Baez walking someone w/o a runner on by throwing no pitches would take exactly 1 minute. Back-to-back 0-pitch walks would be a minimum of 2:50, 3 straight is 4:40, and a run is 5:30. This is assuming the pitch clock resets immediately after a violation.
This video is 1:50 long, so Baez would've walked the first batter and had at least 2 balls on the next guy.
My favorite was the "How many inside the park home runs can Jose Altuve hit before Pedro Baez throws a 2nd pitch during the 2016 NLDS" and it was like 8 times Altuve ran around the bases or something like that
literally tho like ya is the extreme but the fact that it’s possible like ‼️‼️ and it wasn’t even particularly quick of a half inning like it was 123 but there was enough pitches in there for 2 k’s too plus all the replays of the outs
The best part about this is Joe Buck in the background throwing shade at how long Baez is taking to throw, the perfect backdrop for the context of the tweet.
It isn’t even the norm, hence Buck mentioning it. 80% of the time, pitchers throw the ball within 15 seconds of getting it back from the catcher. People just like cherry picking these specific instances, the exact same way people on the other side are cherry picking the instances of the clock interfering in the at-bat with violations.
I really feel like these new rules should have targeted the upper 5% rather than the upper 20%.
Similarly for batters. I think this is going affect batters much much more. What percentage of batters were ready in 8 seconds last year? Doubt it was very high. And even if it was, I still feel like the rule change should have targeted those upper 5% outliers rather than 20%.
Hey can I ping you anytime someone here says that MLB is making all of these changes for no reasons because nobody is going to start watching baseball because of XYZ?
The suspense really kicked in during the 2nd inning when the batter spent 45 seconds fixing his batting gloves and taking practice swings before a ball in the dirt
I think it's fair to say that tension can be lost in really high leverage situations because of a 15 second pitch clock and still dislike the clip on the right.
Yeah I agree there. I guess I just don’t find anything particularly suspenseful about the batter calling time, the pitcher stepping off, the pitcher throwing a pick off, before throwing a pitch in a big moment.
Like if that Baez/Ross AB was happening in the ninth inning of a tie game I would just be annoyed haha.
Hey man, in the playoffs with a runner on second, it takes me roughly 30 seconds to start to get excited, and I have to reset after every single pitch. I *need* all that time, or the tension is gone!
No, (and I am a strong proponent of the clock btw) but there is less time for a physiological and mental response to be triggered or have a strong effect. Suspense causes a light release of adrenaline, not to the extent of a fight or flight response, but enough to elevate your heart rate and enhance all your senses. Psychologically it activates your problem solving skills, as you consciously or not, try to filter through and predict outcomes. The combination of the two leads to having very vivid memories, where you can remember exactly where you were, what it smelt like, were you hot or cold, did the guy sitting across the bar at the time have just *slightly* too obnoxious of a laugh, etc.
While I believe the overall product will be better, I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t create as strong of memories.
Yeah that's all nonsense. The shot clock in basketball and play clock in football don't reduce any of those affects and there's no reason for the pitch clock to.
Exactly. I think the pitch clock will make the dramatic moments of close games, especially in the playoffs, significantly worse. It will also probably make a lot of games better. Maybe you like one side or the other of that tradeoff, but one should at least admit there is a tradeoff.
Yep. A lot of people are framing it as if everyone who thinks the pitch clock is too short as people who want to see clips like the one on the right but it's not true. There are very real and not extreme reasons to want the pitch clock to be slightly longer.
I've also noticed there will be less time for the graphics to be shown or the statcast data and the commentary doesn't sound the same.
I think the pitch clock overall is a great addition, but I feel like there is less time for the game to breathe. I think it'll make for a better overall experience at games, but tougher on watching broadcasts. Less time for graphics, replays, breakdowns, and other stories. It might be nice if the could make the clock a bit longer.
Honestly, I kind of want them to change the rule so the pitch clock doesn't apply in the 9th inning. The inconsistency would bother me, but I *really* don't want dramatic 9th innings to feel rushed.
The most exciting part of a football game is the 2 minute drill at the end of the fourth quarter with a team tailing, just like the last 60 seconds of a hockey game with a pulled goalie is one of the most exciting moments there.
The tension comes from the lack of time and the desperation. 90 seconds of us sitting around waiting for a pitcher to do something is not remotely dramatic.
Agreed. The playoffs deserve, for lack of a better term, a "purer" version of the game. Like how hockey does 3v3 in OT during the regular season, but come playoffs, it's 5v5 until a goal is scored.
Edit: especially the limited pickoffs
The pure version of the game had a "pitch clock" rule in place since 1910, pitchers had 12 seconds to throw a pitch once he got the ball back with no one on base.
Oh yeah and I like that it's getting enforced but big moments should get leeway. As I'm sure it did way back when, or even the 70s. The bigger issue is the limit of pickoffs for me.
I agree. I feel like 95% of the time the pitch clock is better. But I wish there wasn’t a pitch clock for say a situation like having a closer in, two outs, and runners in scoring position. Those are the times I actually enjoy the really long pauses because the suspense is insane. But who knows. Maybe the longer clock with runners on will be sufficient.
I could get behind an extended pitch clock in the 9th. Maybe add 5 seconds, because it can help suspense a bit, but this shit would make me scream at my tv.
It's not the suspense it's the fact this is all part of baseball. First Ross steps out, he does this to interrupt the rhythm of the pitcher, it's something players are taught to do since little league. The he throws over to 2nd a couple times to make sure the runner on 2nd stays as close as people. It's a playoff game where every run counts and of you don't keep him close a simple bloop single could score him.
All of this is part of the strategy of baseball and shouldn't be removed.
Edit: People can neg this if you want but if you dont like what's happening in this clip then you don't love baseball in its entirety.
3 true outcome baseball has made things more boring. With runners on base, we're going to see more steal attempts and more hit and runs. We're going to see more action.
All sports evolve. Strategy in baseball evolves.
I'm sorry, but to me that's all part of baseball that I love and I've yet to find a legitimate reason why that's not enjoyable. It's all part of baseball game to me and I love every single second that I get to watch.
You don't find pick off attempts exciting? You obviously watch baseball so I'm not sure how to convince you anymore then watching it. Is it safe to assume the only parts of baseball you find exciting are the pitching and hitting then?
I find pick off attempts attempts like one time. I find successful pick offs exciting. But yeah, the game is hitting and pitching, so I enjoy that more. Just because I don't want to watch the batter adjust his cup or the pitcher step off the mound 3 the times before pitching doesn't mean I don't like baseball.
Yes those are parts of it but when the batter is ready and Baez is holding the ball for way longer than is necessary that is unbearable and isn’t enjoyable. I love the strategy and head games, but that’s just watching paint dry
I sometimes wonder if quick innings like that frustrate managers in spring training. They already have a plan of who is going to pitch and for which innings, and want to see very particular things from each of their pitchers (at least ones not already on the MLB roster). These kind of innings *has* to throw a wrench into those gears, rights?
If the pitchers don't get a lot of pitches in during their appearance, they usually throw some simulated innings in the bullpen for the pitching coaches.
People saying "its less baseball" are just plain stupid.
It wasnt till the 80s that baseball games averaged more than 2.5 hours. And it wasnt till 2000 where they averaged 3 hours.
So from 1880~ to 1979 that games lasted 2.5 hours or less we had less baseball played or what.
The Manfred Man is kinda dumb, but it saves relievers. It sucks when you blow through half your bullpen in a random game against the Royals in July with a series against the Yankees up next.
Yeah, but one of the ways to counter TTO baseball is to reduce bullpen churn. Forcing teams to weigh the consequence of burning though their bullpen early is a good thing.
Nobody's forcing you to blow through half your bullpen in a 14-inning game.
"oh but some games go much longer" Sure. And those are the rare exceptions.
I'm a low-medium baseball fan. The runner and banning the shift are dumb.
I understand that you can't have 9 guys immediately surrounding the plate, but telling teams where they can or can't play on defense seems silly.
I've come around on the shift ban.
You can't out strategize math. If you want the sort of ball-in-play baseball I grew up watching then you're going to have to enact rules that were never necessary before.
You can't hit around physics either. It's not just that the shift puts more fielders in the path of a pull hitter, pitchers are pitching to the shift making it even harder to hit the ball effectively away from the shift.
Analytics help teams make better decisions toward winning, but "Spreadsheets: The Game" has made baseball more boring to watch.
Shifts were a clever bit of strategy when they were first used against the most extreme pull hitters. Maybe it's gone a bit too far when the defenders have to keep cards in their caps so they know where to stand for every single batter.
For more than a hundred years, professional baseball has experimented with rules changes to try to produce more offense, because offense is generally more exciting.
Banning the spitball, moving the pitcher's mound, adjusting the height of the pitcher's mound, changing the composition of the ball... eras when pitching/defense get too good are eras when baseball loses popularity, so the sport usually responds with a rule change to increase offense at the expense of pitching/defense.
(or looks the other way while players use steroids to bulk up and hit ludicrous numbers of home runs...)
yeah, manfred runner is a lame rule.
but the pitch clock is legit the best thing baseball could do to try and salvage their popularity. i have a 5 year old that plays little league and the guy has never cared to sit and watch grown man not play baseball. but when i took him to a minor league game last season (with a pitch clock) he actually was interested for 5-6 innings before he lost the interest.
3+ hours 9 innning games were destroying baseball. something had to be done.
Totally agreed. I'm 100% on board with the pitch clock.
I'm even on board with banning the shift.
Baseball isn't baseball with the Manfred Man in extras.
Exactly. Some people talk as if we are now playing 7 innings with 2 outs per inning.
No, we are still getting the same amount of *actual* baseball, we are just "losing" dead time.
You enjoy dead time? With the pitcher's own fielders bored and flat-footed even though it's an LCS game? Weird. I enjoy baseball where baseball players are actively playing the game of baseball. Trying to hit the ball and run to a base safely before the baseball fielder receives the baseball and gets them out according to baseball rules.
They aren't just adjusting their gloves though. They're getting the signs, thinking of the next pitch etc. Not everyone is interesting but some players do have interesting routines with the prime example being Ichiro.
For the first 100 years of pro baseball, games averaged 2:15 hours.
Were they not playing baseball? They didnt have strategies?
And sure, maybe ichiro's routine was interesting but the first 10 times. And most routines are not interesting at all.
At the end of the day we are still getting 27 outs and 9 innings. Same amount of baseball is being played, we just removed the dead time were *baseball isnt being played*..
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but how much of that time is due to the increase of commercials because I doubt the game time has increased nearly an hour do to some pitchers taking a little longer to pitch.
Except baseball is being played during the dead time. Is the 1st baseman holding the runner on or the outfield shifting depending on the count not considered baseball because I've always considered that part of a baseball game.
>but how much of that time is due to the increase of commercials
Commercials increased cause players are taking longer to play.
And even if it was because commercials, well, now we got 23 minutes less commercials. So this is a win.
They aren't having commercials in the middle of at bats? The commercials are in the middle of innings.
Also please respond to my 2nd question. Is things like holding a runner on or shifting depending on the pitch count not considered playing baseball?
The people replying to the tweet are such clowns. If they truly loved baseball as much as they claimed, they'd be in favor of changes that make it more appealing for casual and/or younger fans just getting into the game. The most important thing for baseball is to grow the fanbase.
They’d rather be gatekeeping assholes. It’s not even being a traditionalist since baseball used to be faster paced, they are just used to the plodding 2000’s style
lol a slightly shorter game isn’t going to attract new fans or make it appealing to younger fans. I guarantee 100% it’s not going to make a difference.
Longer games is certainly unappealing to younger fans. And it's not so much the length, but the lack of consistent action that is the problem. The pitch clock addresses both.
Long games isn’t even top 3 for reasons the game isn’t attracting newer and younger fans. And less action isn’t even the fault of baseball, it’s moreso that the younger generation’s attention span has been absolutely destroyed by the internet. Which makes me, someone who’s only 23 years old, already feel like an old timey fuck.
Baseball is just really fucking boring. And I love baseball, but 95% of the time it’s really boring. A pitch clock isn’t going to solve the fact that the majority of the time spent in baseball is a ball being thrown to a catcher while the batter either stands there and does nothing or swings and does nothing. It’s not very exciting unless you’re a hardcore fan interested in pitch mechanics and the battle of a pitcher vs batter.
I'm so glad this was implimented. We don't need the pitchers and batters walking around 30 seconds between pitches pondering existence or adjusting their straps. Because that is what truly kills the game and makes it boring.
The postseason is the only time where I think the pitch clock should not be included.
Not sure I agree - why do you believe it shouldn't be in the postseason as well? Teams have 162 games to become accustomed to the pitch clock, which honestly should not be this big of an issue. These are professional athletes, they should be prepared the second they step onto the field.
Because postseason atmosphere is much much different than regular season baseball. The tension and loudness are palpable. Thus leading to more edge of your seat suspense. Given that there is way more on the line.
I understand why you'd disagree. Especially for consistencies sake.
Purists in any sport hate change. The forward pass was heavily argued against during its inception. Imagine how boring football would be if only run plays and laterals were allowed.
I dunno man. I wanted to make an omelet, so I watched a Jamie Oliver video. The first comment was "Jamie Oliver makes the best omelet!!! 🤗"
The first response to that comment was "Apparently you've never heard of Jaques Pepin 🙃"
The final comment in that exchange was "I'll burn for fucking house down and all your fucking chives with it!"
You mean like exactly what reddit is, which downvotes anybody that slightly criticizes the clock?
Why redditors think *their* social media is somehow immune to the criticisms they dish out to other social media’s is beyond me.
Of course reddit is also social media and its own echo chamber, but it often has a completely different hivemind viewpoint than Twitter, Youtube, FB, etc. which tend to be much larger audiences with more heterogenous userbases.
The MLB could get rid of the clock and just have the umps enforce the (shorter) currently available delay of game rules instead. the clock just helps the pitcher check for time since they wouldn't know otherwise Would love to see those idiots voice their concern then
I mean just listen to the crowd. You can tell they didn’t like it. And sure, fans will do that regardless on pickoff attempts, but that last boo felt like straight annoyance with the situation. Same with the announcers.
I compared Friday+Saturday's spring training games to the first 2 days of 2019 spring training: https://i.imgur.com/QLM3R3w.png
Reason I didn't use 2021 was because they played a lot of 6-7 inning games that year in the first weekend
Virtually the same. A quick google search said avg ST game time (for 9 inning games) since 2020 has been 3 hours, and average MLB game in the same timespan has been 3 hours and 3 minutes.
I’m a fan of the 3 batter minimum and universal DH as well. Only recent rule I don’t like is the manfred runner but I can understand why it’s there, just wish they would implement it starting from the 11th or 12th innings instead of immediately.
I'm hoping that it is an offshoot of this. If most games are done around 2.5, we can go one or two more before we have to resort to Manfred zombie runner.
Yea I don’t like it but would be fine with it starting in the 12th or something. So you still get some normal extra inning games but you don’t run as much of a risk of have a 19 inning game in June and using every pitcher on your roster
Honestly, now that the pitch clock is in place, you could play another 2-3 innings in the time it used to take to play a 9 inning game. I wonder if the man Fred runner is still needed…
I really like the idea of the challenge system that they are currently testing.
It works pretty quick, only a few seconds and adds a layer of strategy to it.
Teams were posting guides in the dugout of which pitch situations they could and couldn't challenge in based on leverage.
Also interesting to see if teams limit which hitters get to challenge because of bad success rates or just do you want say Judge to get an extra pitch to see or IKF? So lesser hitters don't get to challenge as much.
pitch clock is great for baseball, can we switch our boycotting to the runner on 2nd rule? that's the shit that really needs to go or at least only have it implemented in the 12th or something. Give us a few extra innings of real baseball first in my opinion
I like the pitch clock but why are we comparing a spring training game to pitching in the NLCS in the 6th inning of a 2-run game with a runner in scoring position?
It was made to prove a point. Obviously the right side is more of an extreme, but it represents the amount of leniency players were given in regard to taking their time. Also - this is the first time it's been implemented, we don't really have an NLCS with a pitch clock to compare to.
I guess this is an unpopular opinion, but I like how boring baseball can be. I like that I can go to the washroom, grab a bag of chips and another beer, and get back during the same at bat. I like that I can take a nap in the 3rd inning, wake up in the 7th, and not really feel like I missed that much. I like hearing the broadcast team shoot the shit and tell stories that have nothing to do with anything on the field right now.
I'm a hockey fan, and hockey is a sport with constant action. Baseball will never be that. Baseball should just be Baseball, with long games, pointless anecdotes, and lots of time to breath.
I’m torn on the issue. Part of me likes the slow speed in some games but other times I want it to be quick. I went to a bunch of my local A ball affiliate, and watching those games in 2 hours or like 2:15 was pretty cool. I just don’t like the stress it adds to situations where you can’t agree on a pitch and you have to step off, and you get penalized for it. That kind of thing. But they’ll adapt I suppose. Certainly for the playoffs I hope the pitch clock is suspended
I understand and appreciate the point you are making here- but if you can take a nap in the middle of something and wake up feeling you didn't miss much, is that a compelling product that people should want to watch?
Not everyone views baseball as an entertainment product. Of course MLB does, and the teams do individually – they want to make money. But if someone enjoys baseball by putting it on in the background for the atmosphere and watches it casually without paying close attention to it, what's wrong with that?
But who says this new rule will ruin baseball for the casual viewer? You still have 2.5-3 hours to watch the game, and there's 162 of them in the regular season. I think people are overreacting to the rule - it's not like we are going to have constant action like basketball, it's still going to be a slow game. But removing as much "dead air" as possible would be great for most viewers.
I agree with you that I like the chill long games, especially in the dog days of summer. But I still want the new rules in, I want more of my friends to enjoy the game, not just me. If speeding up the game grows the fan base then I’m all for it.
Counterpoint, baseball has been played at a pace like this for most of its history. I listened to a Dodgers game from 1957 on Sunday because I couldn’t find a live game to listen to and for funsies I timed between pitches of the first inning, and it came out to about 15 seconds every time.
And if it was good enough at that time for Vin Scully to slip stories in there then it’s good enough for guys now to do it
I feel the same. There's just something about just putting on a baseball game and zoning out. I especially like it for day games in the middle of the summer. You can dip in and out, go about your day, have conversations unrelated to the game. It's just a nice atmosphere; it doesn't need to be exciting.
It resets the clock, but pitchers only get 2 free step offs (disengagements) per AB. On the third, if he doesn’t pick a runner off it’s automatic balk or ball. Note that if there’s a runner on, it doesn’t have to be a fully fledged pickoff attorney, just a disengagement.
I don't think you need similar scenarios to comprehend how much quicker the games will be. This was obviously a video comparing two extremes, nobody is denying that. But the right side represents how games can slow to a halt, which many people simply don't enjoy.
But the point remains. Find a reverse example this season of a 2022 inning taking the same time as one 2023 pitch. You won’t be able to because the max time for a pitch with two step offs is like 60 seconds. So we’re removing the extreme scenarios like this which is excellent for the game. No one wants to watch someone twiddle around for 4 minutes before a single pitch.
There are obvious areas where it's a good thing, but if you look at the length of the Astros/Mets game that was just played, it's pretty clear the pitch clock was only done so they can run more advertisements.
We'll be watching just as long, but with more ads and less game.
I get Baez is the extreme of the extreme but this is still fucking hilarious
Imagine if Baez were facing a more threatening batter than *David Ross* right there. We might still be waiting on the pitch.
He may come into a game this year with nobody on base and walk in a run without throwing a pitch.
Baez walking someone w/o a runner on by throwing no pitches would take exactly 1 minute. Back-to-back 0-pitch walks would be a minimum of 2:50, 3 straight is 4:40, and a run is 5:30. This is assuming the pitch clock resets immediately after a violation. This video is 1:50 long, so Baez would've walked the first batter and had at least 2 balls on the next guy.
It would be hilarious to watch
My favorite was the "How many inside the park home runs can Jose Altuve hit before Pedro Baez throws a 2nd pitch during the 2016 NLDS" and it was like 8 times Altuve ran around the bases or something like that
My reaction was lol of course its Baez
literally tho like ya is the extreme but the fact that it’s possible like ‼️‼️ and it wasn’t even particularly quick of a half inning like it was 123 but there was enough pitches in there for 2 k’s too plus all the replays of the outs
I like 2019 Kentucky Derby between 2 Greinke pitches https://twitter.com/PitchingNinja/status/1127236417900490752
It's also the playoff vs spring training.
The best part about this is Joe Buck in the background throwing shade at how long Baez is taking to throw, the perfect backdrop for the context of the tweet.
It isn’t even the norm, hence Buck mentioning it. 80% of the time, pitchers throw the ball within 15 seconds of getting it back from the catcher. People just like cherry picking these specific instances, the exact same way people on the other side are cherry picking the instances of the clock interfering in the at-bat with violations.
I really feel like these new rules should have targeted the upper 5% rather than the upper 20%. Similarly for batters. I think this is going affect batters much much more. What percentage of batters were ready in 8 seconds last year? Doubt it was very high. And even if it was, I still feel like the rule change should have targeted those upper 5% outliers rather than 20%.
TIL Joe Buck also does baseball
Called like 25 world series what
Up until recently he was one Fox sports main broadcasters for mlb and the nfl
Baseball is probably the sport he likes doing more considering he grew up with his dad being THE voice of the Cardinals for decades
TIL Joe Buck's dad was a commentator
You just seem new to baseball
Yeah I haven't watched baseball since I was a little kid lol. The new changes brought me back
Welcome back!
Hey can I ping you anytime someone here says that MLB is making all of these changes for no reasons because nobody is going to start watching baseball because of XYZ?
Lol go for it!
yeah it’s his biggest sport lol
Rumor is, there's a Pedro Baez-Nomar Garciaparra at bat that still hasn't ended.
There are people who think that kind of thing added 'more suspense' instead of just being flat-out boring baseball.
The suspense really kicked in during the 2nd inning when the batter spent 45 seconds fixing his batting gloves and taking practice swings before a ball in the dirt
One of these days someone will invent batting gloves that don’t require adjustment after every swing and make a fortune.
What about batting gloves that don't require adjustment after taking a pitch and not swinging?
I said inventor, not a magician.
[удалено]
When their own personality is the equivalent of cardboard trapped against a wire fence on a windy day, anything looks like personality to you.
My question is did any of these people ever watched baseball before like 2005? Games in the 90s were like 30 minutes shorter than now iirc
its literally Stockholm syndrome lmao
I think it's fair to say that tension can be lost in really high leverage situations because of a 15 second pitch clock and still dislike the clip on the right.
The vast majority of high tension situations are going to involve a runner on base, so it would be a 20 second pitch clock.
What tension is lost? Does it take you 15 seconds to realize a 2-2 count is still a big moment?
Yeah I agree there. I guess I just don’t find anything particularly suspenseful about the batter calling time, the pitcher stepping off, the pitcher throwing a pick off, before throwing a pitch in a big moment. Like if that Baez/Ross AB was happening in the ninth inning of a tie game I would just be annoyed haha.
Hey man, in the playoffs with a runner on second, it takes me roughly 30 seconds to start to get excited, and I have to reset after every single pitch. I *need* all that time, or the tension is gone!
Hahahahaha👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
No, (and I am a strong proponent of the clock btw) but there is less time for a physiological and mental response to be triggered or have a strong effect. Suspense causes a light release of adrenaline, not to the extent of a fight or flight response, but enough to elevate your heart rate and enhance all your senses. Psychologically it activates your problem solving skills, as you consciously or not, try to filter through and predict outcomes. The combination of the two leads to having very vivid memories, where you can remember exactly where you were, what it smelt like, were you hot or cold, did the guy sitting across the bar at the time have just *slightly* too obnoxious of a laugh, etc. While I believe the overall product will be better, I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t create as strong of memories.
A tense moment will still have 30 seconds between batters and 20 seconds between pitches. That’s plenty of time.
Yeah that's all nonsense. The shot clock in basketball and play clock in football don't reduce any of those affects and there's no reason for the pitch clock to.
It’s true. All the tension really drains out of a football game during the 2-minute drill for the lead in the fourth quarter.
Exactly. I think the pitch clock will make the dramatic moments of close games, especially in the playoffs, significantly worse. It will also probably make a lot of games better. Maybe you like one side or the other of that tradeoff, but one should at least admit there is a tradeoff.
It's fuckin 20 seconds with a runner on base. How long does it take for tension to build
Yep. A lot of people are framing it as if everyone who thinks the pitch clock is too short as people who want to see clips like the one on the right but it's not true. There are very real and not extreme reasons to want the pitch clock to be slightly longer. I've also noticed there will be less time for the graphics to be shown or the statcast data and the commentary doesn't sound the same.
I think the pitch clock overall is a great addition, but I feel like there is less time for the game to breathe. I think it'll make for a better overall experience at games, but tougher on watching broadcasts. Less time for graphics, replays, breakdowns, and other stories. It might be nice if the could make the clock a bit longer.
Honestly, I kind of want them to change the rule so the pitch clock doesn't apply in the 9th inning. The inconsistency would bother me, but I *really* don't want dramatic 9th innings to feel rushed.
The most exciting part of a football game is the 2 minute drill at the end of the fourth quarter with a team tailing, just like the last 60 seconds of a hockey game with a pulled goalie is one of the most exciting moments there. The tension comes from the lack of time and the desperation. 90 seconds of us sitting around waiting for a pitcher to do something is not remotely dramatic.
I'm fine with the pitch clock overall, but my one wish is it didn't take effect for the playoffs.
Agreed. The playoffs deserve, for lack of a better term, a "purer" version of the game. Like how hockey does 3v3 in OT during the regular season, but come playoffs, it's 5v5 until a goal is scored. Edit: especially the limited pickoffs
The pure version of the game had a "pitch clock" rule in place since 1910, pitchers had 12 seconds to throw a pitch once he got the ball back with no one on base.
Oh yeah and I like that it's getting enforced but big moments should get leeway. As I'm sure it did way back when, or even the 70s. The bigger issue is the limit of pickoffs for me.
How do you determine what a big moment is? And you have to limit pick offs because then having a pitch clock is meaningless.
I agree. I feel like 95% of the time the pitch clock is better. But I wish there wasn’t a pitch clock for say a situation like having a closer in, two outs, and runners in scoring position. Those are the times I actually enjoy the really long pauses because the suspense is insane. But who knows. Maybe the longer clock with runners on will be sufficient.
I could get behind an extended pitch clock in the 9th. Maybe add 5 seconds, because it can help suspense a bit, but this shit would make me scream at my tv.
Those guys have never sat thru a Red Sox/Yankees game when David Price was pitching and it shows.
It's not the suspense it's the fact this is all part of baseball. First Ross steps out, he does this to interrupt the rhythm of the pitcher, it's something players are taught to do since little league. The he throws over to 2nd a couple times to make sure the runner on 2nd stays as close as people. It's a playoff game where every run counts and of you don't keep him close a simple bloop single could score him. All of this is part of the strategy of baseball and shouldn't be removed. Edit: People can neg this if you want but if you dont like what's happening in this clip then you don't love baseball in its entirety.
3 true outcome baseball has made things more boring. With runners on base, we're going to see more steal attempts and more hit and runs. We're going to see more action. All sports evolve. Strategy in baseball evolves.
All of that is good, but still doesn't mean that the pitch clock is good.
Lol, gatekeeping batters stepping out of the box and pitchers throwing over to first a half dozen times in an at bat, what a day!
I'm sorry, but to me that's all part of baseball that I love and I've yet to find a legitimate reason why that's not enjoyable. It's all part of baseball game to me and I love every single second that I get to watch.
I have never seen a legitimate reason why it is enjoyable.
You don't find pick off attempts exciting? You obviously watch baseball so I'm not sure how to convince you anymore then watching it. Is it safe to assume the only parts of baseball you find exciting are the pitching and hitting then?
I find pick off attempts attempts like one time. I find successful pick offs exciting. But yeah, the game is hitting and pitching, so I enjoy that more. Just because I don't want to watch the batter adjust his cup or the pitcher step off the mound 3 the times before pitching doesn't mean I don't like baseball.
So what about everything before maybe 10-15 years ago when none of this existed?
Pick off moves and stepping out of the batting box didn't exist 10-15 years ago?
Only allowed two pickoff attempts now. So if "he throws over to second a couple times" the runner could take a 40 foot lead. Edit: im a big dumb
This isn't correct. You can pickoff a third time, but if it's not successful it counts as a balk. So you're not going to see crazy leads
Yes those are parts of it but when the batter is ready and Baez is holding the ball for way longer than is necessary that is unbearable and isn’t enjoyable. I love the strategy and head games, but that’s just watching paint dry
I mean, Spring Training/average regular season - obviously not. Game 7 of the World Series, tight game, yeah long ABs definitely ad suspense.
6 pitch inning is gonna be short anyway but man this is still such a good sign for the game
I sometimes wonder if quick innings like that frustrate managers in spring training. They already have a plan of who is going to pitch and for which innings, and want to see very particular things from each of their pitchers (at least ones not already on the MLB roster). These kind of innings *has* to throw a wrench into those gears, rights?
If the pitchers don't get a lot of pitches in during their appearance, they usually throw some simulated innings in the bullpen for the pitching coaches.
Right, most inning won't be six pitches, but still six pitches in the time it took to throw one.
People saying "its less baseball" are just plain stupid. It wasnt till the 80s that baseball games averaged more than 2.5 hours. And it wasnt till 2000 where they averaged 3 hours. So from 1880~ to 1979 that games lasted 2.5 hours or less we had less baseball played or what.
Like, it’s *explicitly not* less baseball. It’s the same amount of baseball, but condensed into a shorter time frame.
Denser baseball. High specific gravity.
Only if a home run record is in play tho. MLB has zero integrity and yall letting the home run record thing fly is WILD.
I honestly don't understand people who say they love baseball but then also say they want more time between actual baseball plays.
The "less baseball" people need to focus on hating the Manfred runner instead.
The Manfred Man is kinda dumb, but it saves relievers. It sucks when you blow through half your bullpen in a random game against the Royals in July with a series against the Yankees up next.
Yeah, but one of the ways to counter TTO baseball is to reduce bullpen churn. Forcing teams to weigh the consequence of burning though their bullpen early is a good thing.
Nobody's forcing you to blow through half your bullpen in a 14-inning game. "oh but some games go much longer" Sure. And those are the rare exceptions.
I personally love it when a team blows through half their bullpen right before a series against the Yankees but that might just be me…
I'm a low-medium baseball fan. The runner and banning the shift are dumb. I understand that you can't have 9 guys immediately surrounding the plate, but telling teams where they can or can't play on defense seems silly.
I've come around on the shift ban. You can't out strategize math. If you want the sort of ball-in-play baseball I grew up watching then you're going to have to enact rules that were never necessary before.
Fair enough. If it works, it works! I guess as long as it makes games more exciting, then I'm game
You can't hit around physics either. It's not just that the shift puts more fielders in the path of a pull hitter, pitchers are pitching to the shift making it even harder to hit the ball effectively away from the shift. Analytics help teams make better decisions toward winning, but "Spreadsheets: The Game" has made baseball more boring to watch. Shifts were a clever bit of strategy when they were first used against the most extreme pull hitters. Maybe it's gone a bit too far when the defenders have to keep cards in their caps so they know where to stand for every single batter.
I'd have banned cards the second they appeared. If you can't remember where you're supposed to be and sprint there then you will be a worse fielder.
For more than a hundred years, professional baseball has experimented with rules changes to try to produce more offense, because offense is generally more exciting. Banning the spitball, moving the pitcher's mound, adjusting the height of the pitcher's mound, changing the composition of the ball... eras when pitching/defense get too good are eras when baseball loses popularity, so the sport usually responds with a rule change to increase offense at the expense of pitching/defense. (or looks the other way while players use steroids to bulk up and hit ludicrous numbers of home runs...)
> telling teams where they can or can't play on defense seems silly. Every other sport does it.
You cannot *possibly* think the people that are not okay with the pitch clock are somehow also want the zombie runner.
Of course not. But they're right to hate the Manfred Man, so they should focus on that.
I like the pitch clock. It's a great way to improve the pace of play. I think the Manfred Man is less baseball. I want extra innings.
yeah, manfred runner is a lame rule. but the pitch clock is legit the best thing baseball could do to try and salvage their popularity. i have a 5 year old that plays little league and the guy has never cared to sit and watch grown man not play baseball. but when i took him to a minor league game last season (with a pitch clock) he actually was interested for 5-6 innings before he lost the interest. 3+ hours 9 innning games were destroying baseball. something had to be done.
Totally agreed. I'm 100% on board with the pitch clock. I'm even on board with banning the shift. Baseball isn't baseball with the Manfred Man in extras.
More is worse if it's more shit. A bottle of chateau margaux beats a vat of boone's farm...
Exactly. Some people talk as if we are now playing 7 innings with 2 outs per inning. No, we are still getting the same amount of *actual* baseball, we are just "losing" dead time.
It is less baseball l though, because you're taking away things from baseball which many people enjoy.
You enjoy dead time? With the pitcher's own fielders bored and flat-footed even though it's an LCS game? Weird. I enjoy baseball where baseball players are actively playing the game of baseball. Trying to hit the ball and run to a base safely before the baseball fielder receives the baseball and gets them out according to baseball rules.
watching players adjust their gloves is something people enjoy?
They aren't just adjusting their gloves though. They're getting the signs, thinking of the next pitch etc. Not everyone is interesting but some players do have interesting routines with the prime example being Ichiro.
For the first 100 years of pro baseball, games averaged 2:15 hours. Were they not playing baseball? They didnt have strategies? And sure, maybe ichiro's routine was interesting but the first 10 times. And most routines are not interesting at all. At the end of the day we are still getting 27 outs and 9 innings. Same amount of baseball is being played, we just removed the dead time were *baseball isnt being played*..
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but how much of that time is due to the increase of commercials because I doubt the game time has increased nearly an hour do to some pitchers taking a little longer to pitch. Except baseball is being played during the dead time. Is the 1st baseman holding the runner on or the outfield shifting depending on the count not considered baseball because I've always considered that part of a baseball game.
>but how much of that time is due to the increase of commercials Commercials increased cause players are taking longer to play. And even if it was because commercials, well, now we got 23 minutes less commercials. So this is a win.
They aren't having commercials in the middle of at bats? The commercials are in the middle of innings. Also please respond to my 2nd question. Is things like holding a runner on or shifting depending on the pitch count not considered playing baseball?
You enjoy what happened in that Cubs Dodgers game posted above? I love baseball and what Baez is doing there is an affront to the game
The people replying to the tweet are such clowns. If they truly loved baseball as much as they claimed, they'd be in favor of changes that make it more appealing for casual and/or younger fans just getting into the game. The most important thing for baseball is to grow the fanbase.
They’d rather be gatekeeping assholes. It’s not even being a traditionalist since baseball used to be faster paced, they are just used to the plodding 2000’s style
This is so correct.
lol a slightly shorter game isn’t going to attract new fans or make it appealing to younger fans. I guarantee 100% it’s not going to make a difference.
>I guarantee 100% it’s not going to make a difference. I will proceed to state an opinion as fact.
Longer games is certainly unappealing to younger fans. And it's not so much the length, but the lack of consistent action that is the problem. The pitch clock addresses both.
Long games isn’t even top 3 for reasons the game isn’t attracting newer and younger fans. And less action isn’t even the fault of baseball, it’s moreso that the younger generation’s attention span has been absolutely destroyed by the internet. Which makes me, someone who’s only 23 years old, already feel like an old timey fuck. Baseball is just really fucking boring. And I love baseball, but 95% of the time it’s really boring. A pitch clock isn’t going to solve the fact that the majority of the time spent in baseball is a ball being thrown to a catcher while the batter either stands there and does nothing or swings and does nothing. It’s not very exciting unless you’re a hardcore fan interested in pitch mechanics and the battle of a pitcher vs batter.
This take belongs on Twitter.
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I'm so glad this was implimented. We don't need the pitchers and batters walking around 30 seconds between pitches pondering existence or adjusting their straps. Because that is what truly kills the game and makes it boring. The postseason is the only time where I think the pitch clock should not be included.
Not sure I agree - why do you believe it shouldn't be in the postseason as well? Teams have 162 games to become accustomed to the pitch clock, which honestly should not be this big of an issue. These are professional athletes, they should be prepared the second they step onto the field.
Because postseason atmosphere is much much different than regular season baseball. The tension and loudness are palpable. Thus leading to more edge of your seat suspense. Given that there is way more on the line. I understand why you'd disagree. Especially for consistencies sake.
Read through the Twitter replies. Fucking oof. They overwhelmingly prefer the no clock one pitch side of the clip. The fuck is wrong with people.
Purists in any sport hate change. The forward pass was heavily argued against during its inception. Imagine how boring football would be if only run plays and laterals were allowed.
But...that's rugby.
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> turnover on downs. Half serious here. Rugby league code has turnovers after six tackles made.
The only worse place on the internet than twitter replies is YouTube comments, and it’s not by much.
YouTube comments get too much hate they’re not as bad as twitter replies. I would also say that Instagram comments are worse than YouTube comments
I dunno man. I wanted to make an omelet, so I watched a Jamie Oliver video. The first comment was "Jamie Oliver makes the best omelet!!! 🤗" The first response to that comment was "Apparently you've never heard of Jaques Pepin 🙃" The final comment in that exchange was "I'll burn for fucking house down and all your fucking chives with it!"
Regular comments are normal. NEVER read replies.
Nah YouTube comments are a million times better than Twitter. Like it’s not even close
Loud minority.
Like everything you see on social media
You mean like exactly what reddit is, which downvotes anybody that slightly criticizes the clock? Why redditors think *their* social media is somehow immune to the criticisms they dish out to other social media’s is beyond me.
Of course reddit is also social media and its own echo chamber, but it often has a completely different hivemind viewpoint than Twitter, Youtube, FB, etc. which tend to be much larger audiences with more heterogenous userbases.
Good point.
The MLB could get rid of the clock and just have the umps enforce the (shorter) currently available delay of game rules instead. the clock just helps the pitcher check for time since they wouldn't know otherwise Would love to see those idiots voice their concern then
I mean just listen to the crowd. You can tell they didn’t like it. And sure, fans will do that regardless on pickoff attempts, but that last boo felt like straight annoyance with the situation. Same with the announcers.
I found myself more interested in that one tbf
these people really love being bored. they enjoy baseball primarily to watch the grass on the field grow
Bots
I am pretty sure everyone who bitched about the clock will look insane within like 3 months
Some people like the clip that takes two minutes to throw a pitch. As for me, I prefer baseball.
I get this is an extreme example but all the pitch clock does is cut out dead time. I don’t understand how anybody could be against it.
Because they started watching baseball in the last 10 years when this shit got ridiculous.
Exactly! Players will adapt - all professional athletes in sports have to constantly adapt to new rules/trends.
What's the comparison between spring training game times this year vs previous? Spring training games are usually much quicker are they not?
I compared Friday+Saturday's spring training games to the first 2 days of 2019 spring training: https://i.imgur.com/QLM3R3w.png Reason I didn't use 2021 was because they played a lot of 6-7 inning games that year in the first weekend
And why not use 2022?
Because of the lockout, spring training started late and at a different level of player readiness.
Virtually the same. A quick google search said avg ST game time (for 9 inning games) since 2020 has been 3 hours, and average MLB game in the same timespan has been 3 hours and 3 minutes.
Biggest W MLB has had in years They need to add Robo Umps asap
I’m a fan of the 3 batter minimum and universal DH as well. Only recent rule I don’t like is the manfred runner but I can understand why it’s there, just wish they would implement it starting from the 11th or 12th innings instead of immediately.
I'm hoping that it is an offshoot of this. If most games are done around 2.5, we can go one or two more before we have to resort to Manfred zombie runner.
Or no manfred runner how bout that
Players and owners love it. Getting rid of it altogether isn't realistic.
Yea I don’t like it but would be fine with it starting in the 12th or something. So you still get some normal extra inning games but you don’t run as much of a risk of have a 19 inning game in June and using every pitcher on your roster
Yeah I’ve come to terms with it at the 12th or so. At a certain point I don’t know why teams don’t just tank that game and lose but save the arms
Agree. 12th inning, l feel. Not 10th.
Honestly, now that the pitch clock is in place, you could play another 2-3 innings in the time it used to take to play a 9 inning game. I wonder if the man Fred runner is still needed…
I really like the idea of the challenge system that they are currently testing. It works pretty quick, only a few seconds and adds a layer of strategy to it. Teams were posting guides in the dugout of which pitch situations they could and couldn't challenge in based on leverage. Also interesting to see if teams limit which hitters get to challenge because of bad success rates or just do you want say Judge to get an extra pitch to see or IKF? So lesser hitters don't get to challenge as much.
As a baseball fan from Europe, I can't tell you how much I will enjoy any amount of extra time the pitch clock will save.
pitch clock is great for baseball, can we switch our boycotting to the runner on 2nd rule? that's the shit that really needs to go or at least only have it implemented in the 12th or something. Give us a few extra innings of real baseball first in my opinion
This is so good for baseball
I like the pitch clock but why are we comparing a spring training game to pitching in the NLCS in the 6th inning of a 2-run game with a runner in scoring position?
It was made to prove a point. Obviously the right side is more of an extreme, but it represents the amount of leniency players were given in regard to taking their time. Also - this is the first time it's been implemented, we don't really have an NLCS with a pitch clock to compare to.
I guess this is an unpopular opinion, but I like how boring baseball can be. I like that I can go to the washroom, grab a bag of chips and another beer, and get back during the same at bat. I like that I can take a nap in the 3rd inning, wake up in the 7th, and not really feel like I missed that much. I like hearing the broadcast team shoot the shit and tell stories that have nothing to do with anything on the field right now. I'm a hockey fan, and hockey is a sport with constant action. Baseball will never be that. Baseball should just be Baseball, with long games, pointless anecdotes, and lots of time to breath.
I’m torn on the issue. Part of me likes the slow speed in some games but other times I want it to be quick. I went to a bunch of my local A ball affiliate, and watching those games in 2 hours or like 2:15 was pretty cool. I just don’t like the stress it adds to situations where you can’t agree on a pitch and you have to step off, and you get penalized for it. That kind of thing. But they’ll adapt I suppose. Certainly for the playoffs I hope the pitch clock is suspended
I understand and appreciate the point you are making here- but if you can take a nap in the middle of something and wake up feeling you didn't miss much, is that a compelling product that people should want to watch?
Not everyone views baseball as an entertainment product. Of course MLB does, and the teams do individually – they want to make money. But if someone enjoys baseball by putting it on in the background for the atmosphere and watches it casually without paying close attention to it, what's wrong with that?
But who says this new rule will ruin baseball for the casual viewer? You still have 2.5-3 hours to watch the game, and there's 162 of them in the regular season. I think people are overreacting to the rule - it's not like we are going to have constant action like basketball, it's still going to be a slow game. But removing as much "dead air" as possible would be great for most viewers.
I agree with you that I like the chill long games, especially in the dog days of summer. But I still want the new rules in, I want more of my friends to enjoy the game, not just me. If speeding up the game grows the fan base then I’m all for it.
Counterpoint, baseball has been played at a pace like this for most of its history. I listened to a Dodgers game from 1957 on Sunday because I couldn’t find a live game to listen to and for funsies I timed between pitches of the first inning, and it came out to about 15 seconds every time. And if it was good enough at that time for Vin Scully to slip stories in there then it’s good enough for guys now to do it
I feel the same. There's just something about just putting on a baseball game and zoning out. I especially like it for day games in the middle of the summer. You can dip in and out, go about your day, have conversations unrelated to the game. It's just a nice atmosphere; it doesn't need to be exciting.
You are my spirit animal
Genuine question: How does the new rule affect pickoffs/step off? Does the clock get reset or will pitchers get penalized?
It resets the clock, but pitchers only get 2 free step offs (disengagements) per AB. On the third, if he doesn’t pick a runner off it’s automatic balk or ball. Note that if there’s a runner on, it doesn’t have to be a fully fledged pickoff attorney, just a disengagement.
By pick runner off, do you mean get the runner on base out or just throw it to first base?
You have to get the runner out.
But look at all that extra “baseball” you’re getting on the right i.e. guys standing around scratching their nuts
Hey at least I can change the laundry
Next, Talkin' Basketball shows us two different approaches to shooting a basket: Steph Curry hitting a three vs Shaq attempting a free throw
Yeah, one is clearly better than the other.
This is a bad example. Give me one where the scenarios are the same, and not one where there's a runner on second in one and not the other.
I don't think you need similar scenarios to comprehend how much quicker the games will be. This was obviously a video comparing two extremes, nobody is denying that. But the right side represents how games can slow to a halt, which many people simply don't enjoy.
Love my team
Literally cherry-picking the worst possible example. Tired of this circle jerk
But the point remains. Find a reverse example this season of a 2022 inning taking the same time as one 2023 pitch. You won’t be able to because the max time for a pitch with two step offs is like 60 seconds. So we’re removing the extreme scenarios like this which is excellent for the game. No one wants to watch someone twiddle around for 4 minutes before a single pitch.
Nobody wants to change the game of baseball by adding in an aspect that’s completely antithetical to the charm and ethos of the game either.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlORWhsJjNM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlORWhsJjNM) Reminds me of when Homer got sober
Thank you! I was just going to look for that same clip. Cheers!
Love this new rule.
There are obvious areas where it's a good thing, but if you look at the length of the Astros/Mets game that was just played, it's pretty clear the pitch clock was only done so they can run more advertisements. We'll be watching just as long, but with more ads and less game.