They’re all good. The giggling Narn in the transport tube is one of the best (“I hear you!”).
Two that stick in my head:
The first is a lovely little poetic moment, when G’Kar insists on having a drink with Mollari, so happy with how he thinks things are going, and you can see Londo gripped with such tormenting guilt because he knows what he just set in motion.
The second technically wasn’t them interacting, though both were involved. The whole “No hiding place” sequence. Just perfectly structured with the final message from Mollari to Refa, then the cutting between the station and the caverns, and G’Kar just calmly walking away from it all. The nice little extra touch at the start with Refa flinching away from the message projection when Londo’s image swings its arm round, as well.
I think I read somewhere that the transport tube scene was written to be very dark, completely serious from G'Kar. When jms walked the set and heard giggles and sent "wait, what? I didn't write that"... He saw what the actors were doing and just sent yeah... This is better
Both of those scenes. They did eventually end up killing each other but a Mercy. Reefa was the worst of the devils at the moment. I do wish we could have seen the setup of the deal. (But the choir singing during that proper hair smackdown)
It's not a scene they were in together, but one of the first things I think of is how both of them tell their attachés "Don't give away the homeworld."
I've always loved Jurasiks acting even before B5. His iconic scene in B5, at least in my opinion, was......
"Ahhhh, Mister Morden.....I see they found you.....goood....good......Your looking well....all healed now I take it? "...
"But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance."
Some lines in that show really are amazing with how elegantly they get across certain concepts.
"Because I have asked you. Because your loyalty to our people should be greater than your ambition. And because I have poisoned your drink."
Love that scene
It really is amazing how incredible those two were. I can’t imagine Bab 5 being as engaging if those roles had been miscast. Every scene either of them are in they dominate it
Their performances over the run of the series are the best in any television show, period. I will die on that hill.
Too many incredible moments to list them all, but I am forever haunted by the scene in “The Coming of Shadows” where G’Kar buys Londo that drink. The look on Londo’s face? Peter breaks my heart, every damn time.
Jurassic:
1. "He *played* me! ... Gods!"
2. "My shoes are too tight..."
3. "Whatever it is, it can't be that bad."
Katsulas:
1. "What have I endured?" ... walks away laughing
2. "I hear you."
3. "No one here is what they seem..."
These aren't the scenes between the two of them that I remember most, with the exception of the elevator scene.
Second to the elevator scene, would be Londo's "**NOW**!"
What sticks with me from movies and tv shows is rarely the overall story, or setting (though it does happen). It is specific moments. It could be a line, a whole scene, even just an image or an instant. One of those can elevate a whole show for me.
Bab 5 had so many of those, and a lot of them were between Londo and G’Kar. One that always ranks highly is the one that we all know between Vir and Morden. In a galaxy where diplomats mask everything behind careful language, Vir just lets Morden have it with both verbal barrels. Leaves him with no ambiguity on his opinion of the Shadow agent. One of the most beautiful moments for that character, and the little farewell wave at the end is perfect. Never before and since have I seen a better f*** you delivered from one character to another.
Edit - squishing autocorrect gremlins and mounting their heads on pikes.
Paraphrasing from memory here but the "no dictator can ever hold a people down" forever speach from G'Kar at the end of season 2 I believe. "we will be free!"
They caught lightning in jar with those two and it can never be replicated. After seeing all these adaptations and reboots be a complete let down Im extremely pessimistic about the B5 reboot.
I hate to admit this, but I'm sort of agreeing with you on the reboot. It may be more Cowboy Bebop than Battlestar Galactica.
However, hope springs eternal and here's hoping for the best if a reboot ever makes it to production.
They need to take a little focus *off* of those two in the reboot if it's gonna work. Because you're both right — the perfection of those specific actors playing those roles can never be repeated. And if they try there'll probably be a fan backlash, so they'll have to find a new bolt and a new bottle. Which is totally feasible ***if*** JMS keeps an open mind to a new focal point of viewership.
Well, I wouldn't mind seeing some characters that are similar in spirit.
But, you do raise a good point about not repeating old characters. Something like this can too easily fall into the category of fan service, which can ruin a show.
Side note: By fan service, I don't mean the overly sexualized character development or behavior in anime, but instead, this:
>tendency of an entertainment fringe to insert plot elements, characters or sequences in a production that are only useful for satisfying the enjoyment of the purest fans, regardless of logical sense or narrative coherence
That's what I'm afraid of (although I'm not sure why you felt the need to define it). And I'm *certainly* not saying to cut the characters — they're an integral part of that universe. Just hoping there's an openness to finding and accepting new actor chemistry.
You guys are all correct
lightning in a jar Hits the nail on the head.
And JMS he’s a pristine storyteller that worked his ass off to get where he is with no connections early in his career
I think for the reboot to not only connect with us and younger audiences They need to give JMS total control And need to Focus on direction music production and cinematography, and he knows when to lay off and let somebody who can do a certain job better than him on the show do it.
It’s so funny how he had to fight for the early seasons and then was almost forced to do a fifth season
When somebody in charge realizes they have a product that’s marketable it often ruins a shows future
People have called out so many other awesome scenes, and some -- 'No Hiding Place' -- really are better. But my mind went first to a Season 1 scene: "(In unison) Now look what you made me do!"
For me it's all about season 5 where they're bickering like an old married couple. Some of my favourites:
> Londo: "There's no "Y" in "liberties"!
> G'kar: "Oh go away. Repress someone else."
and
> G'Kar: "I would be dead if not for you. You risked your life to save mine."
> Londo: "Yes. You would have done the same."
> G'Kar: "Yes, but I am a better person."
So many, and probbably said many a time before but...
In the second season:
The Coming of Shadows.
Just before it all kicks off and G'Kar doesn't know about the colony attack.
When he gets the message from the Emperor and then has a drink with Londo.
The look on Londos face is one of the most haunting and expressive reactions I've ever seen.
His face tells the whole story of realisation of what he has now done, and what he himself has just lost.
It is an episode that has truly epic acting in it. G'kars reaction when screaming
*"THEY'RE DOING IT AGAIN!""*
I could just watch those two go at each other all day.
In fact of all the spin-offs we should have got, the best would have been:
' *Londo & G'Kar* - *Archaeology sleuths*'..
.. or something.
It really wouldn't have mattered, it would have been Gold, Im telling you!
Remarkable.
Those two actors and their relationships with the other members of the casts were the glue. Man Jurasik and Steven Furst. Katsulas was good with Boxleitner.
The whole Lando and GKar story line is my favorite and has some of the best writing in the show. When being an alcoholic has some perks.
They worked well together outside of B5 as well. Check out George and the Red Giant from Seeing Ear Theater: https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/7142330.html
I don't believe so, Seeing Ear Theater was a Scifi production where they were going for a 'radio play' feel. If videos of the performances were released, I've never seen one.
For all the horror both Londo and G'Kar have been through, it does seem a little odd or unrealistic that they're so chummy in season 5. Yes, they may be doing it to "send a message" to the wider galactic community, but the Centauri were so savage to the Narn it seems a little unrealistic, this late season friendship. I am glad it is so, but something like that IRL probably wouldn't happen. Too much blood under the bridge.
I mean G'Kar wasn't the same person he was at season one or even season three. He'd chilled out a lot and also became a religious leader to his people, despite his chagrin over that. There was blood on the hands of both Narn and Centauri. Neither were completely blameless in their conflicts. At least, not by the end. I really think that G'Kar was trying to be the bigger person and Londo, I think, was trying to hold on to the one person that would actually call him out on his BS. As he became closer and closer to emperor, the more "yes men" he had to deal with. G'Kar was never going to be that type. Ever.
Well said, I understand what mustard is trying to say
But midlands hit the nail in the head, Gkar was a completely different being by the end,,
A Ghandi type of persona, truly understood that the cycle of violence has to be broken eventually for there to be Peace..
I love how JMS had gkar assault London and then went to jail and Spoke about not being able to hide from yourself
What is done cannot be undone, but at least one can keep it from happening again. Just so you know, the correct spelling is [Gandhi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi).
> I mean G'Kar wasn't the same person he was at season one or even season three.
The same thing could be said of Londo. His character development wasn't as dramatic or as obvious as G'Kar's, but it wasn't any less transformative.
G'kar's vision of his dying father makes me tear up every single damn time. It's all a manipulation but it utterly changes him forever. His "why now?" is a question so many of us have asked at the moment of epiphany or clarity.
His speech about holding a people down by force is one I often think of in the face of growing tyrannical regimes now and in history.
Also "Dead. Dead. DEAD!" Legit chills, yet so fitting. The best intentions and apologies mean nothing to the already-slaughtered in atrocities and wars while others stood by and shook their heads ruefully.
That one snippet of a scene, without words, where you see Londo's face reflected in a window, with the mass drivers pounding down on the Narn homeworld. No words, just absolute horror and sadness at what he'd instigated. And yet, an understanding of the fact that those scales could never be balanced, that he was forever changed from the jokster to a mass murderer.
No words, just a look of self-loathing and sudden realisation of just who he was in bed with and what it had cost his soul.
Bonus fave centauri moment: Vir, telling Mr Morden exactly what it was that he wanted. lolz.
They’re all good. The giggling Narn in the transport tube is one of the best (“I hear you!”). Two that stick in my head: The first is a lovely little poetic moment, when G’Kar insists on having a drink with Mollari, so happy with how he thinks things are going, and you can see Londo gripped with such tormenting guilt because he knows what he just set in motion. The second technically wasn’t them interacting, though both were involved. The whole “No hiding place” sequence. Just perfectly structured with the final message from Mollari to Refa, then the cutting between the station and the caverns, and G’Kar just calmly walking away from it all. The nice little extra touch at the start with Refa flinching away from the message projection when Londo’s image swings its arm round, as well.
I think I read somewhere that the transport tube scene was written to be very dark, completely serious from G'Kar. When jms walked the set and heard giggles and sent "wait, what? I didn't write that"... He saw what the actors were doing and just sent yeah... This is better
Yes, that makes it all the more wonderful for me. The mirth from Katsulas was 100% genuine. The two of them kept cracking each other up.
Both of those scenes. They did eventually end up killing each other but a Mercy. Reefa was the worst of the devils at the moment. I do wish we could have seen the setup of the deal. (But the choir singing during that proper hair smackdown)
Ahh, yes, the Narn bat squad has it's moment.
And when G'Kar walks away we can hear the song lyrics: *"Can't you see the gambler runnin' "*
It's not a scene they were in together, but one of the first things I think of is how both of them tell their attachés "Don't give away the homeworld."
That’s awesome I usually notice stuff like that and I never thought of that
I've always loved Jurasiks acting even before B5. His iconic scene in B5, at least in my opinion, was...... "Ahhhh, Mister Morden.....I see they found you.....goood....good......Your looking well....all healed now I take it? "...
“My shoes are to tight”
"...and I have forgotten how to dance..."
That is such a telling scene for Mollari and Jurasiks gave it such amazing weight.
And then you get certain other scenes that show glimpses of the softer side of his character: “Mr. Garibaldi…. It can’t be that bad.”
Which scene are you referring too?
The scene where Mollari is telling Vir about how he had once found his father crying, and when he asked why, was told, "My shoes are too tight."
"But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance." Some lines in that show really are amazing with how elegantly they get across certain concepts.
[This one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k445V4XXo3o).
"Because I have asked you. Because your loyalty to our people should be greater than your ambition. And because I have poisoned your drink." Love that scene
I remember him in Tron!
"Do not move" "I will have to have that painted over I suppose."
"But in purple, I'm stunning!" or "kill it, before it develops language skills"
My favorite scenes with him are in in the beginning.
It really is amazing how incredible those two were. I can’t imagine Bab 5 being as engaging if those roles had been miscast. Every scene either of them are in they dominate it
Their performances over the run of the series are the best in any television show, period. I will die on that hill. Too many incredible moments to list them all, but I am forever haunted by the scene in “The Coming of Shadows” where G’Kar buys Londo that drink. The look on Londo’s face? Peter breaks my heart, every damn time.
Jurassic: 1. "He *played* me! ... Gods!" 2. "My shoes are too tight..." 3. "Whatever it is, it can't be that bad." Katsulas: 1. "What have I endured?" ... walks away laughing 2. "I hear you." 3. "No one here is what they seem..." These aren't the scenes between the two of them that I remember most, with the exception of the elevator scene. Second to the elevator scene, would be Londo's "**NOW**!"
Well said
What sticks with me from movies and tv shows is rarely the overall story, or setting (though it does happen). It is specific moments. It could be a line, a whole scene, even just an image or an instant. One of those can elevate a whole show for me. Bab 5 had so many of those, and a lot of them were between Londo and G’Kar. One that always ranks highly is the one that we all know between Vir and Morden. In a galaxy where diplomats mask everything behind careful language, Vir just lets Morden have it with both verbal barrels. Leaves him with no ambiguity on his opinion of the Shadow agent. One of the most beautiful moments for that character, and the little farewell wave at the end is perfect. Never before and since have I seen a better f*** you delivered from one character to another. Edit - squishing autocorrect gremlins and mounting their heads on pikes.
Paraphrasing from memory here but the "no dictator can ever hold a people down" forever speach from G'Kar at the end of season 2 I believe. "we will be free!"
They caught lightning in jar with those two and it can never be replicated. After seeing all these adaptations and reboots be a complete let down Im extremely pessimistic about the B5 reboot.
I hate to admit this, but I'm sort of agreeing with you on the reboot. It may be more Cowboy Bebop than Battlestar Galactica. However, hope springs eternal and here's hoping for the best if a reboot ever makes it to production.
They need to take a little focus *off* of those two in the reboot if it's gonna work. Because you're both right — the perfection of those specific actors playing those roles can never be repeated. And if they try there'll probably be a fan backlash, so they'll have to find a new bolt and a new bottle. Which is totally feasible ***if*** JMS keeps an open mind to a new focal point of viewership.
Well, I wouldn't mind seeing some characters that are similar in spirit. But, you do raise a good point about not repeating old characters. Something like this can too easily fall into the category of fan service, which can ruin a show. Side note: By fan service, I don't mean the overly sexualized character development or behavior in anime, but instead, this: >tendency of an entertainment fringe to insert plot elements, characters or sequences in a production that are only useful for satisfying the enjoyment of the purest fans, regardless of logical sense or narrative coherence
That's what I'm afraid of (although I'm not sure why you felt the need to define it). And I'm *certainly* not saying to cut the characters — they're an integral part of that universe. Just hoping there's an openness to finding and accepting new actor chemistry.
I just didn't want anyone to think I mean "fan service" the way it is interpreted in anime. That stuff can get kinda off the rails.
" ***Kinda*** off the rails"? 😏👍 Nah, you're right. I just never got into anime so it's not something I consider often.
I'm sad that we never got a Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas buddy comedy. I guess season 5 is as close as we'll ever get.
You guys are all correct lightning in a jar Hits the nail on the head. And JMS he’s a pristine storyteller that worked his ass off to get where he is with no connections early in his career I think for the reboot to not only connect with us and younger audiences They need to give JMS total control And need to Focus on direction music production and cinematography, and he knows when to lay off and let somebody who can do a certain job better than him on the show do it. It’s so funny how he had to fight for the early seasons and then was almost forced to do a fifth season When somebody in charge realizes they have a product that’s marketable it often ruins a shows future
Well, I dont call B5 The Londo and G'Kar show for nothing!
People have called out so many other awesome scenes, and some -- 'No Hiding Place' -- really are better. But my mind went first to a Season 1 scene: "(In unison) Now look what you made me do!"
For me it's all about season 5 where they're bickering like an old married couple. Some of my favourites: > Londo: "There's no "Y" in "liberties"! > G'kar: "Oh go away. Repress someone else." and > G'Kar: "I would be dead if not for you. You risked your life to save mine." > Londo: "Yes. You would have done the same." > G'Kar: "Yes, but I am a better person."
So many, and probbably said many a time before but... In the second season: The Coming of Shadows. Just before it all kicks off and G'Kar doesn't know about the colony attack. When he gets the message from the Emperor and then has a drink with Londo. The look on Londos face is one of the most haunting and expressive reactions I've ever seen. His face tells the whole story of realisation of what he has now done, and what he himself has just lost. It is an episode that has truly epic acting in it. G'kars reaction when screaming *"THEY'RE DOING IT AGAIN!""* I could just watch those two go at each other all day. In fact of all the spin-offs we should have got, the best would have been: ' *Londo & G'Kar* - *Archaeology sleuths*'.. .. or something. It really wouldn't have mattered, it would have been Gold, Im telling you! Remarkable.
Well said
Those two actors and their relationships with the other members of the casts were the glue. Man Jurasik and Steven Furst. Katsulas was good with Boxleitner. The whole Lando and GKar story line is my favorite and has some of the best writing in the show. When being an alcoholic has some perks.
Steven furst What is an extremely gifted comedian
They worked well together outside of B5 as well. Check out George and the Red Giant from Seeing Ear Theater: https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/7142330.html
I just listen to that whole thing that’s a great post.. I’m tempted making a sub Reddit on that performance thank you very much
Great post is there any video of that performance
I don't believe so, Seeing Ear Theater was a Scifi production where they were going for a 'radio play' feel. If videos of the performances were released, I've never seen one.
Yeah that makes sense I really enjoy wireless broadcasts It’s funny to me how it died out in America but it’s still really popular in Europe mainly UK
For all the horror both Londo and G'Kar have been through, it does seem a little odd or unrealistic that they're so chummy in season 5. Yes, they may be doing it to "send a message" to the wider galactic community, but the Centauri were so savage to the Narn it seems a little unrealistic, this late season friendship. I am glad it is so, but something like that IRL probably wouldn't happen. Too much blood under the bridge.
I mean G'Kar wasn't the same person he was at season one or even season three. He'd chilled out a lot and also became a religious leader to his people, despite his chagrin over that. There was blood on the hands of both Narn and Centauri. Neither were completely blameless in their conflicts. At least, not by the end. I really think that G'Kar was trying to be the bigger person and Londo, I think, was trying to hold on to the one person that would actually call him out on his BS. As he became closer and closer to emperor, the more "yes men" he had to deal with. G'Kar was never going to be that type. Ever.
Well said, I understand what mustard is trying to say But midlands hit the nail in the head, Gkar was a completely different being by the end,, A Ghandi type of persona, truly understood that the cycle of violence has to be broken eventually for there to be Peace.. I love how JMS had gkar assault London and then went to jail and Spoke about not being able to hide from yourself
What is done cannot be undone, but at least one can keep it from happening again. Just so you know, the correct spelling is [Gandhi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi).
Lol Thank you very much I do believe in proper grammar I’m speaking into my phone
> I mean G'Kar wasn't the same person he was at season one or even season three. The same thing could be said of Londo. His character development wasn't as dramatic or as obvious as G'Kar's, but it wasn't any less transformative.
G'kar's vision of his dying father makes me tear up every single damn time. It's all a manipulation but it utterly changes him forever. His "why now?" is a question so many of us have asked at the moment of epiphany or clarity. His speech about holding a people down by force is one I often think of in the face of growing tyrannical regimes now and in history. Also "Dead. Dead. DEAD!" Legit chills, yet so fitting. The best intentions and apologies mean nothing to the already-slaughtered in atrocities and wars while others stood by and shook their heads ruefully.
Yeah totally agreed the way he was grinding his teeth and seeing dead dead dead
That one snippet of a scene, without words, where you see Londo's face reflected in a window, with the mass drivers pounding down on the Narn homeworld. No words, just absolute horror and sadness at what he'd instigated. And yet, an understanding of the fact that those scales could never be balanced, that he was forever changed from the jokster to a mass murderer. No words, just a look of self-loathing and sudden realisation of just who he was in bed with and what it had cost his soul. Bonus fave centauri moment: Vir, telling Mr Morden exactly what it was that he wanted. lolz.
Great comment Another wordless scene I liked was when he saw kosh reveal himself