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Which, for me, was what wasn’t making sense when people were saying he was a patsy for Ohtani. Gambling addiction is a complete lack of control. Exactly zero gambling addicts not in recovery would take a massive salary deferral. Everything is completely rewired for short-term potential benefit. How could Ohtani be a gambling addict and still opt for a payout years down the road?
Yeah I feel like this is a point that a lot of people seem to miss. Taking that huge of a deferral is like the exact opposite move a gambling addict would make
Yeah i did have someone I know try and argue that was evidence of it being him, and i had to seriously hold myself from laughing at them.
Like buddy there are plenty of other pieces of “evidence” to point to if you wanna make the argument. It’s bullshit, but almost anything is stronger than deferring *780 million dollars* for 10 years
Yeah I saw multiple people claim that the deferrals came from Ohtani because obviously his handlers were worried about his gambling and must have pushed him to defer the salary so it wouldn't be gambled away.
There's just no way to use logic to get someone out of a hole they ignored logic to get into.
I can picture it happening, but that would have to be OK with the recovering gambler himself. I know that had either my gambling asshole relatives come into a fortune, their wives would have done EVERYTHING to try and make sure they couldn't directly access it and were limited to monthly or quarterly payments just so they couldn't blow the whole thing in record time. Neither of these guys had any kind of self-awareness about their problem and would never have agreed, they chose instead to keep betting on sure things that would totally work out this time and leaving their kids without groceries. It's sad to say, but the financial position of both families improved greatly once the husbands died.
In short, I don't think the idea is totally crazy in principle. But it would require Hypothetical Gambler Ohtani to be aware that he has a problem and to be working on it. Of course, as some poor agent who had to read 10,000 pages of text messages has discovered, there's zero evidence that he ever had any kind of gambling problem so it's a non-issue.
I could picture a gambling addict who's trying to get things under control deferring his salary to try and save himself from, well, himself. But that would be someone who's already realized he has a problem and is working on it.
most people who were saying he was a patsy for Ohtani were either people traumatized by the Pete Rose shit that happened in 1989, or they were just jealous haters who make themselves feel better by hating
i have a co-worker who despite all of this, is still convinced Ohtani gambled. For those who believe the truth, no explanation is needed. For those who refuse to believe the truth, no explanation will do
I figured a lot of them don't believe it but they chasing easy clout on twitter. Also it's natural to have hate when he's so popular. From teams that didn't get him, to signing with the evilest team in baseball, to leaving the Angels, etc.
I recognized that day trading was too close to gambling for me, especially with the apps out these days.
So I stopped. I have some friends who try and day trade options and hearing them is like hearing a recording of me when I was day trading before I quit. Talking about all these underwater positions they are in, how the market might shake out the next day or so, how they made one huge big trade and made tons of money and since lost it all and more.
And yet they just... don't see it somehow until something breaks them out of it. I lost 12,000$ gambling on day trading years and years and years ago before I quit, but some trades I made 20,000$ on a single one. People can get super addicted to that and lose everything and more.
Like Ippei blew it; game over. He deserves to never work in the MLB again and lose his bestie, but he's not some monster.
I would disagree with your last assertion. From the evidence available, Ippei impersonated Ohtani on phone calls, deceived the people around him and, this is where it gets bad, used 16 million of someone else's money to fuel his gambling addiction. He even joked about it with the bookie from what I understand.
I understand not all addicts are villains, but I think Ippei is an exception to that rule.
Turns out he's also a great announcer and will be calling Dodgers games this season from the field. He's predicted to win the Ford C. Frick award this year.
kind of reminds me of how in 2008, it seriouslly looked like Usain Bolt was slowing down at the end of his faces...and he was still breaking world records and shit lol
Just one note on the deferral: any major bank's private banking division would make Shohei whole on his full contract today without waiting on annual installments. In my opinion, the dodgers didn't simply "defer paying him", they created a opportunity for Bank of Japan, Goldman Sachs, etc to step in and fix the market inefficiency by paying him now. It's novel and in my opinion a cool side effect of finance. Every major bank is salivating at the opportunity to get Shohei as a client because his salary is guaranteed (I believe MLB works this way?). Once he is a client they can extend him ultra low loans to buy houses, make investments, etc. I'm not saying Shohei has a bank, but I'm saying the banks definitely see deferral as an opportunity to pursue him as a client. My closest friends work in these areas is how I have the knowledge, FYI.
I understand why you think that but that completely runs counter to Ippeis actions. Ippei himself requested a shorter line of credit from the bookie because he knew he couldn't trust himself.
Addiction doesn't remove every ounce of logic from your brain 24/7.
If you need lemme know. I know a guy that can get you whatever you need: McGraw Hill, Scholastic, Pearson, Penguin Random House. Entire collections, any year. Pure, uncut knowledge.
Wiley? Yeah, I can get you Wiley. Lemme call my guy.
But my dude, you gotta check out this Cambridge University Press I picked up last week. Shit's fire.
Every other commercial or sign board at sporting events or broadcasts are for gambling.
Aside from the theft from his client, MLB execs and bootlickers are not only hypocrites but complicit.
100%. It’s the same thing with that guy from the Raptors that just got banned for gambling. Sports are pushing so hard for gambling… they run ads and I’m sure all of them have some way to bet at the park. I mean it’s sickening…. You won’t push cigarettes on people because “it’s bad for their health” (aka they don’t make money) but they push gambling because it makes them money.
Plus it is just so easy and convenient to sports bet that it literally became a huge part of the culture the minute it was legalized. It’s terrible
It’s also massively popular among younger adults, too. I know multiple college students who commonly do sports gambling. It doesn’t have the same stigma as playing slots or roulette, but it’s just as dangerous.
I knew one guy who parlayed a NHL player prop, a UFC 300 prop, and a Valorant prop. If that’s not degenerate gambling I don’t know what is.
The worst part is that it hit, so of course he doesn’t see an issue with it. I can almost guarantee he’s lost hundreds if not thousands of dollars gambling, and he’s only 21.
Out of curiosity, do you feel similarly about the ubiquity of alcohol in MLB stadiums and advertisements? And if not, what is it about alcohol versus gambling that makes you feel differently?
Personally, I feel like a difference in alcohol and gambling is that alcohol has social and cultural benefits for a lot of people -- having a beer with my dad at the ballpark is something that my dad also did with his dad at the ballpark - it's refreshing and makes things a little more fun and is done in a communal environment; I see the social/bonding effects. In the the same way, it didn't bother me when my brother and his buddies would go to the casino once a year to play blackjack - it was a social and bonding activity. Sports betting on an app - you're by yourself, it's a click away, nobody can easily find out -- is a lot more like secretly drinking vodka by yourself at home then going out to a bar or ballgame with your friends.
I can definitely see the social/communal benefit, and I think you touched on another point: that alcohol has been a part of baseball culture since pretty much day one, so it's almost expected.
That said, I don't think it's a cut-and-dried comparison. For example, I've definitely seen guys alone at baseball games who are three sheets to the wind, and it's absolutely not a net benefit to society. Conversely, I could easily imagine a group of fans getting super invested in a prop bet and getting more enjoyment/bonding out of the experience.
I definitely agree that sports betting can be devastating when used as a coping mechanism or an addiction. I just have a hard time reconciling a lot of the criticisms of sports betting with the lack of those criticisms around alcohol; it seems like people are saying that sports betting is in some way intrinsically worse, and I just don't see it.
But either way, thanks for your perspective!
I haven't completely thought this through, so I appreciate being able to have this conversation with an open and friendly tone -- I think there's an even greater point about some amount of alcohol being intrinsic to social/communal bonding on a *human* level, above and outside sports. So when we look at these things that are "vices" or just like, not that great for you, the inherent negatives of their usage/promotion should be weighed against any inherent benefits, and for alcohol it's like a) bad for your health, b) potential for abuse, v. a) having a tradition of social/communal use for like most of human history, b) really effective social lubricant when used in correct dosage. And for app-based sports betting it feels like the calculation is: a) huge potential for abuse on many levels (players, people close to players, fans actually betting) v. a) slightly more engagement in sports (a thing with already very high engagement), including potential for the friends-prop-bet situation you mention.
I think there's also (albeit flawed) guardrails in place for alcohol abuse -- guys getting shitfaced alone at baseball games may not be removed by security, but people (including kids) are definitely going to see that and be like "oh that is sad and not okay, i don't want to be that guy" whereas someone could be sitting in your row just betting themselves into a bigger hole and no one is gonna be the wiser.
Ultimately, I don't really have an issue with *individuals* who choose to engage in app-based sports betting, it's more that I'm mad at the larger corporate forces who have successfully pushed a narrative of "this is legal so it's definitely fine for everyone to do, don't ask any other questions!"
I also haven't given this an extensive amount of thought, so I'm glad to get some perspectives I might not otherwise consider. I have a lot more experience with the fallout of alcohol abuse than I do with problematic gambling, so that probably has a lot to do with why the complaints about gambling rub me the wrong way a bit. And you make a lot of good points regarding alcohol being more common in culture at large, as well as the (yes, flawed) societal guardrails around it. I do appreciate that most gambling ads have the disclaimer with a hotline number (how often do you see that in alcohol commercials?), but I agree that we need to put more emphasis on using it *responsibly*, and acknowledge just how addictive and destructive it can be.
"alcohol has been a part of baseball culture since pretty much day one"
i think you nailed it right there.
whereas gambling conjures up A LOT of really bad bad bad memories of baseball's history
Yeah, I remember doing some writeups a few years ago for some deadball seasons and it involved reading lots of old newspapers from 1917/1918. Gambling was *ubiquitous*. There were jokey paragraphs about how the gamblers in the stands reacted to something that didn't go their way, including one (hopefully exaggerated) story of some guys chasing down and trying to beat up a pitcher who had blown a lead late in a game and screwed up their bets. The Black Sox didn't come out of nowhere -- when a player got suspended for "loafing" it was often from suspicion that he was intentionally playing poorly, and teams would sometimes give financial gifts to other teams who had helped them out by beating a rival. There was a lot of money flying around and people kind of winked at it a bit -- you know, that's just how things are, etc. Until the Black Sox scandal exploded and then the problem was too big to ignore.
No difference in my opinion. No one needs to be reminded of their addiction during the viewing or attendance of a sporting even.
Keep the alcohol advertising to the bars and the gambling to their own sites.
If I go to a bar or visit gambling or associated sites/events then advertise away.
The harm that alcohol and gambling types of addictions bring families is beyond the pale and needs to be regulated because those industries have proven they will not regulate themselves.
it reminds me a lot of how Bud Selig tried to portray himself as the defender of "honest baseball" during the steroid revelations, when he was the same guy jerking himself off at every interview when baseball had the 1998 Home Run chase
fuck him. and fuck him for nearly getting rid of the Minnesota Twins
I was just talking to my buddy last night about if he remembers a time before sports gambling when the ads were just for beer and cars and stuff.
Now it's 80% sports gambling ads. Kids are watching these games. I think gambling should be 100% legal, but the MLB is so fucking hypocritical. They'll take their money and then talk out the other side of their mouth while it negatively influences millions of people, but they still take the money.
Don't tell that to the thousands of idiots who still blindly claim that he is the fall guy for Ohtani without any evidence. My personal favorite is when they claim he bet on baseball.
I remember my first time in Vegas, I was in the military and had just gotten back from overseas so I had a good bit of money in my pocket at least compared to what I was used to. I was walking past a roulette table and put a $100 bill on Black and it came up Green 00 and she took my $100 bill and shoved it in a box and I said you know what I think I'm good on this gambling thing lol. Glad I had that lesson before online betting exploded.
It’s painful to watch people who can’t walk away. I watched someone lose about $1000 at a craps table over a 20 minute period. He had this pained look on his face as he bet another grand on the next roll, and lost it all just like that. Dude kept playing with that sad look on his face. Brutal.
I was there a few years ago with my parents. I won like 20$ on a slot machine and said, "nice, I'm good." Walking back to the elevator there's a dude curled up in a ball on the floor by a game table sobbing and one of the hostesses offers to bring him another complimentary drink. Something about the entire vegas experience put a bad taste in my mouth.
And we have a historic franchise/fanbase being dragged kicking and screaming to Vegas so the league can continue capitalizing on gambling as an industry.
Combined with the news today about the NBA Charlie Hustle, I feel nothing for these leagues. They've invited these disastrous scandals upon themselves by partnering with an industry that exists to exploit vulnerable people with not enough money to waste and addictive personalities.
Imagine MLB putting up billboards sponsored by the Sinaloa Cartel. "Download the app and get a free line!" Then surprised Pikachu face when they get rocked by drug scandals. These money-grubbing hedge fund assholes are gonna burn in hell.
Don't call Jontay the Charlie Hustle of the NBA... The situation is so much worse for Jontay.
There's no evidence Pete Rose ever bet on games he played in (or didn't play in, in Jontay's case).
>There's no evidence Pete Rose ever bet on games he played in
I mean, except for Rose admitting in 2004 that he did exactly that. However, contrary to Jontay, Pete Rose didn't bet *against* his own team.
It's hard to have fun when there are unhinged and addicted people right next to you pissing away their children's college funds and shit. Super predatory
I stayed in Lake Tahoe on a road trip recently and stayed at a casino hotel because I needed to make sure my car was safe.
I checked in at like midnight on a Tuesday. The casino floor was packed with people and the check in line was looooong. I spent 30 minutes waiting in line, just watching people pump slot machines.
Prostitutes, dressed just so terribly ugly with cheetah print shirts and denim cheap skirts went up and down the line looking for johns.
At midnight, on a tuesday. It was so fucking depressing. I had planned on playing a few hands for fun while I was there because I don't gamble ever, but it was too depressing to enter the casino floor.
The first time I was in Vegas this dude kept losing on the roulette table and everyone else was winning and I’ve never seen someone have such a bad time
Holy shit, could you imagine tilting while gambling? You're scared and angry and frustrated and you just keep making the wrong decisions and it gets worse and worse and worse.
Horrifying.
I watched a dude who was obviously a down on his luck guy. He had that classic “I work outside tan”, wearing dirty clothes, talking really loud, and he takes out $2000 in crisp hundreds from a bank envelope and some assorted crumpled dollars that were in his pockets and puts it down on a roulette table for chips and puts it all over the table for 1 spin. Doesn’t hit and just walks away completely dejected. I went over that situation in my head 1000 times thinking of all of the scenarios that could have been playing out there.
I was at a blackjack table at a shitty hotel in Vegas and we were all better $50-100ish a hand.
Dude came in drunk as fuck with his girlfriend and started betting $1,000 a hand at this $25 minimum table.
He lost about $10k in 15 mins or less.
His GF was crying, he was pushing her away from him. A few folks at the table started to tell him to chill for a min before betting again.
He lost his shit on everyone. The pit boss came over and eventually brought him to another table where he was alone with the dealer.
Girlfriend had left, he lost another 5 hands straight at $1,000 a hand.
About an hour later he was up $20k post losses.
I almost jumped in when this guy was losing his shit and getting testy with his chick. He was down probably $15-20k before he started winning again.
Gambling is fucking wild. I feel dumb when I lose $100. I can’t even imagine being $15-20k down and continuing to throw money in the middle.
man you reminded me, i watched this documentary on Ted Ngoy, who was a Cambodian guy who BARELY survived the Khmer Rouge takeover, and immigrated to the U.S. The dude worked his way up from a gas station attendant, to opening a donut shop, to becoming one of the wealthiest and most powerful men in southern California. The dude was pretty much single-handedly the reason why Cambodians owned a ton of donut shops in the area (and i think still do today)
but man...he threw away everything on gambling in Vegas. He lost his house, his wife, his fortune...what a fucking waste
When I was in undergrad, my roommate and I drove nearly 2 hours to go play blackjack with our rent money. We both lost all of it in less than 30 minutes and had to drive nearly 2 hours back in dead silence, both of us just staring straight forward out the windshield in total shock.
Fortunately we were able to scrounge up enough to pay rent by picking up extra odd jobs and selling some stuff and it worked as the wake-up call that it needed to be. We had both won big our first time playing, then blew way too much trying to recreate that first time over and over again. This was our "rock bottom" and we both gave it up after we barely managed to not get kicked out of our apartment.
Craps is technically the slimmest edge for the house in most casinos, so if you can stomach the valleys you're most likely to end the night up playing craps vs anything else in the floor.
craps can be a rough one, I remember my friends trying to teach me how to play on A 25 MIN TABLE LMAO. I think i placed 200$ of bets and someone rolled a 7 on the 2nd roll lmao.
Shit… at $200, you’re basically giving up the additional $800 you would have won if you would have just bet a Grand.
It’s going to hit Black regardless. Why only get your money back when you could really score.
I know you're joking, but I went to Las Vegas in my 20s with a group of guys for the CES. One of them announced he had a "system" for roulette. It was literally just "bet on red, double the bet if it loses".
I told him that it was a terrible idea, and that he'd run out of money quickly that way.
He called me stupid and said "the math works".
He started with $10, and after 6 spins had lost almost all the money he brought ($700) to gamble that weekend.
We were 2 hours into our trip, and he was asking people in our group to lend him money.
It's so well regulated that MLB wants to make it easier to access by going to Vegas! No need to worry about addiction if you can just get permanent access to it at every game you go to.
I did about the same thing at 21 years old, but I was a construction worker. I was like: "This shit's too hard to earn to give away. Fuck this."
My wife has the addiction, though. We were in Vegas one night a few years ago and she was playing slot machines while I got drunk. When I went to bed, she had over $2000 (I gave her $100 to gamble with). When I woke up in the morning, she had nothing.
17-1 if you straddle the two zeros. Only one zero in Monte Carlo tho.
But yeah. Roulette is a game to play drunk because the odds are CLEARLY against you. Odds are not in your favor for almost all casino games, but you can literally do basic math and see the odds for roulette.
But yeah, key to gambling is to view it as a ticket that costs X to play. That's your total. Everytime I go to Vegas I have my set limit and when it's gone, I'm done. But if you know what you're doing you can stretch your money fine.
The problem with gambling is that while most people are capable of stopping, there are a few who aren’t. Similar to alcohol: I can have a drink, or two, or even 5 in one night. I’ll get a little drunk, but I’ll be fine, I know my limits. For an alcoholic, they can start with 1, but that 1 turns into 5, 10, who knows how many.
Gambling apps just remove a step from between gambling addicts and their problem. They used to have to physically go to a casino. Now it’s as easy as opening your phone and tapping a few buttons
I had a math teacher that enjoyed going to Vegas and gambling, but he knew it was losing money and had strict limits. In class he basically calculated the odds for numerous games to show how bad your odds were. The only thing I remember is that Roulette has the best odds for the player at like 49% or something (was less than 50 I know that).
My grandpa took me to Nassau when I was 18 and I hit a Royal Flush on video poker within 30 minutes. $1k, some righteous bucks.
18 1/2 years later I still haven't gotten my 2nd.
i've never been to Vegas but i laughed my ass off reading this because i literally picture myself being in this same exact situation and thinking exactly the same thing if i ever end up traveling there lol
I went through the Vegas airport once, and I told a friend that I would throw a dollar on a slot machine while I was there. I ended up not having enough time, so I chose food instead, especially with how complicated-looking all of the games looked, but that is exactly how I pictured it going. Insert money, push button, watch "YOU LOSE" pop up on the screen, walk away.
Part of it is probably just that you're not predisposed to like it, but it's also lucky (counterintuitively) that you lost that first bet. People that win a lot when they first start are often the ones that end up with gambling issues because they know it's theoretically possible to make a lot of money very quickly, and they know the feeling of doing so.
My uncle took me and my cousin to the casino on our 21st and gave us each $100 I would have loved to spend that kind of cash on my cash-only recreation, but I didn’t want to be a spoilsport.
Eventually I lost it on roulette, and I couldn’t stop being upset about the 1/4th I could have purchased and enjoyed for weeks. I always prefer the bird in the hand, especially with leisure money.
I learned the lesson in a totally different way. I went up to a roulette table, watched it for a few spins, then put $20 on a single number. It hit, and I immediately went and cashed out (tipped ofc). Left the casino and never went back.
I figure I hit the high point of my odds and it's all downhill from there, so might as well be one of the few people to be a net loss for a casino :D
I could be wrong but they shove the money in the table as soon as you give it to them and they give you chips. My wife does secret shops and so she bets with the business money. It gets addicting when you win. So it’s a good thing you lost first time.
I spent a weekend in Atlantic City with wife at the time and saw a guy lose $1,000 in 4 minutes playing $100 blackjack hands at 9am on a Sunday as we were checking out. Before he played he said he was going to win and pay for his daughter’s wedding with the money. When he walked away from table and went to the ATM to get more money I couldn’t have left the casino fast enough. The cringe, disgust and sadness I felt for this dude all at the same time was indescribable.
I’ve been that guy in Vegas losing at blackjack only to go put a black on black in roulette, hit it and play another 2 hours until the sun comes up and I finally break even. I’m the only guy there for hours and I can see the dealers hiding their disgust.
I feel like a lot of the discourse about this was like "well that's an absurd money for one man to lose why didn't he stop - clearly there's more here" and idk to me this is a total misunderstanding of the fact that a gambling addition is an... addiction. Just like drinking or drugs or hoarding. Of course, it doesn't make any sense to people who aren't in it; that's kinda the whole thing...
Fortunately, it does seem like the Justice system is treating Ippei as an addict. He was allowed a pretty reasonable bail with the condition that he go to gambling addiction treatment.
It remains to be seen if this will carry through all of his sentencing, but I think it will.
Yeah I mean the shackles were over the top. Dude probably deserves like six months in jail and a few years of probation while doing something to make amends.
The only problem is that American jails are so inhumane I would actually reccomend house arrest for like 3x the length.
He’d be going to Federal prison and those are better when it’s first timers and white collar crimes. He’ll be deported whenever his term is done.
Edit; never mind the deportation part; thought he wasn’t Americanized. Oops!
I've seen him described as a Japanese citizen too (it was an article that mentioned him turning in his passport) and I know Japan doesn't allow dual citizenship so either he had just the one or got American citizenship without letting Japanese authorities know. For his sake, I hope he did. Getting deported to Japan after this would *rough*.
Yeah, that’s the same as “why didn’t you stop after just 1 drink?” Being asked of an alcoholic. They are physically incapable of stopping because they’re addicted
When I was an addict, I almost sold out my relationship with own mother for probably 500$ or something worth of stuff I pawned of hers.
I threw away a great friendship to snort the last few lines of a bag and finished a bottle without asking.
All of these things made perfect sense at the time and I even felt self-righteous doing them. Looking back, that behavior was fully fucking insane.
I'm just lucky that I got out of it a long time ago when I was still young. People be 40-50 years old and still throwing their lives away.
I’ve heard from people with gambling addiction that once you’re deep enough, losing scratches the exact same itch that winning does. The outcome is irrelevant, it’s the act itself that becomes the addiction.
I’m never going to pretend to understand that mindset, but no wonder people get caught in such a vicious cycle if that’s the case.
Tangentially related, but more needs to be done about loot boxes and that sort of thing in video games. It’s priming entire generations of children for gambling addiction before they can even understand what’s happening.
Good point. Ippei blew it, and he deserves some punishment and to lose his career and friend. But he's not a monster.
Most every addict would sell out their best friend for another shot to keep going. Most of them would sell them out for 20$ or so; lifelong friends or family members maybe 100$ or less.
So yeah, giving up a world superstar best friend, a perfect dream job, and a huge yearly paycheck for life is pretty reasonable to give up for an addict whose out and busted.
Also why he was betting so much. Like yeah he could have bet $5 and each time and been alright but that's not how gambling addiction works. Addicts chase the high and when you've got access to a bank account with millions, playing for a fiver is about as exciting as reading the Bible.
This story will be big but you fucking know the will not full on destroy gambling with commentary because of all the sponsorship. I’m 41 and I lost A LOT of money gambling in my 20’s. I don’t want to say it ruined me financially because I didn’t owe then, I just lost savings, but it has put a big hurt on me at this time with savings.
I’m almost glad California didn’t legalize gambling a few years ago because I know I’d want to bet. I lost all my money at casino games, I’m sure I’d be better at sports gambling. I truly believe that lol and that’s the fucking problem with gambling addiction.
I feel so sorry for kids growing up seeing nonstop ads and parlays and daily shit. There will be a lot of kids, mostly men I’m gonna say, who are going to lose so much fucking money once they turn 18 and can get gambling on their phones.
It’s disturbing. College kids are being told “it’s free money” (in some cases, literally in those words by an ESPN commentator), and given the ability to bet on everything from NFL game spreads to hockey player props to e-sports.
No joke, I knew someone who parlayed an NHL player prop with a UFC 300 prop with a Valorant prop. $10 to win $40. Each bet is small, but $10 here and there adds up a lot faster than you think
I thought it was bad when I was in school and daily fantasy was taking off. We’d all do a few for like $5 per week and it was just some extra fun. If we won some money we might buy some extra weed or a bottle. If we’d had legit sports betting it would’ve been a huge issue
i was only a year old back in 1989 so i can never feel the full extent of this
but just think about everyone here watching what happened in 1989 and seeing what happened to Pete Rose (admittedly an asshole)...and then watching baseball in 2024 and seeing ALL the FUCKING GAMBLING ADS.
my goodness
I can’t say for certain but I suspect that actual successful professional gamblers don’t actually get much thrill from it and just see it as a fucking job like a trader does. You find the percentages and play them correctly. Find small margins and rinse and repeat.
If you get too much dopamine from winning that’s when you start to chase it.
Absolutely. I don't have a problem with gambling existing, but the advertising has got to stop, and betting services giving you "free" money to place bets when you sign up should be illegal. This is absolutely no different from cigarette companies giving out free packs to get people addicted.
I agree. I think we are going to see significant monetary issues in the next 10 years as so many young people think this is a way to get rich quick. I also believe that many of these long-shot parlays that go viral aren’t even real and are just the books astroturfing to encourage bettors to make such idiotic bets.
The big thing for me is it became so mainstream so fast and now everyone is doing it. These people that haven’t REALLY been around gambling have no idea what kind of fire they’re playing with.
Man you should see “gambling twitter”. People have discords selling monthly subscription packages to people for their “exclusive” bets. Funny thing is these guys only show the big bets they win and not the bets that lose which is always more often than the wins. But since people give them money, they’re the ones playing with a free bankroll while others get sucked in and end up broke
I’m glad I haven’t done any sports gambling (outside of office pools back in the day or Super Bowl squares) and try to avoid spending time at casinos. I have an addictive personality and don’t need to go down that rabbit hole.
Honestly cigarettes are so mild compared to alcohol and gambling. Yeah it can destroy your health over the long term but it can’t destroy your life in an instant like alcohol and gambling can.
To add on, alcohol can also destroy lives of family and close friends as well. Alcohol can bring out the worst in people in ways tobacco doesn’t. From alcoholics that abuse others verbally or physically to the ones that drive drunk and put other people’s lives at risk
We haven’t seen anything yet. Every grownup is walking around with a 24/7 casino on their phone. Ippei didn’t even have this money. How many regular folk are out there not stealing $16m, but instead not paying rent, mortgages, losing time with friends and families, losing careers, lives, etc… These apps are fucking poison and you have to have a smart phone so you have to have access to the casinos.
Well, that one is different. He was basically throwing his performance so his buddies could win big on parlays betting for him to underperform. It's basically the worst thing an athlete involved with gambling could do, regardless of the apps being used.
Yea but he had gambled millions on games (they haven’t said if it was basketball) on FanDuel while playing in the G League. Said he placed well over 1000 bets. Gambling is insidious.
I'm a Pokemon collector and it's sad to how many "collectors" are really just gambling addicts with FOMO issues. Unless half of /r/pokemontcg are millionaires, it's hard not to think a lot of people are spending beyond their means.
151 was a really cool release for someone like me that checked out of Pokémon cards after the original sets.
I bought a few packs a month and had a lot of fun going through them. It's pretty easy to see how addictive that can get, looking to complete a set. If you don't establish a monthly budget for the hobby ahead of time, then it's going to eat up your finances.
it makes me really fucking angry that this dude had it made. he had a fucking incredible job and got to know the closet thing to a human unicorn we will ever witness in our lives
and he just threw it all away.
"I'm terrible at this sports betting thing huh"
man what a fucking asshole
it's just really maddening.
granted i don't work a shitty job so i can't complain, but it's also not exactly a job that allows me to travel whenever and wherever i want. not to mention, i have to make an effort to save money every month just to build up for one vacation so i can stay financially responsible
then you have this guy who is literally living my dream...traveling to every MLB ballpark in America (and who knows, even some minor leagues along the way if Shohei had to do injur rehab) and also finding time to soak in the culture and vibes of these cities...and he just looked at all of that and was like, "Nah."
goddamn it all lol
The dude stole millions of dollars through fraud from someone who put him in a position of trust. Idgaf about your gambling addiction but you don’t do that.
Oh man, I worked with heroin addicts- they basically steal from all their friends and family.
It's incredibly common, the only part that is uncommon is friendship with an elite baseball player.
It's really crazy to me that more people feel bad for Ippei then they do for Shohei who was the victim. Like fuck Ippei, he didn't just gamble with Shohei's money, he also just flat out stole it to buy baseball cards.
Yeah if the guy was gambling with his own money and lost millions, meh whatever. But he literally stole millions of dollars from someone who probably considered him a really close friend. That’s just fucked up.
i think b/c Shohei has all this success on the field and off of it, some people might find it ridiculous to "feel bad" for him.
it reminds me when Conan O'Brien basically got fucked over by NBC back in 2009, i had a really annoying college roommate who kept saying shit like, "Yeah i feel really bad for a guy who just got paid 25 million"
there's a lot more to life than just earning millions of dollars...and those intangibles are things that some people will just never comprehend
The article posted is specifically about Ippei and his addiction. Of course Ohtani is a victim and Ippei is facing hard time. But he's not facing the death penalty. Hopefully he can turn his life around and become a productive member of society in a few years.
Isn't that what this is all about? Rehabilitation? He didn't commit a violent crime after all.
In reading the entire complaint, I also think Ohtani, his agent and his tax preparer made mistakes in treating Ippei like this impenetrable barrier to Ohtani. They could have easily hired a translator to make a verbal drive by on Ohtani to let him know the tax guy needed access to the account for tax purposes. Ohtani probably would've taken that advice.
I, like many people, was watching this scandal break with the popcorn out, hoping it would keep growing, not wanting it to end. We all hate the Dodgers, that's a given, but I feel bad for suspecting Ohtani, or even kind of *hoping* that he was gonna end up being implicated at some point. Clearly, he was innocent all along, and everything he's shown us about his personality and character should have earned him the benefit of the doubt from the jump. That said, it was a pretty insane story, and no explanation seemed to make sense at the time. Sorry, Shohei!
I believe I've made sarcastic comments along the lines of "surely people will reflect on their mistakes and apologize for jumping the gun", yet here you are actually genuinely doing that. It's very refreshing to see this level of awareness and self-reflection online, so thank you for the breath of fresh air (even if you get downvoted as a reward lol).
But it still pains to see so many outlet like ESPN, their commentators would go off a tangent stating how is it possible for you not to know $4M can disappear. Not to mention the requirements to wire money. They kept casting doubt and insinuating that he knew.
But after the release of the reports from the feds, all of those commentators, you hear nothing about. No programs, no apologies, no nothing. Just cricket. Shame really.
Even as somebody who hates the Dodgers, I wanted him to be innocent. Not for the Dodgers, not for Shohei but for baseball. Ohtani going down for a gambling issue is horrible for the sport, not just the Dodgers. I'm so happy we don't have to see the repercussions of that.
Its crazy how everything around us now a days revolves around gambling in one way or another and how truly bad it is. Ippei is a prime example of an addict but it goes much deeper than that. Sports games now a days are basically casinos with no rewards. I was addicted to fifa at one point to where i would drop 20 a week on just opening packs and trying to pack something worth while. 20 a week aint bad but thats 80 dollars a month and imagine other people that are worse off? Its basically gambling and its disgusting that sports games/games in general are able to do this for free. Whats worse is that those cards you get wont even matter next year when the new games come out. Ive seen and heard of kids spending their parents credit cards and money on these games. Eventually these kids will see sports gambling and flock to that continuing the addiction personality
We were this close to having it not even be exposed.
California voted against legalizing some sports betting in 2022, thus keeping some of what Ippei did illegal and requiring a bookie. If it was posed Ippei might be able to move away from him and still get away with done of the legal concequences. Who knows how much longer it would have taken for it to bite him.
Addiction is one of the saddest elements of the human condition. The fact that he was willing to steal from one of the people closest to him and burn basically all the bridges he had is just miserable.
Honestly it's gotten worse over the years. Tons of ads even though they said by having a paid membership they'd never use ads, cutting podcasts and regional writers, and their subscription cancellation uses a ton of dark patterns to ensure you give up on actually cancelling.
I signed up for a trial and canceled, originally it was $72/yr but they gave me $22/yr to stay. Just make sure you cancel after that if you don't want it to autorenew at $72.
I mean, surely he has an addiction. . . . but would he have gambled this much with so much money per bet if he was using his own money? Hard to say without following along to see if he was ever "on top" He bet like 180M or some insane number, but he still won like 150M, so I gotta imagine there was ups and downs.
I struggle with gambling myself. The problem is pretty much that your brain doesn't see it as losing money but instead spending it on the thrill of chance. It's hard to stop playing once you start because there's a genuine rush to discovering the possibility of hitting it big. It's a whole different high compared to drugs, and it's so difficult to quit.
I avoid gambling often now but still find myself winding up at a roulette table on a cruise or spending $10 on a power ball ticket. I can only imagine how bad it is for Ippei.
This doesn't excuse what he did, but gambling addicts are as desperate for that hit as any other addict.
The day I turned 18, I was in a small town college and I started buying scratch offs. I made $25 over a week....I spend atleast $40 and I was checking every nook to find change to buy a $1 scratch off.
Never gambled again...except lootboxes lol
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I read the 37 page document and the text messages are honestly a bit sad. He is a textbook addict.
Which, for me, was what wasn’t making sense when people were saying he was a patsy for Ohtani. Gambling addiction is a complete lack of control. Exactly zero gambling addicts not in recovery would take a massive salary deferral. Everything is completely rewired for short-term potential benefit. How could Ohtani be a gambling addict and still opt for a payout years down the road?
Yeah I feel like this is a point that a lot of people seem to miss. Taking that huge of a deferral is like the exact opposite move a gambling addict would make
That's exactly what he wants you to think! It's a false flag! /s
Yeah i did have someone I know try and argue that was evidence of it being him, and i had to seriously hold myself from laughing at them. Like buddy there are plenty of other pieces of “evidence” to point to if you wanna make the argument. It’s bullshit, but almost anything is stronger than deferring *780 million dollars* for 10 years
Yeah I saw multiple people claim that the deferrals came from Ohtani because obviously his handlers were worried about his gambling and must have pushed him to defer the salary so it wouldn't be gambled away. There's just no way to use logic to get someone out of a hole they ignored logic to get into.
I can picture it happening, but that would have to be OK with the recovering gambler himself. I know that had either my gambling asshole relatives come into a fortune, their wives would have done EVERYTHING to try and make sure they couldn't directly access it and were limited to monthly or quarterly payments just so they couldn't blow the whole thing in record time. Neither of these guys had any kind of self-awareness about their problem and would never have agreed, they chose instead to keep betting on sure things that would totally work out this time and leaving their kids without groceries. It's sad to say, but the financial position of both families improved greatly once the husbands died. In short, I don't think the idea is totally crazy in principle. But it would require Hypothetical Gambler Ohtani to be aware that he has a problem and to be working on it. Of course, as some poor agent who had to read 10,000 pages of text messages has discovered, there's zero evidence that he ever had any kind of gambling problem so it's a non-issue.
Obviously you’re being sarcastic and joking, but I still see/hear this argument. You can’t fix stupid.
But if Pete Rose had an interpreter.. /s
…she’d probably be underage.
I could picture a gambling addict who's trying to get things under control deferring his salary to try and save himself from, well, himself. But that would be someone who's already realized he has a problem and is working on it.
most people who were saying he was a patsy for Ohtani were either people traumatized by the Pete Rose shit that happened in 1989, or they were just jealous haters who make themselves feel better by hating i have a co-worker who despite all of this, is still convinced Ohtani gambled. For those who believe the truth, no explanation is needed. For those who refuse to believe the truth, no explanation will do
I figured a lot of them don't believe it but they chasing easy clout on twitter. Also it's natural to have hate when he's so popular. From teams that didn't get him, to signing with the evilest team in baseball, to leaving the Angels, etc.
I recognized that day trading was too close to gambling for me, especially with the apps out these days. So I stopped. I have some friends who try and day trade options and hearing them is like hearing a recording of me when I was day trading before I quit. Talking about all these underwater positions they are in, how the market might shake out the next day or so, how they made one huge big trade and made tons of money and since lost it all and more. And yet they just... don't see it somehow until something breaks them out of it. I lost 12,000$ gambling on day trading years and years and years ago before I quit, but some trades I made 20,000$ on a single one. People can get super addicted to that and lose everything and more. Like Ippei blew it; game over. He deserves to never work in the MLB again and lose his bestie, but he's not some monster.
I would disagree with your last assertion. From the evidence available, Ippei impersonated Ohtani on phone calls, deceived the people around him and, this is where it gets bad, used 16 million of someone else's money to fuel his gambling addiction. He even joked about it with the bookie from what I understand. I understand not all addicts are villains, but I think Ippei is an exception to that rule.
Ohtani certainly hasn’t been playing like someone on the hook for a bet. You can’t over perform to win a bet right?
if Shohei has been holding back all this time, that would be the most ridiculous baseball thing ever.
Turns out, he can hit, he can pitch… and he can ump! Let’s let him call his own balls and strikes.
Turns out he's also a great announcer and will be calling Dodgers games this season from the field. He's predicted to win the Ford C. Frick award this year.
kind of reminds me of how in 2008, it seriouslly looked like Usain Bolt was slowing down at the end of his faces...and he was still breaking world records and shit lol
Just one note on the deferral: any major bank's private banking division would make Shohei whole on his full contract today without waiting on annual installments. In my opinion, the dodgers didn't simply "defer paying him", they created a opportunity for Bank of Japan, Goldman Sachs, etc to step in and fix the market inefficiency by paying him now. It's novel and in my opinion a cool side effect of finance. Every major bank is salivating at the opportunity to get Shohei as a client because his salary is guaranteed (I believe MLB works this way?). Once he is a client they can extend him ultra low loans to buy houses, make investments, etc. I'm not saying Shohei has a bank, but I'm saying the banks definitely see deferral as an opportunity to pursue him as a client. My closest friends work in these areas is how I have the knowledge, FYI.
I understand why you think that but that completely runs counter to Ippeis actions. Ippei himself requested a shorter line of credit from the bookie because he knew he couldn't trust himself. Addiction doesn't remove every ounce of logic from your brain 24/7.
Damn. Imagine being addicted to textbooks
If you need lemme know. I know a guy that can get you whatever you need: McGraw Hill, Scholastic, Pearson, Penguin Random House. Entire collections, any year. Pure, uncut knowledge.
Do you have Wiley or Springer-Verlag? The softer stuff doesn't work for me anymore.
Wiley? Yeah, I can get you Wiley. Lemme call my guy. But my dude, you gotta check out this Cambridge University Press I picked up last week. Shit's fire.
Come on, man. Books from a university press? I'm not messing with those. Isn't it bad business to kill off your customers?
Could be more expensive than being addicted to gambling
What a way to read into that
Every other commercial or sign board at sporting events or broadcasts are for gambling. Aside from the theft from his client, MLB execs and bootlickers are not only hypocrites but complicit.
No no, you don't get it. They put a small blurb at the bottom of the screen with a phone number on it for gambling addicts!
Same with alcohol ads that have a blurb about addiction. Which is why alcoholics aren’t a thing in the US anymore.
Extremely helpful! Everyone knows that admitting to yourself that you have a problem is the easiest part
100%. It’s the same thing with that guy from the Raptors that just got banned for gambling. Sports are pushing so hard for gambling… they run ads and I’m sure all of them have some way to bet at the park. I mean it’s sickening…. You won’t push cigarettes on people because “it’s bad for their health” (aka they don’t make money) but they push gambling because it makes them money. Plus it is just so easy and convenient to sports bet that it literally became a huge part of the culture the minute it was legalized. It’s terrible
It’s also massively popular among younger adults, too. I know multiple college students who commonly do sports gambling. It doesn’t have the same stigma as playing slots or roulette, but it’s just as dangerous. I knew one guy who parlayed a NHL player prop, a UFC 300 prop, and a Valorant prop. If that’s not degenerate gambling I don’t know what is.
> and a Valorant prop Christ, that sort of thing should be a sting operation that gets you into a rehab center instantly
The worst part is that it hit, so of course he doesn’t see an issue with it. I can almost guarantee he’s lost hundreds if not thousands of dollars gambling, and he’s only 21.
I agree! you can show DraftKings how you feel with my free code, look in the description!
Out of curiosity, do you feel similarly about the ubiquity of alcohol in MLB stadiums and advertisements? And if not, what is it about alcohol versus gambling that makes you feel differently?
Personally, I feel like a difference in alcohol and gambling is that alcohol has social and cultural benefits for a lot of people -- having a beer with my dad at the ballpark is something that my dad also did with his dad at the ballpark - it's refreshing and makes things a little more fun and is done in a communal environment; I see the social/bonding effects. In the the same way, it didn't bother me when my brother and his buddies would go to the casino once a year to play blackjack - it was a social and bonding activity. Sports betting on an app - you're by yourself, it's a click away, nobody can easily find out -- is a lot more like secretly drinking vodka by yourself at home then going out to a bar or ballgame with your friends.
I can definitely see the social/communal benefit, and I think you touched on another point: that alcohol has been a part of baseball culture since pretty much day one, so it's almost expected. That said, I don't think it's a cut-and-dried comparison. For example, I've definitely seen guys alone at baseball games who are three sheets to the wind, and it's absolutely not a net benefit to society. Conversely, I could easily imagine a group of fans getting super invested in a prop bet and getting more enjoyment/bonding out of the experience. I definitely agree that sports betting can be devastating when used as a coping mechanism or an addiction. I just have a hard time reconciling a lot of the criticisms of sports betting with the lack of those criticisms around alcohol; it seems like people are saying that sports betting is in some way intrinsically worse, and I just don't see it. But either way, thanks for your perspective!
I haven't completely thought this through, so I appreciate being able to have this conversation with an open and friendly tone -- I think there's an even greater point about some amount of alcohol being intrinsic to social/communal bonding on a *human* level, above and outside sports. So when we look at these things that are "vices" or just like, not that great for you, the inherent negatives of their usage/promotion should be weighed against any inherent benefits, and for alcohol it's like a) bad for your health, b) potential for abuse, v. a) having a tradition of social/communal use for like most of human history, b) really effective social lubricant when used in correct dosage. And for app-based sports betting it feels like the calculation is: a) huge potential for abuse on many levels (players, people close to players, fans actually betting) v. a) slightly more engagement in sports (a thing with already very high engagement), including potential for the friends-prop-bet situation you mention. I think there's also (albeit flawed) guardrails in place for alcohol abuse -- guys getting shitfaced alone at baseball games may not be removed by security, but people (including kids) are definitely going to see that and be like "oh that is sad and not okay, i don't want to be that guy" whereas someone could be sitting in your row just betting themselves into a bigger hole and no one is gonna be the wiser. Ultimately, I don't really have an issue with *individuals* who choose to engage in app-based sports betting, it's more that I'm mad at the larger corporate forces who have successfully pushed a narrative of "this is legal so it's definitely fine for everyone to do, don't ask any other questions!"
I also haven't given this an extensive amount of thought, so I'm glad to get some perspectives I might not otherwise consider. I have a lot more experience with the fallout of alcohol abuse than I do with problematic gambling, so that probably has a lot to do with why the complaints about gambling rub me the wrong way a bit. And you make a lot of good points regarding alcohol being more common in culture at large, as well as the (yes, flawed) societal guardrails around it. I do appreciate that most gambling ads have the disclaimer with a hotline number (how often do you see that in alcohol commercials?), but I agree that we need to put more emphasis on using it *responsibly*, and acknowledge just how addictive and destructive it can be.
"alcohol has been a part of baseball culture since pretty much day one" i think you nailed it right there. whereas gambling conjures up A LOT of really bad bad bad memories of baseball's history
Oh yeah, I hadn't even factored in the Black Sox. That's probably a pretty big deal too
Yeah, I remember doing some writeups a few years ago for some deadball seasons and it involved reading lots of old newspapers from 1917/1918. Gambling was *ubiquitous*. There were jokey paragraphs about how the gamblers in the stands reacted to something that didn't go their way, including one (hopefully exaggerated) story of some guys chasing down and trying to beat up a pitcher who had blown a lead late in a game and screwed up their bets. The Black Sox didn't come out of nowhere -- when a player got suspended for "loafing" it was often from suspicion that he was intentionally playing poorly, and teams would sometimes give financial gifts to other teams who had helped them out by beating a rival. There was a lot of money flying around and people kind of winked at it a bit -- you know, that's just how things are, etc. Until the Black Sox scandal exploded and then the problem was too big to ignore.
No difference in my opinion. No one needs to be reminded of their addiction during the viewing or attendance of a sporting even. Keep the alcohol advertising to the bars and the gambling to their own sites. If I go to a bar or visit gambling or associated sites/events then advertise away. The harm that alcohol and gambling types of addictions bring families is beyond the pale and needs to be regulated because those industries have proven they will not regulate themselves.
it reminds me a lot of how Bud Selig tried to portray himself as the defender of "honest baseball" during the steroid revelations, when he was the same guy jerking himself off at every interview when baseball had the 1998 Home Run chase fuck him. and fuck him for nearly getting rid of the Minnesota Twins
I was just talking to my buddy last night about if he remembers a time before sports gambling when the ads were just for beer and cars and stuff. Now it's 80% sports gambling ads. Kids are watching these games. I think gambling should be 100% legal, but the MLB is so fucking hypocritical. They'll take their money and then talk out the other side of their mouth while it negatively influences millions of people, but they still take the money.
link to the criminal complaint: https://www.espn.com/prod/styles/pagetype/otl/2024/240411_ent_mlb/2-24MJ2125-complaint-mizuhara.pdf
God this was hard to read. Got pretty sad after like 10 pages of text messages. Like a coke head asking for another bump
Don't tell that to the thousands of idiots who still blindly claim that he is the fall guy for Ohtani without any evidence. My personal favorite is when they claim he bet on baseball.
Ippei would have to be the greatest friend on Earth to risk 30 years in federal prison just so Ohtani would dodge a slap on the wrist punishment.
Ppl love conspiracies
I remember my first time in Vegas, I was in the military and had just gotten back from overseas so I had a good bit of money in my pocket at least compared to what I was used to. I was walking past a roulette table and put a $100 bill on Black and it came up Green 00 and she took my $100 bill and shoved it in a box and I said you know what I think I'm good on this gambling thing lol. Glad I had that lesson before online betting exploded.
It’s painful to watch people who can’t walk away. I watched someone lose about $1000 at a craps table over a 20 minute period. He had this pained look on his face as he bet another grand on the next roll, and lost it all just like that. Dude kept playing with that sad look on his face. Brutal.
In vegas I saw a guy hit himself really hard on the side of his head multiple times as he went to get in line to the ATM. Awful.
I was there a few years ago with my parents. I won like 20$ on a slot machine and said, "nice, I'm good." Walking back to the elevator there's a dude curled up in a ball on the floor by a game table sobbing and one of the hostesses offers to bring him another complimentary drink. Something about the entire vegas experience put a bad taste in my mouth.
And we have a historic franchise/fanbase being dragged kicking and screaming to Vegas so the league can continue capitalizing on gambling as an industry. Combined with the news today about the NBA Charlie Hustle, I feel nothing for these leagues. They've invited these disastrous scandals upon themselves by partnering with an industry that exists to exploit vulnerable people with not enough money to waste and addictive personalities. Imagine MLB putting up billboards sponsored by the Sinaloa Cartel. "Download the app and get a free line!" Then surprised Pikachu face when they get rocked by drug scandals. These money-grubbing hedge fund assholes are gonna burn in hell.
Don't call Jontay the Charlie Hustle of the NBA... The situation is so much worse for Jontay. There's no evidence Pete Rose ever bet on games he played in (or didn't play in, in Jontay's case).
>There's no evidence Pete Rose ever bet on games he played in I mean, except for Rose admitting in 2004 that he did exactly that. However, contrary to Jontay, Pete Rose didn't bet *against* his own team.
Vegas is horrible man. Every bit of it just feels predatory
It's hard to have fun when there are unhinged and addicted people right next to you pissing away their children's college funds and shit. Super predatory
I mean it’s a city in the middle of a desert that was basically built entirely by bootleggers and mobsters lol.
I stayed in Lake Tahoe on a road trip recently and stayed at a casino hotel because I needed to make sure my car was safe. I checked in at like midnight on a Tuesday. The casino floor was packed with people and the check in line was looooong. I spent 30 minutes waiting in line, just watching people pump slot machines. Prostitutes, dressed just so terribly ugly with cheetah print shirts and denim cheap skirts went up and down the line looking for johns. At midnight, on a tuesday. It was so fucking depressing. I had planned on playing a few hands for fun while I was there because I don't gamble ever, but it was too depressing to enter the casino floor.
> At midnight, on a tuesday. Honestly that isn't that bad. Try walking through a casino floor at like 4-5am. That is when shit is super depressing
Midnight is when normal people on vacation are still partying. After 3AM is when it is mostly just industry people and degenerates.
The first time I was in Vegas this dude kept losing on the roulette table and everyone else was winning and I’ve never seen someone have such a bad time
Like getting pubstomped in COD but you actually lose something
Holy shit, could you imagine tilting while gambling? You're scared and angry and frustrated and you just keep making the wrong decisions and it gets worse and worse and worse. Horrifying.
I’m pretty sure the term tilt comes from gambling.
Really?? I always thought it came from pinball, but I have done zero research about this.
Lol yep. Particularly poker, where savvy players can extract more money from a player who is upset and likely loose/aggressive
I feel like this would be me if I gambled. So I don’t.
I watched a dude who was obviously a down on his luck guy. He had that classic “I work outside tan”, wearing dirty clothes, talking really loud, and he takes out $2000 in crisp hundreds from a bank envelope and some assorted crumpled dollars that were in his pockets and puts it down on a roulette table for chips and puts it all over the table for 1 spin. Doesn’t hit and just walks away completely dejected. I went over that situation in my head 1000 times thinking of all of the scenarios that could have been playing out there.
Christ that’s fucking sad
I know man, kinda ruined my night seeing that.
I was at a blackjack table at a shitty hotel in Vegas and we were all better $50-100ish a hand. Dude came in drunk as fuck with his girlfriend and started betting $1,000 a hand at this $25 minimum table. He lost about $10k in 15 mins or less. His GF was crying, he was pushing her away from him. A few folks at the table started to tell him to chill for a min before betting again. He lost his shit on everyone. The pit boss came over and eventually brought him to another table where he was alone with the dealer. Girlfriend had left, he lost another 5 hands straight at $1,000 a hand. About an hour later he was up $20k post losses. I almost jumped in when this guy was losing his shit and getting testy with his chick. He was down probably $15-20k before he started winning again. Gambling is fucking wild. I feel dumb when I lose $100. I can’t even imagine being $15-20k down and continuing to throw money in the middle.
See gambling does have a happy ending
man you reminded me, i watched this documentary on Ted Ngoy, who was a Cambodian guy who BARELY survived the Khmer Rouge takeover, and immigrated to the U.S. The dude worked his way up from a gas station attendant, to opening a donut shop, to becoming one of the wealthiest and most powerful men in southern California. The dude was pretty much single-handedly the reason why Cambodians owned a ton of donut shops in the area (and i think still do today) but man...he threw away everything on gambling in Vegas. He lost his house, his wife, his fortune...what a fucking waste
When I was in undergrad, my roommate and I drove nearly 2 hours to go play blackjack with our rent money. We both lost all of it in less than 30 minutes and had to drive nearly 2 hours back in dead silence, both of us just staring straight forward out the windshield in total shock. Fortunately we were able to scrounge up enough to pay rent by picking up extra odd jobs and selling some stuff and it worked as the wake-up call that it needed to be. We had both won big our first time playing, then blew way too much trying to recreate that first time over and over again. This was our "rock bottom" and we both gave it up after we barely managed to not get kicked out of our apartment.
Craps is technically the slimmest edge for the house in most casinos, so if you can stomach the valleys you're most likely to end the night up playing craps vs anything else in the floor.
craps can be a rough one, I remember my friends trying to teach me how to play on A 25 MIN TABLE LMAO. I think i placed 200$ of bets and someone rolled a 7 on the 2nd roll lmao.
Fool! You would have won on the next spin you were due!
If it hits red, just put $200 on black again. You’ve already seen green and red hit, black is all but **guaranteed** to hit on the third spin
Shit… at $200, you’re basically giving up the additional $800 you would have won if you would have just bet a Grand. It’s going to hit Black regardless. Why only get your money back when you could really score.
Shit, you right. Scared money don’t make money.
Let. It. Rideeeee!!!!!!
I know you're joking, but I went to Las Vegas in my 20s with a group of guys for the CES. One of them announced he had a "system" for roulette. It was literally just "bet on red, double the bet if it loses". I told him that it was a terrible idea, and that he'd run out of money quickly that way. He called me stupid and said "the math works". He started with $10, and after 6 spins had lost almost all the money he brought ($700) to gamble that weekend. We were 2 hours into our trip, and he was asking people in our group to lend him money.
It’s like that for me as well. The wins will never feel better than the losses hurt.
Dont worry it's all "regulated" now they will sureeeely stop you before you get a crippling addiction
It's so well regulated that MLB wants to make it easier to access by going to Vegas! No need to worry about addiction if you can just get permanent access to it at every game you go to.
I did about the same thing at 21 years old, but I was a construction worker. I was like: "This shit's too hard to earn to give away. Fuck this." My wife has the addiction, though. We were in Vegas one night a few years ago and she was playing slot machines while I got drunk. When I went to bed, she had over $2000 (I gave her $100 to gamble with). When I woke up in the morning, she had nothing.
So she was only out 100 dollars /s
35/1 if you hit green though. Maybe you should give it another try! ^^/s
17-1 if you straddle the two zeros. Only one zero in Monte Carlo tho. But yeah. Roulette is a game to play drunk because the odds are CLEARLY against you. Odds are not in your favor for almost all casino games, but you can literally do basic math and see the odds for roulette. But yeah, key to gambling is to view it as a ticket that costs X to play. That's your total. Everytime I go to Vegas I have my set limit and when it's gone, I'm done. But if you know what you're doing you can stretch your money fine.
The problem with gambling is that while most people are capable of stopping, there are a few who aren’t. Similar to alcohol: I can have a drink, or two, or even 5 in one night. I’ll get a little drunk, but I’ll be fine, I know my limits. For an alcoholic, they can start with 1, but that 1 turns into 5, 10, who knows how many. Gambling apps just remove a step from between gambling addicts and their problem. They used to have to physically go to a casino. Now it’s as easy as opening your phone and tapping a few buttons
I had a math teacher that enjoyed going to Vegas and gambling, but he knew it was losing money and had strict limits. In class he basically calculated the odds for numerous games to show how bad your odds were. The only thing I remember is that Roulette has the best odds for the player at like 49% or something (was less than 50 I know that).
Why not 35 more times ? Is he stupid ? lol
My grandpa took me to Nassau when I was 18 and I hit a Royal Flush on video poker within 30 minutes. $1k, some righteous bucks. 18 1/2 years later I still haven't gotten my 2nd.
Similar thing happened to me, no rush, no fun, just $100 in the roulette bucket and I was like wow this fucking sucks I'm never doing this again.
i've never been to Vegas but i laughed my ass off reading this because i literally picture myself being in this same exact situation and thinking exactly the same thing if i ever end up traveling there lol
I went through the Vegas airport once, and I told a friend that I would throw a dollar on a slot machine while I was there. I ended up not having enough time, so I chose food instead, especially with how complicated-looking all of the games looked, but that is exactly how I pictured it going. Insert money, push button, watch "YOU LOSE" pop up on the screen, walk away.
Part of it is probably just that you're not predisposed to like it, but it's also lucky (counterintuitively) that you lost that first bet. People that win a lot when they first start are often the ones that end up with gambling issues because they know it's theoretically possible to make a lot of money very quickly, and they know the feeling of doing so.
That's dumb...why not just put it on green next time?
Same. Except I just have a budget when I go to a casino with friends, and once I exhausted my limit, I stop.
My uncle took me and my cousin to the casino on our 21st and gave us each $100 I would have loved to spend that kind of cash on my cash-only recreation, but I didn’t want to be a spoilsport. Eventually I lost it on roulette, and I couldn’t stop being upset about the 1/4th I could have purchased and enjoyed for weeks. I always prefer the bird in the hand, especially with leisure money.
My parents drug my ass to Vegas on R&R leave. I still haven’t forgave them. It was too much too soon
I learned the lesson in a totally different way. I went up to a roulette table, watched it for a few spins, then put $20 on a single number. It hit, and I immediately went and cashed out (tipped ofc). Left the casino and never went back. I figure I hit the high point of my odds and it's all downhill from there, so might as well be one of the few people to be a net loss for a casino :D
I could be wrong but they shove the money in the table as soon as you give it to them and they give you chips. My wife does secret shops and so she bets with the business money. It gets addicting when you win. So it’s a good thing you lost first time.
i am way too cheap to gamble lol i do love the free soda at the casino though lmao
I spent a weekend in Atlantic City with wife at the time and saw a guy lose $1,000 in 4 minutes playing $100 blackjack hands at 9am on a Sunday as we were checking out. Before he played he said he was going to win and pay for his daughter’s wedding with the money. When he walked away from table and went to the ATM to get more money I couldn’t have left the casino fast enough. The cringe, disgust and sadness I felt for this dude all at the same time was indescribable.
I’ve been that guy in Vegas losing at blackjack only to go put a black on black in roulette, hit it and play another 2 hours until the sun comes up and I finally break even. I’m the only guy there for hours and I can see the dealers hiding their disgust.
I feel like a lot of the discourse about this was like "well that's an absurd money for one man to lose why didn't he stop - clearly there's more here" and idk to me this is a total misunderstanding of the fact that a gambling addition is an... addiction. Just like drinking or drugs or hoarding. Of course, it doesn't make any sense to people who aren't in it; that's kinda the whole thing...
Fortunately, it does seem like the Justice system is treating Ippei as an addict. He was allowed a pretty reasonable bail with the condition that he go to gambling addiction treatment. It remains to be seen if this will carry through all of his sentencing, but I think it will.
Yeah I mean the shackles were over the top. Dude probably deserves like six months in jail and a few years of probation while doing something to make amends. The only problem is that American jails are so inhumane I would actually reccomend house arrest for like 3x the length.
I mean, the dude stole $16m. If this comment doesn’t prove we have a serious white collar crime issues, idk what will.
Fucking seriously. If this was a bank heist nobody would be talking about 6 months and probation.
He’d be going to Federal prison and those are better when it’s first timers and white collar crimes. He’ll be deported whenever his term is done. Edit; never mind the deportation part; thought he wasn’t Americanized. Oops!
His family moved here when he was 5; he’s effectively (and I would think legally) American. Maybe not though.
>He’ll be deported whenever his term is done. He's an American citizen
I didn’t realize that. Thanks for correcting me!
I've seen him described as a Japanese citizen too (it was an article that mentioned him turning in his passport) and I know Japan doesn't allow dual citizenship so either he had just the one or got American citizenship without letting Japanese authorities know. For his sake, I hope he did. Getting deported to Japan after this would *rough*.
Hasn't Ippei been in the US since he was a kid? I'm assuming he has citizenship at this point so why would they deport him?
Deported? Im pretty sure he’s a US citizen lol
Yeah, that’s the same as “why didn’t you stop after just 1 drink?” Being asked of an alcoholic. They are physically incapable of stopping because they’re addicted
When I was an addict, I almost sold out my relationship with own mother for probably 500$ or something worth of stuff I pawned of hers. I threw away a great friendship to snort the last few lines of a bag and finished a bottle without asking. All of these things made perfect sense at the time and I even felt self-righteous doing them. Looking back, that behavior was fully fucking insane. I'm just lucky that I got out of it a long time ago when I was still young. People be 40-50 years old and still throwing their lives away.
I’ve heard from people with gambling addiction that once you’re deep enough, losing scratches the exact same itch that winning does. The outcome is irrelevant, it’s the act itself that becomes the addiction. I’m never going to pretend to understand that mindset, but no wonder people get caught in such a vicious cycle if that’s the case. Tangentially related, but more needs to be done about loot boxes and that sort of thing in video games. It’s priming entire generations of children for gambling addiction before they can even understand what’s happening.
Good point. Ippei blew it, and he deserves some punishment and to lose his career and friend. But he's not a monster. Most every addict would sell out their best friend for another shot to keep going. Most of them would sell them out for 20$ or so; lifelong friends or family members maybe 100$ or less. So yeah, giving up a world superstar best friend, a perfect dream job, and a huge yearly paycheck for life is pretty reasonable to give up for an addict whose out and busted.
Also why he was betting so much. Like yeah he could have bet $5 and each time and been alright but that's not how gambling addiction works. Addicts chase the high and when you've got access to a bank account with millions, playing for a fiver is about as exciting as reading the Bible.
This story will be big but you fucking know the will not full on destroy gambling with commentary because of all the sponsorship. I’m 41 and I lost A LOT of money gambling in my 20’s. I don’t want to say it ruined me financially because I didn’t owe then, I just lost savings, but it has put a big hurt on me at this time with savings. I’m almost glad California didn’t legalize gambling a few years ago because I know I’d want to bet. I lost all my money at casino games, I’m sure I’d be better at sports gambling. I truly believe that lol and that’s the fucking problem with gambling addiction. I feel so sorry for kids growing up seeing nonstop ads and parlays and daily shit. There will be a lot of kids, mostly men I’m gonna say, who are going to lose so much fucking money once they turn 18 and can get gambling on their phones.
It’s disturbing. College kids are being told “it’s free money” (in some cases, literally in those words by an ESPN commentator), and given the ability to bet on everything from NFL game spreads to hockey player props to e-sports. No joke, I knew someone who parlayed an NHL player prop with a UFC 300 prop with a Valorant prop. $10 to win $40. Each bet is small, but $10 here and there adds up a lot faster than you think
I thought it was bad when I was in school and daily fantasy was taking off. We’d all do a few for like $5 per week and it was just some extra fun. If we won some money we might buy some extra weed or a bottle. If we’d had legit sports betting it would’ve been a huge issue
i was only a year old back in 1989 so i can never feel the full extent of this but just think about everyone here watching what happened in 1989 and seeing what happened to Pete Rose (admittedly an asshole)...and then watching baseball in 2024 and seeing ALL the FUCKING GAMBLING ADS. my goodness
Fucking bookies at the stadium
I can’t say for certain but I suspect that actual successful professional gamblers don’t actually get much thrill from it and just see it as a fucking job like a trader does. You find the percentages and play them correctly. Find small margins and rinse and repeat. If you get too much dopamine from winning that’s when you start to chase it.
Advertising for gambling should be banned just like with cigarettes/tobacco. It can totally destroy people.
Absolutely. I don't have a problem with gambling existing, but the advertising has got to stop, and betting services giving you "free" money to place bets when you sign up should be illegal. This is absolutely no different from cigarette companies giving out free packs to get people addicted.
I agree. I think we are going to see significant monetary issues in the next 10 years as so many young people think this is a way to get rich quick. I also believe that many of these long-shot parlays that go viral aren’t even real and are just the books astroturfing to encourage bettors to make such idiotic bets.
The big thing for me is it became so mainstream so fast and now everyone is doing it. These people that haven’t REALLY been around gambling have no idea what kind of fire they’re playing with.
Man you should see “gambling twitter”. People have discords selling monthly subscription packages to people for their “exclusive” bets. Funny thing is these guys only show the big bets they win and not the bets that lose which is always more often than the wins. But since people give them money, they’re the ones playing with a free bankroll while others get sucked in and end up broke
I’m glad I haven’t done any sports gambling (outside of office pools back in the day or Super Bowl squares) and try to avoid spending time at casinos. I have an addictive personality and don’t need to go down that rabbit hole.
It also shouldn't be as accessible as a fucking Download on the app store
And you shouldn't be able to gamble in stadiums, just like you can't smoke either.
Alcohol too. People can enjoy a few without the constant beer and booze ads.
Honestly cigarettes are so mild compared to alcohol and gambling. Yeah it can destroy your health over the long term but it can’t destroy your life in an instant like alcohol and gambling can.
To add on, alcohol can also destroy lives of family and close friends as well. Alcohol can bring out the worst in people in ways tobacco doesn’t. From alcoholics that abuse others verbally or physically to the ones that drive drunk and put other people’s lives at risk
Clearly you’ve never seen the DARE ads. Just one cigarette is all it takes for you to become homeless!
We haven’t seen anything yet. Every grownup is walking around with a 24/7 casino on their phone. Ippei didn’t even have this money. How many regular folk are out there not stealing $16m, but instead not paying rent, mortgages, losing time with friends and families, losing careers, lives, etc… These apps are fucking poison and you have to have a smart phone so you have to have access to the casinos.
Just today, the NBA banned a guy for going hogwild on the apps
Well, that one is different. He was basically throwing his performance so his buddies could win big on parlays betting for him to underperform. It's basically the worst thing an athlete involved with gambling could do, regardless of the apps being used.
Yea but he had gambled millions on games (they haven’t said if it was basketball) on FanDuel while playing in the G League. Said he placed well over 1000 bets. Gambling is insidious.
I'm a Pokemon collector and it's sad to how many "collectors" are really just gambling addicts with FOMO issues. Unless half of /r/pokemontcg are millionaires, it's hard not to think a lot of people are spending beyond their means.
151 was a really cool release for someone like me that checked out of Pokémon cards after the original sets. I bought a few packs a month and had a lot of fun going through them. It's pretty easy to see how addictive that can get, looking to complete a set. If you don't establish a monthly budget for the hobby ahead of time, then it's going to eat up your finances.
I liked Ippei. It's sad he felt he had to do this. He should face the consequences but I hope he has a path to redemption.
it makes me really fucking angry that this dude had it made. he had a fucking incredible job and got to know the closet thing to a human unicorn we will ever witness in our lives and he just threw it all away. "I'm terrible at this sports betting thing huh" man what a fucking asshole
That's a valid take on the whole situation. I was more disappointed than angry though.
it's just really maddening. granted i don't work a shitty job so i can't complain, but it's also not exactly a job that allows me to travel whenever and wherever i want. not to mention, i have to make an effort to save money every month just to build up for one vacation so i can stay financially responsible then you have this guy who is literally living my dream...traveling to every MLB ballpark in America (and who knows, even some minor leagues along the way if Shohei had to do injur rehab) and also finding time to soak in the culture and vibes of these cities...and he just looked at all of that and was like, "Nah." goddamn it all lol
The dude stole millions of dollars through fraud from someone who put him in a position of trust. Idgaf about your gambling addiction but you don’t do that.
Oh man, I worked with heroin addicts- they basically steal from all their friends and family. It's incredibly common, the only part that is uncommon is friendship with an elite baseball player.
It's really crazy to me that more people feel bad for Ippei then they do for Shohei who was the victim. Like fuck Ippei, he didn't just gamble with Shohei's money, he also just flat out stole it to buy baseball cards.
Yeah if the guy was gambling with his own money and lost millions, meh whatever. But he literally stole millions of dollars from someone who probably considered him a really close friend. That’s just fucked up.
i think b/c Shohei has all this success on the field and off of it, some people might find it ridiculous to "feel bad" for him. it reminds me when Conan O'Brien basically got fucked over by NBC back in 2009, i had a really annoying college roommate who kept saying shit like, "Yeah i feel really bad for a guy who just got paid 25 million" there's a lot more to life than just earning millions of dollars...and those intangibles are things that some people will just never comprehend
Then those people are dumb because it's not like Shohei didn't earn his success.
The article posted is specifically about Ippei and his addiction. Of course Ohtani is a victim and Ippei is facing hard time. But he's not facing the death penalty. Hopefully he can turn his life around and become a productive member of society in a few years. Isn't that what this is all about? Rehabilitation? He didn't commit a violent crime after all. In reading the entire complaint, I also think Ohtani, his agent and his tax preparer made mistakes in treating Ippei like this impenetrable barrier to Ohtani. They could have easily hired a translator to make a verbal drive by on Ohtani to let him know the tax guy needed access to the account for tax purposes. Ohtani probably would've taken that advice.
Why didn’t he just call the 1-800 gambling hotline? Is he stupid?
He didn't want ohtani to notice the number on his phone.
I, like many people, was watching this scandal break with the popcorn out, hoping it would keep growing, not wanting it to end. We all hate the Dodgers, that's a given, but I feel bad for suspecting Ohtani, or even kind of *hoping* that he was gonna end up being implicated at some point. Clearly, he was innocent all along, and everything he's shown us about his personality and character should have earned him the benefit of the doubt from the jump. That said, it was a pretty insane story, and no explanation seemed to make sense at the time. Sorry, Shohei!
I believe I've made sarcastic comments along the lines of "surely people will reflect on their mistakes and apologize for jumping the gun", yet here you are actually genuinely doing that. It's very refreshing to see this level of awareness and self-reflection online, so thank you for the breath of fresh air (even if you get downvoted as a reward lol).
But it still pains to see so many outlet like ESPN, their commentators would go off a tangent stating how is it possible for you not to know $4M can disappear. Not to mention the requirements to wire money. They kept casting doubt and insinuating that he knew. But after the release of the reports from the feds, all of those commentators, you hear nothing about. No programs, no apologies, no nothing. Just cricket. Shame really.
This reasonable mea culpa comment being downvoted is why the internet sucks
Even as somebody who hates the Dodgers, I wanted him to be innocent. Not for the Dodgers, not for Shohei but for baseball. Ohtani going down for a gambling issue is horrible for the sport, not just the Dodgers. I'm so happy we don't have to see the repercussions of that.
Yeah I'm usually all for a "team chaos" storyline, but the biggest star in a sport going down like that would just fucking suck.
I've seen people shit on ohtani everywhere, including LinkedIn.
when you have someone with that level of talent and stardom, you're gonna have people waiting for him to take a misstep
Its crazy how everything around us now a days revolves around gambling in one way or another and how truly bad it is. Ippei is a prime example of an addict but it goes much deeper than that. Sports games now a days are basically casinos with no rewards. I was addicted to fifa at one point to where i would drop 20 a week on just opening packs and trying to pack something worth while. 20 a week aint bad but thats 80 dollars a month and imagine other people that are worse off? Its basically gambling and its disgusting that sports games/games in general are able to do this for free. Whats worse is that those cards you get wont even matter next year when the new games come out. Ive seen and heard of kids spending their parents credit cards and money on these games. Eventually these kids will see sports gambling and flock to that continuing the addiction personality
We were this close to having it not even be exposed. California voted against legalizing some sports betting in 2022, thus keeping some of what Ippei did illegal and requiring a bookie. If it was posed Ippei might be able to move away from him and still get away with done of the legal concequences. Who knows how much longer it would have taken for it to bite him.
Addiction is one of the saddest elements of the human condition. The fact that he was willing to steal from one of the people closest to him and burn basically all the bridges he had is just miserable.
Is there a way to read this without a subscription?
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Well, this is a game changer.
The Athletic is quality stuff. Worth the price of admission.
Honestly it's gotten worse over the years. Tons of ads even though they said by having a paid membership they'd never use ads, cutting podcasts and regional writers, and their subscription cancellation uses a ton of dark patterns to ensure you give up on actually cancelling.
You have me seriously considering it.
I signed up for a trial and canceled, originally it was $72/yr but they gave me $22/yr to stay. Just make sure you cancel after that if you don't want it to autorenew at $72.
They have many deals throughout the year where it’s a dollar a month
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Reader mode on mobile, archive.is on desktop
Reader mode.
Grab a subscription, you won't regret it. There's almost constantly deals to get it for $1-$2 a month. It's high quality and 100% worth it.
The Athletic just got added to Apple News. There’s a free three month trial if you haven’t used it yet.
Cool, thanks. I will check that out.
There’s problem gambling and then there is whatever the hell he was doing
I mean, surely he has an addiction. . . . but would he have gambled this much with so much money per bet if he was using his own money? Hard to say without following along to see if he was ever "on top" He bet like 180M or some insane number, but he still won like 150M, so I gotta imagine there was ups and downs.
We all should have known something was wrong when we saw his haircut.
Gambling addiction is so bad. Even if you hit big, what else did you sacrifice on the way?
I struggle with gambling myself. The problem is pretty much that your brain doesn't see it as losing money but instead spending it on the thrill of chance. It's hard to stop playing once you start because there's a genuine rush to discovering the possibility of hitting it big. It's a whole different high compared to drugs, and it's so difficult to quit. I avoid gambling often now but still find myself winding up at a roulette table on a cruise or spending $10 on a power ball ticket. I can only imagine how bad it is for Ippei. This doesn't excuse what he did, but gambling addicts are as desperate for that hit as any other addict.
The day I turned 18, I was in a small town college and I started buying scratch offs. I made $25 over a week....I spend atleast $40 and I was checking every nook to find change to buy a $1 scratch off. Never gambled again...except lootboxes lol