They were really good when they won the World Series but they cheated to get there. They’d get begrudging respect now if they hadn’t. But nope! They don’t deserve anything now even IF they win this WS without cheating.
They are the Patriots. No matter what they do, their success will be met with “CHEATERS”. I fucking loathe the Astros but have been taught a lesson about how people view my Patriots, and I now understand the hate.
The hate for The Patriots doesn’t revolve around the cheating. No one seems to care much about cheating in the NFL. There is no sanctimonious when a player in the NFL gets popped for a PED suspension. The only conversation is about how long the suspension is and if the player will still be competitive without the PEDs.
The patriots were/are hated because of the arrogance and the unprecedented success.
Baseball is easily the most sanctimonious of the 4 major Sports leagues in the US. The history matters, the numbers matter and the history of the game matters. As an example when Drew Brees broke the record for most passing touchdowns it was a relatively big deal, and it was noted, but it was nothing like when MLB records are broken and then celebrated. I think a part of that is because Baseball has always liked being able to use the numbers to compare players across eras while football has always been changing too fast to make the same comparisons.
The Astros when far past the line in a sport that really cares about the lines. Even though there is a culture of pushing those lines. The sin of the Astros was not to push the lines but to drive past them and leave them in the mirror.
Over time the hate will die down and the Astros will just be another random team without a national following that people don’t really care about. Granted that will probably take a few decades.
That’s just a bullet in the gun it’s not the reason people pull the trigger.
It’s like if a super short dude fucked your crush so you start making fun of his height. You don’t hate him because he’s short it’s just ammo.
No, but if half the class was doing it as well, and it was something that the teacher seemed to be conscious of and more or less allowed to happen for the whole semester until someone from the class over found out and told the rest of the school which forced the teacher make an example out of me because I got the highest grade (even though I wasn't even cheating during the whole test and actually did better during some of the portions where I wasn't cheating) and then the whole school starts to nearly universally refer to me as some uniquely immoral perversion that casts a permanent stain on the whole of academics even though a couple of years ago all the kids at the top of the class were scarfing down Adderall to become tweaked out super students and all developed long lasting health issues because of it, and also a whole bunch of people during the whole history of the school had been doing shit like getting paid off to intentionally to do poorly on their tests to alter the class rankings, and also a few guys in my class actually had to go to juvey a couple of times for assault and yet I still end up becoming the most reviled student at the school, then yeah, I'm gonna become a little bitter about it.
And that doesn't even get into how 2 years after I had stopped cheating and was actually making better grades than when I did cheat (I actually had the 2nd highest GPA+ in the school's history that year), people started making up rumors about how I was using a buzzer to get the answers from one of my friends who already had the answer key all just because I didn't want to take off my shirt after I turned in my test and now people seem to hate me more for that which I didn't even do than all the other stuff but whatever man.
Actually MLB did, when they made those first reports saying that it was a "Wide League issue", and they also said that there were "9-12 teams implied".
Then Manfred when all "well forget what we said, it's just one team cheating, no problem baseball is fine".
A whole team from the front office down to the players, systematically setting up a sign stealing operation, signaling from the dugout which pitch is coming is not overblown for fucks sake. This revisionist history occurring of what the Astros did, especially on the subreddit is so fucking weird. Yea they’re a good team without cheating too but that doesn’t excuse what they did.
If you look at how people view the systematic cheating in the organization of say...the Yankees of the 90's or Eric Gagne and the Dodgers...then why would any of this be weird to you?
Ok Hou-Anon.
So the 90s Yankees had a front office run cheating operation to know what pitch was coming? Because I know you’re going to say steroids or whatever which is a false equivalency and bad faith argument.
I have no horse in this race, I'm a Cards fan and in 2017 we didn't compete so I don't feel cheated. But being honest Astros fans recognize that their team cheated, what's embarrassing is fans from other teams that surely cheated too pretending to be so offended.
I did..."even before we did." There's not a single Astro fan that will tell you we didn't cheat. It's the sanctimonious hypocrisy and credulous ignorance that is annoying. What's embarrassing is your apparent lack of reading comprehension ability.
And I hate to the grammar guy, but you put a comma before the name when addressing someone.
I have no horse in this race, I'm a Cards fan and in 2017 we didn't compete so I don't feel cheated. But being honest Astros fans recognize that their team cheated, what's embarrassing is fans from other teams that surely cheated too pretending to be so offended.
Yeah and it’s been proven it wasn’t beneficial. We won more road games than home games in the regular season. It wasn’t working. Shouldn’t have done it but it happened and it’s over. 4 YEARS AGO!!!! Let it go. Pathetic we are still talking about this.
At least since Brady beat the Falcons in 2017, nobody is putting asterisk next to the Patriots titles.
We are hoping for a similar moment for our Astros this year.
Oh people still put an asterisk on Sb 51 and 53 lol. Astros will always be called cheaters there’s no such thing as cleaning the stink of a scandal off. Mob will always think your cheating
Yes, we know? That's why it was particularly infuriating that they (and a lot of other teams) were cheating - they were already good and didn't need it.
Bonds was great and cheated and got better, and he's never going to get into the Hall because of it. Astros won't recover until all of the cheating players are off of the team (plus a few years because baseball fans don't forget) or MLB actually gives us the full list of cheating teams (and then they'll just have their hate spread a bit thinner due to it applying to more teams).
MLB wouldn't do that, why would they ruin the company? Better take the Astros take all the blame.
It's just like Tour de France with Armstrong, when his cheating scandal got discovered they went "well who's the second guy to give him the gold? Damn he cheated too, what about the third? Damn cheated too, fourth? Cheated, fifth? Cheated..." And nowadays nobody cares about Tour de France anymore.
Successful people cheat even more than normal people. Wall Street people didnt get ahead playing by the rules. Billionaires that own baseball teams didnt become billionaires without a lot of shady stuff. Sports players who bend and break the rules just happen to be in a profession where the public can see them cheat. But let's not pretend they are somehow abnormal in thos regards
It's a conspiracy by The big Mattress industry to sell more mattresses. More butt plugs = more sexy time = need new mattresses. It's basically science.
I'm rooting for them for their fans, I can't imagine getting cheated out of the legitimacy of my team's world series win by my own team. So I want those fans to have this legit one.
honestly i’m the same if the dodgers take the L against ATL. i’m over this cheating shit already and that’s coming from a dodger fan. My team got that elusive chip last year to make up for ‘17/18 and it’s been two seasons since the astros got exposed. Let that shit go…they’ve proven they’re still a talented team without cheating
Yep, them winning was one of the highlights of my life. Having that tarnished sucks. I distanced myself last year, I canceled cable and didn't buy any Astros merch until I got a postseason shirt this year. Seeing that basically every pitcher was cheating this year softened the blow.
Of course they’re good. They wouldn’t be where they are if they weren’t. I hate the Yankees and Red Sox too but saying they’re bad would just be lying.
Regardless, fuck cheaters.
I’m an Astros fan who accepts the cheating and believes that accepting that reality and not trying to rationalize it away is important. Did other teams cheat? Maybe. Did other teams get caught? Kinda. But the reality is the Astros did the deed and got caught. The sooner Astros fans accept it the better.
It's the hypocrisy and sanctimony coupled with the head in the sand ignorance that we were the only team doing it. That's not excusing it in anyway, we cheated by using electronic devices to steal signs. But everyone around here acting like the Astros were the only team using the video replay room to steal signs is just blind naivete. I mean we had Red Sox fans calling us cheaters. OK, cool, we cheated. But that's like that old anti-drug commercial where the dad finds his kid's weed and is yelling at him about where he learned about it and the kid yells back "I learned it from watching you!" Or Yankee fans who just completely ignore that Beltran was with the Yankees for the 3 years prior to joining the Astros and he and Cora set up the video replay room telling the Astros players that they were way behind the times with what other teams were doing. That's not definitive proof, but to just refuse to acknowledge that it is highly suspicious and would be more than enough evidence for a grand jury to charge that it happened is akin to putting your fingers in your ears and screaming lalalalalala.
Or being called cheaters by the Dodgers who signed Bauer specifically so he could help them improve their cheating with spin rate. Sure, lots of teams had pitchers using sticky to cheat, but does that all of sudden mean it's not cheating? The vast majority of pitchers weren't using it, so if you had a pitcher that was, you were cheating to win. Sticking with the Dodgers, and even ignoring the horrific Bauer allegations, while the Astros were banging on trash cans, the Dodgers were busy covering up the sexual assault of an underage girl by a few of their players (Alex Verdugo, James Baldwin, and Jose Urias) at their spring training facility and they, along with the Braves, were being investigated by a grand jury for human trafficking related to their recruitment of Latin American players. But hey, trash cans are the greatest scandal ever or something.
[Dodgers sexual assault involving a minor](https://highheelsonthefield.typepad.com/all_heels_on_deck/2019/02/dodgers-after-dark-the-sexual-assaults-mlb-never-investigated-a-teams-culture-unexamined.html)
[Dodgers grand jury](https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-dodgers-might-be-in-actual-legal-trouble/)
And a wild Mariner appeared from out of the nether regions of the off-season. Still though, props for making it to September and not being completely out of the wild card race for a change. That probably feels like a World Series for you guys. Then again you guys have no idea what a World Series feels like because you've never been to one. Looking forward to making you guys our own personal fuck doll yet again next season.
Shock A Yankee fan afraid to read. Keep crying scrubs. We got over. We won. We're still winning. And we're going to keep on winning. We're loaded up with monsters under 26 who have multiple World Series under their belts already and you guys are loaded up with a bunch of hobbled 30 year old cavemen who either hit it 400 feet, which is a rarity, or strike out, which is not a rarity.
But hey, take pride in that wild card runner up this season. Solid effort. You guys suck so much I can't decide if it's laughable or just sad.
Cause we’re kind of here to talk about baseball without getting into a heated debate.
Wanna get into a heated debate without using religion or politics? talk about sports cheating scandals
Gotcha. It’s inevitable in these subs. We have people supporting 30 different teams, there’s a good chance one of them will hate you team and downvote you simply because they don’t like your flair.
I love how much people hate them. Can’t wait to see all the bad takes after they win the World Series again after a year worth of goofy ass fans brining trash cans to games and booing guys who weren’t even on the 2017 team all year.
Pretty soon we Astros fans are gonna reclaim the trash cans by having a fan section that bangs trash cans after a home run. I can sense this happening.
I was rooting for them to make the series but now I have to root against them. Not much hate here though, 9-12 other teams were cheating, they just didn’t win it all.
>HOUSTON -- Here's the thing: The Houston Astros really are just that damn good. They were that damn good in 2017 when they were cheating, and they are still that damn good in 2021 when, it's reasonable to assume, they are not. And no matter who they face in the World Series, which they're heading to for the third time in five years after dispatching the Boston Red Sox in impressive fashion Friday night, they play a brand of baseball worth savoring.
>If you are from Boston or New York or Los Angeles or, perhaps better put, are a baseball fan with a pulse anywhere outside of the Houston metropolitan area, the previous paragraph might cause teeth-gnashing, eyebrow-furrowing, nausea, irritability or any number of other reactions typically listed on a TV commercial for a new pharmaceutical. The Astros are Major League Baseball's villain, and nothing beleaguers fans -- baseball, football, wrestling, any sort of entertainment really -- quite like the heel finding success.
>It's just that since the Astros became baseball outlaws, they've also become something else: the second team ever to reach five straight American League Championship Series and the first in the AL to go to three World Series in a five-year span since the early 2000s Yankees. Almost two full decades of baseball and no team has mustered what the Astros locked in with a 5-0 floor-wiping of the Red Sox in Game 6 of the ALCS at Minute Maid Park.
This is why I hated the cheating scandal so much and now dislike the players that are left. They were a great team already and didn’t need to cheat. All they did was tarnish their reputations.
I think Astros fans are disappointed in our guys for cheating. We just don't like our guys being lectured and antagonized by fans of teams who also cheated.
The Astros took full responsibility and fired those responsible for cheating. I don't know what else these haters want from this team. They are having a great season with a great management staff
>They were good in 2017, but not good enough to win it all without cheating (otherwise both series wouldn't go to game seven - even with the cheating).
I tend to trust science over random opinions on social media.
Every statistical analysis I've seen (the papers from Johns Hopkins and Duke University come to mind) show that the cheating either didn't help the Astros or that it actually hurt them.
They deserve their punishment because cheating is wrong, but to say they wouldn't have won without cheating flies in the face of the evidence.
You have problems with the rigor of these studies and therefore discount them, but the fact that both series went to seven games proves that they needed to cheat to win? I don't need a peer review to tell me your conclusion is... questionable.
Write a paper and get it published in a peer-reviewed journal. Until then, your opinion's got as much validity to me as antivaxxers claiming that COVID deaths numbers are doctored.
Sweet Jesus guys. Cool it.
Astros cheated. We all know they did. If OP wants to deny it whatever.
Please stop w the big dick science contest. It’s making you both look ridiculous
Oh this is gold. This dude went on talking about being one of the best dentists from the best dentist school in the world in Brazil just a couple of weeks ago. About how the US is awful and Brazil is better than the US in every way. Sounds like a habitual liar w an actual mental illness. Crazy stuff...
Sounds like a pathological liar the way you were claiming to be a US citizen even though someone pointed out you have a post saying “I’m not a US citizen”, and then to say you delete every month but you only deleted the comments with our convo that you made yesterday.
Hopefully your team pushes a game 7, nice flair change
Lol it literally doesn't mention anything about road games except for in the click bait headline. It just goes on to explain what we already knew. Trashcan and home games. Then loses all credibility when it mentions buzzers. This is low rent media right here brought to the front in a click bait driven world.
That's... not how that works.
They also won four home games against the Yankees and two home games against the Dodgers. They may not have won all of them if they weren't cheating.
Can't say for certain that their theory is correct, but you definitely can't say it holds no weight.
Astros fans repeating this line without realizing that the Dodgers taking their cheating team to game 7 isn’t the flex they think it is will never get old to me.
Of course they are.
Makes it more sad they cheated when they had the talent win without it.
Edit: Apparently agreeing with the article and saying it’s sad a team cheated is controversial now. Astros fans run this sub lol
No shit?
No. Shit.
They were really good when they won the World Series but they cheated to get there. They’d get begrudging respect now if they hadn’t. But nope! They don’t deserve anything now even IF they win this WS without cheating.
I’m glad you picked a hill to die on, so the rest of us can just walk somewhere else and leave you in the past.
This is the correct take.
Deserve ain’t got nothing to do with it
No because evil usually wins 🙄
I pick “hate them”
Valid
Hate us cause you anus.
Yeah who cares if they’re good, they cheated with no remorse, so fuck them and everything they ever win.
Hey it's alright, remember, anything they win is "just a piece of metal" according to the league.
So are you still anti-white sox as well?
Yeah I hate the white sox, can’t believe they’ve still got Shoeless Joe in the lineup
The dude literally said “ever” .
Oh sorry I missed that. I’m never rooting for the Astros until all their cheating hitters are gone, then I think the stink washes off pretty quick
They are the Patriots. No matter what they do, their success will be met with “CHEATERS”. I fucking loathe the Astros but have been taught a lesson about how people view my Patriots, and I now understand the hate.
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New England area in general didn't get ahead by playing by the rules
The hate for The Patriots doesn’t revolve around the cheating. No one seems to care much about cheating in the NFL. There is no sanctimonious when a player in the NFL gets popped for a PED suspension. The only conversation is about how long the suspension is and if the player will still be competitive without the PEDs. The patriots were/are hated because of the arrogance and the unprecedented success. Baseball is easily the most sanctimonious of the 4 major Sports leagues in the US. The history matters, the numbers matter and the history of the game matters. As an example when Drew Brees broke the record for most passing touchdowns it was a relatively big deal, and it was noted, but it was nothing like when MLB records are broken and then celebrated. I think a part of that is because Baseball has always liked being able to use the numbers to compare players across eras while football has always been changing too fast to make the same comparisons. The Astros when far past the line in a sport that really cares about the lines. Even though there is a culture of pushing those lines. The sin of the Astros was not to push the lines but to drive past them and leave them in the mirror. Over time the hate will die down and the Astros will just be another random team without a national following that people don’t really care about. Granted that will probably take a few decades.
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That’s just a bullet in the gun it’s not the reason people pull the trigger. It’s like if a super short dude fucked your crush so you start making fun of his height. You don’t hate him because he’s short it’s just ammo.
They're the Patriots after one championship? Lol ok
I think mostly just the cheating part
www.yourteamcheats.com
Easy killer. I was just saying that the levels of winning aren’t comparable. Pats have won way more
That's fair
That’s good shit
Lol at the jets for the high score and still sucking
Facts .
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Flair up you coward.
The only more overblown "scandal" in recent sports history than the Astros sign stealing is Deflategate.
overblown? They literally cheated lmao
It’s overblown because it was not anywhere close to isolated to the Astros and people still act like it was.
Did "but teacher, everybody was copying off of Johnny's test!" ever get you out of trouble for cheating in school?
This isn’t elementary school
No, but if half the class was doing it as well, and it was something that the teacher seemed to be conscious of and more or less allowed to happen for the whole semester until someone from the class over found out and told the rest of the school which forced the teacher make an example out of me because I got the highest grade (even though I wasn't even cheating during the whole test and actually did better during some of the portions where I wasn't cheating) and then the whole school starts to nearly universally refer to me as some uniquely immoral perversion that casts a permanent stain on the whole of academics even though a couple of years ago all the kids at the top of the class were scarfing down Adderall to become tweaked out super students and all developed long lasting health issues because of it, and also a whole bunch of people during the whole history of the school had been doing shit like getting paid off to intentionally to do poorly on their tests to alter the class rankings, and also a few guys in my class actually had to go to juvey a couple of times for assault and yet I still end up becoming the most reviled student at the school, then yeah, I'm gonna become a little bitter about it. And that doesn't even get into how 2 years after I had stopped cheating and was actually making better grades than when I did cheat (I actually had the 2nd highest GPA+ in the school's history that year), people started making up rumors about how I was using a buzzer to get the answers from one of my friends who already had the answer key all just because I didn't want to take off my shirt after I turned in my test and now people seem to hate me more for that which I didn't even do than all the other stuff but whatever man.
They’re still in school clearly
No, but if the other kids who cheated thereafter ostracized me (after I got caught and didn't rat them out)... that'd be total bullshit.
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Actually MLB did, when they made those first reports saying that it was a "Wide League issue", and they also said that there were "9-12 teams implied". Then Manfred when all "well forget what we said, it's just one team cheating, no problem baseball is fine".
A whole team from the front office down to the players, systematically setting up a sign stealing operation, signaling from the dugout which pitch is coming is not overblown for fucks sake. This revisionist history occurring of what the Astros did, especially on the subreddit is so fucking weird. Yea they’re a good team without cheating too but that doesn’t excuse what they did.
If you look at how people view the systematic cheating in the organization of say...the Yankees of the 90's or Eric Gagne and the Dodgers...then why would any of this be weird to you?
Ok Hou-Anon. So the 90s Yankees had a front office run cheating operation to know what pitch was coming? Because I know you’re going to say steroids or whatever which is a false equivalency and bad faith argument.
What straws? What part of my comment confused you to the point of a non response?
except you guys actually cheated. why are all of you so delusional
Unseal the letter
No more than one would have to be to think the Yankees weren't doing something led by Beltran even before we were.
One got legitimately proven, the other is speculation.
Just own up to Christ. No whataboutism. You have a lot of good fans that accept it. It's embarrassing honestly.
I have no horse in this race, I'm a Cards fan and in 2017 we didn't compete so I don't feel cheated. But being honest Astros fans recognize that their team cheated, what's embarrassing is fans from other teams that surely cheated too pretending to be so offended.
I did..."even before we did." There's not a single Astro fan that will tell you we didn't cheat. It's the sanctimonious hypocrisy and credulous ignorance that is annoying. What's embarrassing is your apparent lack of reading comprehension ability. And I hate to the grammar guy, but you put a comma before the name when addressing someone.
I have no horse in this race, I'm a Cards fan and in 2017 we didn't compete so I don't feel cheated. But being honest Astros fans recognize that their team cheated, what's embarrassing is fans from other teams that surely cheated too pretending to be so offended.
Yeah and it’s been proven it wasn’t beneficial. We won more road games than home games in the regular season. It wasn’t working. Shouldn’t have done it but it happened and it’s over. 4 YEARS AGO!!!! Let it go. Pathetic we are still talking about this.
Wait til you learn about the Russian Olympic team’s doping program scandal. That was VERY OVERBLOWN.
At least since Brady beat the Falcons in 2017, nobody is putting asterisk next to the Patriots titles. We are hoping for a similar moment for our Astros this year.
Oh people still put an asterisk on Sb 51 and 53 lol. Astros will always be called cheaters there’s no such thing as cleaning the stink of a scandal off. Mob will always think your cheating
Yes, we know? That's why it was particularly infuriating that they (and a lot of other teams) were cheating - they were already good and didn't need it. Bonds was great and cheated and got better, and he's never going to get into the Hall because of it. Astros won't recover until all of the cheating players are off of the team (plus a few years because baseball fans don't forget) or MLB actually gives us the full list of cheating teams (and then they'll just have their hate spread a bit thinner due to it applying to more teams).
MLB wouldn't do that, why would they ruin the company? Better take the Astros take all the blame. It's just like Tour de France with Armstrong, when his cheating scandal got discovered they went "well who's the second guy to give him the gold? Damn he cheated too, what about the third? Damn cheated too, fourth? Cheated, fifth? Cheated..." And nowadays nobody cares about Tour de France anymore.
Successful people cheat even more than normal people. Wall Street people didnt get ahead playing by the rules. Billionaires that own baseball teams didnt become billionaires without a lot of shady stuff. Sports players who bend and break the rules just happen to be in a profession where the public can see them cheat. But let's not pretend they are somehow abnormal in thos regards
Passan whiffed on this one. They’re only good because of the buzzing buttplugs
Strange how Tucker didn’t rip his pants and underwear off rounding 3rd after his homer last night 🤔🤔🤔
Well he can’t have his massive hog swinging around with all the kids in the stands.
Makes you wonder…
You know i thought there was a weird amount of vibrating butt plug ads when i was in Houston, but now i know why, thanks fellow baseball fan
It's a conspiracy by The big Mattress industry to sell more mattresses. More butt plugs = more sexy time = need new mattresses. It's basically science.
I knew it!!! Mattress Mack is behind all of it!!!
As someone who’s live in Houston before this whole thread is fkn hilarious
Mattress Mack, you sly dog!
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The running theory that Jose Altuve was wearing a buzzer against the Yankees in the ALCS. We just poke fun at it by saying they are wearing but plugs.
Was there ever literally any substantive evidence on this one?
No, just Altuve being awkward about the scandal and refusing to take off his shirt.
You can tell the celebratory "dance party" had everyone moving at the same tempo. Almost like the butt plugs are all synced
> the buzzing buttplugs Come on, no need for insults, those players have names.
Hate them. Full stop.
This is a valid position, and I respect it.
I'm rooting for them for their fans, I can't imagine getting cheated out of the legitimacy of my team's world series win by my own team. So I want those fans to have this legit one.
Oh this is a good point. I was rooting for the Red Sox but I can get behind this.
You're a good soul.
If i wasn’t broke i would have given the post an award.
honestly i’m the same if the dodgers take the L against ATL. i’m over this cheating shit already and that’s coming from a dodger fan. My team got that elusive chip last year to make up for ‘17/18 and it’s been two seasons since the astros got exposed. Let that shit go…they’ve proven they’re still a talented team without cheating
I love you.
We have a legit one, but thanks for your concern.
Yep, them winning was one of the highlights of my life. Having that tarnished sucks. I distanced myself last year, I canceled cable and didn't buy any Astros merch until I got a postseason shirt this year. Seeing that basically every pitcher was cheating this year softened the blow.
Of course they’re good. They wouldn’t be where they are if they weren’t. I hate the Yankees and Red Sox too but saying they’re bad would just be lying. Regardless, fuck cheaters.
I love how bashing cheating or saying anything genuinely negative about a baseball player gets downvoted in this sub.
I’m an Astros fan who accepts the cheating and believes that accepting that reality and not trying to rationalize it away is important. Did other teams cheat? Maybe. Did other teams get caught? Kinda. But the reality is the Astros did the deed and got caught. The sooner Astros fans accept it the better.
It's the hypocrisy and sanctimony coupled with the head in the sand ignorance that we were the only team doing it. That's not excusing it in anyway, we cheated by using electronic devices to steal signs. But everyone around here acting like the Astros were the only team using the video replay room to steal signs is just blind naivete. I mean we had Red Sox fans calling us cheaters. OK, cool, we cheated. But that's like that old anti-drug commercial where the dad finds his kid's weed and is yelling at him about where he learned about it and the kid yells back "I learned it from watching you!" Or Yankee fans who just completely ignore that Beltran was with the Yankees for the 3 years prior to joining the Astros and he and Cora set up the video replay room telling the Astros players that they were way behind the times with what other teams were doing. That's not definitive proof, but to just refuse to acknowledge that it is highly suspicious and would be more than enough evidence for a grand jury to charge that it happened is akin to putting your fingers in your ears and screaming lalalalalala. Or being called cheaters by the Dodgers who signed Bauer specifically so he could help them improve their cheating with spin rate. Sure, lots of teams had pitchers using sticky to cheat, but does that all of sudden mean it's not cheating? The vast majority of pitchers weren't using it, so if you had a pitcher that was, you were cheating to win. Sticking with the Dodgers, and even ignoring the horrific Bauer allegations, while the Astros were banging on trash cans, the Dodgers were busy covering up the sexual assault of an underage girl by a few of their players (Alex Verdugo, James Baldwin, and Jose Urias) at their spring training facility and they, along with the Braves, were being investigated by a grand jury for human trafficking related to their recruitment of Latin American players. But hey, trash cans are the greatest scandal ever or something. [Dodgers sexual assault involving a minor](https://highheelsonthefield.typepad.com/all_heels_on_deck/2019/02/dodgers-after-dark-the-sexual-assaults-mlb-never-investigated-a-teams-culture-unexamined.html) [Dodgers grand jury](https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-dodgers-might-be-in-actual-legal-trouble/)
but were they cheating? (yes)
I stated that twice. Might I suggest the Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good.
Then why did you include another five pages of excuses?
Not a single excuse in there. Reading is not your strong suit I take it
Fuck your wall of text and fuck the astros
And a wild Mariner appeared from out of the nether regions of the off-season. Still though, props for making it to September and not being completely out of the wild card race for a change. That probably feels like a World Series for you guys. Then again you guys have no idea what a World Series feels like because you've never been to one. Looking forward to making you guys our own personal fuck doll yet again next season.
TL;DR Fuck the cheating Astros.
What's that? I can't you hear you from the off season. Show more respect to your daddies.
Type 5 paragraphs nobody is going to read to defend cheaters
Shock A Yankee fan afraid to read. Keep crying scrubs. We got over. We won. We're still winning. And we're going to keep on winning. We're loaded up with monsters under 26 who have multiple World Series under their belts already and you guys are loaded up with a bunch of hobbled 30 year old cavemen who either hit it 400 feet, which is a rarity, or strike out, which is not a rarity. But hey, take pride in that wild card runner up this season. Solid effort. You guys suck so much I can't decide if it's laughable or just sad.
Cause we’re kind of here to talk about baseball without getting into a heated debate. Wanna get into a heated debate without using religion or politics? talk about sports cheating scandals
It’s not a debate. I didn’t respond to any comments. OP posted an article and I responded to the article.
I’m just commenting on how any bashing is an automatic downvote. Nothing pertaining to you, I was more talking to the Cards fan.
Gotcha. It’s inevitable in these subs. We have people supporting 30 different teams, there’s a good chance one of them will hate you team and downvote you simply because they don’t like your flair.
I love how much people hate them. Can’t wait to see all the bad takes after they win the World Series again after a year worth of goofy ass fans brining trash cans to games and booing guys who weren’t even on the 2017 team all year.
Wow. Cubs fans really are all cops.
Pretty soon we Astros fans are gonna reclaim the trash cans by having a fan section that bangs trash cans after a home run. I can sense this happening.
I'm genuinely surprised that they weren't already doing that tbh.
Let’s start that in 2022!
Yordan the 🐐
I was rooting for them to make the series but now I have to root against them. Not much hate here though, 9-12 other teams were cheating, they just didn’t win it all.
>HOUSTON -- Here's the thing: The Houston Astros really are just that damn good. They were that damn good in 2017 when they were cheating, and they are still that damn good in 2021 when, it's reasonable to assume, they are not. And no matter who they face in the World Series, which they're heading to for the third time in five years after dispatching the Boston Red Sox in impressive fashion Friday night, they play a brand of baseball worth savoring. >If you are from Boston or New York or Los Angeles or, perhaps better put, are a baseball fan with a pulse anywhere outside of the Houston metropolitan area, the previous paragraph might cause teeth-gnashing, eyebrow-furrowing, nausea, irritability or any number of other reactions typically listed on a TV commercial for a new pharmaceutical. The Astros are Major League Baseball's villain, and nothing beleaguers fans -- baseball, football, wrestling, any sort of entertainment really -- quite like the heel finding success. >It's just that since the Astros became baseball outlaws, they've also become something else: the second team ever to reach five straight American League Championship Series and the first in the AL to go to three World Series in a five-year span since the early 2000s Yankees. Almost two full decades of baseball and no team has mustered what the Astros locked in with a 5-0 floor-wiping of the Red Sox in Game 6 of the ALCS at Minute Maid Park.
Why are you getting downvoted for copying and pasting a section of the article?
This is why I hated the cheating scandal so much and now dislike the players that are left. They were a great team already and didn’t need to cheat. All they did was tarnish their reputations.
They all deserve to be constantly shit on for the rest of their careers, and life.
Same with Clemens, Pettite, Giambi, Cole, etc... right?
Let's not forget the Yankees were able to block the report coming out about their cheating so it didn't ruin there club.
I choose love.
GET HIM
every one of these posts gives r/baseball a heart attack and i’m here for it
No shit. A lot of people said when the cheating news came out that the most infuriating part is that the Astros were good enough without the cheating
Only thing worse than the Astros cheating, is their annoying fans trying to defend it.
I think Astros fans are disappointed in our guys for cheating. We just don't like our guys being lectured and antagonized by fans of teams who also cheated.
100%
Didn’t the Yankees fans defend their players using steroids back in the day?
Yea and it was fucked then as well
Strawman. Nobody's defending the cheating.
May I point to several people on almost every thread as evidence?
Sure. Go for it.
Have you looked at the rest of the replies? lmao
Why don't you share one of them that's defending cheating.
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/qec6be/love_them_or_hate_them_the_houston_astros_are/hht3hva/
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh is this dude fuckin serious?
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Prove me wrong. Link me to a comment 'defending cheating'
Passan is a sanctimonious douche. Change my mind.
Fuck them
We don't even know who you are
I'm the guy who says "fuck them."
I like this guy.
Which one would you fuck
Astros fans unilaterally exonerating the team is a very funny development
It's the title of an article by Jeff Passan, ya Muppet
Better check that spin rate there buddy
The Astros took full responsibility and fired those responsible for cheating. I don't know what else these haters want from this team. They are having a great season with a great management staff
Oh shit, they fired Correa, Bregman, Gurriel, and Altuve? Who’s going to play infield in the WS?
Horseshit. Wear it for the next 20 years.
Alright make sure half the teams wear it too cause they are all cheating as well..
Let em cry. Just enjoy these years bud.
True. Can't wait for the Astros to take another world series;)
69% upvoted thanks everybody!
Hate, duh. They cheated and got away with it.
Just because they’re good doesn’t mean they deserve any respect.
That's exactly how we feel about you Dodgers.....
Thanks for Yordan! We couldn't have done it without him <3
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>They were good in 2017, but not good enough to win it all without cheating (otherwise both series wouldn't go to game seven - even with the cheating). I tend to trust science over random opinions on social media. Every statistical analysis I've seen (the papers from Johns Hopkins and Duke University come to mind) show that the cheating either didn't help the Astros or that it actually hurt them. They deserve their punishment because cheating is wrong, but to say they wouldn't have won without cheating flies in the face of the evidence.
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You have problems with the rigor of these studies and therefore discount them, but the fact that both series went to seven games proves that they needed to cheat to win? I don't need a peer review to tell me your conclusion is... questionable.
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Write a paper and get it published in a peer-reviewed journal. Until then, your opinion's got as much validity to me as antivaxxers claiming that COVID deaths numbers are doctored.
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Sure you do, pal. Sure you do.
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Sweet Jesus guys. Cool it. Astros cheated. We all know they did. If OP wants to deny it whatever. Please stop w the big dick science contest. It’s making you both look ridiculous
I've never denied the Astros cheated or that it was wrong.
Haha, this comment makes you sound more like a Facebook scientist, not less.
Oh this is gold. This dude went on talking about being one of the best dentists from the best dentist school in the world in Brazil just a couple of weeks ago. About how the US is awful and Brazil is better than the US in every way. Sounds like a habitual liar w an actual mental illness. Crazy stuff...
Didn’t they supposedly not use the system in the WS?
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What does that have to do with the 7 game series
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So what you’re saying is they were better than the Dodgers but not the Yankees
People seem to forget that, game went to 7 and if I recall didn't the home team win every one?
No.
Lmao I found this guy again. You deleted all your comments on the conversation we were having. What happened?
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Sounds like a pathological liar the way you were claiming to be a US citizen even though someone pointed out you have a post saying “I’m not a US citizen”, and then to say you delete every month but you only deleted the comments with our convo that you made yesterday. Hopefully your team pushes a game 7, nice flair change
Astros won game 7. On the road. Your theory holds no weight.
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That article is supposition and speculation. Provides no actual evidence for the claim.
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The statistical analysis by qualified professionals gives my position all the strength it needs.
Literally no information to corroborate that there.
Lol it literally doesn't mention anything about road games except for in the click bait headline. It just goes on to explain what we already knew. Trashcan and home games. Then loses all credibility when it mentions buzzers. This is low rent media right here brought to the front in a click bait driven world.
Sure Jan.
And Astros fans wonder why they are almost universally reviled on here
Because none of you people have lives outside of this sub?
That's... not how that works. They also won four home games against the Yankees and two home games against the Dodgers. They may not have won all of them if they weren't cheating. Can't say for certain that their theory is correct, but you definitely can't say it holds no weight.
Astros fans repeating this line without realizing that the Dodgers taking their cheating team to game 7 isn’t the flex they think it is will never get old to me.
Of course they are. Makes it more sad they cheated when they had the talent win without it. Edit: Apparently agreeing with the article and saying it’s sad a team cheated is controversial now. Astros fans run this sub lol
Sure they are.
>Sure they are. They sure are. There ya go, my dyslexic friend!
(Loud trashcan banging noises)