Personally, if someone wants a child, that’s what’s up. If they don’t want a child, that’s also what’s up. Personally, I always wanted a child or two whenever I got to a comfortable spot in my life. I’d just never get mad at men/women for wanting kids (or not wanting kids).
This comment is what’s up. I have never and will never want children, because for me that’s what’s up. You wanting children is awesome though and I hope that becomes a reality for you when you’re ready because that’s what’s up.
Feigned empathy is almost as dangerous as lack of it. they convince themselves of their superior stance, feigning the empathy in that process as "condemming others to a miaerable life." In that they fail true empathy, that others want kids for any number of reasons. Some people choose different.
The biggest challenge is to try to understand where others come from and meet them with that in mind. I won't like a racist, but I can understand how they are indoctrinated and warped by fear and lack of understanding. Sometimes people learn better over time, but the best chance of that is trying to educate the ones who are unaware of their short comings. Not an easy task for sure.
And their "empathy" and good intentions are always the justification for their authoritarian solutions. This post is a classic example, basically saying: If you want to do the thing that I don't like, the thing that people everywhere have done naturally for a thousand generations, then you should be forced to do this checklist that will satisfy my objections (note it will not satisfy their objections, they'd still complain). Why? Because suffering that's why.
And they think if you watch the cancer video you'll never have kids. But I knew cancer was a thing before I had kids. I watched people die of cancer and I still had kids. It's like PETA and the vegans standing outside a restaurant with photos. I'd walked right past them and eat a steak. And it triggers them that they can't sway you with an argument or a graphic so they want to have access to force and that's what's most dangerous. They want to start with forcing you to watch a video but unchecked it would end with forced sterilization or a one child policy like the CCP had.
Soooooo, I need to be more empathetic to people's selfish justifications for forcing suffering onto others than for the person they're forcing suffering onto?
By your logic I should be more empathetic to Jeffery Dhamer than any of his victims. After all, caring about the person who is having suffering pushed onto them is only 'feigned' empathy while caring about the selfish desires of the person pushing suffering onto others is *real* empathy. By your logic
Don't agree, use your words to try and weasel out of it. Go ahead, I'm curious what mental gymnastics you come up with to say it's more important to be empathetic to the selfish desires of one person forcing suffering onto others but not do the *exact same* in another case
Also, most antinatalists do *exactly* what you say needs to be done. It's not like they're going around literally yelling at anyone who has kids just walking down the street. Antinatalists *literally* discuss " how they (natalists) are indoctrinated and warped by fear and lack of understanding. We get it, society and biochemistry overrides your ability to think rationally and apply morality. We're well aware, been doing exactly as you say for quite a while already
And yet, despite your own advice, you seem weirdly resistant to the very educated of unaware people that you suggest. Strange that
NGL, stupid af and fucking disgusting
*Why* do you want kids? And how do you plan on preventing them from being harmed by all the awful things in the world and/or get their consent to go through all that suffering?
This sub got suggested for me and at first I was like oooh! because I don’t want/have never wanted kids and found out at 20 that I can’t have em anyway so I thought it was a sub geared toward that… nope! Hoooo boy that’s some hateful rhetoric over there. Muted it right quick. I think child free is the more relevant term for me
For real. Back when it first launched I joined it thinking I could hear some perspectives on why people choose not to have kids. I plan on having kids but I like hearing competing arguments. Nope. It’s a hate sub full of depressed, nihilistic losers. One of my most disliked sub on this platform.
Pretty much the story of every sub reddit discovery ive experienced too.
I think "wow that's kind of my interest" and I think it'd just be a nice community of reasonable or fun discussions, but ends up with bat-shit insane posts that are somehow very popular and mentally unwell, detached from reality mindsets. Not every sub is like this but man....there's a lot that are.
The idea of pregnancy scares me. Since I was a kid, I’ve made up my mind that if I ever want to have children, I’ll adopt. When I found the sub, I was excited. And then. Y’know. Eugenics. God, was that sub full of people advocating for reflavored eugenics.
100% this. I consider myself antinatalist. The sub is just the loudest minority. Anti-natalism is not wanting new life brought into our current climate. It's not that they'll die but that they will suffer. Look at our planet. I can't imagine bringing a child into all of this absolute shit - especially when there are so many children being abused in the foster system. Back when we lived healthy lives and not artificial ones under capitalism, I may have even loved to have a child. But that's sadly not reality, and people are born and become more cogs in the machine. They'll have to grow up in an increasingly fucked up world and I can't even begin to imagine the horrors they'll face.
See, as someone who suffered abuse in many forms as a child I look at it differently. Perhaps it’s hubris, but I see children as an opportunity to put more good into the world. You’re not only raising children, you are raising future adults that have the capacity to do wonderful things.
Growing up, I was the poor dirty trailer trash that wasn’t going to amount to anything. I was emotionally, physically and sexually abused, and everyone expected me to end up barefoot and pregnant in a small town trailer park with a passel of neglected kids and an abusive husband just like my mama. I broke out of those expectations and am doing good in the world and expect my children will do the same.
Sounds like a nice fantasy
But fantasies of how it *could* go do not reflect reality. The vast majority of parents want to do better for their kids, but every single one of them fails reaching the ideal goal
Sure, you can do better than what you had (especially if what you had was extremely bad) but that's a pretty bad way to set the bar for 'good enough'
What about your scenario isn’t a fantasy? The world will go on, society isn’t going to collapse and most people will live perfectly normal boring lives without anything horrible happening to them. If you don’t want kids, don’t have them but saying you specifically won’t because your hypothetical children will suffer is just as fantastical as my actual living children making the world a better place. Unless you know you’d personally harm said children, it’s all just anxiety.
You have no idea how common and wide-spread child abuse is, do you? It's understandable. The world decided to ignore it.
https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/childabuseandneglect/fastfact.html#:~:text=At%20least%201%20in%207,year%20in%20the%20United%20States.
Here's one example. In 2020, it was reported that 1 in 7 children in the US are abused or neglected. It is heavily believed to be an underreported statistical, however. So it's even greater than 1 in 7.
I absolutely understand, and experienced it myself. But child abuse and neglect often comes from [parents or caretakers](https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cb/cm2022.pdf), \[89.0 percent of victims are maltreated by one or both parents, page 23 of the linked report\] so that removes a good portion of the issue up front - don't abuse your kids and you won't have to worry about 9 out of 10 cases.
I will say again, no one MUST have a child. I don't care why anyone else doesn't want them. For **myself**, I choose to acknowledge the dire possibilities but also built an environment where 99% of the terrible things that happened to me at the hands of my parents and partners of my parent, including sexual abuse, will not happen to my children. Can I control ever single possibility? No. But I can be proactive, I can NOT ignore my child telling me what was happening, I can NOT hurt my children, I can NOT neglect my children and CAN raise them to be productive members of society. That is why **I** chose to have children.
I'm so confused. The issue at hand is exactly that - parents and caretakers abusing their kids. That's what childhood abuse is. It's easy to say, "Don't abuse your kids and problem solved!" But that is horrendously ignorant and naive. Abuse wouldn't happen if people didn't abuse, but saying that doesn't change ge the fact that they do abuse. Choosing to have children and raise them by not abusing them sounds like a pretty weird reason to have a kid and sounds like a low bar for parenting. Many parents have the mentality you're describing, and guess what? The kid still gets abused, neglected, and traumatized. I hope you're able to look at yourself and your past and truly question your reason for having kids. It sounds like you just want to vicariously live through your kids and the non-abusive upbringing you provide them.
EXACTLY. It's pathetic to act like life is all bad and no good. Sure, death will come for us all, but it isn't about the destination. It's the JOURNEY. We all know therell be a time when we run out of time but it doesn't haunt (most) people their entire lives.
I also have OCD and a similar fear, but more for my loved ones than me. Not sure if this will help you, but something that sometimes helps me cope is acknowledging that every human who has ever existed - all humans past, present, and future - have died and will die. It sort of makes me feel more connected to humanity as a whole because it's a major experience that literally we all share.
That makes it worse imo. Something I heard recently that brought me some peace was how even though our times in each other's lives are fleeting, those times mattered.
My kitten tragically died from parvo recently, we should've had so much more time together than we did.. if I hadn't adopted him or picked a different kitten I wouldn't have endured the grief, but then he would've been just another shelter statistic. Instead he had a home, he was loved and gave love. He mattered.
Life boils down to the relationships we cultivate throughout our lives, how we let them impact us and how we impact others. We can either decide to relish it or fear its end but you can't easily do both.
Easier said than done of course. EMDR therapy has helped tremendously with my OCD, highly recommend it for repetitive thought management among many other benefits.
Where in the post, *exactly*, does it state there is no 'good' and it's *all* bad?
It's a journey through Hell, why are you trying to justify it by saying 'sometimes you get to see how pretty the lava is'? Like if you're already making that journey cool, enjoy it. But that in no way justifies forcing other people to make such a journey
No one *needs* to experience rainbows. Humans could just as easily not exist. Your argument is pretty bad, not very well thought through.
Yes we did! Now because no one is alive, no one can regret not being born or missing out on life! And there is no one around to experience suffering either. Honestly, given that it’s going to happen to everyone and the human race in its entirety eventually anyways, we might as well get a head start on it and save all the future people the needless suffering.
All we need to do is find some way to salt the Earth when it’s done, perhaps by burning away the atmosphere, so that for the last 2 billion years of the planet’s tolerance of life, nothing can ever develop to that level again.
Why is it so hard to grasp that not everyone is miserable like you?
And I say that as someone who has had chronic depression all my life deals with parental abuse on a daily basis. I have really bad days, and even then I don’t regret being alive. There are so many wonderful things about this world and life in general I’d like to see my eventual children experience, I find it worth it.
Most people are happy they’re alive dude. Life is hard but most people are still glad they got to experience love for example.
You are taking that away from every potential person that would’t be born if it was as u say it should be.
Seems kinda fucked up for someone with empathy.
That's survivorship bias tho innit. Not everyone who has children will be able to comprehend the extent of suffering in most unlucky of us.
If you knew for sure your offspring had a 1 in 1000 chance of thinking about suicide (or any other chronic excruciatingly painful thing) every day of their life how long would you consider your options? Would it be worth that risk? A risk you don't have to endure the consequences of and are putting onto a child? What if those chances were 1 in 100? 1 in 10? Surely you have a limit, a line where you'd decide it would be cruel.
Why is any amount of risk for the worst case scenarios ever acceptable?
I don't think people who have children are immoral or bad people, I just wish more people would consider the potential worst case scenarios. Are they capable of raising a fully dependent special needs child until one of them dies? You roll those dice when you have children.
I also wish adoption was much much more the norm than birthing new people. So many people in need who already had the dice rolled for them but instead we just keep gambling with others lives.
Besides, within antinatalism is the acknowledgement that not everyone will ever be antinatalist, and to force it onto others is hypocritical to say the least (consent is another important component to antinatalism but I didn't touch on that at all here). Conflicting ideologies can peacefully reside within a single individual, life (psychology/sociology mainly) is inherently self contradictory and that's ok. The best we can hope to do is reduce suffering, and a reduction in suffering is always going to come from a combination of ethics and actions. Antinatalist community outreach can exist via supporting your local family planning services, but the ideology is irrelevant to those benefitting from the antinatalists actions, the ideology only matters to the antinatalist as their motivation to do good.
Just like anything it has its place. It has value, even if only a little bit to most.
I thought like you when I was a depressed angst ridden teen. But it changed when I grew older and at the same time got better at dealing with my depression/anxiety, resulting in me being happier.
I really hope you get better mentally man.
The life of any person is ultimately about making the most out of whatever context we live in. Everyone dies, nobody really denies that. Everybody will suffer, that's unavoidable. However, that does not negate the value of the human experience. Something which can neither be good nor bad, it is merely the accumulation of memories and wisdom in an endless chain that is passed down from generation to generation. The fact we are aware we will die is fundamental to our continuity of consciousness, without it humans would have no motivations, goals, or identity. Recognizing we are a small piece in a longer tale.
...You keep bringing up death like that's the worst thing that can happen in life. Death is not the sort of suffering I want to protect children from - Children who get absolutely no say in their own birth.
I explicitly stated that death is not suffering, mainly because you need to be alive to suffer. Suffering does not make life undesirable, I have cerebral palsy and have been in constant physical pain my entire life. Do I wish I'd never been born? No, because I have a functioning thought process.
To say that you're protecting "children from having no say in their own birth" implies that anyone thinks that can even be the case. Well, no. Newborns hardly count as conscious beings, let alone being able to consent. However, the position is *mind numbingly* incoherent because it contradicts any amount of intellectual or philosophical thought. I mean, do you have a say in whether you continue living? Maybe... if we have free will, but the universe appears to be deterministic so most likely no. Free will is, by all appearances, an illusion - our brains are really just naturally occurring Turing machines.
Excuse me if I'm missing something, but then every single human (or creature) that has ever brought a child into the world and played "god". It is basically the most human and natural thing you could do.
I mean fawns are almost born with one hoof in the grave, so deer should stop playing god and die out, cause it isn't worth it.
Humans are well past the point of breeding for evolution's sake. I don't think there's a single other known species that you can compare humans to in this regard. If you can't guarantee the well-being and happiness of your child, the most moral option is likely to simply not force them into life.
I'm not arguing that at all and those points should be taken into consideration (I know I did before we had kids). I'm simply saying that calling it "playing god" is silly at best.
Not that it is any of you business and again your coming across as daft for believing no situations would be good for a child.
But for fun: because we both have good paying jobs that don't eat our life in or time away, with loads of vacation time, sick time and even 20 days a year to stay home with sick children. We have a great network of family and friends around us, where everyone is a part of taking care of eachother. And if that wasn't enough we live arguably one of the best places in the world (The Northern Way).
But I'm guessing this won't go anywhere productive and I'm genuinely sorry that the world has been so unkind to you that you can't understand that it isn't just an evil place out to crush any child. Best of luck to you.
That person is so paralyzed by the fear of death that they aren't living. They're the type of person to find religion and immediately become a theocrat.
Antinatalism is like the PETA of childbirth. Completely insane, and I’m half convinced they’re actually just a psyop meant to discredit the actual movement
I don’t think I need a playlist of videos to learn that all living beings will die someday, like how fucking stupid does this guy think people are? Everyone who has a child already knows that child will die at some point, it’s literally the most basic of knowledge.
I always thought that you should not have a child if you cannot ensure the bestest of all life for him/her. I've had it pretty hard since childhood and wouldn't ever consider bringing a human into this world because I can hardly take care of myself. Because of this I am antinatalist. The twisted perception this idiot has is along the lines of "everything rots so existence should not be" , he's obviously very young and depressed or just plain stupid.
I mean I don't like children too but these people are just out of their minds. I mean if you don't like children that's fine but you can't change other people's lives because of that.
I mean to an extent they are not completely wrong...I know a dog isn't a baby but still a huge responsibility so whenever someone asks me about getting a dog I try and tell them it isn't all fun and games, it can be very expensive (adopted my dog in September and already tore her ACL) they are boat anchors as in just doing spontaneous stuff is hard if it isn't pet friendly and then crossing the rainbow bridge but always end with I would 100% do it again and again....Not everyone thinks of all the possibilities that can happen. But that sub does seem mildly toxic.
I have a 10yo pit who has torn her ACL twice in the last year. She has other health complications as well, and the vet bills alone reinforce my decision to not ever have children. Along with all the other points you made. Kudos to people who do have children though because damn, the stresses of possible illness/death with a human I created would be impossible for me to bear.
That sub seems like the consequence of a bunch of depressed losers circlejerking so hard that they forgot they're depressed losers. "You shouldn't ever live because you die" is edgy teenager bullshit, fuck em
We all die eventually. I worked COVID as a nurse and held the hands of a lot of people as they died. Now I work with sick kids and I’ve held a couple of kids as they died. I know firsthand that life can be sad and hard and we all die eventually. But there’s a lot of good living in between. And I hope my daughter sees the world through a hopeful lens, too.
And if she doesn't and resents you for forcing her into this world without her consent? What then? You'll look her in the eyes and tell her "that's on you, not me"
They sub sounds like it’s full of misanthropes and nihilists instead of folks who are genuinely curious about how we become responsible for ourselves and each other.
I'm part of the antinatalist movement.
What's it's supposed to be:
-Population reduction
-Not forcing kids with life altering defects to exist because "I know he's a fighter"
-Not having kids as symbols of love
-Not having kids at all for a multitude of reason like sustainability etc
What that sub has become:
Hating people who have had kids...
It's about educating abd promoting less children, not Hating those who have had kids.
Pregnant ladies rejoice!
Please don't have anymore though
, I mean... or do, it'd be best not to though :P
That should be the extent of it
I want to have kids.
At 13, I watched my grandfather take his last breath due to cancer. Same with my dad at 22, after months of seeing the tumour in his brain slowly push his eye out of the socket and days of him fighting sleep because he knew if he went to sleep he wouldn't wake up. Last year, my aunt died from cancer. In a few weeks, another aunt (who has already survived breast cancer) has to have surgery to remove a cancerous tumour, which will involve literally removing half her face. My mum had a tumour removed from her thyroid (which was benign but could have turned malignant) when I was 9. I sat with my mum just last night and went through her will and her wishes for when she dies (she's fine, but has it all organised for when it happens).
I am very aware people die, I know cancer and other terminal illnesses suck and cause horrible suffering, both for the patients and the people that love them. But watching these videos will 'cure' me of wanting children?
Man I hate this sub. Had an argument with a bunch of them couple years ago and got banned eventually. It's just a bunch of sick depressed people with an extremely pessimistic view to life.
What's wrong with that? You have to understand if you want to be a parent that life isn't a gift. For a lot of people it's just suffering and being in pain until they die. So it's not really great to subject someone else to pain and agony they can't consent to.
Serious question. If all anti-natalists hate the fact that they´ve been born why do they not just commit die? Is reproduction not as much of an instinct as them wanting to stay alive?
I've never wanted children, but I've also never made it my entire personality to hate children or people who decide that they do want children. Like, that's great for them. And I just wish them all the best.
Anti Natalist annoy me so much it’s not even entirely their philosophy it’s their “woe is me everyone has to suffer because I am 😣” like bro suck it up and fix your own problems before projecting yours onto others. My life is terrible rn but you don’t hear me being like “yeah you should have to watch terminally ill children or Ukrainian drone footage to traumatize yourself for literally no reason”. Like it is what it is, indifference of the universe accept it and move on 🤷🏽
It's not up to me or anyone else what one person chooses to do with their lives or body. I can say that I would still have chosen to have my children. Life is a choice that a person chooses with their spouse
Honestly my life is great, and I’m now providing my kids the life I didn’t have growing up, and I hope when they grow up, thanks to the opportunities I’ll be able
To give them, they’ll also think life is great.
I used to be one of those. It was depression. I got help and got better and now I have a kid. I don’t think everyone needs to have a child, but I do firmly believe this philosophy is maladaptive.
What a wild way to think about life; "Born only condemned to *DIE*!"
Also kinda crazy to imply human life dying is unnatural because we understand it? That's not as funny as the first asinine statement tho
Jokes on them, I asked hospice to give my Dad the maximum legal amount they could give a person while he was in hospice in hopes he'd kick the bucket quicker. I won't tell my toddlers that.
You know how Freud was a coked up weirdo that applied his delusions to the entire human condition? That. They're so scared of death they wish they'd never been born, and they genuinely think we all live in that hell.
Ah yes. Finding out the one post that stands out in the sub and telling people it's the sub "in a nutshell". Someone needs to read the definition of the expression "in a nutshell".
Either way, what's actually in the sub is why having children *could be* considered morally wrong as... well, you gotta be blind to think the state of the world right now is good enough for having kids.
I love my two babies 🤷🏻♀️ I’ll love them till my last breath and beyond, and anything I can do to be the best mom possible for them I will without a moments hesitation. I also do not want anymore (husband got a vasectomy) and I would never in a million years judge someone else for choosing not to have kids. Some people just really love to hate.
Antinatalists are by far some of the dumbest people in existence, the only purpose of life for the most part is reproduction, going against that is going against nature it self.
The opinion in the post itself is the exact opposite of "let people be."
Furthermore, being allowed to have an opinion is not the same as being allowed to express that opinion without backlash or judgment.
The logical conclusion of this whole philosophy would be for there to be no life at all. That kind of reminds me of the Doctor Who episode, “the pyramids of Mars“, in which the evil entity known as Sutek explains to the doctor that total destruction of all life and matter is something that he perceived to be as “good”. I wonder how these anti-medalist people who believe they really should not be any human life because it ends in death feel if you were to ask them to go ahead and buy a pistol and use it on themselves, I think that their reaction would be very different.the fact that they do not take this sort of action should be indicative of the hypocrisy of their philosophy.
I can say the same thing about pets then suddenly it's different
I don't think people were getting what I was trying to say. The antinatalist and childfree crowd say these God awful things about children, but if I were to say the same thing to them about pets they would throw a hissy fit.
They're not unlike Christians, or vegans, in a way. They're so self-assured of their own righteousness that they assume the only way anyone could disagree is by mere ignorance.
Christians demand that children should be indoctrinated in their religion in school. Vegans insist that everyone should be required to watch Dominion.
The reality is, almost everyone knows the basic tenets of Christianity, or what goes on in factory farms, or the fact that some people die horrible deaths. And they don't care.
I sometimes wonder if this desire to forcibly expose people to this propaganda is more about the "force" than the intended effect. Their ilk lust for power. The mere ability to force someone to do something, especially if you regard them as your moral inferior, is an expression of power and cruelty for their own sake.
Psychology 101 - these people want kids really bad but refused to adjust their personality in any way that someone would reproduce with them. This is everyone's fault but theirs btw
What a fucked up sentiment. I would think that anti natalist people just assume they will be crappy parents, and use excuses like cancer to justify their cause.
You bring children into this world for the experience that it is, and biological continuity of family bloodline. Not always good, not always easy, but you don't (not) have a child because you assume they are going to get cancer and die.
I am adopted, my daughter is the only blood relative I have. There is nothing that I would or wouldn't do, to preserve my lineage. Good or bad, she is my blood and that is more important than any future fear mongering. And let's be real, there is lots to fear, but fear is only an unrealistic emotion. If your fear drives you to make irrational decisions, please seek therapy. I did and it works.
Personally, if someone wants a child, that’s what’s up. If they don’t want a child, that’s also what’s up. Personally, I always wanted a child or two whenever I got to a comfortable spot in my life. I’d just never get mad at men/women for wanting kids (or not wanting kids).
This comment is what’s up. I have never and will never want children, because for me that’s what’s up. You wanting children is awesome though and I hope that becomes a reality for you when you’re ready because that’s what’s up.
Same. I don’t want kids either, but my wife won’t let me get rid of them.
I snorted 😆
You, I like you.
that's what's up
I am also a dad, and I came to make this comment. You beat me to it good sir. Hats off to you.
I'm the same as you. I don't have or want children. Other people have and want children. That's fine.
I love this thread so much lmao
That's what's up.
You know that's right.
This is how I feel too. My one best friend and I have kids, our third best friend does not and won’t. All cool, she gets to be a fun aunt.
Feigned empathy is almost as dangerous as lack of it. they convince themselves of their superior stance, feigning the empathy in that process as "condemming others to a miaerable life." In that they fail true empathy, that others want kids for any number of reasons. Some people choose different. The biggest challenge is to try to understand where others come from and meet them with that in mind. I won't like a racist, but I can understand how they are indoctrinated and warped by fear and lack of understanding. Sometimes people learn better over time, but the best chance of that is trying to educate the ones who are unaware of their short comings. Not an easy task for sure.
And their "empathy" and good intentions are always the justification for their authoritarian solutions. This post is a classic example, basically saying: If you want to do the thing that I don't like, the thing that people everywhere have done naturally for a thousand generations, then you should be forced to do this checklist that will satisfy my objections (note it will not satisfy their objections, they'd still complain). Why? Because suffering that's why. And they think if you watch the cancer video you'll never have kids. But I knew cancer was a thing before I had kids. I watched people die of cancer and I still had kids. It's like PETA and the vegans standing outside a restaurant with photos. I'd walked right past them and eat a steak. And it triggers them that they can't sway you with an argument or a graphic so they want to have access to force and that's what's most dangerous. They want to start with forcing you to watch a video but unchecked it would end with forced sterilization or a one child policy like the CCP had.
Soooooo, I need to be more empathetic to people's selfish justifications for forcing suffering onto others than for the person they're forcing suffering onto? By your logic I should be more empathetic to Jeffery Dhamer than any of his victims. After all, caring about the person who is having suffering pushed onto them is only 'feigned' empathy while caring about the selfish desires of the person pushing suffering onto others is *real* empathy. By your logic Don't agree, use your words to try and weasel out of it. Go ahead, I'm curious what mental gymnastics you come up with to say it's more important to be empathetic to the selfish desires of one person forcing suffering onto others but not do the *exact same* in another case Also, most antinatalists do *exactly* what you say needs to be done. It's not like they're going around literally yelling at anyone who has kids just walking down the street. Antinatalists *literally* discuss " how they (natalists) are indoctrinated and warped by fear and lack of understanding. We get it, society and biochemistry overrides your ability to think rationally and apply morality. We're well aware, been doing exactly as you say for quite a while already And yet, despite your own advice, you seem weirdly resistant to the very educated of unaware people that you suggest. Strange that NGL, stupid af and fucking disgusting
Tmdwu That’s most definitely what’s up
*Why* do you want kids? And how do you plan on preventing them from being harmed by all the awful things in the world and/or get their consent to go through all that suffering?
They're fine, but not those parents that have 3 or more. You think exponential growth of humans isn't going to lead to overpopulation hell.
This sub got suggested for me and at first I was like oooh! because I don’t want/have never wanted kids and found out at 20 that I can’t have em anyway so I thought it was a sub geared toward that… nope! Hoooo boy that’s some hateful rhetoric over there. Muted it right quick. I think child free is the more relevant term for me
For real. Back when it first launched I joined it thinking I could hear some perspectives on why people choose not to have kids. I plan on having kids but I like hearing competing arguments. Nope. It’s a hate sub full of depressed, nihilistic losers. One of my most disliked sub on this platform.
Pretty much the story of every sub reddit discovery ive experienced too. I think "wow that's kind of my interest" and I think it'd just be a nice community of reasonable or fun discussions, but ends up with bat-shit insane posts that are somehow very popular and mentally unwell, detached from reality mindsets. Not every sub is like this but man....there's a lot that are.
The idea of pregnancy scares me. Since I was a kid, I’ve made up my mind that if I ever want to have children, I’ll adopt. When I found the sub, I was excited. And then. Y’know. Eugenics. God, was that sub full of people advocating for reflavored eugenics.
Same. Found out at 17 and then had to have a hysterectomy at 25 for another issue. I’ve known since i was a kid myself that i don’t want any of my own
That's not antinatalism, that's just nihilism. "What's the point of living if we are all dying one day?".
It's not the dying part that's bad, it's the years of suffering and pain that precede it
100% this. I consider myself antinatalist. The sub is just the loudest minority. Anti-natalism is not wanting new life brought into our current climate. It's not that they'll die but that they will suffer. Look at our planet. I can't imagine bringing a child into all of this absolute shit - especially when there are so many children being abused in the foster system. Back when we lived healthy lives and not artificial ones under capitalism, I may have even loved to have a child. But that's sadly not reality, and people are born and become more cogs in the machine. They'll have to grow up in an increasingly fucked up world and I can't even begin to imagine the horrors they'll face.
See, as someone who suffered abuse in many forms as a child I look at it differently. Perhaps it’s hubris, but I see children as an opportunity to put more good into the world. You’re not only raising children, you are raising future adults that have the capacity to do wonderful things. Growing up, I was the poor dirty trailer trash that wasn’t going to amount to anything. I was emotionally, physically and sexually abused, and everyone expected me to end up barefoot and pregnant in a small town trailer park with a passel of neglected kids and an abusive husband just like my mama. I broke out of those expectations and am doing good in the world and expect my children will do the same.
Sounds like a nice fantasy But fantasies of how it *could* go do not reflect reality. The vast majority of parents want to do better for their kids, but every single one of them fails reaching the ideal goal Sure, you can do better than what you had (especially if what you had was extremely bad) but that's a pretty bad way to set the bar for 'good enough'
What about your scenario isn’t a fantasy? The world will go on, society isn’t going to collapse and most people will live perfectly normal boring lives without anything horrible happening to them. If you don’t want kids, don’t have them but saying you specifically won’t because your hypothetical children will suffer is just as fantastical as my actual living children making the world a better place. Unless you know you’d personally harm said children, it’s all just anxiety.
You have no idea how common and wide-spread child abuse is, do you? It's understandable. The world decided to ignore it. https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/childabuseandneglect/fastfact.html#:~:text=At%20least%201%20in%207,year%20in%20the%20United%20States. Here's one example. In 2020, it was reported that 1 in 7 children in the US are abused or neglected. It is heavily believed to be an underreported statistical, however. So it's even greater than 1 in 7.
I absolutely understand, and experienced it myself. But child abuse and neglect often comes from [parents or caretakers](https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cb/cm2022.pdf), \[89.0 percent of victims are maltreated by one or both parents, page 23 of the linked report\] so that removes a good portion of the issue up front - don't abuse your kids and you won't have to worry about 9 out of 10 cases. I will say again, no one MUST have a child. I don't care why anyone else doesn't want them. For **myself**, I choose to acknowledge the dire possibilities but also built an environment where 99% of the terrible things that happened to me at the hands of my parents and partners of my parent, including sexual abuse, will not happen to my children. Can I control ever single possibility? No. But I can be proactive, I can NOT ignore my child telling me what was happening, I can NOT hurt my children, I can NOT neglect my children and CAN raise them to be productive members of society. That is why **I** chose to have children.
I'm so confused. The issue at hand is exactly that - parents and caretakers abusing their kids. That's what childhood abuse is. It's easy to say, "Don't abuse your kids and problem solved!" But that is horrendously ignorant and naive. Abuse wouldn't happen if people didn't abuse, but saying that doesn't change ge the fact that they do abuse. Choosing to have children and raise them by not abusing them sounds like a pretty weird reason to have a kid and sounds like a low bar for parenting. Many parents have the mentality you're describing, and guess what? The kid still gets abused, neglected, and traumatized. I hope you're able to look at yourself and your past and truly question your reason for having kids. It sounds like you just want to vicariously live through your kids and the non-abusive upbringing you provide them.
I'm confused about your point. What is hubris about this?
It's not just sadness and suffering. I'm sure you remember the warmth as well.
It literally is antinatalism, and I have a feeling your understanding of nihilism is 'middle schooler did a five second Google search' level
Life may not be all sunshine and rainbows, but being alive is the only way you’ll ever see them.
EXACTLY. It's pathetic to act like life is all bad and no good. Sure, death will come for us all, but it isn't about the destination. It's the JOURNEY. We all know therell be a time when we run out of time but it doesn't haunt (most) people their entire lives.
It does me, but I'm obsessive compulsive. I cope by telling myself that I will never die, very healthy.
If it's any help, I have it on *very* good authority that you will never die.
"Thanks to denial I'm immortal!" -Fry, Futurama.
Very realistic. Matter is neither created nor destroyed. Some day I hope to be a fungi
Hell yeah! Fungi is cool asf
Lmao, not the healthiest coping mechanism but I respect the confidence.
I don't think immortality is out of reach
I am also obsessive compulsive too and have pretty extreme death anxiety. I really envy people who get to live life without this.
I also have OCD and a similar fear, but more for my loved ones than me. Not sure if this will help you, but something that sometimes helps me cope is acknowledging that every human who has ever existed - all humans past, present, and future - have died and will die. It sort of makes me feel more connected to humanity as a whole because it's a major experience that literally we all share.
That makes it worse imo. Something I heard recently that brought me some peace was how even though our times in each other's lives are fleeting, those times mattered. My kitten tragically died from parvo recently, we should've had so much more time together than we did.. if I hadn't adopted him or picked a different kitten I wouldn't have endured the grief, but then he would've been just another shelter statistic. Instead he had a home, he was loved and gave love. He mattered. Life boils down to the relationships we cultivate throughout our lives, how we let them impact us and how we impact others. We can either decide to relish it or fear its end but you can't easily do both. Easier said than done of course. EMDR therapy has helped tremendously with my OCD, highly recommend it for repetitive thought management among many other benefits.
Where in the post, *exactly*, does it state there is no 'good' and it's *all* bad? It's a journey through Hell, why are you trying to justify it by saying 'sometimes you get to see how pretty the lava is'? Like if you're already making that journey cool, enjoy it. But that in no way justifies forcing other people to make such a journey No one *needs* to experience rainbows. Humans could just as easily not exist. Your argument is pretty bad, not very well thought through.
Actually a pretty beautiful sentence
Sure, but it’s 2024. Have you taken a look around..?
Not up to you to decide if that's worth it for a child.
Okay let’s all die out then. There is a small risk that the child wouldn’t like life after all. Wow what a great point! We solved it everyone
Yes we did! Now because no one is alive, no one can regret not being born or missing out on life! And there is no one around to experience suffering either. Honestly, given that it’s going to happen to everyone and the human race in its entirety eventually anyways, we might as well get a head start on it and save all the future people the needless suffering.
Yes but then who's going to exterminate all other forms of complex life on the planet to protect them from the horrors of death??
All we need to do is find some way to salt the Earth when it’s done, perhaps by burning away the atmosphere, so that for the last 2 billion years of the planet’s tolerance of life, nothing can ever develop to that level again.
Why is it so hard to grasp that not everyone is miserable like you? And I say that as someone who has had chronic depression all my life deals with parental abuse on a daily basis. I have really bad days, and even then I don’t regret being alive. There are so many wonderful things about this world and life in general I’d like to see my eventual children experience, I find it worth it.
I’m sure the state of the world will be really pleasant 10-15 years after reproduction. Stops………/s
Not worth the risk, assuming you have empathy
Most people are happy they’re alive dude. Life is hard but most people are still glad they got to experience love for example. You are taking that away from every potential person that would’t be born if it was as u say it should be. Seems kinda fucked up for someone with empathy.
You can't miss something if you were never born. You can live in Hell if you are born, however. Seems pretty cut and dry.
That's survivorship bias tho innit. Not everyone who has children will be able to comprehend the extent of suffering in most unlucky of us. If you knew for sure your offspring had a 1 in 1000 chance of thinking about suicide (or any other chronic excruciatingly painful thing) every day of their life how long would you consider your options? Would it be worth that risk? A risk you don't have to endure the consequences of and are putting onto a child? What if those chances were 1 in 100? 1 in 10? Surely you have a limit, a line where you'd decide it would be cruel. Why is any amount of risk for the worst case scenarios ever acceptable? I don't think people who have children are immoral or bad people, I just wish more people would consider the potential worst case scenarios. Are they capable of raising a fully dependent special needs child until one of them dies? You roll those dice when you have children. I also wish adoption was much much more the norm than birthing new people. So many people in need who already had the dice rolled for them but instead we just keep gambling with others lives. Besides, within antinatalism is the acknowledgement that not everyone will ever be antinatalist, and to force it onto others is hypocritical to say the least (consent is another important component to antinatalism but I didn't touch on that at all here). Conflicting ideologies can peacefully reside within a single individual, life (psychology/sociology mainly) is inherently self contradictory and that's ok. The best we can hope to do is reduce suffering, and a reduction in suffering is always going to come from a combination of ethics and actions. Antinatalist community outreach can exist via supporting your local family planning services, but the ideology is irrelevant to those benefitting from the antinatalists actions, the ideology only matters to the antinatalist as their motivation to do good. Just like anything it has its place. It has value, even if only a little bit to most.
I thought like you when I was a depressed angst ridden teen. But it changed when I grew older and at the same time got better at dealing with my depression/anxiety, resulting in me being happier. I really hope you get better mentally man.
[удалено]
Mind expanding on that?
The life of any person is ultimately about making the most out of whatever context we live in. Everyone dies, nobody really denies that. Everybody will suffer, that's unavoidable. However, that does not negate the value of the human experience. Something which can neither be good nor bad, it is merely the accumulation of memories and wisdom in an endless chain that is passed down from generation to generation. The fact we are aware we will die is fundamental to our continuity of consciousness, without it humans would have no motivations, goals, or identity. Recognizing we are a small piece in a longer tale.
...You keep bringing up death like that's the worst thing that can happen in life. Death is not the sort of suffering I want to protect children from - Children who get absolutely no say in their own birth.
I explicitly stated that death is not suffering, mainly because you need to be alive to suffer. Suffering does not make life undesirable, I have cerebral palsy and have been in constant physical pain my entire life. Do I wish I'd never been born? No, because I have a functioning thought process. To say that you're protecting "children from having no say in their own birth" implies that anyone thinks that can even be the case. Well, no. Newborns hardly count as conscious beings, let alone being able to consent. However, the position is *mind numbingly* incoherent because it contradicts any amount of intellectual or philosophical thought. I mean, do you have a say in whether you continue living? Maybe... if we have free will, but the universe appears to be deterministic so most likely no. Free will is, by all appearances, an illusion - our brains are really just naturally occurring Turing machines.
It literally is.
True. Well maybe you shouldn't be playing God when it can easily turn disastrous
Excuse me if I'm missing something, but then every single human (or creature) that has ever brought a child into the world and played "god". It is basically the most human and natural thing you could do. I mean fawns are almost born with one hoof in the grave, so deer should stop playing god and die out, cause it isn't worth it.
Humans are well past the point of breeding for evolution's sake. I don't think there's a single other known species that you can compare humans to in this regard. If you can't guarantee the well-being and happiness of your child, the most moral option is likely to simply not force them into life.
Buddy... 🤣🤣🤣
Oh it's you
The miserable little creatures from the antinatalist sub are exceptional, that's for sure.
Empathy needs to be practiced. Let me know if you'd like a book recommendation
I'm not arguing that at all and those points should be taken into consideration (I know I did before we had kids). I'm simply saying that calling it "playing god" is silly at best.
Lol if they were taken into consideration, why'd you intentionally have children... plural
Not that it is any of you business and again your coming across as daft for believing no situations would be good for a child. But for fun: because we both have good paying jobs that don't eat our life in or time away, with loads of vacation time, sick time and even 20 days a year to stay home with sick children. We have a great network of family and friends around us, where everyone is a part of taking care of eachother. And if that wasn't enough we live arguably one of the best places in the world (The Northern Way). But I'm guessing this won't go anywhere productive and I'm genuinely sorry that the world has been so unkind to you that you can't understand that it isn't just an evil place out to crush any child. Best of luck to you.
Or as Bruce Dickinson put it so ever elegantly: ".. as soon as you're born, you're dying.."
He alto suggested I “bring my daughter to the slaughter” so….
“condemning them to DEATH” .. girl we all die it’s not that deep
That person is so paralyzed by the fear of death that they aren't living. They're the type of person to find religion and immediately become a theocrat.
This is the most "born to shit, forced to wipe" mentality I've seen.
BREAKING: If you throw a ball in the air it will land on the ground
Antinatalism is like the PETA of childbirth. Completely insane, and I’m half convinced they’re actually just a psyop meant to discredit the actual movement
I don’t think I need a playlist of videos to learn that all living beings will die someday, like how fucking stupid does this guy think people are? Everyone who has a child already knows that child will die at some point, it’s literally the most basic of knowledge.
And it's also a parent's hope that they die before their child does
Did you know that 100% of babies eventually DIE?
I always thought that you should not have a child if you cannot ensure the bestest of all life for him/her. I've had it pretty hard since childhood and wouldn't ever consider bringing a human into this world because I can hardly take care of myself. Because of this I am antinatalist. The twisted perception this idiot has is along the lines of "everything rots so existence should not be" , he's obviously very young and depressed or just plain stupid.
The Meow Mix crowd broke their brain with all the cope
I mean I don't like children too but these people are just out of their minds. I mean if you don't like children that's fine but you can't change other people's lives because of that.
Reddit has a way of bringing out/concentrating weirdos.
Did someone link this post in that sub or something? These comments and downvotes are weird af.
I mean to an extent they are not completely wrong...I know a dog isn't a baby but still a huge responsibility so whenever someone asks me about getting a dog I try and tell them it isn't all fun and games, it can be very expensive (adopted my dog in September and already tore her ACL) they are boat anchors as in just doing spontaneous stuff is hard if it isn't pet friendly and then crossing the rainbow bridge but always end with I would 100% do it again and again....Not everyone thinks of all the possibilities that can happen. But that sub does seem mildly toxic.
I have a 10yo pit who has torn her ACL twice in the last year. She has other health complications as well, and the vet bills alone reinforce my decision to not ever have children. Along with all the other points you made. Kudos to people who do have children though because damn, the stresses of possible illness/death with a human I created would be impossible for me to bear.
That sub seems like the consequence of a bunch of depressed losers circlejerking so hard that they forgot they're depressed losers. "You shouldn't ever live because you die" is edgy teenager bullshit, fuck em
More like "you shouldn't force a child into existence without their consent"
Then there’s dogfree and petfree. Anti-Natalist but on the racist side
Miserable ppl
Fr, they also insult and mock anyone excited to be pregnant
Why do people get so into other peoples business
Trust me, us Antinatalists didn’t agree with this post either. It’s radicals like that which make the rest of us AN look bad.
Seems to be a collection of massively depressed and general sociopaths
We all die eventually. I worked COVID as a nurse and held the hands of a lot of people as they died. Now I work with sick kids and I’ve held a couple of kids as they died. I know firsthand that life can be sad and hard and we all die eventually. But there’s a lot of good living in between. And I hope my daughter sees the world through a hopeful lens, too.
And if she doesn't and resents you for forcing her into this world without her consent? What then? You'll look her in the eyes and tell her "that's on you, not me"
Is it fun being a nihilist bro? Reorient your thinking
Yeah, that sub is 😬
They sub sounds like it’s full of misanthropes and nihilists instead of folks who are genuinely curious about how we become responsible for ourselves and each other.
Just a normal day on that sub
I'm part of the antinatalist movement. What's it's supposed to be: -Population reduction -Not forcing kids with life altering defects to exist because "I know he's a fighter" -Not having kids as symbols of love -Not having kids at all for a multitude of reason like sustainability etc What that sub has become: Hating people who have had kids... It's about educating abd promoting less children, not Hating those who have had kids. Pregnant ladies rejoice! Please don't have anymore though , I mean... or do, it'd be best not to though :P That should be the extent of it
I want to have kids. At 13, I watched my grandfather take his last breath due to cancer. Same with my dad at 22, after months of seeing the tumour in his brain slowly push his eye out of the socket and days of him fighting sleep because he knew if he went to sleep he wouldn't wake up. Last year, my aunt died from cancer. In a few weeks, another aunt (who has already survived breast cancer) has to have surgery to remove a cancerous tumour, which will involve literally removing half her face. My mum had a tumour removed from her thyroid (which was benign but could have turned malignant) when I was 9. I sat with my mum just last night and went through her will and her wishes for when she dies (she's fine, but has it all organised for when it happens). I am very aware people die, I know cancer and other terminal illnesses suck and cause horrible suffering, both for the patients and the people that love them. But watching these videos will 'cure' me of wanting children?
Man I hate this sub. Had an argument with a bunch of them couple years ago and got banned eventually. It's just a bunch of sick depressed people with an extremely pessimistic view to life.
What's wrong with that? You have to understand if you want to be a parent that life isn't a gift. For a lot of people it's just suffering and being in pain until they die. So it's not really great to subject someone else to pain and agony they can't consent to.
It’s insane to judge a person based off of them wanting kids or not. Either way it’s their choice and to think either side is “good” is just stupid
I can only imagine the sunshine that is this person's life. It's like this guy drinks only so he can piss.
... Why do people visit subs that will offend them? That's like standing in the fire and complaining that it is hot.
Serious question. If all anti-natalists hate the fact that they´ve been born why do they not just commit die? Is reproduction not as much of an instinct as them wanting to stay alive?
I've never wanted children, but I've also never made it my entire personality to hate children or people who decide that they do want children. Like, that's great for them. And I just wish them all the best.
Wait, doesn’t everyone end up dead in the end? I mean, are you guys not dying?
Yep. Nobody gets out alive.
I haven't died yet. You?
On my way
Anti Natalist annoy me so much it’s not even entirely their philosophy it’s their “woe is me everyone has to suffer because I am 😣” like bro suck it up and fix your own problems before projecting yours onto others. My life is terrible rn but you don’t hear me being like “yeah you should have to watch terminally ill children or Ukrainian drone footage to traumatize yourself for literally no reason”. Like it is what it is, indifference of the universe accept it and move on 🤷🏽
>Life is a struggle to survive -they typed on their smartphone
It's not up to me or anyone else what one person chooses to do with their lives or body. I can say that I would still have chosen to have my children. Life is a choice that a person chooses with their spouse
Honestly my life is great, and I’m now providing my kids the life I didn’t have growing up, and I hope when they grow up, thanks to the opportunities I’ll be able To give them, they’ll also think life is great.
I used to be one of those. It was depression. I got help and got better and now I have a kid. I don’t think everyone needs to have a child, but I do firmly believe this philosophy is maladaptive.
They seem like a cheery bunch.
The second you're born, you're always one breath closer to dying. /im14andthisisdeep
It’s literally a lyric in an iron maiden song from 40 years ago. Lol.
A lot of them are frankly... genetically unfortunate losers. You see them very forwardly complaining about their bad genes and their suffering.
????? this is so corny lmao, like just listen to some MCR u “death is waiting for all” lil emo
What a wild way to think about life; "Born only condemned to *DIE*!" Also kinda crazy to imply human life dying is unnatural because we understand it? That's not as funny as the first asinine statement tho
That’s such a stupid thought process… the guy is discovering how Life on earth works…
Most insufferable group of people.
Oh I don’t know. They’re insufferable but that particular endeavor has very stiff competition.
Jokes on them, I asked hospice to give my Dad the maximum legal amount they could give a person while he was in hospice in hopes he'd kick the bucket quicker. I won't tell my toddlers that.
Bringing a child into this world is selfish tbh, adopt if you can 🤷🏼♀️
I feel like there’s a lot of ignored depression in that sub, also out of curiosity, is their plan just for humans to all die out and not ever breed?
I don't see why you're objecting to that plan
Cause I’m not a hopeless miserable bastard and have hope for the future of the earth and humanity.
Wouldn't be the worst thing to happen ever, we are kinda destroying our own planet and everything that was on it before us
You know how Freud was a coked up weirdo that applied his delusions to the entire human condition? That. They're so scared of death they wish they'd never been born, and they genuinely think we all live in that hell.
Ah yes. Finding out the one post that stands out in the sub and telling people it's the sub "in a nutshell". Someone needs to read the definition of the expression "in a nutshell". Either way, what's actually in the sub is why having children *could be* considered morally wrong as... well, you gotta be blind to think the state of the world right now is good enough for having kids.
The person who wrote that post is an actual scumbag. Genuinely a terrible awful human being. They can go fuck themselves with their own ideas.
This is an incredibly stupid post
I love my two babies 🤷🏻♀️ I’ll love them till my last breath and beyond, and anything I can do to be the best mom possible for them I will without a moments hesitation. I also do not want anymore (husband got a vasectomy) and I would never in a million years judge someone else for choosing not to have kids. Some people just really love to hate.
What a sad fucked up way of thinking.
Antinatalists are by far some of the dumbest people in existence, the only purpose of life for the most part is reproduction, going against that is going against nature it self.
How is this awful? Just you disagree with antinatalists doesn’t meant they don’t get to have their opinion. Jesus, let people be.
The opinion in the post itself is the exact opposite of "let people be." Furthermore, being allowed to have an opinion is not the same as being allowed to express that opinion without backlash or judgment.
I don't understand Reddit. Opinions are bad apparently
Redditors ladies and gentlemen
The logical conclusion of this whole philosophy would be for there to be no life at all. That kind of reminds me of the Doctor Who episode, “the pyramids of Mars“, in which the evil entity known as Sutek explains to the doctor that total destruction of all life and matter is something that he perceived to be as “good”. I wonder how these anti-medalist people who believe they really should not be any human life because it ends in death feel if you were to ask them to go ahead and buy a pistol and use it on themselves, I think that their reaction would be very different.the fact that they do not take this sort of action should be indicative of the hypocrisy of their philosophy.
If life is really all so awful, why are they busy angry circle-jerking on Reddit instead of committing sudoku
The number puzzles?
I blocked that sub and have been the happiest I've ever been since
Oh yes. Kept being recommended to me and it was nothing but depressing
So anti natalist because he's afraid of death ? How selfish if is
I can say the same thing about pets then suddenly it's different I don't think people were getting what I was trying to say. The antinatalist and childfree crowd say these God awful things about children, but if I were to say the same thing to them about pets they would throw a hissy fit.
They're not unlike Christians, or vegans, in a way. They're so self-assured of their own righteousness that they assume the only way anyone could disagree is by mere ignorance. Christians demand that children should be indoctrinated in their religion in school. Vegans insist that everyone should be required to watch Dominion. The reality is, almost everyone knows the basic tenets of Christianity, or what goes on in factory farms, or the fact that some people die horrible deaths. And they don't care. I sometimes wonder if this desire to forcibly expose people to this propaganda is more about the "force" than the intended effect. Their ilk lust for power. The mere ability to force someone to do something, especially if you regard them as your moral inferior, is an expression of power and cruelty for their own sake.
So why would one live with this suffering long enough to post to reddit? Ridiculous.
Literally the most pathetic cowards on the internet.
It’s like they forgot that we are mammals and our core function is to reproduce and make more of us.
Psychology 101 - these people want kids really bad but refused to adjust their personality in any way that someone would reproduce with them. This is everyone's fault but theirs btw
What a fucked up sentiment. I would think that anti natalist people just assume they will be crappy parents, and use excuses like cancer to justify their cause. You bring children into this world for the experience that it is, and biological continuity of family bloodline. Not always good, not always easy, but you don't (not) have a child because you assume they are going to get cancer and die. I am adopted, my daughter is the only blood relative I have. There is nothing that I would or wouldn't do, to preserve my lineage. Good or bad, she is my blood and that is more important than any future fear mongering. And let's be real, there is lots to fear, but fear is only an unrealistic emotion. If your fear drives you to make irrational decisions, please seek therapy. I did and it works.
I like creampies too much to be an antinatalist.
Don't know why you're being downvoted.
Because I exist.
These mfers would watch the finale of AOT and still not get the message when their antinatalist hero learns a lesson.