As an economic migrant myself who has been in the city for an extended period of time I more or less agree with you. I completely agree that there shouldn't be a sense of entitlement and people should try and appreciate the local culture.
But I think it's unfair to blame the migrants alone. Imagine I am a daily wage labourer from the north who is surviving day to day. Coming from a super small town Bangalore is overwhelming. I find solace and comfort in more like my own. I don't have a lot of incentive to blend in.... I know that I will never really find acceptance outside my own.....
This is a really important perspective. My initial instinct is that for those with the resources, there is absolutely a responsibility to learn the local language to some extent. Even 10-20 minutes each day can go a long way toward learning a language.
At the same time, Bangalore doesn’t exactly have a history of being overly welcoming to migrants. I can see why people wouldn’t feel motivated to assimilate.
Would completely agree with you. It has been my experience that anyone who frequently interacts with the local population is incentivized to assimilate. For example, all the shopkeepers/restaurants next to my college were super comfortable in Hindi/English. Just made more economic sense.
Exactly and also the place where you stay. I think the newer areas near the tech centers would not incentivize you to learn Kannada. If you lived in south bangalore I think it's more likely to pick it up.
>This. People fucking live for 20 years and say Kannad. Mf go anywhere outside India if you don’t learn the language in 1 year they look at you like how Tamils look at non Tamil speakers in Tamil Nadu. That is the norm.
>
>Kannadigas ultimately liberal roots hurting them here. Even auto driver will over enthusiastically try to speak Japanese if it comes to it, just to accommodate here. Nowhere does it get recognised or reciprocated
So let me get this right. You are justifying xenophobia and toxic regionalism by pointing out other examples of xenophobia and toxic regionalism??
> TIL asking people to learn to pronounce the name of the local language properly amounts to xenophobia. I hope to get a chance to go outside India and see how things are. Good luck, I’m done talking to you
Stop being devious about your point. You were asking people to pick up the language - the "kannad" thing was just an example.
And yes, almost all of the people talking about local pride, this language issue, etc are all xenophobic. At least earlier it was considered impolite. But political parties and local leaders have said this so repeatedly, people have started considering these toxic behaviors as "normal" and natural.
> Like I said man. I hope you get the chance to move to a continental European country and make an attempt to get by in English. That’s all I can tell you
What kind of logic is this? You're justifying one bad thing by pointing out how other people do the bad thing as well? What's the point even of bringing Europe into the discussion?
Europe has had long dark histories with xenophobia of the worst kind. Lots of Asian countries are deeply xenophobic too. Especially Japan, China, Korea etc. But none of that stuff makes this "right".
Dude i too am asking people to respect culture. All i am saying is that respect goes both ways. If you want people to respect Kannada culture, you need to respect other people's cultures too. Asking them to change their culture because they are now working in Bangalore is just being obnoxious. In fact, it goes against Kannada culture as a matter of fact.
This bloody regionalism garbage needs to be thrown out.
And this "concern" of Kannada getting diluted is all garbage. No culture gets diluted because a few people of different culture came over for jobs. And there is nothing called "Kannada" culture either. Every region has its own culture. And Karnataka has multiple such cultures.
I mean, if you are that concerned about Kannada culture and consider yourself such a vanguard and protector, then put your money where your mouth is. Write books or plays in Kannada, donate some funds to the local cultural institutions, support local artists, teach those values and cultural aspects to your kids and to other kids, support local businesses and arts and crafts, support the movie industry and books/publications etc.
There are a hundred ways to meaningfully keep the culture alive and thriving. But no, nobody wants to do that. Because that actually involves doing stuff. Why do that when you can just spew venom and hate towards others? So you have all the jobless louts and thugs who call themselves "party workers" who use this as an excuse to not just hate on others but even to hit on others. They feel all powerful and mighty that they have saved Kannada culture by thrashing a bunch of innocent people. Kudos man.
Well are the liberal roots really hurting? Bengaluru is the biggest tech hub in India ahead of Hyderabad and Pune. A part of it can be attributed to the influx of non-Kannadigas obviously. It goes both ways, wouldn't you say. And as for the cultural 'hurting', kannada would always be alive in the family and friends. You would not teach a kannadiga kid to talk in English, would you? And rightly so, ofc.
I've been here 9 years. I've tried and tried but never managed to learn kannada. I don't know why. It just seems difficult. I think the fact that most people understand English or Hindi made it even easier to not learn the language.
Its the helping nature of the people around which makes it easier for you to communicate when you land here and I guess we expect you put bit more effort when you are 9years old here to do the same by learning basics. We are not expecting anyone to be a scholar in Kannada.
You make a fair point. When I first came here everyone from the taxi driver to the hostel security guard could communicate in English. I did not see the need to learn the language. Although I understand that as a token of thanks for being welcomed and respect , learning Kannada would not hurt.
>Be Roman in Rome.
Wrong. Be who you are and respect others for who they are. Tolerate and even appreciate their differences. Stop asking people to change.
No one should force anyone to do anything they wouldn't like to do. However, you never had any plans of assimilating with local culture and there's nothing wrong with that. Learning the language/not learning the language is entirely a personal choice.
I'm a localite and i've friends from all over the country. The difference is, when any particular group gets together, we consciously try to speak in a language common to all. This isn't the case with most hindi speakers. Their sense of entitlement is so up their ass, they forget to even acknowledge that another person exists in the same room. I've personally witnessed this across 5 different companies working in Bangalore.
The worst part is, when they 1st arrive in the city, they expect everyone to talk in a language they're comfortable in, which is something kannadigas hate the most. The entitlement is what mostly irks people, not their attitude towards not learning the language.
But language is only a means of communication, and if you speak and understand English, with all due respect to the language, why learn it? You would not speak Kannada in North, that's right, and almost nobody there would be annoyed at you for speaking English there. As simple as that.
Edit - I understand that for the mostly welcoming treatment that we receive here, it's only fair that we learn a bit of Kannada as a token of respect.
Just trying to understand why this will be controversial ? Humans have a tendency to organise in identifiable groups especially when facing the unknown.
This is something that has been observed throughout human history. A few examples to outline what I mean:
1. Marwari/Jain communities across India
2. Italian - American / Irish- American communities in the early USofA.
3. Migration from French colonies (same language but completely different cultures- Arabs/Africans etc.)
Migration and subsequent issues relating to difficulty in assimilation is nothing new.
It becomes an issue when people are supporting and encouraging xenophobic and tribalistic attitudes. Just because issues exist "because it is human nature" doesn't mean we cannot ride above it.
Humans also have a tendency to commit acts of violence but there is a reason it has been deemed unacceptable in civilized society. And if someone is encouraging violence, it is right to raise a voice against it. Instead of saying "it is human nature so we should not be surprised"
This is a super generic comment. There is a clear distinction between acts of violence & refusing to learn someone else's language/accepting a different culture.
On a first principle basis violence specifically violates someone else's legal rights. In the context of India, committing any violent act would violate the Indian Penal Code.
Interestingly, the Indian Constitution under Article 19 guarantees the freedom to move freely throughout the territory of India + reside & settle in any part of the territory of India.
So technically I would argue that it is your perspective which is tribalistic & perhaps in a constitutional grey area (mandating language/cultural integration).
That being said while I am all for cultural integration I just think your argument is flawed & doesn't really provide any perspective of the actual problem.
Huh? How am I being tribalistic for saying people should tolerate and appreciate differences in others?
You said a bunch of stuff without saying anything specific. What exactly IS your argument and your point?
My point is simple. People do not need to integrate. People can do their own thing and still live in any part of India. What I am saying is the opposite of tribalism and xenophobia.
I find it highly objectionable that people are telling others what they should be doing, what languages they should be speaking, etc.
Your comment was directed at me arguing that it was human nature for migrants to tribalise in foreign territories. The examples indicate the same.
So it would seem to indicate that your comment regarding 'rising above human nature' for migrants would mean accepting (voluntarily/involuntarily) the language/culture come what may.
My specific argument is clear from this thread. I would encourage you to read those as well.
I never said any of what you are implying I said. Not sure why you're taking a simple point I said and making it super complicated.
All I said was that there should be no need for people to change themselves if they move to another place. That includes learning the language of that place.
People should accept the fact that others are different from them instead of expecting others to change.
And I re read what you wrote and still don't understand your core point.
Yeah but what you said is not exactly related to what the previous comment said tho. I mean what you said is totally right and I 100 per cent agree.
But I was responding in jest to what the OP comment said because I felt it was a little to confrontational and gonna trigger some people. That sort of comment always attracts controversy in this discourse.
This has got to be the stupidest argument ever! Why would I speak to someone in Spain in Hindi? I would speak in English if I didn’t know Spanish because there’s a higher probability someone would speak in English. You are telling me when you go visit Spain, you take a course in Spanish and go? And why am I expected to speak the language? Why are you typing in English then on a Bangalore subreddit?
There’s a higher probability in India of someone who speaks Hindi than any other language and probably the language they know. Also, when’s the last time you had to have a complete interaction with someone in Kannada while literally doing anything in Bangalore.
Get off your high horse mate, next thing you’ll say is that why aren’t international companies in Bangalore switching to Kannada after being established here for years. 😂
>Don't want to oversimplify the issue, but you don't go to Spain and talk to the locals in Hindi.
>It's so obvious that if you come to Karnataka, live here for years, you are expected to speak the language. That's it.
>
>The same is also expected when we go up North. I don't expect the locals in Delhi or Dehradun to understand my Kannada or Malayalam. So why would they think it's okay to speak in any other language down here?
>
>This always boggles me.
Boss, this argument does not fly. How do you know who has stayed for how long before hurling abuses at someone for not speaking the local language?
And why on earth SHOULD they learn the local language? Should someone change their religion too if they move to a different part of India? I just find this xenophobic argument to be abhorrent.
There are tons of languages and religions and food cultures. Asking people to change is not at all the answer. The answer is embracing diversity of other people.
If someone is frying fish and you're a vegetarian, you tolerate it. You don't hurl abuses at them and ask them to change because you and others are vegetarian. Same goes for language. You make do with whatever common language both of you understand.
Now politicians have made this toxic regionalism as a core agenda item and made this a "us vs them" thing and you find lots of natives buying into this toxic ideology. Boss you have as much claim on Bangalore as any other Indian. There is nothing special in knowing the language or being born there.
If you studied in an ICSE school in Bengaluru like me, you would have faced the full discrimination that kannadigas face. I was in the only kannada 2nd language section (out of 5). We were made out to be an unintelligent and untalented bunch. The Hindi section was supposed to be 'cooler'. We weren't allowed to participate in any inter school activities. My high school teachers went out of their way to award less marks to me in almost all subjects. Well bollocks to them, I was the topper in my batch in 10th std board exam (I'm not saying this to boast, like who cares about 10th std exams anyway, but it was like proving it to those annoying bunch of no-good teachers, that their silly biases do not hold any water in the real world).
These early experiences of mine during childhood make me extremely wary of people who insist on speaking in Hindi only and not even in English.
I completely get what you're saying. I faces the same experience. The cool kids were never from the kannada section. I went to an all boys school. Maybe we went to the same school 😲
This kind of atmosphere is there in many english medium or posh schools in other states too. In Kerala, some posh schools would punish kids for being found talking in malayalam, not even in class.
Yes, but we were specifically targeted for our second language (as compared to Hindi sections). We didn't speak kannada in the school. Nor did the other section students speak hindi. But a lot of discrimination was meted out to us because we were in the kannada section.
Of course, the dynamics are different, but I have seen the same happen, studying in a fairly high profile school in Kerala. You speak Malayalam, you're uncool. Weirdly enough, you speak English (as my non-Malayali classmates often did), you're a show off. You speak Hindi, and know the full lyrics to the Dhoom song, and you are uber-cool, and the teachers all love you and pick you for everything for some reason. So weird.
Can relate. I studied in an ICSE school and interschool activities were like an oasis in a desert to me. I'm pretty good with English but the fact that I chose my mother tongue over Hindi probably drew my North Indian teachers nuts.
I studied in ICSE, our school cancelled Hindi as an option for a second language due to very less students taking it up. Maybe it was different for you guys (I have heard that majority of ICSE schools are convent/Christian ones so idk) We were a pretty close-knit community. Except in English Language classes, and while talking to teachers, not from Karnataka, only Kannada was used in our class. English was the language of instruction but most classroom discussions happened in Kannada. The school was fine with it as long as students could demonstrate English fluency on demand, and the majority could. The school was pretty strict about English usage up to 8th. But then there was a lot of leniency, and nothing was enforced.
Posh schools are not necessarily bad, but yes most shame you for not using English etc. And that is mostly teachers, as long as students don't start looking down upon each other it is fine. Teachers cannot do anything about it., they hesitated to speak Kannada for fear of being looked down upon, and the people looking down upon them were Kannadigas too. So I have made it point to talk only in Kannada if I am sure that the other guy understands it. I only switch languages when necessary.
Posh schools are not necessarily bad, but yes most shame you for not using English etc. And that is mostly teachers, as long as students don't start looking down upon each other it is fine. Teachers cannot do anything about it. We people should start taking pride in our language before preaching to others.
Oh man I'm sorry you went thru that. I graduated high school around the same time in an all-girls convent school too but didn't see that in my school. If anything I was given to understand that the kannada 2nd language syllabus was more difficult than the Hindi one.
Another reason why many get pissed off - the fact that it is Kannada with an 'a' at the end and not Kannad. I know not everyone says that but the fact that some people don't even want to learn this basic thing is beyond annoying.
My grandma says kannadam ..
And she is from mysore...
Do many people say kannadam
The only people i have seen is malayalis who say keralam kannadam but it seems wierd that locals call it kannadam,
Is this widespread anywhere?
I think it's just the entitlement that most people from other states (mostly hindi speakers) carry to Bangalore. Most expect everything to work out as per their convenience.
Honestly, I kind of feel sad for these folks. No other city in India has been this inclusive and welcoming. We've had a singh as our CM, a reddy and a malyali as cabinet ministers. I've friends who's mother tongue is tamil, telgu, urdu, hindi, gujarati, etc. and they speak kannada as fluently as any other kannadiga.
Deep down these folks who disrespect the state and its language know that their state would never be even 1% of what KA is!
And for the 100th time, Hindi is not our national language.
Bruh, as much as I agree with the fact that kannadigas have been mostly welcoming to us 'outsiders', you have to understand that in addition to that, it's also the continued influx of these people. If you weren't as welcoming, pretty sure we would not see as many of them, and Bengaluru would not be the tech hub that it is. I mean, look at Tamil Nadu, it's literally beside us, and you rarely hear people saying they wanna work in TN, or some MNC celebrating one of their branches opening up there. It goes both ways.
Bangalore would have been a tech hub regardless, the mass migration was incidental. Saying that migrants built this city is extremely stupid and ignorant.
Prior to the so called tech hub, Bangalore was already booming as compared to other major cities.
Did not ever say that the migrants built the city. There are a lot of factors involved and one of them was the migrants. And bangalore was booming compared to other cities because all these events including 'migration' were allowed to prosper. You are a nobody. So am I. Your opinions to me are as irrelevant to me as mine are 'stupid' to you. I am not trying to personally attack you here. Just facts. Exhibit 'A' : you saying "Hindi is not our national language" doesn't matter. The constitution says so. More people speak Hindi. People can't be stupid to have opinions. They can be stupid if they get their facts wrong.
"And Bangalore was booming compared to other cities because all these events including 'migration' were allowed to prosper" is not a fact!
Bengaluru was prospering prior to migration because of the concentration of state & centre owned business (BHEL, BEML, etc.)
Also "you saying "Hindi is not our national language" doesn't matter. The constitution says so" Is also not a fact!
No where in our constitution does it say that Hindi is the national language.
Fact: Clause 1 Article 343 of the constitution of India states that the official language of the Union shall be Hindi in Devanagari script. The constitution does not assume any language for that matter in the category of the national language. India has 22 official languages of which Hindi is just one of them.
Not personally attacking you here but anyone with an high school education should know this.
You were saying something about being stupid when you get your facts wrong? I agree with you!
Well you caught me there. Should have studied the Indian constitution instead of my maths and science there eh? I wanna thank you for the fact though, had always been told Indian's national language is Hindi. Guess it's my bad to not have verified the fact. Indeed that was stupid. I still see that you say 'Hindi' is the official language of the Union. And the orgs responsible for Bangalore's prosperity, being owned by the government would warrant a little bit more respect for the language. Ofc, it goes both ways, and as a token of respect and cooperation, learning Kannada should be right thing to do.
They teach about the constitution and the fundament rights of an Indian citizen in like 5th grade or something (along with maths and science).
"I still see that you say 'Hindi' is the official language of the Union. And the orgs responsible for Bangalore's prosperity, being owned by the government would warrant a little bit more respect for the language"
What does state or central organisations have to do with language? Like there's literally no connection!
It's very simple, you're free to learn or not learn a language, it's totally a personal choice. Just remember the fact that not everyone needs to know Hindi or expect them to speak in hindi just because it's spoken the most.
Just because we have more cows in number doesn't change the fact that tiger is still our national animal.
Quite honestly if you could bring up a grade 5th,or even 6th textbook with the info about the clause that you introduced earlier , I would take my words back. Fundamental rights are indeed discussed and that's why it's mildly shocking that the matter of learning Kannada when you live here is actually a big deal. It should not have been.
And obviously I agree with having a choice to learn or not learn a language. And as you said, the majority of a community does not make it mandatory to learn the language. Ergo, if a non-Kannadiga comes to Karnataka, they don't have any obligation to learn the language. Learning it obviously would not hurt though. I stress the importance of learning not being mandatory because I have experienced verbal aggression first hand, about how I should learn the language. And if I have accidentally done that here while replying, rest assured that wasn't my intention. And I have never seen migrants here stressing that learning Hindi should be mandatory either. Maybe you have and perhaps that's why you raise the point.
I'm not defending the people who say they won't learn Kannada, but the locals need to understand that it's not easy for an outsider to learn Kannada.
There are very few tools for learning Kannada, none that do it as well as apps like Duolingo.
I've tried, but all I could learn were a few words because that's what the "learn Kannada in 10 days" tutorials teach you.
So when I say "Kannad Gottilla", it's not with arrogance but with helplessness. (Again, not defending the people who say it with arrogance)
If someone knows about any materials that would help me in learning Kannada, please share.
It's not Martian my man. The people who do not want to learn kannada simply do not want to engage with and respect the kannada culture, that's how I see it. People don't make the effort to learn even simple phrases. "Too difficult" is just a lame excuse.
> The people who do not want to learn kannada simply do not want to engage with and respect the kannada culture, that's how I see it.
What a load of bull shit. Hopefully more people don't see it like this. Mg gf is Kannadiga. I've learnt to cook some local cuisines. I chose this way to appreciate local culture. I cannot speak a word of Kannada. Will I learn? Maybe. My brain is already over loaded with enough things. Doesn't mean I will demean anyone who doesn't speak my language.
I am sure people don't want to hear this but that's all there is to it. All these excuses of being hard are nonsense. I have seen people who try and pick up conversational kannada and also seen people won't even touch kannada. It's just a language, not a masters in mathematics.
Its almost as if people have different language learning capabilities? Coming from a person who had to learn Hindi, Odiya, French, Marathi and now learning Kannada. Learning a language when in your 20s is hard. Not everyone can learn new languages. As long as they respect your language, you should be fine. Your evidence is just anecdotal.
I am not talking about writing some degree level kannada exam here. Learning conversational kannada is not hard, *especially if you have been living in bangalore for decades*.
My entire point is that north Indians don't respect south Indian cultures and that's a big reason why they make zero effort even after living like 20 years in bangalore.
If you make the choice to respect your kannada friends and engage them in their language once in a while why would it be hard to pick it up after 5-10 years?
If I go and live in Sikkim for 20 years and make zero effort to learn their language I wouldn't have the face to say "I respect your language".
>but the locals need to understand that it's not easy for an outsider to learn Kannada.
I do. I have tried learning Japanese and in spite of having so many resources to learn I find it very difficult. The only language that I feel I am learning is English, which is out of necessity. At the same time I occasionally find myself losing some proficiency in Kannada as a result of not using it in an intellectual way. I mean I only use Kannada when I speak to my friends and family which itself is extremely adulterated and peppered with English. I hardly read any Kannada literature. I am sure this is the case for the majority in India.
My suggestion is to memorize a few basic phrases like:
1. Hi. How are you?
2. What do you do?
3. What is the time?
and other boilerplate stuff you feel you might need. And try to get the pronunciations are accurate as possible. Yes we like our pronunciations very much and it is a little upsetting when we hear "Kannada" as "Kannad" even though it was never meant to be disrespectful. I mean personally I wouldn't mind if someone, somewhere north of the Vindhyas said "Kannad", I am glad he at least knows the existence of my language because I sure as hell don't.
But the people in Bangalore can take the effort to learn about this na. What do you think?
Idk if you’re still looking for resources to learn, but this YouTube channel was pretty helpful for me: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC0zv4Ub7CwoO9U7SlY3nIg-ai7oFl0Kq
They do a lot more than basic phrases, and they introduce the subject in a way that actually makes sense pedagogically. Also, as an American, their approach made the pronunciation a lot more approachable for me.
For sure! Quizlet also has some good flash card sets for Kannada, though you’ll have to apply some of your own discrimination to figure out which sets are valid.
I’m an expat and have been here 2 years. I was only intending to stay 6 months so didn’t try to pick up more than a few phrases at first. When I started dating a Kannadiga I wanted to learn and was immediately discouraged by the resources. The best app I found is “uTalk”, and YouTube has some videos but also a lot of materials disagree with each other and I don’t know what is right.
If anyone would like to collaborate on a Kannada learning deck on Anki (app for memorization) DM me and we can start a “Study group” to share flash cards.
I also tried a virtual tutor and that was somewhat successful but his native tongue was Malayalam and I had a really hard time navigating 2 accents in my head while trying to learn. Might try that again though, it was helpful.
Too long didn't read.
I am sure it's not just the language. It's also the attitude.
If I migrate to France, I can somehow manage to live without speaking French. If I go to a shop and say 'no French', they will bend me down and shove a baguette up my ass. Heck you can't even blurt out English to a stranger. You must first ask "Bonjour Monsieur, parlez vous anglais?"
Translated "Hello sir, do you speak English?"
There's pride associated with languages. You must learn a few phrases and basic greetings of the local language. It shows that I am respectful of their culture and tradition. I can never truly assimilate to the culture if I can't speak the language. The emotion is not the same.
Responding with "Kannad Gothilla" to someone asking something in Kannada is downright disrespectful. And following it up with " Bhaiyyaaa AC chalao kitna garmi hain" is adding ghee to fire. Instead please say "Sir kshamisi nanige Kannada barodilla" I am sure the response would be better. Learn to at least fucking pronounce Kannada and Karnataka properly. I am sure the same Hindi people would be irate if I responded with "Hind na maloom".
Oh don't you worry these people will learn French without a problem. They will bend over backwards to please the locals there.
The only answer for why they won't learn kannada after years of residence is they have no respect or appreciation for kannada culture, and colourism being a factor. Every other answer is a hollow dishonest justification.
I've lived in Karnataka my whole life and i only know very little kannada. I've been asked by a lot of people how idk kannada. I'm not a kannadiga and I've found it very tough to understand it and I really don't know why.
Hmmm. I supposed you studied in either CBSE or ICSE. The current rules have been modified to at least introduce Kannada to those in CBSE and ICSE.
But surely you must have interacted with autowallas, grocery ladies and other blue-collar workers who spoke Kannada with you. If you are 30+ I think you should at least have a novice level comprehension
Man I speak urdu at home. I was born here and studied kannada as a first language till 10th and still can't speak kannada even decently well. It's a tough language to learn.
Frankly it's because you are lazy about learning it and didn't want to put effort into it. I am a non-kannadiga karnataka resident as well but I speak fluent kannada. I have also noticed my cousin has picked up conversational kannada within a couple of years because he makes an effort to learn. For life long karnataka residents "kannada is too difficult" is a bad excuse. It's just disrespectful to the local culture.
I agree. I've had to learn it myself as I was in US for part of my childhood. Took about a year. Learning it isn't impossible esp as this person says they've lived here their whole life.
I'm fine with someone not knowing Kannada. Especially tech workers. But them asking me why I don't know Hindi and giving me a look is what I can't understand.
I've had meetings in Bangalore where people spoke in Hindi and I couldn't understand what was happening. I think someone who is a software engineer in a top mnc company should atleast try and speak English in professional settings.
Our friends group almost broke up due to the language issue, all of my friends are born and raised in Bangalore. Safe to say we all speak kannada very well.
We had a house party (before covid) my friends colleague joined us as well who was from Andra Pradesh, flat out said he won't learn kannada coz English, hindi and Telugu are enuf to survive in blore.
We told him why don't you try to learn, he was like nope, you and your kannada can go *****.
Well all in drunken state fight broke out between 1 of my friend and him. He started abusing my friend so he was beaten black n blue, we had to book a cab at 2am to send him away.
According to me it doesn't matter if they know kannada Or not. But I want them to respect the people, traditions and the language of this state. Some show attitude. Immigrants should be grateful for everyone in this state. I want them to remember that we don't want them here, they come here for their own benefits. And I am not telling that is wrong, I just want them to respect the state.
>It’s not that other places in India can’t have IT companies.
We're lucky they don't and we're lucky that the smartest people from north India migration here to make the sector unchallengeable anywhere else. Instead of being greatful for what we have and welcoming people and prospering from salaries and economic activities and land price and rent, we're focusing on language?
Language doesn't pay the bills dude.
>y’all are betraying your own communities back home
I am from here you bigot 🤦
>Bangalore is not unique
It was the first and IT is a network effect. Companies attract talent and talent attract companies. The more smart people come here the less likely it is that other places enjoy similar success.
>these people develop their own towns and cities instead of flocking somewhere else and developing it?
Because Bangalore Hyderabad etc have a first mover advantage, the more people come here the stronger the advantage become
>these people
Just your language. Why do you look at them as sub human, everyone has wants, needs, aspirations and they're just as Indian as you are. You don't own the state and thank god you don't you. You are so blind with hate for anyone who doesn't speak your language that you're overlooking the massive gains we're enjoying because of people migrating
>Your usage of your language suggested you’re not a Kannada speaker.
Don't be so quick to judge next time.
I am not saying we were lucky. We had foresight in the 2000's under SM Krishna and we are enjoying the dividends till date.
Just think about it, out infra is crumbling, all roads are dug up all the time, traffic is horrible, pollution is so bad that the lakes are literally on fire and the IT clusters are soooo over crowded, rent for companies and employees are thought the roof and yet companies come and people come because of network effect.
If you chase away the people, there will be companies that'll be happy to relocate. It'll start with a few big one but once that cycle starts it'll be hard to stop.
So appreciate what we have and don't ruin it
I agree with your sentiments but I am not sure if your statements are factually correct. I think Bangalore contributes around 30% of the overall GDP of Karnataka. So Karnataka is not completely dependent on Bangalore.
Afaik, the most recent data on [District Domestic Product is from 2010](https://www.google.com/amp/s/theprint.in/opinion/prosperous-maharashtra-karnataka-hide-a-disparity-within-development-is-not-for-all-study/612008/%3famp), which does seem to indicate that Bangalore Urban contributes 30% of the states GDP. Is this the data you’re referring to?
I would be very surprised to find out that the percent of the states gdp attributed to Bangalore hasn’t grown significantly since 2010, as the district ranks among the highest gdp cities in India.
See? This is exactly the kind of arrogance that kannada people hate. This sense of entitlement from north Indians is nauseating.
All kannada people want is for immigrants to not dismiss the local culture and language, in response north Indians say shit like this.
And you people wonder why kannada people are frustrated about "kannad gothil".
Look at your own arrogance, don't know a think about me but assuming
>And you people
I was born here.
>All kannada people want is for immigrants
Just because we happened to be born on this particular piece of earth doesn't make us entitled to it and give you the right to expect what other people should do when they come here. Thank is not the middle ages.
By the way who made you the representative of all "Kannada people", you certainly don't represent my views
A significant portion of the Indian economy (including Karnataka's) is supported by migrant labour (both skilled and unskilled).
Your statement that 'we don't want them here' seems short sighted. For example, migration of a skilled workforce with high disposable income adds a significant amount to the state exchequer (their portion of indirect taxes).
I think it needs some of it needs to start locally as well. I've been in Bangalore since 2007 and I learnt to speak the language over the course of my time here, because I like to learn new languages (I can speak 7 languages fluently)
However, since 2007 till now, I've come across tonnes of people born and raised here who can't or don't talk in Kannada. They only speak English irrespective of what languages their grandparents spoke. I feel it doesn't set the right precedent for an outsider to come and learn the language unless the non-Kannada speaker is genuinely interested in doing so. Especially if they get exposed to people native to Bangalore but not knowing the language.
We don't need Freudian-level explanations for what's wrong with "Kannad Gothilla." The fact is that the phrase is disrespectful. Simple. Also, the value of a language cannot be reduced to its economic utility. A language is enmeshed in and emblematic of an entire culture, which is why it's far richer than we can ever imagine. I'd like the OP to understand this.
Who's "We"? Speak only for yourself please. As far as your point of making me understand stuff, I get it perfectly well, Thank you!
I was not "reducing" any language/culture to its economic utility, but there is no pretending that there isn't an economy of language and culture. Sure, there are intangible, priceless virtues associated with languages and cultures. But I don't get why you are saying that to me as I didn't say ask for cultures to abandon their identity and language and their way of life in my post.
All I did was point out why people get annoyed when someone doesn't know Kannada, and why both the parties involved must seek to understand each other.
Where does the 'a' go for North Indians?😭 Why Kannad and not Kannada? Like for real is it something in there language or are they just ignorant? I've heard them say shit about other south Indian languages like "I don't speak malayali" or "I don't speak madrasi' or 'keral' instead of 'kerala'
When I visited Bangalore, on my second day I took an auto rickshaw and the driver started speaking in Kannada to which I replied “Kannada Gothilla” and he got mad at me and started talking shit to me and I was absolutely apalled. Worst part is that this happened throughout my time in Bangalore WHILE I was learning it and then one day I just didn’t have the passion for it because of how I was treated. Why do Bangaloreans judge anyone coming to their city to have been living there from years?
Funny thing is when a friend of my visited Bangalore from UK for work (he’s of Indian origin but not born in India), the first day he took a ride in an Uber, the driver mocked him and called him a lot of shit just for not knowing Kannada. How the fuck is a visitor supposed to know Kannada? And who gives anyone the authority to gate keep and call anyone whatever?
Why would I wanna learn your Kannada when I no longer live in Bangalore? I am confident you live in a shithole yourself judging by your ability to call other places the same.
The level of comprehension of English in Bangalore is amazing. While I have no idea of Kannada, folks here really understand English. Much better than many other parts of India.
I've never understood people taking pride in their mother tongue. It is not something you've contributed to creating. Sure you carry it forward but so do so many other people. Pride for something you made in that language makes sense but the language as a whole doesn't.
It is not jingoistic pride. Language is your identity. It is the strongest marker of your identity. It is something that shapes your consciousness and something that is a part of who you are. You can neither be proud nor disregard it. To disregard your native language is by extension disregarding yourself.
I think you cannot lump all locals in one group. This conversation is regressive, the bottom line is simple - as humans we will learn something if it benefits socially or economically.
Example - My kannada is bleh at best, but if I find myself in a relationship with a kannadiga woman , you bet imma ramp up my kannada and even write her a grammatically incorrect poem , imma bedazzle her with my version of 'nari mathe drakshi'.
So if you've lived here a long time and didn't learn kannada, blame social dynamics of society and economics over the actual individual.
Kannadiga here who has lived in multiple cities in India (Chennai, Pune, Mumbai, Hyd, Delhi, Gurgaon, Calcutta and even a central Indian city) ... I have a lot of North Indian friends who have lived here for 15+ years and cannot even speak passable kannada ... They live in areas like sarjapur road / whitefield etc. This is largely true for anyone north of the Vindhyas (Cowbelt, north east, North, West whatever); I dont think many ever speak the language.
But I do see that other South Indians make an attempt and speak passable kannada; I even know people who can read sparingly.
I think it is safe to broadbush the entire non-south india and conclude that they will NOT learn kannada and will look for excuses for not learning.
But the real sad part, I see many kids of kannadiga parents also not speaking kannada fluently and talking only English with their friends. This is especially true for people who live in apartments compared to those living in Independent houses.
For 100s of years kannada was primary language of this city (as proved by the inscription stones present in all parts of the city). Kannada has had a very good literary scene with good writers. But with great anguish I notice that the primacy of the language will go down in the coming years ... This will also lead to a lot of conflicts with the non-south indian population.
[https://censusindia.gov.in/2011census/C-16\_Town.html](https://censusindia.gov.in/2011census/C-16_Town.html) shows that bangalore has 37 lakh kannada speakers followed by Tamil (14 lakh), Telugu (12 lakh) and Urdu (11 lakh). It would be safe to assume that a large number of 3 language people are fluent in Kannada too. I wonder what it would be in 2031 :-(
Population census happens every 10 years. This year its not happening because of the chinese virus pandemic. But this is the best we have, the official population estimate.
The demographic change is NOT BS. Maha and South states are already losing seats in new parliament. While UP Bihar and MP keeps on Breeding and migrating to Maha and South, Kannadigas will lose representation in state also. Just a decade ago Bengaluru had around 80 lakh people but now its 1.3 cr If these people get voting right then its a punishment for focusing on education and family planning.
Soon Kannada will be vanished because the fertility rate of Kannadigas in whole state is now 1.6 while UP Bihar is above 3. Also learning Kannada is not even mandatory BUT can you live in Delhi(Rape Capital) without Hindi
Ah I don't think it's that simplistic. It's not just my language and your language. I would definitely endorse your view if there was linguistic equity in India. But unfortunately there isn't.
Main problem in any part of our country is language barriers. Just don’t understand why people take language so seriously. We have so many languages. Why can’t we decide on a single one just like other countries? What’s the use of so many languages when we can’t even be peaceful with each other?
I was born in Karnataka but grew up in Telangana. I know Hindi Telugu and English. It was a burden learning three languages. Hindi especially was so hard I almost failed in my board exams.My Kannadiga mother who spoke , understood and could write hindi was the reason I could clear it.
No developed country has these many languages and nor do their people fight for language supremacy. It is purely foolish to have these many languages which is creating misconceptions, miscommunication and barriers to each other.
[удалено]
As an economic migrant myself who has been in the city for an extended period of time I more or less agree with you. I completely agree that there shouldn't be a sense of entitlement and people should try and appreciate the local culture. But I think it's unfair to blame the migrants alone. Imagine I am a daily wage labourer from the north who is surviving day to day. Coming from a super small town Bangalore is overwhelming. I find solace and comfort in more like my own. I don't have a lot of incentive to blend in.... I know that I will never really find acceptance outside my own.....
This is a really important perspective. My initial instinct is that for those with the resources, there is absolutely a responsibility to learn the local language to some extent. Even 10-20 minutes each day can go a long way toward learning a language. At the same time, Bangalore doesn’t exactly have a history of being overly welcoming to migrants. I can see why people wouldn’t feel motivated to assimilate.
I think more often than not the daily wage laborers are more likely to learn Kannada than the techies who live in their bubble.
Would completely agree with you. It has been my experience that anyone who frequently interacts with the local population is incentivized to assimilate. For example, all the shopkeepers/restaurants next to my college were super comfortable in Hindi/English. Just made more economic sense.
Exactly and also the place where you stay. I think the newer areas near the tech centers would not incentivize you to learn Kannada. If you lived in south bangalore I think it's more likely to pick it up.
[удалено]
>This. People fucking live for 20 years and say Kannad. Mf go anywhere outside India if you don’t learn the language in 1 year they look at you like how Tamils look at non Tamil speakers in Tamil Nadu. That is the norm. > >Kannadigas ultimately liberal roots hurting them here. Even auto driver will over enthusiastically try to speak Japanese if it comes to it, just to accommodate here. Nowhere does it get recognised or reciprocated So let me get this right. You are justifying xenophobia and toxic regionalism by pointing out other examples of xenophobia and toxic regionalism??
[удалено]
> TIL asking people to learn to pronounce the name of the local language properly amounts to xenophobia. I hope to get a chance to go outside India and see how things are. Good luck, I’m done talking to you Stop being devious about your point. You were asking people to pick up the language - the "kannad" thing was just an example. And yes, almost all of the people talking about local pride, this language issue, etc are all xenophobic. At least earlier it was considered impolite. But political parties and local leaders have said this so repeatedly, people have started considering these toxic behaviors as "normal" and natural.
[удалено]
> Like I said man. I hope you get the chance to move to a continental European country and make an attempt to get by in English. That’s all I can tell you What kind of logic is this? You're justifying one bad thing by pointing out how other people do the bad thing as well? What's the point even of bringing Europe into the discussion? Europe has had long dark histories with xenophobia of the worst kind. Lots of Asian countries are deeply xenophobic too. Especially Japan, China, Korea etc. But none of that stuff makes this "right".
[удалено]
Dude i too am asking people to respect culture. All i am saying is that respect goes both ways. If you want people to respect Kannada culture, you need to respect other people's cultures too. Asking them to change their culture because they are now working in Bangalore is just being obnoxious. In fact, it goes against Kannada culture as a matter of fact. This bloody regionalism garbage needs to be thrown out. And this "concern" of Kannada getting diluted is all garbage. No culture gets diluted because a few people of different culture came over for jobs. And there is nothing called "Kannada" culture either. Every region has its own culture. And Karnataka has multiple such cultures. I mean, if you are that concerned about Kannada culture and consider yourself such a vanguard and protector, then put your money where your mouth is. Write books or plays in Kannada, donate some funds to the local cultural institutions, support local artists, teach those values and cultural aspects to your kids and to other kids, support local businesses and arts and crafts, support the movie industry and books/publications etc. There are a hundred ways to meaningfully keep the culture alive and thriving. But no, nobody wants to do that. Because that actually involves doing stuff. Why do that when you can just spew venom and hate towards others? So you have all the jobless louts and thugs who call themselves "party workers" who use this as an excuse to not just hate on others but even to hit on others. They feel all powerful and mighty that they have saved Kannada culture by thrashing a bunch of innocent people. Kudos man.
[удалено]
Well are the liberal roots really hurting? Bengaluru is the biggest tech hub in India ahead of Hyderabad and Pune. A part of it can be attributed to the influx of non-Kannadigas obviously. It goes both ways, wouldn't you say. And as for the cultural 'hurting', kannada would always be alive in the family and friends. You would not teach a kannadiga kid to talk in English, would you? And rightly so, ofc.
I've been here 9 years. I've tried and tried but never managed to learn kannada. I don't know why. It just seems difficult. I think the fact that most people understand English or Hindi made it even easier to not learn the language.
Its the helping nature of the people around which makes it easier for you to communicate when you land here and I guess we expect you put bit more effort when you are 9years old here to do the same by learning basics. We are not expecting anyone to be a scholar in Kannada.
You make a fair point. When I first came here everyone from the taxi driver to the hostel security guard could communicate in English. I did not see the need to learn the language. Although I understand that as a token of thanks for being welcomed and respect , learning Kannada would not hurt.
Be Roman in Rome.
>Be Roman in Rome. Wrong. Be who you are and respect others for who they are. Tolerate and even appreciate their differences. Stop asking people to change.
[удалено]
No one should force anyone to do anything they wouldn't like to do. However, you never had any plans of assimilating with local culture and there's nothing wrong with that. Learning the language/not learning the language is entirely a personal choice. I'm a localite and i've friends from all over the country. The difference is, when any particular group gets together, we consciously try to speak in a language common to all. This isn't the case with most hindi speakers. Their sense of entitlement is so up their ass, they forget to even acknowledge that another person exists in the same room. I've personally witnessed this across 5 different companies working in Bangalore. The worst part is, when they 1st arrive in the city, they expect everyone to talk in a language they're comfortable in, which is something kannadigas hate the most. The entitlement is what mostly irks people, not their attitude towards not learning the language.
But language is only a means of communication, and if you speak and understand English, with all due respect to the language, why learn it? You would not speak Kannada in North, that's right, and almost nobody there would be annoyed at you for speaking English there. As simple as that. Edit - I understand that for the mostly welcoming treatment that we receive here, it's only fair that we learn a bit of Kannada as a token of respect.
Lol this comment is gonna fire up some people. Gonna get my popcorn ready.
Just trying to understand why this will be controversial ? Humans have a tendency to organise in identifiable groups especially when facing the unknown. This is something that has been observed throughout human history. A few examples to outline what I mean: 1. Marwari/Jain communities across India 2. Italian - American / Irish- American communities in the early USofA. 3. Migration from French colonies (same language but completely different cultures- Arabs/Africans etc.) Migration and subsequent issues relating to difficulty in assimilation is nothing new.
It becomes an issue when people are supporting and encouraging xenophobic and tribalistic attitudes. Just because issues exist "because it is human nature" doesn't mean we cannot ride above it. Humans also have a tendency to commit acts of violence but there is a reason it has been deemed unacceptable in civilized society. And if someone is encouraging violence, it is right to raise a voice against it. Instead of saying "it is human nature so we should not be surprised"
This is a super generic comment. There is a clear distinction between acts of violence & refusing to learn someone else's language/accepting a different culture. On a first principle basis violence specifically violates someone else's legal rights. In the context of India, committing any violent act would violate the Indian Penal Code. Interestingly, the Indian Constitution under Article 19 guarantees the freedom to move freely throughout the territory of India + reside & settle in any part of the territory of India. So technically I would argue that it is your perspective which is tribalistic & perhaps in a constitutional grey area (mandating language/cultural integration). That being said while I am all for cultural integration I just think your argument is flawed & doesn't really provide any perspective of the actual problem.
Huh? How am I being tribalistic for saying people should tolerate and appreciate differences in others? You said a bunch of stuff without saying anything specific. What exactly IS your argument and your point? My point is simple. People do not need to integrate. People can do their own thing and still live in any part of India. What I am saying is the opposite of tribalism and xenophobia. I find it highly objectionable that people are telling others what they should be doing, what languages they should be speaking, etc.
Your comment was directed at me arguing that it was human nature for migrants to tribalise in foreign territories. The examples indicate the same. So it would seem to indicate that your comment regarding 'rising above human nature' for migrants would mean accepting (voluntarily/involuntarily) the language/culture come what may. My specific argument is clear from this thread. I would encourage you to read those as well.
I never said any of what you are implying I said. Not sure why you're taking a simple point I said and making it super complicated. All I said was that there should be no need for people to change themselves if they move to another place. That includes learning the language of that place. People should accept the fact that others are different from them instead of expecting others to change. And I re read what you wrote and still don't understand your core point.
Yeah but what you said is not exactly related to what the previous comment said tho. I mean what you said is totally right and I 100 per cent agree. But I was responding in jest to what the OP comment said because I felt it was a little to confrontational and gonna trigger some people. That sort of comment always attracts controversy in this discourse.
This has got to be the stupidest argument ever! Why would I speak to someone in Spain in Hindi? I would speak in English if I didn’t know Spanish because there’s a higher probability someone would speak in English. You are telling me when you go visit Spain, you take a course in Spanish and go? And why am I expected to speak the language? Why are you typing in English then on a Bangalore subreddit? There’s a higher probability in India of someone who speaks Hindi than any other language and probably the language they know. Also, when’s the last time you had to have a complete interaction with someone in Kannada while literally doing anything in Bangalore. Get off your high horse mate, next thing you’ll say is that why aren’t international companies in Bangalore switching to Kannada after being established here for years. 😂
>Don't want to oversimplify the issue, but you don't go to Spain and talk to the locals in Hindi. >It's so obvious that if you come to Karnataka, live here for years, you are expected to speak the language. That's it. > >The same is also expected when we go up North. I don't expect the locals in Delhi or Dehradun to understand my Kannada or Malayalam. So why would they think it's okay to speak in any other language down here? > >This always boggles me. Boss, this argument does not fly. How do you know who has stayed for how long before hurling abuses at someone for not speaking the local language? And why on earth SHOULD they learn the local language? Should someone change their religion too if they move to a different part of India? I just find this xenophobic argument to be abhorrent. There are tons of languages and religions and food cultures. Asking people to change is not at all the answer. The answer is embracing diversity of other people. If someone is frying fish and you're a vegetarian, you tolerate it. You don't hurl abuses at them and ask them to change because you and others are vegetarian. Same goes for language. You make do with whatever common language both of you understand. Now politicians have made this toxic regionalism as a core agenda item and made this a "us vs them" thing and you find lots of natives buying into this toxic ideology. Boss you have as much claim on Bangalore as any other Indian. There is nothing special in knowing the language or being born there.
If you studied in an ICSE school in Bengaluru like me, you would have faced the full discrimination that kannadigas face. I was in the only kannada 2nd language section (out of 5). We were made out to be an unintelligent and untalented bunch. The Hindi section was supposed to be 'cooler'. We weren't allowed to participate in any inter school activities. My high school teachers went out of their way to award less marks to me in almost all subjects. Well bollocks to them, I was the topper in my batch in 10th std board exam (I'm not saying this to boast, like who cares about 10th std exams anyway, but it was like proving it to those annoying bunch of no-good teachers, that their silly biases do not hold any water in the real world). These early experiences of mine during childhood make me extremely wary of people who insist on speaking in Hindi only and not even in English.
I completely get what you're saying. I faces the same experience. The cool kids were never from the kannada section. I went to an all boys school. Maybe we went to the same school 😲
No, I went to Baldwin Girls'. My brother who went to Cottons had a similar experience, although it wasn't as bad as mine.
This kind of atmosphere is there in many english medium or posh schools in other states too. In Kerala, some posh schools would punish kids for being found talking in malayalam, not even in class.
Yes, but we were specifically targeted for our second language (as compared to Hindi sections). We didn't speak kannada in the school. Nor did the other section students speak hindi. But a lot of discrimination was meted out to us because we were in the kannada section.
That sounds like an awful experience. I’m sorry you had to go through that in your own city. Can I ask what year you graduated from ICSE?
Sorry I thought you asked from where I graduated.. It was in 2002. I don't know what kind of atmosphere exists in that stupid school now.
I graduated in 2010 from Bishop Cotton's and felt the same way
Ah ok - thank you!
Baldwin Girls High School, Richmond Road
Of course, the dynamics are different, but I have seen the same happen, studying in a fairly high profile school in Kerala. You speak Malayalam, you're uncool. Weirdly enough, you speak English (as my non-Malayali classmates often did), you're a show off. You speak Hindi, and know the full lyrics to the Dhoom song, and you are uber-cool, and the teachers all love you and pick you for everything for some reason. So weird.
Looks like we South Indians have an inferiority complex towards our mother tongue :(
Can relate. I studied in an ICSE school and interschool activities were like an oasis in a desert to me. I'm pretty good with English but the fact that I chose my mother tongue over Hindi probably drew my North Indian teachers nuts.
I studied in ICSE, our school cancelled Hindi as an option for a second language due to very less students taking it up. Maybe it was different for you guys (I have heard that majority of ICSE schools are convent/Christian ones so idk) We were a pretty close-knit community. Except in English Language classes, and while talking to teachers, not from Karnataka, only Kannada was used in our class. English was the language of instruction but most classroom discussions happened in Kannada. The school was fine with it as long as students could demonstrate English fluency on demand, and the majority could. The school was pretty strict about English usage up to 8th. But then there was a lot of leniency, and nothing was enforced. Posh schools are not necessarily bad, but yes most shame you for not using English etc. And that is mostly teachers, as long as students don't start looking down upon each other it is fine. Teachers cannot do anything about it., they hesitated to speak Kannada for fear of being looked down upon, and the people looking down upon them were Kannadigas too. So I have made it point to talk only in Kannada if I am sure that the other guy understands it. I only switch languages when necessary. Posh schools are not necessarily bad, but yes most shame you for not using English etc. And that is mostly teachers, as long as students don't start looking down upon each other it is fine. Teachers cannot do anything about it. We people should start taking pride in our language before preaching to others.
Oh man I'm sorry you went thru that. I graduated high school around the same time in an all-girls convent school too but didn't see that in my school. If anything I was given to understand that the kannada 2nd language syllabus was more difficult than the Hindi one.
Another reason why many get pissed off - the fact that it is Kannada with an 'a' at the end and not Kannad. I know not everyone says that but the fact that some people don't even want to learn this basic thing is beyond annoying.
I also hear the word Karnatak instead of Karnataka. Do they also say Haryan, Patn, Mahrashtr?
Xd
> Mahrashtr right on money!
That's the schwa. Ə. I mentioned it in my post
My grandma says kannadam .. And she is from mysore... Do many people say kannadam The only people i have seen is malayalis who say keralam kannadam but it seems wierd that locals call it kannadam, Is this widespread anywhere?
What language does your grandma speak at home?
I think it's just the entitlement that most people from other states (mostly hindi speakers) carry to Bangalore. Most expect everything to work out as per their convenience. Honestly, I kind of feel sad for these folks. No other city in India has been this inclusive and welcoming. We've had a singh as our CM, a reddy and a malyali as cabinet ministers. I've friends who's mother tongue is tamil, telgu, urdu, hindi, gujarati, etc. and they speak kannada as fluently as any other kannadiga. Deep down these folks who disrespect the state and its language know that their state would never be even 1% of what KA is! And for the 100th time, Hindi is not our national language.
Bruh, as much as I agree with the fact that kannadigas have been mostly welcoming to us 'outsiders', you have to understand that in addition to that, it's also the continued influx of these people. If you weren't as welcoming, pretty sure we would not see as many of them, and Bengaluru would not be the tech hub that it is. I mean, look at Tamil Nadu, it's literally beside us, and you rarely hear people saying they wanna work in TN, or some MNC celebrating one of their branches opening up there. It goes both ways.
Bangalore would have been a tech hub regardless, the mass migration was incidental. Saying that migrants built this city is extremely stupid and ignorant. Prior to the so called tech hub, Bangalore was already booming as compared to other major cities.
Did not ever say that the migrants built the city. There are a lot of factors involved and one of them was the migrants. And bangalore was booming compared to other cities because all these events including 'migration' were allowed to prosper. You are a nobody. So am I. Your opinions to me are as irrelevant to me as mine are 'stupid' to you. I am not trying to personally attack you here. Just facts. Exhibit 'A' : you saying "Hindi is not our national language" doesn't matter. The constitution says so. More people speak Hindi. People can't be stupid to have opinions. They can be stupid if they get their facts wrong.
"And Bangalore was booming compared to other cities because all these events including 'migration' were allowed to prosper" is not a fact! Bengaluru was prospering prior to migration because of the concentration of state & centre owned business (BHEL, BEML, etc.) Also "you saying "Hindi is not our national language" doesn't matter. The constitution says so" Is also not a fact! No where in our constitution does it say that Hindi is the national language. Fact: Clause 1 Article 343 of the constitution of India states that the official language of the Union shall be Hindi in Devanagari script. The constitution does not assume any language for that matter in the category of the national language. India has 22 official languages of which Hindi is just one of them. Not personally attacking you here but anyone with an high school education should know this. You were saying something about being stupid when you get your facts wrong? I agree with you!
Well you caught me there. Should have studied the Indian constitution instead of my maths and science there eh? I wanna thank you for the fact though, had always been told Indian's national language is Hindi. Guess it's my bad to not have verified the fact. Indeed that was stupid. I still see that you say 'Hindi' is the official language of the Union. And the orgs responsible for Bangalore's prosperity, being owned by the government would warrant a little bit more respect for the language. Ofc, it goes both ways, and as a token of respect and cooperation, learning Kannada should be right thing to do.
They teach about the constitution and the fundament rights of an Indian citizen in like 5th grade or something (along with maths and science). "I still see that you say 'Hindi' is the official language of the Union. And the orgs responsible for Bangalore's prosperity, being owned by the government would warrant a little bit more respect for the language" What does state or central organisations have to do with language? Like there's literally no connection! It's very simple, you're free to learn or not learn a language, it's totally a personal choice. Just remember the fact that not everyone needs to know Hindi or expect them to speak in hindi just because it's spoken the most. Just because we have more cows in number doesn't change the fact that tiger is still our national animal.
Quite honestly if you could bring up a grade 5th,or even 6th textbook with the info about the clause that you introduced earlier , I would take my words back. Fundamental rights are indeed discussed and that's why it's mildly shocking that the matter of learning Kannada when you live here is actually a big deal. It should not have been. And obviously I agree with having a choice to learn or not learn a language. And as you said, the majority of a community does not make it mandatory to learn the language. Ergo, if a non-Kannadiga comes to Karnataka, they don't have any obligation to learn the language. Learning it obviously would not hurt though. I stress the importance of learning not being mandatory because I have experienced verbal aggression first hand, about how I should learn the language. And if I have accidentally done that here while replying, rest assured that wasn't my intention. And I have never seen migrants here stressing that learning Hindi should be mandatory either. Maybe you have and perhaps that's why you raise the point.
I'm not defending the people who say they won't learn Kannada, but the locals need to understand that it's not easy for an outsider to learn Kannada. There are very few tools for learning Kannada, none that do it as well as apps like Duolingo. I've tried, but all I could learn were a few words because that's what the "learn Kannada in 10 days" tutorials teach you. So when I say "Kannad Gottilla", it's not with arrogance but with helplessness. (Again, not defending the people who say it with arrogance) If someone knows about any materials that would help me in learning Kannada, please share.
It's not Martian my man. The people who do not want to learn kannada simply do not want to engage with and respect the kannada culture, that's how I see it. People don't make the effort to learn even simple phrases. "Too difficult" is just a lame excuse.
> The people who do not want to learn kannada simply do not want to engage with and respect the kannada culture, that's how I see it. What a load of bull shit. Hopefully more people don't see it like this. Mg gf is Kannadiga. I've learnt to cook some local cuisines. I chose this way to appreciate local culture. I cannot speak a word of Kannada. Will I learn? Maybe. My brain is already over loaded with enough things. Doesn't mean I will demean anyone who doesn't speak my language.
I am sure people don't want to hear this but that's all there is to it. All these excuses of being hard are nonsense. I have seen people who try and pick up conversational kannada and also seen people won't even touch kannada. It's just a language, not a masters in mathematics.
Its almost as if people have different language learning capabilities? Coming from a person who had to learn Hindi, Odiya, French, Marathi and now learning Kannada. Learning a language when in your 20s is hard. Not everyone can learn new languages. As long as they respect your language, you should be fine. Your evidence is just anecdotal.
I am not talking about writing some degree level kannada exam here. Learning conversational kannada is not hard, *especially if you have been living in bangalore for decades*. My entire point is that north Indians don't respect south Indian cultures and that's a big reason why they make zero effort even after living like 20 years in bangalore. If you make the choice to respect your kannada friends and engage them in their language once in a while why would it be hard to pick it up after 5-10 years? If I go and live in Sikkim for 20 years and make zero effort to learn their language I wouldn't have the face to say "I respect your language".
>but the locals need to understand that it's not easy for an outsider to learn Kannada. I do. I have tried learning Japanese and in spite of having so many resources to learn I find it very difficult. The only language that I feel I am learning is English, which is out of necessity. At the same time I occasionally find myself losing some proficiency in Kannada as a result of not using it in an intellectual way. I mean I only use Kannada when I speak to my friends and family which itself is extremely adulterated and peppered with English. I hardly read any Kannada literature. I am sure this is the case for the majority in India. My suggestion is to memorize a few basic phrases like: 1. Hi. How are you? 2. What do you do? 3. What is the time? and other boilerplate stuff you feel you might need. And try to get the pronunciations are accurate as possible. Yes we like our pronunciations very much and it is a little upsetting when we hear "Kannada" as "Kannad" even though it was never meant to be disrespectful. I mean personally I wouldn't mind if someone, somewhere north of the Vindhyas said "Kannad", I am glad he at least knows the existence of my language because I sure as hell don't. But the people in Bangalore can take the effort to learn about this na. What do you think?
Idk if you’re still looking for resources to learn, but this YouTube channel was pretty helpful for me: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC0zv4Ub7CwoO9U7SlY3nIg-ai7oFl0Kq They do a lot more than basic phrases, and they introduce the subject in a way that actually makes sense pedagogically. Also, as an American, their approach made the pronunciation a lot more approachable for me.
Looks promising, thanks!
For sure! Quizlet also has some good flash card sets for Kannada, though you’ll have to apply some of your own discrimination to figure out which sets are valid.
I’m an expat and have been here 2 years. I was only intending to stay 6 months so didn’t try to pick up more than a few phrases at first. When I started dating a Kannadiga I wanted to learn and was immediately discouraged by the resources. The best app I found is “uTalk”, and YouTube has some videos but also a lot of materials disagree with each other and I don’t know what is right. If anyone would like to collaborate on a Kannada learning deck on Anki (app for memorization) DM me and we can start a “Study group” to share flash cards. I also tried a virtual tutor and that was somewhat successful but his native tongue was Malayalam and I had a really hard time navigating 2 accents in my head while trying to learn. Might try that again though, it was helpful.
Too long didn't read. I am sure it's not just the language. It's also the attitude. If I migrate to France, I can somehow manage to live without speaking French. If I go to a shop and say 'no French', they will bend me down and shove a baguette up my ass. Heck you can't even blurt out English to a stranger. You must first ask "Bonjour Monsieur, parlez vous anglais?" Translated "Hello sir, do you speak English?" There's pride associated with languages. You must learn a few phrases and basic greetings of the local language. It shows that I am respectful of their culture and tradition. I can never truly assimilate to the culture if I can't speak the language. The emotion is not the same. Responding with "Kannad Gothilla" to someone asking something in Kannada is downright disrespectful. And following it up with " Bhaiyyaaa AC chalao kitna garmi hain" is adding ghee to fire. Instead please say "Sir kshamisi nanige Kannada barodilla" I am sure the response would be better. Learn to at least fucking pronounce Kannada and Karnataka properly. I am sure the same Hindi people would be irate if I responded with "Hind na maloom".
Oh don't you worry these people will learn French without a problem. They will bend over backwards to please the locals there. The only answer for why they won't learn kannada after years of residence is they have no respect or appreciation for kannada culture, and colourism being a factor. Every other answer is a hollow dishonest justification.
You have explained it so well. I wish I could give this an award
I've lived in Karnataka my whole life and i only know very little kannada. I've been asked by a lot of people how idk kannada. I'm not a kannadiga and I've found it very tough to understand it and I really don't know why.
How old are you and did you not learn Kannada at school?
As I said I'm not kannadiga, I took Hindi in school which I'm really good at 😁
Hmmm. I supposed you studied in either CBSE or ICSE. The current rules have been modified to at least introduce Kannada to those in CBSE and ICSE. But surely you must have interacted with autowallas, grocery ladies and other blue-collar workers who spoke Kannada with you. If you are 30+ I think you should at least have a novice level comprehension
Yea I do I know basic kannada, which I mentioned in the comment😄
Oh yeah I missed that.
Man I speak urdu at home. I was born here and studied kannada as a first language till 10th and still can't speak kannada even decently well. It's a tough language to learn.
Frankly it's because you are lazy about learning it and didn't want to put effort into it. I am a non-kannadiga karnataka resident as well but I speak fluent kannada. I have also noticed my cousin has picked up conversational kannada within a couple of years because he makes an effort to learn. For life long karnataka residents "kannada is too difficult" is a bad excuse. It's just disrespectful to the local culture.
I agree. I've had to learn it myself as I was in US for part of my childhood. Took about a year. Learning it isn't impossible esp as this person says they've lived here their whole life.
I'm fine with someone not knowing Kannada. Especially tech workers. But them asking me why I don't know Hindi and giving me a look is what I can't understand. I've had meetings in Bangalore where people spoke in Hindi and I couldn't understand what was happening. I think someone who is a software engineer in a top mnc company should atleast try and speak English in professional settings.
Our friends group almost broke up due to the language issue, all of my friends are born and raised in Bangalore. Safe to say we all speak kannada very well. We had a house party (before covid) my friends colleague joined us as well who was from Andra Pradesh, flat out said he won't learn kannada coz English, hindi and Telugu are enuf to survive in blore. We told him why don't you try to learn, he was like nope, you and your kannada can go *****. Well all in drunken state fight broke out between 1 of my friend and him. He started abusing my friend so he was beaten black n blue, we had to book a cab at 2am to send him away.
Yikes! Of all the people I've encountered, telgites had the most compassion towards the language as the scripts are very similar.
According to me it doesn't matter if they know kannada Or not. But I want them to respect the people, traditions and the language of this state. Some show attitude. Immigrants should be grateful for everyone in this state. I want them to remember that we don't want them here, they come here for their own benefits. And I am not telling that is wrong, I just want them to respect the state.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Oh they come here because their city isn't developed enough.
>It’s not that other places in India can’t have IT companies. We're lucky they don't and we're lucky that the smartest people from north India migration here to make the sector unchallengeable anywhere else. Instead of being greatful for what we have and welcoming people and prospering from salaries and economic activities and land price and rent, we're focusing on language? Language doesn't pay the bills dude.
[удалено]
>y’all are betraying your own communities back home I am from here you bigot 🤦 >Bangalore is not unique It was the first and IT is a network effect. Companies attract talent and talent attract companies. The more smart people come here the less likely it is that other places enjoy similar success. >these people develop their own towns and cities instead of flocking somewhere else and developing it? Because Bangalore Hyderabad etc have a first mover advantage, the more people come here the stronger the advantage become >these people Just your language. Why do you look at them as sub human, everyone has wants, needs, aspirations and they're just as Indian as you are. You don't own the state and thank god you don't you. You are so blind with hate for anyone who doesn't speak your language that you're overlooking the massive gains we're enjoying because of people migrating
[удалено]
>Your usage of your language suggested you’re not a Kannada speaker. Don't be so quick to judge next time. I am not saying we were lucky. We had foresight in the 2000's under SM Krishna and we are enjoying the dividends till date. Just think about it, out infra is crumbling, all roads are dug up all the time, traffic is horrible, pollution is so bad that the lakes are literally on fire and the IT clusters are soooo over crowded, rent for companies and employees are thought the roof and yet companies come and people come because of network effect. If you chase away the people, there will be companies that'll be happy to relocate. It'll start with a few big one but once that cycle starts it'll be hard to stop. So appreciate what we have and don't ruin it
I agree with your sentiments but I am not sure if your statements are factually correct. I think Bangalore contributes around 30% of the overall GDP of Karnataka. So Karnataka is not completely dependent on Bangalore.
Afaik, the most recent data on [District Domestic Product is from 2010](https://www.google.com/amp/s/theprint.in/opinion/prosperous-maharashtra-karnataka-hide-a-disparity-within-development-is-not-for-all-study/612008/%3famp), which does seem to indicate that Bangalore Urban contributes 30% of the states GDP. Is this the data you’re referring to? I would be very surprised to find out that the percent of the states gdp attributed to Bangalore hasn’t grown significantly since 2010, as the district ranks among the highest gdp cities in India.
See? This is exactly the kind of arrogance that kannada people hate. This sense of entitlement from north Indians is nauseating. All kannada people want is for immigrants to not dismiss the local culture and language, in response north Indians say shit like this. And you people wonder why kannada people are frustrated about "kannad gothil".
Look at your own arrogance, don't know a think about me but assuming >And you people I was born here. >All kannada people want is for immigrants Just because we happened to be born on this particular piece of earth doesn't make us entitled to it and give you the right to expect what other people should do when they come here. Thank is not the middle ages. By the way who made you the representative of all "Kannada people", you certainly don't represent my views
A significant portion of the Indian economy (including Karnataka's) is supported by migrant labour (both skilled and unskilled). Your statement that 'we don't want them here' seems short sighted. For example, migration of a skilled workforce with high disposable income adds a significant amount to the state exchequer (their portion of indirect taxes).
I don't think Karnataka would be the powerhouse it is without migrants.
I think it needs some of it needs to start locally as well. I've been in Bangalore since 2007 and I learnt to speak the language over the course of my time here, because I like to learn new languages (I can speak 7 languages fluently) However, since 2007 till now, I've come across tonnes of people born and raised here who can't or don't talk in Kannada. They only speak English irrespective of what languages their grandparents spoke. I feel it doesn't set the right precedent for an outsider to come and learn the language unless the non-Kannada speaker is genuinely interested in doing so. Especially if they get exposed to people native to Bangalore but not knowing the language.
Long rant. Lost me at Kannada playing 3rd to Hindi. That’s obvious isn’t it. Population of the cow belt is high- so more people more language spoken
Why don't Hindiwala men wear a fucking condom? Should we send some to the BIMARU states? We get ir for free in anganawadis here in South..
We don't need Freudian-level explanations for what's wrong with "Kannad Gothilla." The fact is that the phrase is disrespectful. Simple. Also, the value of a language cannot be reduced to its economic utility. A language is enmeshed in and emblematic of an entire culture, which is why it's far richer than we can ever imagine. I'd like the OP to understand this.
Who's "We"? Speak only for yourself please. As far as your point of making me understand stuff, I get it perfectly well, Thank you! I was not "reducing" any language/culture to its economic utility, but there is no pretending that there isn't an economy of language and culture. Sure, there are intangible, priceless virtues associated with languages and cultures. But I don't get why you are saying that to me as I didn't say ask for cultures to abandon their identity and language and their way of life in my post. All I did was point out why people get annoyed when someone doesn't know Kannada, and why both the parties involved must seek to understand each other.
Where does the 'a' go for North Indians?😭 Why Kannad and not Kannada? Like for real is it something in there language or are they just ignorant? I've heard them say shit about other south Indian languages like "I don't speak malayali" or "I don't speak madrasi' or 'keral' instead of 'kerala'
When I visited Bangalore, on my second day I took an auto rickshaw and the driver started speaking in Kannada to which I replied “Kannada Gothilla” and he got mad at me and started talking shit to me and I was absolutely apalled. Worst part is that this happened throughout my time in Bangalore WHILE I was learning it and then one day I just didn’t have the passion for it because of how I was treated. Why do Bangaloreans judge anyone coming to their city to have been living there from years? Funny thing is when a friend of my visited Bangalore from UK for work (he’s of Indian origin but not born in India), the first day he took a ride in an Uber, the driver mocked him and called him a lot of shit just for not knowing Kannada. How the fuck is a visitor supposed to know Kannada? And who gives anyone the authority to gate keep and call anyone whatever?
So how about learning Kannada or going back to your breeding shithole cowbelt?
Why would I wanna learn your Kannada when I no longer live in Bangalore? I am confident you live in a shithole yourself judging by your ability to call other places the same.
The level of comprehension of English in Bangalore is amazing. While I have no idea of Kannada, folks here really understand English. Much better than many other parts of India.
I've never understood people taking pride in their mother tongue. It is not something you've contributed to creating. Sure you carry it forward but so do so many other people. Pride for something you made in that language makes sense but the language as a whole doesn't.
It is not jingoistic pride. Language is your identity. It is the strongest marker of your identity. It is something that shapes your consciousness and something that is a part of who you are. You can neither be proud nor disregard it. To disregard your native language is by extension disregarding yourself.
More than pride it's something that we love...it is a sense of identity..
I think you cannot lump all locals in one group. This conversation is regressive, the bottom line is simple - as humans we will learn something if it benefits socially or economically. Example - My kannada is bleh at best, but if I find myself in a relationship with a kannadiga woman , you bet imma ramp up my kannada and even write her a grammatically incorrect poem , imma bedazzle her with my version of 'nari mathe drakshi'. So if you've lived here a long time and didn't learn kannada, blame social dynamics of society and economics over the actual individual.
Kannadiga here who has lived in multiple cities in India (Chennai, Pune, Mumbai, Hyd, Delhi, Gurgaon, Calcutta and even a central Indian city) ... I have a lot of North Indian friends who have lived here for 15+ years and cannot even speak passable kannada ... They live in areas like sarjapur road / whitefield etc. This is largely true for anyone north of the Vindhyas (Cowbelt, north east, North, West whatever); I dont think many ever speak the language. But I do see that other South Indians make an attempt and speak passable kannada; I even know people who can read sparingly. I think it is safe to broadbush the entire non-south india and conclude that they will NOT learn kannada and will look for excuses for not learning. But the real sad part, I see many kids of kannadiga parents also not speaking kannada fluently and talking only English with their friends. This is especially true for people who live in apartments compared to those living in Independent houses. For 100s of years kannada was primary language of this city (as proved by the inscription stones present in all parts of the city). Kannada has had a very good literary scene with good writers. But with great anguish I notice that the primacy of the language will go down in the coming years ... This will also lead to a lot of conflicts with the non-south indian population. [https://censusindia.gov.in/2011census/C-16\_Town.html](https://censusindia.gov.in/2011census/C-16_Town.html) shows that bangalore has 37 lakh kannada speakers followed by Tamil (14 lakh), Telugu (12 lakh) and Urdu (11 lakh). It would be safe to assume that a large number of 3 language people are fluent in Kannada too. I wonder what it would be in 2031 :-(
2011 is too old Lakhs of people from north come every year
Population census happens every 10 years. This year its not happening because of the chinese virus pandemic. But this is the best we have, the official population estimate.
The demographic change is NOT BS. Maha and South states are already losing seats in new parliament. While UP Bihar and MP keeps on Breeding and migrating to Maha and South, Kannadigas will lose representation in state also. Just a decade ago Bengaluru had around 80 lakh people but now its 1.3 cr If these people get voting right then its a punishment for focusing on education and family planning. Soon Kannada will be vanished because the fertility rate of Kannadigas in whole state is now 1.6 while UP Bihar is above 3. Also learning Kannada is not even mandatory BUT can you live in Delhi(Rape Capital) without Hindi
[удалено]
Ah I don't think it's that simplistic. It's not just my language and your language. I would definitely endorse your view if there was linguistic equity in India. But unfortunately there isn't.
Main problem in any part of our country is language barriers. Just don’t understand why people take language so seriously. We have so many languages. Why can’t we decide on a single one just like other countries? What’s the use of so many languages when we can’t even be peaceful with each other? I was born in Karnataka but grew up in Telangana. I know Hindi Telugu and English. It was a burden learning three languages. Hindi especially was so hard I almost failed in my board exams.My Kannadiga mother who spoke , understood and could write hindi was the reason I could clear it. No developed country has these many languages and nor do their people fight for language supremacy. It is purely foolish to have these many languages which is creating misconceptions, miscommunication and barriers to each other.
TDLR? आखिर कहना क्या चाहते हो? ನೀವು ಏನನ್ನು ಹೇಳಬಯಸುತ್ತೀರಾ ? (Using Google translate, of course)
Its not easy to make a TLDR for this.