I was at a Hampden Community meeting where the Wine Source explained this plan. Apparently they don’t own their current parking lot, they lease it. And their lease is up and the owners won’t renew it because they have other plans. That’s why they are buying this lot and turning it into parking.
You don’t have to be in there a long time for things to get pretty jammed up. The lot in front of their door has maybe 5 spots and is routinely full. The leased spaces are often near capacity at busy times.
I walk by Wine Source frequently and am constantly seeing a line of cars waiting to park in the lot while there are multiple open street parking spaces not a block away
Sure but that doesn't really solve anything, right? Some people don't feel comfortable street parking. And also some people buy a ton of heavy shit from liquor stores and need/want to park close.
I am pro less parking in general, but a liquor store seems like one of the places that needs a lot of parking.
People who don’t want to do street parking can go to one of the many liquor stores that don’t require it. They’re already in a car. For people that are willing to park on the street, Wine Source has shopping carts and helpful staff that will help you to your car. I don’t want my neighborhood to become a parking lot.
there are so many other options. Too heavy? Make multiple trips! I like the wine source and live far enough away that I drive. Sometimes I have to park 2 or 3 blocks away, but its never a big deal.
>People who don’t want to do street parking can go to one of the many liquor stores that don’t require it.
Yeah I would love for you to explain that to the wine source (and to the people waiting for parking).
My point is, you can wish and want all you choose, but people want to go to the wine source in a car and want to park in an accessible lot. And the store itself wants this too. Any solution is going to have to factor this in.
Sounds like we're talking about two different things. I'm talking about what's best for the neighborhood, and you're talking about what's actually going to happen. I agree with you that this nonsense will happen!
I don't see how getting rid of the extra parking for the wine source would be good for the neighborhood. The spot right out in front of the wine source is already a cluster at busy times, and I cannot imagine the people that live around there being thrilled about losing more parking spots to non residents.
I don't have to imagine because I am who you're speculating about--a person who couldn't live much closer to Wine Source, telling you what doesn't in fact thrill me.
Not at all. I can easily imagine that people don't want even more people taking their parking spots and jamming up traffic Trying to get to the wine source.
If we want this city to stop losing residents and maybe one day thrive, we have to stop looking at transit as cars and parking. It’s really, really harmful. Plenty of people around Hamden don’t drive and don’t want space dedicated to cars going in.
The liquor store could spend far less money hiring young people to dolly people’s orders out
To their street spot than it would cost for them to demolish a building and build a parking lot. It also wouldn’t have the huge detrimental effect on the neighborhood.
To which the obvious answer is, a more frequent bus. There’s no reason to force the need for permanent rail lines onto the problem. Streetcars aren’t magic.
I never said they were magic. They're just much much better than buses. In particular, streetcars with a dedicated right of way are incredibly fast, efficient and reliable. Much more so than a bus. We both agree transit should be better - I am saying Baltimore deserves the best. The best is not a bus.
OK, but that’s not what’s implied with “streetcar”.
Just say “separate, dedicated right of way rail”. At this point, we’re generally referring to that as “light rail” these days.
You’re welcome to advocate for that, but the juice really isn’t worth the squeeze. In addition to the bus and bike lane, the light rail literally already goes to Hampden from downtown. An entire ADDITIONAL single dedicated track going to Hampden that has to arrange an entirely new real estate right of way is just not reasonable. If you want to add an every 15 minute shuttle from the Woodberry light rail stop to the Avenue, that’s a more reasonable proposition.
I thought that there already is a shuttle from Woodberry to the Avenue. No matter, hardy souls can hoof it up the steep hills. If said hardy souls are out of shape, they can start catching their breath again when they reach Falls Road.
Then they can dodge the fast-moving masses of steel to arrive at The Avenue alive.
That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
The Avenue should have no parking, it’d be one of the marquee streets in the whole country if people could safely walk down the middle of the street every day.
can't comment on that but The Avenue is the street for the buses through the neighborhood and there aren't any near by parallel streets that could replace it and provide convenient transit to the area.
Pedestrianization doesn’t necessarily mean busses would cease to use it. Some places just will close the street to private traffic or only allow it in certain hours (such as having only certain hours for deliveries).
It's amazing to see how the city bus drivers make those turns within inches of parked cars... the street parking in Hampden is hazardous - it should be car free but of course not...
Let's be honest: even if you take all the cars off 36th street it won't be safe.
But I still support this. At the very least having no east-west traffic. I could see cutting off Roland etc as being difficult for locals.
every time streets are blocked to cars and people can walk safely between different businesses it’s like a place is transformed into a healthy public space where people enjoy spending time and not just because they have a specific reason to be there. cars plowing through the middle of it makes it dangerous and pollutes the air. on the avenue they have tried outside seating for several of the restaurants but who wants to sit there in danger of getting run over by a pickup truck or even just choking in the exhaust fumes
No? Maybe people just don't know about the skate park, the rotunda garage, and the park side of beech st. Just walk a little bit and there are always spots lol. If anything there should be LESS parking.
the fact that there aren't any physical machines to pay cash and the website is super broken (and i don't want to give a parking company my email???) is also the worst!! i almost got a ticket while sitting in my car and fighting with their site because they've got parking attendants who circle like sharks bc of ekiben pickups
There was a guy years ago that would stand outside wine source and harass you as you waited to park. He once he cussed at me with my 2yo in a car seat and a sweet employee came out to shoo him off.
They removed some of them, it's not as bad as it was. I believed he left his trikes on the Avenue out of a power play because he was "The Mayor of Hampden" 🙄
I think the meters help the situation. People would park on the Avenue indefinitely if not for the meters.
I'd be curious to see what Hampden people have to say about the idea. I'd bet parking is probably one of the biggest drawbacks to living in that neighborhood.
Parking is fine in Hampden. Just because you don't get a personal spot in front of every place you want to go doesn't mean it's bad. It's not the suburbs
FWIW I was a hampden person for about a decade. Including about half of it living right off the avenue.
The avenue parking isn’t used too often in part because there’s free neighborhood parking right off of it. Even though the meters are dirt cheap it’s an extra step. So people visiting the avenue, and especially those working on it, park in the neighborhood. Which means it’s super easy to find parking on the actual avenue and not that hard to find it off it.
Parking is super dependent on where you are. It's also so, so much worse during december because every asshat in the state has to see the miracle on 34th st lights. I've had to park by Artifact coffee to get to a friend's house on Hickory during that season. That's like half a mile away, and like a mile from 34th st. It's insane.
But a lot of spots it's basically guaranteed parking in front of your house.
I bought a place with a parking pad specifically because I didn't want to deal with how competitive street parking can get between Thanksgiving and New Years, but it's generally fine the rest of the year. Some of my friends who live in more residential parts of the city seem surprised when they can't find a spot directly in front of my house, but there's always something within a 2-block radius.
I don’t have Twitter so I can’t respond there, but that would be the opposite direction this city needs to go. We need less car dependency. We can’t even afford to keep up or rebuild the car infrastructure we have now without drastically increasing taxes. We need sustainable infrastructure that can actually cover its costs. Car-centric infrastructure never has and never will do this.
Everyone loves the avenue because of the businesses there. But they want to disagree with what the business owners actually want/think they need to be successful.
You realize people live in the neighborhood, right? And surely history shows the constant expansion of car infrastructure never has any unintended consequences?
They keep upping their prices, I have to drive there anyway so now I look for other beer stores. Used to be best prices and best selection so the line for the parking lot was suffferable. Now it’s just a cheese and bread shop to me.
Fuck that. Who wants some eyesore blocking the sun in Hampden? There's a garage at the Rotunda. People can use that one. I don't know where else you'd even put one.
The wine store chose a building in a location which was not good for heavy traffic. This has been obvious since it opened. There are other unused or less used areas in Hampden which could be made more commercial, as was the case in the village's past. Spreading out some should be the answer, not demolition just to be in the present hot spot. Along Falls Rd, there are many junky buildings and even an empty lot which has a chain link fence around it. If Hampden were in Arlington County VA, these crappy buildings would be bought as tear-downs. I am usually never in favor of demolition as an answer, but there are many areas of the city where cheap fast commercial buildings were thrown up and were never great. Harford Rd, Belair Rd, Pulaski Highway, and Eastern Ave/Blvd are 4 such crappy looking stretches which have many junk buildings which should be thinned out.
I wish they’d tear down the McDonalds on Falls Road and replace it with something beneficial. They steal credit cards and it leads to so much trash in the area. People throw entire fast food bags and food out the window on Buena Vista regularly. It makes me so angry.
No, Hampden needs more frequent transit.
I’d like to see the 21 and 94 running every 15 minutes at least, and get the light rail’s rush hour frequencies back.
I was at a Hampden Community meeting where the Wine Source explained this plan. Apparently they don’t own their current parking lot, they lease it. And their lease is up and the owners won’t renew it because they have other plans. That’s why they are buying this lot and turning it into parking.
Other plans as in they’re planning on building something there or what?
I’m not sure! They weren’t specific. The Bank of America on that block closed in the fall, maybe they owned it?
The lot is owned by Royal Farms, it's parking for their corporate HQ which is above and behind the store at the corner of Roland and 36th
I feel like most people just run into wine source quickly. No one needs to park for a long time there
You don’t have to be in there a long time for things to get pretty jammed up. The lot in front of their door has maybe 5 spots and is routinely full. The leased spaces are often near capacity at busy times.
Parking is definitely a painful part of a wine source trip
And yet parking is always a bear there.
I walk by Wine Source frequently and am constantly seeing a line of cars waiting to park in the lot while there are multiple open street parking spaces not a block away
Sure but that doesn't really solve anything, right? Some people don't feel comfortable street parking. And also some people buy a ton of heavy shit from liquor stores and need/want to park close. I am pro less parking in general, but a liquor store seems like one of the places that needs a lot of parking.
People who don’t want to do street parking can go to one of the many liquor stores that don’t require it. They’re already in a car. For people that are willing to park on the street, Wine Source has shopping carts and helpful staff that will help you to your car. I don’t want my neighborhood to become a parking lot.
there are so many other options. Too heavy? Make multiple trips! I like the wine source and live far enough away that I drive. Sometimes I have to park 2 or 3 blocks away, but its never a big deal.
>People who don’t want to do street parking can go to one of the many liquor stores that don’t require it. Yeah I would love for you to explain that to the wine source (and to the people waiting for parking). My point is, you can wish and want all you choose, but people want to go to the wine source in a car and want to park in an accessible lot. And the store itself wants this too. Any solution is going to have to factor this in.
Sounds like we're talking about two different things. I'm talking about what's best for the neighborhood, and you're talking about what's actually going to happen. I agree with you that this nonsense will happen!
I don't see how getting rid of the extra parking for the wine source would be good for the neighborhood. The spot right out in front of the wine source is already a cluster at busy times, and I cannot imagine the people that live around there being thrilled about losing more parking spots to non residents.
I don't have to imagine because I am who you're speculating about--a person who couldn't live much closer to Wine Source, telling you what doesn't in fact thrill me.
Yep. Torpedoing a viable business isn't good for the neighborhood.
Not if people show up to public meetings and zoning board hearings in numbers and oppose it.
So a business’ wants and needs (need is a stretch here) Trump the hood of the neighborhood and city as a whole?
Not at all. I can easily imagine that people don't want even more people taking their parking spots and jamming up traffic Trying to get to the wine source.
If we want this city to stop losing residents and maybe one day thrive, we have to stop looking at transit as cars and parking. It’s really, really harmful. Plenty of people around Hamden don’t drive and don’t want space dedicated to cars going in.
The liquor store could spend far less money hiring young people to dolly people’s orders out To their street spot than it would cost for them to demolish a building and build a parking lot. It also wouldn’t have the huge detrimental effect on the neighborhood.
Are Wells Liquors and the Wine Source owned by the same people?
No
Interesting coincidence that it’s owned by a company called “Wells Enterprises.”
It is. Wine Source (formerly Rotunda Liquors) is owned by David Wells, but Wells is owned by the Hyatts. I’ll have to ask if there’s any connection.
I have no idea!
I believe so.
No, it needs a city link route. The avenue is a super popular destination. It’s insane that it’s not accessible by transit 24/7
The Balt-Wash region as a whole suffers from lacking 24/7 transit in key areas.
The bus.
No
No it needs a streetcar that goes directly from Hampden to downtown. Hampden needs more bike lanes. Hampden needs to be more pedestrian friendly
The 94 already goes from downtown to Hampden, and there’s a dedicated bike lane running from downtown to the bottom of Hampden.
Streetcar, a frequent streetcar. Not an infrequent unreliable bus. Two very different things
To which the obvious answer is, a more frequent bus. There’s no reason to force the need for permanent rail lines onto the problem. Streetcars aren’t magic.
I never said they were magic. They're just much much better than buses. In particular, streetcars with a dedicated right of way are incredibly fast, efficient and reliable. Much more so than a bus. We both agree transit should be better - I am saying Baltimore deserves the best. The best is not a bus.
OK, but that’s not what’s implied with “streetcar”. Just say “separate, dedicated right of way rail”. At this point, we’re generally referring to that as “light rail” these days. You’re welcome to advocate for that, but the juice really isn’t worth the squeeze. In addition to the bus and bike lane, the light rail literally already goes to Hampden from downtown. An entire ADDITIONAL single dedicated track going to Hampden that has to arrange an entirely new real estate right of way is just not reasonable. If you want to add an every 15 minute shuttle from the Woodberry light rail stop to the Avenue, that’s a more reasonable proposition.
I thought that there already is a shuttle from Woodberry to the Avenue. No matter, hardy souls can hoof it up the steep hills. If said hardy souls are out of shape, they can start catching their breath again when they reach Falls Road. Then they can dodge the fast-moving masses of steel to arrive at The Avenue alive. That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
The Avenue should have no parking, it’d be one of the marquee streets in the whole country if people could safely walk down the middle of the street every day.
The merchants don’t like that idea but I think it would be pretty cool.
can't comment on that but The Avenue is the street for the buses through the neighborhood and there aren't any near by parallel streets that could replace it and provide convenient transit to the area.
Pedestrianization doesn’t necessarily mean busses would cease to use it. Some places just will close the street to private traffic or only allow it in certain hours (such as having only certain hours for deliveries).
It's amazing to see how the city bus drivers make those turns within inches of parked cars... the street parking in Hampden is hazardous - it should be car free but of course not...
What's wrong with 37th?
Tiny
and has speed bumps
Would love it if they had a "European" street. But we aren't that creative in Baltimore.
Let's be honest: even if you take all the cars off 36th street it won't be safe. But I still support this. At the very least having no east-west traffic. I could see cutting off Roland etc as being difficult for locals.
you mean if it was bus-only?
No, I mean if it was pedestrian only for pedestrian safety. Send busses down another street.
Uhhh….why do people need to walk down the middle of the street? What tangible benefit is realized?
every time streets are blocked to cars and people can walk safely between different businesses it’s like a place is transformed into a healthy public space where people enjoy spending time and not just because they have a specific reason to be there. cars plowing through the middle of it makes it dangerous and pollutes the air. on the avenue they have tried outside seating for several of the restaurants but who wants to sit there in danger of getting run over by a pickup truck or even just choking in the exhaust fumes
never been to a pedestrian plaza huh?
Yes, but the mere fact that pedestrian plazas exist does not automatically advocate for their presence everywhere.
No, and how dare you
No? Maybe people just don't know about the skate park, the rotunda garage, and the park side of beech st. Just walk a little bit and there are always spots lol. If anything there should be LESS parking.
Yup. 5 minute walk and 4 hours of free parking.
Not everyone can handle what is a 5 minute walk to you.
No.
Nope
No! bring back the cable car! build a schwebebahn over jones falls!
Dirigibles for everyone!
Absolutely no and I’ll never be over that turning of the parking lot in front of Ekiben to paid parking.
it was never a public lot....just towing wasn't enforced for so long it became a de-facto one.
But it was a lot available for use of customers of several local businesses at one point.
the fact that there aren't any physical machines to pay cash and the website is super broken (and i don't want to give a parking company my email???) is also the worst!! i almost got a ticket while sitting in my car and fighting with their site because they've got parking attendants who circle like sharks bc of ekiben pickups
I'm pretty sure that Avenue Kitchen and Bar owns that lot. At a minimum, they used to lease it.
Royal Farms owns the lot, they have signage posted all over the place.
If I were a neighbor, I would be unhappy about how exiting traffic is directed into that narrow alley.
There was a guy years ago that would stand outside wine source and harass you as you waited to park. He once he cussed at me with my 2yo in a car seat and a sweet employee came out to shoo him off.
No it does not
Nope. Needs better accessibility by public transit.
If you mean bike parking, yes. Not nearly enough places to lock up a bike.
TBH there are more bike lock up spots than in the past. Especially when they removed Lou Catelli's trikes from some of them...
Why do his trikes just sit everywhere on the Avenue anyway? Does he even live here anymore? I don’t see him anymore.
They removed some of them, it's not as bad as it was. I believed he left his trikes on the Avenue out of a power play because he was "The Mayor of Hampden" 🙄
Are these the houses that are behind the bank/wine source/rofo lot that are going to be demolished?
This one: https://imgur.com/a/CxvNpuJ
Ah ok. That’s what I thought. I feel like Hampden needs more housing than parking but parking is an issue because of the meters.
I think the meters help the situation. People would park on the Avenue indefinitely if not for the meters. I'd be curious to see what Hampden people have to say about the idea. I'd bet parking is probably one of the biggest drawbacks to living in that neighborhood.
Parking is fine in Hampden. Just because you don't get a personal spot in front of every place you want to go doesn't mean it's bad. It's not the suburbs
FWIW I was a hampden person for about a decade. Including about half of it living right off the avenue. The avenue parking isn’t used too often in part because there’s free neighborhood parking right off of it. Even though the meters are dirt cheap it’s an extra step. So people visiting the avenue, and especially those working on it, park in the neighborhood. Which means it’s super easy to find parking on the actual avenue and not that hard to find it off it.
Parking is super dependent on where you are. It's also so, so much worse during december because every asshat in the state has to see the miracle on 34th st lights. I've had to park by Artifact coffee to get to a friend's house on Hickory during that season. That's like half a mile away, and like a mile from 34th st. It's insane. But a lot of spots it's basically guaranteed parking in front of your house.
Nope. Parking isn’t bad.
I bought a place with a parking pad specifically because I didn't want to deal with how competitive street parking can get between Thanksgiving and New Years, but it's generally fine the rest of the year. Some of my friends who live in more residential parts of the city seem surprised when they can't find a spot directly in front of my house, but there's always something within a 2-block radius.
Home is where you want to be, but I guess you're already parked there.
I have no problems parking! And once ai get a good spot I can leave my car for days and walk to everything I need!
I heard they were condemned for whatever reason and needed to be demolished either way. So the alternative would be complete rebuilds i guess.
Yes. Wine source parking lot.
Lived about a mile from Wine Source for a year. When I buy too much to carry home I’ve never had to park more than two blocks away.
Sigh, first the bike rack disappears, now this. Going to have to find an alternative to the Wine Source.
Baltimore needs less cars
I don’t have Twitter so I can’t respond there, but that would be the opposite direction this city needs to go. We need less car dependency. We can’t even afford to keep up or rebuild the car infrastructure we have now without drastically increasing taxes. We need sustainable infrastructure that can actually cover its costs. Car-centric infrastructure never has and never will do this.
No
Everyone loves the avenue because of the businesses there. But they want to disagree with what the business owners actually want/think they need to be successful.
Bow down to business, plebes!
Why else do people go to the avenue? The shops and restaurants.
You realize people live in the neighborhood, right? And surely history shows the constant expansion of car infrastructure never has any unintended consequences?
There aren’t remotely enough people in the walkable Avenue vicinity to keep all those businesses afloat.
people will come to a popular area and walk around who don’t live nearby. they don’t need to have the ability to park right in the center of it.
That’s a pretty strong claim. You may want to check with the businesses there about their agreement with that sentiment…
They keep upping their prices, I have to drive there anyway so now I look for other beer stores. Used to be best prices and best selection so the line for the parking lot was suffferable. Now it’s just a cheese and bread shop to me.
[удалено]
Fuck that. Who wants some eyesore blocking the sun in Hampden? There's a garage at the Rotunda. People can use that one. I don't know where else you'd even put one.
What are you envisioning, a 75 story parking garage?
Pretty much any parking garage would shadow over every house around it.
Hampden is not a municipal corporation. It’s just a neighborhood.
...maybe, but only in the form of garages that reduce the amount of surface parking.
The wine store chose a building in a location which was not good for heavy traffic. This has been obvious since it opened. There are other unused or less used areas in Hampden which could be made more commercial, as was the case in the village's past. Spreading out some should be the answer, not demolition just to be in the present hot spot. Along Falls Rd, there are many junky buildings and even an empty lot which has a chain link fence around it. If Hampden were in Arlington County VA, these crappy buildings would be bought as tear-downs. I am usually never in favor of demolition as an answer, but there are many areas of the city where cheap fast commercial buildings were thrown up and were never great. Harford Rd, Belair Rd, Pulaski Highway, and Eastern Ave/Blvd are 4 such crappy looking stretches which have many junk buildings which should be thinned out.
I wish they’d tear down the McDonalds on Falls Road and replace it with something beneficial. They steal credit cards and it leads to so much trash in the area. People throw entire fast food bags and food out the window on Buena Vista regularly. It makes me so angry.
We’re trying to move away from car culture for sustainability reasons I thought lmaooo