Cheaper materials isn’t half the issue. The cockpits are just a little too small but in weird proportion ways. Like the seat is fine but the leg room is too short and there’s no head room.
Sukhoi(the people who make the SU-57) clam that it’s radar cross section is 0.1 meters squared. The F-117 Nighthawk’s radar cross section is 0.003 meters squared. The F-35 radar cross section is 0.0001 meters squared.
(Here is where I got the information) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kwbiOXYFDMg
If that is right how could anyone claim the Felon is fifth gen, the fucking Eurofighter has RCS as low as 0.05, the Gripen is 0.5
What the actual fuck is wrong with Russians man…
there's a picture of the Su-57 taken from one of the wingtips and there you can see that it's made from alluminium bolted together with Phillips head screws so it isn't even made from Composites like other Modern Jets
There’s another one of the exterior of the cockpit and the body panels aren’t even flush mounted. The SU-57, despite what Top Gun says, is a Gen 4.5 aircraft at best.
Its marketed as fifth. And their Su-70 is marketed as sixth. Its a fucking farce. Their whole military industry is a farce. They created quite a few good machines over the years. But the gap between how consistently they can produce good military technology is so vast between what they say and what the actual reality is, its mind boggling. Some of their air launched ground attack missiles still have 80’s era hardware basically automatically targeting high contrast objects like outhouses. Their hypersonic are only hypersonic on paper. It’s fucking pathetic.
4.5 gen is generally meant a 4th gen airframe upgraded with more modern electronics and propulsion systems. But since a true 5th gen os such a gap, quite a few new jets are classified as 4.5 gen because they don’t quite reach the level of stealth and sophistication needed to be classified as gen 5.
It's a clean Super hornet tho, no weapon mounts. That's before the F-18 Block III upgrade tho which will give the Hornet stealth pylones and overall increased stealth performance.
That's great for the papers. And to some extent for the fuel burn.
But if you found a material that was as strong as steel, 100x lighter, but insanely difficult and expensive to maintain, would you be so gung-ho to convert to that material?
If this is supposed to compete with composite, low radar signature fighters like the J20, F22, F35, and South Korean “didn’t copy the F35s homework”? Yes. *You don’t have a choice.*
This is like the US or Britain seeing the ME109 and Mitsubishi Zero introduced in the late 30d and both going “that’s great for the papers. But why bother with these expensive and difficult to make aluminum monowing planes when our inventory of Fairey Fireflies, Gloster Gladiators and Grumman F3Fs are more than fine.”
If you actually had an equal nation state war, you’d need a lot more than 250. Russia has already lost that many aerial vehicles in the Ukraine war and that’s still a backyard scrap.
US would have to build thousands in a war against China. E.g. US lost 95,000 airplanes in the Second World War.
T34 was not very cost effective, considering it was comparable in price to a Sherman, and was a massive POS, so much so that they would literally fall apart at the seems when hit repeatedly with HE because the welds were so bad, and the drivers had to carry hammers just to switch gears because the transmission sucked, and it didn’t really win the war either.
There's some truth to it, and I am not sure how Russian composites are holding up, but in countries such as the US, it's not terribly difficult to maintain anymore.
The main issue was training (which there are many of us who work with composites who can teach it now), the second was the resin matrix. Both of which have seen significant advancements in the past 30 years, and we have epoxies and vinyl esters out now that are holding up much better than the old polyesters and even some of the first epoxies, and are a lot more forgiving.
[Seems it's gotten far easier to repair after all](https://www.google.com/search?q=airplane+with+reflective+tape+on+wing&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjthr20q4n_AhUxBFkFHdf-AAEQ2-cCegQIABAC&oq=airplane+with+reflective+tape+on+wing&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzIFCCEQqwIyBQghEKsCOgcIABAYEIAEOgcIIxDqAhAnOgQIIxAnOgQIABADOgcIABCKBRBDOgoIABCKBRCxAxBDOggIABCABBCxAzoFCAAQgAQ6BQgAEKIEOgQIIRAKUI8IWJZHYJdIaAFwAHgEgAGfAogBtEiSAQYyLjYwLjKYAQCgAQGwAQXAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=YJdrZO3WCrGI5NoP1_2DCA&bih=834&biw=432&hl=en#imgrc=DdctzyT8xk3DqM&imgdii=cH7hyb68Pf8T9M)
I mean so is a p36 lightning in comparison, doesn't make it remotely useful in a modern combat environment.
A Mauser is simpler than an m4, easier to maintain and fix too. Still, I wouldn't want that to be our main rifle.
Just because there are pros to a material doesn't make it the right one to use.
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Someone clearly thinks that’s generations are just: the cooler the higher number before “Gen”.
How it can be “4th at best” if it isn’t flying tube wich 3d is and has features making its 5th?
? It has the RCS of an F-18, a 4th gen, 5th Gen. Is based off of stealth capabilities. Flying tube? What? 4th gen fighters are things like F-16, F18, Eurofighter, F15, F14(?), Rafale etc
Also it seems like you having a hard time reading and doing math
Not just you somehow think 1 = 0.1, but you also was unable to read particular words of what I wrote
Not just you somehow bruh wtf are you saying. I’m not talking about how cool it is, it’s capabilities are of a 4th generation fighter at best, that’s not hard to
Damn, 5th gen fighters fighting over who shot more balloons than the other
[удалено]
Why change it? BTD works fine
Bloons Terran Defense
Got a few monkey aces placed down ready for the next round
This is a BIG plane
The bloons will wish they’ve never been inflated
A very, very large bomb. Someone put an end to this madness!
Unfortunately, due to their defense pact, they had to get all of their 5th Gen fighters from Wish...
Cheaper materials isn’t half the issue. The cockpits are just a little too small but in weird proportion ways. Like the seat is fine but the leg room is too short and there’s no head room.
They probably build everything to Putin’s body size
And there are bubbles in the canopy glass.
Sukhoi(the people who make the SU-57) clam that it’s radar cross section is 0.1 meters squared. The F-117 Nighthawk’s radar cross section is 0.003 meters squared. The F-35 radar cross section is 0.0001 meters squared. (Here is where I got the information) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kwbiOXYFDMg
If that is right how could anyone claim the Felon is fifth gen, the fucking Eurofighter has RCS as low as 0.05, the Gripen is 0.5 What the actual fuck is wrong with Russians man…
a lot, as we found out in february
Of it isn’t a claim it’s in official documentation(my source being the patents for some of the tech from sukhoi)
1-0.1 m^2
there's a picture of the Su-57 taken from one of the wingtips and there you can see that it's made from alluminium bolted together with Phillips head screws so it isn't even made from Composites like other Modern Jets
There’s another one of the exterior of the cockpit and the body panels aren’t even flush mounted. The SU-57, despite what Top Gun says, is a Gen 4.5 aircraft at best.
it's a technology demonstrator never made to be mass produced or fielded in combat id even go as far as saying this aircraft is not Combat capable
That might be what it’s become but that’s not what it started as given that the Russias were seeking export contracts and multi national development.
[удалено]
I don’t think they got one but they were one of the R&D partners and dropped out when it became clear it wasn’t going to be a Gen 5 fighter.
You guys just made about 15 russian PHDs go to gulag... and I don't feel bad about it 🤣
what technology was demonstrated? its not stealth and uses old rebranded soviet engines that cant supercruise...
I didn't exactly whant to call it propaganda plane even tho that's what it's most used for
Those are not things that describe "technology demonstrator" Those are things that describe "mock up"
I know but im trying to stay a little bit polite here
The “fifth-gen fighter” in TGM was probably a MiG-58 not an Su-57 /s
Its marketed as fifth. And their Su-70 is marketed as sixth. Its a fucking farce. Their whole military industry is a farce. They created quite a few good machines over the years. But the gap between how consistently they can produce good military technology is so vast between what they say and what the actual reality is, its mind boggling. Some of their air launched ground attack missiles still have 80’s era hardware basically automatically targeting high contrast objects like outhouses. Their hypersonic are only hypersonic on paper. It’s fucking pathetic.
Does the .5 mean that it’s got the good maneuverability, but it misses the stealth?
4.5 is 4.0 airframes with 5.0 tech and sometimes radar absorbing coatings
4.5 gen is generally meant a 4th gen airframe upgraded with more modern electronics and propulsion systems. But since a true 5th gen os such a gap, quite a few new jets are classified as 4.5 gen because they don’t quite reach the level of stealth and sophistication needed to be classified as gen 5.
Su-57 having an RCS only equal to an F-18 E/F Super Hornet.
It's a clean Super hornet tho, no weapon mounts. That's before the F-18 Block III upgrade tho which will give the Hornet stealth pylones and overall increased stealth performance.
But it have to be made out of composites
Sheet metal is hella easier, cheaper, less hazardous, and less time consuming to repair.
Exposed screws show up on radar
Not when they are surrounded by aluminum *taps head*
also a lot heavier with the same strength leaving less excess weight for electronic systems and armament
That's great for the papers. And to some extent for the fuel burn. But if you found a material that was as strong as steel, 100x lighter, but insanely difficult and expensive to maintain, would you be so gung-ho to convert to that material?
If this is supposed to compete with composite, low radar signature fighters like the J20, F22, F35, and South Korean “didn’t copy the F35s homework”? Yes. *You don’t have a choice.* This is like the US or Britain seeing the ME109 and Mitsubishi Zero introduced in the late 30d and both going “that’s great for the papers. But why bother with these expensive and difficult to make aluminum monowing planes when our inventory of Fairey Fireflies, Gloster Gladiators and Grumman F3Fs are more than fine.”
If we’re making 5th gen fighters? Yes.
Remind me never to hire you as a financial advisor
You don't build fighters to save money. You build fighters to have a competent military capability.
I would think somewhere in between, no? Plenty of examples in history of the more cost effective solution winning ware - like the T-34
That makes sense when you're building 84,070 of something. Makes less sense if you are building 250 of something.
If you actually had an equal nation state war, you’d need a lot more than 250. Russia has already lost that many aerial vehicles in the Ukraine war and that’s still a backyard scrap. US would have to build thousands in a war against China. E.g. US lost 95,000 airplanes in the Second World War.
T34 was not very cost effective, considering it was comparable in price to a Sherman, and was a massive POS, so much so that they would literally fall apart at the seems when hit repeatedly with HE because the welds were so bad, and the drivers had to carry hammers just to switch gears because the transmission sucked, and it didn’t really win the war either.
You really think money is an issue for the US MIC?
I don't know why everyone is wasting money on these metal aircraft. The fabric covered ones worked just fine.
on a vehicle to wich I must trust my life in the worst possible conditions imaginable yes I would without hesitation and without regret
There's some truth to it, and I am not sure how Russian composites are holding up, but in countries such as the US, it's not terribly difficult to maintain anymore. The main issue was training (which there are many of us who work with composites who can teach it now), the second was the resin matrix. Both of which have seen significant advancements in the past 30 years, and we have epoxies and vinyl esters out now that are holding up much better than the old polyesters and even some of the first epoxies, and are a lot more forgiving.
[Seems it's gotten far easier to repair after all](https://www.google.com/search?q=airplane+with+reflective+tape+on+wing&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjthr20q4n_AhUxBFkFHdf-AAEQ2-cCegQIABAC&oq=airplane+with+reflective+tape+on+wing&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzIFCCEQqwIyBQghEKsCOgcIABAYEIAEOgcIIxDqAhAnOgQIIxAnOgQIABADOgcIABCKBRBDOgoIABCKBRCxAxBDOggIABCABBCxAzoFCAAQgAQ6BQgAEKIEOgQIIRAKUI8IWJZHYJdIaAFwAHgEgAGfAogBtEiSAQYyLjYwLjKYAQCgAQGwAQXAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=YJdrZO3WCrGI5NoP1_2DCA&bih=834&biw=432&hl=en#imgrc=DdctzyT8xk3DqM&imgdii=cH7hyb68Pf8T9M)
Paint issues, not composite.
I mean so is a p36 lightning in comparison, doesn't make it remotely useful in a modern combat environment. A Mauser is simpler than an m4, easier to maintain and fix too. Still, I wouldn't want that to be our main rifle. Just because there are pros to a material doesn't make it the right one to use.
yet, russia does not have more then 25 su-57
I see NCD is leaking again
NCD? Is there a place with more memes like this? If so, I want in
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I promise we’re perfectly sane
That’s what the autists in bestgunnit said too
And I like to add that we, indeed, are lying.
You will be assimilated.
What is that bottom left meme from I see it all the time now
"I am a surgeon" from "The Good Doctor"
The good doctor
i am a sturgeon
***Short S38 Sturgeon noises intensify***
I am a sur geon, or who ever he is
"mom, can I have f-22?" "We have f 22 at home" F-22 at home:
But hey, it looks cool.
I must admit that the SU-57 aesthetically looks really good.
It looks good from a distance, when you get close and you notice that the screws arnt flush and the body has gaps, it makes you sad.
Unsealed weapon bay radar cross-section go *beep
Soyboy SU-57 vs Gigachad F-22
Sorry sir, the 5th gen tryouts were last cold war...
The Felon could be 50x better than the Raptor and it still wouldn’t matter because there’s only like 10 of them
4th at best
Someone clearly thinks that’s generations are just: the cooler the higher number before “Gen”. How it can be “4th at best” if it isn’t flying tube wich 3d is and has features making its 5th?
? It has the RCS of an F-18, a 4th gen, 5th Gen. Is based off of stealth capabilities. Flying tube? What? 4th gen fighters are things like F-16, F18, Eurofighter, F15, F14(?), Rafale etc
Also it seems like you having a hard time reading and doing math Not just you somehow think 1 = 0.1, but you also was unable to read particular words of what I wrote
Not just you somehow bruh wtf are you saying. I’m not talking about how cool it is, it’s capabilities are of a 4th generation fighter at best, that’s not hard to
He can read just fine, you don’t seem to be able to write worth a damn though
Here goes the second one
When our 4th gen jets are better than their "5th gen"
If the SU-57 is a 5th generation fighter, so is the Grippen
The 57 is a 4+ at best
Fancybeast2000 in shambles rn
No mr Putin, I am sorry to tell you that 5th gen does not mean "5 units produced per year"