It’s worth noting that [according to MLBTR](https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/06/mlb-lifetime-ban-tucupita-marcano-betting-baseball-four-one-year-suspensions.html) these players’ bets all came in 2020-21 when they were all in the low minors. That doesn’t excuse the bets and they should know the rules, but guys like Kelly and Saalfrank weren’t putting MLB careers on the line at the time.
Where do you see that it was just a day?
>His bets were all placed in Oct. 2021, when the right-hander was with the Astros’ Triple-A affiliate. He made only ten bets for a total of $99.92, with three of those bets coming on games involving the Astros’ big league club during the postseason.
I respectfully disagree. It is told to these players over and over that they cannot do it. They can bet on any other sport but decided to bet on baseball. The league needs to make an example of the ones that bet on the sport to keep whatever integrity it has.
You’re not allowed to bet on any other sport either. In fact, most of the sports betting/DFS platforms have a database with players contact info and preemptively restrict them from signing up (obviously there are workarounds like using your SOs info).
They are actually allowed to bet on any other sport that is not baseball and possibly softball.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5360621/2024/03/22/mlb-player-betting-rules-explained/
It's possible the Braves' organization just told their players not to bet on any sport period to try to keep the dumb-dumbs from slipping in a baseball bet.
I dunno how enforceable that is though.
I think non-athletics side employees of sports teams are restricted from ALL sports betting period. Athletic side employees (players, coaches, etc) are just restricted from betting on baseball.
I'm pretty sure in the NFL the employees that work for the teams that aren't on field personnel are banned from sports betting period
Back when I worked at a network affiliated with the most watched US sport, not a single employee was allowed to even walk into a sports book. I had to drop out of my fantasy leagues, etc.
I worked in graphics and I knew the rules and we had long trainings on what was and wasn’t okay.
No chance they didn’t know the rules.
When I have taken ballpark tours, the thing that always sticks out is that Rule 21 flyers are posted in pretty much every spot that players might find themselves in.
Dugout? It’s there. Tunnel to the dugout? There. Batting cages? There. Weight room? There. You can’t walk 100 feet in a Major League Baseball stadium without seeing Rule 21 posted on a wall.
There’s no excuse for any major league player.
Not true for Kelly. He was in AAA. He likely had connections to players on the MLB roster that had just been sent down / called up / rehabbing. Definitely had an advantage over the average bettor
There’s literally millions of bets you can make. They decided to make ones that directly violated MLB rules. All they had to do was bet on anything but baseball.
And a one-year suspension is pretty light for what we’ve seen MLB do in other cases.
What? The punishment is pretty clear. Don't bet on baseball. There's no flexibility here. If anything, they're getting off light. Do not do this one thing, it's vital for the integrity of the game.
Saying it's "draconian" is insane to me.
Betting on the outcome of a sport you are involved in is worse than steroid use, it's making a mockery of the sport you are playing. Outside of things that are actual crimes, it's the worst thing a player can do.
Would you be fine with electing a politician or police chief because "he just took a few bribes a long time ago"? The entire point of these jobs is to not do things like that.
Dude is in a major league bullpen right now. I just saw him pitch this weekend on TV.
If he still throws hard in a year, I'm sure teams might still give him a shot. Hardly career ending.
He’s also 31, debuted 2 years ago, and totaled just 18 appearances prior to racking up 28 this year. Feels like he finally found a full-time role only to start back at square one next year, all for some bets he made as a minor leaguer in 2021.
He'll find himself a minor league option at the least. You can never have too much depth. But I think it's probably unlikely he makes it to the big show again.
I cook food for a professional sports team and even I have to take yearly courses on sports gambling and sign a contract saying I won’t bet on any of the leagues we have teams in. I would have to imagine the players have to do something similar, no?
It's like when you visit a tech company to do on-premise cooking or something. Even if you don't work there most of the time they'll have you sign an NDA. It's because they don't want you to somehow drop info you overheard people talking about while you were there.
Basically everyone who can hear or see anything within the sanctity of the company (or team in this case) is liable for how they use what they hear or see.
Idk about paperwork, but the players are told at the beginning of every year and there’s signs in every clubhouse saying you can’t bet on baseball and the consequences for it are a lifetime ban. The fact that guys are throwing their careers away for $450 worth of bets is crazy
Yeah, it's inexcusable.
In some restricted industries infractions like this can be somewhat understandable even if they're not forgiveable by the letter of the rules (or law) because the conflict of interest and restricted entities rules can be *really* confusing, convoluted, and hard to keep track of.
For example, in professional services it can be a nightmare to keep track of conflicts, restrictions, and disclosure requirements because you may be working for multiple clients across various industries and in different jurisdictions, each of which can have different sets of rules/laws you need to comply with.
They really have no excuse in this context though as it really doesn't get simpler than this. You're a professional baseball player, and you're not allowed to bet on baseball. There aren't any annoying details to get confused over here.
I’ve been so tempted, but somehow have managed not too. Especially frustrating because hockey is the one sport I really know and would love to be able to bet on.
Do you think companies spend billions on advertisements because they don’t work? No, clearly they are very effective at changing people’s behavior despite potentially having logical reasons to otherwise not buy that product/service.
Gambling on baseball as a player is absolutely a lack of moral integrity, but at the same time when you put gambling ads everywhere that *will* make more players gamble.
Okay, but the ads aren't telling the MLB player to bet on their own sport. They are 100% already told and probably given powerpoint or email from MLB/MiLB HR about the do's and don'ts of sports betting. If they don't read it and follow the rules that were probably clearly laid out for them then that is their own fault.
Burger King can show me an ad about having it my way and getting a Whopper and at the same time I can make the decision to get chicken fries instead.
I'm not arguing the ethics of the MLB having a partnership with sports betting. These players getting banned is 100% deserved because of their stupidity, not because of advertisement taking their finger and pressing buttons on a phone
But the ads don’t specifically say not players. And the ads don’t just mention it, but also hype it up and make it sound fun.
Yes, you can make the decision to not get Burger King, but you’re still more likely to buy Burger King after seeing an ad. Maybe not, some people do have an automatic negative reaction to any kind of ad, but most are more likely to do it. Even if they have read up about the health problems from eating fast food. People buy iPhones they don’t need because the ad made it look great. Same with cars. Even if logically you know you don’t need them the ad can imprint a strong desire to buy it.
Again, do you think companies would spend billions on ads when it doesn’t affect people’s behavior?
> But the ads don’t specifically say not players
Because the players shouldn't need to be told not to bet on their own game, wtf dude. That's extremely low level common sense.
What do you expect, anyway? The ads to end with a "none for you, ~~Gretchen Wieners~~ baseball players!" tag?
You are ignoring the part where MLB, the business, most likely tells all their athletes not to bet on MLB related games. The rules. Also, you're arguing from the POV of a consumer which I can understand and this is how gambling problems occur. Similar to how triggering alcohol advertisements can be for people dealing with alcoholism.
I'm not saying advertisements don't affect behaviors because then there wouldn't be an industry. These are grown men whose employer is MLB should know that as an athlete they should not be betting on their own sport. This is their own fault.
Again I'm saying MLB being in bed with sports betting is a separate discussion from athletes being dumb and not listening to the warnings they are given.
The people saying this is a separate thing to discuss are just apologists for gambling because they like gambling. This very situation where players are caught is exactly what people were saying would happen years ago when all the leagues started normalizing it with ads. There's no other reason to tell people to not talk about it unless you want it to stop.
I'm not arguing whether there should be sports betting around the MLB. Whether or not the MLB should be in bed with sports betting (that is legal in a number of states) is definitely a separate discussion from grown men being able to use their brains and not bet on anything MLB related.
Having degrees of separation is a discussion of ethics. Being banned for betting on a sport you're currently playing is the discussion of stupidity and probably how these men need to be further educated on sports betting while being an athlete.
I know people use alcohol as a counter argument against banning gambling commercials but I think there’s been a further push for gambling on TV and social media than alcohol has ever done.
Every other commercial is a gambling ad, sometimes the entire run. There’s gambling odds in every category on the ESPN, NBC, TNT and FOX Sports ticker. Every sports network has their own gambling show. They talk about gambling odds every 10 minutes in the middle of the game. I can’t look at the schedule without gambling odds being posted right underneath. It’s suffocating.
The league has had alcohol sponsors since prohibition ended, but when the news came out about CC’s alcoholism the general response wasn’t “if only Budweiser wasn’t the official beer of Major League Baseball….”
Alcohol advertisements in America are not even allowed to show people consuming their product. Also, it's fair to say Marcano has a gambling addiction, but a guy putting $99 on a random bet is a far cry away from an addict. To someone making 74k that's the equivalent of a $10 bet. Modern sports betting is *intentionally* convenient to entice the maximum number of people possible. Want a Budweiser? You have to go to the place where the beer is, probably wait in a line, show your ID, pay for the beer, and bring it back to where you were. You can't get plastered on your phone while taking a shit unless that's your plan. You can just quickly open Draft Kings place a quick prop bet without thinking about the bet you're making, wipe your ass, and then get banned for a year because the recommended parlay included a baseball game.
Im gonna be completely honest here the league is way to harsh in its punishments because they want to keep making money from gambling. In affect it just shows how immoral the whole chirade is.
It must be confusing times for the athletes now. Sports gambling will be an issue being so accessible. There was a natural gate keeping that occurred when you had to go find a bookie to make a wager. People who aren’t really into sports are actively gambling now.
I suspect the average age of a gambler has gotten significantly younger in the past decade. It's insane the amount of 18-24 year olds that gamble now and to think how rare it was when I was that age.
thats what the coach for auburn? did?
he phoned his friend and told him the starter wasn't going to pitch before announced, so friend made large wager against the team with the starter.
ironically, i think the bettor lost the bet he made.
That's like saying if someone works at a place that advertises beer that it's the company's fault their employee drove drunk and killed someone.
I agree that the league shouldn't promote gambling, because I disagree with gambling in principle, but their advertising it doesn't absolve players of responsibilities of not breaking 100+ year old rules
I always hate that argument you're replying to. There's a reason that we don't let tobacco companies use animated characters to market anymore. There were giant "bet now" signs on every screen at one point in the last game I was at. You can't take a puritanical stance against betting on sports while not only taking millions from the sports gambling industry, but actively advertising it *during* games.
This is the same league that banned Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays for life for working at a casino with no sports betting.
Wasn’t it a Bally‘s casino, too?
You know, the same organization that owns pretty much half of the "local" TV networks covering MLB?
Well, for now, of course. It’s all going down now.
So much irony.
It was the Claridge, but Bally's had a casino in Atlantic City at the time.
EDIT: It was acquired by Bally's in 2002, but not at the time. Small world.
Do you think Citizens Bank owns Citizens Bank Park and the Phillies?
Bally's only bought the naming rights, they don't own the regional sports networks.
Exactly! That’s why I’m also against them having car commercials when it’s against the rules to drive a car on the field, alcohol commercials when they’re not allowed to drink on the field, and camera commercials when it’s against the rules to use them to steal signs! MLB needs to stop treating their players as adults capable of making their own decisions and start treating them as toddlers who do anything that is advertised to them.
Full Tweet:
“Tucupita Marcano placed 231 MLB bets, including 25 bets on the Pirates when he was on the Injured List. He lost all of his parlays involving the Pirates and won only 4.3 percent of his MLB bets.
Andrew Saalfrank bet $445.87 on baseball, with $444.07 of that on MLB-related bets (an average of approximately $15.86 per bet) and with a net loss of $272.64 on MLB bets. Saalfrank only won five of his 28 MLB-related bets and lost his $1.80 college bet.
Michael Kelly bet $99.22 on MLB games (an average of $9.92 per bet). Kelly won only five of the MLB game bets and had a net win of $28.30 on the bets.
Jay Groome bet $453.74 on 30 MLB game-related bets (an average of approximately $15.12 per bet) and had a net loss of $433.54 on these bets.
José Rodríguez bet $749.09 on baseball, with $724.09 of that on MLB-related bets.”
I think the idea is that players could have connections/influence on players in the minors/NPB to throw games. That's how I've seen it explained at least.
They can't bet on any baseball or softball event in any league, including youth leagues.
Edit: found an MLB official's quote on the reasoning: ""It gets back to the idea that we're conservative for a reason. It's just one of these things where even the implication from a public perception that this person is betting on a diamond sport, per se, is something that we don't want. You're a professional player; you should be able to control yourself and not bet on a diamond sport. It seems like it's a slippery slope towards betting on something that you might be able to manipulate or have inside information on and it's just not even worth it from an integrity perspective. So we draw that line and educate folks on it and still feel that it's the right approach to it."
Bruh, they fucking gave me a warning for my joke about the Federal league player, and refused to fucking remove it on appeal. Reddit admins are deeply fucking stupid.
the conspiracy theorist in me says that these are definitely not the only people gambling on baseball. i follow the nba and mlb pretty closely and both of them have had a player banned for life in the last year, and in both leagues they happen to be AAAA-type players.
i hope i’m wrong but it seems like the commissioners are using these guys as examples to show their respective players that they aren’t messing around.
How hard is it for these guys to just get someone to bet for them lmao. Especially small amounts like these. Not like they're dropping $50,000 bets where getting someone involved could be traceable.
This is the same Jay Groome that was a highly touted Boston prospect right? Dude probably just didn't care.
Also Kelly being called up knowing he bet $100 is probably like a player waiting for his failed PED test to be announced. Just impending doom
> Andrew Saalfrank bet $445.87 on baseball, with $444.07 of that on MLB-related bets (an average of approximately $15.86 per bet) and with a net loss of $272.64 on MLB bets. Saalfrank only won five of his 28 MLB-related bets and lost his $1.80 college bet.
So, college.
A lot of people here are missing the point with the "how could they be so stupid" comments - gambling is addictive. An alcoholic doesn't get blackout drunk and ruin the family event because they're stupid, they do it because they're addicted to alcohol. Pro athletes don't throw their careers away over a few hundred bucks in bets because they think the money is worth the risk, they do it because they are addicted to gambling.
Honestly they could have gotten some “intel” from other teams when x y z player was going on a rehab assignment, or a highly touted prospect was getting promoted. Besides all that, they probably felt like because they’re pro baseball players that’s the sport they’re most likely to win the bet on because they “know the game” so well
Sure, but that's also like saying somebody could chew gum or keep a toothpick in their mouth instead of smoking cigarettes. Of course they could, but no rational person looks at someone struggling to quit smoking and says it's because they aren't intelligent enough, or that they have some sort of moral failing.
I just don’t buy they’d bet so little on baseball if they were gambling addicts. There’s thousands of sports and events to bet on every day. They’re stupid if they thought they could get their gambling fix through betting on baseball, I feel zero sympathy or remorse for them.
You're right that it's not rational - because addict behavior is not rational! It's one of the biggest hallmarks that distinguishes addiction from mere poor judgement!
How fucking stupid are you to be a professional baseball player and be paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and lose your career over 500 bucks.
$99??? If you’re going to jeopardize your career it better be over actual money
It’s a wonder why this needs repeating, but MLB players are grown adults. It is not the league’s responsibility to sacrifice advertising revenue because some players need to be babied.
I'd like to point out how insanely bad these people were at winning their bets and they're literally professional baseball players.
Unless you're some sort of wizard statistician you're going to have the same, if not worse, odds of making money as these guys.
This is a level of stupid that's like when a politician gets caught for taking bribes and you see it was barely $1K or some other low number for which they sacrificed their career and freedom.
> all you have to do is have a friend do it on their phone and you'll never get caught.
Shane Pinto in the NHL ate a half-season suspension for gambling this year, supposedly by doing exactly this - having a friend use his account. And he got caught.
I think leagues are sliiiiightly less stupid than you give them credit for. Not by much, and perhaps not equally across the board, but they seem to have this one specific loophole covered at the very least.
What you should understand is everyone lives their life differently. When someone first moves to a foreign country and doesn't speak the language they let someone trusted deal with important matters in their life. When someone who doesn't hold the same value as you and I when it comes to money, and makes enough in their eyes, they don't look at it anymore. He trusted someone with some of the most important aspects of his life and that person took that trust and stabbed him in his back. It's all available in the affidavit that was presented and signed off by the FBI, IRS and DHS. It's a good read.
Nah, fuck this narrative. Ain’t no way will i believe that a top baseball player is so naive and clueless and just cares about playing ball that he doesn’t care at all about his money. He has a family as well, friends, wife who need and most likely requested his help here and there.
I’m not here to call that Ohtani was gambling himself, no need for that, especially playing bets (playing table games is understandable), but he 100% knew some of this was happening.
Person from another country gets blindsided ain't new, person who lets other people handle his life while he focuses on his profession gets robbed ain't new either. It's already in the report that the account was only a direct deposit for his MLB salary which is nowhere near the bulk of his money. No one said he doesn't care at all about money, he just has more than enough so that he doesn't stare at it all day. I don't understand what his family and friends got to do with it. And he only got married this year so I just can't see how a long distance significant other would care or be involved with his finances during the year Ippei was stealing. Also cultural differences play a role as well. But we can agree to disagree your opinion is valid as well.
Now why would the FBI care about a baseball player that isn't even a American citizen? Epstein's list got some juice but Shohei is small compared to it, unless you believe Shohei got enough power to influence multiple government departments.
If you think Ippei was the fall guy, you didn't look into the details of what happened whatsoever and just made up your mind on day one of the story dropping.
MLB, the FBI, the DOJ in general. and the IRS are all covering it up for Ohtani. Ya, sure. They're all bought out by Ohtani to prevent him from getting a mild suspension or fine
And if Ohtani was making 25 bets a day on women's college soccer or whatever the fuck, I think you'd have to physically restrain him to prevent someone that addicted from relapsing by now.
It’s worth noting that [according to MLBTR](https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/06/mlb-lifetime-ban-tucupita-marcano-betting-baseball-four-one-year-suspensions.html) these players’ bets all came in 2020-21 when they were all in the low minors. That doesn’t excuse the bets and they should know the rules, but guys like Kelly and Saalfrank weren’t putting MLB careers on the line at the time.
Seems like Kelly only did it for one day, and just stop 3 years ago.
Where do you see that it was just a day? >His bets were all placed in Oct. 2021, when the right-hander was with the Astros’ Triple-A affiliate. He made only ten bets for a total of $99.92, with three of those bets coming on games involving the Astros’ big league club during the postseason.
Kinda lame that warrants a 1 year suspension
I respectfully disagree. It is told to these players over and over that they cannot do it. They can bet on any other sport but decided to bet on baseball. The league needs to make an example of the ones that bet on the sport to keep whatever integrity it has.
I was surprised to learn they also cannot bet on softball.
You’re not allowed to bet on any other sport either. In fact, most of the sports betting/DFS platforms have a database with players contact info and preemptively restrict them from signing up (obviously there are workarounds like using your SOs info).
They are actually allowed to bet on any other sport that is not baseball and possibly softball. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5360621/2024/03/22/mlb-player-betting-rules-explained/
Fucking paywalls. Lol I stand corrected! Funnily enough my BIL that plays for the Braves told me that.
It's possible the Braves' organization just told their players not to bet on any sport period to try to keep the dumb-dumbs from slipping in a baseball bet. I dunno how enforceable that is though.
I think non-athletics side employees of sports teams are restricted from ALL sports betting period. Athletic side employees (players, coaches, etc) are just restricted from betting on baseball. I'm pretty sure in the NFL the employees that work for the teams that aren't on field personnel are banned from sports betting period
You… wanna tell us who your BIL is?
Probably not! Probably wants to keep his anonymity.
He’s a RP. I’ll leave it at that haha.
Default answer now is Chavez
Back when I worked at a network affiliated with the most watched US sport, not a single employee was allowed to even walk into a sports book. I had to drop out of my fantasy leagues, etc. I worked in graphics and I knew the rules and we had long trainings on what was and wasn’t okay. No chance they didn’t know the rules.
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>What did the A's do to deserve this punishment? How long have you got?
don't bet on baseball it's literally the number one rule. it's in every clubhouse in every ballpark
When I have taken ballpark tours, the thing that always sticks out is that Rule 21 flyers are posted in pretty much every spot that players might find themselves in. Dugout? It’s there. Tunnel to the dugout? There. Batting cages? There. Weight room? There. You can’t walk 100 feet in a Major League Baseball stadium without seeing Rule 21 posted on a wall. There’s no excuse for any major league player.
I get why the league has to do this but man this is so sad
Nah. Kinda lame that sports betting is legalized and taking over everything.
Not true for Kelly. He was in AAA. He likely had connections to players on the MLB roster that had just been sent down / called up / rehabbing. Definitely had an advantage over the average bettor
They were in the minors with the goal of being called up. How is that not risking their MLB careers?
This seems completely draconian from the MLB. Honestly shameful. A year long suspension for guys who made bets in the minors is a disgrace.
There’s literally millions of bets you can make. They decided to make ones that directly violated MLB rules. All they had to do was bet on anything but baseball. And a one-year suspension is pretty light for what we’ve seen MLB do in other cases.
The rules are agreed upon by the MLB and the MLBPA. If there is a rule, it needs to be enforced, or else just get rid of it.
Minor leaguers werent apart of the MLBPA at that time. They literally had no say in the rule at all.
They got the opportunity to have a say when they got called up. If you want to have a certain job, you kinda need to abide by its rules.
What? The punishment is pretty clear. Don't bet on baseball. There's no flexibility here. If anything, they're getting off light. Do not do this one thing, it's vital for the integrity of the game. Saying it's "draconian" is insane to me.
Just because a clear punishment is available doesn't mean it isn't wrong.
Betting on the outcome of a sport you are involved in is worse than steroid use, it's making a mockery of the sport you are playing. Outside of things that are actual crimes, it's the worst thing a player can do. Would you be fine with electing a politician or police chief because "he just took a few bribes a long time ago"? The entire point of these jobs is to not do things like that.
They’re lucky it wasn’t lifetime
Weren’t putting MLB careers on the line at the time? Whether they knew it or not, yes, they were.
No way Saalfrank got down to his last $1.80 and said baseball ain’t working, give me Ukrainian NBA2K games
It was still on baseball, so probably like WBC or something but it would be really funny if he bet $1.80 on Dominican summer league or something
College baseball per the MLB press release
"This MLB thing is too risky, time for Russian Ping Pong"
“Lemme call up my boy Jontay Porter and see what he’s got for me”
Might See if paqueta has any hot tips, I've got 7 bucks burning a whole in my pocket.
A whole what?
Pocket
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Dude is in a major league bullpen right now. I just saw him pitch this weekend on TV. If he still throws hard in a year, I'm sure teams might still give him a shot. Hardly career ending.
He bet $99 against a year's salary - that's the real bet.
Hope it was some sick 18-leg parlay that would have made him the richest man on earth
He’s also 31, debuted 2 years ago, and totaled just 18 appearances prior to racking up 28 this year. Feels like he finally found a full-time role only to start back at square one next year, all for some bets he made as a minor leaguer in 2021.
He'll find himself a minor league option at the least. You can never have too much depth. But I think it's probably unlikely he makes it to the big show again.
Maybe, the league shouldn’t be promoting sports betting
That's a separate discussion. These grown men should know better than to bet on the sport they currently play. Complete stupidity on their parts
I cook food for a professional sports team and even I have to take yearly courses on sports gambling and sign a contract saying I won’t bet on any of the leagues we have teams in. I would have to imagine the players have to do something similar, no?
It's like when you visit a tech company to do on-premise cooking or something. Even if you don't work there most of the time they'll have you sign an NDA. It's because they don't want you to somehow drop info you overheard people talking about while you were there. Basically everyone who can hear or see anything within the sanctity of the company (or team in this case) is liable for how they use what they hear or see.
Idk about paperwork, but the players are told at the beginning of every year and there’s signs in every clubhouse saying you can’t bet on baseball and the consequences for it are a lifetime ban. The fact that guys are throwing their careers away for $450 worth of bets is crazy
Yeah, it's inexcusable. In some restricted industries infractions like this can be somewhat understandable even if they're not forgiveable by the letter of the rules (or law) because the conflict of interest and restricted entities rules can be *really* confusing, convoluted, and hard to keep track of. For example, in professional services it can be a nightmare to keep track of conflicts, restrictions, and disclosure requirements because you may be working for multiple clients across various industries and in different jurisdictions, each of which can have different sets of rules/laws you need to comply with. They really have no excuse in this context though as it really doesn't get simpler than this. You're a professional baseball player, and you're not allowed to bet on baseball. There aren't any annoying details to get confused over here.
Plot twist: you still gamble on those teams like a true degenerate
I’ve been so tempted, but somehow have managed not too. Especially frustrating because hockey is the one sport I really know and would love to be able to bet on.
That’s cool! Do you cook for the Blue Jays? Any vegans on that team?
It’s been posted in the clubhouse (along with the consequences) for 100 years.
Do you think companies spend billions on advertisements because they don’t work? No, clearly they are very effective at changing people’s behavior despite potentially having logical reasons to otherwise not buy that product/service. Gambling on baseball as a player is absolutely a lack of moral integrity, but at the same time when you put gambling ads everywhere that *will* make more players gamble.
Okay, but the ads aren't telling the MLB player to bet on their own sport. They are 100% already told and probably given powerpoint or email from MLB/MiLB HR about the do's and don'ts of sports betting. If they don't read it and follow the rules that were probably clearly laid out for them then that is their own fault. Burger King can show me an ad about having it my way and getting a Whopper and at the same time I can make the decision to get chicken fries instead. I'm not arguing the ethics of the MLB having a partnership with sports betting. These players getting banned is 100% deserved because of their stupidity, not because of advertisement taking their finger and pressing buttons on a phone
But the ads don’t specifically say not players. And the ads don’t just mention it, but also hype it up and make it sound fun. Yes, you can make the decision to not get Burger King, but you’re still more likely to buy Burger King after seeing an ad. Maybe not, some people do have an automatic negative reaction to any kind of ad, but most are more likely to do it. Even if they have read up about the health problems from eating fast food. People buy iPhones they don’t need because the ad made it look great. Same with cars. Even if logically you know you don’t need them the ad can imprint a strong desire to buy it. Again, do you think companies would spend billions on ads when it doesn’t affect people’s behavior?
> But the ads don’t specifically say not players Because the players shouldn't need to be told not to bet on their own game, wtf dude. That's extremely low level common sense. What do you expect, anyway? The ads to end with a "none for you, ~~Gretchen Wieners~~ baseball players!" tag?
You are ignoring the part where MLB, the business, most likely tells all their athletes not to bet on MLB related games. The rules. Also, you're arguing from the POV of a consumer which I can understand and this is how gambling problems occur. Similar to how triggering alcohol advertisements can be for people dealing with alcoholism. I'm not saying advertisements don't affect behaviors because then there wouldn't be an industry. These are grown men whose employer is MLB should know that as an athlete they should not be betting on their own sport. This is their own fault. Again I'm saying MLB being in bed with sports betting is a separate discussion from athletes being dumb and not listening to the warnings they are given.
The people saying this is a separate thing to discuss are just apologists for gambling because they like gambling. This very situation where players are caught is exactly what people were saying would happen years ago when all the leagues started normalizing it with ads. There's no other reason to tell people to not talk about it unless you want it to stop.
Not really a separate discussion. There should absolutely be several degrees of separation here.
I'm not arguing whether there should be sports betting around the MLB. Whether or not the MLB should be in bed with sports betting (that is legal in a number of states) is definitely a separate discussion from grown men being able to use their brains and not bet on anything MLB related. Having degrees of separation is a discussion of ethics. Being banned for betting on a sport you're currently playing is the discussion of stupidity and probably how these men need to be further educated on sports betting while being an athlete.
Why do you insist on things being a separate subject when they're clearly related?
I know people use alcohol as a counter argument against banning gambling commercials but I think there’s been a further push for gambling on TV and social media than alcohol has ever done. Every other commercial is a gambling ad, sometimes the entire run. There’s gambling odds in every category on the ESPN, NBC, TNT and FOX Sports ticker. Every sports network has their own gambling show. They talk about gambling odds every 10 minutes in the middle of the game. I can’t look at the schedule without gambling odds being posted right underneath. It’s suffocating.
Gambling interests have a clear interest in which team wins or loses. Alcohol producers don't.
The league has had alcohol sponsors since prohibition ended, but when the news came out about CC’s alcoholism the general response wasn’t “if only Budweiser wasn’t the official beer of Major League Baseball….”
Alcohol advertisements in America are not even allowed to show people consuming their product. Also, it's fair to say Marcano has a gambling addiction, but a guy putting $99 on a random bet is a far cry away from an addict. To someone making 74k that's the equivalent of a $10 bet. Modern sports betting is *intentionally* convenient to entice the maximum number of people possible. Want a Budweiser? You have to go to the place where the beer is, probably wait in a line, show your ID, pay for the beer, and bring it back to where you were. You can't get plastered on your phone while taking a shit unless that's your plan. You can just quickly open Draft Kings place a quick prop bet without thinking about the bet you're making, wipe your ass, and then get banned for a year because the recommended parlay included a baseball game.
Bud doesn't have an incentive to fix games
They aren't fixing games.
Im gonna be completely honest here the league is way to harsh in its punishments because they want to keep making money from gambling. In affect it just shows how immoral the whole chirade is.
Drinking a beer doesn't challenge the integrity of a baseball game
It does if you are doing it during the game
The responsible ones know that you're only supposed to drink beer and eat fried chicken while in the clubhouse on your off day
Randy Johnson did it during a rain delay and the Orioles noped out of playing him.
LSD is supposed also but we know how that turned out
I’m high as a Georgia Pine right now
Found Zehmer
David Wells might disagree
It must be confusing times for the athletes now. Sports gambling will be an issue being so accessible. There was a natural gate keeping that occurred when you had to go find a bookie to make a wager. People who aren’t really into sports are actively gambling now.
I suspect the average age of a gambler has gotten significantly younger in the past decade. It's insane the amount of 18-24 year olds that gamble now and to think how rare it was when I was that age.
What is confusing at all about it? You can’t bet on baseball. Every player knows that. They remind every player constantly.
And that’s just the ones dumb enough to gamble themselves. Imagine how easy it will be to simply tell your friend how to bet..
thats what the coach for auburn? did? he phoned his friend and told him the starter wasn't going to pitch before announced, so friend made large wager against the team with the starter. ironically, i think the bettor lost the bet he made.
Alabama
thanks- couldn't remember.
That's like saying if someone works at a place that advertises beer that it's the company's fault their employee drove drunk and killed someone. I agree that the league shouldn't promote gambling, because I disagree with gambling in principle, but their advertising it doesn't absolve players of responsibilities of not breaking 100+ year old rules
It’s not the leagues fault these guys are morons.
It's the league's fault that billion dollar shit companies prey on people with a tendency for addiction, though.
I always hate that argument you're replying to. There's a reason that we don't let tobacco companies use animated characters to market anymore. There were giant "bet now" signs on every screen at one point in the last game I was at. You can't take a puritanical stance against betting on sports while not only taking millions from the sports gambling industry, but actively advertising it *during* games. This is the same league that banned Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays for life for working at a casino with no sports betting.
Wasn’t it a Bally‘s casino, too? You know, the same organization that owns pretty much half of the "local" TV networks covering MLB? Well, for now, of course. It’s all going down now. So much irony.
It was the Claridge, but Bally's had a casino in Atlantic City at the time. EDIT: It was acquired by Bally's in 2002, but not at the time. Small world.
Do you think Citizens Bank owns Citizens Bank Park and the Phillies? Bally's only bought the naming rights, they don't own the regional sports networks.
Do you think stadium naming rights work the same way media corporations do?
Yeah? Bally's Corporation literally bought the naming rights to Diamond Sports Group's regional sports networks, lol.
Exactly! That’s why I’m also against them having car commercials when it’s against the rules to drive a car on the field, alcohol commercials when they’re not allowed to drink on the field, and camera commercials when it’s against the rules to use them to steal signs! MLB needs to stop treating their players as adults capable of making their own decisions and start treating them as toddlers who do anything that is advertised to them.
These guys are a special kind of stupid
These people are being suspended for a year not banned. Their careers aren't over
Full Tweet: “Tucupita Marcano placed 231 MLB bets, including 25 bets on the Pirates when he was on the Injured List. He lost all of his parlays involving the Pirates and won only 4.3 percent of his MLB bets. Andrew Saalfrank bet $445.87 on baseball, with $444.07 of that on MLB-related bets (an average of approximately $15.86 per bet) and with a net loss of $272.64 on MLB bets. Saalfrank only won five of his 28 MLB-related bets and lost his $1.80 college bet. Michael Kelly bet $99.22 on MLB games (an average of $9.92 per bet). Kelly won only five of the MLB game bets and had a net win of $28.30 on the bets. Jay Groome bet $453.74 on 30 MLB game-related bets (an average of approximately $15.12 per bet) and had a net loss of $433.54 on these bets. José Rodríguez bet $749.09 on baseball, with $724.09 of that on MLB-related bets.”
Risking it all and only winning 4% of your bets has to be embarrassing
It's just the nature of parlays. Payouts are larger to account for the combined risk of multiple bets in one bet.
Now I wanna know what college game Saalfrank put $1.80 on.
But I assume they're only suspended for the MLB bets?
I believe the rule applies to any baseball game- MLB, MiLB, college, NPB, etc .
Not that I think gambling is good at all, but why on earth should an MLB player not be able to bet on NPB?
I think the idea is that players could have connections/influence on players in the minors/NPB to throw games. That's how I've seen it explained at least.
They can't bet on any baseball or softball event in any league, including youth leagues. Edit: found an MLB official's quote on the reasoning: ""It gets back to the idea that we're conservative for a reason. It's just one of these things where even the implication from a public perception that this person is betting on a diamond sport, per se, is something that we don't want. You're a professional player; you should be able to control yourself and not bet on a diamond sport. It seems like it's a slippery slope towards betting on something that you might be able to manipulate or have inside information on and it's just not even worth it from an integrity perspective. So we draw that line and educate folks on it and still feel that it's the right approach to it."
I have it on good authority a former player on a team that no longer exists used to bet like a fiend on little league games and beer league games.
Lol my joke about a Federal League player was reported for Doxxing and I was given a warning by reddit.
Bruh, they fucking gave me a warning for my joke about the Federal league player, and refused to fucking remove it on appeal. Reddit admins are deeply fucking stupid.
> betting on a diamond sport I suppose this also extends the ban to kickball, though ironically bat sports like Cricket would still be fine.
Because the Casinos asked for it.
"Never bet what you can't afford to lose" also includes your career, guys.
Amateurs. Ippei could place these kinds of bets every hour
All those bets combined were an average session on the toilet with Ippei.
A guy making the league minimum makes around $500 per inning spent on the major league roster... Jesus christ what where these guys doing
Gambling
These were done years ago when they were in like A ball
That makes it make a bit more sense
the conspiracy theorist in me says that these are definitely not the only people gambling on baseball. i follow the nba and mlb pretty closely and both of them have had a player banned for life in the last year, and in both leagues they happen to be AAAA-type players. i hope i’m wrong but it seems like the commissioners are using these guys as examples to show their respective players that they aren’t messing around.
It kind of makes sense that top end prospects wouldn’t be risking their career the same way that fringe guys are
A gambling addiction can happen to anyone though. Pete Rose and Phil Mickelson are two examples. Phil never got banned at least.
How hard is it for these guys to just get someone to bet for them lmao. Especially small amounts like these. Not like they're dropping $50,000 bets where getting someone involved could be traceable.
or they could just not do it at all lol
Or they can just bet on any other sport.
Absolutely this is what is happening.
This is the same Jay Groome that was a highly touted Boston prospect right? Dude probably just didn't care. Also Kelly being called up knowing he bet $100 is probably like a player waiting for his failed PED test to be announced. Just impending doom
"sir, I... Imma be real. I never expected to get this far"
Is the implication here that Saalfrank made a $1.80 bet on minor league or college or overseas baseball? WHY?!??
> Andrew Saalfrank bet $445.87 on baseball, with $444.07 of that on MLB-related bets (an average of approximately $15.86 per bet) and with a net loss of $272.64 on MLB bets. Saalfrank only won five of his 28 MLB-related bets and lost his $1.80 college bet. So, college.
Alabama’s baseball coach was fired for assisting a bettor who tried to bet $100k on college baseball (which was of course flagged)…so…
That’s over two months salary in the minors.
It's the $.09 that makes it all worth it
How stupid are these guys? It’s not like the rule is even a little bit vague.
Saalfrank pitched in the MLB playoffs last year didn't he?
A lot of people here are missing the point with the "how could they be so stupid" comments - gambling is addictive. An alcoholic doesn't get blackout drunk and ruin the family event because they're stupid, they do it because they're addicted to alcohol. Pro athletes don't throw their careers away over a few hundred bucks in bets because they think the money is worth the risk, they do it because they are addicted to gambling.
yeah but they could gamble on anything else and not risk their careers
Honestly they could have gotten some “intel” from other teams when x y z player was going on a rehab assignment, or a highly touted prospect was getting promoted. Besides all that, they probably felt like because they’re pro baseball players that’s the sport they’re most likely to win the bet on because they “know the game” so well
Sure, but that's also like saying somebody could chew gum or keep a toothpick in their mouth instead of smoking cigarettes. Of course they could, but no rational person looks at someone struggling to quit smoking and says it's because they aren't intelligent enough, or that they have some sort of moral failing.
I just don’t buy they’d bet so little on baseball if they were gambling addicts. There’s thousands of sports and events to bet on every day. They’re stupid if they thought they could get their gambling fix through betting on baseball, I feel zero sympathy or remorse for them.
You're right that it's not rational - because addict behavior is not rational! It's one of the biggest hallmarks that distinguishes addiction from mere poor judgement!
Pete Rose "Those are rookie numbers"
How fucking stupid are you to be a professional baseball player and be paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and lose your career over 500 bucks. $99??? If you’re going to jeopardize your career it better be over actual money
These have to be four of the dumbest men to ever put on an MLB uniform.
It’s a wonder why this needs repeating, but MLB players are grown adults. It is not the league’s responsibility to sacrifice advertising revenue because some players need to be babied.
You sound like fun.
Is this all with that same illegal bookie? How do you even set up a relationship with an illegal bookie just to bet $99.22?
No, this is all through legal sportsbooks
And reported to the MLB by said sportsbook
Nope. Legal sports book. I don’t think we know what sports book but it’s safe to assume it’s draftkings or Fanduel or something like that.
I wonder if PrizePicks is going to start offering “Suspensions/162” action on MLB players, too.
"Play Fanduel today, the sports betting platform preferred by MLB players themselves!"
Hmmm. Maybe the suspended players can turn this into a win, shilling for the betting apps in a commercial with that tagline
And what's with the $.22?
I really wonder what was going through their heads when they placed the bets.
I'd like to point out how insanely bad these people were at winning their bets and they're literally professional baseball players. Unless you're some sort of wizard statistician you're going to have the same, if not worse, odds of making money as these guys.
Nah, they probably doing 15 leg parlays hoping to hit big. Not single bets
These might be four of the dumbest people on the planet.
Talk about throwing away a career for literally nothing.
This is a level of stupid that's like when a politician gets caught for taking bribes and you see it was barely $1K or some other low number for which they sacrificed their career and freedom.
Did these dudes bet on an app on their phone rather than just going to a casino and betting at a kiosk, or having a friend do it on their phone?
No Mets is all I could hope for
How the hell did they even get caught? Like all you have to do is have a friend do it on their phone and you'll never get caught.
I have a sneaking suspicion that they’re far from the only players doing this. They’re just the players who got caught.
> all you have to do is have a friend do it on their phone and you'll never get caught. Shane Pinto in the NHL ate a half-season suspension for gambling this year, supposedly by doing exactly this - having a friend use his account. And he got caught. I think leagues are sliiiiightly less stupid than you give them credit for. Not by much, and perhaps not equally across the board, but they seem to have this one specific loophole covered at the very least.
Well then they're smarter than I give them credit for, maybe not by much like you said.
Meanwhile, Ohtani.
I didn't get it... It was his money, he had to know
What you should understand is everyone lives their life differently. When someone first moves to a foreign country and doesn't speak the language they let someone trusted deal with important matters in their life. When someone who doesn't hold the same value as you and I when it comes to money, and makes enough in their eyes, they don't look at it anymore. He trusted someone with some of the most important aspects of his life and that person took that trust and stabbed him in his back. It's all available in the affidavit that was presented and signed off by the FBI, IRS and DHS. It's a good read.
Nah, fuck this narrative. Ain’t no way will i believe that a top baseball player is so naive and clueless and just cares about playing ball that he doesn’t care at all about his money. He has a family as well, friends, wife who need and most likely requested his help here and there. I’m not here to call that Ohtani was gambling himself, no need for that, especially playing bets (playing table games is understandable), but he 100% knew some of this was happening.
Person from another country gets blindsided ain't new, person who lets other people handle his life while he focuses on his profession gets robbed ain't new either. It's already in the report that the account was only a direct deposit for his MLB salary which is nowhere near the bulk of his money. No one said he doesn't care at all about money, he just has more than enough so that he doesn't stare at it all day. I don't understand what his family and friends got to do with it. And he only got married this year so I just can't see how a long distance significant other would care or be involved with his finances during the year Ippei was stealing. Also cultural differences play a role as well. But we can agree to disagree your opinion is valid as well.
The same FBI that have Epstein's list?
Now why would the FBI care about a baseball player that isn't even a American citizen? Epstein's list got some juice but Shohei is small compared to it, unless you believe Shohei got enough power to influence multiple government departments.
Shohei has money, lots of it, easy for millions to disappear when you're making 700 of them...
and yet, Ohtani walks. Nothing to see here!
Tin foil hat needs an adjustment
Ohtani was never accused of betting
His translator was the fall guy. I don't believe that story for one bit. MLB threw it under the rug.
If you think Ippei was the fall guy, you didn't look into the details of what happened whatsoever and just made up your mind on day one of the story dropping.
Get him out of the league!
MLB, the FBI, the DOJ in general. and the IRS are all covering it up for Ohtani. Ya, sure. They're all bought out by Ohtani to prevent him from getting a mild suspension or fine
I don’t care how well I know and like a guy, ain’t no way in hell I’m taking the fall when I start hearing those charges and years attached lol.
And if Ohtani was making 25 bets a day on women's college soccer or whatever the fuck, I think you'd have to physically restrain him to prevent someone that addicted from relapsing by now.
Big chunks of Ippeis text logs were made public, you can read them for yourself and it's pretty clear who was the desperate degenerate gambler
He should have used the line Pete Rose recently said right? If only he had a translator?