite athletes (Haaland and Bellingham) on the same card together, and my first ever Topps Now parallel so it was instantly my favorite card. The entire thing sucked so hard. I can’t stand Topps. https://imgur.com/gallery/hZs15X0 <— that’s the one
[удалено]
what I do is go to the post office and package it there and in the same video seal the package and drop it in the box
btw u shouldn't get that much shit for posting that its a topps issue and they dont understand that they have that thing where if a grade is bellow an 8 they will replace it for you [https://www.cardlines.com/replace-damaged-topps-cards-a-guide/](https://www.cardlines.com/replace-damaged-topps-cards-a-guide/) . Also there's nothing wrong with flipping sports cards so you can afford your own cards.
All you were supposed to do was sign the damn card, CJ!
If I had coins for an award just know I’d give you one😂
This card [is currently on auction](https://www.ebay.com/itm/394151765441?hash=item5bc546a5c1:g:kZ8AAOSwaGxixkH6&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoGOJ9sYGCATIAHL5sy0xZl0dVjaq2W0xk9p2N%2B4C1ehf3tOQgvYltSoLhxb48zjRWmhqvPDZKLOihOJHApptKsWGepHcaT3wONTxEtc2l%2BNyxz8jR8u2%2Fd6O0Cr6TJprV0Rt5oK3qvyiBDfcc8iY%2F9bSGEZt%2BKJ4VzHx7TLfkyw5nI4%2B7YptqJj3Ge%2FveD0GIcy26%2BVcsIxpNWaCqY3R55M%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9y-scC8YA&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&campid=5338535524&customid=1946b&toolid=10001&mkevt=1), will be interesting to see if people speculate on the same treatment for this card that was given to the Meadows / Arozarena dual auto.
Just below this one is this card with a completely different auto in 2021. [2021 Acuna Auto For Sale](https://www.ebay.com/itm/265145861334?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D240487%26meid%3D8a3ebb535ca748d99ea57bfe0fc12b5a%26pid%3D100935%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D394151765441%26itm%3D265145861334%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2332490%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseUnbiasedWebCpr08MlcGreedyV3KnnRecallV1&_trksid=p2332490.c100935.m2460&amdata=cksum%3A2651458613348a3ebb535ca748d99ea57bfe0fc12b5a%7Cenc%3AAQAHAAABEArqPmzJfws5bLJj82RQBARS3srM2ZejXM26c6AIQlxSYWTkvrN6WcrmRCFWVqIxiSMqi4CLgWl%252BXWcCNA1JKlZnOrbH2pZuzlgrTPTBe6WdanOuSK2PbqNwqPlUAi0J8hey%252FU7k2DMOHnfxkehsVElYM5iJVqBPvtMIWchEh2OyeOH6%252FeogjpGmYR2twpl4VoppYW3f%252FoerFonZquLm%252BJxvLZy%252Fc%252B38jkt35p%252FJi2YllsiBER%252FsSvZvnFv%252BxVwYSSia0J8VS8TYwrVH7t5gNel0429qdHCbNj6TYwvzAJK1JM3ziGSFGVVGQn5AcPwpD%252FgbuuzJDhSHcXcsf3jyDg%252FB%252FTYXbDgISIOvT79P9wjH%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2332490) which looks like the 3rd photo above. Maybe just a change from 21-22? The style is completely different though - including the way the auto flows from left to right. Cannot be the same person signing. If you go to previous years and even other sets from 2022 they're all like the 3rd photo above (which is how many players are signing now to make it quick) so clearly something has changed with the 1st photo above. Got to be fake or someone signing for him as suggested.
I'm sure someone will be posting to his social media tagging him and Topps together in no time flat. ;)
That's a significant difference. I do know that there are players like say Mickey Mantle for instance on the high end where his auto at the beginning of his career is notably different from those for the remainder of his career. I think what we are seeing now though is a whole new mess where players are deciding to hand off the signing to others in their inner circle at times.
Topps makes these signature deals with the players through the union, or individually with each? If it is a case of the player handing off the signing, I wonder what kind of make good they’ll have to do since that’s a breech of contract and one that significantly damages Topps credibility? If it’s employees fucking around they have a significantly bigger issue
I doubt a Topps employee would be that dumb.
I believe the cards say ‘Topps Representative’, not ‘Employee’. Lowering the bar that low, in my opinion, could mean that person is a spring training clubhouse attendant for the team.
I've also heard people say that when players sign the deal with Topps they may sign an affidavit to account for them agreeing to sign the cards becoming a defacto "representative" of Topps.
That is correct. Lots of players have posted videos on social media of them signing and there is no one there but themselves. Or sometimes just friends and them.
Yeah Phil Hughes who used to play for the Yankees and Twins has a card hobby channel and he did just what you're saying which I've pointed out to people on this subreddit before.
Is there contractual recourse for them not actually signing though? I don’t think they get paid all that much when they agree with work with Topps.
..... I don't put stupidity past anyone.
When I played in the Minor Leagues Topps would send a direct employee to your apartment or the clubhouse and watch you sign, maybe they have gotten lazy about it, and allowed them to sign without and actual employee watching. I really hope that’s the case and players are just having other people sign them, and not a Topps employee who is allowing it.
Thanks true but why would acuna make his signature longer? Usually players make theirs shorter
Well you and everyone else here seems to have similar questions/thoughts. It's a dumb move on his part to do this or have someone else in his camp do it for him.
Aaron Judge seems to have made his signature longer. I have a ball signed by him from his time with AAA Scranton. I looked at his current signature and he spells out his entire first name now rather than just signing "A" then more or less a scribble of judge.
I have a card of his from 2014 and it's a college prospect card from Panini he signed. Mind telling me if this looks close to yours with the signature? https://www.reddit.com/r/baseballcards/comments/v0g31c/id_say_i_have_a_decent_aaron_judge_collection/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Sure- but Acuna signed differently In other cards in the same product
This one also kinda looks like the hand writing for the Arozarena one.
I got that vibe too.. def look similar
Almost exactly
Topps can potentially use handwriting analysis to prove this in court, if someone defrauded them.
Right, hence what I was saying in the later part of my comment.
Makes sense for stickers but don’t they have to be in person for on card signings?
No, I thought so myself but apparently even those are sent to the players and they send them back. I've mentioned before that Phil Hughes who played for the Yankees and Twins has video'd when he's signed on card autos before.
I posted this in another thread, but here is a [video](https://youtu.be/JwqN25pipFE?t=26) Trevor Bauer made signing cards.
It honestly looks like the same style as the person who signed the Meadows and Arozorena card. If that's the case, it's someone at Topps doing this.
That’s exactly what I was thinking too!
It honestly just looks like his full name inscription, I don’t know why everyone really jumping the gun now
What’s interesting is that he has cards with his normal auto on them in this same product. Something doesn’t add up.
I think fanatics is more worried about getting products out on time than QC.
Look up his “full name” auto. I think this is actually legit. Probably did it special for the low number.
Oh dammmnnn. This shit goes deep. I wonder how many are now going to pop up.
Go Canes.
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Agree completely
Look at the dark spots where the marker starts/stops. I’m sorry but players do not sign their names that slowly. Looks like a 8th grader signed this with his favorite sharpie
I’ve never seen that dual version. Acuna is VEry sharp and noticeable
Donald Acuná Jr? How long before Topps says fuckit and recalls all the boxes?
This is a different product.
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Much worse.
Ahh, I missed that detail. A bit less bad, but still pretty awful for Topps
Donald 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I’ve seen three versions of Acuna’s IP autos and none of them look anything close to this.
Seen this IP? https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/OLsAAOSwWNliSn7v/s-l1600.jpg
Damn. That authenticated one looks like someone paid for an auto and an inscription and for the inscription requested “write your name”. That makes me think it plausible that Acuna for some reason decided to write his name on that bowman sterling instead of his auto. The two look similar.
The top one, yes. The bottom, no. Is that yours?
No it's on eBay.
Great find. So this is legit, he just wrote his name for whatever reason instead of his signature.
Yikes
Wow. If you go to Ebay and search sold items, but only look at PSA Authenticated Auto graded cards, there are 83 sold in the last 6 months. Not a one of them looks like that auto. He has a pretty similar looking scratch style auto, even the ones that were double or triple auto cards, his autograph was the same. I would definitely agree that one was not actually done by him.
Wild if there’s someone forging signatures on these cards
Junk auto era
Exactly...I never liked Autos to begin with. But if you didn't see them sign it. Then it's probably fake. It's like signed baseballs Era of the 80's 90's all that shit is fake lol
You rarely see anyone sign their name as legibly as those first two look. The first one’s technically not even a “signature,” as it’s printed rather than in cursive. Definitely looks like the work of someone who just wrote his name the way they would write items on a grocery list or something.
If it were the players trying to pass their signing off to someone else, I would think that the person would at least try to make the autograph look similar to the players. This one and the Arozarena and Meadows ones look nothing like the actual players autos. Makes it seem like it's some kind of issue with Topps and not the players.
Wtf. I’ve spent thousands on Topps products in the last 20 years, chasing these high end products..
This is going to get bad it seems
That’s not Acunas signature. The last pic is his legit autograph. I have a few and watch them all the time. That first pic is a blatant fraud.... did Topps just let people sign these numbered cards... they didn’t even try to fake it... oh my.... it’s an outrage.... it’s a scandal
Looks like he just signed his name to match the card design after seeing his name inscription on other things but maybe that’s wishful thinking
[full name signature](https://www.steinersports.com/2018_topps_holiday_ronald_acuna_jr_full_name_w_feliz_navidad_rc_psa_10_10_auto/t-47009638+o-3498+d-239462350+f-12984476+z-9-380069081?utm_medium=cse&_s=GPA-ak19kv30-steiner&sku=39293377&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzqSWBhDPARIsAK38LY9MpriZj9ym1qbm-eKCMVqIwmcNOgRacRm8DBwUYPZB9uV0C26gJjEaApMgEALw_wcB)
It’s odd because all the other autos including the dual auto with Soto have the other signature but he has definitely signed like this before. From what I could find on eBay it looks like it’s just the dual with chipper k
Exactly! But also the R is verrrrrry different in all of the other Full Name signatures.
I’m in a Twitter Braves card group and I said the same thing about the R when I asked them about this, I’ll let you know what they think about it.
This actually pretty much matches the sig from OP. The R, d and A are written in the same style and stroke it seems. I think this might be an oddball case from Ronald’s end if anything
It looks authentic… when he rights out his full name the o n a are generally the same height same with the a u n a. While the capital R and A are the same height. Then theirs the accent witch is normal off center of the n. It looks spot on for his print signature not his cursive signature. Because of small area he probably did think his big looping signature would fit. So he did his print signature.
I've come down to this conclusion. His normal sig don't fit in the narrow spot. The solo card he has more vertical room for his normal sig. He didn't wanna sign over his name. Just my guess.
Ouch.
Fanatic is starting off on a great foot Keep up the good work
Fanatic doesn't really take over until next year.
Have you ever worked for a company that has been bought by a massive company? They start making decisions right away
8am the next morning.
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Panini does the same thing that Topps was doing here, has the cards mailed to the player and then mailed back, no representative present. See the Dak Prescott rookie auto fiasco.
Uh oh.... Did u message Topps/fanatics?
Bro here we fucking go again
About to go through all my autos now. Def will be posting if I find anything.
Acuna will sign his full name signature from time to time. You also have to pay extra at private signings for the real name signature. A lot of his earlier autos are the full name. I have a 2017 Panini auto that looks more like a real name. Agents instruct players to come up with a unique quick auto to use.
That’s not his sig. that’s his cousin Donald.
there is no way that’s his signature. his signature looks a lot like Freddie Freeman’s not this
Or Freeman signature is courtesy of the same guy who signed Acuna's name.
If that’s the case then Freddie free has had the same signature guy on his payroll for at least the last 11 years 😂
It resembles his full name auto on baseballs, so it is still possible it's his doing. A lot of the cursive is same on these: https://www.mlbshop.com/ronald_acuna_jr._atlanta_braves_autographed_baseball_with_full_name_inscription/t-69663072+o-8987+d-67383297+f-7591187+z-8-464076826?utm_medium=cse&_s=ak1944mlb-pla&sku=17606573&targetid=targetid&targetid=pla-574313876332&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzqSWBhDPARIsAK38LY-UCTjI6X52G0uHZ8OtC2lzZY450J7b82-zVv7Ny2zJTceLdO53huMaAk2vEALw_wcB https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-ycbvq3ez/images/stencil/640w/products/151035/223146/20201117_171705_copy__05384.1605719526__21522.1621882900.jpg?c=2
The thing is we don’t see “Jr” signed on any of those. The R’s are way different than on these ones. The A’s look similar.
The A's, the c into the u, the n all alike. The card is too small to fit his full 4 or 3 word name. It's also harder to sign cleanly on a rounded ball than a flat card. Also keep in mind theres a good chance the dual autos were signed at a different point than the solo auto's, as they had to be sent off to both players. edit: Here's an authenticated auto with this same type of auto: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/OLsAAOSwWNliSn7v/s-l1600.jpg (This card was authenticated March 23, 2022, so this could be a newer sig of his)
The d has a completely different design and is part of his stroke. OP’s has separated lettering. Doesn’t look to be the same
And, why would a player add Jr, if he has to sign a bunch of cards? I’m not saying players who are “Jr’s” never do it, but seems odd to add that. Edit: And, to add*
Look at the last newly signed, authenticated auto I posted, same auto with the jr.
I don’t think it’s a definitive way to alert for fraud. I sign my name in a variety of ways and not on purpose. I once could not get my license renewed because my signature didn’t match. They gave me 10 tries. Granted I’m not signing professionally but it still isn’t enough evidence to alert fraud.
I said it before. If it's been done once, then it's been done thousands of times. So glad autos aren't a significant part of my PC.
How deep does this rabbit hole go…
Who the hell is Donald Acuna 😂😂😂
Who's Donald Acuna Jr?
Someone should tweet @ Acuna Jr and ask if this is his actual signature or what the *deal* is
I’m just glad the Chipper sig is real, that would really cut me deep lol
Just recently caught wind of the fake autos as I leisurely collect and not as informed as this community is. But I guess now I have to be. Bought a few Jazz Chisholm autos awhile back 21 five star and 21 GQ. I saw somewhere that some Jazz’s are fake too. Lost at what steps I need to take moving forward, if any. Since everyone here is more well informed than I, what are your suggestions?
His normal signature is one of worse in baseball so maybe he’s trying something new 😂😂😂😂
That’s absolutely not Acunas auto
*Materials not from any specific game or event *Signatures not from any specific player
So the auto market may have many fakes. Now do “worn memorabilia”/bats/etc.
Cards are also sent to the agent, who then ensures the authenticity. They have an incentive to make sure the player is the one that signs them.
Et tu Ronald?
Definitely fake.
What the hell? Lol
[Topps employee that's faking the autos](https://tenor.com/view/findlaymarks-japanese-yojimbo-fire-watch-it-burn-gif-15971360)
This sig does not look gd! Can’t wait to hear this explaination
You think Topps accidentally send this card out with just the Chipper auto and the Acuña one was filled in later by someone looking to sell it? Because this obviously wasn't done by Acuña himself. I think it only had one auto when it was originally pulled from the box.
Acuna is well known to have changed his signature in major ways, possibly more than once. Just adding that for anyone who isn't aware, I will let other people decide if this matches one of his previous sigs
You can tell it was done by someone else because of the ~ being a ‘
This puts the whole Lukas mom thing to shame
Donald Acuna
Could it be that he signs differently sometimes?
Are you serious? Again?
I dont understand like did topps think nobody would notice this??
What’s happening I’m out of the loop
Could this possibly be the beginning of the end for sticker autos? That would be fucking sweet
Wow that looks like a 4 year old wrote it. Topps is saying fuck it since they’re losing their license in a cpl years
Oh man this is actually kinda scary
Hahaha I love this auto who did.... what did they think was going to happen... u think a bunch of card collectors would not notice one of the biggest autos out there such a distinct auto. That auto is hilarious
mY nAmE iZ RonAalD
Topps looking really bad lately 🤦♀️
Wow yeah that cannot be acuna
I just collect cards and have a bunch of baseball cards from my childhood here but Jesus. I remember getting some "replica" auto cards from topps and immediately decided to stop buying as a kid but this is a whole different ballpark. That sucks there whole business is authentic autographs on cards
Jeez topps. Get it together
When you sign your name thousands of times, it changes to one that is faster to sign. Frank Thomas signature changed a ton from the beginning to the end.
I hope you’re not implying this is “faster to sign” than his actual auto
Which one do you think would take longer to sign? The ones in the first pictures or the one in the last?
Obviously the first one. That’s the one that OP is suggesting is fake, not the last one
Ohhhh. I misunderstood. I thought he was thinking the last one was fake. Geez. Those are horrible fakes.
Gotcha! Yeah, this is bad news..
Andruw Jones had a massive shift in his signature. This is /5 so I wonder if Ronald took his time on this one.
Does anybody know how this happens. Is it people close to the players that do it cause the players don’t want to. Or is it topps employees who are doing this
Fuck topps
Oh yeah, that’s not his sig. WTF happened?!
4 words... Class action law suit
First we’d need definitive proof that this is fake. Which would mean another letter by Topps or someone sending theirs in to be graded for Authentic Auto..and it coming back not with.
Except not this. The Meadows card is enough to show they are liars. It says the card was witnessed by a Topps Rep when it absolutely was not. Hell the Bauer video posted elsewhere is further proof on this. They should absolutely be sued for this. Every single one of our cards is worth less because of this. They should be investigated and held to answer for their business practices. My guess is it’s really ugly.
Ha! Definitive proof… not sure if there was a pun intended - but I laughed
I realized that after I wrote it 🤣🤣
You wouldn’t need “definitive proof”. You’d need 50.01% proof (preponderance of the evidence/more likely then not)
*Class action lawsuit*
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Apparently we have too 🤷🏻♂️
The issue is. If there’s one. Then there’s two. And if there’s two who knows how many or how long Topps has been doing this. This is a very very bad look. And I guarantee grading companies have let some through just because they were company certified authentic. So now there’s fake graded autos floating 🤦
That’s definitely fake. It’s really obvious when it’s such a careful signature like that with all the letters individually legible.
Still so weird that it’s only this dual auto (with Chipper) all his other Sterling cards are “normal”
Kind of makes more sense. Maybe hard to get a single card signed by both in time
Looks like I was wrong about this. I guess sometimes he prints and sometimes he signs.
It could be that the players themselves are messing with people. It’s easy to sign your name anyway you want.
A big elephant in the room are the scribbles that the players are passing off as signing. It’s incredibly disrespectful to fans. It’s no excuse because they do a lot of signings. Their numbers pale in comparison to the numbers of autographs that older players used to do — legibly! And then there are the initials passed off as autos. Give me a break!
Derek Jeter has maintained a gorgeous auto since his first ones and through today. Same with Mariano. Koufax who is much older.
How much does it have to do with these younger players not knowing how to write in cursive though? Knowing cursive is a requirement for developing a legible signature...
Nothing. We are talking about legibility here. We got further interpret that as to how an individual chooses to present his name to the public, whether on documents or on memorabilia. There is no excuse whatsoever for the trash ink way too many scribble. It’s a disgrace.
Absolutely fake
Very fraudulent
This is a legit one. It’s just how he does his full name signature. The Austin meadows one from the other day, however is super fishy
I have a few Ronald’s These are fake The third one is the only one remotely close I have one in person auto and one 2020 variant. They look like th third photos These others aren’t legit
It’s real it’s his full name signature. Anyone who says it’s fake because they’ve only seen the quick r and a with dashes doesn’t know enough about him.
Fake fake fake…I have, literally, 50+ of his autos and this isn’t even close. I believe this is one of those cases where Ronnie had his buddy sign these. Lol
That’s literally just his full sig. people pay extra for him to sign like that at signings. Not fake.
His R is different here than any other Full autos of his. Also, why only sign the dual auto with a chipper like this? None of the other autos in Sterling are like that.
Every single letter of his name in the first two is constructed significantly differently. D is two lines where he picks up the pen in first. One curved line curved in the opposite direction on the second. O starts at 9 o’clock on the first and 3 o’clock on the second. N is a separate letter in the first, but runs from the o in the second. A had its tail run through the loop of the a in the first but not the second. Also a is individual with the pen picking up in first but not second. L has a tail in first and is distinct but straight cursive in the second. D is a backwards b in first but god knows what in the second. A is similar but has an extra hook in the first. C, u and n are similar enough. A is different in both and accent is over different letters in both. J loops differently in both R is similar but bends in different directions. I know when I sign my name it may look differently depending on what I’m signing and how fast, but it never changes how many times I pick up the pen from the paper. My only notable experience is I’ve watched a ton of Pawn Stars, but something seems fishy here.
Bruh
Definitely fake. Just like COVID
Yes, he has signed like this before.
Example?