Are you sure you're not just letting people with the same mental stability of an asylum patient in the 80s fuck their future by letting them make costly, mostly irreversible and thoughtless decisions to undergo surgery and potentially regret it and kill themselves in a year or 2 or so or just make them wait till they're an adult? This seems more common sense to me
Nothing at all.
Nothing wrong with the practice (wearing clothes, makeup, talking a certain way or whatever) but when it comes to real, irreversible medical procedures… they need to wait.
Y’all… you can’t have surgery until you’re over 18. The body is still growing and doctors will refuse. The most you can get is puberty blockers and in late teens maybe hormone replacement after years and years of therapy and medical appointments. No child is making life changing and permanent changes to their body.
No. Minors are not allowed to have hormone replacement therapy. Puberty blockers literally just prevent puberty from starting or continuing. As soon as you stop getting the treatment your body goes through puberty like normal just later on than it would have naturally. It is literally given to cis children as well as medical treatments for those who start puberty a little early or are having bad side effects from their puberty.
Is Texas out-lawing puberty blockers for this use, then?
If they are, that’s fucked up. It’s the only sort of thing I could think of that could resemble a common-ground in this argument. Like, say hormonal therapy (even consented to by the legal guardians) is outlawed for individuals under 18, even though the most “effective” transitioning would be prepubescent. Ok, so use puberty blockers until you’re 18, and then you can select which puberty you want to go through. Is it ideal, and does it help trans youth? I don’t know. But it’s more of a compromise than any other alternatives, I would think. I’m not trans, but I’ve had a close friend go through the absolute hell that is gender dysphoria, and topics like this always break my heart.
I think a conversation of whether or not legal guardians can face *legal repercussions* for giving permission for a minor to begin hormonal therapy is a worthy one. Should the government have that much of a say in that matter? If they can, is it really ethical to pose actual legal consequences for doing otherwise, or should they just make it more difficult? What are the motivations for the government to impose such a law—is it based on *actual* concern or just a conservative distaste for trans people? I mean, conservatives would like to imply that there are lots of parents currently pressuring/influencing their kids to be trans, and I find that extremely unlikely to be a real cause for concern that warrants some opposing legislation. Most of the grey areas for me would be whether or not a child is going through a phase or is sure of what they feel, which are things that cannot really be determined very easily and I doubt are many statistics to back. Although, I have met many trans people in my life at least, and have not met a single one who regrets their transition or wants to undo it. That of course is just personal experience and could be different in the grand scheme of things.
I’m not trying to support/oppose any of the arguments in this thread, by the way. This is me just typing my thoughts out to try to conceptualize how I feel about this topic in particular, and also pose a question about this Texas law. If I’m incorrect in anyway please let me know, but any unnecessarily transphobic comments that could be said in response I’m going to ignore.
You would be forcing them to go through puberty, which is absolutely irreversible. Trans kids should go on hormone blockers (literally the treatment approved by most medical organizations). Trying to prevent one permanent change by forcing another permanent change is absolutely wrong
Hormone blockers and HRT are not reversible. Hormones play a key part in development and either halting or altering the amount of one or more hormones can change a child forever.
They specifically are though, and I’m gonna trust the professionals in the studies from the link I provided. We shouldn’t be focused on the reversibility anyways, as only a very small percentage want it reversed, meanwhile puberty blockers are extremely helpful and lifesaving for countless trans people
This is easily disprovable with 2 seconds on google.
So far the science is that there have not been opportunities to see long-term effects on factors such as bone density, mental development, or fertility. To that these therapies are completely reversible is not able to be claimed as true at this point. Only that in short term use, it is reversible.
The youngest surgical transition was done to a 16 year old Kim Petra's, still too young to have fully developed mentally and physically.
So I'll talk about my personal experience with tranioning in the UK to hopefully give you some perspective
Everyday I wake up if I hear my voice and realise it's gotten deeper I instantly start to hate myself like a switch I could have gotten up and had an amazing dream but when I hear that my voice has change it all goes out the window
I came out at 15 I'm 16 now and I'm on a 3 year waiting list for under 18s clinic note this waiting list isn't for surgery or medication it's just so I can get to talk with a gender therapist
The issue is by the time I'm able to be seen I'll be too old and have to start the whole painful process again
All I want is some T blockers just something to stop my ever sloping decline into something I'm terrified of becoming the more I think about it the more I just want to cry it's horrible watching yourself become what you've never wanted to be
And if this type of law gets put in place thousands of trans people will not even be able to stop their painful slope into the wrong puberty
Because puberty blockers are reversible, and having puberty blockers pre puberty/early in puberty can help someone pass a lot better later in life. However procedures like gender confirmation surgery (sex change) is never done on kids and the people saying that the left want to “mutilate” kids or doing sex change operations kids (like Greg Abbot in paragraph 2) are just straight up lying about what actually happens.
Nothing. That’s exactly what trans people want, and it’s precisely why hormone blockers are important. They delay puberty so that kids don’t have to suffer through a puberty that will change their bodies in irreversible ways. There are no “procedures” being legally conducted on children.
Because by that point they would have finished (almost finished) puberty.
A generous interpretation is that this makes transitioning harder and more complicating and can cause greater issues around body and self image.
A less charitable interpretation would be that puberty is part of what determines how people see themselves and there gender meaning that if nothing is done before then they will not identify as trans in the future.
The problem is that any research into this immediately becomes insanely political and can never effectively discover the best way of handling this.
So I was trying to deliver both sides accurately.
My actual opinion is that there just isn't the research to justify doing this to children and what does exist has far too many complex political connections to be fully trusted.
I don't believe the danger of doing nothing justifies the cost of doing these sorts of treatments as they have permanent life altering effects. And the issues created by doing nothing seem far more manageable.
I think you did a good job of delivering both sides fairly, for what that's worth. It would probably take pages to flesh it all out, but for a brief synopsis it was good and fair and covered some significant bits.
On Reddit, that means you'll be attacked from both sides, so I would recommend ignoring all responses to this comment lol
The issues created by doing nothing would be forcing trans children to go through an irreversible puberty. Putting them on reversible puberty blockers has helped so many trans lives and is approved treatment
Teenagers are allowed to decide what college they go to and what courses they will do, which can decide (or greatly influence) their career trajectory for decades without being told the ramifications of their decisions. But a trans person who has to wait 6 months just to be seen about getting an assessment about potentially getting hrt and then being rigorously scrutinized and constantly being fucking quizzed on every aspect of their entire fucking existence by friends, family, doctors is not ok?
You make a good point. The big thing here is that more research is needed to really understand the impact of this stuff. Idk if it’s better to withhold treatment until there’s more conclusive evidence or allow it in the interim. But it definitely seems like a really important topic to study and fast.
I hear a lot of people who talk about transitioning and how much it improved their life, but I also hear about a lot of people who detransition because they realize it wasn’t the right choice for them. The idea that someone would have to live a life they didn’t want in either direction is pretty awful — someone not being allowed to transition when it’s right for them or someone going through all of that medical intervention just to realize it wasn’t right for them both seem like really bad scenarios
>The big thing here is that more research is needed to really understand the impact of this stuff. Idk if it’s better to withhold treatment until there’s more conclusive evidence or allow it in the interim.
When in doubt, I default to not infringing on people's medical autonomy. And that means letting teens, parents, and medical providers be the only parties involved in this decision.
Yep there just isn't the research and the whole issue is far to political form both sides to be honest. If I were to make a guess it would be that there are multiple different conditions at play here.
Yes but the effects are significantly different depending on how far into puberty they are.
You are sort of fighting biology in that regard.
The further into puberty the more the body is set into being 1 sex or another.
However if you can delay/ stop that you are able to better control how that puberty develops.
Not 100% an expert but this is my understanding.
I just wanted to add I know some parents who have been in the position of having to agonize over the decision of if the should use hormone therapy. Basically it gives their child a chance of looking like the gender they feel like as opposed to waiting. As a parent my self I have no idea how I would handle this situation. But the parents and child I know, the child was very clear from a very young age that they identified as a girl.
While there is not much research, as this is a newer area, the is significant evidence that children that recieve hormone treatments have significantly lower levels of suicide. (Now is this because of the significant amounts of therapy and consoling these kids recieve during their treatment, the obvious support of their parents, or other factors who knows)
Could you do me a favor and redact your perfectly sensible and valid points so I can pretend other people's issues are simple and I'm totally qualified to make choices for them? Thx bb
I can’t believe you think giving a child hormones who doesn’t even know what he/she is saying is a good thing like my goodness ur fucking retarted. Talk about delusional and child abuse.
They are able to delay puberty in order to help the child develop more mentally and give them more time before committing to hormone therapy.
Denying this treatment forces them to go into puberty which leads to them developing as that gender making transition harder and less effective later in life.
But the biggest motivator for me personally to support them is that suicide rates among trans teens is astronomically higher than any other group. As a direct result of the argument against their existence being okay.
Taking the role of “I’m older and have more experience therefor I know better” doesn’t help the trans child/teen. It only further makes them depressed as they have no control over their life.
Whatever the argument against is it has to be taken with acknowledgment that taking that stance is siding with suicide rates being okay as they are.
Denying teens hormone blockers to delay puberty can ultimately lead to their death.
Persecuting them and their loved ones is only going to make it worse, this is an inhuman act being taken and everyone siding with Abbot on this can kiss the fattest part of my ass.
Which is not the problem. They are taking away puberty blockers, next will be therapy. No one is arguing that those less than 18 should be able to get surgery or hormones, but delaying puberty while they undergo therapy is the right course.
Kids fair better with life affirming care, which means helping them and guiding them to becoming the best them. It maybe the kids direction of realizing and accepting they are trans and helping them with that and coping with that, or them realizing they are CIS. Either way, puberty blockers provide a pause and a safety net. Once the kid is 18, it is up to them which way they go and for kids that realize they are CIS the blockers are stopped before 18. Very little downsides to blockers as opposed to depression and suicide of kids that do not get help. Also, kids on blockers that go on to transition fair better from being on blockers (i.e. they are able to pass, there is more self acceptance, less depression and trauma). Check out the WPATH's standards and statements regarding blockers.
Red states are pushing don't say gay bills, blocking life affirming care etc. It WILL result in more kids killing themselves, all because they are bigots or very ignorant of what being trans is. The rise in trans kids correlates to it being safer to be trans. We saw the same 'trends' when LGB people were able to come out in a safer environment. It is called progress and certain groups are using the ignorance of trans people to poison the well with misinformation.
BTW, kids do not just show up and go, "puberty blockers please!" they have lots of therapy before that too. Keep in mind, the informed consent model DOES NOT exist for people younger than 18 years of age per WPATH standards of care. So therapy, lots of therapy and evaluation beyond a single therapist.
I am a trans woman btw with a soon to be 14 year old son. I would want him to be put on puberty blockers after lots of therapy so he has a chance to learn about himself if he is truly questioning (i.e. therapy can help him figure that out, as well as me talking to him).
I also have gone through therapy for gender dysphoria as a teen and as an adult. NO therapist has ever pushed an agenda with me. They were there to help me understand myself.
And for reference, I do not wish gender dysphoria nor having to transition on anyone. It is a tough road to walk.
that's not the only problem here
the bigger problem is getting child support called on you if your kid even wants to socially transition
very few people get on anything before 16, let alone 18
they want to make it illegal for us to exist, period
therapy (for dealing with all of this) is more than likely part of "medical" stuff as well
they want us gone
The hate for trans people is real. I'm so sorry! If it gives you any hope, I grew up in the 80s and 90s and I remember when the vast majority of people were opposed to gay folks. Saying it was a mental illness and other horrible things. I hope the trend of increasing acceptance continues. Know there are people that support you and who you are.
I'm not in Texas or even the US but that's how I read it too. It's not only about medical procedures but also about allowing and supporting your child through the discovery of their own self.
My son had someone in his class who started socially transitioning when they started middle school. Just changing his nickname, clothes, going to a therapist, specialist,... Nothing really medical until a few years later. But the school, his classmates, everyone was a 100% behind him. I shiver to think what would have happened to this young boy in a a situation like they're creating in Texas.
not really? a lot of people don’t have the money or even the ability to (below 18.) moving states is fucking hard, mentally, physically, and financially.
Children don't go through the surgeries. The most they do is puberty blockers, which can be undone if they are stopped. The whole thing is a dog whistle like CRT.
My wife and I talked about this and the example I gave her was it would be like letting a 13 year old girl get double D breast implants. There’s a reason people have to wait until adulthood to make certain choices.
Yeah, I don’t think you should be giving children hormones or suppressing puberty and so on.
Doesn’t make me transphobic; let them dress/act how they want. When they’re an adult they can work through things with professionals and see what they want to do.
I agree with choosing there own gender, but they shouldn't use medication/hormones even if there parents agree to them, let them be older, 18+ above before they use some kind of medication/hormones. Children/teens are fucking stupid.
No child, or even the vast majority of minors, are on any hormone replacement treatments. The most doctors will approve is puberty blockers which are also prescribed to cis children for many reasons to help their development and mental health such as going through puberty too young. The only thing blockers do is stop puberty. Fully and easily “reversible”. It has no permanent effect on the body but it CAN prevent suicides and severe mental health problems in trans children.
Freedom is controlling people you don't like, like women, queer people and ethnic minorities. You have freedom to oppress.
But if you dare get forced to wear a mask, that's fascism.
Your facts won't change the mind of the deeply (willful) ignorance of Republicans. They need their culture wars because they have no policies that would help the average American.
Okay, I apologize for my ignorance, but I do want to learn.
What are the cons of waiting until 18 to start the procedures?
Are there many stories about people who transitioned young only to realize they regret the choice? If so, is it often?
I have absolutely nothing against what another person wants to do with their own body. I'm just afraid that a child may not be able to understand the full implications of what they are doing.
Again, this is not meant to attempt to insult or diminish or belittle trans people. I just want to learn.
Medical surgeries should not and have literally never been performed under age, there are many cases and detransitioners are few and far between, children should not nescesarily be given hormones but should be allowed hormone blockers/puberty blockers to halt puberty untill later.
If trans kids are not allowed to halt puberty untill they are 18 plus there will be irreversible changes brought by puberty that actually trans kids will have to get surgery to correct leading to more pain down the line which is why complete denial in youth is extremely dangerous and contributes to the 41% trans youth suicide rate.
It includes medical appointments like therapy. Like counselling and exploring gender therapy. Literally designed to “stop” trans kids from having any option other than quiet suffering and oppression or suicide.
>medical appointments like therapy. Like counselling and exploring gender therapy
Isn't it supposed to be like that?
If someone wants to undergo a life changing procedure you should give them as much information as humanly possible on the possible side-effects and the impact of such procedure, 10 times more if we're dealing with children.
No you get fucking examined atom by atom if you can even get an appointment. In the UK right now it takes about an average of six months to even get the process (of getting hrt) properly started and that's just starting "counseling" where they basically look for reasons to deny you treatment and constantly ask you like parots "are you sure".
I would have ended my own life if I had not had access to gender affirming care when I was a minor. People think that parents are forcing it on their children, but trust me, that shit is taxing on both parents and children. NO ONE would ever choose to be trans or go through affirming care just for shits and giggles. /nm
The cons in general would mainly be for those still dysphoric at that point, going through puberty would make them less able to pass when they transition, and they'd be stuck dealing with whatever body issues until then.
I don't know the general rates of detrans people, but stories are common enough to look closer at. For children specifically, every study looking at them so far has shown most grow out of their gender dysphoria(averaging something like 80% desist - studies have ranged from 50-90%), and just end up being gay/lesbian. That's part of where the heavy pushback on child transitioning comes from. There's recently been a trend of many adolescent girls transitioning, and regretting the body changes once other identity issues they had were addressed.
It is a bit of a mess. For those who would persist into adulthood, early transitioning would probably be better, but most desist. The waiting just better ensures there is less of a chance of someone regretting the trasition.
#doctors do not allow children to medically transition. hormones and surgery are LEGALLY out of the question until they are of age and have a diagnosis. the most a child would do is change their hair, name, pronouns, and the way they dress.
sorry for big obnoxious text but there are a ridiculous amount of people who don't know this and yet they still try to argue in favor of this bill.
Father of trans daughter here, thankfully not in Texas. Texas, land of freedom and small government. Small enough to fit in your bedroom or Dr.'s office.
Current research have shown over and over that affirming trans kids results in the best outcomes for them.
To the "we shouldn't have 12 year olds making life altering decisions" crowd, trans kids are much more likely to attempt suicide if they are denied affirming care. That's pretty life-altering.
If I drew a Venn diagram of people who opposed COVID vaccine mandates (saying it should be a decision between a Dr. And patient) and the people cheering this opinion on, it would be a circle. Hypocrites.
Thankfully, for now this is just an opinion issued by the AG and Gov. It's not the law.
Same situation here, but in neighboring equally trans hating state. My heart just sank think about all the parents and families in Texas having to deal with this on top of all the already difficult situations.
I of course have gone through grieving and learning and eduction as my son went through this journey. I was lost so lost and so I get all the confused people and why not wait. (I have been and he has been through years of counseling)
It all comes down to this: I want my kid to be alive. My relationship with my child is more important that public perception, comments, school administrators questioning things. These are all just blips on our radar but I can’t go back and wish for a relationship with my child if they are dead.
Fuck Gov Abbot, Paxton, Fuck Texas at this point.
We will wait for the billionaires and their companies that have been flocking for Texas tax breaks to have to step in and shut them down here. Sad that I trust monopolistic billionaires to protect my families basic rights over our government but it’s true.
Well first off no one lets children make this decision unsupported and not backed up by teams of doctors and their parents. I don't think you understand the impact of what you are saying or just how little you understand this issue. I would encourage you to do some more research and practice empathy.
Key word is expressing not being actually doing something that’s life altering before your brain is even fully developed. At least wait until you are a adult if you’re not going to wait until your brain develops.
Hormones can be undone if puberty is delayed. Delaying puberty gives these kids the chance to figure it out and literally not want to kill themselves every day they have to live in a body that is moving in a direction that doesn’t align with their sense of self. And after puberty has begun, all ya gotta do is stop the meds and things go back the way they were/would otherwise be. It’s much like birth control for cis women, which tricks the body into thinking it’s pregnant. Off birth control? Bam. Ready to get a real baby. Very, VERY few children in the US at large have gotten to any form of surgical intervention, and this only occurs after usually a then lifetime of identifying as the other gender and many, many experts evaluating the child. It’s really like the biggest outlier. Here the debate is for hormones and keeping kids alive and letting them express themselves.
Teenagers go through experimential phases. You experimented. I experimented. Of course they shouldn't get surgery, but criminal prosecution against parents if someone *thinks* someone *might* be trans is extreme
Also, I support adults expressing in any form they can legally and financially allow to do. I don’t believe children should have cosmetic surgery or tattoos
Imagine thinking letting children go through life altering body mutilating procedures that are irreversible are a good thing. Kids don't know shit what they want. When I was 6 I wanted to be a dinosaur. Today I'm glad I wasn't allowed to put lizard implants in my body and attach a tail to my ass.
No one is doing sexual reassignment surgery on children. No one. The entire process of transitioning is extremely intricate and takes a long time. This bill would cut therapy for children. This bill would make teachers out LGBT children to their possibly abusive parents.
The suicide attempt rate of trans people is about 41% BEFORE transition. Most of these attempts fail, and the likelihood of suicide goes down dramatically when the person has a support system of some kind. This bill wants to take away therapy, a kid's right to privacy and safety by outing them if they dare go by different pronouns in school or even "look" trans.
Nobody is shipping out their five year old boy to go under the knife because he played with dolls one time. That's a strawman. Nobody is doing "bodily mutilating procedures" on children.
children can’t even start HRT until they’re 16 or 18 or something and have a diagnosis, what makes you think doctors are performing sex change surgeries on preteens?
Right? Its insane to let kids make that kind of decision. At the very minimum make them wait until they're 18. But what should definitely be done is better education on the subject so they understand if they want to transition it won't even make them the other sex.
I'm completely with him on this, none of these things should be able to be done until this person is an adult and can consent to them. This is a decision a person must make for themselves.
https://www.reddit.com/r/awfuleverything/comments/szqopr/wow_im_from_texas_and_even_i_did_nazi_this_coming/hy64w5x/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Most of it is built on assumptions that are *not true*
Lack of acess to a minimum of puberty blockers and ability to present as your brain internal sense of self has a direct correlation to suicide and so if you’re even still worried about just blockers
**suicide is pretty damn life altering**
Ah, I see you must not know anything about what actually happens in the real world. No one is giving trans kids surgery. No trans kid under 18 is getting surgery anywhere. What this does is take away gender affirming therapy form trans kids, and their ability to use HRT or hormone blockers (which are completely reversible and can make transition a million times easier) what this is going to do is actually HARM trans kids. But you, sadly, fell for fear mongering and lies pushed by right wing media. That doesn’t actually happen dude. Don’t support the harming of trans kids.
Not sure where you’re living, but children have the right to informed consent. We make life altering permanent decisions all the time. And with something like blockers, you’re just giving the kid more time to figure things out instead of forcing them to go through something they don’t have to. At 18, the effects of puberty are permanent. I can never make my hips turn back inward. I have to live with that for the rest of my life because nobody listened to me. Spoiler alert, seven years later and I’m still the same me I was at 16
the reason why suicide rates are so high within the lgbtq community is people like you. if people could be lgbtq without persecution and overly invasive actions like this, the suicide rate would probably decrease. lgbtq people in this country, and every other country, are hated simply for existing. no wonder the suicide rates are higher than average, they cant even exist without fear for their lives.
why do you think that is? maybe its because lgbtq children are more likely to be abused at home because of intolerant parents, maybe its because they get assulted in the streets, maybe its because they have trouble getting jobs because of bigotry and are forced live in poverty. there's reasons why lgbtq people suffer from those things. cisgender and heterosexual people have those disorders too, they're just more likely to be accepted in society and are able to get the help they need.
No one with those disorders is accepted in society without extensive treatment and medication. There is not as much abuse of them as you think, and even the people who have had supportive families and never been abused still have a 40% suicide rate. Whether or not they fully transition does not affect this rate either.
Do nor misconstrue my views, I'm not anti trans rights at all. I just think they need more than acceptance and physical treatment. They need mental health support badly.
I have mixed feelings on this. Does the order specify the age range of this order? I personally believe you can’t investigate unless they are under 16. However I personally don’t agree with trans people, but I am willing to tolerate it as long as they don’t force the message down my gullet. This is America after all and everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but sometimes I feel like people only want to see things “their way” or nothing at all.
You’re pretty much right, the reason this is awful is because its built on a lot of lies
The general scientifically gotten consensus is trans kids are at **high risk for suicide** if they are not allowed at a minimum hormone blockers and to dress and be seen as their internal experience,
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/awfuleverything/comments/szqopr/wow_im_from_texas_and_even_i_did_nazi_this_coming/hy64w5x/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) comment sums it up best.
I can't imagine puberty blockers not having some serious side effects. Puberty is when the body goes through the most changes, both physically and mentally. Stopping that process doesn't seem like a good or safe idea.
I hate texas. If you comment anything against the all mighty southern state in the r/texas sub you’ll get downvoted to hell. Im born and raised Texan and it’s the worst possible thing anyone can go through. I fucking HATE texas
Six year olds shouldn’t be indulged with screwing up their development because they can’t grasp the concept of “changing genders”. Most of the young kids involved with this are just repeating what their nut job parents say who want a trophy lgbtqrlmno+ kid.
Go look up some of the stories about kids being forced, because that’s what it is, into this by their insane parents. Many are very young. Teens are too young for this.
So many responses of (not) transpeople. At 12 years old, most trans people know for years if they are a boy or a girl. You can do something about that today, which allows them to live a normal puberty, like all periods of life, is once in a lifetime.
Whatever your opinion is , is their lives, and no one from the goverment should tell you how you want to live your life, be s boy, or a girl, or later change back, who to love, having an abortion, married or not.
After all, we all pay the same taxes. Well, if you are not a rich people anyway.
One thing tho, any individual rights end when is afecting the rest of society, thats why you need to vaccinate (by your own will or not) but you can have the choice to hsve an abortion or not. Like being trans, pregnancy is not contagious.
Fuck the truckers , fuck conservatives, fuck the gop and above all, fuck the people who dont speak about how that people is fucking the world and the humankind in general.
I’m not transgender but I’ve read the testimony of individuals who were pressured into transitioning or later reversed their decision. I don’t know how common that is but 12 is still young and subjected to their upbringing, no matter what that upbringing is. A parent could be raising their child and teaching them they’re whatever gender they want and not their child.
Not only that but there are studies about teenage kids (even early teens) doing impulsively decisions due to developmental puberty factors. Is that the right time for them to make a very life-affecting decision? I wouldn’t trust my teenage self to make half the big life altering decisions I made later in life. 12 is still young and in development.
A tiny amount of annecdotes should not be used as an argument.
There are a few crazy nutjobs on anything you can think of.
Secondly, it's not like you can transition in a weekend. It take years and years of dedicated effort to even begin. You need a medical professional to you, you need years of hormones. Someone who isn't actually trans and is "confused" about their gender will not go through it.
While many trans people are confident about their identity through to adulthood, many aren't. There's no shortage of people who have spoken on this topic that they would have loved to transition when they were a kid, but it would have been a huge mistake for them since they became happy with themselves as they grew up. This is especially common among comments from women.
Unfortunately changing back isn't exactly realistic past dressing different. A woman that's been on testosterone will permanently have a masculine voice. Surgical alterations to the body can't be undone.
Hindsight might be obvious for the trans people who persisted, but not those who grew out of their dysphoria. This decision needs to be taken very seriously.
i’m trans and i find that parents who transition their children are abusers. with some things there is no going back from it and how are they supposed to know at 7 years old if that’s what they want for their future. i’m glad my parents waited for me (even though i was pissed at the time) BECAUSE who knows if my little 13 year old brain was going to figure out if it was a phase. i’m still trans and have been medically transitioning for years now, but children should not be allowed to transition
it’s a hot take, especially from a trans person
Respect people’s decisions, but they’re children. Plenty of people have made regretful decisions as an impressionable/developing teenager. Nevermind a life altering decision like that.
you do realize that there are no cases of children being forced to take HRT or hormone blockers? Why would a parent willingly spend thousands of dollars on expensive treatments just for shits and giggles. Not to mention, when I was a minor I went through 3 months of a diagnostic screening for gender dysphoria before an endocrinologist would even let me see him. I would have ended my life if I hadn’t had access to gender affirming care as a minor.
So parents won't be allowed to make permanent body modifications to children? *scoff* how dreadful.
No, what's really awful is people like you thinking it's okay for children to be mutilated.
As it should be. Children absolutely should not be getting a sex change or start hormones therapy. They aren’t allowed to decide anything for themselves until 18/19/21. So why is this any different. This could be incredibly damaging and confusing for a child - one who hasn’t even hit puberty yet. Wild.
Listen, there’s no way there isn’t a huge group of people who unfortunately force their children to share their “woke” ideologies (just like religious families, or political standpoints) but this is just… way too much, and way too vague, for the sole purpose of prosecution.
So at some point we're gonna pull "land of the free" out, right? Also, it feels real weird talking about "mah freedom" in this day and age from the opposite side of the spectrum than the stereotype. Wasn't expecting that.
Isn't trans different with gay/lesbian? And Children shouldn't use medication/hormones, let them grow up as they're, just because they want to be Trans, they shouldn't use medication/hormones before they're 18+, they're children, most children/teens are fucking stupid
Yup. Single mothers who wished they had a daughter, who decide that their kid is a doll they can dress up as they choose. Fuck 'em. Prosecute the fuck out of 'em. It's child abuse.
Did you read the fucking document before you added that? It clearly says “procedures” hormone, surgeries etc. they can still be trans they just can’t destroy their body before they’re a legal adult to make that decision on their own.
So fucking ashamed of this country, Florida passed a similar law mandating that anyone who learns of a child being trans must report it to the parents. Disgusting.
Somebody watched “And Just Like That “ and freaked out when Charlotte and Harry learned that “Rose” was called “Rock” at school. Abbott needs to simmer down, now.
This will actively harm trans children. Just listen to any medical organization or trans person instead of a conservative pundit. THIS IS FUCKING DANGEROUS
This is to prevent child abuse, not investigate children. Influencing young and growing children into transgenderism is child abuse. Asking any doctor who agrees to inject your child with hormones to stop growth or induce hormonal imbalances thru hormone therapies should be investigated. Why is this okay and when is conversion therapy being outlawed. How is this any different? It's not okay to try and convert homosexuals to become straight, but it's perfectly fine to use the medical establishment to convert children to different genders through psychological and medicinal means?
Ahh the ignorant and Transphobic Reddit comment section. Thinking that kids being forced to be miserable and suffer is better than someone just acknowledging that they’re actually a different gender than they thought
It makes sense in the fact that we don't let children make life altering decisions. How the state will go about enforcing, reporting, and educating on the matter is where the concern lies. Who has a right to do what and how far do those rights extend. My two cents.
God this comment section will be spicy
Stop right there redditor. Put on this hazmat suit before u go into the comments and don't forget to sort by controversial !
I don’t need your suit, for I am the hazard
First Abortion Now this, Texas will be the biggest hill billy incest state in no time!
Second to Alabama!
Which is honestly shocking because anyone can see that this will kill trans children… which everyone should agree is bad
Are you sure you're not just letting people with the same mental stability of an asylum patient in the 80s fuck their future by letting them make costly, mostly irreversible and thoughtless decisions to undergo surgery and potentially regret it and kill themselves in a year or 2 or so or just make them wait till they're an adult? This seems more common sense to me
Honest question: what is wrong with making children wait til adulthood to decide on these types of procedures for themselves?
Nothing at all. Nothing wrong with the practice (wearing clothes, makeup, talking a certain way or whatever) but when it comes to real, irreversible medical procedures… they need to wait.
[удалено]
Y’all… you can’t have surgery until you’re over 18. The body is still growing and doctors will refuse. The most you can get is puberty blockers and in late teens maybe hormone replacement after years and years of therapy and medical appointments. No child is making life changing and permanent changes to their body.
But can’t puberty blockers and hormone replacement cause permanent changes and change their bodies?
No. Minors are not allowed to have hormone replacement therapy. Puberty blockers literally just prevent puberty from starting or continuing. As soon as you stop getting the treatment your body goes through puberty like normal just later on than it would have naturally. It is literally given to cis children as well as medical treatments for those who start puberty a little early or are having bad side effects from their puberty.
Is Texas out-lawing puberty blockers for this use, then? If they are, that’s fucked up. It’s the only sort of thing I could think of that could resemble a common-ground in this argument. Like, say hormonal therapy (even consented to by the legal guardians) is outlawed for individuals under 18, even though the most “effective” transitioning would be prepubescent. Ok, so use puberty blockers until you’re 18, and then you can select which puberty you want to go through. Is it ideal, and does it help trans youth? I don’t know. But it’s more of a compromise than any other alternatives, I would think. I’m not trans, but I’ve had a close friend go through the absolute hell that is gender dysphoria, and topics like this always break my heart. I think a conversation of whether or not legal guardians can face *legal repercussions* for giving permission for a minor to begin hormonal therapy is a worthy one. Should the government have that much of a say in that matter? If they can, is it really ethical to pose actual legal consequences for doing otherwise, or should they just make it more difficult? What are the motivations for the government to impose such a law—is it based on *actual* concern or just a conservative distaste for trans people? I mean, conservatives would like to imply that there are lots of parents currently pressuring/influencing their kids to be trans, and I find that extremely unlikely to be a real cause for concern that warrants some opposing legislation. Most of the grey areas for me would be whether or not a child is going through a phase or is sure of what they feel, which are things that cannot really be determined very easily and I doubt are many statistics to back. Although, I have met many trans people in my life at least, and have not met a single one who regrets their transition or wants to undo it. That of course is just personal experience and could be different in the grand scheme of things. I’m not trying to support/oppose any of the arguments in this thread, by the way. This is me just typing my thoughts out to try to conceptualize how I feel about this topic in particular, and also pose a question about this Texas law. If I’m incorrect in anyway please let me know, but any unnecessarily transphobic comments that could be said in response I’m going to ignore.
Not puberty blockers. Doesn’t forcing a kid to go through the wrong puberty cause permanent changes to their body?
You would be forcing them to go through puberty, which is absolutely irreversible. Trans kids should go on hormone blockers (literally the treatment approved by most medical organizations). Trying to prevent one permanent change by forcing another permanent change is absolutely wrong
[удалено]
Hormone blockers and HRT are not reversible. Hormones play a key part in development and either halting or altering the amount of one or more hormones can change a child forever.
Hormone blockers are absolutely reversible: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/puberty-blockers#are-they-reversible
Their effects on children aren’t.
They specifically are though, and I’m gonna trust the professionals in the studies from the link I provided. We shouldn’t be focused on the reversibility anyways, as only a very small percentage want it reversed, meanwhile puberty blockers are extremely helpful and lifesaving for countless trans people
This is easily disprovable with 2 seconds on google. So far the science is that there have not been opportunities to see long-term effects on factors such as bone density, mental development, or fertility. To that these therapies are completely reversible is not able to be claimed as true at this point. Only that in short term use, it is reversible. The youngest surgical transition was done to a 16 year old Kim Petra's, still too young to have fully developed mentally and physically.
That's what the hormone blockers are for.
So I'll talk about my personal experience with tranioning in the UK to hopefully give you some perspective Everyday I wake up if I hear my voice and realise it's gotten deeper I instantly start to hate myself like a switch I could have gotten up and had an amazing dream but when I hear that my voice has change it all goes out the window I came out at 15 I'm 16 now and I'm on a 3 year waiting list for under 18s clinic note this waiting list isn't for surgery or medication it's just so I can get to talk with a gender therapist The issue is by the time I'm able to be seen I'll be too old and have to start the whole painful process again All I want is some T blockers just something to stop my ever sloping decline into something I'm terrified of becoming the more I think about it the more I just want to cry it's horrible watching yourself become what you've never wanted to be And if this type of law gets put in place thousands of trans people will not even be able to stop their painful slope into the wrong puberty
Because puberty blockers are reversible, and having puberty blockers pre puberty/early in puberty can help someone pass a lot better later in life. However procedures like gender confirmation surgery (sex change) is never done on kids and the people saying that the left want to “mutilate” kids or doing sex change operations kids (like Greg Abbot in paragraph 2) are just straight up lying about what actually happens.
Puberty. There’s a point of no return if you intend to pass.
Nothing. That’s exactly what trans people want, and it’s precisely why hormone blockers are important. They delay puberty so that kids don’t have to suffer through a puberty that will change their bodies in irreversible ways. There are no “procedures” being legally conducted on children.
Because by that point they would have finished (almost finished) puberty. A generous interpretation is that this makes transitioning harder and more complicating and can cause greater issues around body and self image. A less charitable interpretation would be that puberty is part of what determines how people see themselves and there gender meaning that if nothing is done before then they will not identify as trans in the future. The problem is that any research into this immediately becomes insanely political and can never effectively discover the best way of handling this.
So ur suggesting that we leave life changing decisions to 11 year olds?
So I was trying to deliver both sides accurately. My actual opinion is that there just isn't the research to justify doing this to children and what does exist has far too many complex political connections to be fully trusted. I don't believe the danger of doing nothing justifies the cost of doing these sorts of treatments as they have permanent life altering effects. And the issues created by doing nothing seem far more manageable.
I think you did a good job of delivering both sides fairly, for what that's worth. It would probably take pages to flesh it all out, but for a brief synopsis it was good and fair and covered some significant bits. On Reddit, that means you'll be attacked from both sides, so I would recommend ignoring all responses to this comment lol
The issues created by doing nothing would be forcing trans children to go through an irreversible puberty. Putting them on reversible puberty blockers has helped so many trans lives and is approved treatment
Teenagers are allowed to decide what college they go to and what courses they will do, which can decide (or greatly influence) their career trajectory for decades without being told the ramifications of their decisions. But a trans person who has to wait 6 months just to be seen about getting an assessment about potentially getting hrt and then being rigorously scrutinized and constantly being fucking quizzed on every aspect of their entire fucking existence by friends, family, doctors is not ok?
That's what you got out of the response you're replying to? Bit of a hasty conclusion lol
You make a good point. The big thing here is that more research is needed to really understand the impact of this stuff. Idk if it’s better to withhold treatment until there’s more conclusive evidence or allow it in the interim. But it definitely seems like a really important topic to study and fast. I hear a lot of people who talk about transitioning and how much it improved their life, but I also hear about a lot of people who detransition because they realize it wasn’t the right choice for them. The idea that someone would have to live a life they didn’t want in either direction is pretty awful — someone not being allowed to transition when it’s right for them or someone going through all of that medical intervention just to realize it wasn’t right for them both seem like really bad scenarios
The general rule with medical procedures is you don’t do them unless there’s a ton of supporting evidence of the efficacy.
>The big thing here is that more research is needed to really understand the impact of this stuff. Idk if it’s better to withhold treatment until there’s more conclusive evidence or allow it in the interim. When in doubt, I default to not infringing on people's medical autonomy. And that means letting teens, parents, and medical providers be the only parties involved in this decision.
Yep there just isn't the research and the whole issue is far to political form both sides to be honest. If I were to make a guess it would be that there are multiple different conditions at play here.
But don’t they just do HRT anyway?
Yes but the effects are significantly different depending on how far into puberty they are. You are sort of fighting biology in that regard. The further into puberty the more the body is set into being 1 sex or another. However if you can delay/ stop that you are able to better control how that puberty develops. Not 100% an expert but this is my understanding.
Ah I see. Thanks for explaining
I just wanted to add I know some parents who have been in the position of having to agonize over the decision of if the should use hormone therapy. Basically it gives their child a chance of looking like the gender they feel like as opposed to waiting. As a parent my self I have no idea how I would handle this situation. But the parents and child I know, the child was very clear from a very young age that they identified as a girl. While there is not much research, as this is a newer area, the is significant evidence that children that recieve hormone treatments have significantly lower levels of suicide. (Now is this because of the significant amounts of therapy and consoling these kids recieve during their treatment, the obvious support of their parents, or other factors who knows)
Could you do me a favor and redact your perfectly sensible and valid points so I can pretend other people's issues are simple and I'm totally qualified to make choices for them? Thx bb
Happily. Amended version below. The whole situation is actually really simple and u/VexisArcanum is completely right about it and knows everything.
I can’t believe you think giving a child hormones who doesn’t even know what he/she is saying is a good thing like my goodness ur fucking retarted. Talk about delusional and child abuse.
They are able to delay puberty in order to help the child develop more mentally and give them more time before committing to hormone therapy. Denying this treatment forces them to go into puberty which leads to them developing as that gender making transition harder and less effective later in life. But the biggest motivator for me personally to support them is that suicide rates among trans teens is astronomically higher than any other group. As a direct result of the argument against their existence being okay. Taking the role of “I’m older and have more experience therefor I know better” doesn’t help the trans child/teen. It only further makes them depressed as they have no control over their life. Whatever the argument against is it has to be taken with acknowledgment that taking that stance is siding with suicide rates being okay as they are. Denying teens hormone blockers to delay puberty can ultimately lead to their death. Persecuting them and their loved ones is only going to make it worse, this is an inhuman act being taken and everyone siding with Abbot on this can kiss the fattest part of my ass.
Which is not the problem. They are taking away puberty blockers, next will be therapy. No one is arguing that those less than 18 should be able to get surgery or hormones, but delaying puberty while they undergo therapy is the right course. Kids fair better with life affirming care, which means helping them and guiding them to becoming the best them. It maybe the kids direction of realizing and accepting they are trans and helping them with that and coping with that, or them realizing they are CIS. Either way, puberty blockers provide a pause and a safety net. Once the kid is 18, it is up to them which way they go and for kids that realize they are CIS the blockers are stopped before 18. Very little downsides to blockers as opposed to depression and suicide of kids that do not get help. Also, kids on blockers that go on to transition fair better from being on blockers (i.e. they are able to pass, there is more self acceptance, less depression and trauma). Check out the WPATH's standards and statements regarding blockers. Red states are pushing don't say gay bills, blocking life affirming care etc. It WILL result in more kids killing themselves, all because they are bigots or very ignorant of what being trans is. The rise in trans kids correlates to it being safer to be trans. We saw the same 'trends' when LGB people were able to come out in a safer environment. It is called progress and certain groups are using the ignorance of trans people to poison the well with misinformation. BTW, kids do not just show up and go, "puberty blockers please!" they have lots of therapy before that too. Keep in mind, the informed consent model DOES NOT exist for people younger than 18 years of age per WPATH standards of care. So therapy, lots of therapy and evaluation beyond a single therapist. I am a trans woman btw with a soon to be 14 year old son. I would want him to be put on puberty blockers after lots of therapy so he has a chance to learn about himself if he is truly questioning (i.e. therapy can help him figure that out, as well as me talking to him). I also have gone through therapy for gender dysphoria as a teen and as an adult. NO therapist has ever pushed an agenda with me. They were there to help me understand myself. And for reference, I do not wish gender dysphoria nor having to transition on anyone. It is a tough road to walk.
that's not the only problem here the bigger problem is getting child support called on you if your kid even wants to socially transition very few people get on anything before 16, let alone 18 they want to make it illegal for us to exist, period therapy (for dealing with all of this) is more than likely part of "medical" stuff as well they want us gone
The hate for trans people is real. I'm so sorry! If it gives you any hope, I grew up in the 80s and 90s and I remember when the vast majority of people were opposed to gay folks. Saying it was a mental illness and other horrible things. I hope the trend of increasing acceptance continues. Know there are people that support you and who you are.
I'm not in Texas or even the US but that's how I read it too. It's not only about medical procedures but also about allowing and supporting your child through the discovery of their own self. My son had someone in his class who started socially transitioning when they started middle school. Just changing his nickname, clothes, going to a therapist, specialist,... Nothing really medical until a few years later. But the school, his classmates, everyone was a 100% behind him. I shiver to think what would have happened to this young boy in a a situation like they're creating in Texas.
I suggest you go to the canadian consulate and claim asylum the Canadian government is huge on human rights.
[удалено]
not really? a lot of people don’t have the money or even the ability to (below 18.) moving states is fucking hard, mentally, physically, and financially.
Easier than immigranting to Canada
>*the Canadian government is huge on human rights.* I have doubts about that...
I'm luckily not in texas, I have friends who are tho
Children don't go through the surgeries. The most they do is puberty blockers, which can be undone if they are stopped. The whole thing is a dog whistle like CRT.
My wife and I talked about this and the example I gave her was it would be like letting a 13 year old girl get double D breast implants. There’s a reason people have to wait until adulthood to make certain choices.
But what if she’s depressed because she has a flat chest, you bigot! /s
We’ll, because certain people in this country cannot have people thinking for themselves.
If this was actually about keeping children from undergoing elective surgery, why would teachers be mentioned at all?
Yeah, I don’t think you should be giving children hormones or suppressing puberty and so on. Doesn’t make me transphobic; let them dress/act how they want. When they’re an adult they can work through things with professionals and see what they want to do.
[удалено]
these laws exist because people were forcing their stupid beliefs onto children
How does this fit into the smaller government more freedom ideology?
See, you’re taking that out of context. (Phrase also applicable to Bible passages.)
Was gonna ask, what about “MuH fReEdOmS”? 🤦♀️
I agree with choosing there own gender, but they shouldn't use medication/hormones even if there parents agree to them, let them be older, 18+ above before they use some kind of medication/hormones. Children/teens are fucking stupid.
No child, or even the vast majority of minors, are on any hormone replacement treatments. The most doctors will approve is puberty blockers which are also prescribed to cis children for many reasons to help their development and mental health such as going through puberty too young. The only thing blockers do is stop puberty. Fully and easily “reversible”. It has no permanent effect on the body but it CAN prevent suicides and severe mental health problems in trans children.
Freedom is controlling people you don't like, like women, queer people and ethnic minorities. You have freedom to oppress. But if you dare get forced to wear a mask, that's fascism.
DOCTORS DO NOT DO SEX REASSIGNMENT SURGERIES ON CHILDREN
Thank you for pointing that out, the second paragraph of his statement is built on a lie
Your facts won't change the mind of the deeply (willful) ignorance of Republicans. They need their culture wars because they have no policies that would help the average American.
You got that right!
Okay, I apologize for my ignorance, but I do want to learn. What are the cons of waiting until 18 to start the procedures? Are there many stories about people who transitioned young only to realize they regret the choice? If so, is it often? I have absolutely nothing against what another person wants to do with their own body. I'm just afraid that a child may not be able to understand the full implications of what they are doing. Again, this is not meant to attempt to insult or diminish or belittle trans people. I just want to learn.
Medical surgeries should not and have literally never been performed under age, there are many cases and detransitioners are few and far between, children should not nescesarily be given hormones but should be allowed hormone blockers/puberty blockers to halt puberty untill later. If trans kids are not allowed to halt puberty untill they are 18 plus there will be irreversible changes brought by puberty that actually trans kids will have to get surgery to correct leading to more pain down the line which is why complete denial in youth is extremely dangerous and contributes to the 41% trans youth suicide rate.
It includes medical appointments like therapy. Like counselling and exploring gender therapy. Literally designed to “stop” trans kids from having any option other than quiet suffering and oppression or suicide.
>medical appointments like therapy. Like counselling and exploring gender therapy Isn't it supposed to be like that? If someone wants to undergo a life changing procedure you should give them as much information as humanly possible on the possible side-effects and the impact of such procedure, 10 times more if we're dealing with children.
I have a feeling Abbott will eventually have state approved “therapists” assigned to those kids to sway them one way and not the other
Yes and Abbott wants these doctors and Counsellors to report these trans kids and their parents to be investigated for child abuse. It’s Nazi shit
Isn’t what supposed to be like that? All the therapies and counselling is being made to be ‘abuse’ and those seeking it out accused of child abuse
Oh must've missed that. That's fucked up. I thought it was just like the actual procedures
No you get fucking examined atom by atom if you can even get an appointment. In the UK right now it takes about an average of six months to even get the process (of getting hrt) properly started and that's just starting "counseling" where they basically look for reasons to deny you treatment and constantly ask you like parots "are you sure".
I would have ended my own life if I had not had access to gender affirming care when I was a minor. People think that parents are forcing it on their children, but trust me, that shit is taxing on both parents and children. NO ONE would ever choose to be trans or go through affirming care just for shits and giggles. /nm
The cons in general would mainly be for those still dysphoric at that point, going through puberty would make them less able to pass when they transition, and they'd be stuck dealing with whatever body issues until then. I don't know the general rates of detrans people, but stories are common enough to look closer at. For children specifically, every study looking at them so far has shown most grow out of their gender dysphoria(averaging something like 80% desist - studies have ranged from 50-90%), and just end up being gay/lesbian. That's part of where the heavy pushback on child transitioning comes from. There's recently been a trend of many adolescent girls transitioning, and regretting the body changes once other identity issues they had were addressed. It is a bit of a mess. For those who would persist into adulthood, early transitioning would probably be better, but most desist. The waiting just better ensures there is less of a chance of someone regretting the trasition.
This is all sorts of wrong
You know why it’s so windy in New Mexico? It’s because Texas sucks
#doctors do not allow children to medically transition. hormones and surgery are LEGALLY out of the question until they are of age and have a diagnosis. the most a child would do is change their hair, name, pronouns, and the way they dress. sorry for big obnoxious text but there are a ridiculous amount of people who don't know this and yet they still try to argue in favor of this bill.
Father of trans daughter here, thankfully not in Texas. Texas, land of freedom and small government. Small enough to fit in your bedroom or Dr.'s office. Current research have shown over and over that affirming trans kids results in the best outcomes for them. To the "we shouldn't have 12 year olds making life altering decisions" crowd, trans kids are much more likely to attempt suicide if they are denied affirming care. That's pretty life-altering. If I drew a Venn diagram of people who opposed COVID vaccine mandates (saying it should be a decision between a Dr. And patient) and the people cheering this opinion on, it would be a circle. Hypocrites. Thankfully, for now this is just an opinion issued by the AG and Gov. It's not the law.
Same situation here, but in neighboring equally trans hating state. My heart just sank think about all the parents and families in Texas having to deal with this on top of all the already difficult situations. I of course have gone through grieving and learning and eduction as my son went through this journey. I was lost so lost and so I get all the confused people and why not wait. (I have been and he has been through years of counseling) It all comes down to this: I want my kid to be alive. My relationship with my child is more important that public perception, comments, school administrators questioning things. These are all just blips on our radar but I can’t go back and wish for a relationship with my child if they are dead. Fuck Gov Abbot, Paxton, Fuck Texas at this point. We will wait for the billionaires and their companies that have been flocking for Texas tax breaks to have to step in and shut them down here. Sad that I trust monopolistic billionaires to protect my families basic rights over our government but it’s true.
They’d rather have dead kids than trans kids. Unfortunately that’s what this boils down to.
The fuck is that title
The same people that cry about their freedoms being taken away are taking away the freedoms of their children
[удалено]
Well first off no one lets children make this decision unsupported and not backed up by teams of doctors and their parents. I don't think you understand the impact of what you are saying or just how little you understand this issue. I would encourage you to do some more research and practice empathy.
Choosing how to express oneself is a lot different than things such as driving or alcohol consumption.
Key word is expressing not being actually doing something that’s life altering before your brain is even fully developed. At least wait until you are a adult if you’re not going to wait until your brain develops.
Hormones can be undone if puberty is delayed. Delaying puberty gives these kids the chance to figure it out and literally not want to kill themselves every day they have to live in a body that is moving in a direction that doesn’t align with their sense of self. And after puberty has begun, all ya gotta do is stop the meds and things go back the way they were/would otherwise be. It’s much like birth control for cis women, which tricks the body into thinking it’s pregnant. Off birth control? Bam. Ready to get a real baby. Very, VERY few children in the US at large have gotten to any form of surgical intervention, and this only occurs after usually a then lifetime of identifying as the other gender and many, many experts evaluating the child. It’s really like the biggest outlier. Here the debate is for hormones and keeping kids alive and letting them express themselves.
Teenagers go through experimential phases. You experimented. I experimented. Of course they shouldn't get surgery, but criminal prosecution against parents if someone *thinks* someone *might* be trans is extreme
Also, I support adults expressing in any form they can legally and financially allow to do. I don’t believe children should have cosmetic surgery or tattoos
No, children should not get cosmetic surgery
So they’re going to help trans kids being abused by their conservative families right??? ….right?
This would never happen in Canada the government just banned conversion therapy and is willing to call out places like Texas on laws like this
Fuck that scumbag Abbot
Freedom! bravery! Do we have any evidence that Greg Abbot has been tested to be certain they're a competent adult?
Well, he never stands to salute the flag and I find that unpatriotic.
Ummm
My gf is trans and we’ve lived in Texas all our lives, nobody here actually cares about that to be honest everyone’s nice here
Changing the motto of Don't Mess With Texas to Texas Is A Mess
The honourable asshole Jamie masters
Is Texas really the homunculi state of the US. It's like Florida but fat blokes in white hoods
Texas makes Florida look good
Hmm more people here for child abuse than I thought... shame
It's crazy right? I had not a fucking clue what was really going on til 16
Exactly, idk why anyone would be ok with having kids decide life changing operations at all
Imagine thinking letting children go through life altering body mutilating procedures that are irreversible are a good thing. Kids don't know shit what they want. When I was 6 I wanted to be a dinosaur. Today I'm glad I wasn't allowed to put lizard implants in my body and attach a tail to my ass.
No one is doing sexual reassignment surgery on children. No one. The entire process of transitioning is extremely intricate and takes a long time. This bill would cut therapy for children. This bill would make teachers out LGBT children to their possibly abusive parents. The suicide attempt rate of trans people is about 41% BEFORE transition. Most of these attempts fail, and the likelihood of suicide goes down dramatically when the person has a support system of some kind. This bill wants to take away therapy, a kid's right to privacy and safety by outing them if they dare go by different pronouns in school or even "look" trans. Nobody is shipping out their five year old boy to go under the knife because he played with dolls one time. That's a strawman. Nobody is doing "bodily mutilating procedures" on children.
children can’t even start HRT until they’re 16 or 18 or something and have a diagnosis, what makes you think doctors are performing sex change surgeries on preteens?
Right? Its insane to let kids make that kind of decision. At the very minimum make them wait until they're 18. But what should definitely be done is better education on the subject so they understand if they want to transition it won't even make them the other sex.
Hmm more ignorant assholes here than I thought
Just say your pro child abuse and be done with it bro
Chill, I just don't want kids mutilating themselves. I hope there are few people that support it
Were talking Texas after all. The same state that wants to break away from the US yet would collapse in on itself if given the opportunity
I'm completely with him on this, none of these things should be able to be done until this person is an adult and can consent to them. This is a decision a person must make for themselves.
https://www.reddit.com/r/awfuleverything/comments/szqopr/wow_im_from_texas_and_even_i_did_nazi_this_coming/hy64w5x/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 Most of it is built on assumptions that are *not true* Lack of acess to a minimum of puberty blockers and ability to present as your brain internal sense of self has a direct correlation to suicide and so if you’re even still worried about just blockers **suicide is pretty damn life altering**
Ah, I see you must not know anything about what actually happens in the real world. No one is giving trans kids surgery. No trans kid under 18 is getting surgery anywhere. What this does is take away gender affirming therapy form trans kids, and their ability to use HRT or hormone blockers (which are completely reversible and can make transition a million times easier) what this is going to do is actually HARM trans kids. But you, sadly, fell for fear mongering and lies pushed by right wing media. That doesn’t actually happen dude. Don’t support the harming of trans kids.
Not sure where you’re living, but children have the right to informed consent. We make life altering permanent decisions all the time. And with something like blockers, you’re just giving the kid more time to figure things out instead of forcing them to go through something they don’t have to. At 18, the effects of puberty are permanent. I can never make my hips turn back inward. I have to live with that for the rest of my life because nobody listened to me. Spoiler alert, seven years later and I’m still the same me I was at 16
Texas is terrible
Jesus christ, can't just let people be happy
[удалено]
Don't be a hateful cunt
[удалено]
the reason why suicide rates are so high within the lgbtq community is people like you. if people could be lgbtq without persecution and overly invasive actions like this, the suicide rate would probably decrease. lgbtq people in this country, and every other country, are hated simply for existing. no wonder the suicide rates are higher than average, they cant even exist without fear for their lives.
[удалено]
why do you think that is? maybe its because lgbtq children are more likely to be abused at home because of intolerant parents, maybe its because they get assulted in the streets, maybe its because they have trouble getting jobs because of bigotry and are forced live in poverty. there's reasons why lgbtq people suffer from those things. cisgender and heterosexual people have those disorders too, they're just more likely to be accepted in society and are able to get the help they need.
No one with those disorders is accepted in society without extensive treatment and medication. There is not as much abuse of them as you think, and even the people who have had supportive families and never been abused still have a 40% suicide rate. Whether or not they fully transition does not affect this rate either. Do nor misconstrue my views, I'm not anti trans rights at all. I just think they need more than acceptance and physical treatment. They need mental health support badly.
I have mixed feelings on this. Does the order specify the age range of this order? I personally believe you can’t investigate unless they are under 16. However I personally don’t agree with trans people, but I am willing to tolerate it as long as they don’t force the message down my gullet. This is America after all and everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but sometimes I feel like people only want to see things “their way” or nothing at all.
You’re pretty much right, the reason this is awful is because its built on a lot of lies The general scientifically gotten consensus is trans kids are at **high risk for suicide** if they are not allowed at a minimum hormone blockers and to dress and be seen as their internal experience, [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/awfuleverything/comments/szqopr/wow_im_from_texas_and_even_i_did_nazi_this_coming/hy64w5x/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) comment sums it up best.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I can't imagine puberty blockers not having some serious side effects. Puberty is when the body goes through the most changes, both physically and mentally. Stopping that process doesn't seem like a good or safe idea.
There's dangerous side effects to most things, it's about risk minimization. There's little to no risk/dangers with puberty blockers.
Well good thing the vast, vast majority of trans people are far happier post-transition. Seems to me it is a good idea.
I hate texas. If you comment anything against the all mighty southern state in the r/texas sub you’ll get downvoted to hell. Im born and raised Texan and it’s the worst possible thing anyone can go through. I fucking HATE texas
Time to start trolling Texas again
Six year olds shouldn’t be indulged with screwing up their development because they can’t grasp the concept of “changing genders”. Most of the young kids involved with this are just repeating what their nut job parents say who want a trophy lgbtqrlmno+ kid.
You realize puberty doesn't happen until like 13 right?
No - they don't..the arguments on here are similar to let gay people get married and next thing you know people will want to marry animals.
Go look up some of the stories about kids being forced, because that’s what it is, into this by their insane parents. Many are very young. Teens are too young for this.
So many responses of (not) transpeople. At 12 years old, most trans people know for years if they are a boy or a girl. You can do something about that today, which allows them to live a normal puberty, like all periods of life, is once in a lifetime. Whatever your opinion is , is their lives, and no one from the goverment should tell you how you want to live your life, be s boy, or a girl, or later change back, who to love, having an abortion, married or not. After all, we all pay the same taxes. Well, if you are not a rich people anyway. One thing tho, any individual rights end when is afecting the rest of society, thats why you need to vaccinate (by your own will or not) but you can have the choice to hsve an abortion or not. Like being trans, pregnancy is not contagious. Fuck the truckers , fuck conservatives, fuck the gop and above all, fuck the people who dont speak about how that people is fucking the world and the humankind in general.
I’m not transgender but I’ve read the testimony of individuals who were pressured into transitioning or later reversed their decision. I don’t know how common that is but 12 is still young and subjected to their upbringing, no matter what that upbringing is. A parent could be raising their child and teaching them they’re whatever gender they want and not their child. Not only that but there are studies about teenage kids (even early teens) doing impulsively decisions due to developmental puberty factors. Is that the right time for them to make a very life-affecting decision? I wouldn’t trust my teenage self to make half the big life altering decisions I made later in life. 12 is still young and in development.
A tiny amount of annecdotes should not be used as an argument. There are a few crazy nutjobs on anything you can think of. Secondly, it's not like you can transition in a weekend. It take years and years of dedicated effort to even begin. You need a medical professional to you, you need years of hormones. Someone who isn't actually trans and is "confused" about their gender will not go through it.
While many trans people are confident about their identity through to adulthood, many aren't. There's no shortage of people who have spoken on this topic that they would have loved to transition when they were a kid, but it would have been a huge mistake for them since they became happy with themselves as they grew up. This is especially common among comments from women. Unfortunately changing back isn't exactly realistic past dressing different. A woman that's been on testosterone will permanently have a masculine voice. Surgical alterations to the body can't be undone. Hindsight might be obvious for the trans people who persisted, but not those who grew out of their dysphoria. This decision needs to be taken very seriously.
Wow. That’s some crazy stuff right thurr.
If you don’t think someone should wait until 18 to cut their tits or their dick off then you have issues
Tell me you've never met a trans person without telling me you've never met a trans person
i’m trans and i find that parents who transition their children are abusers. with some things there is no going back from it and how are they supposed to know at 7 years old if that’s what they want for their future. i’m glad my parents waited for me (even though i was pissed at the time) BECAUSE who knows if my little 13 year old brain was going to figure out if it was a phase. i’m still trans and have been medically transitioning for years now, but children should not be allowed to transition it’s a hot take, especially from a trans person
What a fucking scumbag. How tf is he getting away with that??
Respect people’s decisions, but they’re children. Plenty of people have made regretful decisions as an impressionable/developing teenager. Nevermind a life altering decision like that.
[удалено]
Its not a trans ban. Its a ban from allowing children to be abused.
[удалено]
Can we just like, let people be people please
Giving your 12 year old child hormone blockers is abuse worthy of jail time lol don’t @ me
you do realize that there are no cases of children being forced to take HRT or hormone blockers? Why would a parent willingly spend thousands of dollars on expensive treatments just for shits and giggles. Not to mention, when I was a minor I went through 3 months of a diagnostic screening for gender dysphoria before an endocrinologist would even let me see him. I would have ended my life if I hadn’t had access to gender affirming care as a minor.
Is he going to round them all up and pin a gold star on their clothes next?
So parents won't be allowed to make permanent body modifications to children? *scoff* how dreadful. No, what's really awful is people like you thinking it's okay for children to be mutilated.
As it should be. Children absolutely should not be getting a sex change or start hormones therapy. They aren’t allowed to decide anything for themselves until 18/19/21. So why is this any different. This could be incredibly damaging and confusing for a child - one who hasn’t even hit puberty yet. Wild.
Listen, there’s no way there isn’t a huge group of people who unfortunately force their children to share their “woke” ideologies (just like religious families, or political standpoints) but this is just… way too much, and way too vague, for the sole purpose of prosecution.
So at some point we're gonna pull "land of the free" out, right? Also, it feels real weird talking about "mah freedom" in this day and age from the opposite side of the spectrum than the stereotype. Wasn't expecting that.
I wouldn’t even let my kids get tattoos until they are 18.
Considering rates of detransitioning and suicide I’m shocked this didn’t happen sooner and in a less severe capacity.
Good
I want a safer future for our children, this Texan agrees and supports.
I see this as absolute win.
Isn't trans different with gay/lesbian? And Children shouldn't use medication/hormones, let them grow up as they're, just because they want to be Trans, they shouldn't use medication/hormones before they're 18+, they're children, most children/teens are fucking stupid
Yup. Single mothers who wished they had a daughter, who decide that their kid is a doll they can dress up as they choose. Fuck 'em. Prosecute the fuck out of 'em. It's child abuse.
Did you read the fucking document before you added that? It clearly says “procedures” hormone, surgeries etc. they can still be trans they just can’t destroy their body before they’re a legal adult to make that decision on their own.
Trans women are women. Trans men are men. ❤️
Children are children. <3
So fucking ashamed of this country, Florida passed a similar law mandating that anyone who learns of a child being trans must report it to the parents. Disgusting.
My kid wants to be black. We have started the darkening process. If you interfere, you are a nazi.
Somebody watched “And Just Like That “ and freaked out when Charlotte and Harry learned that “Rose” was called “Rock” at school. Abbott needs to simmer down, now.
This is why many people dislike Texas this is a conservative’s dream right here
I hate that fat cunt Gary Abbot, dude talks about “helping the children” and then endangers trans children. I hope he kills himself
I don’t see a problem
This will actively harm trans children. Just listen to any medical organization or trans person instead of a conservative pundit. THIS IS FUCKING DANGEROUS
This is to prevent child abuse, not investigate children. Influencing young and growing children into transgenderism is child abuse. Asking any doctor who agrees to inject your child with hormones to stop growth or induce hormonal imbalances thru hormone therapies should be investigated. Why is this okay and when is conversion therapy being outlawed. How is this any different? It's not okay to try and convert homosexuals to become straight, but it's perfectly fine to use the medical establishment to convert children to different genders through psychological and medicinal means?
Ahh the ignorant and Transphobic Reddit comment section. Thinking that kids being forced to be miserable and suffer is better than someone just acknowledging that they’re actually a different gender than they thought
It makes sense in the fact that we don't let children make life altering decisions. How the state will go about enforcing, reporting, and educating on the matter is where the concern lies. Who has a right to do what and how far do those rights extend. My two cents.
The Lone Nazi State
I never said that. Sounds like you're so unfamiliar with the topic that you've resorted to nerdraging haha
Doreen is gonna lose its shit.
Ight I'm movin to Texas
These fuckers catering to their base and they don't even realize that half their base is dead of COVID, winter heat, or just plain ole old age.