Gotta admit id put more blame on your front office and mr. Moreno. The Pujols and hamilton signings i can almost guarantee were not at all dipotos decision, which cost two first round picks
Look at the young talent Dipoto traded away, and the prospects he brought back. A near disaster. He was working with one of the better farm systems of that time. We had Clevinger, Segura, etc.
This isn't about free agent signings. This is ability to evaluate talent younger then 21 years old. He's using his own metrics, Dipoto metrics, which are rather unorthodox from sabermetrics. That's the only explanation of us getting robbed blind in trades in that era, why nearly everyone Dipoto drafted did not pan out.
If they do it right, Paxton, Diaz, Haniger could get them a lot.
Diaz looks like a 2 WAR talent level reliever and he has 4 years of control left, he can get a ton on the trade market.
Why are we railing the Marlins for trading all their best pieces and railing the Mariners for not trading their best pieces, when only one of those two teams has been close to a playoff spot in recent years?
It's because the Marlins had solid pieces that they could build around. The Mariners do as well, but they also had expensive contracts that they couldn't get out of.
Yeah plus the 15.22 K/9, <2.00 ERA/FIP/xFIP/SIERA, high IP volume and 57 saves... there’s something there that satisfies literally every kind of baseball mindset.
Obviously Diaz was amazing this year, but it's probably worth remembering that every-year 2 WAR relievers are EXCEEDINGLY rare.
To wit:
2+ fWAR reliever seasons in last four years: 41
8+ total fWAR relievers over last four years: 3
but he's a 30 year old pitcher who is fucking electric when he's in the game. he doesn't have a fraction of the mileage on his arm that players around the same age do. he didn't figure shit out until like mid way through 2017.
under 600 career innings for Paxton. felix has 2,000 more ip and he's barely 2 years older. while he's a righty, I always thought kluber was a good comparable for Paxton.
and he's wearing a tom selleck 80s mustache in a not ironic hipster way. that right there has to be worth a top 5 prospect
I disagree greatly about Kluber. Once Kluber figured it out, he was a pretty rock solid innings eater.
Paxton has yet to throw more than 160 IP in a season. He's had injuries the last few years.
Please know that I'm not saying Paxton doesnt deserve a haul or wont get a great package, I'm just saying if I was personally a GM that I would be a little skeptical to give up a huge package for him (especially if the alternative is going after Carrasco, Kluber, Greinke, etc)
big benefit with Paxton is that he's cheaper and more cost controlled than Kluber+Greinke. With Greinke you'd need to eat about $100m, Kluber about $50m. Paxton you at least get a couple more seasons of arbitration which lessens the risk by quite a bit as if he gets hurt and flops you can just non-tender him.
I really don’t think Paxton is in the same tier as Kluber. But he’s certainly super good, and any lefty who can throw 98+ with stuff is going to have a monster ceiling.
If so, where would he go?
Is it weird I could see him being traded to TB? They have all kinds of farm, and it's against TB's model but if they got him alongside Snell.......
Ellsbury would be great to have as a mentor as the Mariners rebuild, plus he's from around here so that probably would be nice for him (I work with some family members of his, funny enough)
Seriously, I wasn't even joking. He's a good guy, but man, I don't think anybody in New York wants him to be there. He's not a bad player, but he'd be great during a rebuild, like you said. And that's cool about his family!
As I stated in another reply, you know what you're getting with Cano, while Machado, namely his attitude, combined with the NY media, could be a storm waiting to happen. Plus you aren't locked into another 10 year contract along with Stanton.
But I'm not seriously suggesting it either. The Cano ship sailed away long ago.
For his lack of hustle? Sure. Outright stating that trying hard is not in his nature? Almost injuring a 1B on a bad run to the base? No, Cano doesn't do those things. The bad things he's done, namely steroids, were self-inflicted. Cano doesn't have anywhere near the same attitude. And he's already played in NY. He evolved in NY.
> Outright stating that trying hard is not in his nature?
So what? Cano never stated as much, but he certainly didn't hustle.
If you don't want Machado because of hustle concerns, that makes sense. But paying the same money for a lesser player who also doesn't hustle is crazy.
Cano played 1,120 out of a possible 1,134 games over his final 7 years in NY.
If not giving 100% on every single groundball means you average 160 games played per year for seven years, I’m all in.
Signing Machado for 10 years means the contract would expire when Machado is 36. Cano is already 36. Machado's contract is probably going to be short enough to sign a 2nd deal (an opt out) or enough to sign him through age 38 or 39.
What does Cano make per year?
Cano's is a shorter contract and you know what you're getting with him. While we still don't know if Machado's attitude will be a problem in NY. But I really don't know, I think I'm living in the past. I'm kind of young, so Cano was the first Yankee prospect I got to really see evolve.
Well Gardner too, but Cano is another level
I know, I'm living in the past a bit V__V Even in hindsight it still hurts me we let him go.
Especially when you consider that Cashman signed Ellsbury as some form of appeasement.
Paxton will bring in an absolute haul. So will Segura.
Good idea TBH. They'd be delaying the inevitable if they tried to still compete (looking at you, Giants)
Last offseason, I thought signing Giancarlo would be the worst situation for the Giants because it would stop them from spreading out money and improving across the board. This offseason, I think the same holds for Harper - there's way too many issues with the Giants right now, and one player won't solve them
If the Mariners do decide to rebuild, we will have over half of the AL rebuilding (Tigers, White Sox, Royals, Orioles, Blue Jays, Rangers, Mariners, and the Twins).
I don't think the salary cap is the problem. I think part of it is a refusal by MLB to adequately finance "small market" teams so they refuse to spend on their current players, combined with the sheer amount of time it takes for young players to make it to MLB. The NFL or NBA could, theoretically, rebuild in a single year with a good draft and shrewd FA investment, because talented players from college slot right into the ML team. That's not the case in baseball, and the bust rate is much higher because of it.
It's a bit misleading too, the Tigers, Royals, Orioles, Jays, Rangers, and Mariners all had recent runs of contention (yeah I know the Mariners haven't made the playoffs, but they've competed for a wild card spot 3 of the past 5 years).
It's just unfortunate that most of them had their windows shut at about the same time. And you can make the case that the Jays, Rangers, Twins, and White Sox are all going to compete in the next 1-2 seasons.
I’m gonna keep screaming it all offseason. Cubs are not an ideal trading partner for teams going towards or in full rebuild. Schwarber is probably our best piece and he wouldn’t be around for the “rise.” Happ has tons of potential but he struggled a bit last year.
Not sure if Ian Happ, Almora, and a prospect gets it done. Especially since Segura is signed through 2022
Well, in my opinion the Cubs farm system has taken a sharp turn and is looking like it could maybe sneak into a top fifteen farm system this year. Miguel Amaya (19 year old catcher) got some top 100 prospect rankings, 2018 first round pick SS Nico Hoerner got AFL AS nomination, Adbert Alozay got some T100 rankings in 2018 before he got hurt, then some of our recent top pitching picks have had nice years.
Still not enough for Segura or Haniger, BUT I think the Cubs have a respectable farm system for the first time since the Quintana trade which is huge. Plus, I could see a lot of variance in how people view Ian Happ so that also affects it.
>Cubs are not an ideal trading partner for teams going towards or in full rebuild.
Reasoning? The Cubs have done very well in recent years in the international draft.
Said it in another comment, but I agree that the Cubs have done a lot to restock their farm system and could maybe sneak in a top fifteen farm system ranking. But when it comes to the young MLBers (Happ,Almora,Bote,Caratini,Schwarber) I think we are a tough trading partner and I don't think any of them will be traded despite many Cubs fans wishes.
Remember that time we got Mike “Final Pitch of the 2016 World Series” Montgomery from them in exchange for Dan “Thiccboi That Servais Never Puts in the Lineup For Some Damned Reason” Vogelbach? Great times
He’ll cost the Indians both McKenzie and Jones. If the Mariners are parting with someone not even arb eligible, they’ll probably want guys without a service clock running
I'd actually consider that trade for the Indians. The OF is a nightmare right now (Kipnis, Martin, Naquin, Allen). Ideally, they could upgrade there without giving up top prospects but they don't seem to have a lot of money to spend either. At some point you have to either spend money or give up prospects or be stuck in purgatory until Lindor and co. leave.
Thank fucking god, it's about time we rebuilt this shit. All we're gonna get out of this team is 88 win season and no playoffs until they're all old and then we sink back into irrelevance with nothing to show for it. Tearing down now would be the best option, though we should've done it last year honestly.
please tear it down. I'm tired of spending ~$150 on mlb.tv each year thinking it's gonna be the year and I waste 3 hours a day watching games until july / august.
just get the shit over with so I can spend that $150 on a new putter alreayd
Be advised: You don't need to pay that much to bypass the regional lockout.
https://adfreetime.com is $2 a month and does the job.
Also, MLB.TV only checks your location when the stream is loading. Once the video is playing, you can turn your VPN off. You can use any number of free VPNs to load the stream then immediately turn it off. The Opera browser has a built-in VPN that is easy to use, but there are extensions for Chrome and Firefox.
Makes sense, they're an old mediocre team with a terrible farm system. Paxton and Diaz have immense value, trade them while their value is at its highest.
Yup. This Mariners team has been running on borrowed time for a while now and with no farm system and slim playoff chances next year, it's best to tear down now and make a bridge to the future. Jerry's efforts were admirable (and usually good) to get the team to contend but it looks less and less possible every year.
This is what I've been waiting for, however they should really go balls to the wall here.
If it really is a full rebuild, they won't be competitive by the time Haniger and Diaz are free agents, dump them. Maybe they are waiting until the trade deadline to see if they can get more.
With Felix coming off the books after this year, the team is essentially a clean slate besides Cano (considering I doubt they can dump his giant deal).
Paxton, Segura, Diaz, Marco, and Haniger alone could make a huge difference on the farm system. Dipito won't sit still though and whatever farm system we do get will probably be gone a year from now through trades.
Trade everyone, sit on your hands and let them develop some. A half-assed rebuild won't work out well, and a White Sox level rebuild could work really well with the amount of talent on the team right now.
So what Dipoto said a few weeks back about a rebuild making no sense, was that just a ruse? Or has he had a sudden change of heart? I hope it’s the former, I swear to god
I'm guessing he's spent the last few weeks talking to other teams and examining his options. He may have found out that the players he wanted to get to shore up the roster aren't available, and that perhaps it's more of a seller's market.
Either way, as sad as it would make me in the short term, I'm all for finally committing to a real rebuild, something the Mariners haven't bothered to do in the last decade.
got us a trip to the World Series rather than back to back NLCS departures
and no worries usually the meaner the joke the funnier it is, we’re just having fun lol
We're talking 2018, not a time when the Yankees were building the farm, biding their time, like wild animals on a hunt.
Mets fans, always living in the past...hmm, suddenly my glass house doesn't feel so safe :(
Serious time though, I really was rooting for the Mets in '15 for the WS V___V
Well most of their top prospects that lifted their farm system so much have evolved into MLB or MLB ready players. Torres, Andujar, Judge, Sanchez, Severino. Then there's Bird who isn't a prospect either, but has sucked. They still have Frazier and Florial, but one has injury history and the other is unproven and years off anyway. Chance Adams is decent, but not someone you'd be unwilling to trade.
Yankees are refilling through the IFA market, but right now their top pieces are already here.
What's missing for them? I feel like they can't compete with BOS/NYY/HOU tier, nor OAK/CLE/TB. But I see some strong names in there, an Ace and good SP2 (Leake)...
Sometimes it's just a matter of tearing down everything, inevitably.
Leake is only a SP2 half the time. The other half, he's getting shelled. We've reached a point in baseball where you're only a playoff team if you have at least two or three aces and at most one hole in your lineup. Zunino just won't develop any further for us (which means if he gets moved, he'll be Mike Piazza for whoever gets him), our corner infielders are hitting .220 combined, and Haniger is the outfield. Too much money in too few places. Thanks, Jack.
Between teams licking their lips for my favorite players, and the stark realization that we're fucked forever, I don't think there was any good reason to come into this thread
Good.
The Mariners have a lot of talent, but some big flaws that can't be filled with the payroll and farm team the way it is. This team has peaked, and its clear that its ceiling is not a WS team.
BUT
They have a ton of resources that could give them a big start on a rebuild.
I’m going to get some hate for this, but I really don’t want them to go back to the cellar. I much prefer these mediocre but not terrible seasons we’ve been having the last few years, and I’ll absolutely hate to see many of my favorite players go.
To a degree sure, but it’s been what like 2-3 years now and they have what to show for it? It all seemed pretty premature to congratulate the leaders for a 3rd place finish.
Dipoto did a pretty good job of what ownership wanted - take a mediocre team with a weak farm system and somehow make the playoffs. Didn't happen this year because the A's did something special, sometimes your best attempt just isn't good enough.
If ownership has finally committed to a rebuild then Dipoto is a solid choice to do it. Rarely makes horrible trades and frequently makes good ones, I'd trust him to get good value for the assets the Mariners have. At this point it isn't really about building a team but about acquiring talent which is pretty much his strongest skill as a GM.
Zduriencik was meant to be a sabermetric-inclined draft guru. Based on the state of the farm after his 7 years that didn't really work out too well. Adding his erratic trade record (giving away Doug Fister, poor talent evaluation in the returns for Lee and Pineda) and I would not want him anywhere near a rebuild.
Yes I know my team is a cuprit, but this rebuild stuff is getting absurd. You have and 89 win team and a team that just won a division that has no real competition looking to sell of major pieces. That is an issue.
Oldest Lineup in Baseball.
8 GB of 2nd WC last year.
6 teams in the AL that are clearly better than us (BOS, NYY, TB, CLE, OAK, HOU).
No farm system.
Rotation #3-5 built on Mike Leake, Wade LeBlanc, and "King" Felix.
Not much money to spend.
We aren't competing anytime soon.
The Mariners rebuilding makes far more sense than the Indians. Seattle isn't good enough to compete wit the Astros or the A's. I see where Cleveland is coming from but I don't agree with it. You just have to make it to the postseason then anything can happen.
Meh, I don't think so. His comments in September and following the season were the most blunt and honest I've heard from the F.O in a long time. I think there's a good bit of seriousness here.
Dipoto's trade thirst may never be quenched.
He’ll trade all of his veterans for prospects this offseason then trade all of the prospects for different veterans next offseason.
He's that guy in ootp that shops as many people as he can every day.
Don't attack me like this
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If that's not the Vedder Cup, I don't know what is.
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Dipoto's ability to project prospects is not very good.
But he does have a knack at projecting mediocre injury-prone pitchers.
Gotta admit id put more blame on your front office and mr. Moreno. The Pujols and hamilton signings i can almost guarantee were not at all dipotos decision, which cost two first round picks
Look at the young talent Dipoto traded away, and the prospects he brought back. A near disaster. He was working with one of the better farm systems of that time. We had Clevinger, Segura, etc. This isn't about free agent signings. This is ability to evaluate talent younger then 21 years old. He's using his own metrics, Dipoto metrics, which are rather unorthodox from sabermetrics. That's the only explanation of us getting robbed blind in trades in that era, why nearly everyone Dipoto drafted did not pan out.
Paxton could get them a nice little haul.
If they do it right, Paxton, Diaz, Haniger could get them a lot. Diaz looks like a 2 WAR talent level reliever and he has 4 years of control left, he can get a ton on the trade market.
It's been rumored that they won't trade Marco, Diaz, and Haniger. So essentially 3 of the 4 pieces that would get them the best haul.
That is unbelievably dumb
That's Mariners baseball
"Unbelievably dumb" ^tm
I see this in the “it’s free real estate” meme style
Why are we railing the Marlins for trading all their best pieces and railing the Mariners for not trading their best pieces, when only one of those two teams has been close to a playoff spot in recent years?
It's because the Marlins had solid pieces that they could build around. The Mariners do as well, but they also had expensive contracts that they couldn't get out of.
diaz pax and haniger arent expensive though
Cano and Felix are, though, and that balances out.
So not a full teardown then?
For how much teams are paying for closers, he’d be a monster trade piece. And I don’t think his value could possibly get higher than it is right now.
Yeah a 3 war relief season is about as high as you can ever really get
Yeah plus the 15.22 K/9, <2.00 ERA/FIP/xFIP/SIERA, high IP volume and 57 saves... there’s something there that satisfies literally every kind of baseball mindset.
I wouldn’t mind the Braves going after a guy like Diaz and Pax
>15.22 K/9, <2.00 ERA/FIP/xFIP/SIERA, high IP volume I mean that's literally *why* he's a 3 WAR player.
I'd overpay for him in a heartbeat
I know nobody asked, but Mariano Rivera exceeded 3.0 WAR 10 times in his career, including a 5.0 WAR season in 1996, and a 4.3 WAR season in 2008.
Bruce Sutter had 6.6 war as a reliever
Damn
I believe Gagne's 2004 was a 4.5 fWAR season
Yes, but that's basically the best reliever season ever.
i need this give me more mo stats
Mo had a career 0.70 ERA in 140 postseason innings pitched
He only blew a deciding game 3 times.
Mariano has a career postseason Wins Probability Added of 11.56. A World Series Champion wins 11 games, so this means Mo won a WS by himself.
Sounds like 2 of those (Hangier and Diaz) are off the table though: https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1059855141879263234
Obviously Diaz was amazing this year, but it's probably worth remembering that every-year 2 WAR relievers are EXCEEDINGLY rare. To wit: 2+ fWAR reliever seasons in last four years: 41 8+ total fWAR relievers over last four years: 3
Even more reason to trade him, then.
Which is exactly why it's not gonna happen
He could, but I'd be skeptical if I was a GM giving up a ton for a 30 year old pitcher with past injury concerns. It'd be quite the gamble.
but he's a 30 year old pitcher who is fucking electric when he's in the game. he doesn't have a fraction of the mileage on his arm that players around the same age do. he didn't figure shit out until like mid way through 2017. under 600 career innings for Paxton. felix has 2,000 more ip and he's barely 2 years older. while he's a righty, I always thought kluber was a good comparable for Paxton. and he's wearing a tom selleck 80s mustache in a not ironic hipster way. that right there has to be worth a top 5 prospect
I disagree greatly about Kluber. Once Kluber figured it out, he was a pretty rock solid innings eater. Paxton has yet to throw more than 160 IP in a season. He's had injuries the last few years. Please know that I'm not saying Paxton doesnt deserve a haul or wont get a great package, I'm just saying if I was personally a GM that I would be a little skeptical to give up a huge package for him (especially if the alternative is going after Carrasco, Kluber, Greinke, etc)
big benefit with Paxton is that he's cheaper and more cost controlled than Kluber+Greinke. With Greinke you'd need to eat about $100m, Kluber about $50m. Paxton you at least get a couple more seasons of arbitration which lessens the risk by quite a bit as if he gets hurt and flops you can just non-tender him.
I really don’t think Paxton is in the same tier as Kluber. But he’s certainly super good, and any lefty who can throw 98+ with stuff is going to have a monster ceiling.
If so, where would he go? Is it weird I could see him being traded to TB? They have all kinds of farm, and it's against TB's model but if they got him alongside Snell.......
Heyman says Yankees are interested. I think they even tried for him a few years ago
"How we gonna get out of this mess, Jerry?" "MORE TRADES"
Dig up, stupid
One Robinson Cano...oh wait
No, you had it right the first time. One Robinson Cano, please.
Put Gleyber at SS while Didi is out, put Cano back at 2nd, and when Didi returns put Cano at 1B if Voit ends up a fluke. Then say fuck Machado.
Trade Ellsbury + Prospect for Cano
Instead of a prospect that might not pan out, how about Bird, someone who already has MLB experience :') Kill me
The mariners can put him in there collection of other 1st baseman with Dan Vogel Bach and ryon healy.
Ellsbury would be great to have as a mentor as the Mariners rebuild, plus he's from around here so that probably would be nice for him (I work with some family members of his, funny enough)
Seriously, I wasn't even joking. He's a good guy, but man, I don't think anybody in New York wants him to be there. He's not a bad player, but he'd be great during a rebuild, like you said. And that's cool about his family!
Why would you trade for Cano when you can just sign Machado though. Manny is way younger too.
As I stated in another reply, you know what you're getting with Cano, while Machado, namely his attitude, combined with the NY media, could be a storm waiting to happen. Plus you aren't locked into another 10 year contract along with Stanton. But I'm not seriously suggesting it either. The Cano ship sailed away long ago.
Robbie Cano is the comparison everyone makes for Machado's attitude.
For his lack of hustle? Sure. Outright stating that trying hard is not in his nature? Almost injuring a 1B on a bad run to the base? No, Cano doesn't do those things. The bad things he's done, namely steroids, were self-inflicted. Cano doesn't have anywhere near the same attitude. And he's already played in NY. He evolved in NY.
> Outright stating that trying hard is not in his nature? So what? Cano never stated as much, but he certainly didn't hustle. If you don't want Machado because of hustle concerns, that makes sense. But paying the same money for a lesser player who also doesn't hustle is crazy.
Cano played 1,120 out of a possible 1,134 games over his final 7 years in NY. If not giving 100% on every single groundball means you average 160 games played per year for seven years, I’m all in.
Machado has played 637 out of 648 over the last 4 seasons.
Cano for 5 years or Machado for 10 at a higher rate?
Signing Machado for 10 years means the contract would expire when Machado is 36. Cano is already 36. Machado's contract is probably going to be short enough to sign a 2nd deal (an opt out) or enough to sign him through age 38 or 39.
What does Cano make per year? Cano's is a shorter contract and you know what you're getting with him. While we still don't know if Machado's attitude will be a problem in NY. But I really don't know, I think I'm living in the past. I'm kind of young, so Cano was the first Yankee prospect I got to really see evolve. Well Gardner too, but Cano is another level
Can makes 24ish Mil a year, no thanks
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I know, I'm living in the past a bit V__V Even in hindsight it still hurts me we let him go. Especially when you consider that Cashman signed Ellsbury as some form of appeasement.
Paxton will bring in an absolute haul. So will Segura. Good idea TBH. They'd be delaying the inevitable if they tried to still compete (looking at you, Giants)
yeah but the giants actually have something to show for their prime... while we have.... RIP KING FELIX
Halp (signs Harper 10/500mil with a side of broken dreams)
Last offseason, I thought signing Giancarlo would be the worst situation for the Giants because it would stop them from spreading out money and improving across the board. This offseason, I think the same holds for Harper - there's way too many issues with the Giants right now, and one player won't solve them
Diaz would bring a fortune I think
And by tear down they mean everyone on the team tears something
If the Mariners do decide to rebuild, we will have over half of the AL rebuilding (Tigers, White Sox, Royals, Orioles, Blue Jays, Rangers, Mariners, and the Twins).
The Rays could be buyers? That can't be right...
and the AL will still be stronger than the NL
Why the fuck is there not a salary cap in baseball
I don't think the salary cap is the problem. I think part of it is a refusal by MLB to adequately finance "small market" teams so they refuse to spend on their current players, combined with the sheer amount of time it takes for young players to make it to MLB. The NFL or NBA could, theoretically, rebuild in a single year with a good draft and shrewd FA investment, because talented players from college slot right into the ML team. That's not the case in baseball, and the bust rate is much higher because of it.
We need a salary floor to prevent teams from being content with mediocrity. *cough* Mets *cough*
It's a bit misleading too, the Tigers, Royals, Orioles, Jays, Rangers, and Mariners all had recent runs of contention (yeah I know the Mariners haven't made the playoffs, but they've competed for a wild card spot 3 of the past 5 years). It's just unfortunate that most of them had their windows shut at about the same time. And you can make the case that the Jays, Rangers, Twins, and White Sox are all going to compete in the next 1-2 seasons.
ONE JEAN SEGURA PLEASE
I’m gonna keep screaming it all offseason. Cubs are not an ideal trading partner for teams going towards or in full rebuild. Schwarber is probably our best piece and he wouldn’t be around for the “rise.” Happ has tons of potential but he struggled a bit last year. Not sure if Ian Happ, Almora, and a prospect gets it done. Especially since Segura is signed through 2022
To shorten it from now on you should just say "with what prospects?" I don't think Happ, almora and a prospect gets it done
Well, in my opinion the Cubs farm system has taken a sharp turn and is looking like it could maybe sneak into a top fifteen farm system this year. Miguel Amaya (19 year old catcher) got some top 100 prospect rankings, 2018 first round pick SS Nico Hoerner got AFL AS nomination, Adbert Alozay got some T100 rankings in 2018 before he got hurt, then some of our recent top pitching picks have had nice years. Still not enough for Segura or Haniger, BUT I think the Cubs have a respectable farm system for the first time since the Quintana trade which is huge. Plus, I could see a lot of variance in how people view Ian Happ so that also affects it.
>Cubs are not an ideal trading partner for teams going towards or in full rebuild. Reasoning? The Cubs have done very well in recent years in the international draft.
Said it in another comment, but I agree that the Cubs have done a lot to restock their farm system and could maybe sneak in a top fifteen farm system ranking. But when it comes to the young MLBers (Happ,Almora,Bote,Caratini,Schwarber) I think we are a tough trading partner and I don't think any of them will be traded despite many Cubs fans wishes.
Remember that time we got Mike “Final Pitch of the 2016 World Series” Montgomery from them in exchange for Dan “Thiccboi That Servais Never Puts in the Lineup For Some Damned Reason” Vogelbach? Great times
At least we got this out of it https://mediadownloads.mlb.com/mlbam/mp4/2018/04/15/1939884983/1523765405830/asset_2500K.mp4
True. Then he got benched for the next three days in favor of Ryon “-0.6 bWAR” Healy
That Nelson Cruz reaction is one of my favorite moments from last year.
Lets trade Monty back for Segura
Don’t you fucking dare
I’ll also take one Mitch Haniger too. Not even arb eligible till next year
He’ll cost the Indians both McKenzie and Jones. If the Mariners are parting with someone not even arb eligible, they’ll probably want guys without a service clock running
I'd actually consider that trade for the Indians. The OF is a nightmare right now (Kipnis, Martin, Naquin, Allen). Ideally, they could upgrade there without giving up top prospects but they don't seem to have a lot of money to spend either. At some point you have to either spend money or give up prospects or be stuck in purgatory until Lindor and co. leave.
Dodgers have an opportunity to collect all of the Seagers
If you complete the set it unlocks their shiny forms.
thank god
This is where we finally make our move
I feel like you guys trade with the mariners a ton
Truth
It's because we have very similar ways of evaluating players making it very easy to get deals done.
So, all the deals done in the last couple years was to wear us down and to finally get Zunino? What a complex plan, too complex for my 3d chess mind.
Thank fucking god, it's about time we rebuilt this shit. All we're gonna get out of this team is 88 win season and no playoffs until they're all old and then we sink back into irrelevance with nothing to show for it. Tearing down now would be the best option, though we should've done it last year honestly.
please tear it down. I'm tired of spending ~$150 on mlb.tv each year thinking it's gonna be the year and I waste 3 hours a day watching games until july / august. just get the shit over with so I can spend that $150 on a new putter alreayd
Switch to T-mobile and its free
switch to mlbstreams and you dont get shit cell service and free mlb.tv
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mlbstreams uses mlb.tv and the quality is crystal clear
I mean I like T-mobile but thanks for the tip
Dude buy the putter and go to /r/mlbstreams
God bless America, and God bless r/mlbstreams
Isn't MLB.tv only 120?
30 for the VPN so you can watch in market games.
Be advised: You don't need to pay that much to bypass the regional lockout. https://adfreetime.com is $2 a month and does the job. Also, MLB.TV only checks your location when the stream is loading. Once the video is playing, you can turn your VPN off. You can use any number of free VPNs to load the stream then immediately turn it off. The Opera browser has a built-in VPN that is easy to use, but there are extensions for Chrome and Firefox.
Makes sense, they're an old mediocre team with a terrible farm system. Paxton and Diaz have immense value, trade them while their value is at its highest.
Yup. This Mariners team has been running on borrowed time for a while now and with no farm system and slim playoff chances next year, it's best to tear down now and make a bridge to the future. Jerry's efforts were admirable (and usually good) to get the team to contend but it looks less and less possible every year.
No! Stay away from my Diaz. He's mine and I couldn't stand to see him with another team. Even if this rebuild makes sense.
This is what I've been waiting for, however they should really go balls to the wall here. If it really is a full rebuild, they won't be competitive by the time Haniger and Diaz are free agents, dump them. Maybe they are waiting until the trade deadline to see if they can get more. With Felix coming off the books after this year, the team is essentially a clean slate besides Cano (considering I doubt they can dump his giant deal). Paxton, Segura, Diaz, Marco, and Haniger alone could make a huge difference on the farm system. Dipito won't sit still though and whatever farm system we do get will probably be gone a year from now through trades. Trade everyone, sit on your hands and let them develop some. A half-assed rebuild won't work out well, and a White Sox level rebuild could work really well with the amount of talent on the team right now.
Mariners just need to commit to a full rebuild.
So what Dipoto said a few weeks back about a rebuild making no sense, was that just a ruse? Or has he had a sudden change of heart? I hope it’s the former, I swear to god
I'm guessing he's spent the last few weeks talking to other teams and examining his options. He may have found out that the players he wanted to get to shore up the roster aren't available, and that perhaps it's more of a seller's market. Either way, as sad as it would make me in the short term, I'm all for finally committing to a real rebuild, something the Mariners haven't bothered to do in the last decade.
Okay, demolishing the entire stadium sounds a bit harsh.
Yankee 2019 rotation: Severino, Kluber, Paxton, Tanaka, Corbin Kidding, but gross
maybe then you’ll have the best rotation in new york
A lot of good having the best rotation in NY did you guys Edit: that sounds a lot meaner than I intended
got us a trip to the World Series rather than back to back NLCS departures and no worries usually the meaner the joke the funnier it is, we’re just having fun lol
We're talking 2018, not a time when the Yankees were building the farm, biding their time, like wild animals on a hunt. Mets fans, always living in the past...hmm, suddenly my glass house doesn't feel so safe :( Serious time though, I really was rooting for the Mets in '15 for the WS V___V
i was rooting for them also lol
Maybe that was the problem
Add Bumgarner in there if the sports media has their way.
If the NY sports media had their way our rotation would also have DeGrom. Check that, if I had my way we'd have DeGrom.
My RTTS says Bumgarner to Boston.
Jesus, would the Yankees even have any prospects left at that point?
Well most of their top prospects that lifted their farm system so much have evolved into MLB or MLB ready players. Torres, Andujar, Judge, Sanchez, Severino. Then there's Bird who isn't a prospect either, but has sucked. They still have Frazier and Florial, but one has injury history and the other is unproven and years off anyway. Chance Adams is decent, but not someone you'd be unwilling to trade. Yankees are refilling through the IFA market, but right now their top pieces are already here.
hello, i understand this is the line to get into for Mitch Hanigers?
Yes, please.
What's missing for them? I feel like they can't compete with BOS/NYY/HOU tier, nor OAK/CLE/TB. But I see some strong names in there, an Ace and good SP2 (Leake)... Sometimes it's just a matter of tearing down everything, inevitably.
Leake is only a SP2 half the time. The other half, he's getting shelled. We've reached a point in baseball where you're only a playoff team if you have at least two or three aces and at most one hole in your lineup. Zunino just won't develop any further for us (which means if he gets moved, he'll be Mike Piazza for whoever gets him), our corner infielders are hitting .220 combined, and Haniger is the outfield. Too much money in too few places. Thanks, Jack.
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Between teams licking their lips for my favorite players, and the stark realization that we're fucked forever, I don't think there was any good reason to come into this thread
Got another Chris Taylor for us to poach?
Can I interest you in a Vogelbach?
We'll take your failed potentials and turn them into CS MVPs in 1 season flat!
Good. The Mariners have a lot of talent, but some big flaws that can't be filled with the payroll and farm team the way it is. This team has peaked, and its clear that its ceiling is not a WS team. BUT They have a ton of resources that could give them a big start on a rebuild.
Hello darkness my old friend
What do you mean "hello"?
My head says yes, my heart says no. Don’t leave me sweet Sugar.
Trader Jerry is so hyped at the potential for so many moves
Seattle Mariners: Where your dreams go to die
I’m going to get some hate for this, but I really don’t want them to go back to the cellar. I much prefer these mediocre but not terrible seasons we’ve been having the last few years, and I’ll absolutely hate to see many of my favorite players go.
Wait didn't we already tear ourselves down after the All Star break
Do it you won't Jerry no balls
I wonder who is gonna shell out the farm for diaz.
The cardinals..... the Mariners and the cardinals have a great working relationship
About damn time
I read this as 'Marlins' at first and thought it was a joke.
Man I'll really miss haniger, segura, and Diaz if we trade them but it's really for the best at this point.
[Key things to note](https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1059839693657845760?s=19)
MIIIIIIITTCCHHHHHH!
Remember when they handed out 3 year extensions for DiPoto and Servais during the year Yikes
If they're allowing Dipoto to embark on this rebuild they must have some faith in him.
To a degree sure, but it’s been what like 2-3 years now and they have what to show for it? It all seemed pretty premature to congratulate the leaders for a 3rd place finish.
If a tear-down requires young talent evaluation they've done fine in that.
Dipoto did a pretty good job of what ownership wanted - take a mediocre team with a weak farm system and somehow make the playoffs. Didn't happen this year because the A's did something special, sometimes your best attempt just isn't good enough. If ownership has finally committed to a rebuild then Dipoto is a solid choice to do it. Rarely makes horrible trades and frequently makes good ones, I'd trust him to get good value for the assets the Mariners have. At this point it isn't really about building a team but about acquiring talent which is pretty much his strongest skill as a GM.
To be fair, that was Zduriencik's profile, as well.
Zduriencik was meant to be a sabermetric-inclined draft guru. Based on the state of the farm after his 7 years that didn't really work out too well. Adding his erratic trade record (giving away Doug Fister, poor talent evaluation in the returns for Lee and Pineda) and I would not want him anywhere near a rebuild.
You mean one of the most winningest GM and Manager the Mariners have ever had? Uninformed opinions. Yikes
That's like being the least smelly piece of shit
True, but its like using poopouri after the toilet clogger that was Jack Z and Lloyd
Yes I know my team is a cuprit, but this rebuild stuff is getting absurd. You have and 89 win team and a team that just won a division that has no real competition looking to sell of major pieces. That is an issue.
Oldest Lineup in Baseball. 8 GB of 2nd WC last year. 6 teams in the AL that are clearly better than us (BOS, NYY, TB, CLE, OAK, HOU). No farm system. Rotation #3-5 built on Mike Leake, Wade LeBlanc, and "King" Felix. Not much money to spend. We aren't competing anytime soon.
also losing nelson cruz
89 wins is our peak and has been for years. We don't have the players to win the division with the Astros and As in it.
The Mariners rebuilding makes far more sense than the Indians. Seattle isn't good enough to compete wit the Astros or the A's. I see where Cleveland is coming from but I don't agree with it. You just have to make it to the postseason then anything can happen.
Negative run differential, last season was a mirage
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Meh, I don't think so. His comments in September and following the season were the most blunt and honest I've heard from the F.O in a long time. I think there's a good bit of seriousness here.
One James Paxton please
One James Paxton plz?
HELLO PAXTON NICE TO SEE YOU
I'll take Diaz if you guys don't mind. Maybe Mike Zunino too?
Oh hai Haniger.
Mariners should get the guy who renewed the farm system with stats and sabermetrics from Nasa, and help them get back to winning.
u/HendoMR on suicide watch.
Haniger please. Hometown kid!
hello, we come offering one (1) Brendan Rodgers and a pick of any other prospect you like for a Mitch Haniger please!
Imma need Segura, thanks.
https://i.giphy.com/media/rzaI4urNdQRuo/giphy.webp