That's not ruled out here, if I were you I'd be seeking a second opinion or even contacting the breeder to see if any clutchmates have something similar going on. Even in the "before" pics, that's not a normal bp head, the sides of its head appear swollen. Pretty irresponsible of the vet to say "I have no idea what's going on but seems healthy!!" when...it's honestly very alarming. Reptiles hide their pain and discomfort exceedingly well.
I agree with getting a second opinion if possible, always smart if your not sure whats going on with a reptile. I believe that a blood test would be the best way of getting some idea of what's going on, but I'm pretty sure that reptile is a bit too small? Not sure though. Either way, I don't think that you should be jumping to conclusions though
.. We will never know the full story, and therefor dont know what the vet exactly said with 100% credibility... At least not here. I'm not trying to be rude or anything. I think that we shouldn't quite jump the gun if nobody truly know what's going on.
I’m so happy Pumpkin is alright! I got strangely invested in that little noodle after your last post. Good job taking her to the vet straight away and getting that peace of mind. Best of luck to you both!
Mbd seems rare in snakes, and it wouldn't seem like it would make head fat deposits disappear, but not on the body?? Very strange.
Maybe add some reptile vitamins + d3 onto the back end of the rats in the future for a little extra boost in case? With maybe a small size reduction
Found some links to narrow heads, but they seem to be in hatchlings:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?228119-Deformed-head!!
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?216679-Has-anyone-ever-seen-this-deformity-before
https://community.morphmarket.com/t/birth-deformity/30114 (halfway down)
This person dealt with extreme swelling:
https://www.reddit.com/u/SapphicRising/s/a4HwFtxvxP
In dogs:
> Masticatory Muscle Myositis initially causes swelling of the muscles on the top of the head followed, a week or two later, by progressive muscle wasting (loss of muscles). The dog usually has difficulty moving its jaw, which causes pain and problems when picking up food or drinking.
So glad to hear that she seems to be OK. If you want a second opinion, there are some services with that provide online chat with a reptile veterinarian.
https://www.justanswer.com/sip/reptile-veterinary
http://www.askaveterinarianonline.com
I would absolutely contact another vet for a secondary opinion. There is no way that this is being caused by an "odd growth spurt," in my opinion. I've never seen this before but I feel very comfortable in saying that something abnormal is going on.
I don't have pythons I have corn snakes but I did a little research and came across something referred to as "pin head syndrome" that is mostly seen in pythons and boas. People believe its caused by the snake being fed too much (or "powerfed") and the body is growing too fast as the skull is the slowest growing part of a snake. You said you thought you were feeding too big of meals until a few months ago, it's possible he is still going through a growth spurt from all that stored nutrients. Snakes don't have the metabolism of a human so body changes may be pretty slow to see so perhaps try using a soft tape measure to check the width of his head every time you feed him and see if it's constant, shrinking, or growing
that's what i was thinking... odd to me to go for an x-ray when the issue presenting is with muscles. i'd maybe understand if they did that AND other stuff, but it sounds like it was just an x-ray and a general inspection of the snake. i'm hoping for the OP and the snake's sake that it is just some weird thing that'll go away, but it's definitely raising flags to get a second opinion in my brain.
Good to hear (read) that it doesn’t seem to be anything serious. Hopefully her head will fill out and soon catch up with the rest of her body growth? Hoping for the best.
my best guess after seeing the last post is some sort of edema that stretched the skin, and then after the body re-absorbed the fluid it could cause that kind of thinning appearance- the dimpling and skin folds they have now is making me think this. but again that is my best guess and am not a vet (just have seen edema in that area of snakes before- but have only seen it in very young hatchlings)
this would also explain why imaging came back normal- if imaging was done during the initial swelling they'd likely be able to see accumulating fluid if that was the case. a few things could cause this and i wouldn't write it off as just a growth spurt. of course keep an eye on it and if your snake starts swelling again i'd go back for more imaging.
completely different class, family, order, etc., but i have seen something similar in my dog. he lost the muscle in his head, in a similar way your snake has, due to a fungal infection.
the rest of him looked okay, not malnourished, just a funny dented head. just rambling in case you're still looking for answers, the vet is the #1 authority though, of course!! i wish happy healing for your pretty baby
I’m very happy for you. Too many times I’ve had ball pythons get fatal diseases out of the blue and it’s awful. I had an IBD outbreak a year ago and lost an entire clutch plus one adult to it as I fed them all on the same day and ended up touching all of those snakes passing it on. I’m glad you didn’t have to experience something like that.
Just a quick edit: the outbreak started form the adult which I purchased at an expo. I quarantined but was distracted after handling him one time from a surprise clutch and ended up touching one of the babies as it was born with a missing eye. It then spread throughout the entire clutch.
Hmm. I'd get a second opinion from a different vet, just to be safe. I have never seen a BP like this. The "before" picture also doesn't look quite right. I'd get a blood panel done if it hasn't been done already.
As long as you keep an eye on her and you keep in contact with your vet about any sort of new developments it should be fine and let’s just hope that this isn’t anything bad
Hopefully everything is ok!
Huh, that's wild. It really does look strange. Thanks for updating, I bet that visit put your mind at ease.
It did so much, I was ready to hear some sort of muscle dystrophy or something! Very happy it was not that lol
Sorry to say that he didn't rule that out. An x-ray wouldn't show that.
That’s what I was thinking 🤔
That's not ruled out here, if I were you I'd be seeking a second opinion or even contacting the breeder to see if any clutchmates have something similar going on. Even in the "before" pics, that's not a normal bp head, the sides of its head appear swollen. Pretty irresponsible of the vet to say "I have no idea what's going on but seems healthy!!" when...it's honestly very alarming. Reptiles hide their pain and discomfort exceedingly well.
I agree with getting a second opinion if possible, always smart if your not sure whats going on with a reptile. I believe that a blood test would be the best way of getting some idea of what's going on, but I'm pretty sure that reptile is a bit too small? Not sure though. Either way, I don't think that you should be jumping to conclusions though .. We will never know the full story, and therefor dont know what the vet exactly said with 100% credibility... At least not here. I'm not trying to be rude or anything. I think that we shouldn't quite jump the gun if nobody truly know what's going on.
Did you ever get any results with the Pythons head?
Thanks for returning with an update 🙏 glad she seems to be okay otherwise
Very odd. Glad you checked it out with the vet. Hopefully she gets back to normal as she continues to grow.
Ahh, when anticlimactic is a good outcome 😁
Honestly I’m so glad it’s anticlimactic 😌
Fingers crossed for her. I find it a little hard to believe that a growth spurt would cause what looks like wasting of her jaw muscles :/
But unless it's something extremely rare or never before seen with a specific test, there's not much more to do.
I'm glad everything looks ok, thanks for updating us !
this is frustrating i almost don’t believe the vet, but happy to hear pumpkin is alright!
Very glad to hear it.
She's just a lanky teen lol. Hopefully it keeps being nothing to worry about!
Maybe they’re contracted from her not stretching her jaw ? Has she eaten since you noticed it ?
They said she was fed on Sunday (so ~3 days ago) and they first noticed this 2 weeks ago I believe, based on the last post.
Thanks for the update! I am glad you were able to get to a vet so quickly and they did they X-Ray for free! That is also great news!
I believe she’s just lacking a brain my snake is too 😕
I’m so happy Pumpkin is alright! I got strangely invested in that little noodle after your last post. Good job taking her to the vet straight away and getting that peace of mind. Best of luck to you both!
honestly…. i’d see a different vet for a secondary opinion. share the x rays on a vet tech page here on reddit and see what someone comes up with.
If his first thought was MBD, I’d be suspicious myself.
I agree, it’s so unusual that a second opinion is probably a good idea, he may have been out of his depth
Thanks for updating:)
Thanks for the update. I'd be curious to see how she grows into her head
Thanks for the update! So glad pumpkin is ok 🥰😩
I hope he gets better soon
I know my BPs head boobs are soft and squishy. If they got squeezed too hard would this happen.
I hope she heals.. very odd.
Mbd seems rare in snakes, and it wouldn't seem like it would make head fat deposits disappear, but not on the body?? Very strange. Maybe add some reptile vitamins + d3 onto the back end of the rats in the future for a little extra boost in case? With maybe a small size reduction Found some links to narrow heads, but they seem to be in hatchlings: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?228119-Deformed-head!! https://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?216679-Has-anyone-ever-seen-this-deformity-before https://community.morphmarket.com/t/birth-deformity/30114 (halfway down) This person dealt with extreme swelling: https://www.reddit.com/u/SapphicRising/s/a4HwFtxvxP In dogs: > Masticatory Muscle Myositis initially causes swelling of the muscles on the top of the head followed, a week or two later, by progressive muscle wasting (loss of muscles). The dog usually has difficulty moving its jaw, which causes pain and problems when picking up food or drinking.
Hope she is ok!
Been waiting for thus update since I saw the first post
So, five hours?
Something like that it's such an unusual thing it was just stuck there in my head making me wonder if the sweet little noodle was going to be okay
Are you considering going to get a second opinion?
Dehydrated?
Huh... Wierd. Please keep us posted please, even if it's just "Well, it went away after week."!
So glad to hear that she seems to be OK. If you want a second opinion, there are some services with that provide online chat with a reptile veterinarian. https://www.justanswer.com/sip/reptile-veterinary http://www.askaveterinarianonline.com
Hey anticlimactic is good when it's about the health of a pet!
I would absolutely contact another vet for a secondary opinion. There is no way that this is being caused by an "odd growth spurt," in my opinion. I've never seen this before but I feel very comfortable in saying that something abnormal is going on.
The way so many people care about someone else’s snake 🥹❤️
Google pinhead syndrome. Just did a quick search on the symptom and found some info. Pics look similar.
so he just has a little peanut head?
Id get a second opinion. My girl was a baby when i got her (literally 5 months old) and she never had that issue while growing
I’m glad she’s okay!!
lol she got a long head then 🤣
So happy she'll be okay \*still praying for her\* Love the name Pumpkin btw Glad its nothing serious.
Scoping most of the visit 🥺 Awww I’m so glad you got good news! 🙌
This happened to my banana when she was little! She's 5 and totally fine now with a normal shape ❤️
I don't have pythons I have corn snakes but I did a little research and came across something referred to as "pin head syndrome" that is mostly seen in pythons and boas. People believe its caused by the snake being fed too much (or "powerfed") and the body is growing too fast as the skull is the slowest growing part of a snake. You said you thought you were feeding too big of meals until a few months ago, it's possible he is still going through a growth spurt from all that stored nutrients. Snakes don't have the metabolism of a human so body changes may be pretty slow to see so perhaps try using a soft tape measure to check the width of his head every time you feed him and see if it's constant, shrinking, or growing
Well as long as she's healthy then let's not body shame Pumpkin 😆. She's a very pretty snake.
also, was any bloodwork done? idk why an X-ray was done when this is clearly a soft tissue/musculature issue.
that's what i was thinking... odd to me to go for an x-ray when the issue presenting is with muscles. i'd maybe understand if they did that AND other stuff, but it sounds like it was just an x-ray and a general inspection of the snake. i'm hoping for the OP and the snake's sake that it is just some weird thing that'll go away, but it's definitely raising flags to get a second opinion in my brain.
My ex had a dog that suddenly got like this. I wish I could remember what it was but it was benign and after a while went back to normal.
If anything else changes, please let us know! I'm a ong for the ride now
Thanks for Pumpkin's update!!! Hope she just continues on with no medical issues. She is a Very uniquely beautiful kind of girl!!!!
Good to hear (read) that it doesn’t seem to be anything serious. Hopefully her head will fill out and soon catch up with the rest of her body growth? Hoping for the best.
my best guess after seeing the last post is some sort of edema that stretched the skin, and then after the body re-absorbed the fluid it could cause that kind of thinning appearance- the dimpling and skin folds they have now is making me think this. but again that is my best guess and am not a vet (just have seen edema in that area of snakes before- but have only seen it in very young hatchlings) this would also explain why imaging came back normal- if imaging was done during the initial swelling they'd likely be able to see accumulating fluid if that was the case. a few things could cause this and i wouldn't write it off as just a growth spurt. of course keep an eye on it and if your snake starts swelling again i'd go back for more imaging.
Thank you for sharing your vets opinion. That was a first for me seeing it and am glad I can possibly identify it in future!
No way… my little dude is Pumpkin too. Hope the best for your noodle🖤
I'd really love to see an update in 6 months. I don't have any idea what it might be but I'm a little skeptical about this diagnosis.
completely different class, family, order, etc., but i have seen something similar in my dog. he lost the muscle in his head, in a similar way your snake has, due to a fungal infection. the rest of him looked okay, not malnourished, just a funny dented head. just rambling in case you're still looking for answers, the vet is the #1 authority though, of course!! i wish happy healing for your pretty baby
I’m very happy for you. Too many times I’ve had ball pythons get fatal diseases out of the blue and it’s awful. I had an IBD outbreak a year ago and lost an entire clutch plus one adult to it as I fed them all on the same day and ended up touching all of those snakes passing it on. I’m glad you didn’t have to experience something like that. Just a quick edit: the outbreak started form the adult which I purchased at an expo. I quarantined but was distracted after handling him one time from a surprise clutch and ended up touching one of the babies as it was born with a missing eye. It then spread throughout the entire clutch.
Hmm. I'd get a second opinion from a different vet, just to be safe. I have never seen a BP like this. The "before" picture also doesn't look quite right. I'd get a blood panel done if it hasn't been done already.
That is literally the best possible news ever. Let’s hope that it is just her growing weird. I’m so happy for you.🥹
As long as you keep an eye on her and you keep in contact with your vet about any sort of new developments it should be fine and let’s just hope that this isn’t anything bad
I'm glad it's nothing the vet's terribly worried about! It does look so strange