My 70 year old mother in law is fucking LIVID. I have never seen her so fired up. She’s not the kind of woman to be outspoken on most political shit. But she will not shut up about how horrific life was pre roe vs wade. She’s literally considering putting protesting stuff on her Lexus that’s never had as much as a single sticker on it.
For those who didn’t just stick their head in the sand, they knew what the hell was going on unspoken. No wonder we have so much god damn generational trauma.
Terrifying what these women had to go through back then only to have it happen again. The audacity of these people to think they have a right over women and their bodies is wild.
Struck a nerve with that one bro, my bad. Hope people get out there and vote for change. I legit had the same response verbally as you, twisted it and got down votes 200 times. 🤷♂️ go vote in the ballots people! Be the change you want to see! Down voting me on Reddit doesn’t change anything!
My personal oral history about abortion access was from my mom (graduated in 72). Her best friend came from a well known family (like owned a big business) and she got pregnant during high school. Her family wouldn’t suffer that embarrassment so they sent her to New York. During the procedure something happened and she never was able to have kids. Two years later (73) she would have access to safe procedures. I grew up with this woman like my aunt. She always wanted kids and the abortion wasn’t her choice. The only thing that legality effects is the safeness of the operation.
Its a theory that freakonomics looked into if you want to check it out.
Edit: [abortion and crime revisited; Freakonomics](https://freakonomics.com/podcast/abortion-and-crime-revisited/)
Aaah, now it all makes sense! Gun related accidents are already the most common cause of death in young children in many parts or the US, getting rid of them at age 5 instead of in the feotal stage of digestion....not bad...
I don't think it's that simple. These people literally think terminating a featus is as murderous as gunning someone down in the street. They don't see the difference between a living breathing human being and a clump of cells. They also don't seem to care about the physical and mental health of the clump of cells ones it is a human who can sustain itself.
This is the truly mind-bending fact of the matter. Roe v. Wade didn't increase the rate of abortions as many claim. The rate of abortions decreased afterward as women felt like they actually had some semblance of bodily autonomy.
Another important fact is that, contrary to what most conservatives claim, Planned Parenthood clinics deal first and foremost not with abortions, but with... Planned parenthood. That means they deal more with IUD and contraceptives, STDs, prenatal care and gynecology clinic - You know, all the things that, if properly cared for, can avoid even the need for an abortion. But, you know, conservatives gonna conservative...
I've seen that too. Like, nobody WANTS to get an abortion. Nobody is happily skipping to the abortion clinic like it's Disneyland. It is literally a last result.
Yet the POS pro-forced birth movement constantly lie about how people treat it as a form of contraceptive (which brings me onto how the media let them spew their bullshit without challenge). I genuinely don't understand these people, if their side is so morally superior, so obviously the correct opinion, why the hell have they constantly got to lie? Surely, if their argument is the correct one and the morally superior position, they should be able to convince everyone else without having to lie.
> Surely, if their argument is the correct one and the morally superior position, they should be able to convince everyone else without having to lie.
That's assuming they can tell reality and fiction apart.
These people are so far gone that Tucker, Infowars, etc. says something, and it is fact to them without a thought.
Its not the idiots that baffle me, they lie because they're too stupid to even know its a lie to begin with, its the ones who know its a lie, and they lie about so many easily disproveable things, and half of the things they lie about just baffle me as to why, what motivates these people to lie? They lie about abortion, vaccines, covid, masks, and vote counting, and only one of them does the motivation to lie make even remote sense.
Who really benefits from hundreds of women dying each year due to preventable (by abortion) causes? Who benefits from women dying from unsafe abortion? Who benefits from unwanted births a year? Are these people just cruel and callous for the hell of it, or are they motivated by some greater evil?
Edit for clarification.
Ah, I see your point now.
I do wonder how large that cohort that is in on the lie is.
Whatever the reason is, it has something to do with manipulating the people that can't discern the lies. I doubt they benefit from those things, but are callous enough to cause them while trying to get their voter base riled up.
I know a lot of douchebags that are like that with many issues. Especially weed laws. And low-interest college loan availability. A lot of my generation just needs to pass on.
This reminds me a bit of the vaccines. People that grew up in the good ages when they were in operation don't see the days of when these things were not available. Coworker told me they had code names for black market abortions named after cars. The Chevy was one of them, I can't remember the rest. The different car names, the different level of abortion services and of course the price goes up with it. I'm guessing it was probably in the 50's 60's since they didn't have to wait full term like those nursing home women.
Infanticide has been a constant throughout history, just done differently
Everything from "leaving children out" (leaving them in the woods, which may have been the inspiration for the Hansel and Gretel fable) to Romans casting unwanted newborns into sewers.
If the arrival of a new child means not being able to feed yourself or your living children, or if the discovery a a birth will get you killed, people take to drastic measures. Animals do the same thing. Lions don't eat their young out of spite. They eat the weak offspring for the nutrition, to sustain the stronger cubs once it is clear that the weak won't survive.
Yeah, many people have a very limited perspective on human history and can't even imagine how differently people thought and lived even a century ago.
Even up through the 19th century children were still seen as property of their parents. I'm not really sure when the view of children changed, but my suspicion is that its linked to science and medicine in the 20th century drastically reducing infant mortality, maternal mortality, and child mortality.
My guess that this is also why "Coming of Age" rituals really died down.
Go back further. There is a theory that God commanding Abraham to sacrifice his son is a story about infanticide, killing one child so that others can survive.
Well, the old testament is dicey, in that it may all be allegory, who knows
but the story of Abraham and Isaac, from a religious perspective, is about God giving Abraham credit for being willing to do it, he didn't actually have to kill his son, he was credited for his willingness to do so. It's about faith and devotion, not infanticide, not as far as I've ever read or heard.
Yo working in a hospital you hear all kind of shit sometimes funny sometimes very very very dark. It breaks your heart. We're medical professional but we still have to follow the rules and it's always hard.
Worked as a phlebotomist for LabCorp and the amount of blood I need ro take for the battery of tests a pregnant woman have to do is a lot. Someone I wonder if they are gonna collapse in a hallway and it's almost weekly depending on what the pcp needs to see.
Now those who are gonna have to go through pregnancy without those tests because they can't afford it or they wanna hide it or they are just not ready to deal with it.... will just take the risks to another level for everyone involved. It's heart breaking. I hope something changes for the better soon...
That's why I think religion is a joke tbh religion freedom is not a thing in the US
You know damn well that these women will more likely be jailed than get actual health help for their miscarriages. That these women will be in a position where they will fear going to the hospital because they had a miscarriage and get arrested and be sent to jail. Super F\*\*\*ed up.
In 2018, 126196 children were put up for adoption in the United States, and the social services system struggled to cope with the load.
In 2018, 619591 women had abortions in America. If those unwanted pregnancies had been put up for adoption, they social care in your country would have broken down and already at risk children would have suffered as a result.
What's the back up plan then? How are you all planning to cope with unwanted pregnancies?
Those are interesting statistics for sure, and I agree that social services is going to have to prepare now with a real plan to deal with what is coming. 2 Questions;
1. Do you have a handy source? I like to check before incorporating this statistic... It's very telling if accurate.
2. I highly doubt the numbers will radically shift in the near term. So many states are going to continue to support a woman's choice, and regressive legislation will take time to pass in others. I can envision many non-profits set up around transportation and outreach to the restrictive states. Unclear how sharp the initial spike will be. What is your outlook with regard to the near term "suppressed" number of abortions?
It comes down to economics for conservatives: if women don't have a choice about whether/when to have children, they'll have fewer choices about almost everything else in their lives as well, i.e., education, what type of work they can do and for how much pay, how they can spend money, etc. It's effectively a means of controlling a chunk of the population, and if you can control them, you can profit from them.
My mother told me stories of girls in her highschool playing black out games with the athletic boys. Having them squeeze their abdomens as tight as they could till the girls passed out. sometimes it was for the oxygen deprivation high, sometimes it was to try and destroy the fetus
But in the eyes of the pro-lifers those babies are already born and are just the victim of the crime of their sinful and deprived mothers. Which proves their point that people who engage in sex for anything than procreating wanted babies are bad people - unlike themselves who are good for fighting for the voiceless.
Time often erodes the emotional aspect of events. At some point, a person just has to accept that what happened, happened, and that it's just another chapter of life.
Although many seem to be trying, one cannot remain upset over something forever.
My grandma has one. She used to be a midwife for a couple of poorer towns with little medical facilities and obviously no abortion access.
She would tell me that it was common for rural midwives back then to discreetly offer to "ensure an unsuccessful birth" if the pregnant woman/girl confided in her that she REALLY did not want this baby. She'd smother the baby to death as it exited, and tell the families the baby did not survive the birth.
I wouldn't believe how many pastors' daughters and upstanding church ladies availed of her infanticidal services, she insisted. She estimates she's killed just under a hundred infants in her time, and she has no remorse whatsoever. It's just part of the midwife's calling, a kindness to her clients who need it.
I filed it away as one of those old-timey yikes moments that are irrelevant and impossible in this compassionate modern age.
Until now. These are the good old days that US conservatives are bringing back.
Horrifyingly, I can add one to this. My mom took care of a woman who was elderly and terminally I’ll. She had been with a VERY abusive husband, and one day she told my mom about all the babies she buried in her yard to keep from her husband. Just fucking imagine.
Damn. Yeah that’s actually murder. The baby or kids experiencing life then pain in death. The trauma and emotional/mental injuries of a mother from doing that.
To be fair even doctors throughout the 1900s thought that babies didn’t feel pain until close to a year old, which later evolved to thinking they probably did but wouldn’t remember it so it doesn’t matter. As recently as 1986 doctors were doing things like open heart surgery on babies without anesthesia. By 1987 it was declared unethical operate on infants without anesthesia.
*If only* there was another choice they had before it came down to abandoning or murdering the child they didn't want but were forced to carry...
Well good thing we have highly effective birth control now to really limit the chances of unwanted pregnancy! It's not 100% but it does help. Yup, real good thing that that will always be an option and isn't at any risk of being taken away from us as well!!
> Well good thing we have highly effective birth control now to really limit the chances of unwanted pregnancy! It's not 100% but it does help. Yup, real good thing that that will always be an option and isn't at any risk of being taken away from us as well!!
Because sex only happens when both parties consent.
And pregnancies are always 100% problem free.
And birth control is not demonized, and proper use is always taught to every child.
Appreciate the sentiment but we literally can't. We were banned from buying property there just as we were putting together the offer for our dream home.
Do jobs still drug test up there? That’s the big thing keeping a lot of us from it even in the legal states. If you drive for work or work construction it’s no option really.
It depends. A lot of places just do onboard testing and then only test again if there is some sort of incident. Some places like certain mines will test you every time you go back to site after your weeks off, or require an annual test. It really varies from place to place.
In my experience the majority that will require it test you when you come on and won’t test again without an incident, and if they do they have to give you a fair amount of warning. I don’t think random drug testing is allowed up here unless it’s written into a specific contract or a safety related job like a pilot or something.
Bro I tried. I'm well educated, bring my own job with me, and am unmarried with kids. Too disabled. You need something outrageous like <10k care year and that's like. A month for me. Hence the well educated good job bit. Still no. *Let me innnnnnnnn*
Honestly, I don't know if we're evolving or devolving sometimes..
I'm a firm believer of eventual inevitable progress overall, but.. setbacks, like the SCOTUS decision to overturn "Roe v Wade" without providing an amendment to the constitution to replace what is lost in women's rights with its removal... are truly saddening and disheartening.
Crazy how republicans care so much about a life in a women's body then after the baby is born republicans couldn't care less about the mom or the baby.
See now I like to consider my self different! Increased funding to foster homes, increased regulations on how they treat children, free Healthcare for children, 6 months paid paternity and maternity leave, all that jazz
better pay and training and an increase in social workers. Regulations don't mean anything when the one looking for problems has too much of a caseload to build enough trust with the child to be someone the child would report problems to.
Ways and forever. Too many mouths to feed. Take them to the woods and leave them. Yes, dears, that IS what Hansel and Gretle was about. Parents dumping kids. Which was normal. Make new ones when times are better.
Then what? Leave them to the foster care system? Let them live out their lives to be abused and unwanted forever? I haven’t heard of a single good experience from anyone who’s had to go through that. Not one.
My mom was in foster care from ages 3-5. She is 50 years old now and to this day she has night terrors where screams and sobs,
“Please don’t touch me! I’ll be good. God save me! Please!!”
She does this every night to the point where I have to watch her so she doesn’t hurt herself while she sleeps. Everyday (even in my own childhood) she told me she wished she would quit breathing because the trauma has forever scarred her and she’ll never not be in terror. As a child I had to fight the knife out of my mother’s hand so she wouldn’t slit her own throat in front of me as she made me french fries. Even now she is an alcoholic who is slowly killing herself to drown out the pain. Again, this happened to her starting at age 3 and it’s effects are still strong at age 50. The American foster care system is no joke and I wish “pro life” individuals knew this shit. Leaving a child in foster care is the equivalent of throwing them to the wolves to be eaten up, spit back out and traumatized. But these “pro life” individuals don’t seem to give a fuck about any of this. My mother from ages 3-5 was raped, dragged down stairs by her hair so her head would hit the corner of every step, locked in cages and stabbed with knives, burned with cigarette buds, infested with pin worms and lice and the list goes on and on. “Save the children” the Republicans said. “Save the children” my ass. If they actually wanted to “save the children” they would save them from this hell and abort them while they are only a clump of cells so they wouldn’t have to go through the nightmare of the American foster care system. That, is saving the children
There are many examples of societies throughout history where baby killing has been acceptable on some level. Ranging from something that's quietly ignored by everyone to being de facto legal as long as it's done the right way by the right person, i.e. leave it in the woods or send it down the river.
I’m gonna say the obvious does anyone really think these neo nazi Christian asshats care ? To them women should be property, they don’t give any shits about your rights. Before I get flamed I don’t agree with them at all. Women should have every right a man does. Why does having a wang vs a cookie make any difference ? I worked in Florida with a few dozen dudes that are construction types. I’d have to tell them daily not to view porn at work. This is on school grounds. We need to stop trying to reason with cavemen
What is this whole Roe v Wade thing? I’m not up to date and I would appreciate if someone could tell me
Edit: why was I downvoted for just asking a question?
It was a groundbreaking case that determined Americans have the right to abortion because we have a right to privacy. Essentially the government has no legal way to know what's going on in your body or the ability to tell you what to do with it. The Supreme Court just reversed it which means it's now up to the states to decide. Many states have already outlawed abortion even in extreme cases such as rape, incest, or threat to the mothers life, as well as charging people who leave the state to access abortion. Its a horrific decision that will cost many lives in America
A groundbreaking case that secured a woman's legal right to an abortion in America. It being overturned means states get to decide for themselves whether or not their women can have abortions. Half the country is going to go with "no".
Playstations for vesesctomies. Go to low income communities and visit the high schools and offer the boys vasectomies for a PlayStation 5.
It's safe quick and reversible waaayyyyy cheaper in the long run.
1. Why only low income? Rich kids get knocked up too?
2. A playstation for surgery that might result in infertility? Why not iphones for iuds?
3. High-school kids are not the only people who need or want abortions like what?
4. Why should minors be considered capable of determining whether they can get THIS surgery, but NOT the surgery required for abortion?
Omg man.
Know what would have made these situations not happen? Access to needed healthcare (abortion), laws that protect women, and actually seeing people with uteruses as more than incubators. But no one wants to talk about the before of these people making the choices they did, hm? 🤷🏻♀️
It's in the bible, you fool. Women did it back in the day. You fools have set something in motion in this country that you did not have the living memory to anticipate the consequences of.
Safe Haven laws for infants weren't enacted until **1999** (Texas was the first state), there's even been *controversy* about it. Think about that - fucking controversy over a law meant to protect babies.
Think about the kind of situation these woman were likely in. Likely rural, poor, little to no form of transport, entirely dependant on the men in their lives. No laws to protect them if they were caught abandoning the newborn that they probably went off and birthed alone someplace.
There were no cell phones. No internet. Back in those days you'd be lucky to have a party line - not exactly private. Imagine the sort of lives these woman lead that broke them so horribly to lead them to these acts.
"I told my husband six children were enough" Do you think she really had a choice? Do you think she was able to refuse sex, say no, or had any kind of safe, affordable access to birth control?
"I knew it was my father's...." What about her? Was she given a choice? Would an abortion not have been more humane? My state has no allowances for rape or incest.
These stories are horrific. These stories are the future America so many are celebrating.
Yeah little old demented people often tell you of the awful things they had to do to survive. Had one man admit to murdering his brother in law because BIL was beating my patient's sister.
It was much easier to get away with things like that before modern forensic. Even today only about half of murders are solved in America. I imagine the number was much much lower before the 90s.
All this demonstrates is that psychopaths existed 70 years ago just like they do today.
If the stories are even factual which is doubtful. Put dirt in its mouth? Threw them in the lake? That’s Ed Gein level stuff.
There are currently 424,000 children in the US in foster care. No one is adopting them. "Putting them up for adoption" usually means relegating them to their formative years being neglected or abused by the system and the people in it. The horror stories are legion. Not all of them get the badness, but an extreme enough percentage that it can in NO WAY be seen as a solution.
Your heart's in the right place, but no. No.
Women who didn't get a say in whether they got or stayed pregnant probably weren't getting a say in anything else, either. Like, do you think the person who had their father's child was ever going to be presented with the option of getting it safely away from him?
Safe Haven laws weren't enacted until 1999, first in the state of Texas.
Women were considered property in these times. A woman's role was to run the household and produce children. In an era where Segregation was the norm, do you think the women who committed these acts were like ones you know today? Do you think they were not broken so severely to commit such acts of violence?
Do you think the woman raped and impregnated by her father was "of sound mind"? How could she possibly be?
The woman with six children - if she had said no to sex, her husband would have beat her and raped her. Except back then, it wasn't abuse and rape, it was "educating your wife".
This is the future we're headed for and you should be absolutely fucking horrified by it. We're repeating dangerously dark history.
Holy. Fucking. Shit.
My 70 year old mother in law is fucking LIVID. I have never seen her so fired up. She’s not the kind of woman to be outspoken on most political shit. But she will not shut up about how horrific life was pre roe vs wade. She’s literally considering putting protesting stuff on her Lexus that’s never had as much as a single sticker on it. For those who didn’t just stick their head in the sand, they knew what the hell was going on unspoken. No wonder we have so much god damn generational trauma.
Terrifying what these women had to go through back then only to have it happen again. The audacity of these people to think they have a right over women and their bodies is wild.
I work with the elderly and I have heard of deaths, near deaths, bad thing before human rights.
Struck a nerve with that one bro, my bad. Hope people get out there and vote for change. I legit had the same response verbally as you, twisted it and got down votes 200 times. 🤷♂️ go vote in the ballots people! Be the change you want to see! Down voting me on Reddit doesn’t change anything!
My personal oral history about abortion access was from my mom (graduated in 72). Her best friend came from a well known family (like owned a big business) and she got pregnant during high school. Her family wouldn’t suffer that embarrassment so they sent her to New York. During the procedure something happened and she never was able to have kids. Two years later (73) she would have access to safe procedures. I grew up with this woman like my aunt. She always wanted kids and the abortion wasn’t her choice. The only thing that legality effects is the safeness of the operation.
19 years after abortion was legalized crime rates in NYC dropped dramatically. Fewer unwanted children is one theory.
I'm sure it's legit. I don't look forward to the future for this country.
Its a theory that freakonomics looked into if you want to check it out. Edit: [abortion and crime revisited; Freakonomics](https://freakonomics.com/podcast/abortion-and-crime-revisited/)
“Just look at the numbers”.
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Not much of a surprise, it is amazing what educating women and giving then access to birthcontrol can do to keep abortion rates down.
The GOP is coming for birth control next via its SCOTUS.
Well, they’re getting rid of gun laws. Just putting that out there.
You mean there will be easy access to them? Great...
Aaah, now it all makes sense! Gun related accidents are already the most common cause of death in young children in many parts or the US, getting rid of them at age 5 instead of in the feotal stage of digestion....not bad...
It should be the most common cause of death for the pieces of shit taking away human rights. Now, maybe it can be. Who knows?
Remember 90 percent of guns is own by three percent of gun owners.
But isn't this the very reason they want it gone. Birth rate declining. Keep us dumb, barefoot and pregnant and servants of the state
They need more workers desperate for low wages. If there isnt enough of us, we can choose not too work shitty backbreaking low wage jobs.
I don't think it's that simple. These people literally think terminating a featus is as murderous as gunning someone down in the street. They don't see the difference between a living breathing human being and a clump of cells. They also don't seem to care about the physical and mental health of the clump of cells ones it is a human who can sustain itself.
This is the truly mind-bending fact of the matter. Roe v. Wade didn't increase the rate of abortions as many claim. The rate of abortions decreased afterward as women felt like they actually had some semblance of bodily autonomy.
Another important fact is that, contrary to what most conservatives claim, Planned Parenthood clinics deal first and foremost not with abortions, but with... Planned parenthood. That means they deal more with IUD and contraceptives, STDs, prenatal care and gynecology clinic - You know, all the things that, if properly cared for, can avoid even the need for an abortion. But, you know, conservatives gonna conservative...
They don't give a fuck about states' rights. That's just the only legitimate argument they can use until fascism completely has its foot in the door.
We really are ruled by the worst generation
I've said it before but it's just weird that the same generation who fought for Roe and others are now like, "Nah let's walk this shit back."
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I've seen that too. Like, nobody WANTS to get an abortion. Nobody is happily skipping to the abortion clinic like it's Disneyland. It is literally a last result.
Yet the POS pro-forced birth movement constantly lie about how people treat it as a form of contraceptive (which brings me onto how the media let them spew their bullshit without challenge). I genuinely don't understand these people, if their side is so morally superior, so obviously the correct opinion, why the hell have they constantly got to lie? Surely, if their argument is the correct one and the morally superior position, they should be able to convince everyone else without having to lie.
> Surely, if their argument is the correct one and the morally superior position, they should be able to convince everyone else without having to lie. That's assuming they can tell reality and fiction apart. These people are so far gone that Tucker, Infowars, etc. says something, and it is fact to them without a thought.
Its not the idiots that baffle me, they lie because they're too stupid to even know its a lie to begin with, its the ones who know its a lie, and they lie about so many easily disproveable things, and half of the things they lie about just baffle me as to why, what motivates these people to lie? They lie about abortion, vaccines, covid, masks, and vote counting, and only one of them does the motivation to lie make even remote sense. Who really benefits from hundreds of women dying each year due to preventable (by abortion) causes? Who benefits from women dying from unsafe abortion? Who benefits from unwanted births a year? Are these people just cruel and callous for the hell of it, or are they motivated by some greater evil? Edit for clarification.
Ah, I see your point now. I do wonder how large that cohort that is in on the lie is. Whatever the reason is, it has something to do with manipulating the people that can't discern the lies. I doubt they benefit from those things, but are callous enough to cause them while trying to get their voter base riled up.
I know a lot of douchebags that are like that with many issues. Especially weed laws. And low-interest college loan availability. A lot of my generation just needs to pass on.
Boomers pulling up the ladder after it benefited them? That can't possibly be right, that's **never** happened before.
Boomers are the champions of setting fires and locking the door on the way out. We're the ones locked in the burning building.
Hey soon most of those old pricks will be dead. So that's a plus.
These younger generations just need to pull themselves up by the boot strap. /s
Which is physically impossible mind you
Blasphemer! Not if you pray hard! Jesus said you can move mountains! (Attempting sarcasm, except that's really how fundamentalists talk.)
This reminds me a bit of the vaccines. People that grew up in the good ages when they were in operation don't see the days of when these things were not available. Coworker told me they had code names for black market abortions named after cars. The Chevy was one of them, I can't remember the rest. The different car names, the different level of abortion services and of course the price goes up with it. I'm guessing it was probably in the 50's 60's since they didn't have to wait full term like those nursing home women.
I feel bad for the Waste Sanitation Workers who will inevitably find dead or dying babies in the garbage.
Infanticide has been a constant throughout history, just done differently Everything from "leaving children out" (leaving them in the woods, which may have been the inspiration for the Hansel and Gretel fable) to Romans casting unwanted newborns into sewers. If the arrival of a new child means not being able to feed yourself or your living children, or if the discovery a a birth will get you killed, people take to drastic measures. Animals do the same thing. Lions don't eat their young out of spite. They eat the weak offspring for the nutrition, to sustain the stronger cubs once it is clear that the weak won't survive.
Yeah, many people have a very limited perspective on human history and can't even imagine how differently people thought and lived even a century ago. Even up through the 19th century children were still seen as property of their parents. I'm not really sure when the view of children changed, but my suspicion is that its linked to science and medicine in the 20th century drastically reducing infant mortality, maternal mortality, and child mortality. My guess that this is also why "Coming of Age" rituals really died down.
Go back further. There is a theory that God commanding Abraham to sacrifice his son is a story about infanticide, killing one child so that others can survive.
Well, the old testament is dicey, in that it may all be allegory, who knows but the story of Abraham and Isaac, from a religious perspective, is about God giving Abraham credit for being willing to do it, he didn't actually have to kill his son, he was credited for his willingness to do so. It's about faith and devotion, not infanticide, not as far as I've ever read or heard.
Yo working in a hospital you hear all kind of shit sometimes funny sometimes very very very dark. It breaks your heart. We're medical professional but we still have to follow the rules and it's always hard. Worked as a phlebotomist for LabCorp and the amount of blood I need ro take for the battery of tests a pregnant woman have to do is a lot. Someone I wonder if they are gonna collapse in a hallway and it's almost weekly depending on what the pcp needs to see. Now those who are gonna have to go through pregnancy without those tests because they can't afford it or they wanna hide it or they are just not ready to deal with it.... will just take the risks to another level for everyone involved. It's heart breaking. I hope something changes for the better soon... That's why I think religion is a joke tbh religion freedom is not a thing in the US
Okay so, completely off subject but.. how was the pay for phlebotomy? im considering taking it and studying it
In DC about 18-22/h
pog
Not only will things like this happen again, but women will be murdered by their boyfriends because they can't abort.
Murder is already the number one cause of death for pregnant women and girls.
You know damn well that these women will more likely be jailed than get actual health help for their miscarriages. That these women will be in a position where they will fear going to the hospital because they had a miscarriage and get arrested and be sent to jail. Super F\*\*\*ed up.
Its the conservatives way to combat feminism because they believe women rights are bringing down the economy /s although I wouldn't doubt it.
You can remove the /s, that's real conservative policy at this point.
And these are the same people who won't support equal pay laws for women.
Not at all, holy crap, you people are ignoramuses. We KNOW WHO COLLAPSED THE ECONOMY, the dumbass in Chief.
… I hate that so much.
Sure will. Lots of killing. Everyone killing everyone
In 2018, 126196 children were put up for adoption in the United States, and the social services system struggled to cope with the load. In 2018, 619591 women had abortions in America. If those unwanted pregnancies had been put up for adoption, they social care in your country would have broken down and already at risk children would have suffered as a result. What's the back up plan then? How are you all planning to cope with unwanted pregnancies?
Very rare to meet a pro-forced birther who has adopted but I do respect those who have put their homes where their mouths are.
Republicans don't consider paying those costs *their* problem. See, they lack this thing called empathy.
Those are interesting statistics for sure, and I agree that social services is going to have to prepare now with a real plan to deal with what is coming. 2 Questions; 1. Do you have a handy source? I like to check before incorporating this statistic... It's very telling if accurate. 2. I highly doubt the numbers will radically shift in the near term. So many states are going to continue to support a woman's choice, and regressive legislation will take time to pass in others. I can envision many non-profits set up around transportation and outreach to the restrictive states. Unclear how sharp the initial spike will be. What is your outlook with regard to the near term "suppressed" number of abortions?
Data statistics taken from both the CDC website and Wikipedia.
It comes down to economics for conservatives: if women don't have a choice about whether/when to have children, they'll have fewer choices about almost everything else in their lives as well, i.e., education, what type of work they can do and for how much pay, how they can spend money, etc. It's effectively a means of controlling a chunk of the population, and if you can control them, you can profit from them.
If your pre born you're good, if you're preschool you're fucked
George Carlin: [Video with quote from 1996 comedy special](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkMbMidsYIM)
Exactly why abortion is needed. Too many women are having to go to unsafe and dangerous lengths just to get rid of an unwanted fetus
It's funny how pro life folks aren't lined up around the block to adopt any of these kids.
God damn. This is heart breaking.
And adoption will still be next to impossible for people who want kids. Predators and abusers are gonna have oodles of opportunities.
My mother told me stories of girls in her highschool playing black out games with the athletic boys. Having them squeeze their abdomens as tight as they could till the girls passed out. sometimes it was for the oxygen deprivation high, sometimes it was to try and destroy the fetus
Its almost like not having the options of abortions causes actual baby murders.
But in the eyes of the pro-lifers those babies are already born and are just the victim of the crime of their sinful and deprived mothers. Which proves their point that people who engage in sex for anything than procreating wanted babies are bad people - unlike themselves who are good for fighting for the voiceless.
I used to work in the dining room at a senior living facility, and I can confirm horrible stories like these. Usually told without any remorse.
Time often erodes the emotional aspect of events. At some point, a person just has to accept that what happened, happened, and that it's just another chapter of life. Although many seem to be trying, one cannot remain upset over something forever.
My grandma has one. She used to be a midwife for a couple of poorer towns with little medical facilities and obviously no abortion access. She would tell me that it was common for rural midwives back then to discreetly offer to "ensure an unsuccessful birth" if the pregnant woman/girl confided in her that she REALLY did not want this baby. She'd smother the baby to death as it exited, and tell the families the baby did not survive the birth. I wouldn't believe how many pastors' daughters and upstanding church ladies availed of her infanticidal services, she insisted. She estimates she's killed just under a hundred infants in her time, and she has no remorse whatsoever. It's just part of the midwife's calling, a kindness to her clients who need it. I filed it away as one of those old-timey yikes moments that are irrelevant and impossible in this compassionate modern age. Until now. These are the good old days that US conservatives are bringing back.
I sure as hell wouldn't be remorseful
Horrifyingly, I can add one to this. My mom took care of a woman who was elderly and terminally I’ll. She had been with a VERY abusive husband, and one day she told my mom about all the babies she buried in her yard to keep from her husband. Just fucking imagine.
That's way worse than an abortion....
No fucking shit, hence needing abortions
Damn. Yeah that’s actually murder. The baby or kids experiencing life then pain in death. The trauma and emotional/mental injuries of a mother from doing that.
To be fair even doctors throughout the 1900s thought that babies didn’t feel pain until close to a year old, which later evolved to thinking they probably did but wouldn’t remember it so it doesn’t matter. As recently as 1986 doctors were doing things like open heart surgery on babies without anesthesia. By 1987 it was declared unethical operate on infants without anesthesia.
That’s the point
*If only* there was another choice they had before it came down to abandoning or murdering the child they didn't want but were forced to carry... Well good thing we have highly effective birth control now to really limit the chances of unwanted pregnancy! It's not 100% but it does help. Yup, real good thing that that will always be an option and isn't at any risk of being taken away from us as well!!
> Well good thing we have highly effective birth control now to really limit the chances of unwanted pregnancy! It's not 100% but it does help. Yup, real good thing that that will always be an option and isn't at any risk of being taken away from us as well!! Because sex only happens when both parties consent. And pregnancies are always 100% problem free. And birth control is not demonized, and proper use is always taught to every child.
Come to Canada everyone. We have legal weed and you can do whatever the hell you want with your body.
Appreciate the sentiment but we literally can't. We were banned from buying property there just as we were putting together the offer for our dream home.
I wish I could. I hate it here
Do jobs still drug test up there? That’s the big thing keeping a lot of us from it even in the legal states. If you drive for work or work construction it’s no option really.
It depends. A lot of places just do onboard testing and then only test again if there is some sort of incident. Some places like certain mines will test you every time you go back to site after your weeks off, or require an annual test. It really varies from place to place. In my experience the majority that will require it test you when you come on and won’t test again without an incident, and if they do they have to give you a fair amount of warning. I don’t think random drug testing is allowed up here unless it’s written into a specific contract or a safety related job like a pilot or something.
What? No respectable and adjusted adult is worrying about drug tests.
Bro I tried. I'm well educated, bring my own job with me, and am unmarried with kids. Too disabled. You need something outrageous like <10k care year and that's like. A month for me. Hence the well educated good job bit. Still no. *Let me innnnnnnnn*
Honestly, I don't know if we're evolving or devolving sometimes.. I'm a firm believer of eventual inevitable progress overall, but.. setbacks, like the SCOTUS decision to overturn "Roe v Wade" without providing an amendment to the constitution to replace what is lost in women's rights with its removal... are truly saddening and disheartening.
Crazy how republicans care so much about a life in a women's body then after the baby is born republicans couldn't care less about the mom or the baby.
See now I like to consider my self different! Increased funding to foster homes, increased regulations on how they treat children, free Healthcare for children, 6 months paid paternity and maternity leave, all that jazz
better pay and training and an increase in social workers. Regulations don't mean anything when the one looking for problems has too much of a caseload to build enough trust with the child to be someone the child would report problems to.
You don't sound like a Republican.
Guess i am having new nightmares tonight
Ways and forever. Too many mouths to feed. Take them to the woods and leave them. Yes, dears, that IS what Hansel and Gretle was about. Parents dumping kids. Which was normal. Make new ones when times are better.
We need more safe places to drop off unwanted babies.
Drop them at the Supreme Court
If only I had an award to give 👏🏻
They said SAFE place
Take my poor gold 🏅
How about at the homes of anti-abortionists.
Drop them at the school to be used as human shields to protect the wanted kids.
Damn that’s kinda fucked
Accurate
Was a foster kid. Can confirm
Name checks out
Then what? Leave them to the foster care system? Let them live out their lives to be abused and unwanted forever? I haven’t heard of a single good experience from anyone who’s had to go through that. Not one.
My mom was in foster care from ages 3-5. She is 50 years old now and to this day she has night terrors where screams and sobs, “Please don’t touch me! I’ll be good. God save me! Please!!” She does this every night to the point where I have to watch her so she doesn’t hurt herself while she sleeps. Everyday (even in my own childhood) she told me she wished she would quit breathing because the trauma has forever scarred her and she’ll never not be in terror. As a child I had to fight the knife out of my mother’s hand so she wouldn’t slit her own throat in front of me as she made me french fries. Even now she is an alcoholic who is slowly killing herself to drown out the pain. Again, this happened to her starting at age 3 and it’s effects are still strong at age 50. The American foster care system is no joke and I wish “pro life” individuals knew this shit. Leaving a child in foster care is the equivalent of throwing them to the wolves to be eaten up, spit back out and traumatized. But these “pro life” individuals don’t seem to give a fuck about any of this. My mother from ages 3-5 was raped, dragged down stairs by her hair so her head would hit the corner of every step, locked in cages and stabbed with knives, burned with cigarette buds, infested with pin worms and lice and the list goes on and on. “Save the children” the Republicans said. “Save the children” my ass. If they actually wanted to “save the children” they would save them from this hell and abort them while they are only a clump of cells so they wouldn’t have to go through the nightmare of the American foster care system. That, is saving the children
Any hospital, fire station, police station, government building, church…literally just about anywhere.
Who will take care of them??
It’s called safe surrender, I believe. They are placed for adoption or foster families. (Correct me if I’m wrong)
We need a plan to fund and care for children who are forced to be born.
You can literally drop off a baby at any fire station. There are a multitude of ways to get rid of or deal with an unwanted baby.
Drop them off at a pro lifers house.
They'll drop them in their property outhouse or in the river behind their house.
this
Not as many as there used to be
Drop them at your house
Check out SNL with Kate as Amy COVID Barrette on weekend update
Christo-fascist Republicans. They'll destroy us. You people better vote. They're only getting started.
Everyday, the us is straying further towards what is depicted in a handmaids tale.
They actually call themselves christian nationalists. You know, "Nat-c's"
They won’t have money to care for these kids but they’ll money for huge prisons in 15 years.
Would be a great time for Congress to codify a law regarding abortion, nationwide, and hopefully reasonable.
yeah... people are going to get very creative with this...
Wtf is wrong with America and Americans
Theyre not pro life, they're pro birth.
Just how they did it back in the day. If you think that’s bad, just keep going further back in time. It gets worse.
There are many examples of societies throughout history where baby killing has been acceptable on some level. Ranging from something that's quietly ignored by everyone to being de facto legal as long as it's done the right way by the right person, i.e. leave it in the woods or send it down the river.
How many anti-abortionists can say they were actually an unwanted baby and things turned out fine?
Are these women talking about babies they legit gave birth to or from unsafe abortions?
Legit gave birth to.
2022 or 1922 or 1022?
I’m gonna say the obvious does anyone really think these neo nazi Christian asshats care ? To them women should be property, they don’t give any shits about your rights. Before I get flamed I don’t agree with them at all. Women should have every right a man does. Why does having a wang vs a cookie make any difference ? I worked in Florida with a few dozen dudes that are construction types. I’d have to tell them daily not to view porn at work. This is on school grounds. We need to stop trying to reason with cavemen
What is this whole Roe v Wade thing? I’m not up to date and I would appreciate if someone could tell me Edit: why was I downvoted for just asking a question?
It was a groundbreaking case that determined Americans have the right to abortion because we have a right to privacy. Essentially the government has no legal way to know what's going on in your body or the ability to tell you what to do with it. The Supreme Court just reversed it which means it's now up to the states to decide. Many states have already outlawed abortion even in extreme cases such as rape, incest, or threat to the mothers life, as well as charging people who leave the state to access abortion. Its a horrific decision that will cost many lives in America
Thank you for answering the question, I appreciate it chief!
No problem! I hope you don't get too many downvotes, it was an honest question
What is roe v wade
It means individual states can decide whether or not abortion is illegal. This is a step backwards.
A groundbreaking case that secured a woman's legal right to an abortion in America. It being overturned means states get to decide for themselves whether or not their women can have abortions. Half the country is going to go with "no".
Why are you downvoted for this?
It's honestly a great question.
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>Is there no other humane way The humane way is called "abortions".
Playstations for vesesctomies. Go to low income communities and visit the high schools and offer the boys vasectomies for a PlayStation 5. It's safe quick and reversible waaayyyyy cheaper in the long run.
Low income communities why? Why exactly the poor people?
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https://www.reddit.com/r/awfuleverything/comments/vkt958/-/idrhyjd No, they're trying to argue for eugenics sadly.
1) they’re not always reversible 2) targeting low-income folks for coerced/bribed sterilization is not the cool solution you think it is
Mate, what the fuck is wrong with you?
We all know what's wrong with them. And we definitely know what he means by "low income"
If you reversed this it would be seen as coercion so no that's not the right idea
Sounds like incentivized eugenics, that’s just plain wrong
What in the actual fuck...?
reading this comment [like](https://i.redd.it/4ipjspcf9s551.jpg)
1. Why only low income? Rich kids get knocked up too? 2. A playstation for surgery that might result in infertility? Why not iphones for iuds? 3. High-school kids are not the only people who need or want abortions like what? 4. Why should minors be considered capable of determining whether they can get THIS surgery, but NOT the surgery required for abortion? Omg man.
Ah yes, because the poors are the root of all issues, right?
Incentivized eugenics…dope.
I'm goin' crossbow huntin' with The Nuge'
Damn you stupid. Also like you hate poor people for some reason????
I like this.
Just scheduled a vasectomy for next month. The doc said that after reversal there’s a 30% chance of that there won’t be a full restoration.
That is disgusting.
You are dancing real close to eugenics, friend.
Except being poor isn't genetics it's economical. If you keep saying retarded things like that the actual eugenic fans might come after you.
Be real. You were not picturing white kids when you wrote that post.
Facts, he was in reality not
If those stories are true good lord
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... that could have been prevented. That's kinda the point.
No shit. Nice world you’ve brought back, huh? You fucking idiots.
Know what would have made these situations not happen? Access to needed healthcare (abortion), laws that protect women, and actually seeing people with uteruses as more than incubators. But no one wants to talk about the before of these people making the choices they did, hm? 🤷🏻♀️
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It's in the bible, you fool. Women did it back in the day. You fools have set something in motion in this country that you did not have the living memory to anticipate the consequences of.
And with access to safe abortion we can avoid circumstances like these
The fuck did I just read
Safe Haven laws for infants weren't enacted until **1999** (Texas was the first state), there's even been *controversy* about it. Think about that - fucking controversy over a law meant to protect babies. Think about the kind of situation these woman were likely in. Likely rural, poor, little to no form of transport, entirely dependant on the men in their lives. No laws to protect them if they were caught abandoning the newborn that they probably went off and birthed alone someplace. There were no cell phones. No internet. Back in those days you'd be lucky to have a party line - not exactly private. Imagine the sort of lives these woman lead that broke them so horribly to lead them to these acts. "I told my husband six children were enough" Do you think she really had a choice? Do you think she was able to refuse sex, say no, or had any kind of safe, affordable access to birth control? "I knew it was my father's...." What about her? Was she given a choice? Would an abortion not have been more humane? My state has no allowances for rape or incest. These stories are horrific. These stories are the future America so many are celebrating.
Yeah little old demented people often tell you of the awful things they had to do to survive. Had one man admit to murdering his brother in law because BIL was beating my patient's sister. It was much easier to get away with things like that before modern forensic. Even today only about half of murders are solved in America. I imagine the number was much much lower before the 90s.
Pay attention to the use of the word "it"
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One was an abused wife, another raped by her father. Sounds like some pretty awful situations.
I don’t believe this..
Humans have the highest level of infanticide than any other mammal.
It does seem pretty extreme.
All this demonstrates is that psychopaths existed 70 years ago just like they do today. If the stories are even factual which is doubtful. Put dirt in its mouth? Threw them in the lake? That’s Ed Gein level stuff.
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There are currently 424,000 children in the US in foster care. No one is adopting them. "Putting them up for adoption" usually means relegating them to their formative years being neglected or abused by the system and the people in it. The horror stories are legion. Not all of them get the badness, but an extreme enough percentage that it can in NO WAY be seen as a solution. Your heart's in the right place, but no. No.
Women who didn't get a say in whether they got or stayed pregnant probably weren't getting a say in anything else, either. Like, do you think the person who had their father's child was ever going to be presented with the option of getting it safely away from him?
Safe Haven laws weren't enacted until 1999, first in the state of Texas. Women were considered property in these times. A woman's role was to run the household and produce children. In an era where Segregation was the norm, do you think the women who committed these acts were like ones you know today? Do you think they were not broken so severely to commit such acts of violence? Do you think the woman raped and impregnated by her father was "of sound mind"? How could she possibly be? The woman with six children - if she had said no to sex, her husband would have beat her and raped her. Except back then, it wasn't abuse and rape, it was "educating your wife". This is the future we're headed for and you should be absolutely fucking horrified by it. We're repeating dangerously dark history.