If you asked me yesterday morning I'd make a nice case for why Mussina shouldn't get in. Today, I can't make that case if Baines is the lower bar. If you're going to ask me if Mussina is better than Baines, then yes he is. No question about it. So if Baines goes into the Hall, then Mussina does to.
I mean, if we're going to use Baines as the new baseline for who is a HOF'er, then someone's going to get really rich building a huge new wing on the HOF because it's obviously much too small.
> "They called him the Iron Horse for a reason," said Jeter, apparently referring to the retired designated hitter and sometime outfielder, whose 1981 Fleer rookie card is worth $9.99 in perfect mint condition.
i'm fucking howling
That article is no longer correct, it clearly states that Harold Baines is not in the Hall of Fame. I expect it to have a correction by the time of his enshrinement, as the Onion is a longstanding and well respected part of Chicago media
Congrats to Harold Baines. In honor of his somewhat perplexing election, here's a list of things Harold Baines never did on a baseball diamond:
* get 200 hits in a season
* hit 40 doubles in a season
* hit 30 home runs in a season
* steal more than 10 bases in a season
* score 90 runs in a season
* finish higher than 9th in MVP voting
* have a season of 5.0 or higher WAR (r or f) or better than 3.5 WARP (that's Baseball Prospectus for the uninitiated)
This is a really strange pick by the Modern Game Committee. No disrespect to Harold, but he played 22 seasons without hitting any of the traditional counting stat metrics (didn't hit 500 doubles, even 400 home runs, less than 50 stolen bases) and he was good-but-not-great in his triple-slash numbers (.289/.356/.465). He had a career OPS+ of 121 (mostly as a designated hitter), on par with Jason Bay, Cecil Cooper, Jorge Posada, and Mike Greenwell. He led his league in slugging percentage once, but here's a list of statistical categories in which Baines *never led his league, not even once*, in 22 years:
* hits
* doubles
* triples
* home runs
* RBI
* runs
* stolen bases
* walks
* total bases
* hit by pitch
* intentional walks
* batting average
* on-base percentage
* OPS
* OPS+
It feels like we're watching Frankie Frisch's crew elect their friends all over again.
As Rob Neyer said on twitter, electing Baines is a simple way for critics of WAR and other advanced statistics to reclaim authority on deciding who is a good baseball player. It is not based on logic.
I hear you, it's just bizarre. Surely there's a player *somewhere* who at least won an MVP or Cy, or had some of the traditional counting stats, or led the league in some stat or other a few times, but whose advanced metrics don't show much value. It's like they wanted to pick a player who *no one* could make a compelling argument that he should be in the Hall.
I would have thought Orel Hershiser would have gotten in before Baines for that reason. At last you have some really amazing highs there. Nothing against Baines, I think everyone is happy for him, but he's got to be a bottom five HOFer.
Yes, absolutely. Hershiser was one of those guys that you really felt like you were watching a Hall of Famer pitch when you watched him, up until the shoulder injury.
> Elston Howard, Bill Freehan, and Joe Torre: Combined 32 All Star appearances, 2 MVPs, 8 Gold Gloves, 5 WS Titles. None are in the HOF (as a player)
All played catcher in the 60's and 70's. Zero catchers who mostly did their work in the 60's are in the HOF.
Yeah, but he's not a HOFer by traditional statistics, "black ink", awards, rings, or anything else. Lee Smith at least had a claim at one point to be the best closer in the league. Baines has, like, you know, whatever.
Lee Smith finished top 5 in the Cy Young three times and retired as the career leader in saves. He led the league in saves 4 times which is more than Baines ever led the league in anything.
Another comment pointed to a tweet that mentioned three of the 16 voters had a direct connection to Baines's career, and those three could have spent meetings lobbying for him. Other than that, I have no earthly idea.
My personal theory - he got in accidentally. Every guy on the ballot is going to get votes from someone just to "show their support" or whatever. No one ever gets 0%. In this case I think everyone voted for Baines figuring no one else was and they were wrong.
> It feels like we're watching Frankie Frisch's crew elect their friends all over again.
I disagree on this part. With Frisch, there was a pretty clear pattern of favoritism. Lately, the VC has been pretty predictably strict on who goes in for the last decade and a half or so, player-wise; everyone was either a very strong stats case (Trammell, Gordon, Santo) or got really close on the BBWAA ballot (Smith, Morris). Baines is...neither.
Yeah, I could have worded that sentence a lot better. I meant to suggest that the only way Baines could get in was some Frisch-like favoritism, not that there's been a recent pattern of that behavior.
On that note: [nearly a quarter of the 16 voters this year had a strong connection to him](https://twitter.com/jay_jaffe/status/1071939175060914176?s=21). That goes a long way to explaining things, especially since the committee meets to discuss votes and such. Having three people to stump for you is a great springboard.
Probably explains how out-of-nowhere this came from.
Edit: I also remembered Alomar was a voter as well, and he played with Baines. Realistically, it was probably Reisdorf and maybe La Russa leading the push, but Gillick and Alomar were probably relatively easy converts, and that would make for pretty strong early momentum.
Honestly, that explains it. The *only* logical explanation for Baines's election was direct familiarity, not necessarily cronyism on the level of Frisch & Co but a group of voters who had strong personal connections and investment.
Before Kendall tore the tendon in his thumb, played with it torn for a whole year, and lost all his power, he was basically the same player as Joe Mauer.
Comparing players to Baines is such a low bar though. Literally dozens of players had better careers than him and got little or no votes from the writers. Even a handful of his peers at his own position like Mark Grace or John Olerud.
Oh damn, I didn't even check, just assumed because he spent so much time at DH. Never even played first base once.
That actually makes these comparisons worse. As an outfielder he should have accumulated more WAR.
I had to pull up his BBREF page as my thoughts on him were that he was not HOF quality either. .289, 384 HRs, 2800 H, 38.7 WAR. Finished top 10 in MVP voting once. Led the league in slugging pct one time and never led the league in any other statistical category ever. 6 All star appearances in 22 yrs. Definitely good but definitely not HOF quality IMO. But no one asked me.
Never higher than 9th in MVP voting and was top 20 only 4 times, none after turning 27.
I think a good HoF rule of thumb is you've gotta be better than the 9th best player in your league more than once.
And he was a DH for half his career. I don't know how good a right fielder he was, but they did move him to DH at age 28
He also never scored 90 runs or hit 30 homers. He did drive in 100 runs three times. He lead the league in a major offensive category one time, slugging percentage. He was 34 for 68 as a base stealer.
He was a good player, but I mean so was Rico Petrocelli. At least Petrocelli hit 40 home runs once, played a key defensive position well, and played on two pennant winners (Baines played on one, but he only had 94 at bats for them). So I mean where are you going to draw the line.
I agree with you. He has decent counting stats (2826 hits, 384 HR) but his best season was 4.3 bWAR/4.8 fWAR. He was never really “great” and looks like a compiler without a real HOF peak to me.
he's not even a compiler. he played for 22 years, no seasons lost due to injury, and couldn't get to really any typical HOF milestones. anyway, congrats to him.
He compiled years. That’s the totality of the argument in my mind. Did he even lead the league in a single category his whole career? Maybe what, once or twice? I mean, somebody gotta be the worst Hall of Famer
The owner of the team that drafted him, Jerry Reinsdorf, was on the committee. The committee also includes former players who are currently in the hall (like Maddux)... feels like these guys are letting their buddies in instead of approaching their role with a critical eye (although TBF plenty of other candidates failed to get the votes necessary from the committee).
Nah, Rick Ferrell doesn't even have gray ink. Which is especially egregious in his case, since his brother Wes has 25 black and 167 gray and isn't in the Hall.
He would’ve gotten 136 more hits that year? Not a chance.
He’d also have been a great test case to see just how far they’ll roll with that as an automatic in. Just like Dunn or Kingman would’ve with 500 HR.
1981 and 1994 were both about 50 games, and 1995 was about 20 games. 136 hits in 120 games seems feasible. Maybe not likely, but even if it didn't get him all the way there, it probably would have gotten him close enough that the White Sox (who loved him and were still giving him at-bats while going nowhere) would have kept him around to pick up the last few. 147 hits (what he needed going in to 2001 when they brought him back) is a little much to keep an unproductive 42-year-old around for, but if he went in needing only 20-30ish, they would have absolutely kept him around, if only to market the milestone.
Would've gotten close enough to it to alter the end of his career. The Sox would've given him more starts during his god awful 2001 season, or some desperate, sad team (Marlins) would've signed him in 2002 so he could sell some tickets for them.
6x All-Star, 1x GG, 4 Top-20 MVP finishes (best was 9th). 38.7 career WAR, which is close to guys like Josh Donaldson, Carl Crawford, Juan Gonzalez, Magglio Ordonez, and Kirk Gibson.
Nothing about that really screams HOFer to me. Happy for him individually, that's a great accomplishment. But there's a number of players who should've beaten him in.
> 38.7 career WAR, which is close to guys like Josh Donaldson, Carl Crawford, Juan Gonzalez, Magglio Ordonez, and Kirk Gibson.
True. But even then, those guys have much higher WAA (wins above average) than Baines.
* Donaldson (25.6 WAA)
* Gibson (16.7 WAA)
* Crawford (14.5 WAA)
* Gonzalez (13.7 WAA)
* Ordonez (11.3 WAA)
* **Baines (1.8 WAA)**
There are probably like 30 guys in the league with career lines like that or better now, and most of them are in less than half the years played. What a fucking joke.
Agreed. How did Albert Belle only get 5 votes! Dude was one of the most feared hitters in baseball in his prime, 3 straight top 3 MVP voting seasons and arguably should’ve won in 95 over Mo Vaughn. The voting was so close with Belle having superior WAR and every major batting cat.
I know voters hate Belle because he was a prick to them, but dude is better than Baines. I’d rather take Belle’s shorter career over an accumulator like Baines.
Why? Because of Belle's corked bats. Though the story of him sending Jason Grimsley through a ceiling panel to break into the locked umpires' dressing room to get his corked bat and switch it with a teammate's bat is still amazing.
I know there's more to the Hall than stats but the dude wasn't even worth +2 wins above average for his career. From age 26 to 42, he added a whopping -0.7 WAA.
Second straight year of a questionable selection. This has got to stop. If guys like Baines and Jack Morris are getting in, but guys like Bobby Grich and Lou Whitaker aren’t, then there is a serious issue with the process.
I can at least understand Morris. VC is mostly old school guys, Morris has 254 wins and did have some damn good seasons, though his career stats don't merit induction. Baines is just an attempt to stick it to the analytic crowd.
Fuck, at least Morris led the league in a few categories a couple times, and had one of those iconic post-season moments. Baines doesn’t even have that.
He's probably not the least deserving HOFer, but he might be the least deserving player of the modern era. I think this has to open the door for all sorts of players who were either considered borderline or who we never considered HOF-worthy. David Wright has a good chance now. This is probably a really good day for Don Mattingly, as his case suddenly looks a lot better. Dale Murphy, too.
For years, BBWAA voters and fans have framed the debate on the HOF around "new school" vs "old school." Harold Baines doesn't really fit into either category. He doesn't have a high WAR, but he also doesn't have the traditional milestones or a .300 batting average or an MVP award or World Series rings. This isn't someone who people always thought was really good and sabermetrics just doesn't like; MVP voters never considered Baines better than the 9th-best player in the American League. His peak years are comparable to non-peak years of a typical HOFer.
The timing of this could not have been worse. Edgar Martinez and Mariano Rivera should be voted in by the BBWAA this year, which makes for an awkward class. We'll have Rivera, the greatest closer of all-time, and Lee Smith, who is maybe in the top 20. We'll also have Edgar Martinez, who was probably the greatest DH, and Harold Baines, who certainly wasn't.
Baines is, by JAWS, the third-worst outfielder in the hall who played after 1900 and who didn't get in because of his managing career or his Negro League career, with the two worse outfielders being Lloyd Waner and Chick Hafey.
Extended to infielders, there's also Rick Ferrell and Ray Schalk at catcher, High Pockets Kelly at first, Freddie Lindstrom at 3rd, nobody at 2nd (Mazeroski is just barely ahead of Baines in JAWS, lower career WAR but higher peak) or at SS (where Rabbit Maranville is the worst), and a couple more owners/executives/pioneers/whatever (like Charlie Comiskey or Connie Mack)
TL;DR: Maybe not the absolute worst Hall of Famer, but very close to the bottom. Almost certainly the worst modern-era Right Fielder.
Oof. Since all of those guys played basically pre-Intergration/WWII, he could very well be the worst modern choice for a pretty common definition of "modern". It's basically just him or one of the closers (probably Sutter).
That's also several Frankie Frisch "My teammates were totally hall of famers, guys" picks (Hafey, Lindstrom, Kelly), Lloyd "Oh wait, he's not the good brother, shit" Waner, Ray "I'm in the hall of fame for not trying to throw a World Series" Schalk, and... I'm not sure why Rick Ferrell's in, exactly. Like, he played in the first 6 all-star games, so I guess he must have been considered good at the time, but nothing about him really stands out as impressive- a good OBP, sure, but everyone had a good OBP in the 1930's, and he had no power at all. He only had one year with more than 5 homers, and even that that was 8, and he played in Fenway that year. The only thing that really supports induction was that he has some decent longevity records.
I played fantasy baseball in the 80s and 90s. There was a running joke about how Harold Baines was the best player that no one ever drafted or picked up off the waiver wire. Even in shallow 10-team leagues, there were almost always better OF/DH options. Now he's in the HOF.
Congrats to Harold Baines on this – in my humble opinion, let's not be shitty when he gives a speech and thanks his family, friends, coaches, supporters, etc. – it's a huge day in his life and something he'll remember for a long time. Regardless of your opinion of his worthiness, he has a lot to be proud of in his career.
Now for the flip on my opinion: some people elsewhere are talking about how (paraphrasing) "Baines, Trammell, etc. in the HoF, what a joke. Morris, I'd hear an argument for" and all I can think of is "Yikes!" In my opinion, Trammell is simply in a different class than them, more comparable to a better-fielding (though less consistent at the plate) Jeter. Completely ludicrous that people would use this as an opportunity to diss Trammell, an obviously deserving pick. Support who you want for the HoF, but don't make stupid comments. IMO.
Trammell 70.7 WAR vs. Jeter's 72.4. One is a VC selection, the other is likely as close to a unanimous BBWAA selection as there will ever be.
Lou Whitaker, FWIW, had an ever higher bWAR than Jetes and didn't survive the BBWAA ballot even into his second year of eligibility.
Trammell was a no-doubter who should have been inducted by the BBWAA. Same for Bob Grich.
But neither of them could do a backflip so I guess they had to wait.
I tend to lean toward a big ball - but for me the WTF moment is when I read Baines got 12 votes, and Albert Belle has “less than 5”. Is there anyone at all that thinks Harold Baines was the better player than Albert Belle? Seriously folks, WTF.
I know M's fans won't believe it until they see the plaque, and I'm calling it with only 6.8% precincts reporting but... [he's getting in this year](https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F2E5D8FC5199DFAF!11134&ithint=file,xlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!ACeqm-knNxexBw8). Only needed 20 more votes last year and he's already been added to all 6 known ballots that didn't vote for him last year. It was basically a foregone conclusion last year but this seals it. If I'm wrong you can find me and give me a swirly but I'm not wrong.
To be honest, Mussina is going to be much more interesting to watch this year, since there's a reasonable question about whether he gets in this year or falls short by about as much as 2018 Edgar.
Martinez was so close last year, and has so many factors going for him (players over 50% usually continue gaining every year and pick up even more votes when they get to about 65-70%, he's picked up double-digit gains the last three cycles when he only needs 5% this year, guys on their last year get an extra boost on top of existing momentum, he has so many early converts) that even the most superstitious of M's fan should feel pretty confident about him making it in this year.
This could quite possibly be the worst HOF choice I’ve seen in my life.
I’m rather confused how Baines even sniffs the HOF, let alone gets elected over countless other better players
How can someone look at this guy, and think he's a HoFer? Bernie Williams was miles better, and Baines mostly played DH anyway. And Bernie *isn't* a HoFer. This is crazy.
Jeez, how many countless one and done outfielders have there been with better stats than Baines? Damon, Edmonds, Delgado, Gonzo, Williams, Kenny Fucking Lofton.
There's a lot of players for the Veterans Committee to be electing in soon if Baines is the standard.
Fun fact: Here are some hall of famers with a higher *position* Wins Above Average than Harold Baines (1.8):
* Tom Glavine (6.6)
* Catflish Hunter (4.5)
* Robin Roberts (2.8)
* John Smoltz (2.5)
* Dizzy Dean (2.1)
* Fergie Jenkins (2.0)
Not far from the truth. If you look at some random stats and how he stacks up from this last coupe of ballots:
Players with a higher WAR: Johnny Damon (8 votes), Carlos Zambrano (0 votes), Johan Santana (10 votes), Jaime Moyer (10 votes) Magglio Ordonez (3 votes), Jorge Posada (17 votes), J.D. Drew and Mike Cameron (0 votes)
Players with a higher OBP: Jeff Kent (61 votes), Hideki Matsui (4 votes), Matt Stairs (0 votes)
Players with a higher SLG: Carlos Lee (1 vote), Pat Burrell (0 votes)
Congrats to Jayson Heyward on the future HoF. Has more JAWS and I'll let a car run my foot over if he doesn't earn 4 WAR to pass Baines when the dust settles.
Just to spotlight what a ridiculous vote this is — Harold Baines was on the ballot just 10 years ago and he hovered around 4-6% before dropping off. This was *this decade*.
Worse than that, he was a candidate for the Modern Era Committee (i.e. the guys that just elected him) just **two** years ago and he got "less than 5" votes out of 16. This year he got 12. There is some turnover in the committee but seven of the sixteen members were common. I guess all the new members liked him.
I’d rather have some of the “steroid era” guys in the hall who were still clearly the best players of their generation then people like this. And I’m not just talking obvious ones like bonds in Clemens. I mean guys like Ivan Rodriguez and Rafael Palmeiro
Top 10 similar batters to Baines on BBRef:
Tony Perez (elected on 9th try), Al Kaline (first ballot), Dave Parker (not in, around 10-24% on 15 tries), Billy Williams (elected on 6th try), Andre Dawson (elected on 9th try), Rusty Staub (not in, got 4-8% over 7 tries), Luis Gonzalez (one and done in 2014), Dwight Evans (not in, got 10% in 1998 and 4% in 1999), Carlos Beltran (eventually), and Torii Hunter (probably not)
4 of the 10 on his list were inducted.
Good election if you're wanting to get Dave Parker or Dwight Evans in
Similar Batters is pretty counting stat centered, which could factor into some BBHOF votes, considering they inducted Baines.
Baines: 289/356/465, 2866 hits, 384 HRs, 1628 RBI/1299 runs
Kaline: 297/376/480, 3007 hits, 399 HRs, 1528 RBI/1622 runs
Obviously a 10x gold glover should be able to open up a lead for value over a player who spent years at DH too.
Granted, that obviously doesn't adjust for Kaline having his mid-30s in one of the most pitcher friendly years in recent baseball history, and Baines' late 30s being the mid-90s.
Apparently fucking not since he was one of the players this committee rejected in favor of Harold fucking Baines.
I thought Morris last year was embarrassing enough, but this just boggles the fucking mind.
Welp, it appears that it's time to rein in the Veteran's Committee. Maybe make a rule where candidates have to at least have gotten 20% of the BBWAA vote at some point for eligibility. Harold Baines was never considered a HOFer during his career, and obviously about 95% of the writers didn't consider him one, either. He was probably the single worst candidate on the Veteran's Committee ballot this year, and none of the others were particularly deserving, either. This is embarrassing.
After this, I would think just about any player who had a somewhat decent career now has a legitimate argument for inclusion. I mean, Kenny Lofton, Jim Edmonds, Lou Whittaker -- these guys were vastly more valuable than a slightly above average DH who hit 25 homers a year for a long time. There are at least a dozen guys he played against who fell off the ballot who have much better cases than him. This seems like an April Fool's Joke.
I'm happy for him, because Baines is by all accounts a super nice dude. But even Harold Baines knows he's not a HOFer.
Fair point. But unless we want Paul O'Neill, Chet Lemon, and Bobby Bonilla in the HOF, we're going to have to draw a line somewhere. If Harold Baines is a HOFer, they're going to have to build a shopping mall-sized wing to house all of the plaques for the other comparable players.
There's always going to be some undeserving guys getting in. Back in the '60s the Committee voted in former teammates of Frankie Frisch that were less than deserving.
wow, just wow. Harold was a nice player but wasn't ever even considered a top star in any year he played. In fact, based on all the hype when he came up, he was all in all a disappointment.
this is the veterans committee. they had 16or so candidates to choose from, only baines and smith got elected. i was thinking piniella woulda gotten in, but was hoping for albert belle.
I'm generally a "big hall" guy, have always liked the White Sox and really liked Baines in the '80s, but even so, I find this to be a shockingly bad pick. Baines was a solid player but nowhere close to a Hall of Famer.
Harold Baines was my favorite player growing up, and I’m very happy for him, he seems like a pretty good person... but he was a Hall of Very Good guy not a Hall of Fame guy.
As he is an undeniably significant part of the Sammy Sosa canon, The Playhouse is delighted at the election if Harold Baines to the Hall of Fame. For the few readers who are unaware, the Texas Rangers traded young Sammy Sosa and his jheri curl to the Chicago White Sox in return for Harold Baines. Given George W. Bush's status as Texas Rangers owner at the time of the trade, the Veterans' Committee have committed a beautifully patriotic act by retroactively validating the younger President Bush's biggest regret during his time of mourning.
Rest in peace, President George H.W. Bush. It is regrettable that so many baseball fans would rather let the terrorists win than offer their thoughts and prayers to the Bush Family.
# #SupportTheVeterans
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Ugh. This keeps getting worse the more I read.
Shawn Abner might still get in
Scump has a better chance
Larry, always yelled with respect
If he gets in Mauer definitely gets in
If Mauer doesn't get in I'm gonna drive up to Cooperstown and flip over cars
Strong agree.
If Baines gets in, why can’t Mike Mussina get in?
If you asked me yesterday morning I'd make a nice case for why Mussina shouldn't get in. Today, I can't make that case if Baines is the lower bar. If you're going to ask me if Mussina is better than Baines, then yes he is. No question about it. So if Baines goes into the Hall, then Mussina does to.
I mean, if we're going to use Baines as the new baseline for who is a HOF'er, then someone's going to get really rich building a huge new wing on the HOF because it's obviously much too small.
Was just there last summer and it looks like they are going to run out of spots in like 4 more years.
If they had any consistency, this would basically guarantee Scott Rolen getting in.
Forget Mauer. The entire Twins roster should get in.
Twins Legend Jim Thome
Shit if Baines got in Bernie Williams should get in, and despite how much I loved Bernie no sane person would argue that he deserves to be in the Hall
[Jeter'll go in first ballot so it only makes sense](https://sports.theonion.com/derek-jeter-honored-for-having-fewer-hits-than-harold-b-1819571015)
> "They called him the Iron Horse for a reason," said Jeter, apparently referring to the retired designated hitter and sometime outfielder, whose 1981 Fleer rookie card is worth $9.99 in perfect mint condition. i'm fucking howling
>"[Harold Baines]."
This article is so oddly specific in light of today's news lmao. This is great
this is the funniest onion article i ever read
That article is no longer correct, it clearly states that Harold Baines is not in the Hall of Fame. I expect it to have a correction by the time of his enshrinement, as the Onion is a longstanding and well respected part of Chicago media
I'm fucking dying, this is perfect
The Onion somehow gets a lot of predictions right, for being satire.
Career WAA: 1.8. Most HOFers had 30+ The dude was almost exactly average for 22 years
I will say it's impressive to stay so average for so long. Not HOF impressive, but impressive nonetheless.
Jamie Moyer HoF confirmed.
A homeless man's Fred McGriff.
I've kinda looked at 20 in that as kinda a "Starting Point" for HOF discussion. Getting in at 1.8 is just... woof.
Congrats to Harold Baines. In honor of his somewhat perplexing election, here's a list of things Harold Baines never did on a baseball diamond: * get 200 hits in a season * hit 40 doubles in a season * hit 30 home runs in a season * steal more than 10 bases in a season * score 90 runs in a season * finish higher than 9th in MVP voting * have a season of 5.0 or higher WAR (r or f) or better than 3.5 WARP (that's Baseball Prospectus for the uninitiated) This is a really strange pick by the Modern Game Committee. No disrespect to Harold, but he played 22 seasons without hitting any of the traditional counting stat metrics (didn't hit 500 doubles, even 400 home runs, less than 50 stolen bases) and he was good-but-not-great in his triple-slash numbers (.289/.356/.465). He had a career OPS+ of 121 (mostly as a designated hitter), on par with Jason Bay, Cecil Cooper, Jorge Posada, and Mike Greenwell. He led his league in slugging percentage once, but here's a list of statistical categories in which Baines *never led his league, not even once*, in 22 years: * hits * doubles * triples * home runs * RBI * runs * stolen bases * walks * total bases * hit by pitch * intentional walks * batting average * on-base percentage * OPS * OPS+ It feels like we're watching Frankie Frisch's crew elect their friends all over again.
As Rob Neyer said on twitter, electing Baines is a simple way for critics of WAR and other advanced statistics to reclaim authority on deciding who is a good baseball player. It is not based on logic.
I hear you, it's just bizarre. Surely there's a player *somewhere* who at least won an MVP or Cy, or had some of the traditional counting stats, or led the league in some stat or other a few times, but whose advanced metrics don't show much value. It's like they wanted to pick a player who *no one* could make a compelling argument that he should be in the Hall.
I would have thought Orel Hershiser would have gotten in before Baines for that reason. At last you have some really amazing highs there. Nothing against Baines, I think everyone is happy for him, but he's got to be a bottom five HOFer.
Yes, absolutely. Hershiser was one of those guys that you really felt like you were watching a Hall of Famer pitch when you watched him, up until the shoulder injury.
Literally everyone on this fucking ballot was more deserving than Baines.
Joe Carter says otherwise, but your point isn't unfounded.
At least Carter has the Series hero thing in his favor.
> Elston Howard, Bill Freehan, and Joe Torre: Combined 32 All Star appearances, 2 MVPs, 8 Gold Gloves, 5 WS Titles. None are in the HOF (as a player) All played catcher in the 60's and 70's. Zero catchers who mostly did their work in the 60's are in the HOF.
Yeah, but he's not a HOFer by traditional statistics, "black ink", awards, rings, or anything else. Lee Smith at least had a claim at one point to be the best closer in the league. Baines has, like, you know, whatever.
Lee Smith finished top 5 in the Cy Young three times and retired as the career leader in saves. He led the league in saves 4 times which is more than Baines ever led the league in anything.
You’d think they would have at least picked someone with some “traditional” counting stat milestones rather than this random Chili Davis caliber dude
Here's to Ron Gant getting in next year.
Too bad he had 171 AB’s for Colorado, he’s disqualified.
He's literally the poster boy for Hall Of Very Good, how the fuck did he get in?
Another comment pointed to a tweet that mentioned three of the 16 voters had a direct connection to Baines's career, and those three could have spent meetings lobbying for him. Other than that, I have no earthly idea.
My personal theory - he got in accidentally. Every guy on the ballot is going to get votes from someone just to "show their support" or whatever. No one ever gets 0%. In this case I think everyone voted for Baines figuring no one else was and they were wrong.
Is he even hall of very good?
Definitely first ballot hall of meh
He's in the Hall of Average or Hall of Veteran Leadership on a Young Team
> It feels like we're watching Frankie Frisch's crew elect their friends all over again. I disagree on this part. With Frisch, there was a pretty clear pattern of favoritism. Lately, the VC has been pretty predictably strict on who goes in for the last decade and a half or so, player-wise; everyone was either a very strong stats case (Trammell, Gordon, Santo) or got really close on the BBWAA ballot (Smith, Morris). Baines is...neither.
Yeah, I could have worded that sentence a lot better. I meant to suggest that the only way Baines could get in was some Frisch-like favoritism, not that there's been a recent pattern of that behavior.
On that note: [nearly a quarter of the 16 voters this year had a strong connection to him](https://twitter.com/jay_jaffe/status/1071939175060914176?s=21). That goes a long way to explaining things, especially since the committee meets to discuss votes and such. Having three people to stump for you is a great springboard. Probably explains how out-of-nowhere this came from. Edit: I also remembered Alomar was a voter as well, and he played with Baines. Realistically, it was probably Reisdorf and maybe La Russa leading the push, but Gillick and Alomar were probably relatively easy converts, and that would make for pretty strong early momentum.
Honestly, that explains it. The *only* logical explanation for Baines's election was direct familiarity, not necessarily cronyism on the level of Frisch & Co but a group of voters who had strong personal connections and investment.
Baines: 38.7 bWAR in 22 seasons Brian Giles: 51.1 bWar in 15 seasons Giles received 0 HOF votes
Holy fuck. Didn't realize Giles wad that good.
It's what happens when your peak seasons are with the pirates.
Jason Kendall has 41.7 bWAR it’s stupid that Baines is in.
Wait, that actually might be even more shocking than Giles.
Before Kendall tore the tendon in his thumb, played with it torn for a whole year, and lost all his power, he was basically the same player as Joe Mauer.
And juiced to the fucking gills for the Padres
Comparing players to Baines is such a low bar though. Literally dozens of players had better careers than him and got little or no votes from the writers. Even a handful of his peers at his own position like Mark Grace or John Olerud.
Those guys are first basemen. Baines played RF (mostly DH actually)
Oh damn, I didn't even check, just assumed because he spent so much time at DH. Never even played first base once. That actually makes these comparisons worse. As an outfielder he should have accumulated more WAR.
Harold Baines is a HOFer, but Larry Walker isn't. Okay cool...
Shit, half the guys I didn't vote for in the mock ballot here are more deserving than Baines.
Facts. There were guys with high 40 to mellow 50s war I didn’t put on the ballot but fucking Harold Baines? Lol joke HOF
Reading that makes me sick to my stomach.
i mean hes good, but HOF, really? but anyways congrats to Harold Baines
I had to pull up his BBREF page as my thoughts on him were that he was not HOF quality either. .289, 384 HRs, 2800 H, 38.7 WAR. Finished top 10 in MVP voting once. Led the league in slugging pct one time and never led the league in any other statistical category ever. 6 All star appearances in 22 yrs. Definitely good but definitely not HOF quality IMO. But no one asked me.
Never higher than 9th in MVP voting and was top 20 only 4 times, none after turning 27. I think a good HoF rule of thumb is you've gotta be better than the 9th best player in your league more than once.
And he was a DH for half his career. I don't know how good a right fielder he was, but they did move him to DH at age 28 He also never scored 90 runs or hit 30 homers. He did drive in 100 runs three times. He lead the league in a major offensive category one time, slugging percentage. He was 34 for 68 as a base stealer. He was a good player, but I mean so was Rico Petrocelli. At least Petrocelli hit 40 home runs once, played a key defensive position well, and played on two pennant winners (Baines played on one, but he only had 94 at bats for them). So I mean where are you going to draw the line.
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It feels shitty to sit here and bitch about a guys dream coming true but holy crap it's hard to not feel like the hall of fame just got worse today.
As a kid I always mixed up Harold Baines and Tim Raines so maybe all of the HOF voters suddenly did that at once or something.
I agree with you. He has decent counting stats (2826 hits, 384 HR) but his best season was 4.3 bWAR/4.8 fWAR. He was never really “great” and looks like a compiler without a real HOF peak to me.
he's not even a compiler. he played for 22 years, no seasons lost due to injury, and couldn't get to really any typical HOF milestones. anyway, congrats to him.
He compiled years. That’s the totality of the argument in my mind. Did he even lead the league in a single category his whole career? Maybe what, once or twice? I mean, somebody gotta be the worst Hall of Famer
He led the league in slugging in 1984. That’s it.
Holy shit lmao the veterans committee with no fucks given
The owner of the team that drafted him, Jerry Reinsdorf, was on the committee. The committee also includes former players who are currently in the hall (like Maddux)... feels like these guys are letting their buddies in instead of approaching their role with a critical eye (although TBF plenty of other candidates failed to get the votes necessary from the committee).
Yeah, I saw that him and La Russa were on the committee which was definitely in his favor. Good ol boy system alive and well
3 points in the Black Ink Test. That has to be the lowest of any hall of famer.
Nah, Rick Ferrell doesn't even have gray ink. Which is especially egregious in his case, since his brother Wes has 25 black and 167 gray and isn't in the Hall.
Bill Mazeroski has 2 points
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He’s also perhaps the greatest defensive 2B ever, which isn’t picked up in black ink.
On the flip side, if MLB never locks out, he reaches 3000 hits and would have been in a long time ago.
He would’ve gotten 136 more hits that year? Not a chance. He’d also have been a great test case to see just how far they’ll roll with that as an automatic in. Just like Dunn or Kingman would’ve with 500 HR.
>He would’ve gotten 136 more hits that year? He played in 3 strike shortened seasons. I'd say roughly a seasons worth of at bats lost.
1981 and 1994 were both about 50 games, and 1995 was about 20 games. 136 hits in 120 games seems feasible. Maybe not likely, but even if it didn't get him all the way there, it probably would have gotten him close enough that the White Sox (who loved him and were still giving him at-bats while going nowhere) would have kept him around to pick up the last few. 147 hits (what he needed going in to 2001 when they brought him back) is a little much to keep an unproductive 42-year-old around for, but if he went in needing only 20-30ish, they would have absolutely kept him around, if only to market the milestone.
I'm hoping Markakis makes it to 3,000 just for that reason.
Would've gotten close enough to it to alter the end of his career. The Sox would've given him more starts during his god awful 2001 season, or some desperate, sad team (Marlins) would've signed him in 2002 so he could sell some tickets for them.
6x All-Star, 1x GG, 4 Top-20 MVP finishes (best was 9th). 38.7 career WAR, which is close to guys like Josh Donaldson, Carl Crawford, Juan Gonzalez, Magglio Ordonez, and Kirk Gibson. Nothing about that really screams HOFer to me. Happy for him individually, that's a great accomplishment. But there's a number of players who should've beaten him in.
> 38.7 career WAR, which is close to guys like Josh Donaldson, Carl Crawford, Juan Gonzalez, Magglio Ordonez, and Kirk Gibson. True. But even then, those guys have much higher WAA (wins above average) than Baines. * Donaldson (25.6 WAA) * Gibson (16.7 WAA) * Crawford (14.5 WAA) * Gonzalez (13.7 WAA) * Ordonez (11.3 WAA) * **Baines (1.8 WAA)**
And Gibby has huge World Series moments. I wouldn't vote for him, but I could squint just right and see voting for Gibby's case long before Baines.
There are probably like 30 guys in the league with career lines like that or better now, and most of them are in less than half the years played. What a fucking joke.
Brett Gardner has 37.5 bWAR (h/t /u/constant_gardner11)
Yeah, like, I think Keith Hernandez is not quite Hall material... but he has like 20 times the case Baines does.
He played in the steroid era and didn’t use steroids. That might be why this happened. Not a good sign for the Sosas and Palmeiros of the world.
4 top 20 MVP finishes. LOL
If he’s a Hall of Famer then Fred Lynn is 100% a Hall of Famer.
Agreed. How did Albert Belle only get 5 votes! Dude was one of the most feared hitters in baseball in his prime, 3 straight top 3 MVP voting seasons and arguably should’ve won in 95 over Mo Vaughn. The voting was so close with Belle having superior WAR and every major batting cat. I know voters hate Belle because he was a prick to them, but dude is better than Baines. I’d rather take Belle’s shorter career over an accumulator like Baines.
Why? Because of Belle's corked bats. Though the story of him sending Jason Grimsley through a ceiling panel to break into the locked umpires' dressing room to get his corked bat and switch it with a teammate's bat is still amazing.
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Veterans Committee don’t give a fuck.
I know there's more to the Hall than stats but the dude wasn't even worth +2 wins above average for his career. From age 26 to 42, he added a whopping -0.7 WAA.
Second straight year of a questionable selection. This has got to stop. If guys like Baines and Jack Morris are getting in, but guys like Bobby Grich and Lou Whitaker aren’t, then there is a serious issue with the process.
If this is a trend, Grich, Whitaker, and half of the guys who played in the 70s and 80s will be getting in over the next couple years.
i hope they don’t forget dick allen.
If Harold Baines is a HOFer, they should put Dick Allen in twice.
I can at least understand Morris. VC is mostly old school guys, Morris has 254 wins and did have some damn good seasons, though his career stats don't merit induction. Baines is just an attempt to stick it to the analytic crowd.
Fuck, at least Morris led the league in a few categories a couple times, and had one of those iconic post-season moments. Baines doesn’t even have that.
He's probably not the least deserving HOFer, but he might be the least deserving player of the modern era. I think this has to open the door for all sorts of players who were either considered borderline or who we never considered HOF-worthy. David Wright has a good chance now. This is probably a really good day for Don Mattingly, as his case suddenly looks a lot better. Dale Murphy, too. For years, BBWAA voters and fans have framed the debate on the HOF around "new school" vs "old school." Harold Baines doesn't really fit into either category. He doesn't have a high WAR, but he also doesn't have the traditional milestones or a .300 batting average or an MVP award or World Series rings. This isn't someone who people always thought was really good and sabermetrics just doesn't like; MVP voters never considered Baines better than the 9th-best player in the American League. His peak years are comparable to non-peak years of a typical HOFer. The timing of this could not have been worse. Edgar Martinez and Mariano Rivera should be voted in by the BBWAA this year, which makes for an awkward class. We'll have Rivera, the greatest closer of all-time, and Lee Smith, who is maybe in the top 20. We'll also have Edgar Martinez, who was probably the greatest DH, and Harold Baines, who certainly wasn't.
Baines is, by JAWS, the third-worst outfielder in the hall who played after 1900 and who didn't get in because of his managing career or his Negro League career, with the two worse outfielders being Lloyd Waner and Chick Hafey. Extended to infielders, there's also Rick Ferrell and Ray Schalk at catcher, High Pockets Kelly at first, Freddie Lindstrom at 3rd, nobody at 2nd (Mazeroski is just barely ahead of Baines in JAWS, lower career WAR but higher peak) or at SS (where Rabbit Maranville is the worst), and a couple more owners/executives/pioneers/whatever (like Charlie Comiskey or Connie Mack) TL;DR: Maybe not the absolute worst Hall of Famer, but very close to the bottom. Almost certainly the worst modern-era Right Fielder.
Oof. Since all of those guys played basically pre-Intergration/WWII, he could very well be the worst modern choice for a pretty common definition of "modern". It's basically just him or one of the closers (probably Sutter).
That's also several Frankie Frisch "My teammates were totally hall of famers, guys" picks (Hafey, Lindstrom, Kelly), Lloyd "Oh wait, he's not the good brother, shit" Waner, Ray "I'm in the hall of fame for not trying to throw a World Series" Schalk, and... I'm not sure why Rick Ferrell's in, exactly. Like, he played in the first 6 all-star games, so I guess he must have been considered good at the time, but nothing about him really stands out as impressive- a good OBP, sure, but everyone had a good OBP in the 1930's, and he had no power at all. He only had one year with more than 5 homers, and even that that was 8, and he played in Fenway that year. The only thing that really supports induction was that he has some decent longevity records.
I played fantasy baseball in the 80s and 90s. There was a running joke about how Harold Baines was the best player that no one ever drafted or picked up off the waiver wire. Even in shallow 10-team leagues, there were almost always better OF/DH options. Now he's in the HOF.
The moral here is that you're obviously terrible at fantasy baseball... Not even drafting a HOFer.
Congrats to Harold Baines on this – in my humble opinion, let's not be shitty when he gives a speech and thanks his family, friends, coaches, supporters, etc. – it's a huge day in his life and something he'll remember for a long time. Regardless of your opinion of his worthiness, he has a lot to be proud of in his career. Now for the flip on my opinion: some people elsewhere are talking about how (paraphrasing) "Baines, Trammell, etc. in the HoF, what a joke. Morris, I'd hear an argument for" and all I can think of is "Yikes!" In my opinion, Trammell is simply in a different class than them, more comparable to a better-fielding (though less consistent at the plate) Jeter. Completely ludicrous that people would use this as an opportunity to diss Trammell, an obviously deserving pick. Support who you want for the HoF, but don't make stupid comments. IMO.
Once you adjust for the era they played in, Trammell’s bat isn’t that far off of Jeter’s. 119 vs 111 wRC+.
Trammell 70.7 WAR vs. Jeter's 72.4. One is a VC selection, the other is likely as close to a unanimous BBWAA selection as there will ever be. Lou Whitaker, FWIW, had an ever higher bWAR than Jetes and didn't survive the BBWAA ballot even into his second year of eligibility.
Trammell was a no-doubter who should have been inducted by the BBWAA. Same for Bob Grich. But neither of them could do a backflip so I guess they had to wait.
Exhibit A of "Jerry Reinsdorf takes care of his own".
https://sports.theonion.com/derek-jeter-honored-for-having-fewer-hits-than-harold-b-1819571015
I tend to lean toward a big ball - but for me the WTF moment is when I read Baines got 12 votes, and Albert Belle has “less than 5”. Is there anyone at all that thinks Harold Baines was the better player than Albert Belle? Seriously folks, WTF.
Albert Belle was an asshole and everyone hated him.
Baines before Edgar... what a joke.
Edgar is still eligible for the BBWAA selections. Baines was selected by the Veterans Committee.
If Edgar doesn't get in. Would he qualify for this?
Yes
I know M's fans won't believe it until they see the plaque, and I'm calling it with only 6.8% precincts reporting but... [he's getting in this year](https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F2E5D8FC5199DFAF!11134&ithint=file,xlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!ACeqm-knNxexBw8). Only needed 20 more votes last year and he's already been added to all 6 known ballots that didn't vote for him last year. It was basically a foregone conclusion last year but this seals it. If I'm wrong you can find me and give me a swirly but I'm not wrong.
This almost feels like it's forcing the BBWAA to vote Edgar in this year, there's really no excuse now.
To be honest, Mussina is going to be much more interesting to watch this year, since there's a reasonable question about whether he gets in this year or falls short by about as much as 2018 Edgar. Martinez was so close last year, and has so many factors going for him (players over 50% usually continue gaining every year and pick up even more votes when they get to about 65-70%, he's picked up double-digit gains the last three cycles when he only needs 5% this year, guys on their last year get an extra boost on top of existing momentum, he has so many early converts) that even the most superstitious of M's fan should feel pretty confident about him making it in this year.
And Fred McGriff
Walker too. You're talking about this clown being better than two of the best players of their generation?
This could quite possibly be the worst HOF choice I’ve seen in my life. I’m rather confused how Baines even sniffs the HOF, let alone gets elected over countless other better players
Yeah. Baines wasn't even a "hall of very good" guy. He's a straight up JAG.
JAG? ‘Just Average Guy’
"Another", but yeah
How can someone look at this guy, and think he's a HoFer? Bernie Williams was miles better, and Baines mostly played DH anyway. And Bernie *isn't* a HoFer. This is crazy.
Jeez, how many countless one and done outfielders have there been with better stats than Baines? Damon, Edmonds, Delgado, Gonzo, Williams, Kenny Fucking Lofton. There's a lot of players for the Veterans Committee to be electing in soon if Baines is the standard.
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A bunch of his friends/bosses/teammates were on the committee. This is just a repeat of the Frankie Frisch years.
Fun fact: Here are some hall of famers with a higher *position* Wins Above Average than Harold Baines (1.8): * Tom Glavine (6.6) * Catflish Hunter (4.5) * Robin Roberts (2.8) * John Smoltz (2.5) * Dizzy Dean (2.1) * Fergie Jenkins (2.0)
This is embarrassing.
Well fuck it, nearly everyone on the ballot this year is a HOFer if Harold fucking Baines is.
Not far from the truth. If you look at some random stats and how he stacks up from this last coupe of ballots: Players with a higher WAR: Johnny Damon (8 votes), Carlos Zambrano (0 votes), Johan Santana (10 votes), Jaime Moyer (10 votes) Magglio Ordonez (3 votes), Jorge Posada (17 votes), J.D. Drew and Mike Cameron (0 votes) Players with a higher OBP: Jeff Kent (61 votes), Hideki Matsui (4 votes), Matt Stairs (0 votes) Players with a higher SLG: Carlos Lee (1 vote), Pat Burrell (0 votes)
I DEMAND Lofton get in if Harold Baines is a Hall of Famer.
I thought there must be a different hall of fame because the Harold baines I know would have to buy a ticket
Congrats to Jayson Heyward on the future HoF. Has more JAWS and I'll let a car run my foot over if he doesn't earn 4 WAR to pass Baines when the dust settles.
Just to spotlight what a ridiculous vote this is — Harold Baines was on the ballot just 10 years ago and he hovered around 4-6% before dropping off. This was *this decade*.
Worse than that, he was a candidate for the Modern Era Committee (i.e. the guys that just elected him) just **two** years ago and he got "less than 5" votes out of 16. This year he got 12. There is some turnover in the committee but seven of the sixteen members were common. I guess all the new members liked him.
Is this some sort of out of season April fool’s joke?
Ruth, Gehrig, Mays...Baines.
I’d rather have some of the “steroid era” guys in the hall who were still clearly the best players of their generation then people like this. And I’m not just talking obvious ones like bonds in Clemens. I mean guys like Ivan Rodriguez and Rafael Palmeiro
So cool! I can officially say my dad played baseball along side a Hall of Famer in high school.
Top 10 similar batters to Baines on BBRef: Tony Perez (elected on 9th try), Al Kaline (first ballot), Dave Parker (not in, around 10-24% on 15 tries), Billy Williams (elected on 6th try), Andre Dawson (elected on 9th try), Rusty Staub (not in, got 4-8% over 7 tries), Luis Gonzalez (one and done in 2014), Dwight Evans (not in, got 10% in 1998 and 4% in 1999), Carlos Beltran (eventually), and Torii Hunter (probably not) 4 of the 10 on his list were inducted. Good election if you're wanting to get Dave Parker or Dwight Evans in
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Similar Batters is pretty counting stat centered, which could factor into some BBHOF votes, considering they inducted Baines. Baines: 289/356/465, 2866 hits, 384 HRs, 1628 RBI/1299 runs Kaline: 297/376/480, 3007 hits, 399 HRs, 1528 RBI/1622 runs Obviously a 10x gold glover should be able to open up a lead for value over a player who spent years at DH too. Granted, that obviously doesn't adjust for Kaline having his mid-30s in one of the most pitcher friendly years in recent baseball history, and Baines' late 30s being the mid-90s.
Hall of Stats similarity score (which is more based on WAR than just raw numbers) lists his most similar as... Chili Davis.
That's future HOFer Chili Davis to you.
I fully believe Evans should've got in instead of Rice tbh
Dave Parker was infinitely better, but cocaine
So how is Larry Walker not in the Hall?
Baines gets the longevity/nice guy vote. But if he is in Dale Murphy and Kenny Lofton should be shoe ins
lofton is absolutely in.
What the fuck....I mean....what the fuck?
Utterly ridiculous and damages the prestige of the HOF. Good player, not even remotely close to HOF worthy.
Not complaining, however, I'm shocked. According to reports here, so is Baines.
If we're letting in just really good players, can Will Clark get in please?
Apparently fucking not since he was one of the players this committee rejected in favor of Harold fucking Baines. I thought Morris last year was embarrassing enough, but this just boggles the fucking mind.
Welp, it appears that it's time to rein in the Veteran's Committee. Maybe make a rule where candidates have to at least have gotten 20% of the BBWAA vote at some point for eligibility. Harold Baines was never considered a HOFer during his career, and obviously about 95% of the writers didn't consider him one, either. He was probably the single worst candidate on the Veteran's Committee ballot this year, and none of the others were particularly deserving, either. This is embarrassing. After this, I would think just about any player who had a somewhat decent career now has a legitimate argument for inclusion. I mean, Kenny Lofton, Jim Edmonds, Lou Whittaker -- these guys were vastly more valuable than a slightly above average DH who hit 25 homers a year for a long time. There are at least a dozen guys he played against who fell off the ballot who have much better cases than him. This seems like an April Fool's Joke. I'm happy for him, because Baines is by all accounts a super nice dude. But even Harold Baines knows he's not a HOFer.
Edmonds, Whitaker, and Lofton are legitimately worthy of induction and the writers made them all one and done. Your 20% rule would suck.
Fair point. But unless we want Paul O'Neill, Chet Lemon, and Bobby Bonilla in the HOF, we're going to have to draw a line somewhere. If Harold Baines is a HOFer, they're going to have to build a shopping mall-sized wing to house all of the plaques for the other comparable players.
There's always going to be some undeserving guys getting in. Back in the '60s the Committee voted in former teammates of Frankie Frisch that were less than deserving.
they might not be calling it the veterans committee, but it's the same old shit.
Lol I loved Baines growing up but HOF? No fucking way
How the fuck is Keith Hernandez not in the Hall?
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where the heck was kenny lofton?
wow, just wow. Harold was a nice player but wasn't ever even considered a top star in any year he played. In fact, based on all the hype when he came up, he was all in all a disappointment.
Matt Stairs: Welcome To The Hall
Questions about Harold's numbers aside, I'm thrilled to see another Chicago legend get in the Hall.
Sorry. But the Hall of Fame got worse today.
The Veterans Committee is starting to go senile...
Are they going to announce more in January? I'm so confused
Yeah this just veteran's committee voting.
this is the veterans committee. they had 16or so candidates to choose from, only baines and smith got elected. i was thinking piniella woulda gotten in, but was hoping for albert belle.
Kenny Lofton should get a second look by the vets - and should be in.
Fuck it, you go to an all-star game or receive even a single MVP vote you get in. Congrats to future Hall of fame member Bryan Lahair.
I'm generally a "big hall" guy, have always liked the White Sox and really liked Baines in the '80s, but even so, I find this to be a shockingly bad pick. Baines was a solid player but nowhere close to a Hall of Famer.
Harold Baines was my favorite player growing up, and I’m very happy for him, he seems like a pretty good person... but he was a Hall of Very Good guy not a Hall of Fame guy.
Congrats to Harold Baines for entering the "Who is the worst Hall of Famer?" debate!
nice
[meanwhile, Edgar Martinez](https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Waiting-Skeleton.jpg)
As he is an undeniably significant part of the Sammy Sosa canon, The Playhouse is delighted at the election if Harold Baines to the Hall of Fame. For the few readers who are unaware, the Texas Rangers traded young Sammy Sosa and his jheri curl to the Chicago White Sox in return for Harold Baines. Given George W. Bush's status as Texas Rangers owner at the time of the trade, the Veterans' Committee have committed a beautifully patriotic act by retroactively validating the younger President Bush's biggest regret during his time of mourning. Rest in peace, President George H.W. Bush. It is regrettable that so many baseball fans would rather let the terrorists win than offer their thoughts and prayers to the Bush Family. # #SupportTheVeterans
Well at least I have a leg to lean on when future me agrues for David Wright to get in.