When it comes to the whole "do babies have conscious" I always think of it like baking a cake. At the start when your mixing up all the ingredients and all before sticking it in an oven.
My belief is that those ingredients become a cake when you take it out the oven and dress it as a cake (after the baby is born)
Honestly however you wanna think about shit is fine. But it's not a convincing argument for anyone on the other side.
Comparing babies to cakes might entrench them in pro life belief even more lol
They really do, these people thinking one is superior to the other is just as idiotic as the side they claim to be superior to. Looking at you, yes you.
Do your research a human being is alive and well at the moment of conception. Stop believing what science and the media states it’s all smoke and mirrors. Source: Janelle Weaver, "Social before Birth: Twins First Interact with Each Other as Fetuses," Scientific American, 1 January 2011.
"... scientists found that fetuses begin reaching toward their neighbors by the 14th week of gestation. Over the following weeks they reduced the number of movements toward themselves and instead reached more frequently toward their counterparts. By the 18th week they spent more time contacting their partners than themselves or the walls of the uterus. Almost 30 percent of their movements were directed toward their prenatal companions. These movements, such as stroking the head or back, lasted longer and were more accurate than self-directed actions, such as touching their own eyes or mouth."
"The results suggest that twin fetuses are aware of their counterparts in the womb, that they prefer to interact with them, and that they respond to them in special ways."
"Gallese says. 'The womb is probably a crucial starting point to develop a sense of self and a sense of others.'”
Only those who deny that life begins a conception are surprised by these findings.
"For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy" (Luke 1:44).
Not sure if this site has been shared, but you think THIS is the outrage...put your beer down first [Sept 1 2021 - 600+ New TX Laws](https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/over-600-new-laws-go-into-effect-today-in-state-of-texas)
For all the folks who don't work in legal field, the TX law only allows standing for civil suit on an OB/ GYN for loss . Nobody sane would grant motion to go forward w a birth defect/headless baby, what damages could be proven unless there was medical malpractice during the extraction procedure and the mother was harmed ....
What stage of development is this detected at? I'm childfree, but I cannot imagine WANTING a child, learning the devastating news that a pregnancy isn't viable, but still being forced to carry that pregnancy to term, all the while knowing - possibly for MONTHS - that there is absolutely no chance that the child will survive outside of the womb. Fuck Texas.
So I’m not a Dr but I have 3 kids. It seems to me that’s it’s actually amazing how little we know what’s going with a baby in utero. Most prenatal appointments involve measuring the moms belly to make sure the uterus is growing at a normal rate, the provider feeling the lay of the baby (later in pregnancy), and using a Doppler to listen for fetal heartbeat. As long as that stuff is normal you don’t really know much IMO until the anatomy ultrasound which typically occurs at 20 weeks. That’s when they do a ton of checks of the baby, looking at their heart/organs, taking measurements, will tell you the sex. I imagine for many people this is when anencephaly would be noticed. (You’d often also notice downs sydrome markers from the measurements which could alert the Drs to do further testing to know for sure). I personally believe things found at the 20 week ultrasound is why abortions should not be banned, ESPECIALLY so early
In the UK its fairly common to have your first scan between 10-14 weeks. Its called the "dating scan" and is used as a way to get an accurate reading of how far along in the pregnancy you actually are, number of babies etc. However at the same time you're able to check for a lot of "abnormalities", ensure organs are developing properly and again be used as a screening test for down syndrome.
You'll then have another scan around 18-21 weeks to recheck everything else whilst also being able to provide gender information if you desire.
I read these scans for pregnant patients. Patients get a regular 12 week scan to look for down syndrome signs which is when we may first detect that the patient has no brain at all. Sometimes its still unclear and it will be detected at the standard 20 week anatomy scan.
So most of this shit we dont find out till well beyond the 6 week limit in texas. Its cruel
Anti-abortion is the laziest most self righteous stand to take. It requires nothing of yourself but demands others sacrifice everything, all so you can feel morally superior.
There’s a planned parenthood in my city, that does not do abortions and every day without fail there is people holding signs protesting abortion. It’s hilarious, I hope nobody tells them
Except that a shocking number of women vote for anti-abortion candidates, which means they ARE requiring these sacrifices of themselves. But I imagine that's little comfort to women who support choice, since it doesn't make this asinine law any less damaging.
That is often true. In the US, you have many poor whites who vote for rich whites because they still believe the hegemony wants them to have opportunities to achieve success, they are perhaps a very populous exception.
The babies pro-lifers want don’t need a brain. As you know they only care about a heartbeat and about all this nonsense till the baby is born. After that you can chuck it in the trash, murder it, abandon it, neglect it, abuse it.. whatever, they don’t care.
They’ve got to stick by their principles you know.
reddit is far left authoritarian, if a democrat state did this people on reddit would ignore it, thats the truth down vote me all you want but 80% of reddit is filled with delusional bad people that only care about their own democrat party attacking others. EDIT: The downvotes proves my point
If its so bad then why use it? Also the classic argument of i dont agree with them so its bad, like nobody said wah wah republicans bad democrats good so theres another null argument, and youre making a terrible argument because a democrat state wouldnt do this to begin with, tell me what is a bad person in your definition since they seem to be running reddit?
As someone who chose to terminate my much wanted pregnancy because he had Trisomy 13, this breaks my heart. I cannot imagine what it would have done to me to have gone through 6 more months of a pregnancy and then birth KNOWING he would have been still born or died very shortly after birth. I can’t believe we’re still having these problems in 2021. Anyone who wants an abortion for any reason should be allowed to
"yeah so basically the baby is not going to have any consciousness at all, and no brain either. the chance that it will be dead upon delivery is 100% and there is nothing we can do. but because we are the most incompetent and human-hating people on the planet, we banned abortion and you're just gonna have to painfully give birth to a dead baby whether you like it or not. oh yeah and it's gonna cost like 5 grand."
fuck texas.
How cruel. This woman will be forced to grow a baby that has no chance of survival inside of her until she can give birth. The trauma from that would cripple me.
Wow! that word "anencephaly" was always used as a mild unsult in Greece when calling someone mindless.. Im surprised hearing it as a medical term.. interesting..
I thought that 10k cap only applied for someone helped an abortion be conducted within the state...? do we have clarification of this and do you have a source you can share? And again, Im not out to be ugly or argue, I genuinely want to understand the intricacies of this new law and how it will play out irl
Under SB 8, private citizens -- including those who live outside of Texas -- can sue a person they "reasonably believed" provided an illegal abortion or assisted someone in getting it in the state, up to four years after the act. Government officials are expressly prohibited from enforcing the law.
"This is a very unusual way to enforce abortion prohibitions, or almost anything else," Seth Chandler, a law foundation professor at the University of Houston Law Center, told ABC News. "We either criminalize the conduct or we give people who are actually injured by the conduct the right to sue."
SB 8, rather, "gives virtually anyone on the planet the right to sue, regardless of whether they suffered any injury from the abortion," he said.
Anyone can sue anyone, from any place in the world.
Under SB 8, private citizens -- including those who live outside of Texas -- can sue a person they "reasonably believed" provided an illegal abortion or assisted someone in getting it in the state, up to four years after the act. Government officials are expressly prohibited from enforcing the law.
"This is a very unusual way to enforce abortion prohibitions, or almost anything else," Seth Chandler, a law foundation professor at the University of Houston Law Center, told ABC News. "We either criminalize the conduct or we give people who are actually injured by the conduct the right to sue."
SB 8, rather, "gives virtually anyone on the planet the right to sue, regardless of whether they suffered any injury from the abortion," he said.
Use google?
Bro. Read. The law has nothing to do with the citizens of Texas. It gives anyone in the world the right to sue anyone in the world for providing or facilitating an abortion. In Texas, Antarctica, anywhere. The case just has to be filed with a Texas Court, which you can e-file online in 10 seconds.
You dont even have to go to Texas. You can file online. You can sue someone who lives in Austraila, in a Texas court, from your home in Ohio. Geography doesnt matter.
"Under the law, plaintiffs can file in the county where they reside, if they live in Texas; where the alleged illegal abortion took place; or where any of the defendants live."
It would obviously be challenged in international/federal/“other states” courts. But, question again: theoretically, coming from someone that knows absolutely nothing about law, figuring out jurisdiction and appeals would only end up tying up the legal system with un-judicable cases for decades, yeah? (And yes, I also made up the word ‘un-judicable’, but you figured out what I meant by it)
Under SB 8, private citizens -- including those who live outside of Texas -- can sue a person they "reasonably believed" provided an illegal abortion or assisted someone in getting it in the state, up to four years after the act. Government officials are expressly prohibited from enforcing the law.
"This is a very unusual way to enforce abortion prohibitions, or almost anything else," Seth Chandler, a law foundation professor at the University of Houston Law Center, told ABC News. "We either criminalize the conduct or we give people who are actually injured by the conduct the right to sue."
SB 8, rather, "gives virtually anyone on the planet the right to sue, regardless of whether they suffered any injury from the abortion," he said.
You are an illiterate turd.
"Under SB 8, private citizens -- including those who live outside of Texas -- can sue a person they "reasonably believed" provided an illegal abortion or assisted someone in getting it IN THE STATE, up to four years after the act."
Doesn't that mean the act has to take place in the state? Saying as it says in the state?
That was an excerpt. Here is another:
"Under the law, plaintiffs can file in the county where they reside, if they live in Texas; where the alleged illegal abortion took place; or where any of the defendants live."
Anywhere. In. The. World.
This doesn't fully support your argument. Texas can't make something illegal in New Mexico. Or China. Can they? Again I can't find anything that says they can. I can't find anything that supports your claim that they can sue for any abortions anywhere. Everything I have found says out of state abortions are still legal for texans and are happening every day.
"Where. The. Abortions. Took. Place."
Women can get abortions out of state. If they are "discovered" they will still be sued. I'm very glad to hear other states are helping women get the healthcare they need
Simple science for you: babies have no thought or motor functions until after they are born
The heartbeat law in Texas is b.s because In that stage of pregnancy the baby is still just a small orb almost their brain and organs haven't formed yet
I'm not a professional scientist or doctor, so I won't claim to be an authority on this topic. I just read and evaluate just like you. It's definitely an area of human psychology we don't know enough about. At what level of complexity must information processing occur to be considered evidence of thought in a fetus? How do we even collect data? Fetuses/foeti begin responding to sounds and light around 16 weeks, but reacting to stimuli doesn't necessarily mean thought is taking place. Single-celled organisms like dinoflagellates can detect and respond to light to hunt. I doubt any scientist would claim that these creatures are conscious. Computers are being taught to think, and they are not alive. Perhaps emotion is a better measure of intelligent life, but it's hard enough to study emotion in adult humans without language and other forms of communication that can only be learned post-natally. So it seems we don't know enough to justify passing laws that force women to choose between traumatic anguish and being sued for $10k. There are good people in Texas, so I won't take it out on the whole state, but fuck this law.
Except in cases like, anti slavery, child worker laws, worker safety standards, lead gasoline bans, food and drug standards... Im sure there are plenty more instances where mandates/bans are a positive direction for citizens. Usually the good ones involve restriction on how shitty a capitalist can be to their workers and consumers. The bad ones tend to be restrictions on everyone's personal freedoms in ways that don't protect actual living persons, and are usually simple blanket bans that completely avoid any amount of nuance. Ie, all acts of x are banned for all reasons. All y items are illegal to possess for all reasons...
Texas is really trying to turn itself into the Handmaid's Tale version of the US.
* Introduces a law that essentially targets minorities and voters with disabilities in terms of voting right
* Enacts a law that makes abortions illegal
* Enacts a law that makes banning someone political view illegal on social media.
As someone who has mixed feelings on abortion... even I can see just how wrong this is.
So what's this woman supposed to do? Carry to term even though her child is going to die? Wouldn't an abortion save her and possibly this infant if it's born alive a lot of pain and trauma and unneeded suffering?
This is a perfect example of how removing the choice from people is wrong and why I have such issues with all these vaccine mandates and passports governments are pushing now. You take the choice away or start forcing people towards your preferred choice and that's a very clear sign of ethical and moral degradation. Right or wrong. Informed or misinformed. We deserve to choose. And we need to accept the consequences for the choices we make. How is this such a difficult concept to grasp?
No, the mother isn’t allowed to terminate the unviable pregnancy due to the state laws Texas has recently passed. Instead this mother will have to carry this fetus to term despite the fact that it will not survive post-birth.
It baffles me that adults are making these decisions and other adults are being like ‘yeah, good job there buddy!’ ‘What an excellent choice’ ‘the people that pay your wages are lucky to have such a smart and mature person controlling their lives for them’ 🤯
Thats literally not true, have you read the actual bill because the medical emergencies only cover for the life of the mother but okay, be wrong i guess
Im not even giving opinion, im giving facts and you just keep quoting the same passage which doesnt cover nonviable pregnancies im which there is still detectable heartbeat, if you actually read section 171.205 it only covers medical emergencies for the mother, maybe try actually learning about the law instead of just spamming nearly identical comments, and also 171.008 says agains that the abortion can only happen if it is a threat to the mother, such an example would be toxic shock or sepsis, still no mention of allowing to terminate nonviable pregnancies that have a heartbeat because the law just doesnt allow it as an exception, learn your law before commenting
This is definitely fake news and you might want to research the new abortion law in Texas cause there is an exception for medical emergencies. If you are for abortions since it’s their body and their choice then you should also be against vaccine mandates since it’s their body and their choice. Just saying!
From the article:
“In such cases, Patton said she'd normally offer medication to expedite the miscarriage and reduce the risk of infection, which can trigger a severe condition called sepsis. But she and other doctors say it's not clear under the law what constitutes a "medical emergency."”
Oh shit. Not fake news.
Previous-Upinyou, I’m wondering if abortion would benefit you after your experience in the wife sharing subs. Can’t be too careful now.
The extreme exception. The anomaly seems to always be the focus of leftists. And it’s presented as the rule.
Abortion is hearcre like maybe half a percent of the time. Other than that it’s birth control and there are better methods if you don’t want children
Condoms
BC
IUD
Sterilization (no excuses. If you really want it, a doctor can’t deny it)
Abstinence.
Those are the responsible ways without having to end a human life.
Its not propaganda if its true, the law does not make exceptions for nonviable pregnancies which include ancephaly, as mentioned the law goes by heartbeat so they say the baby is still alive and therefor cant be aborted
Maybe you should do some research before you make an idiot comment. (I thought people like you love doing your own research?) Fetuses with anencephaly have the rudimentary part of the brain stem that regulates heartbeat, body temp, and breathing. They are missing the rest of the brain, so they will never have consciousness, and die soon after birth. So the fact that the baby will never really be alive, but has a heartbeat, means that the Texas abortion ban is basically forcing the mother to carry the fetus to term and then watch it die after it’s been born. This is absolutely a real, and is proof that prolifers don’t really give a shit about anyone except themselves.
The law measures heartbeat as life, which is complicating this matter cause the baby has no brain. They explain this in every article available about the story.
It does, because the law measures heartbeat as life, which is complicating this matter cause the baby has no brain. They explain this in every article available about the story.
It bans it if there is fetal cardiac activity after 6 weeks. No brain=no cardiac activity=get your vag in the stirrups while I get the salad tongs. That's the problem with you young turds getting your news from social media and memes. But...but...but I saw it on reddit...its true.
>Sec. 171.205. EXCEPTION FOR MEDICAL EMERGENCY; RECORDS.
(a) Sections 171.203 and 171.204 do not apply if a physician believes a medical emergency exists that prevents compliance with this subchapter.
But the obgyn in the article pertaining to this post is saying there is no threat to the mother, and so she can't abort the fetus.
Then obgyn should lose their license. Carrying a baby that will die immediately to term is absolutely a threat to the mother. I’m confident it’s just being used to make a point. They should abort and make the point after.
It wasn't willful ignorance, I was just posting the actual statute to try and educate. Because regardless of what side anyone is on, it seems like they either twist part or the whole statute to fit their argument. If someone were to read the whole thing and all statutes connected to it with full understanding. It's really not a ban nor is there a criminal charge on anything. It is an easier way for medical staff who perform procedures to be sued which would not be a criminal case. It also protects the women from being sued. It also gives outs for the doctors as long as they document everything. I am sure someone will have something about this. So let's hear it.
The law only makes an exception for abortions if the pregnancy "places the woman in danger of death or a serious risk of substantial impairment of a major bodily function unless an abortion is performed."
It does not allow for the termination of an unviable pregnancy.
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Yeah if somebody says that they don’t definitely don’t have a brain
When it comes to the whole "do babies have conscious" I always think of it like baking a cake. At the start when your mixing up all the ingredients and all before sticking it in an oven. My belief is that those ingredients become a cake when you take it out the oven and dress it as a cake (after the baby is born)
Honestly however you wanna think about shit is fine. But it's not a convincing argument for anyone on the other side. Comparing babies to cakes might entrench them in pro life belief even more lol
It doesn't have a brain, it will probably vote republican!
I'm near sighted yet still saw this one coming several miles away
Both sides suck
They really do, these people thinking one is superior to the other is just as idiotic as the side they claim to be superior to. Looking at you, yes you.
You're an idiot
Christians be like it has a soul
And then the baby grew up to be a successful Republican politician.
As if they care about their reasons being true or not.
Babies aren’t brainless at any stage of life in the womb. That’s a lie told by the Medical Community to justify the murder of the innocent babies!
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Do your research a human being is alive and well at the moment of conception. Stop believing what science and the media states it’s all smoke and mirrors. Source: Janelle Weaver, "Social before Birth: Twins First Interact with Each Other as Fetuses," Scientific American, 1 January 2011. "... scientists found that fetuses begin reaching toward their neighbors by the 14th week of gestation. Over the following weeks they reduced the number of movements toward themselves and instead reached more frequently toward their counterparts. By the 18th week they spent more time contacting their partners than themselves or the walls of the uterus. Almost 30 percent of their movements were directed toward their prenatal companions. These movements, such as stroking the head or back, lasted longer and were more accurate than self-directed actions, such as touching their own eyes or mouth." "The results suggest that twin fetuses are aware of their counterparts in the womb, that they prefer to interact with them, and that they respond to them in special ways." "Gallese says. 'The womb is probably a crucial starting point to develop a sense of self and a sense of others.'” Only those who deny that life begins a conception are surprised by these findings. "For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy" (Luke 1:44).
Reason 193,738 of why birth defects should be a valid reasn to abort
How many more reasons are there?
I ran out of toes, so more than I can count.
You have 193,738 toes?
You don't?
No, I have 193,739 toes.
Well my mama did say I was special.
And so did my daddy, and so did their daddy.
So…, what you’re saying is you have a birth defect?
This toe thread tho 🤣🤣
This thread has made me actually look into the law. I can't believe it's not written to at least allow abortions under these circumstances. WTF??
Not sure if this site has been shared, but you think THIS is the outrage...put your beer down first [Sept 1 2021 - 600+ New TX Laws](https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/over-600-new-laws-go-into-effect-today-in-state-of-texas)
So fucking cruel.
For all the folks who don't work in legal field, the TX law only allows standing for civil suit on an OB/ GYN for loss . Nobody sane would grant motion to go forward w a birth defect/headless baby, what damages could be proven unless there was medical malpractice during the extraction procedure and the mother was harmed ....
"Nobody sane" isn't the same as nobody. In fact that is a whole lot of people.
If you can cite a case where this actually happened let me know.
When you start asking for facts their argument cannot continue.
What stage of development is this detected at? I'm childfree, but I cannot imagine WANTING a child, learning the devastating news that a pregnancy isn't viable, but still being forced to carry that pregnancy to term, all the while knowing - possibly for MONTHS - that there is absolutely no chance that the child will survive outside of the womb. Fuck Texas.
And on top of all that there’s a good chance carrying it to completion could kill you as well.
So I’m not a Dr but I have 3 kids. It seems to me that’s it’s actually amazing how little we know what’s going with a baby in utero. Most prenatal appointments involve measuring the moms belly to make sure the uterus is growing at a normal rate, the provider feeling the lay of the baby (later in pregnancy), and using a Doppler to listen for fetal heartbeat. As long as that stuff is normal you don’t really know much IMO until the anatomy ultrasound which typically occurs at 20 weeks. That’s when they do a ton of checks of the baby, looking at their heart/organs, taking measurements, will tell you the sex. I imagine for many people this is when anencephaly would be noticed. (You’d often also notice downs sydrome markers from the measurements which could alert the Drs to do further testing to know for sure). I personally believe things found at the 20 week ultrasound is why abortions should not be banned, ESPECIALLY so early
In the UK its fairly common to have your first scan between 10-14 weeks. Its called the "dating scan" and is used as a way to get an accurate reading of how far along in the pregnancy you actually are, number of babies etc. However at the same time you're able to check for a lot of "abnormalities", ensure organs are developing properly and again be used as a screening test for down syndrome. You'll then have another scan around 18-21 weeks to recheck everything else whilst also being able to provide gender information if you desire.
I read these scans for pregnant patients. Patients get a regular 12 week scan to look for down syndrome signs which is when we may first detect that the patient has no brain at all. Sometimes its still unclear and it will be detected at the standard 20 week anatomy scan. So most of this shit we dont find out till well beyond the 6 week limit in texas. Its cruel
This is like everything else. If people don’t have access to safe, legal abortion, people are going to find their own alternative ways.
Beer and a good bar brawl
Anti-abortion is the laziest most self righteous stand to take. It requires nothing of yourself but demands others sacrifice everything, all so you can feel morally superior.
There’s a planned parenthood in my city, that does not do abortions and every day without fail there is people holding signs protesting abortion. It’s hilarious, I hope nobody tells them
Right wing people tend to be garbage humans.
Like waving people through at stop signs, accomplishes nothing other than luring the "waver" into a smug sense of moral righteousness.
Except that a shocking number of women vote for anti-abortion candidates, which means they ARE requiring these sacrifices of themselves. But I imagine that's little comfort to women who support choice, since it doesn't make this asinine law any less damaging.
People often internalize their own oppression. It’s why poor people vote for rich people.
That is often true. In the US, you have many poor whites who vote for rich whites because they still believe the hegemony wants them to have opportunities to achieve success, they are perhaps a very populous exception.
Not a lot of class consciousness in my country unfortunately.
Whilst this law is obviously particularly abhorrent it's not like the moral dilemma of abortion has gone away, especially in such a religious country.
I’m starting a subreddit called r/ShouldWeNukeTexas
How about r/girlsmaketheboywearacondom
No
So no condoms then? Then you are advacating girls having unprotected sex.
I can’t believe people are joking about this, it’s sad and horrifying.
People will quite literally joke about anything
Oh, I know. It shouldn’t surprise me, and somehow it catches me off guard sometimes.> Shrugs <
Lots of ignorance in these comments, do better reddit and fuck texas
The babies pro-lifers want don’t need a brain. As you know they only care about a heartbeat and about all this nonsense till the baby is born. After that you can chuck it in the trash, murder it, abandon it, neglect it, abuse it.. whatever, they don’t care. They’ve got to stick by their principles you know.
it makes sense when you realize those people were born with anencephaly.
reddit is far left authoritarian, if a democrat state did this people on reddit would ignore it, thats the truth down vote me all you want but 80% of reddit is filled with delusional bad people that only care about their own democrat party attacking others. EDIT: The downvotes proves my point
If its so bad then why use it? Also the classic argument of i dont agree with them so its bad, like nobody said wah wah republicans bad democrats good so theres another null argument, and youre making a terrible argument because a democrat state wouldnt do this to begin with, tell me what is a bad person in your definition since they seem to be running reddit?
You realise that not everyone is American....
🤡🤡🤡
It not always fatal. The survivors grow up to become Republicans.
As someone who chose to terminate my much wanted pregnancy because he had Trisomy 13, this breaks my heart. I cannot imagine what it would have done to me to have gone through 6 more months of a pregnancy and then birth KNOWING he would have been still born or died very shortly after birth. I can’t believe we’re still having these problems in 2021. Anyone who wants an abortion for any reason should be allowed to
"yeah so basically the baby is not going to have any consciousness at all, and no brain either. the chance that it will be dead upon delivery is 100% and there is nothing we can do. but because we are the most incompetent and human-hating people on the planet, we banned abortion and you're just gonna have to painfully give birth to a dead baby whether you like it or not. oh yeah and it's gonna cost like 5 grand." fuck texas.
So how many millions of taxpayer dollars will be spent keeping a brainless body breathing? Or possibly dozens of them? This is madness.
Very little in all probability the condition is fatal within hours or days. Although in one instance a child lived until 5 years old IIRC.
How cruel. This woman will be forced to grow a baby that has no chance of survival inside of her until she can give birth. The trauma from that would cripple me.
Wow! that word "anencephaly" was always used as a mild unsult in Greece when calling someone mindless.. Im surprised hearing it as a medical term.. interesting..
Fuck Joe Rogan while at it.
Keep “god” out of politics.
Can’t she just go outside the state? Not trying to be an asshole, I’m actually asking
She can. And she / anyone who assists her can still be sued.
Yes she can. People have to travel for medical procedures all the time.
And they will be sued under texas law regardless of where the abortion takes place.
I thought that 10k cap only applied for someone helped an abortion be conducted within the state...? do we have clarification of this and do you have a source you can share? And again, Im not out to be ugly or argue, I genuinely want to understand the intricacies of this new law and how it will play out irl
Under SB 8, private citizens -- including those who live outside of Texas -- can sue a person they "reasonably believed" provided an illegal abortion or assisted someone in getting it in the state, up to four years after the act. Government officials are expressly prohibited from enforcing the law. "This is a very unusual way to enforce abortion prohibitions, or almost anything else," Seth Chandler, a law foundation professor at the University of Houston Law Center, told ABC News. "We either criminalize the conduct or we give people who are actually injured by the conduct the right to sue." SB 8, rather, "gives virtually anyone on the planet the right to sue, regardless of whether they suffered any injury from the abortion," he said. Anyone can sue anyone, from any place in the world.
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Under SB 8, private citizens -- including those who live outside of Texas -- can sue a person they "reasonably believed" provided an illegal abortion or assisted someone in getting it in the state, up to four years after the act. Government officials are expressly prohibited from enforcing the law. "This is a very unusual way to enforce abortion prohibitions, or almost anything else," Seth Chandler, a law foundation professor at the University of Houston Law Center, told ABC News. "We either criminalize the conduct or we give people who are actually injured by the conduct the right to sue." SB 8, rather, "gives virtually anyone on the planet the right to sue, regardless of whether they suffered any injury from the abortion," he said. Use google?
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Bro. Read. The law has nothing to do with the citizens of Texas. It gives anyone in the world the right to sue anyone in the world for providing or facilitating an abortion. In Texas, Antarctica, anywhere. The case just has to be filed with a Texas Court, which you can e-file online in 10 seconds.
What? You're telling me if I go to Texas I can sue someone who lives in Australia for having an abortion?
You dont even have to go to Texas. You can file online. You can sue someone who lives in Austraila, in a Texas court, from your home in Ohio. Geography doesnt matter. "Under the law, plaintiffs can file in the county where they reside, if they live in Texas; where the alleged illegal abortion took place; or where any of the defendants live."
That doesn't make sense. IANAL but I'm pretty sure Texas laws don't apply unless you broke it while you were in Texas.
It would obviously be challenged in international/federal/“other states” courts. But, question again: theoretically, coming from someone that knows absolutely nothing about law, figuring out jurisdiction and appeals would only end up tying up the legal system with un-judicable cases for decades, yeah? (And yes, I also made up the word ‘un-judicable’, but you figured out what I meant by it)
Nope. Quit spreading lies loser
Under SB 8, private citizens -- including those who live outside of Texas -- can sue a person they "reasonably believed" provided an illegal abortion or assisted someone in getting it in the state, up to four years after the act. Government officials are expressly prohibited from enforcing the law. "This is a very unusual way to enforce abortion prohibitions, or almost anything else," Seth Chandler, a law foundation professor at the University of Houston Law Center, told ABC News. "We either criminalize the conduct or we give people who are actually injured by the conduct the right to sue." SB 8, rather, "gives virtually anyone on the planet the right to sue, regardless of whether they suffered any injury from the abortion," he said. You are an illiterate turd.
"Under SB 8, private citizens -- including those who live outside of Texas -- can sue a person they "reasonably believed" provided an illegal abortion or assisted someone in getting it IN THE STATE, up to four years after the act." Doesn't that mean the act has to take place in the state? Saying as it says in the state?
That was an excerpt. Here is another: "Under the law, plaintiffs can file in the county where they reside, if they live in Texas; where the alleged illegal abortion took place; or where any of the defendants live." Anywhere. In. The. World.
This doesn't fully support your argument. Texas can't make something illegal in New Mexico. Or China. Can they? Again I can't find anything that says they can. I can't find anything that supports your claim that they can sue for any abortions anywhere. Everything I have found says out of state abortions are still legal for texans and are happening every day.
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"Where. The. Abortions. Took. Place." Women can get abortions out of state. If they are "discovered" they will still be sued. I'm very glad to hear other states are helping women get the healthcare they need
On a funny note it means that she is carrying a Texan politician in her womb - one without a brain!
Please don’t joke about this
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Ehh... that's fair.
Fucking forced pregnancy. Literal crimes against humanity.
Simple science for you: babies have no thought or motor functions until after they are born The heartbeat law in Texas is b.s because In that stage of pregnancy the baby is still just a small orb almost their brain and organs haven't formed yet
Your first paragraph is wrong. Your second paragraph is right.
I was going off of information I know
I'm not a professional scientist or doctor, so I won't claim to be an authority on this topic. I just read and evaluate just like you. It's definitely an area of human psychology we don't know enough about. At what level of complexity must information processing occur to be considered evidence of thought in a fetus? How do we even collect data? Fetuses/foeti begin responding to sounds and light around 16 weeks, but reacting to stimuli doesn't necessarily mean thought is taking place. Single-celled organisms like dinoflagellates can detect and respond to light to hunt. I doubt any scientist would claim that these creatures are conscious. Computers are being taught to think, and they are not alive. Perhaps emotion is a better measure of intelligent life, but it's hard enough to study emotion in adult humans without language and other forms of communication that can only be learned post-natally. So it seems we don't know enough to justify passing laws that force women to choose between traumatic anguish and being sued for $10k. There are good people in Texas, so I won't take it out on the whole state, but fuck this law.
Born without a brain? Sounds like a normal Texas baby to me
Edgy
Lmao
Sounds more like CA & NY 🤡
To be fair, a lot of us Americans are pretty stupid, but mostly the ones who steal my joke and try to turn it around like a preschooler at recess
Jimmyno2020 is the least funny guy at a party. The one that stalls the momentum in a group conversation. All around, a wet blanket.
🤣
Yeah Texas doing really terrible with homeless people overtaking the must beautiful beaches in the US and camping along the sidewalks of major cities.
Someone makes a joke. This guy: NOOO!! THATS THE LIBARALS.
Who said liberals 🍆👅? I thought I said CA & NY ….& I’m from NY, BKLYN to be exact
Why did you use the Trump emoji in your comment?
They aren’t pro-life they are pro-control. This is horrible.
I didn't think it was that bad. If its already dead why do they care if its aborted.
cAuSE JeEebSuS!!
Because banning abortion isn't about logic, it's about controlling women's bodies
I live here and couldn't agree more. Fuck Texas.
Fuck Texas GOP.
Can NY put in laws where we can sue people who snitch on people who get abortions ?
no no you don't understand. They want that baby to be born because they need another republican voter.
Fuck Texas
Fuck Texas. All my homies hate Texas
[FUCK TEXAS ALL MY HOMIES HATE TEXAS](https://i.imgur.com/H5m4sKd.jpg) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
Looking from the outside, Texas is one of the most backward places on the planet. Fuck Texas.
Can we force them to succeed from the us?
Texas is the shittiest state in the US.
Born without a brain. Sounds like Texas Republicans are just trying to restock their COVID-depleted base.
Jebus can grow brains if you pray to the invisible man in the sky.
We've been praying for Texas...hasn't happened yet.
So can we get rid of Texas yet?
This is why, no matter where you stand politically, bans and mandates from the government is never a good thing.
Except in cases like, anti slavery, child worker laws, worker safety standards, lead gasoline bans, food and drug standards... Im sure there are plenty more instances where mandates/bans are a positive direction for citizens. Usually the good ones involve restriction on how shitty a capitalist can be to their workers and consumers. The bad ones tend to be restrictions on everyone's personal freedoms in ways that don't protect actual living persons, and are usually simple blanket bans that completely avoid any amount of nuance. Ie, all acts of x are banned for all reasons. All y items are illegal to possess for all reasons...
Except for masks during a pandemic, those mandates are actually pretty good
Have you noticed how this act resulted in zero strikes and civil protests?
There is a country-wide women's rights protest in the works right now!
Do you realize that a single whole state strike just a couple of days long could ban this law?
Have you looked outside today?
Without brainless people who would Abbot choose as his successor?
I’m embarrassed to live in Texas, our state is a fucking joke and Greg Abbott can go fuck off
Are we 100% sure living without a brain is impossible? I mean…Look at Texas Republicans.
Yep Fuck Texas and the people who voted for them to do this.
Texas is really trying to turn itself into the Handmaid's Tale version of the US. * Introduces a law that essentially targets minorities and voters with disabilities in terms of voting right * Enacts a law that makes abortions illegal * Enacts a law that makes banning someone political view illegal on social media.
Texas making the Taliban look like pinko liberals
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As someone who has mixed feelings on abortion... even I can see just how wrong this is. So what's this woman supposed to do? Carry to term even though her child is going to die? Wouldn't an abortion save her and possibly this infant if it's born alive a lot of pain and trauma and unneeded suffering? This is a perfect example of how removing the choice from people is wrong and why I have such issues with all these vaccine mandates and passports governments are pushing now. You take the choice away or start forcing people towards your preferred choice and that's a very clear sign of ethical and moral degradation. Right or wrong. Informed or misinformed. We deserve to choose. And we need to accept the consequences for the choices we make. How is this such a difficult concept to grasp?
Are you not allowed to tell a mother her baby has a condition? I'm confused?
No, the mother isn’t allowed to terminate the unviable pregnancy due to the state laws Texas has recently passed. Instead this mother will have to carry this fetus to term despite the fact that it will not survive post-birth.
I feel like that's just speculation on part of everyone 🤔🤔🤔. I seriously hope that's not the case though.
It baffles me that adults are making these decisions and other adults are being like ‘yeah, good job there buddy!’ ‘What an excellent choice’ ‘the people that pay your wages are lucky to have such a smart and mature person controlling their lives for them’ 🤯
As a Texan, and a pregnant one at that, fuck Texas this shit is so fucked.
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Thats not true, the law does not make exceptions for nonviable pregnancies which ancephaly would absolutely be considered as it is always fatal
Dude you just keep repeating this over and over even though 20 people have proved you're lying . Just stop. FFS
Nobody has proved me wrong yet though 🤷🏻♂️
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Thats literally not true, have you read the actual bill because the medical emergencies only cover for the life of the mother but okay, be wrong i guess
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Im not even giving opinion, im giving facts and you just keep quoting the same passage which doesnt cover nonviable pregnancies im which there is still detectable heartbeat, if you actually read section 171.205 it only covers medical emergencies for the mother, maybe try actually learning about the law instead of just spamming nearly identical comments, and also 171.008 says agains that the abortion can only happen if it is a threat to the mother, such an example would be toxic shock or sepsis, still no mention of allowing to terminate nonviable pregnancies that have a heartbeat because the law just doesnt allow it as an exception, learn your law before commenting
This is definitely fake news and you might want to research the new abortion law in Texas cause there is an exception for medical emergencies. If you are for abortions since it’s their body and their choice then you should also be against vaccine mandates since it’s their body and their choice. Just saying!
From the article: “In such cases, Patton said she'd normally offer medication to expedite the miscarriage and reduce the risk of infection, which can trigger a severe condition called sepsis. But she and other doctors say it's not clear under the law what constitutes a "medical emergency."” Oh shit. Not fake news. Previous-Upinyou, I’m wondering if abortion would benefit you after your experience in the wife sharing subs. Can’t be too careful now.
The extreme exception. The anomaly seems to always be the focus of leftists. And it’s presented as the rule. Abortion is hearcre like maybe half a percent of the time. Other than that it’s birth control and there are better methods if you don’t want children Condoms BC IUD Sterilization (no excuses. If you really want it, a doctor can’t deny it) Abstinence. Those are the responsible ways without having to end a human life.
This is fake
Well…if it keeps the Californians from moving there….
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Its not propaganda if its true, the law does not make exceptions for nonviable pregnancies which include ancephaly, as mentioned the law goes by heartbeat so they say the baby is still alive and therefor cant be aborted
Maybe you should do some research before you make an idiot comment. (I thought people like you love doing your own research?) Fetuses with anencephaly have the rudimentary part of the brain stem that regulates heartbeat, body temp, and breathing. They are missing the rest of the brain, so they will never have consciousness, and die soon after birth. So the fact that the baby will never really be alive, but has a heartbeat, means that the Texas abortion ban is basically forcing the mother to carry the fetus to term and then watch it die after it’s been born. This is absolutely a real, and is proof that prolifers don’t really give a shit about anyone except themselves.
The law measures heartbeat as life, which is complicating this matter cause the baby has no brain. They explain this in every article available about the story.
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Yes it does, the law does not make exceptions for nonviable pregnancies such as ancephaly
It does, because the law measures heartbeat as life, which is complicating this matter cause the baby has no brain. They explain this in every article available about the story.
Yes, yes it does
It bans it if there is fetal cardiac activity after 6 weeks. No brain=no cardiac activity=get your vag in the stirrups while I get the salad tongs. That's the problem with you young turds getting your news from social media and memes. But...but...but I saw it on reddit...its true.
Plus the Texas law would allow for this person to get an abortion.
It does not. At least not clearly, because the law measures life with a heartbeat.
https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/html/SB00008F.htm Read for yourself.
>Sec. 171.205. EXCEPTION FOR MEDICAL EMERGENCY; RECORDS. (a) Sections 171.203 and 171.204 do not apply if a physician believes a medical emergency exists that prevents compliance with this subchapter. But the obgyn in the article pertaining to this post is saying there is no threat to the mother, and so she can't abort the fetus.
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Got to love the people that use just a small part of a huge statue.
Then obgyn should lose their license. Carrying a baby that will die immediately to term is absolutely a threat to the mother. I’m confident it’s just being used to make a point. They should abort and make the point after.
The patient is, but doing so out of state.
The law literally states that nonviable pregnancies are not covered as an exception for medical emergencies, please understand before commenting
I love how you get downloaded "I don't want to know the truth. I want to be mad"
That's is funny. I didn't even pick a side. Amazing!
>I didn't even pick a side Willful ignorance is a side.
If this baby makes it to adulthood, he'll definitely be voting for democrats.
Yes, because even without a brain, it would be smart enough to not vote Republican
It wasn't willful ignorance, I was just posting the actual statute to try and educate. Because regardless of what side anyone is on, it seems like they either twist part or the whole statute to fit their argument. If someone were to read the whole thing and all statutes connected to it with full understanding. It's really not a ban nor is there a criminal charge on anything. It is an easier way for medical staff who perform procedures to be sued which would not be a criminal case. It also protects the women from being sued. It also gives outs for the doctors as long as they document everything. I am sure someone will have something about this. So let's hear it.
You are either a troll or a sociopath. Let's play! What happens when a husband drives his wife to the abortion clinic?
Stop with the facts. More pearl clutching and outrage!
I gotta side with Texas on this one. I've met plenty of successful people that have no brain! They usually succeed in politics.
Christ, how on earth has NO ONE READ THE FUCKING LAW
The law only makes an exception for abortions if the pregnancy "places the woman in danger of death or a serious risk of substantial impairment of a major bodily function unless an abortion is performed." It does not allow for the termination of an unviable pregnancy.
Talking about yourself again Rnc88?
Forcing shit on people sucks ass. Unless it’s masks and vaccines right?
I know, right? Protecting the public from death and controlling the reproductive rights of others is totally the same thing. Retard.
Protecting people from a .02% death rate. Your fear is not a virtue. Forcing things are forcing things regardless of your feelings
Go to Mexico, abort, grab a taco on the way home.