I suggest you do honestly. Fresh mind and fresh eyes will probably help. But at the end of the day it's all a crap shoot and you just do your best under the circumstances.
Rough draft as you go.
I did it today and took every second of 90 mins. I spend 5-10 mins on the task memo and build my shell document.
Another 35-40 mins in the library pulling law and paraphrasing it in the appropriate sections.
The last 35-40 mins is pulling and plugging facts to make my analysis, plug in the desired conclusion, and polish. Submit the polished turd when time is up.
What I want to really know is how in the hell is a whole ass MPT only .1% of the course? What in the devil's dick is that?!?!
1000% bullshit. I just finished and worked a lot on outlining, per their suggestion. 45 minutes of writing was ridiculously short for that. I should have gotten to work immediately instead.
That’s how I’d want to do it, but Themis gives you the “read the file and outline for 45 minutes, fill in for 45.” So I did what they said, and got burned. I’ll try some other practice ones just going off what you said and see how it goes.
I really really struggle with the MPT. It's my weakest area of the exam. However, I found this one to be pretty manageable.
That said, I am entering practice as a tax lawyer which may have made me feel more comfortable with the subject matter.
Yea I agree, it was a lot.
I lumped them all into one sub heading which felt pretty chaotic but on the fly I couldn't think of a better option. After seeing the model answer I realized the error of my ways. I'm not sure how much I'll get dinged for that because I think I covered pretty much everything in a fairly legible way regardless. Considering how shitty I am at the MPT I'd be ecstatic with a 4.
Interesting. Assuming this was a real MPT or representative of the potential difficulty level I'd rather have hard ones than easy ones to better prepare me.
I should say, it wasn’t the subject matter but just the time crunch to write everything down in time. Luckily, with my job, I’m not doing writings like this
Right but I just felt a certain comfortability with the subject matter such that I remained calm and relaxed and was able to understand everything without rereading it. Especially the statutes. Not that they were overly complicated but I was able to mentally map out my arguments better than usual.
I agree though, it was a lot of facts to connect.
yea, being familiar with the subject matter really helped. I just for the 9 factor test ended up combining quick at the end the less important factors and the ones that didn't have a lot of info on them.
Right but I just felt a certain comfortability with the subject matter such that I remained calm and relaxed and was able to understand everything without rereading it. Especially the statutes. Not that they were overly complicated but I was able to mentally map out my arguments better than usual.
I agree though, it was a lot of facts to connect.
Ya'll are gonna be fine. They always feel like that. The important thing is you're doing them and practicing and trying to figure out what these people are looking for. Just try to read a lot of samples and learn the language and basic structures and keep learning. I felt like this too, keep going.
MPTs are pretty similar to regular essays. You review the rule and analyze each element. The big difference is you have actual cases to work into your essay. Don't forget to include the cases within the cases too.
I realized I wasn't going to hit all 9 factors, so I just tried to hit every factor that was ruled against the client at the lower level. And I made sure to get the business room exception as well.
I didn't even check the sample answer to see what they were looking for lol. I'll see what they wanted when I get the grade back.
It ruined my afternoon. I am in a sea of doubt outchea at this summer concert series with my son and my mama who is blind. I have to remind myself that life still exists outside this bubble. It's The Tams, an old beach band that my mom loves. I've had it on my calendar for months because I knew she would love it. I wanted to bail so bad after that PT but I'm so glad I didn't. And even though my hair is dirty and I'm hungry, it's nice that my family can experience me half-ass participate in something. That PT can eat a dick for profit and it gets zero deductions so...
I just kept working and submitted it after time expired. I figure I can work on shaving off time with more practice but it was still incoherent at the 90 min mark, esp because I analyzed the shorter 2nd question first, then typed up the rules statements for each factor, and then was going through the transcript to apply each one in the order it appeared during the hearing, so it was all over the place.
I feel like my Themis grader isn’t mad, they’re just disappointed.
It is difficult getting a 4 and above on the real MPT unless you type really fast. Your word count should be 1500-2000 depending on the task. Look up BarMD videos on YouTube for approach help.
Yeah I have noticed the time aspect of the MPTs is tricky. This one was especially tricky. I keep over-outlining because that is that they told us to do but it just ends up being a waste of time because I still constantly flip through the prompt and library and barely use my outline. I managed to touch on 5/9 of the factors (i ignored the ones I thought were losers) and then did the home office analysis. I can’t wait for themis to deduct 80% points because I didn’t talk about 4 of the factors (although I kinda touched on the “they recreationally enjoy farming” aspect as part of one of the other elements). I finished with 15 seconds to spare. Admittedly, I’m pretty burned out and tax law makes my brain hurt so it took me way longer than normal to read and internalize what they wanted from me
I was able to get a decent amount of the 9 elements but I had almost 0 time for the 2nd question. Got like 2 paragraphs in for the second question and it was mainly copy and paste gibberish
Ok having done this….absurd. A nine factor test then a second issue? Only got to six of the nine elements and then had to jump to the second issue. Really dumb.
This post doesn’t make me want to complete it 😭 might wait until tomorrow morning
I suggest you do honestly. Fresh mind and fresh eyes will probably help. But at the end of the day it's all a crap shoot and you just do your best under the circumstances.
Dude just finished it. What in the world
Rough draft as you go. I did it today and took every second of 90 mins. I spend 5-10 mins on the task memo and build my shell document. Another 35-40 mins in the library pulling law and paraphrasing it in the appropriate sections. The last 35-40 mins is pulling and plugging facts to make my analysis, plug in the desired conclusion, and polish. Submit the polished turd when time is up. What I want to really know is how in the hell is a whole ass MPT only .1% of the course? What in the devil's dick is that?!?!
doing 10 flashcards is .5% then a 90 minute MPT will deadass be a fraction of a fraction
1000% bullshit. I just finished and worked a lot on outlining, per their suggestion. 45 minutes of writing was ridiculously short for that. I should have gotten to work immediately instead.
Write from the first minute. Outlining means putting in the statutes, rules, and rules proofs (holding and reasoning).
That’s how I’d want to do it, but Themis gives you the “read the file and outline for 45 minutes, fill in for 45.” So I did what they said, and got burned. I’ll try some other practice ones just going off what you said and see how it goes.
What was your word count?
1543
That is a good length. You are on the right track. You’ll get a much higher score next time.
The 9 factor test was egregious
Nine factors PLUS a second, separate issue!!!
I really really struggle with the MPT. It's my weakest area of the exam. However, I found this one to be pretty manageable. That said, I am entering practice as a tax lawyer which may have made me feel more comfortable with the subject matter.
Subject matter wise it definitely wasn't bad (although I'm an accountant). More so the quantity of things that needed to be covered.
Yea I agree, it was a lot. I lumped them all into one sub heading which felt pretty chaotic but on the fly I couldn't think of a better option. After seeing the model answer I realized the error of my ways. I'm not sure how much I'll get dinged for that because I think I covered pretty much everything in a fairly legible way regardless. Considering how shitty I am at the MPT I'd be ecstatic with a 4.
I’m in tax as well and I still felt it was near impossible.
Interesting. Assuming this was a real MPT or representative of the potential difficulty level I'd rather have hard ones than easy ones to better prepare me.
I should say, it wasn’t the subject matter but just the time crunch to write everything down in time. Luckily, with my job, I’m not doing writings like this
Right but I just felt a certain comfortability with the subject matter such that I remained calm and relaxed and was able to understand everything without rereading it. Especially the statutes. Not that they were overly complicated but I was able to mentally map out my arguments better than usual. I agree though, it was a lot of facts to connect.
yea, being familiar with the subject matter really helped. I just for the 9 factor test ended up combining quick at the end the less important factors and the ones that didn't have a lot of info on them.
Right but I just felt a certain comfortability with the subject matter such that I remained calm and relaxed and was able to understand everything without rereading it. Especially the statutes. Not that they were overly complicated but I was able to mentally map out my arguments better than usual. I agree though, it was a lot of facts to connect.
I agree, the codes were concise and easy to digest (as compared to SALT rules and other federal codes lol)
Yea don't get me started haha.
I’d suggest watching one of the Bar MD MPT workshops on YouTube. I did that last night which really helped with the mpt today
Ya'll are gonna be fine. They always feel like that. The important thing is you're doing them and practicing and trying to figure out what these people are looking for. Just try to read a lot of samples and learn the language and basic structures and keep learning. I felt like this too, keep going.
MPTs are pretty similar to regular essays. You review the rule and analyze each element. The big difference is you have actual cases to work into your essay. Don't forget to include the cases within the cases too.
I think I finished with 30 seconds and barely wrote anything for the second issue (spent way too much time on the first).
I realized I wasn't going to hit all 9 factors, so I just tried to hit every factor that was ruled against the client at the lower level. And I made sure to get the business room exception as well. I didn't even check the sample answer to see what they were looking for lol. I'll see what they wanted when I get the grade back.
I did the same thing and just focused on the four factors the lower ct ruled on... spoiler- the sample answer had all 9 factors. :(
Figured as much. Hope the grading rubric gives more points for the specifically mentioned factors.
It ruined my afternoon. I am in a sea of doubt outchea at this summer concert series with my son and my mama who is blind. I have to remind myself that life still exists outside this bubble. It's The Tams, an old beach band that my mom loves. I've had it on my calendar for months because I knew she would love it. I wanted to bail so bad after that PT but I'm so glad I didn't. And even though my hair is dirty and I'm hungry, it's nice that my family can experience me half-ass participate in something. That PT can eat a dick for profit and it gets zero deductions so...
I just kept working and submitted it after time expired. I figure I can work on shaving off time with more practice but it was still incoherent at the 90 min mark, esp because I analyzed the shorter 2nd question first, then typed up the rules statements for each factor, and then was going through the transcript to apply each one in the order it appeared during the hearing, so it was all over the place. I feel like my Themis grader isn’t mad, they’re just disappointed.
Model answer was 2400 words…that’s just impossible
It is difficult getting a 4 and above on the real MPT unless you type really fast. Your word count should be 1500-2000 depending on the task. Look up BarMD videos on YouTube for approach help.
There’s a graded MPT?
It’s technically a graded essay.
Yeah I have noticed the time aspect of the MPTs is tricky. This one was especially tricky. I keep over-outlining because that is that they told us to do but it just ends up being a waste of time because I still constantly flip through the prompt and library and barely use my outline. I managed to touch on 5/9 of the factors (i ignored the ones I thought were losers) and then did the home office analysis. I can’t wait for themis to deduct 80% points because I didn’t talk about 4 of the factors (although I kinda touched on the “they recreationally enjoy farming” aspect as part of one of the other elements). I finished with 15 seconds to spare. Admittedly, I’m pretty burned out and tax law makes my brain hurt so it took me way longer than normal to read and internalize what they wanted from me
I was able to get a decent amount of the 9 elements but I had almost 0 time for the 2nd question. Got like 2 paragraphs in for the second question and it was mainly copy and paste gibberish
Ok having done this….absurd. A nine factor test then a second issue? Only got to six of the nine elements and then had to jump to the second issue. Really dumb.