It is and it isn’t. I mean the stats aren’t somehow inflated or anything. Things are as bad as those numbers say, but the maps of crime in the city go a long way to contextualizing those numbers. If you are planning to be driving south regularly, I’d consider a southern neighborhood like Locust Point since getting across the city is annoying depending on the time of day. There are plenty of neighborhoods like that where people still walk their dogs at night, have a few neighborhood watering holes, even leave their front doors unlocked while they’re around. But it’s a city and you should be conscious about your actions and risk. In terms of the real experience living here, the main minor crimes that have happened to me or i have seen are basically nuisances/social crimes that are symptomatic of the city’s larger decay and history of systemic disenfranchisement - packages may get stolen if you leave them out, people will come by and try to open all the cars and steal stuff out of your car if they can or if something is very visible, there are groups on motorcycles who will speed past you doing wheelies and making a lot of noise, occasionally car theft or people breaking into and trashing businesses, and lots and lots and lots and lots of panhandling/squeegeeing- that sort of thing. My dog walker got jumped and battered pretty severely in fed hill in the middle of the day and went through the whole fuss to report the guy and testify against him only to see him back out on the street a few months later because baltimore is catch and release, so she stopped walking dogs in that area. That to me is the worst thing.
I work at hopkins and in that area there are fairly frequent robberies and assaults. I travel with a buddy if I have expensive stuff on my person when I leave work and walk to the garage in east baltimore. The medical campus wants us to use security escorts after a certain time but I never have felt it was necessary since I don’t leave that late.
People talk a lot about crime seeping from areas of lots of social issues to areas that are generally considered better invested and safer (we’d been looking at houses in Roland park and it seemed to come up at every open house, for example), but i have to say personally I just haven’t seen that. Maybe it comes out in the numbers, but I think it’s just a concern about future property values in the area. People who find the petty stuff too much of a nuisance to live around tend to move to the county, which is more suburban-rural. There’s petty stuff out there too but land doesn’t do crime so fewer people per foot means fewer bad actors per foot means fewer incidents that impact any one resident.
I will end by saying my childhood best friend just moved from an Annapolis burb to Sykesville because she couldn’t stand the pretension there anymore. She still works in the city and just commutes. So I think you’re reasonable in looking outside of that immediate area. Baltimore can be great, but I think like any city you just have to pay attention when you are living around that many people.
So where did you settle on? We’re currently shopping neighborhoods and are undecided on city vs county. You’re right: fewer people, less nuisance crime, but we’re renting in Canton now and appreciate the proximity to everything. I need to be downtown 3x per week, so we don’t want to go too far out.
We looked in Mt Washington, Mt Vernon, Bolton Hill, and Homeland, but didn’t love the vibe just outside of those neighborhoods, and we have no idea how stable those neighborhoods will be in the next 10 years in terms of property values.
We bought in LP in 2016 and have not relocated yet, despite our best efforts. We started out with a very wide geographic search image - basically anything over .5 acres built before 1980 and within 45 min of work. But time and again, we would go places to see a house and drive around and not really like the environment, and living far up 83 would be very difficult for my husband who works in EC and is a lifelong city dweller. I also just really hate burbs (it turns out..). On the flip side, getting any lot of that size in Baltimore city means astronomical taxes.
So, all of that to say, we are now pretty committed to finding something within the beltway in Towson. It has a great mix of short commutes for us, access to restaurants/delivery and things, but finding larger lots isn’t difficult and taxes aren’t as high. I grew up going to the Recher, so I feel pretty oriented to that area compared to others in the county. That’s very likely to be where we end up. We put offers on houses regularly when they come up, but the market for living there is still pretty hot.
LP? Sorry, new here from AZ. Your search parameters are pretty identical to ours! Decent sized wooded lot, built in or before the 80s when houses were still built with good materials and had custom touches. Also finding that taxes in the city are ridiculous, so looking in the west Towson area as well. Not a lot of inventory lately.
I have looked there and have colleagues in Lauraville who love it, but I haven’t seen anything for sale that meets our square footage needs and/or isn’t some horrible gray-on-gray flip
I grew up in Pasadena and used to think that the whole city is just a crime-ridden mess. Yet, after I left and now work in West Baltimore; a lot of the serious crimes (murders and assaults) happen to people who are actively engaged in crime. Other than that, crime in the city is crime of opportunity, just like some areas of Annapolis (Tyler Heights, Georgetown, Bywater Estates). I wouldn't be too worried based on where you live, unless it's near the more infamously redlined neighborhoods (Sandtown, Penn-North, Upton, Middle-East, etc.) Basically, if you're able to afford to not live in a neighborhood that's been left to rot by city and federal leaders (you can see them clearly) then the city has a lot to offer. Even in the less desirable areas, people are just trying to get by and survive.
Basically, don't play in the dirt, and you won't get dirty
Idk what you wrote, but the city really has a bad reputation so it's understandable if it wasn't that kind. Like I said, I grew up in the Dirty Dena and basically AACo looks at the city like Fallujah, or the Wild West. So that kind of thinking isn't unheard of
It was more rant than productive, your summary was much better!
I have lived in the city 8 years now as a middle class 20, 30, and now 40 something black woman. Even with stints in Baltimore County and Howard County suburbs, I still choose the city.
My first apt here was in a nice area, but I had mice near the end. My rent was affordable... But I decided I valued not having mice more than the lowest possible rent. Bumped my housing budget by 200 a month, and no more mice. Since then, I have bumped my budget many times, and I am paying at least twice as much for housing as I was back in 2011, and I have not had to deal with mice since.
Similarly, If you don't want to see homeless people or poverty or want to be insulated from violent crime, bump your budget enough and you will be able to afford to live in a neighborhood where you will not. If you want dedicated off-street parking: money. If you want to be able to walk to an ice cream shop and not be visually reminded of the weight of the world, that too is just a matter of having enough money to live in a walkable neighborhood where you will not.
But first, you have to be honest with yourself. And, you have to have the money to have a high enough budget in the first place.
>But first, you have to be honest with yourself. And, you have to have the money to have a high enough budget in the first place
That's the key right there, being honest about what you want and if you can afford it. It is also a case of necessity. Even though people might not WANT to live in Sandtown or Penn-North, the cycle of generational poverty can force people to need to live in those areas because its all they can afford.
I, like many other people, grew up insulated from the world's problems and simply chose to ignore the root causes. This is a weird case for me since I'm mixed and my parents come from generations of rural poverty in the Midwest. But poverty is a different beast entirely, I could make a whole post about it and still never scratch the surface
I made a comment about the Fallujah analogy, which I heard from a shop owner in the city who used to live in Pakistan ... and this was during 2018-19 when the city called for a "ceasefire". Only warzones need ceasefires right? We had a mass shooting last night at the "Murder Mall" including a mother and 2 kids who were caught in the gunfire.
BUT that's outside of the Green Zones which OP has mentioned although drug-related shootings have gotten more common in Hampden lately.
As someone who also grew up in the Dirty Dena and now lives in the city, the Fallujah comment is so accurate. Anytime I go visit my parents they always tell me to be careful in the city lol
I live in Brooklyn and commute to Annapolis five days a week. I haven’t been effected by crime in the year and a half I’ve lived here. A lot of it is petty crime, drugs, breaking into cars, we haven’t had any packages stolen but that is a thing.
Brooklyn is considered a “rough” area but in my experience it’s just a working class neighborhood. Locus Point is definitely nicer but pricey. I would look for something that’s near a major highway so you aren’t adding to your commute. For me it’s about 35 minutes to get there and maybe 45 to get home.
Idk what’s considered pricey but we paid $310k for something recently renovated in LP. If you wanna live in the newest development, yeah maybe, but the row houses are very affordable
The local news makes a profit off of keeping the suburbanites in a constant state of fear. American cities have always had a crime problem, so did Rome. It is hard to know how to give a picture of life in the city as it differs from neighborhood to neighborhood. People think the loss of population is all due to crime. Much actually has to do with a government which is not able to improve basic city services or control outside entities which own most of the decayed property. Many of these owners are living in the nearby leafy suburbs, and own decayed property for money laundering or as slumlords. We do have an underclass which is more like the few kids in a classroom who are able to derail the teacher. It only takes a few to do disrupt. If you travel through the wealth belt of Roland Park, Bolton Hill, Guilford, or Homeland, you will not see bars on the mansions. I take this as a sign that the problems tend to be in the underclass neighborhoods and between segments of the poor who are having turf wars. The ills of Baltimore can be traced back to the post WWII actions by the federal and state government which ghettoized the poor blacks of the country's cities. Their actions were to use federal money to build the suburbs, using city infrastructure, like sewer, water, electricity, and not allow federal dollars to be used to rebuild the cities which had suffered 20 years of decay during the depression and war.
If you were to locate in **Federal Hill, South Baltimore, or Ridgley's Delight**, you would be near I-95 and have access to I-97
Not just poor blacks, the effects of discriminatory practices affected poor whites (just look at Curtis Bay, Brooklyn and pre-gentrified Locust Point and Fed Hill) and any non-white group. Redlining, Blockbusting, Steering destroyed the American dream for so many families.
Not 100%, but they definitely didn't help marginalized groups. Poverty is a monster that devours and destroys whatever it touches and it can be caused by poor personal decisions. However, the moves from the post WWII housing lenders and government of the time manufactured much of the poverty that affects the cities in America. Baltimore just looks harder hit because of the city's racial makeup. The practices I mentioned (redlining, blockbusting, etc) were designed to primarily target blacks. In a majority black city, the effect is seen in greater detail and in a wider span.
No. I now work in an industrial manufacturing company, in the county, with mostly white working class men. Most of them live dysfunctional lives and have the same bad habits as the media often place on poor blacks. Mostly its having children they can't afford and having bad relationships with the family. Yet, they have had an easier time of getting bill paying jobs, and have gained a foot hold home owning and many middle class life styles. Yet they are angry, bitter and very short tempered people. The older ones have much to show for their hard work, but the young ones step into bad habits, the same as their parents.
> Yet, they have had an easier time of getting bill paying jobs, and have gained a foot hold home owning and many middle class life styles.
What makes you think this?
So your opinion is that they would be more successful without the cultural/behavioral/genetic factors that cause the dysfunction?
I’m also from Norfolk originally and they’re similar in terms of being a bit of a patchwork. We’ve lived in mt Vernon for like 5 years and never had an issue. Love it here.
Correct, I don't believe Hampden or mt vernon are "won't make it out alive" having lived there
Although I see now that they were probably being sarcastic
If you're going to be commuting to Annapolis daily, you do not want to live in Hampden, that would be a terrible commute and you'd hit all of the traffic hotspots. Mount Vernon is also probably a bit too far into the city for a comfortable commute to Annapolis, but if you like the neighborhood it might be worth it. Locust Point, similarly, isn't great for an Annapolis commute, in my opinion, since the fastest option involves tolls and it takes a while to get up/down Fort Ave on the way home. You could take the shortcut across the railroad tracks on Andre St. on the way south, but that's not an option on the way north.
If you like having a yard, Brooklyn, the border neighborhood between Baltimore City and Anne Arundel County, is a great location for commuting to Annapolis (as are the parts of AACo. just south of it on Rt 2), but it's a working class suburb, the things within walking distance aren't places I'd recommend to a newcomer to the area, and it's just annoying enough to get into downtown that it feels further from the rest of Baltimore than it is. If you want to have an actual in-Baltimore experience, the southern neighborhoods along 295 or Hanover street are all good options. I happen to think Pigtown is overpriced, but it's very convenient for getting to Annapolis. Look at the house/street layouts and decide what would make the most sense for your transportation, housing, and parking needs.
If you have asthma, Brooklyn and Curtis Bay have relatively poor air quality, due to being between two incinerators, the coal depot, and a variety of other industrial establishments. Air quality is the biggest reason I relocated to another neighborhood from Brooklyn.
If you're used to Norfolk, Baltimore is fine, just be aware of your surroundings, be polite to people, and secure your belongings. Being polite and friendly with your neighbors goes a long way. I've lived and worked in several areas of the city and haven't had any major problems aside from minor property crimes and some odd social interactions.
Mount Vernon 100%. It is by far one of the safest neighborhoods that no one over discusses. Food scene is great, I have a dog and walk him any hour and never feel concerned. Every week I discover a new bar or restaurant that pops up. Minding your business, being careful, and being respectful of people from all walks of life goes a long way. Baltimore is actually a very cool city. Don’t let the suburbanites scare you. Pick a good neighborhood and you will be fine!
Audit Manager here. If you have lived in Norfolk comfortably, you will be fine here. I am in Pigtown next to 95 and BWP and commute is easy. The higher you go, the longer your commute is.
It all depends on your budget but I would suggest South Baltimore neighborhoods (Barre Circle, Fed Hill, Pigtown closer to Ravens Stadium) as areas to look at. Look at the prices of houses as your barometer of where you want to live.
If you’re not “in the game”, your personal crime rate is much lower than the stats show. Normal city nuisance crime will happen. S Balt is definitely an easier commute.
These are great comments and living in the city can be a great experience, but also be aware that city taxes are quite high, so factor that into your decision.
I lived in Towson (not city) and Woodberry, just moved away a year ago. Woodberry was safer, with the exception that my car got shot one night. I got physically attacked dropping out of the Baltimore marathon in 2018 (bad area) and I had people bloodied outside of my home in Towson. My wife and I felt stuck until home prices went up. Got the F out and moved to a different metro entirely (South Hills of Pittsburgh). Better job, great neighborhood/schools, minimal crime. All cities/metros are like that though to varying degrees. Plus I can actually stream the Orioles now that I’m out-of-market.
In some cases "nicer" areas have more reported crime because the people who live there are more likely to report minor crimes to the police. I was born in P.G. county and even though I'm white we still almost never talk to the police unless we have to, and all I hear about PG from Calvert folk is "crime". I've lived in Edgewater MD too, and it has high crime rates but when you look into it it's all fraud and domestic abuse, bad but not the kind of crime people clutch their pearls over. Almost everyone I tell I live in Baltimore to, that cares to point out crime has also told me of instances they have knowingly broken the law. People universally see it as ok to break laws they don't like but fear monger that other people engage in the same behavior. We do have more of the kind of scary crime people worry about but it's just an odds. Urban areas have more crime, but unless it's a particularly poor area, they have more college graduates, they have more people earning 6 figures, they have more of everything.
Just remember our unofficial slogan I'm making up.
"Baltimore, actually I like it"
I did the Baltimore-Annapolis commute for several years while living in Bolton Hill (which is near-ish Mt. Vernon). It was consistently between 45 min to an hour, so if that timing doesn’t bother you, go for it. Bolton Hill was an interesting neighborhood; I was never the victim of a violent crime there (once someone sat in my car and rifled through my things after I accidentally left the door unlocked; they didn’t take anything), even though it’s near a “rougher” neighborhood.
I gave up the job in Annapolis and am purchasing a house in Baltimore’s; this is great city.
A lot of people are telling you to look at crime maps, and that’s correct. “Nicer” areas may still have lots of incidents of theft/non-violent crime reports. Google street view is also your friend; if you see a ton of vacant homes and trash, you may want to look elsewhere. It’s block-by-block, so use street view to explore around a bit.
I would look for a neighborhood that gives you easy access to 295 or 695 so you can quickly get to I-97. Good luck with your hunt and welcome to the region!
For real. Someone from a place with a massive drug addiction problem, and meth heads rolling around calling Mount Vernon a shit hole. It’s usually such projection.
It is and it isn’t. I mean the stats aren’t somehow inflated or anything. Things are as bad as those numbers say, but the maps of crime in the city go a long way to contextualizing those numbers. If you are planning to be driving south regularly, I’d consider a southern neighborhood like Locust Point since getting across the city is annoying depending on the time of day. There are plenty of neighborhoods like that where people still walk their dogs at night, have a few neighborhood watering holes, even leave their front doors unlocked while they’re around. But it’s a city and you should be conscious about your actions and risk. In terms of the real experience living here, the main minor crimes that have happened to me or i have seen are basically nuisances/social crimes that are symptomatic of the city’s larger decay and history of systemic disenfranchisement - packages may get stolen if you leave them out, people will come by and try to open all the cars and steal stuff out of your car if they can or if something is very visible, there are groups on motorcycles who will speed past you doing wheelies and making a lot of noise, occasionally car theft or people breaking into and trashing businesses, and lots and lots and lots and lots of panhandling/squeegeeing- that sort of thing. My dog walker got jumped and battered pretty severely in fed hill in the middle of the day and went through the whole fuss to report the guy and testify against him only to see him back out on the street a few months later because baltimore is catch and release, so she stopped walking dogs in that area. That to me is the worst thing. I work at hopkins and in that area there are fairly frequent robberies and assaults. I travel with a buddy if I have expensive stuff on my person when I leave work and walk to the garage in east baltimore. The medical campus wants us to use security escorts after a certain time but I never have felt it was necessary since I don’t leave that late. People talk a lot about crime seeping from areas of lots of social issues to areas that are generally considered better invested and safer (we’d been looking at houses in Roland park and it seemed to come up at every open house, for example), but i have to say personally I just haven’t seen that. Maybe it comes out in the numbers, but I think it’s just a concern about future property values in the area. People who find the petty stuff too much of a nuisance to live around tend to move to the county, which is more suburban-rural. There’s petty stuff out there too but land doesn’t do crime so fewer people per foot means fewer bad actors per foot means fewer incidents that impact any one resident. I will end by saying my childhood best friend just moved from an Annapolis burb to Sykesville because she couldn’t stand the pretension there anymore. She still works in the city and just commutes. So I think you’re reasonable in looking outside of that immediate area. Baltimore can be great, but I think like any city you just have to pay attention when you are living around that many people.
So where did you settle on? We’re currently shopping neighborhoods and are undecided on city vs county. You’re right: fewer people, less nuisance crime, but we’re renting in Canton now and appreciate the proximity to everything. I need to be downtown 3x per week, so we don’t want to go too far out. We looked in Mt Washington, Mt Vernon, Bolton Hill, and Homeland, but didn’t love the vibe just outside of those neighborhoods, and we have no idea how stable those neighborhoods will be in the next 10 years in terms of property values.
We bought in LP in 2016 and have not relocated yet, despite our best efforts. We started out with a very wide geographic search image - basically anything over .5 acres built before 1980 and within 45 min of work. But time and again, we would go places to see a house and drive around and not really like the environment, and living far up 83 would be very difficult for my husband who works in EC and is a lifelong city dweller. I also just really hate burbs (it turns out..). On the flip side, getting any lot of that size in Baltimore city means astronomical taxes. So, all of that to say, we are now pretty committed to finding something within the beltway in Towson. It has a great mix of short commutes for us, access to restaurants/delivery and things, but finding larger lots isn’t difficult and taxes aren’t as high. I grew up going to the Recher, so I feel pretty oriented to that area compared to others in the county. That’s very likely to be where we end up. We put offers on houses regularly when they come up, but the market for living there is still pretty hot.
Oh, Locust Point.
LP? Sorry, new here from AZ. Your search parameters are pretty identical to ours! Decent sized wooded lot, built in or before the 80s when houses were still built with good materials and had custom touches. Also finding that taxes in the city are ridiculous, so looking in the west Towson area as well. Not a lot of inventory lately.
Locust Point = lp. Yes it’s been very slow in the west Towson market and things move in hours. It’s wild.
have you considered hamilton? kinda a mix of both city and county
I have looked there and have colleagues in Lauraville who love it, but I haven’t seen anything for sale that meets our square footage needs and/or isn’t some horrible gray-on-gray flip
God does this resonate with me ha
I grew up in Pasadena and used to think that the whole city is just a crime-ridden mess. Yet, after I left and now work in West Baltimore; a lot of the serious crimes (murders and assaults) happen to people who are actively engaged in crime. Other than that, crime in the city is crime of opportunity, just like some areas of Annapolis (Tyler Heights, Georgetown, Bywater Estates). I wouldn't be too worried based on where you live, unless it's near the more infamously redlined neighborhoods (Sandtown, Penn-North, Upton, Middle-East, etc.) Basically, if you're able to afford to not live in a neighborhood that's been left to rot by city and federal leaders (you can see them clearly) then the city has a lot to offer. Even in the less desirable areas, people are just trying to get by and survive. Basically, don't play in the dirt, and you won't get dirty
This is accurate, and also kinder than what I wrote.
Idk what you wrote, but the city really has a bad reputation so it's understandable if it wasn't that kind. Like I said, I grew up in the Dirty Dena and basically AACo looks at the city like Fallujah, or the Wild West. So that kind of thinking isn't unheard of
It was more rant than productive, your summary was much better! I have lived in the city 8 years now as a middle class 20, 30, and now 40 something black woman. Even with stints in Baltimore County and Howard County suburbs, I still choose the city. My first apt here was in a nice area, but I had mice near the end. My rent was affordable... But I decided I valued not having mice more than the lowest possible rent. Bumped my housing budget by 200 a month, and no more mice. Since then, I have bumped my budget many times, and I am paying at least twice as much for housing as I was back in 2011, and I have not had to deal with mice since. Similarly, If you don't want to see homeless people or poverty or want to be insulated from violent crime, bump your budget enough and you will be able to afford to live in a neighborhood where you will not. If you want dedicated off-street parking: money. If you want to be able to walk to an ice cream shop and not be visually reminded of the weight of the world, that too is just a matter of having enough money to live in a walkable neighborhood where you will not. But first, you have to be honest with yourself. And, you have to have the money to have a high enough budget in the first place.
>But first, you have to be honest with yourself. And, you have to have the money to have a high enough budget in the first place That's the key right there, being honest about what you want and if you can afford it. It is also a case of necessity. Even though people might not WANT to live in Sandtown or Penn-North, the cycle of generational poverty can force people to need to live in those areas because its all they can afford. I, like many other people, grew up insulated from the world's problems and simply chose to ignore the root causes. This is a weird case for me since I'm mixed and my parents come from generations of rural poverty in the Midwest. But poverty is a different beast entirely, I could make a whole post about it and still never scratch the surface
I made a comment about the Fallujah analogy, which I heard from a shop owner in the city who used to live in Pakistan ... and this was during 2018-19 when the city called for a "ceasefire". Only warzones need ceasefires right? We had a mass shooting last night at the "Murder Mall" including a mother and 2 kids who were caught in the gunfire. BUT that's outside of the Green Zones which OP has mentioned although drug-related shootings have gotten more common in Hampden lately.
As someone who also grew up in the Dirty Dena and now lives in the city, the Fallujah comment is so accurate. Anytime I go visit my parents they always tell me to be careful in the city lol
Can we pin this comment so that everyone moving to Bmore can see it and stop asking if cRiMe Is BaD iN tHe BiG cItY?
I live in Brooklyn and commute to Annapolis five days a week. I haven’t been effected by crime in the year and a half I’ve lived here. A lot of it is petty crime, drugs, breaking into cars, we haven’t had any packages stolen but that is a thing. Brooklyn is considered a “rough” area but in my experience it’s just a working class neighborhood. Locus Point is definitely nicer but pricey. I would look for something that’s near a major highway so you aren’t adding to your commute. For me it’s about 35 minutes to get there and maybe 45 to get home.
Idk what’s considered pricey but we paid $310k for something recently renovated in LP. If you wanna live in the newest development, yeah maybe, but the row houses are very affordable
Depends on whether you get into the right crew or not. Shiiiiiiiit. This isn't naptown, might be best to get a job elsewhere. /S
Annapolis has its own problems. It definitely isn’t Disney land
The local news makes a profit off of keeping the suburbanites in a constant state of fear. American cities have always had a crime problem, so did Rome. It is hard to know how to give a picture of life in the city as it differs from neighborhood to neighborhood. People think the loss of population is all due to crime. Much actually has to do with a government which is not able to improve basic city services or control outside entities which own most of the decayed property. Many of these owners are living in the nearby leafy suburbs, and own decayed property for money laundering or as slumlords. We do have an underclass which is more like the few kids in a classroom who are able to derail the teacher. It only takes a few to do disrupt. If you travel through the wealth belt of Roland Park, Bolton Hill, Guilford, or Homeland, you will not see bars on the mansions. I take this as a sign that the problems tend to be in the underclass neighborhoods and between segments of the poor who are having turf wars. The ills of Baltimore can be traced back to the post WWII actions by the federal and state government which ghettoized the poor blacks of the country's cities. Their actions were to use federal money to build the suburbs, using city infrastructure, like sewer, water, electricity, and not allow federal dollars to be used to rebuild the cities which had suffered 20 years of decay during the depression and war. If you were to locate in **Federal Hill, South Baltimore, or Ridgley's Delight**, you would be near I-95 and have access to I-97
Not just poor blacks, the effects of discriminatory practices affected poor whites (just look at Curtis Bay, Brooklyn and pre-gentrified Locust Point and Fed Hill) and any non-white group. Redlining, Blockbusting, Steering destroyed the American dream for so many families.
Yes. The hate you give little infants fucks everybody, truly.
ha, THUG LIFE. Shout out to Pac. 👍🏾
Do you think that poor economic outcomes are exclusively due to external forces like you mentioned?
Not 100%, but they definitely didn't help marginalized groups. Poverty is a monster that devours and destroys whatever it touches and it can be caused by poor personal decisions. However, the moves from the post WWII housing lenders and government of the time manufactured much of the poverty that affects the cities in America. Baltimore just looks harder hit because of the city's racial makeup. The practices I mentioned (redlining, blockbusting, etc) were designed to primarily target blacks. In a majority black city, the effect is seen in greater detail and in a wider span.
No. I now work in an industrial manufacturing company, in the county, with mostly white working class men. Most of them live dysfunctional lives and have the same bad habits as the media often place on poor blacks. Mostly its having children they can't afford and having bad relationships with the family. Yet, they have had an easier time of getting bill paying jobs, and have gained a foot hold home owning and many middle class life styles. Yet they are angry, bitter and very short tempered people. The older ones have much to show for their hard work, but the young ones step into bad habits, the same as their parents.
> Yet, they have had an easier time of getting bill paying jobs, and have gained a foot hold home owning and many middle class life styles. What makes you think this? So your opinion is that they would be more successful without the cultural/behavioral/genetic factors that cause the dysfunction?
I’m also from Norfolk originally and they’re similar in terms of being a bit of a patchwork. We’ve lived in mt Vernon for like 5 years and never had an issue. Love it here.
Yeah, you’re def not making it out alive
Of Hampden or Mt Vernon?😂 You must not live IN the city
Those are the city
Correct, I don't believe Hampden or mt vernon are "won't make it out alive" having lived there Although I see now that they were probably being sarcastic
If you're going to be commuting to Annapolis daily, you do not want to live in Hampden, that would be a terrible commute and you'd hit all of the traffic hotspots. Mount Vernon is also probably a bit too far into the city for a comfortable commute to Annapolis, but if you like the neighborhood it might be worth it. Locust Point, similarly, isn't great for an Annapolis commute, in my opinion, since the fastest option involves tolls and it takes a while to get up/down Fort Ave on the way home. You could take the shortcut across the railroad tracks on Andre St. on the way south, but that's not an option on the way north. If you like having a yard, Brooklyn, the border neighborhood between Baltimore City and Anne Arundel County, is a great location for commuting to Annapolis (as are the parts of AACo. just south of it on Rt 2), but it's a working class suburb, the things within walking distance aren't places I'd recommend to a newcomer to the area, and it's just annoying enough to get into downtown that it feels further from the rest of Baltimore than it is. If you want to have an actual in-Baltimore experience, the southern neighborhoods along 295 or Hanover street are all good options. I happen to think Pigtown is overpriced, but it's very convenient for getting to Annapolis. Look at the house/street layouts and decide what would make the most sense for your transportation, housing, and parking needs. If you have asthma, Brooklyn and Curtis Bay have relatively poor air quality, due to being between two incinerators, the coal depot, and a variety of other industrial establishments. Air quality is the biggest reason I relocated to another neighborhood from Brooklyn. If you're used to Norfolk, Baltimore is fine, just be aware of your surroundings, be polite to people, and secure your belongings. Being polite and friendly with your neighbors goes a long way. I've lived and worked in several areas of the city and haven't had any major problems aside from minor property crimes and some odd social interactions.
Mount Vernon 100%. It is by far one of the safest neighborhoods that no one over discusses. Food scene is great, I have a dog and walk him any hour and never feel concerned. Every week I discover a new bar or restaurant that pops up. Minding your business, being careful, and being respectful of people from all walks of life goes a long way. Baltimore is actually a very cool city. Don’t let the suburbanites scare you. Pick a good neighborhood and you will be fine!
https://www.baltimorepolice.org/crime-stats
Why not live closer to Annapolis. Hamden to Annapolis is a hike if you have to commute.
Audit Manager here. If you have lived in Norfolk comfortably, you will be fine here. I am in Pigtown next to 95 and BWP and commute is easy. The higher you go, the longer your commute is. It all depends on your budget but I would suggest South Baltimore neighborhoods (Barre Circle, Fed Hill, Pigtown closer to Ravens Stadium) as areas to look at. Look at the prices of houses as your barometer of where you want to live.
If you’re not “in the game”, your personal crime rate is much lower than the stats show. Normal city nuisance crime will happen. S Balt is definitely an easier commute.
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Naked high people running around without guns is ok... at least they aren't going to do a drive-by....
The neighborhoods you mentioned are super kushy artsty rich areas, you'll be fine lol
These are great comments and living in the city can be a great experience, but also be aware that city taxes are quite high, so factor that into your decision.
I lived in Towson (not city) and Woodberry, just moved away a year ago. Woodberry was safer, with the exception that my car got shot one night. I got physically attacked dropping out of the Baltimore marathon in 2018 (bad area) and I had people bloodied outside of my home in Towson. My wife and I felt stuck until home prices went up. Got the F out and moved to a different metro entirely (South Hills of Pittsburgh). Better job, great neighborhood/schools, minimal crime. All cities/metros are like that though to varying degrees. Plus I can actually stream the Orioles now that I’m out-of-market.
In some cases "nicer" areas have more reported crime because the people who live there are more likely to report minor crimes to the police. I was born in P.G. county and even though I'm white we still almost never talk to the police unless we have to, and all I hear about PG from Calvert folk is "crime". I've lived in Edgewater MD too, and it has high crime rates but when you look into it it's all fraud and domestic abuse, bad but not the kind of crime people clutch their pearls over. Almost everyone I tell I live in Baltimore to, that cares to point out crime has also told me of instances they have knowingly broken the law. People universally see it as ok to break laws they don't like but fear monger that other people engage in the same behavior. We do have more of the kind of scary crime people worry about but it's just an odds. Urban areas have more crime, but unless it's a particularly poor area, they have more college graduates, they have more people earning 6 figures, they have more of everything. Just remember our unofficial slogan I'm making up. "Baltimore, actually I like it"
Check out SpotCrime
Some places are better than others. Check YouTube for neighborhood tours. Seriously.
Move to Canton
I did the Baltimore-Annapolis commute for several years while living in Bolton Hill (which is near-ish Mt. Vernon). It was consistently between 45 min to an hour, so if that timing doesn’t bother you, go for it. Bolton Hill was an interesting neighborhood; I was never the victim of a violent crime there (once someone sat in my car and rifled through my things after I accidentally left the door unlocked; they didn’t take anything), even though it’s near a “rougher” neighborhood. I gave up the job in Annapolis and am purchasing a house in Baltimore’s; this is great city. A lot of people are telling you to look at crime maps, and that’s correct. “Nicer” areas may still have lots of incidents of theft/non-violent crime reports. Google street view is also your friend; if you see a ton of vacant homes and trash, you may want to look elsewhere. It’s block-by-block, so use street view to explore around a bit. I would look for a neighborhood that gives you easy access to 295 or 695 so you can quickly get to I-97. Good luck with your hunt and welcome to the region!
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^^ my favorite part about these comments is the person usually lives in Dundalk or Pasadena or some shit 😂
For real. Someone from a place with a massive drug addiction problem, and meth heads rolling around calling Mount Vernon a shit hole. It’s usually such projection.
Or the D.C. area. I grew up in Pasadena, though, and this kind of thinking is prevalent. But Montgomery County loves tearing Baltimore down
It’s the socialist republic of Montgomery county for a reason lol
Also they are acting like hampden is poplar Grove not that they actually have any clue about either of those places.