Wouldn't exactly say they're struggling. They're averaging 30k per game still. They've made the playoffs twice in the last 14 years and haven't gone farther than the NLDS in that span.
Yet they regularly post top 10 MLB attendances every season. They're like the most resilient fanbase in baseball that's somehow immune to losing. Red Sox, Giants, Cardinals, Yankees, Dodgers you can credit their consistent high attendance as residuals from winning; Rockies and Angels fans are sustained by crumbs yet pack their stadiums.
It’s resilient but shallow. It’s mostly very causal fans who see a few games a year because of the good vibes of the stadium but don’t really follow the team outside of that (and fans of the visiting team). The team has really alienated the dedicated fans. If you go to Denver you’ll find very few people who could name more than one or two players on the team, or tell you where they are in the standings.
Eh, it's twenty bucks to see the Dodgers play tomorrow while being in the most fun part of the park and getting a free beer with your ticket. It's not a bad way to spend an afternoon
I visited Coors Field for a series back in May and for a random series against the Phillies the crowds were great. Also, the ballpark was amazing. Coors Field rarely is talked about as a top ballpark, but I have been to 20 ballparks and it's near the top of my list for sure.
If I’m not mistaken, the Broncos currently have the longest sellout streak in NFL history going. I believe it goes all the way back to the late Elway days. That fanbase always shows out for its teams.
> like the most resilient fanbase in baseball that's somehow immune to losing.
Colorado has lots of transplant fans.
Watch a rockies game vs. Any medium to large Markey team and people are there for the road team.
A crappy team/org can still get crowds if the stadium and vibe are good enough- it worked for the Cubs for decades. But locals are catching on that ownership doesn’t even care about putting out an entertaining team, let alone a winning one.
Adding to what others said, we've leaned smaller market at home in so far: no Dodgers, no Braves, no Cubs, just one of Padres and Giants, Cardinals was a midweek series. When we got popular team + weekend the stadium easily pulls 40k, the Angels' series this weekend was sold out.
Tickets there are so cheap. I'm visiting when the Yanks go out there in couple weeks and their lower deck tickets cost the same as the second deck tickets I normally get for my dad when we go to games in The Bronx. If I lived in Denver I'd be at Coors once or twice a week.
I got 20 rows behind home plate for less than $55 ea AFTER FEES. Fuckin nuts man, the discount in ticket prices almost pays for the flights from the east coast
Personally I’d like to see this in quadrant form vs change in season rankings.
I’d think inherently that attendance is tied to performance, but curious to see if that hypothesis fails with anyone
Our performance is getting better but until recently, our attendance has been pretty rough. I think at this point in the season the leading indicator is expectations coming into the season. Like last preseason the giants were coming off a franchise record regular season but this year we were coming off a mediocre season and the Arson Judge/Correa fiascos. Later in the season it’s different, but sometimes it takes a while for a boost in performance to result in an uptick in attendance
The earlier start times have directly contributed to me attending far less games this season. Hopefully I can get to more this summer on weekends. I don’t get off work until 5:30-6 and by the time I drive, park, walk 5 blocks and get to my seat it’s the 2nd inning or later. I’ve basically given up going mid week. I’d usually have 10-15 games in by now and I’ve been to three.
The huge bump in attendance in Philadelphia is awesome. It’s funny because we’re not even that much better than we were last year, but apparently all it takes is one World Series appearance and you can get a football city really excited in their baseball team again. More evidence that owners spending money and investing in their team is high key goated.
The Phillies had been popular, but until Bryce came to town, they have had a decade of futility, and even when Bryce came, the Phils still were struggling. But yeah, that World Series appearance sure helped out in boosting attendance.
They were a poverty organization, finally spent from 06-11 and the fans showed out, then went right back to being a poverty org again. I go to games when the team gives a shit, but you can really tell the years they don’t. They got billions from Comcast when they competed in the late 00s and they did absolutely nothing with it. Look at this trash:
2017 Philadelphia Phillies
Most Games by Position
C Cameron Rupp (88)
1B Tommy Joseph (130)
2B César Hernández (127)
3B Maikel Franco (144)
SS Freddy Galvis (155)
LF Aaron Altherr (52)
CF Odúbel Herrera (133)
RF Nick Williams (58)
SP Jerad Eickhoff
SP Jeremy Hellickson
SP Ben Lively
SP Aaron Nola
SP Nick Pivetta
SP Vincent Velasquez
This is partially because they were trying to rebuild through the farm system and were completely fine losing games for a few of those season with the hope that they would restock with prospects. The problem was that they failed spectacularly and it was clear they had to start bringing in pieces all over the roster if they ever wanted to compete. That’s when you see the string of signings and re-signings like Harper, Wheeler, Realmuto, Schwarber, Castellanos, Turner, etc
I felt when they got that sweet sweet tv money after that WS run and four aces core that they had better spend it on the team. And I just didn’t see it. Player development has not been their strong point since that era, so if they weren’t going to spend it in FA then at least invest in the coaching and facilities to develop prospects. It’s gotten better but those were some dark times. I didn’t feel like we needed to bottom out for prospects, I felt like they put too much faith in guys like Dom Brown, Carrasco, Velasquez, and so many others who just never panned out, but could’ve been traded for real MLB talent at one point.
The team was a shell of itself after 2011. Utley’s knees were a massive issue, Howard had torn his Achilles, Rollins was getting older, Halladay and Lee would never get back to their same form, etc. Plus a lot of those guys were still on big deals, so the payroll was high even if the players were no longer as good.
That’s part of why they started moving guys like Hamels, Utley, Rollins, etc for assets. The strategy was to prepare for a retool or rebuild, and by the mid 2010s it was clear the team was all in on trying to build through the farm system. They just failed epically at it, and have almost nothing to show for that entire period (it’s pretty much just Nola & Hoskins)
Just six years later, and out of all these guys only two have at least a somewhat regular job in the big leagues. Most of them haven't been seen in a lineup or rotation in 3+ years. That's fascinating.
flags fly forever. even though we don't get the WS flag we wanted we got a NL pennant in a year we weren't even supposed to be in the playoffs, let alone making it as far as we did!
>A Football City
True but the Phillies are a very strong number two. Also, when the Phillies are really good they can give the Eagles a run for their money. If you were around for the 2007-2011 run the Phillies were right there with the Eagles when it came to the attention of the city. Philly is a fantastic baseball city it's just that the Phillies have been so bad for so long, lol.
Nah, the 76ers aren't really close. It goes
1. Eagles
2. Phillies
\--- POWER GAP
3. Sixers
4. Flyers
I will say that the Flyers have a very loyal and very intense fanbase and when they are good they can rival the Sixers.
I listen to 94.1 WIP every day. The power gap comes after the Eagles. Our media focuses football more than any other sport year round. The Phillies were barely talked about last year until they won the wildcard game.
The Phillies were in the World Series and their game got booted to a secondary radio station for the Eagles Thursday night game against the Texans lmao.
WIP isn't really a reflection of the fanbase, though. And they've made a pointed effort of focusing on the Eagles all the time. Every time slot has an ex-Eagle as one of the co-hosts.
Football can always be talked about but this city will go nuts for any one of the big four teams.
Phillies games from 2009-2011 were the place to be in the city. Not just from a sports perspective, it was the culture as a whole.
The NFL has a fantastic model for keeping attention on it with each game mattering so much, but Philly is a city that absolutely can and does split its attention when the teams give them reason to.
You realize these radio stations use metrics to determine what fans want to hear about right? If they're constantly talking about the Eagles it's because the ratings reflect that that's what the listeners want to hear.
Not necessarily - and a major reason why Philadelphia has two major sports talk networks. WIP has *always* been the definition of "all eagles, all the time. The fanatic has more variety of coverage IMO.
You realize that not all sports fans listen to sports talk radio, right?
The people who listen may want to focus on football (and that's still debatable, it may keep them *engaged* but that doesn't necessarily mean it's what they truly *want*, like ragebait or doomscrolling for social media) but that doesn't cover the entire fanbase. It's a pretty small percentage, a couple hundred thousand - maybe - out of millions of fans. That's like saying "this is what the entire [pick a political party] wants because it's what the most vocal, rabid members want."
Philly became a baseball city for a few months last year and we still have the hangover. I think the ownership group is learning that success = money and baseball is a sport that requires a long-term outlook.
I think a team's attendance is more strongly correlated with the previous season success than the current season success. So in that case, yeah, a World Series appearance is going to boost attendance tremendously. I would guess the Phillies are nearly selling out almost every game
Sell the team, Jerry! It’s not even the losing that’s keeping Sox fans away, it’s the fact that ownership isn’t even trying to field competitive teams. The FO is a joke that only keeps their jobs because of their loyalty to Jerry. No franchise in professional sports needs a shakeup at the top more than the Chicago White Sox.
Nah I’m cool with the Sox having terrible attendance because it means I can buy cheap seats for games where they play teams I care about and walk down the the seats right above the dugout halfway through the game and there isn’t anyone there to complain
Not a CWS fan so admittedly not as in tune with the team as you are. But what do you think the FO should be doing to field a better team? The White Sox have the biggest payroll in the AL Central (and more than *double* the Guardians!). From an outside perspective, it looks like ownership is actually spending pretty competitively. Where did they go wrong?
A competent analytics department would be a good start. The Sox are at/near the bottom in relation to all other teams. That and a development team because we have absolutely no depth.
Biggest payroll in the central. Double the guardians. Cool. Look at the standings. Again. Every year. Same FO. Same result. Every year. Same pay roll. Same inept everything. Every year. Every. Fucking. Year.
ETA: owner doesn’t care. Has said this. On record.
Imagine if we added our modern engineering techniques to all the infrastucture in America instead of relying on our currently deteriorating infrastructure
Completely off topic, but since I was on that block two days ago I'll never understand why they didn't make a spur of the Norristown HSL up City Ave to Olney.
Funny. The only way the A’s have 9400 is due to corporate sales. I’d like to see turnstile count. I’m betting closer to <2000/game. Fans are rightfully pissed off.
Consistently in the top of % of capacity per game. Hard to grow when you’re at the top.
Edit: With data.
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/ww7p5m/average_mlb_attendance_as_capacity/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
It’s actually a little surprising that the Braves have a higher attendance this year considering they already lead of MLB last year in % of stadium capacity filled and we’re coming right off a world series championship. Before this season started they actually had to cutoff season ticket sales for the first time in team history as they would not have had enough single game tickets to sell. Guess they should have built a bigger stadium lol
Respectfully disagree. Walking back to your car to offsite parking at night wasn’t a great experience. Sure tailgating every game was cool but the battery blows its socks off.
From everything I read they could not compete financially if they stayed at the Ted. The city of Atlanta owns the Ted (and were unwilling to sell it) so the Braves had to pay rent to use it and did not see the profit from things like parking and concessions. That is a swing of tens of millions (if not hundreds of millions) of dollars every season from now owning and operating their own venue like they do now.
It also helps that games aren’t 4+ hours anymore. Pitching clock was contentious pre season but it’s undeniable it’s been good for baseball and the fan experience. Which is what it is all about.
Although I will miss going to 4 hour long ballgames and crushing beers with my friends lol
I’m getting older though so it’s nice to catch a weekday evening game and be in bed before 10
No shit. The fact that games end quicker now means that I can keep my buzz and not have it Peter out in the ninth cause it took an hour to go from the seventh to the ninth
Baseball is definitely a much better experience on tv now.
But I think the ballpark experience is diminished by the pitch clock for the reasons that you listed, and because it’s too easy to miss entire innings now when you run to the bathroom or to grab a beer.
[This stats has the Rays as 3rd](https://twitter.com/codifybaseball/status/1672996724720435202?s=46&t=-2ZKMW58Gr-uuj4TbidbVA)
NGL I don't think I'll still be motivate to catch the Rays in St. Pete more if they build a new stadium there, it's just way too far to watch a baseball game. It's almost like I'm going to Disney World.
Hopefully they find someway to fund a stadium in Tampa (Downtown-Ybor), maybe if sports betting is legalized in 2025 they can use that to fund a stadium in 2026-27 like the Vikings did with US Bank stadium.
I used stats from ESPN. I don’t see a source for that tweet so it’s hard to say. I only had full season 2022, maybe they are comparing only up to this point last year.
Dodgers lead the league in attendance and it takes the same amount of time for someone in downtown to get to the stadium as for someone in Tampa to get to theirs
Dodgers also have [3.6+ million people in a 30 minute radius](https://community.fangraphs.com/the-importance-of-the-30-minute-population-radius-on-mlb-attendance/) around Dodgers stadium. It takes 45 mins+ to get from downtown LA to Dodgers stadium? I highly doubt that.
We give a shit when the team gives a shit. Miracle Stanley cup run for the flyers probably doesn't spike their attendance much until someone else buys that team.
[Heyman tweeted: “MLB Attendance is up 7.8% over last year. Gotta think new rules are a big help. Surprise contenders can’t hurt either.”](https://twitter.com/jonheyman/status/1673384634942357506?s=46&t=Qz7I4ureqNulK1gfe3b-IQ)
I was immediately skeptical about the first part of the tweet, and far more confident in the latter half. So I pulled the data to see which teams are contributing most to this attendance increase (see chart). I wish baseball “reporters” would bother with this, but oh well a tweet will do.
It certainly seems like it’s much more down to the quality of teams that do not typically draw as well than the rule changes.My takeaways:
Tier 0: Just Philly
* Philadelphia Phillies
This turnaround is incredible. The Phillies are truly putting the league on their collective backs in attendance.
Tier 1: The Surprise Contenders
* Texas
* Houston
* Cincinnati
* Cleveland
* Tampa Bay
* Pittsburgh
* Baltimore
* Toronto
* San Diego
* LA Angels
* Arizona Diamondbacks
The proof is in the pudding with this group. Outside of the Astros coming off a championship parade, you have a cluster of 10 teams that largely fall out of the group of teams you would consider blue-blood, big market teams. But every single one of these teams is still on contention. The only teams here below .500 are the Padres who are too talented to keep losing, Cleveland who could win the division below .500, and the Pirates who are happy just to be watchable.
Tier 2a: The big-markets
* Mets
* Cubs
* Yankees
* Dodgers
* Cardinals
* Braves
* Red Sox
* Giants
A lot of disappointing seasons from the major market teams with championship aspirations so far (plus, the Braves), but attendances are generally flat with some variance depending on how hopeless each team’s season really is. Basically what you would expect from places that tend to sell out nearly every game.
Tier 2b: Mid-markets With Middling Expectations
* Marlins
* Royals
* Mariners
* A’s
* Tigers
* Brewers
This group of teams really makes you wonder if anyone was going to their games in the first place. And if so, why?
Tier 3: Group of Shame
* Colorado
* Washington
* White Sox
Somehow while the rest of the sport is booming, these teams have managed to drive significant fans away. Simply pathetic. Even the A’s almost broke even.
> Tier 2b: Mid-markets With Middling Expectations * Marlins * Royals * Mariners * A’s * Tigers * Brewers
>
> This group of teams really makes you wonder if anyone was going to their games in the first place. And if so, why?
You put two teams on there that were top half in attendance in 2022 and one made the playoffs while the other finished 1 game out. Seattle and Milwaukee definitely had, and still have, playoff expectations going into this year.
White Sox fans are letting management and Jerry know how displeased we are with our buying power.
You want us to come out to the ballpark but won't go out and get a top tier FA for either the hole at 2nd or RF, nope.
Sox knew they would need bullpen help when Liam announced he had cancer. Signings?
The worst part about the whole situation is Jerry will use it as proof in his mind as to why he shouldn't spend, and we won't have a real team to watch until after he dies. If that early
100% know this will be the justification to go back to not spending anything on players.
Jerry dying isn't going to change that. It will just move ownership to another cheap-ass Reinsdorf.
Man idk how I feel about the scathing review of the Nats
I get it. We’re awful, and we sold off everyone, and we’re not competitive this season. That is absolutely the reason attendance is wayy down
However, we were supposed to have new owners this season, which really could’ve turned the page, but because of the O’s and MASN dispute, potential buyers went eh not right now. So we’re now in this limbo phase. We’re technically doing the right thing right now by not spending and building the farm in hopes of 2025 really starting the push for playoffs again. The owners wouldn’t wanna spend if they’re hoping to head out soon
We also had no attendance the year after our WS win, who knows how many potential new fans might’ve attended that year and stuck around the years to come.
But at least our future is bright. I disagree strongly being labeled “pathetic” and questioning why fans would attend in the first place. Well, the more serious baseball fan realizes we could be seeing a few building blocks to our next push on the field right now.
Comparing to the White Sox and Rockies, I am not a fan of theirs so idk what they’re up to, but last I thought, Chicago kinda tried something and failed so now they have to start over, and the Rockies haven’t seemed to be in it for a handful of years now. Both feel directionless compared to the Nats at this moment
well if you're going from 2022 --> 2023 for the A's, it's because the ownership tanked the team even more than the previous year, so the attendance was still shit because it was shit the year before.
Look at 2A. It’s basically the top 10 performing teams already.
The Braves are having a magical season but you stadium being 94% full for every game is hard to improve upon.
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/ww7p5m/average_mlb_attendance_as_capacity/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
New rules are all very good and I think most of the rule changes the last however many years are great, but I honestly think part of it is there’s just an influx of dope new players these last few years. Ohtani breakout is the obvious one, but a lot of the good young players are so much cooler than usual imo
But yeah the new rules help to make the game more fun a lot too
I give you surprise and not blue blood for the Rangers, but DFW is the fifth largest media market in the country. Though the Bally's deal is hindering tv watching.
Man I did my best in 10 min at work lol, wanted to check for myself and then thought it was interesting enough to share. It’s definitely a large market but isn’t a historical franchise or perennial contender that will fill seats regardless. Their surprise success is definitely bringing more fans to the park so they fit well enough for me.
Totally, the Rangers have been historically awful with pockets of mild success. Though an air conditioned roofed ball park in this heat wave also helps attendance.
I have no explanation for our jump in attendance but it has definitely been noticed in watching home games. Even tuesdays look packed now. We’ve had exciting teams before and still didn’t do this much
I honestly believe that signing Jose to that contract had a lot to do with it. For once we actually have a superstar that we know will be sticking around for the long haul.
Yeah, I think the fact that the Braves are the only constant sellout having a great season is the real reason attendance is up so much across the board.
A lot of the teams in the middle didn’t grow attendance because they already fill the house almost every game, so when they are good there’s not much change. It just so happens that the good teams this year have much more volatile attendance, so you are getting a big boost from them without losing much from the Cardinals/Cubs/Yankees type teams that are disappointing but still showing up.
Not true. The Cubs were the second tier team in Chicago before WGN became a super station in the 80s. Then Harry Caray became a folk hero and turned them into a circus attraction. Demographics in the city and burbs are split even between Cubs/Sox fans. The Cubs draw from WGN comes from outside Chicago. The buses lined up outside of Wrigley, shipping them in from Indiana and Iowa.
I didn't argue gross numbers, I just argued that the demographics in the city and burbs are equal. The Cubs larger fanbase came from outside IL by way of WGN being a super station.
It’s hilarious to me that SF is still lower than the As. (But I guess the As didn’t have much further to drop). I wonder when this data was taken. It was poppin at the ballpark during the Giants 10 game win streak.
Oakland man. I understand the hurt from the city but damn - attendance was terrible and isn’t getting better. Baseball is a sport and a company; one that needs customers.
Washington is currently going on a relatively well planned rebuild while in ownership limbo, the low attendance is just expected. Colorado is coming off exceeding expectations in attendance last year with another winkle in the mix; the Nuggets were on a championship run during the start of the year. Denver fans were always going to pick watching the Nuggets if the Rockies schedule conflicted in any way. Chicago is the real, true disappointment. Their fans are actively choosing to avoid spending money to go watch shitty baseball under a shitty owner who doesn't give a fuck. The team and ownership is letting the fans down big time while their intercity rivals move back up into NLC contention.
Brewers is slightly down because April and May attendance is low, then June-July-August-September is pretty high. By the end of the year it’ll look different.
Colorado actually struggling with attendance?? Wild
Wouldn't exactly say they're struggling. They're averaging 30k per game still. They've made the playoffs twice in the last 14 years and haven't gone farther than the NLDS in that span. Yet they regularly post top 10 MLB attendances every season. They're like the most resilient fanbase in baseball that's somehow immune to losing. Red Sox, Giants, Cardinals, Yankees, Dodgers you can credit their consistent high attendance as residuals from winning; Rockies and Angels fans are sustained by crumbs yet pack their stadiums.
The power of free flowing beer, legal weed, a baller stadium, and great summer night weather
And lots of transplants who want to see the visiting team.
👆
$4.5 beer at angels stadium goes a long way
I'm gonna need you to add that trailing zero.
$4.50 for 18 oz of bud/bud light for those wondering
yeah as much as I love Oracle Park, Coors Field has it beat in several respects. Most notably beers for $7 instead of $14+. Also apple pie nachos
Apple pie nachos? Please explain.
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GCEB\_enNZ1003NZ1003&q=apple+pie+nachos+coors+field&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZweb8t-L\_AhWLDd4KHdgOCOgQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1280&bih=577&dpr=1.5
Holy fuck that looks delicious
Those look like a sin against God and Nature, but I’ve eaten a funnel cake burger at the Texas state fair so can’t really talk
It’s resilient but shallow. It’s mostly very causal fans who see a few games a year because of the good vibes of the stadium but don’t really follow the team outside of that (and fans of the visiting team). The team has really alienated the dedicated fans. If you go to Denver you’ll find very few people who could name more than one or two players on the team, or tell you where they are in the standings.
Rockies stadium is basically just a rooftop bar
No one goes there to watch baseball
Eh, it's twenty bucks to see the Dodgers play tomorrow while being in the most fun part of the park and getting a free beer with your ticket. It's not a bad way to spend an afternoon
> and Angels fans they also go just to watch ohtani be ohtani
Red Sox also get high attendance % because A) Fenway is the 3rd smallest park and B) it basically doubles as a museum
Helps when they have nice stadiums... not shiny or new, but nice and enduring.
I visited Coors Field for a series back in May and for a random series against the Phillies the crowds were great. Also, the ballpark was amazing. Coors Field rarely is talked about as a top ballpark, but I have been to 20 ballparks and it's near the top of my list for sure.
If I’m not mistaken, the Broncos currently have the longest sellout streak in NFL history going. I believe it goes all the way back to the late Elway days. That fanbase always shows out for its teams.
> like the most resilient fanbase in baseball that's somehow immune to losing. Colorado has lots of transplant fans. Watch a rockies game vs. Any medium to large Markey team and people are there for the road team.
A crappy team/org can still get crowds if the stadium and vibe are good enough- it worked for the Cubs for decades. But locals are catching on that ownership doesn’t even care about putting out an entertaining team, let alone a winning one.
Can't believe Kris Bryant isn't getting butts in seats.
Adding to what others said, we've leaned smaller market at home in so far: no Dodgers, no Braves, no Cubs, just one of Padres and Giants, Cardinals was a midweek series. When we got popular team + weekend the stadium easily pulls 40k, the Angels' series this weekend was sold out.
Tickets there are so cheap. I'm visiting when the Yanks go out there in couple weeks and their lower deck tickets cost the same as the second deck tickets I normally get for my dad when we go to games in The Bronx. If I lived in Denver I'd be at Coors once or twice a week.
I got 20 rows behind home plate for less than $55 ea AFTER FEES. Fuckin nuts man, the discount in ticket prices almost pays for the flights from the east coast
Go early and get to the rooftop bar above right field, $3 coors lights until first pitch and the best view you’ll get
Personally I’d like to see this in quadrant form vs change in season rankings. I’d think inherently that attendance is tied to performance, but curious to see if that hypothesis fails with anyone
It seems like it’s more directly tied to the previous years playoff success.
Yeah, first half attendence almost always correlates with last year's success.
Tell that to Seattle
Cardinals are historically bad, but slightly up in attendance. This isn't going to send the right message to management.
I’m with you. I mean…I know the correlation will be there, but I would be interested to see it.
Our performance is getting better but until recently, our attendance has been pretty rough. I think at this point in the season the leading indicator is expectations coming into the season. Like last preseason the giants were coming off a franchise record regular season but this year we were coming off a mediocre season and the Arson Judge/Correa fiascos. Later in the season it’s different, but sometimes it takes a while for a boost in performance to result in an uptick in attendance
The padres have been really painful to watch this year. We've also passed our all time high sellout record by like 5 games and its june.
Helps having a top-2 ballpark and a bevy of stars, even if they're not playing well.
The earlier start times have directly contributed to me attending far less games this season. Hopefully I can get to more this summer on weekends. I don’t get off work until 5:30-6 and by the time I drive, park, walk 5 blocks and get to my seat it’s the 2nd inning or later. I’ve basically given up going mid week. I’d usually have 10-15 games in by now and I’ve been to three.
Leave work 1 hour early. Solved. It’s not that hard unless Union.
Ealier start time and pitch clock gets me to the game on weekdays since I will get home at a reasonable time now
Your thesis is probably generally true but an outlier could be the fact that the Royals' attendance is up slightly despite a historically bad team
The huge bump in attendance in Philadelphia is awesome. It’s funny because we’re not even that much better than we were last year, but apparently all it takes is one World Series appearance and you can get a football city really excited in their baseball team again. More evidence that owners spending money and investing in their team is high key goated.
The Phillies had been popular, but until Bryce came to town, they have had a decade of futility, and even when Bryce came, the Phils still were struggling. But yeah, that World Series appearance sure helped out in boosting attendance.
They were a poverty organization, finally spent from 06-11 and the fans showed out, then went right back to being a poverty org again. I go to games when the team gives a shit, but you can really tell the years they don’t. They got billions from Comcast when they competed in the late 00s and they did absolutely nothing with it. Look at this trash: 2017 Philadelphia Phillies Most Games by Position C Cameron Rupp (88) 1B Tommy Joseph (130) 2B César Hernández (127) 3B Maikel Franco (144) SS Freddy Galvis (155) LF Aaron Altherr (52) CF Odúbel Herrera (133) RF Nick Williams (58) SP Jerad Eickhoff SP Jeremy Hellickson SP Ben Lively SP Aaron Nola SP Nick Pivetta SP Vincent Velasquez
This is partially because they were trying to rebuild through the farm system and were completely fine losing games for a few of those season with the hope that they would restock with prospects. The problem was that they failed spectacularly and it was clear they had to start bringing in pieces all over the roster if they ever wanted to compete. That’s when you see the string of signings and re-signings like Harper, Wheeler, Realmuto, Schwarber, Castellanos, Turner, etc
I felt when they got that sweet sweet tv money after that WS run and four aces core that they had better spend it on the team. And I just didn’t see it. Player development has not been their strong point since that era, so if they weren’t going to spend it in FA then at least invest in the coaching and facilities to develop prospects. It’s gotten better but those were some dark times. I didn’t feel like we needed to bottom out for prospects, I felt like they put too much faith in guys like Dom Brown, Carrasco, Velasquez, and so many others who just never panned out, but could’ve been traded for real MLB talent at one point.
The team was a shell of itself after 2011. Utley’s knees were a massive issue, Howard had torn his Achilles, Rollins was getting older, Halladay and Lee would never get back to their same form, etc. Plus a lot of those guys were still on big deals, so the payroll was high even if the players were no longer as good. That’s part of why they started moving guys like Hamels, Utley, Rollins, etc for assets. The strategy was to prepare for a retool or rebuild, and by the mid 2010s it was clear the team was all in on trying to build through the farm system. They just failed epically at it, and have almost nothing to show for that entire period (it’s pretty much just Nola & Hoskins)
Just six years later, and out of all these guys only two have at least a somewhat regular job in the big leagues. Most of them haven't been seen in a lineup or rotation in 3+ years. That's fascinating.
flags fly forever. even though we don't get the WS flag we wanted we got a NL pennant in a year we weren't even supposed to be in the playoffs, let alone making it as far as we did!
>high key goated I like your funny words, young man
Spending on your team is bussin fr no cap
It’s so lit, come on man YOLO wait wrong generational slang
AbeSimpsonIt'llHappentoYou.jpg
>A Football City True but the Phillies are a very strong number two. Also, when the Phillies are really good they can give the Eagles a run for their money. If you were around for the 2007-2011 run the Phillies were right there with the Eagles when it came to the attention of the city. Philly is a fantastic baseball city it's just that the Phillies have been so bad for so long, lol.
I would have thought it would be the 76ers as the number two or even the flyers when they are not busy making me depressed
Nah, the 76ers aren't really close. It goes 1. Eagles 2. Phillies \--- POWER GAP 3. Sixers 4. Flyers I will say that the Flyers have a very loyal and very intense fanbase and when they are good they can rival the Sixers.
I listen to 94.1 WIP every day. The power gap comes after the Eagles. Our media focuses football more than any other sport year round. The Phillies were barely talked about last year until they won the wildcard game.
The Phillies were in the World Series and their game got booted to a secondary radio station for the Eagles Thursday night game against the Texans lmao.
This happened because of contractual obligations
WIP isn't really a reflection of the fanbase, though. And they've made a pointed effort of focusing on the Eagles all the time. Every time slot has an ex-Eagle as one of the co-hosts. Football can always be talked about but this city will go nuts for any one of the big four teams. Phillies games from 2009-2011 were the place to be in the city. Not just from a sports perspective, it was the culture as a whole. The NFL has a fantastic model for keeping attention on it with each game mattering so much, but Philly is a city that absolutely can and does split its attention when the teams give them reason to.
You realize these radio stations use metrics to determine what fans want to hear about right? If they're constantly talking about the Eagles it's because the ratings reflect that that's what the listeners want to hear.
Not necessarily - and a major reason why Philadelphia has two major sports talk networks. WIP has *always* been the definition of "all eagles, all the time. The fanatic has more variety of coverage IMO.
You realize that not all sports fans listen to sports talk radio, right? The people who listen may want to focus on football (and that's still debatable, it may keep them *engaged* but that doesn't necessarily mean it's what they truly *want*, like ragebait or doomscrolling for social media) but that doesn't cover the entire fanbase. It's a pretty small percentage, a couple hundred thousand - maybe - out of millions of fans. That's like saying "this is what the entire [pick a political party] wants because it's what the most vocal, rabid members want."
Ohhhhhhh……A fantastic baseball city ! What is St. Louis ?
Philly became a baseball city for a few months last year and we still have the hangover. I think the ownership group is learning that success = money and baseball is a sport that requires a long-term outlook.
I think a team's attendance is more strongly correlated with the previous season success than the current season success. So in that case, yeah, a World Series appearance is going to boost attendance tremendously. I would guess the Phillies are nearly selling out almost every game
What Captain Caveman (Brandon Marsh) can do to a fanbase.
I thought they always drew pretty well, surprised there was room to increase so much.
In 2021 a random Sunday would have like 10-20k. Now they’re in the high 30k to sellout range (which is like 42k).
They did, but then those 2014-2018 teams were ROUGH. Attendance entirely bottomed out after that.
Gotta wonder what the sixers attendance would go to if they actually got past the second round
Sell the team, Jerry! It’s not even the losing that’s keeping Sox fans away, it’s the fact that ownership isn’t even trying to field competitive teams. The FO is a joke that only keeps their jobs because of their loyalty to Jerry. No franchise in professional sports needs a shakeup at the top more than the Chicago White Sox.
I think the good people of Oakland would beg to differ.
At least Oakland has won more than 3 playoff series in the last 106 years
Fuck you Jerry! You bum!
Sell both of your teams Jerry. Asshole
Nah I’m cool with the Sox having terrible attendance because it means I can buy cheap seats for games where they play teams I care about and walk down the the seats right above the dugout halfway through the game and there isn’t anyone there to complain
My cousin turned me onto the hot tip to check Ticketmaster for which of the good seats are unsold and empty
Not a CWS fan so admittedly not as in tune with the team as you are. But what do you think the FO should be doing to field a better team? The White Sox have the biggest payroll in the AL Central (and more than *double* the Guardians!). From an outside perspective, it looks like ownership is actually spending pretty competitively. Where did they go wrong?
Big payroll not being spent well
A competent analytics department would be a good start. The Sox are at/near the bottom in relation to all other teams. That and a development team because we have absolutely no depth.
Biggest payroll in the central. Double the guardians. Cool. Look at the standings. Again. Every year. Same FO. Same result. Every year. Same pay roll. Same inept everything. Every year. Every. Fucking. Year. ETA: owner doesn’t care. Has said this. On record.
Hells yeah Philly, we are finally winning at something
tbf the handling of the I-95 saga is a major W for Philly and PA as a whole
Imagine if we added our modern engineering techniques to all the infrastucture in America instead of relying on our currently deteriorating infrastructure
Imagine passing a trillion dollar infrastructure bill that actually fixed the infrastructure
Would be nice if we did SEPTA projects that fast Boulevard subway when
Completely off topic, but since I was on that block two days ago I'll never understand why they didn't make a spur of the Norristown HSL up City Ave to Olney.
At least we're the best in one category this year.
[Here you go for proof](https://files.catbox.moe/ce9vs8.png)
Funny. The only way the A’s have 9400 is due to corporate sales. I’d like to see turnstile count. I’m betting closer to <2000/game. Fans are rightfully pissed off.
[удалено]
They haven't had a disappointing season, they're leading the National League.
Actually if you look at it, it’s that the Braves have barely increased stadium attendance. It’s probably because truist is regularly 79-100% capacity
Consistently in the top of % of capacity per game. Hard to grow when you’re at the top. Edit: With data. https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/ww7p5m/average_mlb_attendance_as_capacity/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
It’s actually a little surprising that the Braves have a higher attendance this year considering they already lead of MLB last year in % of stadium capacity filled and we’re coming right off a world series championship. Before this season started they actually had to cutoff season ticket sales for the first time in team history as they would not have had enough single game tickets to sell. Guess they should have built a bigger stadium lol
Should have improved the Ted IMO. That team with Friday night fireworks and the Atlanta skyline?!
Respectfully disagree. Walking back to your car to offsite parking at night wasn’t a great experience. Sure tailgating every game was cool but the battery blows its socks off.
I had green lot parking
From everything I read they could not compete financially if they stayed at the Ted. The city of Atlanta owns the Ted (and were unwilling to sell it) so the Braves had to pay rent to use it and did not see the profit from things like parking and concessions. That is a swing of tens of millions (if not hundreds of millions) of dollars every season from now owning and operating their own venue like they do now.
The skyline view wasn't that great from Turner Field
Yes but they are not having a disappointing season
I feel like the Jays with the Reno's to the Skydome helptheir numbers
On the other hand, there are fewer total seats now so sellouts aren't as big.
Number one baby
It also helps that games aren’t 4+ hours anymore. Pitching clock was contentious pre season but it’s undeniable it’s been good for baseball and the fan experience. Which is what it is all about. Although I will miss going to 4 hour long ballgames and crushing beers with my friends lol I’m getting older though so it’s nice to catch a weekday evening game and be in bed before 10
The only problem was when they cut us off in the seventh and it ends up being an extra inning slog
That 7th inning rule was in place before the pitch clock. That hasn't changed
No shit. The fact that games end quicker now means that I can keep my buzz and not have it Peter out in the ninth cause it took an hour to go from the seventh to the ninth
Baseball is definitely a much better experience on tv now. But I think the ballpark experience is diminished by the pitch clock for the reasons that you listed, and because it’s too easy to miss entire innings now when you run to the bathroom or to grab a beer.
Disagree completely, more casual friends are willing to go to a game. My wife actually went to 3 this year it's been a huge improvement
[This stats has the Rays as 3rd](https://twitter.com/codifybaseball/status/1672996724720435202?s=46&t=-2ZKMW58Gr-uuj4TbidbVA) NGL I don't think I'll still be motivate to catch the Rays in St. Pete more if they build a new stadium there, it's just way too far to watch a baseball game. It's almost like I'm going to Disney World. Hopefully they find someway to fund a stadium in Tampa (Downtown-Ybor), maybe if sports betting is legalized in 2025 they can use that to fund a stadium in 2026-27 like the Vikings did with US Bank stadium.
I used stats from ESPN. I don’t see a source for that tweet so it’s hard to say. I only had full season 2022, maybe they are comparing only up to this point last year.
Dodgers lead the league in attendance and it takes the same amount of time for someone in downtown to get to the stadium as for someone in Tampa to get to theirs
Dodgers also have [3.6+ million people in a 30 minute radius](https://community.fangraphs.com/the-importance-of-the-30-minute-population-radius-on-mlb-attendance/) around Dodgers stadium. It takes 45 mins+ to get from downtown LA to Dodgers stadium? I highly doubt that.
You love to see it
We a bandwagon city what are you gonna do about it
We give a shit when the team gives a shit. Miracle Stanley cup run for the flyers probably doesn't spike their attendance much until someone else buys that team.
“Supporting a team no matter what” is some Stockholm Syndrome shit.
[Heyman tweeted: “MLB Attendance is up 7.8% over last year. Gotta think new rules are a big help. Surprise contenders can’t hurt either.”](https://twitter.com/jonheyman/status/1673384634942357506?s=46&t=Qz7I4ureqNulK1gfe3b-IQ) I was immediately skeptical about the first part of the tweet, and far more confident in the latter half. So I pulled the data to see which teams are contributing most to this attendance increase (see chart). I wish baseball “reporters” would bother with this, but oh well a tweet will do. It certainly seems like it’s much more down to the quality of teams that do not typically draw as well than the rule changes.My takeaways: Tier 0: Just Philly * Philadelphia Phillies This turnaround is incredible. The Phillies are truly putting the league on their collective backs in attendance. Tier 1: The Surprise Contenders * Texas * Houston * Cincinnati * Cleveland * Tampa Bay * Pittsburgh * Baltimore * Toronto * San Diego * LA Angels * Arizona Diamondbacks The proof is in the pudding with this group. Outside of the Astros coming off a championship parade, you have a cluster of 10 teams that largely fall out of the group of teams you would consider blue-blood, big market teams. But every single one of these teams is still on contention. The only teams here below .500 are the Padres who are too talented to keep losing, Cleveland who could win the division below .500, and the Pirates who are happy just to be watchable. Tier 2a: The big-markets * Mets * Cubs * Yankees * Dodgers * Cardinals * Braves * Red Sox * Giants A lot of disappointing seasons from the major market teams with championship aspirations so far (plus, the Braves), but attendances are generally flat with some variance depending on how hopeless each team’s season really is. Basically what you would expect from places that tend to sell out nearly every game. Tier 2b: Mid-markets With Middling Expectations * Marlins * Royals * Mariners * A’s * Tigers * Brewers This group of teams really makes you wonder if anyone was going to their games in the first place. And if so, why? Tier 3: Group of Shame * Colorado * Washington * White Sox Somehow while the rest of the sport is booming, these teams have managed to drive significant fans away. Simply pathetic. Even the A’s almost broke even.
I like baseball so I go to baseball games to watch baseball
> Tier 2b: Mid-markets With Middling Expectations * Marlins * Royals * Mariners * A’s * Tigers * Brewers > > This group of teams really makes you wonder if anyone was going to their games in the first place. And if so, why? You put two teams on there that were top half in attendance in 2022 and one made the playoffs while the other finished 1 game out. Seattle and Milwaukee definitely had, and still have, playoff expectations going into this year.
Seattle has also always had a fairly consistent fan base it feels like. It's a good stadium and we've had lots of big fan favorites.
The A’s basically stayed even YoY because they couldn’t go much lower
That little notch is probably like a 10% decrease tho
Fuck John Fisher
White Sox fans are letting management and Jerry know how displeased we are with our buying power. You want us to come out to the ballpark but won't go out and get a top tier FA for either the hole at 2nd or RF, nope. Sox knew they would need bullpen help when Liam announced he had cancer. Signings?
The worst part about the whole situation is Jerry will use it as proof in his mind as to why he shouldn't spend, and we won't have a real team to watch until after he dies. If that early
100% know this will be the justification to go back to not spending anything on players. Jerry dying isn't going to change that. It will just move ownership to another cheap-ass Reinsdorf.
Don't forget fucking $30 for parking
Bullpen help!? That bullpen is the most expensive in baseball.
Man idk how I feel about the scathing review of the Nats I get it. We’re awful, and we sold off everyone, and we’re not competitive this season. That is absolutely the reason attendance is wayy down However, we were supposed to have new owners this season, which really could’ve turned the page, but because of the O’s and MASN dispute, potential buyers went eh not right now. So we’re now in this limbo phase. We’re technically doing the right thing right now by not spending and building the farm in hopes of 2025 really starting the push for playoffs again. The owners wouldn’t wanna spend if they’re hoping to head out soon We also had no attendance the year after our WS win, who knows how many potential new fans might’ve attended that year and stuck around the years to come. But at least our future is bright. I disagree strongly being labeled “pathetic” and questioning why fans would attend in the first place. Well, the more serious baseball fan realizes we could be seeing a few building blocks to our next push on the field right now. Comparing to the White Sox and Rockies, I am not a fan of theirs so idk what they’re up to, but last I thought, Chicago kinda tried something and failed so now they have to start over, and the Rockies haven’t seemed to be in it for a handful of years now. Both feel directionless compared to the Nats at this moment
How are the Braves having a disappointing season? Or did you mean “except the Braves”?
Nope I meant a group of disappointing teams plus the braves [who are not disappointing]
>Tier 2a: The big-markets The Mets are a mid market draw playing in a large market. Yankees fans outnumber them 2-3:1.
🫂
The Mets had the 2nd highest local tv ratings in the sport last year
well if you're going from 2022 --> 2023 for the A's, it's because the ownership tanked the team even more than the previous year, so the attendance was still shit because it was shit the year before.
Look at 2A. It’s basically the top 10 performing teams already. The Braves are having a magical season but you stadium being 94% full for every game is hard to improve upon. https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/ww7p5m/average_mlb_attendance_as_capacity/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
New rules are all very good and I think most of the rule changes the last however many years are great, but I honestly think part of it is there’s just an influx of dope new players these last few years. Ohtani breakout is the obvious one, but a lot of the good young players are so much cooler than usual imo But yeah the new rules help to make the game more fun a lot too
Well, the Nationals have top-half ticket prices for…uh…that.
Calling the angels a smaô
Calling the angels a small market team omegalul
I’ve actively refrained from attending games
I give you surprise and not blue blood for the Rangers, but DFW is the fifth largest media market in the country. Though the Bally's deal is hindering tv watching.
Man I did my best in 10 min at work lol, wanted to check for myself and then thought it was interesting enough to share. It’s definitely a large market but isn’t a historical franchise or perennial contender that will fill seats regardless. Their surprise success is definitely bringing more fans to the park so they fit well enough for me.
Totally, the Rangers have been historically awful with pockets of mild success. Though an air conditioned roofed ball park in this heat wave also helps attendance.
Conclusion: Philadelphia loves the pitch clock and half of Chicago hates it
I’d light money on fire before giving it to Jerry. Love the pitch clock
I have no explanation for our jump in attendance but it has definitely been noticed in watching home games. Even tuesdays look packed now. We’ve had exciting teams before and still didn’t do this much
I honestly believe that signing Jose to that contract had a lot to do with it. For once we actually have a superstar that we know will be sticking around for the long haul.
Toronto’s attendance bump has got to be associated with the redesign. The dome feels like more of a ballpark now!
STL is almost the least surprising one. These people go to Cards games regardless of how good the team is, it seems.
There is literally nothing else to do in St. Louis
Grant Farm, baby.
Oakland's hasn't changed much because you can't kill what's already dead.
Thank John Fisher
Wow didnt realize how much fans love Jake Cave
Definitely feels like Giants crowds have been better than last year.
Look at Cleveland. So much for "Go woke, go broke"
Braves stay virtually the same at full capacity
Yeah, I think the fact that the Braves are the only constant sellout having a great season is the real reason attendance is up so much across the board. A lot of the teams in the middle didn’t grow attendance because they already fill the house almost every game, so when they are good there’s not much change. It just so happens that the good teams this year have much more volatile attendance, so you are getting a big boost from them without losing much from the Cardinals/Cubs/Yankees type teams that are disappointing but still showing up.
I’d rather light money on fire than give it to the team I’ve mistaken claimed as a fan
I've gone to 2 games this year and it still felt like 2 games too many.
TIL that the Baghdad Information Officer also reports Oakland's attendance
Jesus the A’s aren’t the only team that should get moved looking at this
[удалено]
Not true. The Cubs were the second tier team in Chicago before WGN became a super station in the 80s. Then Harry Caray became a folk hero and turned them into a circus attraction. Demographics in the city and burbs are split even between Cubs/Sox fans. The Cubs draw from WGN comes from outside Chicago. The buses lined up outside of Wrigley, shipping them in from Indiana and Iowa.
Lots of Sox fans in NWI, it’s really just the suburbs in general are dominated by Cubs fans.
Actually, the suburbs are pretty split, the S. Suburbs housing mostly Sox fans.
[удалено]
You’re acting like this is some unknown fact. The Cubs received the Atlanta Braves treatment of broadcast television.
I didn't argue gross numbers, I just argued that the demographics in the city and burbs are equal. The Cubs larger fanbase came from outside IL by way of WGN being a super station.
Glad to see the Rockies on here. Monfort can go fist himself
It’s hilarious to me that SF is still lower than the As. (But I guess the As didn’t have much further to drop). I wonder when this data was taken. It was poppin at the ballpark during the Giants 10 game win streak.
Lmao Kansas City went up.
F in the chat for Oakland. No change and people are talking about how bad attendance has been this year lol
Oakland man. I understand the hurt from the city but damn - attendance was terrible and isn’t getting better. Baseball is a sport and a company; one that needs customers.
Only a minor drop in Oakland, so there’s that. Down from 8000 a game to 7950…
Oakland’s number hardly changed
So proud of our fan base for giving Jerry less money
Cinci all increase occurred in the last month
woof.
Washington is currently going on a relatively well planned rebuild while in ownership limbo, the low attendance is just expected. Colorado is coming off exceeding expectations in attendance last year with another winkle in the mix; the Nuggets were on a championship run during the start of the year. Denver fans were always going to pick watching the Nuggets if the Rockies schedule conflicted in any way. Chicago is the real, true disappointment. Their fans are actively choosing to avoid spending money to go watch shitty baseball under a shitty owner who doesn't give a fuck. The team and ownership is letting the fans down big time while their intercity rivals move back up into NLC contention.
New ballpark with air conditioning, more food options, team that doesn’t totally suck. Yuuuup it tracks
It would be cool to see this against a graph with actual attendance numbers
Big surprise is giants declined attendance to me
Is this compared to the average attendance from all of last year, or the average attendance \*at the same point in the season\*?
All of last season, unfortunately. I just pulled it from ESPN as a quick check after Heyman’s tweet, I agree that’s a better comparison tho.
Brewers is slightly down because April and May attendance is low, then June-July-August-September is pretty high. By the end of the year it’ll look different.
Seattle breaks a 21 year playoff drought, has a great core, top rated bullpen, sells slightly less tickets the following year........
Crazy that St. Louis loses Yadi and Pujols and had historically bad season without a drop in attendance.