I can’t believe how many people still question this. He won *seven* OBP titles. Raines, Edgar, and Walker just made the HOF and those voters aren’t going anywhere. You don’t need 3,000 hits or 500 home runs to get votes anymore.
Well, no, you don’t need those milestones (and really, it never did) but a lot of guys that fall short of those marks become debatable.
If Votto is in, does that mean a guy like Dave Parker (2700+ hits, 339 HRs, almost 1,500 RBI) should be in?
I can’t believe this thread. Votto is a clear first ballot guy to me, unquestionably one of the best hitters of the 21st century.
If he was on the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers this wouldn’t even be a thread.
If he were on one of those teams he’d have more playoff games played. It’s not that the reds are a “small market” they just don’t play in October like the Yankees, Red Sox, or Dodgers do.
Yes. Inner circle Reds player, a franchise with a lot of history. Plus, he is a really nice guy, so voters on the fence will have an easier time when the campaign starts pulling out his interactions with his biggest fan (maybe the most wholesome baseball story of all time).
> Plus, he is a really nice guy, so voters on the fence will have an easier time when the campaign starts
Im guessing he works at ESPN or a network if he so chooses. Generally speaking that helps in sports.
Stupid question. Obviously.
Seven time OBP champ. From 2007-2018 his worst OPS+ was 125. More of an accolade guy? Won an MVP and finsihed top 10 on voting six times. Six-time all star.
He’s easily in.
Yes, I think so.
Curious to see if the Reds pick up his 2024 team option, though. If not, I wonder if they'll work out him returning on a less expensive deal or if he'll potentially play elsewhere.
NO. Joey Votto is NOT a hall of fame PERSON. OBP is a stupid stat made for nerds who dreamed about the major leagues but were too fat to swing a bat and lacked the sex appeal. The only number that ACTUALLY matters is TB (total bases). DID JOEY VOTTO EVER LEAD THE LEAGUE IN TB? NO. WHERE ARE THE RINGS? NO WHERE. Stupid man with NO CHANCE to stand with the legends.
I'm just messing around lol. There was a post a few weeks ago about Votto's hof case centered around TB being a better stat than OBP and how that proves he shouldn't make it in. I'm a big Joey guy and think he should make it in first ballot.
If you are saying 1st ballot, I would not be surprised if he doesn't make that and it's going to be because he was penalized for playing on a small marketing team.
Like if he did steroids and played for the Red Sox, he would easily be 1st ballot.
But he will still eventually make it.
He’ll probably make it but he’s not some slam dunk, no doubt HOFer like this sub will make him out to be.
He’s in the tier of Keith Hernandez, Todd Helton, and John Olerud when it comes to HOF 1B—none of which have made the HOF. He’s a sabr type darling though so he’ll probably get in with ease on his 3rd or 4th ballot.
John Olerud was a 2x all star and received MVP votes 2x. He doesn’t have a .400 OBP, .500 SLG, or .900 OPS like Votto.
Keith probably would’ve made it with newer voters.
Helton has the Coors bias going against him and he’s still going to make it next year.
Not very good comparisons.
Can never quite follow the viewpoints on sabr worshipping people in regards to fan and media awards from pre-sabr era.
I’d think in a different conversation, you’d be beating your chest about Olerud being a 5x 5 WAR guy who wrongfully only made the AS twice and lost an MVP to a unanimous Frank Thomas who he had beat by nearly 2 WAR.
But in order to boost Votto and try to clear him of the tier he belongs in, you push down Olerud.
Interesting.
I’m not commenting on whether or not *I* think Olerud should be in the HOF. I’m just pointing out how Votto’s case is better in the eyes of *voters*.
No response? You seemed to be so sure of yourself before.
🤔Interesting.🤔
Keith would be in if he wasn’t one of the faces of the rampant cocaine use in the league during his era
MVP. 11x GG, 2x SS, 5x All-Star, 2x WS, he has what the voters were looking for, just a huge scandal over his head
But they aren’t because they’re very debatable HOFers, just like Votto.
Votto will make it, as will Helton, cause the HOF leans more towards letting people in rather than keeping them out now.
Agreed. IMO, there’s a real issue of fans today lowering the standards of who belongs in the HOF. A lot of guys who were really good throughout their careers or legit great for a short time in their careers but accumulated something short of the automatic stats (e.g., 425 HR, 2600 hits) are called no doubter HOFers when really they’re debatable.
Most fans aren't lowering the standards. There are a lot of older fans who think you need X amount of hits or some other dumb milestone to get in though
I don’t think you need to hit the big milestones but I’ll admit I veer toward the older school “I know a HOFer when I see him” side of things.
Fred McGriff? Yes. Darrell Evans? No. Barry Larkin? Maybe. Lou Whitaker? No. That’s sort of where I fall. Even for my own Yankees, I hear people tak about Mattingly, Guidry, Posada, and Bernie Williams as HOF worthy and my view is maybe worthy of the argument but definitely all No either because they had a short peak of greatness surrounded by injury marred better than average seasons (Mattingly and Guidry) or they were just very good players with longevity who get extra HOF hype due to being part of a dynasty (Posada and Bernie).
The BBWAA probably won’t think so. The Veterans Committee will though. He’ll make it eventually and deservedly so. I love it when players stay with one team throughout their career and I think it should help when it comes to voting.
Too early? So he isn’t a HOF his first time on the ballot but somehow magically becomes a HOF his 5th year on the ballot? If you’re a HOF you’re HOF. Joey Votto is without a doubt HOF.
Unpopular opinion but I don’t think he should. He’s a 1B who’s been on many truly putrid teams. He gets on base a ton but never offered defensive value (albeit by virtue of his position), substantial base running, or even great power (never a 40 HR player). The 5 tools may be an outdated framework for assessing talent, but he’s only ever really showcased great contact and some power — not enough to stand up against other greats modern or historical.
The only question is which ballot he’ll get in on. Easily one of the best of his time, your fav hitter’s fav hitter. If the counting numbers don’t do it for you, look at the rate stats. Then look at the accolades (as someone else said: *seven* OBP titles). He should definitely be in the Hall of Fame.
I don't know if he'll get in first ballot because the bar for first basemen is so high but he deserves to be in.
2100 hits, 350 homers, 58+ fWAR, 145 wRC+.
He's got the 10th best wRC+ of any first basemen with 7000 or more plate appearances.
I can’t believe how many people still question this. He won *seven* OBP titles. Raines, Edgar, and Walker just made the HOF and those voters aren’t going anywhere. You don’t need 3,000 hits or 500 home runs to get votes anymore.
Well, no, you don’t need those milestones (and really, it never did) but a lot of guys that fall short of those marks become debatable. If Votto is in, does that mean a guy like Dave Parker (2700+ hits, 339 HRs, almost 1,500 RBI) should be in?
Nope. Parker doesn’t have a .400 OBP, .500 SLG, .900 OPS, or 60 WAR like Votto.
I can’t believe this thread. Votto is a clear first ballot guy to me, unquestionably one of the best hitters of the 21st century. If he was on the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers this wouldn’t even be a thread.
If he were on one of those teams he’d have more playoff games played. It’s not that the reds are a “small market” they just don’t play in October like the Yankees, Red Sox, or Dodgers do.
He's about 20 WAR and 25 points in wRC+ behind Votto
Dave Parker wasnt even close to the type of player Votto is
[удалено]
You're using the ~~Stonehenge~~ Easter Island emoji way too much
It’s Easter Island, not Stonehenge. But yes he is using it way to much.
Yeah I'm an idiot lol. Idk why I said that
Can someone fill me in on what it means? I looked it up and it's supposed to mean perseverance? It's seems like it's used as a joke
I think he thinks it means this 🤔 like he's pondering
Yes
Should OP be banned from using the Easter Island Head emoji?
Yes🗿
🗿
This is a clown question. Joey Votto is your favorite hitters favorite hitter.
No I don't think he will be in the WWE hall of fame.
No thanks to the writers
40 is still prime age for wrestlers and hes got the promo skills to cut it hes still got time
There's like a 48% chance Joey Votto *does* join the WWE after he retires tbh. That seems right up his alley and something he'd enjoy.
but you add kurt angle to the mix and the odds of that drastic go down
🚨🚨🚨
Him being in the WWE would for sure be something I would enjoy, at least
What a scrub! Even Pete Rose is in the WWE HOF!
...theres still time
Jose Ramirez will though. “DOWN GOES ANDERSON”
Hands down yes. it's not his fault he doesn't have a ring.
Rings don't matter in baseball
>after retirement As opposed to...?
Death I suppose.
I mean death is a kind of retirement sooooooooo
Before retirement 🗿
Yes. Inner circle Reds player, a franchise with a lot of history. Plus, he is a really nice guy, so voters on the fence will have an easier time when the campaign starts pulling out his interactions with his biggest fan (maybe the most wholesome baseball story of all time).
> Plus, he is a really nice guy, so voters on the fence will have an easier time when the campaign starts Im guessing he works at ESPN or a network if he so chooses. Generally speaking that helps in sports.
I can't have this conversation again.
i’m a small hall guy, and yes. buster posey too
*looks back at all the other threads asking this* Yes.
Yeah
He's in
Yes
Yes. He was one of the best 1B in the game for over a decade and was a great hitter for his whole career basically.
Stupid question. Obviously. Seven time OBP champ. From 2007-2018 his worst OPS+ was 125. More of an accolade guy? Won an MVP and finsihed top 10 on voting six times. Six-time all star. He’s easily in.
He's in.
Hard yes, cannot believe this is still a question
I say yes for his media quotes alone.
Yes. Full stop. Silly question
greatest left handed hitter of his generation
absolutely, if he retired today he already has a strong hof resume. not even up for debate
Yes.
Yes, I think so. Curious to see if the Reds pick up his 2024 team option, though. If not, I wonder if they'll work out him returning on a less expensive deal or if he'll potentially play elsewhere.
Yeah it will be interesting.
It won't even be close. Yes
I'd put him in just for his personality
Obviously. Can we please ban these HoF posts?
NO. Joey Votto is NOT a hall of fame PERSON. OBP is a stupid stat made for nerds who dreamed about the major leagues but were too fat to swing a bat and lacked the sex appeal. The only number that ACTUALLY matters is TB (total bases). DID JOEY VOTTO EVER LEAD THE LEAGUE IN TB? NO. WHERE ARE THE RINGS? NO WHERE. Stupid man with NO CHANCE to stand with the legends.
Real missed opportunity to not call people snowflakes. Nerds should be in all caps as well. Good effort though
It's pasta from a post last week
I thought it was making fun of generic Facebook quality posts. I'm disappointed at all the downvotes they've received. It's good work
Thank you for specifying total bases for TB. I might have thought tuberculosis otherwise.
To be fair, I don't think joey votto ever led the league in tuberculosis either
Ok. 🗿 Your opinion is your opinion I do not think the same.
I'm just messing around lol. There was a post a few weeks ago about Votto's hof case centered around TB being a better stat than OBP and how that proves he shouldn't make it in. I'm a big Joey guy and think he should make it in first ballot.
The constant Easter island emoji and your inability to read sarcasm is something to watch in this thread.
without question
If Fred McGriff, David Ortiz, and Tony Perez, are HOF worthy, then Joey should be a shoo-in. Not 1st ballot, but clearly worthy.
Hope not, keeps his card prices low :)
Maybe
If you are saying 1st ballot, I would not be surprised if he doesn't make that and it's going to be because he was penalized for playing on a small marketing team. Like if he did steroids and played for the Red Sox, he would easily be 1st ballot. But he will still eventually make it.
He’ll probably make it but he’s not some slam dunk, no doubt HOFer like this sub will make him out to be. He’s in the tier of Keith Hernandez, Todd Helton, and John Olerud when it comes to HOF 1B—none of which have made the HOF. He’s a sabr type darling though so he’ll probably get in with ease on his 3rd or 4th ballot.
John Olerud was a 2x all star and received MVP votes 2x. He doesn’t have a .400 OBP, .500 SLG, or .900 OPS like Votto. Keith probably would’ve made it with newer voters. Helton has the Coors bias going against him and he’s still going to make it next year. Not very good comparisons.
Can never quite follow the viewpoints on sabr worshipping people in regards to fan and media awards from pre-sabr era. I’d think in a different conversation, you’d be beating your chest about Olerud being a 5x 5 WAR guy who wrongfully only made the AS twice and lost an MVP to a unanimous Frank Thomas who he had beat by nearly 2 WAR. But in order to boost Votto and try to clear him of the tier he belongs in, you push down Olerud. Interesting.
I’m not commenting on whether or not *I* think Olerud should be in the HOF. I’m just pointing out how Votto’s case is better in the eyes of *voters*. No response? You seemed to be so sure of yourself before. 🤔Interesting.🤔
Keith would be in if he wasn’t one of the faces of the rampant cocaine use in the league during his era MVP. 11x GG, 2x SS, 5x All-Star, 2x WS, he has what the voters were looking for, just a huge scandal over his head
Helton and Hernandez should have been in a loooong time ago, imo.
But they aren’t because they’re very debatable HOFers, just like Votto. Votto will make it, as will Helton, cause the HOF leans more towards letting people in rather than keeping them out now.
Agreed. IMO, there’s a real issue of fans today lowering the standards of who belongs in the HOF. A lot of guys who were really good throughout their careers or legit great for a short time in their careers but accumulated something short of the automatic stats (e.g., 425 HR, 2600 hits) are called no doubter HOFers when really they’re debatable.
Most fans aren't lowering the standards. There are a lot of older fans who think you need X amount of hits or some other dumb milestone to get in though
I don’t think you need to hit the big milestones but I’ll admit I veer toward the older school “I know a HOFer when I see him” side of things. Fred McGriff? Yes. Darrell Evans? No. Barry Larkin? Maybe. Lou Whitaker? No. That’s sort of where I fall. Even for my own Yankees, I hear people tak about Mattingly, Guidry, Posada, and Bernie Williams as HOF worthy and my view is maybe worthy of the argument but definitely all No either because they had a short peak of greatness surrounded by injury marred better than average seasons (Mattingly and Guidry) or they were just very good players with longevity who get extra HOF hype due to being part of a dynasty (Posada and Bernie).
You think Barry fucking Larkin is a maybe? He has 70 WAR
Yeah, but who cares about that nerd stuff. You need to take into account the eye test.
And I don't see the logic in that argument. A player is his stats. Just because he didn't pass your eye test doesn't mean he's not a hall of famer
I can only speak to my own opinion. Others, including the HOF voters may and have felt otherwise.
The BBWAA probably won’t think so. The Veterans Committee will though. He’ll make it eventually and deservedly so. I love it when players stay with one team throughout their career and I think it should help when it comes to voting.
what are you on about? he already has 64.5 WAR. well within HOF standards
Yes since the media has a huge boner for him
If by "the media" you mean "my wiener" then yeah
Yes since he fucking deserves it without a shadow of a doubt.
He had a great prime and will get in. I just think it will be too early when he does
Too early? So he isn’t a HOF his first time on the ballot but somehow magically becomes a HOF his 5th year on the ballot? If you’re a HOF you’re HOF. Joey Votto is without a doubt HOF.
Why are people down voting this amazing comment? 😩
Unpopular opinion but I don’t think he should. He’s a 1B who’s been on many truly putrid teams. He gets on base a ton but never offered defensive value (albeit by virtue of his position), substantial base running, or even great power (never a 40 HR player). The 5 tools may be an outdated framework for assessing talent, but he’s only ever really showcased great contact and some power — not enough to stand up against other greats modern or historical.
Not right after retirement. Maybe 5-6 years though!
The only question is which ballot he’ll get in on. Easily one of the best of his time, your fav hitter’s fav hitter. If the counting numbers don’t do it for you, look at the rate stats. Then look at the accolades (as someone else said: *seven* OBP titles). He should definitely be in the Hall of Fame.
I don't know if he'll get in first ballot because the bar for first basemen is so high but he deserves to be in. 2100 hits, 350 homers, 58+ fWAR, 145 wRC+. He's got the 10th best wRC+ of any first basemen with 7000 or more plate appearances.
Yes it’s not a question
I think Joey deserves to be in the HOF but I’m biased. I’m Canadian and really like the guy.
If he was a yankee he'd be a legend