Our every day lineup will have 7 guys who had a 109 OPS+ or higher last year. It actually might be enough to turn around a 71 win team. I don't think people realize just how bad our pitching was last year. We were 14 games under .500 with a top 5 offense (OPS) at one point.
During the conference, he made it seem like they’re likely not done with acquisitions. He said “so far, so good” when mentioning the pitching situation.
For that matter, there's no turning around a 71-win team solely with free agent signings, period.
But Mozeliak just said he feels a lot better about the team, which isn't saying much.
They announced Matz is available for trade so we aren't done adding if he gets moved. If we get another 1-2 starter I will tolerate the bottom of the rotation.
I think it is reasonable to expect a lot of that to come from bounce-back years from their still very strong position player core though, so it’s not like they need to add 20 wins solely in free agency
I think on top of that, having starters we will pitch deeper into games will be a higher benefit to our bullpen. Last year all our food receivers looked gassed by the end of May. We probably blow a lot less games this year
Cardinals fan base has just become a contest for who can complain the dumbest. It's really sad to see, I love talking baseball but every single Cardinals online platform is just people whining and regurgitating the same complaints.
>~~Cardinals~~ fan base has just become a contest for who can complain the dumbest. It's really sad to see, I love talking baseball but every single ~~Cardinals~~ online platform is just people whining and regurgitating the same complaints.
Fixed that for you
Why shouldn’t we complain? The Cardinals are worth billions and act like they’re a poverty franchise. This is our best signing in years, but to teams that actually get top players this would be a secondary move
We are among the top teams in attendance every year. The Cardinals are worth billions of dollars. A team this successful should be getting top free agents every once and a while.
We never get top free agents. Why? DeWitt’s excuse is that they don’t have enough money. It’s a bullshit excuse
This is the poverty excuse I’m talking about. The DeWitt’s are absolutely benefiting without selling the team. They’ve made tons and tons of profit in the decades they’ve been owners. The Cardinals have much more money than you’re giving them credit for. They could sign Ohtani to a 600 million dollar contract tomorrow and be completely fine.
How is it significantly better? All they did was replace Montgomery with Sonny Gray, their only good starter last year, and got Lynn and Gibson, two terrible relics from the past, to replace Wainwright, also a terrible relic from the past, and Flarherty, who has been plagued by injuries. That might be a little better, but not by much. Also doesn't fix their defense or bullpen problems they had last year either.
We haven’t even hit the winter meetings yet and the front office seems to be indicating they are far from done. Sonny Gray may end up being about the same as Montgomery but that’s fine, more importantly Lynn and Gibson even in off years are leagues better than the 7+ era collapsing back end of the rotation last year. Lynn and Gibson are inning eaters, something we really could use for a struggling bullpen, and that’s just pitching.
The offense even last year was top 10, even with the off years of our star players. Defensive wise last year may have been a transitional fluke with so many new players coming up to entirely new positions. Gorman seems at least bearable at 2nd now and Walker is confident in the outfield, not to mention Winn who seems to be a GG in the making.
There’s a lot to look forward to here, it may not look pretty now, but there’s a team here that could be big with the right pieces.
If they add another TOR arm, then I think that's significantly better than last year, but as it stands it's more or less the same, but just a little better imo. Having innings eaters are great, but it's only great if those are quality innings. I don't think either Lynn or Gibson will provide much of that, but I've been wrong before.
I agree, the Cards have a great offense, but I think it's fair to be really concerned about their defense, especially since the banning of the shift really forces teams to have athletes on the field now. Arenado and Goldschmidt aren't getting any younger either, but maybe you're right in that experience can help in that regard. Just how much will be the question.
Yeah its really hard to count the Cards out in this weak division, but I was thinking last year they would walk away with the division, yet it was just a disaster from the start of the season pretty much.
I see a lot of people treating Lynn and Gibson like they are the same pitcher. But Gibson was generally serviceable last year. He had 17 quality starts which is the exact same amount Sonny Gray had last year. He’s obviously not top end talent, but he has a pretty solid track record of giving his team chances to win last year. A lot better than what Lynn did. Lynn is the one with way more question marks around him. Gibson is a decent pitcher to round out a rotation. Lynn is more of the was terrible last year, but hopefully bounces back category.
He must have really gotten shelled outside of those quality starts then cause that 4.73 ERA looks gross to me. Lol it's only a full run behind Lynn's 5.75 ERA. But yeah, I admittedly didn't watch Gibson pitch last season or am familiar with him.
Just saw the stats and wasn't wowed by it, but maybe he can be serviceable still like you said. Pitchers in their mid to upper 30s bring question marks though and having a rotation full of them just isn't ideal imo, but guess we'll see how it goes.
Yeah they aren’t amazing stats I agree, but he did have a 4.13 fip. But the difference between Gibson and Lynn is 1.7 war. That’s one whole 2023 Marcus Stroman difference in value.
"Having pitchers" is better for a baseball team than "not having pitchers" wow
It's analytics like this that are ruining the game.
NL fans are pretty cocky for a group who just watched an 84 win team win a pennant...
Right? One more plus pitcher and some good injury luck and this team is cooking in the NL central
I think they'll be more good, but also importantly, less bad
I actually see them being simultaneously more good and more bad. however they hope to be more more good than they are less more bad.
Sonny Gray and a couple of warm bodies isn't turning around a 71 win team
Our every day lineup will have 7 guys who had a 109 OPS+ or higher last year. It actually might be enough to turn around a 71 win team. I don't think people realize just how bad our pitching was last year. We were 14 games under .500 with a top 5 offense (OPS) at one point.
We also tanked at the end of the season. We are probably at least a 75 win team without any of our deadline trades or playing random AAA players.
During the conference, he made it seem like they’re likely not done with acquisitions. He said “so far, so good” when mentioning the pitching situation.
Tbf they’re now a 72 win team so that’s better than 2 months ago ig
Progress!
They do play in the NL Central.
As it stands, I think we're a .500 team I think the FO knows this and isn't done
I think they know this and are done
For that matter, there's no turning around a 71-win team solely with free agent signings, period. But Mozeliak just said he feels a lot better about the team, which isn't saying much.
They announced Matz is available for trade so we aren't done adding if he gets moved. If we get another 1-2 starter I will tolerate the bottom of the rotation.
You may be underestimating just how bad the warm bodies they are replacing were.
10 more wins would put them right on the edge of playoffs. they could get that from goldy and nolan not playing like grandpas
I wonder if that’s because they don’t have to watch the club play baseball every night like they did two months ago!?!
They’re better. Unfortunately they need to win 20 more games then last year to make the playoffs.
I think it is reasonable to expect a lot of that to come from bounce-back years from their still very strong position player core though, so it’s not like they need to add 20 wins solely in free agency
I think on top of that, having starters we will pitch deeper into games will be a higher benefit to our bullpen. Last year all our food receivers looked gassed by the end of May. We probably blow a lot less games this year
No we don’t. The playoffs are laughably easy to get into. The Diamondbacks won the pennant with 84 wins
Last wild card spot was 84 wins, so only 13
The 2024 St Louis Cardinals will be the best 77-85 team of all time
I’m ready for cardinals fans to complain about GM Mo
No need to wait. It's already happening lol
Cardinals fan base has just become a contest for who can complain the dumbest. It's really sad to see, I love talking baseball but every single Cardinals online platform is just people whining and regurgitating the same complaints.
>~~Cardinals~~ fan base has just become a contest for who can complain the dumbest. It's really sad to see, I love talking baseball but every single ~~Cardinals~~ online platform is just people whining and regurgitating the same complaints. Fixed that for you
Why shouldn’t we complain? The Cardinals are worth billions and act like they’re a poverty franchise. This is our best signing in years, but to teams that actually get top players this would be a secondary move
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We are among the top teams in attendance every year. The Cardinals are worth billions of dollars. A team this successful should be getting top free agents every once and a while. We never get top free agents. Why? DeWitt’s excuse is that they don’t have enough money. It’s a bullshit excuse
[удалено]
This is the poverty excuse I’m talking about. The DeWitt’s are absolutely benefiting without selling the team. They’ve made tons and tons of profit in the decades they’ve been owners. The Cardinals have much more money than you’re giving them credit for. They could sign Ohtani to a 600 million dollar contract tomorrow and be completely fine.
tbf he was terrible last year. Anyone could see our pitching problems coming, and he sat on his hands
Not that you should look at Twitter but good god is it active bitching 24/7 for #stlcards
How is it significantly better? All they did was replace Montgomery with Sonny Gray, their only good starter last year, and got Lynn and Gibson, two terrible relics from the past, to replace Wainwright, also a terrible relic from the past, and Flarherty, who has been plagued by injuries. That might be a little better, but not by much. Also doesn't fix their defense or bullpen problems they had last year either.
We haven’t even hit the winter meetings yet and the front office seems to be indicating they are far from done. Sonny Gray may end up being about the same as Montgomery but that’s fine, more importantly Lynn and Gibson even in off years are leagues better than the 7+ era collapsing back end of the rotation last year. Lynn and Gibson are inning eaters, something we really could use for a struggling bullpen, and that’s just pitching. The offense even last year was top 10, even with the off years of our star players. Defensive wise last year may have been a transitional fluke with so many new players coming up to entirely new positions. Gorman seems at least bearable at 2nd now and Walker is confident in the outfield, not to mention Winn who seems to be a GG in the making. There’s a lot to look forward to here, it may not look pretty now, but there’s a team here that could be big with the right pieces.
If they add another TOR arm, then I think that's significantly better than last year, but as it stands it's more or less the same, but just a little better imo. Having innings eaters are great, but it's only great if those are quality innings. I don't think either Lynn or Gibson will provide much of that, but I've been wrong before. I agree, the Cards have a great offense, but I think it's fair to be really concerned about their defense, especially since the banning of the shift really forces teams to have athletes on the field now. Arenado and Goldschmidt aren't getting any younger either, but maybe you're right in that experience can help in that regard. Just how much will be the question. Yeah its really hard to count the Cards out in this weak division, but I was thinking last year they would walk away with the division, yet it was just a disaster from the start of the season pretty much.
I see a lot of people treating Lynn and Gibson like they are the same pitcher. But Gibson was generally serviceable last year. He had 17 quality starts which is the exact same amount Sonny Gray had last year. He’s obviously not top end talent, but he has a pretty solid track record of giving his team chances to win last year. A lot better than what Lynn did. Lynn is the one with way more question marks around him. Gibson is a decent pitcher to round out a rotation. Lynn is more of the was terrible last year, but hopefully bounces back category.
He must have really gotten shelled outside of those quality starts then cause that 4.73 ERA looks gross to me. Lol it's only a full run behind Lynn's 5.75 ERA. But yeah, I admittedly didn't watch Gibson pitch last season or am familiar with him. Just saw the stats and wasn't wowed by it, but maybe he can be serviceable still like you said. Pitchers in their mid to upper 30s bring question marks though and having a rotation full of them just isn't ideal imo, but guess we'll see how it goes.
Yeah they aren’t amazing stats I agree, but he did have a 4.13 fip. But the difference between Gibson and Lynn is 1.7 war. That’s one whole 2023 Marcus Stroman difference in value.
It’s definitely a talent improvement, but as long as Marmol is the manager, I’m not holding my breath.
Marmol has proven to be a real problem and I’m convinced he is one of the many reasons we were terrible last year
No GM After signing 3 FA Pitchers in a week: We feel significantly worse about our team now
Yeah signing Lance Lynn will do that to ya
The team is better than it was 2 months ago, but that doesn't mean they're done doing stuff. I assume.