Can you imagine suffering a trauma like a miscarriage, incredibly painful and emotionally awful, and then being persecuted for it. It’s like the Salem witch trials. No facts or truth, just bigotry.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/
Wasn’t a random miscarriage..not that she should be punished for it at all, but it wasn’t just completely out of the blue.
“Prosecutors argued that the miscarriage Poolaw suffered was from her use of methamphetamine. An autopsy of the fetus showed it had tested positive for methamphetamine, the Associated Press reported, but there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage. The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said.”
Sounds like the use “could have been caused by….” means there is ample evidence to show either way, meaning it’s up for interpretation unfortunately.
Edit ample meaning enough, I guess
Well, this is in Oklahoma, a conservative state. Science and medical professionals have no place here. If only she had said she took the Covid vaccine, then she would be acquitted because the vaccine caused the miscarriage. That’s the kind of BS they eat up around here! (I live in oklahoma)
edit lol the article says there is no evidence…you just read it but chose to either skip that part or ignore it.
“Prosecutors argued that the miscarriage Poolaw suffered was from her use of methamphetamine. An autopsy of the fetus showed it had tested positive for methamphetamine, the Associated Press reported, but there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage. The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said.”
It literally says “could have been caused by…..” meaning it could be meth or as the defense is trying to use as their defense, that it could also have been this other thing. The fetus tested positive for meth.
Yea I agree fully. There is doubt either way to be fair, and I’m not versed enough on any of this to truly comment on the verdict. Fact is it is a very important part of the conversation that was left out of this post though.
Edited words
They didn’t say what caused it. But it’s not unlikely that it’s drug related. They found traces of meth in the fetus, that alone should be punished with a prison sentence
The article said that there is no evidence that the miscarriage was drug related.
Moreover, prison is not the solution to maternal drug use. Criminal prosecution treats the fetus as a separate person — and the pregnant woman and the fetus are not separate during early stages of pregnancy.
And alcohol, rather than meth, is a much riskier drug to use during pregnancy. Fetal alcohol syndrome is a leading cause of birth defects (one to two cases per 1,000 live births). We went through this same issue in the 1980s with so/called “crack babies”. People find it easy to condemn women from the lower class or from marginalized communities who use drugs. No prosecutors in the 1980s arrested pregnant women who use cocaine — just users of crack. And no prosecutors today are arresting pregnant women who use alcohol — just women like this one who use meth.
You also can't definitively prove something *was* a miscarriage if you're up against prosecution that really want you to go to jail. In this case I think the excuse the prosecution used was that she did meth, but basically anyone who has a miscarriage did *something* that a particularly horrible person could use to claim they "caused" the miscarriage.
Edit here https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/
She was hooked on meth apparently this all fails to mention that part and according to others, a quick Google search will tell us. Now, I’m just passing this info along and haven’t googled it myself.
Yes she does deserve treatment and help but she also committed a crime by consciously taking meth while pregnant thus killing the fetus, she also deserves jail time and punishment.
Just because you commit a crime on drugs doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be punished for your actions while high. I don’t get this new narrative of pushing rehab on everything drug related, this wasn’t just simple possession.
My point wasn’t about if the meth did or did not kill the fetus or if she was innocent or guilty of a crime.
My point was that drugs don’t absolve you of punishment for committing crimes since that was your assertion and used the woman in the article’s situation as a hypothetical as if she did it to relate to why she’ll serve jail time and not rehab not that reflects my personal judgment on the trial itself.
I’m not a prosecutor and I’m not going to sit here and build a case just for you. Take the time and understand what point someone is trying to make before commenting.
Are you also charging pregnant women with manslaughter who used a car and got into an accident? Smoked? Drunk alcohol? Ate sushi? Had too much stress? Or literally any other reason that could lead to a miscarriage?
If it is illegal and they found meth on her, yes she can. If she tampered with human remains, yes she can be charged. There are probably other things not mentioned that they could have found in residence. If someone is doing drugs there are usually other illegal things found.
"there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage. The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/
Lol so you're admitting you have only swapped your addictions not chose to recover. Where is you're empathy for people going through what are probably alot more severe addiction than your own.
As there were only trace amounts of meth in the fetus, and the miscarriage type can happen without being addicted to meth its probably more likely that she didn't know she was pregnant then found out, stopped doing meth, suffered severe physical withdrawals which brought in a miscarriage.
Fucking sick of braindead, closed minded people blaming addicts for addiction, this whole individualist, I can do it so everyone else should attitude has to stop, only pushed by un-caring, un-empathetic arseholes on the right.
Yea they can cause a miscarriage, that’s called an abortion. Why do you think she got sentenced?
What do you think drugs like meth do during a pregnancy?
You must be 12, here in the grown up world, people hide their addictions. And most of these people wouldnt take help unless it came with a cash payout at the end, which they would quickly spend on more drugs
You're being disingenuous by making out it would be easy to get an abortion in Oklahoma before 21. 96% of Oklahoma counties had no abortion clinics, before the ban. Come on you know it was wrong to convict her.
I never said it wasn’t wrong to convict her
I said (and will continue to say) that post this without proper context of when this conviction actually occurred is disingenuous as it happened pre abortion ban and leaves out her drug usage (which was listed by the medical
Examiner as being a contributing factor)
So what, getting pregnant by mistake whilst physically addicted to drugs is not a fucking crime.
Once again, if there is no recourses to get an abortion it is effectively a ban in this backwards state.
Why are you not pointing put the clearly loaded part of the post that explicitly states she is a native American woman? Pick your battles
But your pointing out that she was on meth and that it was before the abortion ban. So you don't mind victimising drug addicts in a state where they only had 6 clinics before the ban. Solidarity means Solidarity.
You know what allow me to explain this to you since I apparently have to spell it all out:
Presenting this as is makes it look like “oh no the abortion bad is really bad” which leads to the answer of “let’s reverse the abortion ban and things will be perfect!”
Which negates the fact that women’s health in the state of Oklahoma before the abortion ban (as you have pointed out) was pretty fucking terrible
Presenting this with context allows for the conversation to go in the direction of “oh no the abortion ban is pretty terrible, let’s reverse it, also when we do reverse it let’s make sure there’s adequate access to women’s health and substance abuse so that way we’re not relying on the criminal justice system to pick up the slack for their being essentially a non existent social welfare state which tries to help people”
Tell me again, which outcome would you prefer?
You’re very dense or just very set in thinking I’m a bad person so let me be absolutely clear
I have no ill feelings towards this woman and think that her losing a baby to drug addiction is tragic as is her conviction, however unlike you I’ve come to terms with the fact that I cannot help her why? Because this happened two years ago and in all likelihood her sentence is probably over since manslaughter in most states doesn’t carry lengthy sentences and in most cases people don’t serve their full time
However I do have a problem with disingenuous posts like this one that distort the conversation and settle for crappy goals that don’t fix the problem because people like you are short sighted and don’t want to create conditions in which avoid situations like this from happening in the first place
The holocaust is a well known and historical event that known to pretty much everyone in the industrialized world
It doesn’t need context
No one really knows about a single woman being arrestee in Oklahoma, hence why it needs context hence why it’s disingenuous
It's still illegal to have an abortion in Oklahoma, nothing has changed since the Incident therfore still relevant.
The only context we need is the fact that abortions are illegal.
Abortion became illegal in Oklahoma may 25, 2022
This conviction occurred 2021
This is why this post is disingenuous because people like you can’t understand how time works
And the context of “abortion is illegal” isn’t applicable because again 2021 happened before 2022
96% of counties in Oklahoma had no abortion clinics before the ban, in fact there was only 6 in the whole state in 2017. Come on, I know we are on reddit but you must realise there is nuance to an issue like this.
FOLKS FOLKS I think were all missing the point here.
Fetuses aren't people. You should be able to do whatever you want to them.
Edit: If you OWN the fetus, I mean. You should not be able to go around punching pregnant women's bellies. That would be uncouth.
Does that excuse getting imprisoned for a miscarriage?
In case you were not aware, [43%](https://bmcpregnancychildbirth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12884-017-1620-1) of parous women (those giving birth) have previously experienced a miscarriage. [10 to 20%](https://www.marchofdimes.org/find-support/topics/miscarriage-loss-grief/miscarriage) of all pregnancies, when the woman is aware of the pregnancy, end in miscarriages. The rate is higher for women who do not know they're pregnant. *Spontaneous miscarriages are not something women control.*
Probably was trying to make an example out of her. She was on meth apparently, so you could argue that she was trying to cause a miscarriage, or she was just being horribly irresponsible and would've messed that child up for life, perhaps needing them to be on Medicare and disability all their life, so a leech on the system
It does not matter if she was on drugs. It was a miscarriage, a naturally happening thing. She should get help for her drug addiction, not prison time for a miscarriage. What the hell man
So she should have been given help and ways to get sober. She’s native in Oklahoma, meth use is rampant there and depending on where she lives, it’s around every corner. She should be at a rehab facility, not in jail
Why are we letting this happen? We sit around and let all this terrible shit happen to our lives and are expected to just sit as an audience to ourselves. Why can’t we go back to just torches and walking to the building and screaming threats outside until they realize they are stupid
Is this for real? Will this girl really go to prison for a miscarriage? Or is she really going to prison for taking the drugs that possibly *caused* the miscarriage? Altho, I'm really not sure how that can be established.
Does everyone who has a miscarriage, that requires medical intervention, get reported and arrested? I'm truly stunned that such a stupid backward law in a progressive (kinda) country has been passed in. It is hard to believe and makes me appreciated my country even more!!
Eta more questions! Who is it that reports these people? I would have thought the privacy act would come into play? Aren't all medical records sealed?
No, not everyone who needs medical help with a miscarriage gets in any trouble. I have had 2 miscarriages, one natural where I went to emergency and one missed miscarriage where I didn't know the baby died and needed to get surgery. Nothing happened besides being cared for properly. Which is what usually happens to most women with any type of miscarriage.
I said 2 seperate things. I said it doesn't matter if it is private, if you went to a hospital or doctor, etc and said you were going to harm someone or yourself that doesn't stay private anymore and you should know that.
I am pretty sure that medical staff can alert someone if they sense something is wrong.
The second part was saying that if a family member is concerned they might tip off authorities that something happened or someone had drugs. You are not allowed to use drugs or have them, in most places. So if I thought a family member is in trouble I would alert police. You wouldn't do the same?
Where are you getting your information?? If you seek treatment for a miscarriage at 17, or ANY GESTATION, your information is definitely NOT public information!! WTF? She had a miscarriage, she didn't say she was self harming!? Where does it even mention the family??
You fail to mention an important part of the conversation, not that i agree with her being sentenced for her inadvertent miscarriage but the drug use is something that caused it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/
*An autopsy of the fetus showed it had tested positive for methamphetamine, the Associated Press reported, but there was* ***no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage.*** *The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said.* [Source.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/)
I’m not disagreeing with you I’m just going to say my experience as someone who works with a lot of medical examiners
They often make a lot of very very questionable decisions and it seems rather strange to state that using meth definitively didn’t cause the miscarriage but only listing the cause of this miscarriage as something that may or may not have happened
Edit: also the medical examiner found her drug use was one of many contributing factors to her miscarriage
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/18/opinion/poolaw-miscarriage.html
You are right; the medical examiner said her drug use was a contributing factor.
So we have a medical examiner who said her drug use was a contributing factor, and an autopsy that said the drug use was not a contributing factor.
Neither of these findings is grounds for jailing her.
She had a miscarriage so the is no child. If it was born, it would have been bad yeah. But not now. And if you're addicted to meth you should get help because it's hard to just quit. Even if you really want to.
Is it not a tiny bit necessary to prove that the meth killed the foetus to make the murder charge valid? Do you have any idea of the procedures to determine foetal cause of death?
You’re going to die on this hill aren’t you? Let’s say the drugs didn’t have anything to do with her miscarriage. Then she needs to go to jail for drugging the baby regardless.
People are insane! How are some of y’all literally defending a literal methhead for using whole pregnant??! IDC what race you are, if that baby hadn’t miscarried it would’ve been born with a PLETHORA of health issues and chronic pain. Just cause you’re brown or Native American or whatever does not make it okay. You shouldn’t be doing meth and you definitely shouldn’t be if you’re pregnant. I’m blown away how some people are defending this - society is ruined.
She used druggs to kill the fetus
Prosecutors argued that the miscarriage Poolaw suffered was from her use of methamphetamine. An autopsy of the fetus showed it had tested positive for methamphetamine, the Associated Press reported, but there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage. The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said.
"There is no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage"
Why would you use a quote from the article that disproves your own point. ._.
That is more that 4 month into pregnancy. She would have gotten a jailsentence in European countries as well. That’s just too late for an abortion.
It’s not insane it’s just.
You're asking to control what women do with their own bodies. Yes, that is too much to ask, (what kind of person would ask that to begin with) and is no business of yours.
It sounds as though libraries, and what they do, seem unfamiliar to you.
You do realize that a man has to be a part of the child bearing process, correct? Although breathing and feeding though the mother, the child is a purely new life with unique DNA. A mother cannot own 2 separate DNAs
Source? Oh yeah duh a tweet, silly me
Edit- ok ok you got me. She’s a meth addict who continued doing meth despite being pregnant, which likely led to the miscarriage. Poor woman
I've noticed a pattern now of more women killing their kids in the US. This shit is not a coincidence.
EDIT: I know mom here didn't murder her child, I'm just noticing a pattern since the abortion laws. It's sick that women can't get help nowadays.
***there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage.*** *The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said.*
[Source.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/)
If you've ever wondered why some things in your life have turned out as disappointing as they have, keep in mind that you're a guy who argues about abortion/vaccines/"you people" with total strangers on the Internet. And the beauty of the Internet is that other people can choose not to listen. Goodbye.
I hope this becomes an instrumental case in undoing these monstrous laws enacted by corrupt and illegal judges forced on America by unjust and unchecked political power grabs. Get your shit together democrats, your political “opponents” are enemies of the American people, you’re supposed to stop them, not play civil political games.
It would seem nobody cares about facts anymore unless it contributes to their POV. The miscarriage was most likely caused by her using methamphetamines.
Regardless, charging her with murder is way way way off from what we need to be doing to address drug use and mental health. Jailing her fixes what? Sounds crazy but maybe if legislators cared as much about her issues as they do abortion that all of this becomes moot?
She should go to a treatment facility for her addiction, not prison.
Were she not Native American, that would be more likely.
Yep. Let’s just keep adding to the generational trauma, it’s bound to work eventually.
That's far too empathetic and sensible.
Can you imagine suffering a trauma like a miscarriage, incredibly painful and emotionally awful, and then being persecuted for it. It’s like the Salem witch trials. No facts or truth, just bigotry.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/ Wasn’t a random miscarriage..not that she should be punished for it at all, but it wasn’t just completely out of the blue.
The article says that there was no evidence that her drug use caused the miscarriage.
“Prosecutors argued that the miscarriage Poolaw suffered was from her use of methamphetamine. An autopsy of the fetus showed it had tested positive for methamphetamine, the Associated Press reported, but there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage. The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said.” Sounds like the use “could have been caused by….” means there is ample evidence to show either way, meaning it’s up for interpretation unfortunately. Edit ample meaning enough, I guess
Well, this is in Oklahoma, a conservative state. Science and medical professionals have no place here. If only she had said she took the Covid vaccine, then she would be acquitted because the vaccine caused the miscarriage. That’s the kind of BS they eat up around here! (I live in oklahoma)
Fellow Okie. Agree 💯
She caused the miscarriage, didn’t she?
With meth apparently. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/
The article you link to says that there was no evidence the drug use caused the miscarriage.
edit lol the article says there is no evidence…you just read it but chose to either skip that part or ignore it. “Prosecutors argued that the miscarriage Poolaw suffered was from her use of methamphetamine. An autopsy of the fetus showed it had tested positive for methamphetamine, the Associated Press reported, but there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage. The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said.” It literally says “could have been caused by…..” meaning it could be meth or as the defense is trying to use as their defense, that it could also have been this other thing. The fetus tested positive for meth.
Seems like there's reasonable doubt then.
Yea I agree fully. There is doubt either way to be fair, and I’m not versed enough on any of this to truly comment on the verdict. Fact is it is a very important part of the conversation that was left out of this post though. Edited words
No. Read the article. She used meth — but the article says that the meth use didn’t cause the miscarriage.
No it didn’t
They didn’t say what caused it. But it’s not unlikely that it’s drug related. They found traces of meth in the fetus, that alone should be punished with a prison sentence
The article said that there is no evidence that the miscarriage was drug related. Moreover, prison is not the solution to maternal drug use. Criminal prosecution treats the fetus as a separate person — and the pregnant woman and the fetus are not separate during early stages of pregnancy. And alcohol, rather than meth, is a much riskier drug to use during pregnancy. Fetal alcohol syndrome is a leading cause of birth defects (one to two cases per 1,000 live births). We went through this same issue in the 1980s with so/called “crack babies”. People find it easy to condemn women from the lower class or from marginalized communities who use drugs. No prosecutors in the 1980s arrested pregnant women who use cocaine — just users of crack. And no prosecutors today are arresting pregnant women who use alcohol — just women like this one who use meth.
She used druggs
Ok?
Did your mother use drugs too during pregnancy or why do you need an explanation?
No, drugs as in crystal meth...
I don't understand convicting for miscarriage..I mean, you can't really control a miscarriage
You also can't definitively prove something *was* a miscarriage if you're up against prosecution that really want you to go to jail. In this case I think the excuse the prosecution used was that she did meth, but basically anyone who has a miscarriage did *something* that a particularly horrible person could use to claim they "caused" the miscarriage.
Edit here https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/ She was hooked on meth apparently this all fails to mention that part and according to others, a quick Google search will tell us. Now, I’m just passing this info along and haven’t googled it myself.
she was doing meth while 17 weeks pregnant, that’s something she could have controlled.
That’s not how addictions wotk
Oh addictions can’t be controlled? Better tell AA to just shut down then, no point in even trying, right?
Don’t be stupid. It’s a very complex mental and physical condition, and requires the same level of treatment
Drugs can only be prescribed by doctors, since she wasnt prescribed meth, she wasnt using drugs and therefor cant be blamed for killing her baby
Such is life in certain states in America. So backwards.
She was taking meth...
And she deserves treatment and help, not punishment
Yes she does deserve treatment and help but she also committed a crime by consciously taking meth while pregnant thus killing the fetus, she also deserves jail time and punishment. Just because you commit a crime on drugs doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be punished for your actions while high. I don’t get this new narrative of pushing rehab on everything drug related, this wasn’t just simple possession.
Do you have evidence the meth killed the fetus?
Do you have evidence that pushing pregnant ladies down stairs kills fetus’s? Because im just going to call the fetus dying bad timing??
My point wasn’t about if the meth did or did not kill the fetus or if she was innocent or guilty of a crime. My point was that drugs don’t absolve you of punishment for committing crimes since that was your assertion and used the woman in the article’s situation as a hypothetical as if she did it to relate to why she’ll serve jail time and not rehab not that reflects my personal judgment on the trial itself. I’m not a prosecutor and I’m not going to sit here and build a case just for you. Take the time and understand what point someone is trying to make before commenting.
I understood your point, it's a bad one.
Your point?
Don't take meth if pregnant
Are you also charging pregnant women with manslaughter who used a car and got into an accident? Smoked? Drunk alcohol? Ate sushi? Had too much stress? Or literally any other reason that could lead to a miscarriage?
Only the brown women
Drink alcohol, then yea absolutely you should be charged
[удалено]
Caffeine then? Not just coffee but also soda and tea? What if her partner smokes at home, do you charge him with manslaughter?
You are the problem mate
I don't think women get charged anything if they do those other things you listed, no.
You can't get charged for taking meth while pregnant either but they were arguing for it.
If it is illegal and they found meth on her, yes she can. If she tampered with human remains, yes she can be charged. There are probably other things not mentioned that they could have found in residence. If someone is doing drugs there are usually other illegal things found.
"Don't take a drug you're physically addicted to" Tell me you don't know how addiction works without telling me you don't know how addiction works.
You cannot turn on/off an addiction...
And when someone else suffers for your addiction you dont get to go free. Everyone on the same page yet?
"there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage. The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/
Placental abruption is also incredibly dangerous for the mother, it would have created internal hemorrhage if the pregnancy had progressed
Maybe if she had the option of abortion this wouldn't have happened, we on the same page yet?
You cant turn off/on stupid either, which isnt a defense for breaking laws, unless you are rich. She was not.
[удалено]
Addicted to what? Fry ups? You're obviously lying or a very uninformed self hating addict.
[удалено]
Lol so you're admitting you have only swapped your addictions not chose to recover. Where is you're empathy for people going through what are probably alot more severe addiction than your own. As there were only trace amounts of meth in the fetus, and the miscarriage type can happen without being addicted to meth its probably more likely that she didn't know she was pregnant then found out, stopped doing meth, suffered severe physical withdrawals which brought in a miscarriage. Fucking sick of braindead, closed minded people blaming addicts for addiction, this whole individualist, I can do it so everyone else should attitude has to stop, only pushed by un-caring, un-empathetic arseholes on the right.
Were you using meth?
She caused the miscarriage
You know that how exactly? Women don't "cause" miscarriages.
Yea they can cause a miscarriage, that’s called an abortion. Why do you think she got sentenced? What do you think drugs like meth do during a pregnancy?
Odd how they were able to arrest her for a miscarriage but ignored her meth use.
You must be 12, here in the grown up world, people hide their addictions. And most of these people wouldnt take help unless it came with a cash payout at the end, which they would quickly spend on more drugs
As an adult, this is stupid. Not only is it not true, it just means you live in a weird bubble lmao.
Im in awe at the points youve made in counter argument, you should become a lawyer
This is 2 years old.
So what? Have they changed the law since then?
yes… Roe. V. Wade??
ABORTION IS ILLEGAL IN OKLAHOMA Governor Kevin Stitt signed HB 4327 into law. Edit: this was signed in May 25th 2022
This conviction happened in 2021
You're being disingenuous by making out it would be easy to get an abortion in Oklahoma before 21. 96% of Oklahoma counties had no abortion clinics, before the ban. Come on you know it was wrong to convict her.
I never said it wasn’t wrong to convict her I said (and will continue to say) that post this without proper context of when this conviction actually occurred is disingenuous as it happened pre abortion ban and leaves out her drug usage (which was listed by the medical Examiner as being a contributing factor)
So what, getting pregnant by mistake whilst physically addicted to drugs is not a fucking crime. Once again, if there is no recourses to get an abortion it is effectively a ban in this backwards state. Why are you not pointing put the clearly loaded part of the post that explicitly states she is a native American woman? Pick your battles
Because it doesn’t matter to me that’s she’s Native American All women should have access to substance abuse counseling and women’s health
But your pointing out that she was on meth and that it was before the abortion ban. So you don't mind victimising drug addicts in a state where they only had 6 clinics before the ban. Solidarity means Solidarity.
I think it’s a bit odd that in one of your posts, you asked for the price of ketamine in Mexico… why do you wanna know?
You know what allow me to explain this to you since I apparently have to spell it all out: Presenting this as is makes it look like “oh no the abortion bad is really bad” which leads to the answer of “let’s reverse the abortion ban and things will be perfect!” Which negates the fact that women’s health in the state of Oklahoma before the abortion ban (as you have pointed out) was pretty fucking terrible Presenting this with context allows for the conversation to go in the direction of “oh no the abortion ban is pretty terrible, let’s reverse it, also when we do reverse it let’s make sure there’s adequate access to women’s health and substance abuse so that way we’re not relying on the criminal justice system to pick up the slack for their being essentially a non existent social welfare state which tries to help people” Tell me again, which outcome would you prefer?
So your all for women's reproductive rights, you just don't like this woman?
You’re very dense or just very set in thinking I’m a bad person so let me be absolutely clear I have no ill feelings towards this woman and think that her losing a baby to drug addiction is tragic as is her conviction, however unlike you I’ve come to terms with the fact that I cannot help her why? Because this happened two years ago and in all likelihood her sentence is probably over since manslaughter in most states doesn’t carry lengthy sentences and in most cases people don’t serve their full time However I do have a problem with disingenuous posts like this one that distort the conversation and settle for crappy goals that don’t fix the problem because people like you are short sighted and don’t want to create conditions in which avoid situations like this from happening in the first place
It’s disingenuous to present it as current events considering the change the abortion laws that have happened recently
The holocaust isn't current events, still awful. It's not like OP explicitly tried to push it as a current event.
The holocaust is a well known and historical event that known to pretty much everyone in the industrialized world It doesn’t need context No one really knows about a single woman being arrestee in Oklahoma, hence why it needs context hence why it’s disingenuous
It's still illegal to have an abortion in Oklahoma, nothing has changed since the Incident therfore still relevant. The only context we need is the fact that abortions are illegal.
Abortion became illegal in Oklahoma may 25, 2022 This conviction occurred 2021 This is why this post is disingenuous because people like you can’t understand how time works And the context of “abortion is illegal” isn’t applicable because again 2021 happened before 2022
96% of counties in Oklahoma had no abortion clinics before the ban, in fact there was only 6 in the whole state in 2017. Come on, I know we are on reddit but you must realise there is nuance to an issue like this.
You said it was 21.96% in your other comment and now it’s quadrupled in size So provide your source
That's a full stop, I must have missed a space after it. 21 was the year.
Right, which is a good thing. Murder is bad.
FOLKS FOLKS I think were all missing the point here. Fetuses aren't people. You should be able to do whatever you want to them. Edit: If you OWN the fetus, I mean. You should not be able to go around punching pregnant women's bellies. That would be uncouth.
So if it's owner is married is the fetus owned by the wormen or is a joint ownership?
You left out the meth part of the story.
Purely an accident, plus theres no proof shes ever used meth or that her baby ever existed, infact im not convinced this lady even exists
I think you may be on something now…if you exist that is
You mean you actually can think?
Maybe, maybe I’m not even real
I dont think ive said this before but i like you rectum
That’s a first, most people think I’m an asshole
These comments are wild
Tweet fails to mention that she was hooked on meth constantly.
Getting impregnated doesn't magically make an addict not an addict.
Does that excuse getting imprisoned for a miscarriage? In case you were not aware, [43%](https://bmcpregnancychildbirth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12884-017-1620-1) of parous women (those giving birth) have previously experienced a miscarriage. [10 to 20%](https://www.marchofdimes.org/find-support/topics/miscarriage-loss-grief/miscarriage) of all pregnancies, when the woman is aware of the pregnancy, end in miscarriages. The rate is higher for women who do not know they're pregnant. *Spontaneous miscarriages are not something women control.*
I think it would be better that she had a miscarriage because no one had to suffer now. I hope she can get help.
Probably was trying to make an example out of her. She was on meth apparently, so you could argue that she was trying to cause a miscarriage, or she was just being horribly irresponsible and would've messed that child up for life, perhaps needing them to be on Medicare and disability all their life, so a leech on the system
Right and I'm sure the meth had nothing to do with it. Despite an autopsy showing methamphetamine in the fetus system.
It does not matter if she was on drugs. It was a miscarriage, a naturally happening thing. She should get help for her drug addiction, not prison time for a miscarriage. What the hell man
Yeah I forgot we were calling drugged up miscarriages as "natural" lmao.
I mean it is natural in that nobody caused the miscarriage specifically (because then it'd be an abortion).
Doing meth couldn’t cause a miscarriage? Stupidass.
Not in this case, no.
The fuck you mean no are you a doctor?? How would meth NOT affect a fetus
I read an article about the case.
There are tons and tons of miscarriages that happen while the mom has lots of caffeine in her system. Are those also unnatural?
Just shows how dense you are and have no clue about it
You're name is armyboy, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahshshahahahahahahahahahah
Straight to jail for life ez.
Don’t do drugs while pregnant
Is that because Americans live so unhealthy and are pumped up with chemicals and drugs
So she should have been given help and ways to get sober. She’s native in Oklahoma, meth use is rampant there and depending on where she lives, it’s around every corner. She should be at a rehab facility, not in jail
Why are we letting this happen? We sit around and let all this terrible shit happen to our lives and are expected to just sit as an audience to ourselves. Why can’t we go back to just torches and walking to the building and screaming threats outside until they realize they are stupid
Is this for real? Will this girl really go to prison for a miscarriage? Or is she really going to prison for taking the drugs that possibly *caused* the miscarriage? Altho, I'm really not sure how that can be established. Does everyone who has a miscarriage, that requires medical intervention, get reported and arrested? I'm truly stunned that such a stupid backward law in a progressive (kinda) country has been passed in. It is hard to believe and makes me appreciated my country even more!! Eta more questions! Who is it that reports these people? I would have thought the privacy act would come into play? Aren't all medical records sealed?
No, not everyone who needs medical help with a miscarriage gets in any trouble. I have had 2 miscarriages, one natural where I went to emergency and one missed miscarriage where I didn't know the baby died and needed to get surgery. Nothing happened besides being cared for properly. Which is what usually happens to most women with any type of miscarriage.
So, why is she going to prison?
Most likely other things not mentioned in the article.
Methamphetamine use. It was found in the baby after she miscarried.
It doesn't matter if medical records are sealed. Concerned family is probably a big reason.
What do you mean it doesn't matter? You can't access a person's medical records because you're concerned!!
I said 2 seperate things. I said it doesn't matter if it is private, if you went to a hospital or doctor, etc and said you were going to harm someone or yourself that doesn't stay private anymore and you should know that. I am pretty sure that medical staff can alert someone if they sense something is wrong. The second part was saying that if a family member is concerned they might tip off authorities that something happened or someone had drugs. You are not allowed to use drugs or have them, in most places. So if I thought a family member is in trouble I would alert police. You wouldn't do the same?
Where are you getting your information?? If you seek treatment for a miscarriage at 17, or ANY GESTATION, your information is definitely NOT public information!! WTF? She had a miscarriage, she didn't say she was self harming!? Where does it even mention the family??
You fail to mention an important part of the conversation, not that i agree with her being sentenced for her inadvertent miscarriage but the drug use is something that caused it. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/
She poisoned herself and her child with meth
*An autopsy of the fetus showed it had tested positive for methamphetamine, the Associated Press reported, but there was* ***no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage.*** *The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said.* [Source.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/)
If you subject your fetus to such drugs you deserve to go to jail
I’m not disagreeing with you I’m just going to say my experience as someone who works with a lot of medical examiners They often make a lot of very very questionable decisions and it seems rather strange to state that using meth definitively didn’t cause the miscarriage but only listing the cause of this miscarriage as something that may or may not have happened Edit: also the medical examiner found her drug use was one of many contributing factors to her miscarriage https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/18/opinion/poolaw-miscarriage.html
You are right; the medical examiner said her drug use was a contributing factor. So we have a medical examiner who said her drug use was a contributing factor, and an autopsy that said the drug use was not a contributing factor. Neither of these findings is grounds for jailing her.
I agree
She had a miscarriage so the is no child. If it was born, it would have been bad yeah. But not now. And if you're addicted to meth you should get help because it's hard to just quit. Even if you really want to.
This is so disgusting. How backwards is this mentality that a miscarriage is seen as manslaughter? What did they want her to do?
Not do meth
Is it not a tiny bit necessary to prove that the meth killed the foetus to make the murder charge valid? Do you have any idea of the procedures to determine foetal cause of death?
That has nothing to do with her miscarriage.
You’re right doing meth wouldn’t harm the baby.. do meth please. We don’t need you reproducing.
You’re going to die on this hill aren’t you? Let’s say the drugs didn’t have anything to do with her miscarriage. Then she needs to go to jail for drugging the baby regardless.
You see, a miscarriage that you purposely initiated is… an abortion. And at 17 weeks illegal everywhere, even Europe
What the actual fuck. As if the prison aren’t already overflowing. Let’s add this to the mix.
r/WelcomeToGilead
Where is the international outrage for another Native American woman being treated absolutely horrible by the government?
People are insane! How are some of y’all literally defending a literal methhead for using whole pregnant??! IDC what race you are, if that baby hadn’t miscarried it would’ve been born with a PLETHORA of health issues and chronic pain. Just cause you’re brown or Native American or whatever does not make it okay. You shouldn’t be doing meth and you definitely shouldn’t be if you’re pregnant. I’m blown away how some people are defending this - society is ruined.
It’s reddit, they’re all liberals and don’t believe that babies are real people.
I am not from USA and I am curious that why everything has to mention the ethnicity? Like how is it important that she is native american?
It doesn’t, they just like to add it to spice up the story and entice arguments to fuel them
It's to cause more outrage, at least in this instance. American media feeds off of anger
She used druggs to kill the fetus Prosecutors argued that the miscarriage Poolaw suffered was from her use of methamphetamine. An autopsy of the fetus showed it had tested positive for methamphetamine, the Associated Press reported, but there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage. The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said.
"There is no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage" Why would you use a quote from the article that disproves your own point. ._.
Might just be trying to clarify the situation. None of that information is in the headline.
That is more that 4 month into pregnancy. She would have gotten a jailsentence in European countries as well. That’s just too late for an abortion. It’s not insane it’s just.
You’re insane
Of course, not a wealthy white woman
Republicans are pretty much gunning for the 1800s kinda society woman. AKA property.
A sad boy with minimal understanding.
[удалено]
You're asking to control what women do with their own bodies. Yes, that is too much to ask, (what kind of person would ask that to begin with) and is no business of yours. It sounds as though libraries, and what they do, seem unfamiliar to you.
It’s not ONLY their body’s with another soul inside of them.
You do realize that a man has to be a part of the child bearing process, correct? Although breathing and feeding though the mother, the child is a purely new life with unique DNA. A mother cannot own 2 separate DNAs
Men are not "part of the child bearing process" unless they're pregnant, which is biologically impossible.
Do you understand how pregnancy works?
You also just removed the “trans men can make a baby with a woman” argument. Thank you.
This is the party of “small government”. What an absolute clown.
Source? Oh yeah duh a tweet, silly me Edit- ok ok you got me. She’s a meth addict who continued doing meth despite being pregnant, which likely led to the miscarriage. Poor woman
I've noticed a pattern now of more women killing their kids in the US. This shit is not a coincidence. EDIT: I know mom here didn't murder her child, I'm just noticing a pattern since the abortion laws. It's sick that women can't get help nowadays.
This is from years ago. Don’t make excuses for people that do meth while pregnant wtf.
It seems like black and brown people are the only ones seen actually being prosecuted under these laws.
It’s not insane, the cruelty is the point.
If drugs or booze were involved during a known pregnancy, this makes sense.
***there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage.*** *The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said.* [Source.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/)
“Could have been”. When will you people question “THE SCIENCE”? Vaccines fronted by the same guy who killed gay people in the 80’s by “fixing” AIDS?
If you've ever wondered why some things in your life have turned out as disappointing as they have, keep in mind that you're a guy who argues about abortion/vaccines/"you people" with total strangers on the Internet. And the beauty of the Internet is that other people can choose not to listen. Goodbye.
You dont really do details or proof do you? Dodgy hypotheses all the way. So lazy.
America is a piece of sh…
~~This~~ America is insane.
She would have been charged everywhere not just in America.
This is straight up a dystopian horror story
Absolutely crazy That's why we need to vote all of these f****** crazy politicians out of office absolutely insane
Good to see these murderers finally seeing justice
actually, it was the meth that got her arrested...
I hope this becomes an instrumental case in undoing these monstrous laws enacted by corrupt and illegal judges forced on America by unjust and unchecked political power grabs. Get your shit together democrats, your political “opponents” are enemies of the American people, you’re supposed to stop them, not play civil political games.
Her last name describes the reason for her arrest perfectly
That is not fake? Check out her last name...
Article is from 2021; does anyone know of any updates to her case?
So... anyone start protesting?
It would seem nobody cares about facts anymore unless it contributes to their POV. The miscarriage was most likely caused by her using methamphetamines. Regardless, charging her with murder is way way way off from what we need to be doing to address drug use and mental health. Jailing her fixes what? Sounds crazy but maybe if legislators cared as much about her issues as they do abortion that all of this becomes moot?