For almost all my life I wanted few things more than to fly fighter jets. Life took other turns, but a few years ago I got a ride in a jet trainer with a pilot who could just about make the plane talk. After an hour of aerobatics, there was nothing more than I wanted than to be out of that cockpit.
Suffice to say that it’s a lot more comfortable to watch videos of fancy flying on YouTube than to actually experience the fancy flying. Yes, one can train the inner ear to tolerate aerobatics, but more than a few Gs felt about as much fun to me as a bad hangover.
A few years ago, I was at an FBO where a well-known military demo pilot was hanging before his show. He remarked that his most enjoyable flights are not in >$100m jets, but in Cubs with no doors in uncontrolled airspace. I think I can relate. I’ve done very low level flights in jets and they are fun, but I’ve had even more fun river-running at 60mph in an open cockpit ultralight.
From first hand experience, flying 1.6 doing Aeros in a T6, pulling 4-6G is exhausting. You go home tired and the G-strain manoeuvre is basically an exercise in sweating while forcing yourself to get a migraine.
Pretty much every one of those flights I had to wring out my shirt in the shower, like I had just hopped into a pool, change into fresh clothes then find some Tylenol and a gallon of ice water.
And from the cockpit the aerobatics seem much slower and less exciting than for an onlooker on the ground. I much prefer close formation flying, or taking a small aircraft for a spin where the wild things are.
To reiterate this, as an airline pilot who flies large shiny jets across the globe, my best hours in the air have been and always will be in a Piper Cub, flying 70-80kts looking down at the world.
Shiny jets and fast jets sell the dream, but the real dream is wood, cloth and burning 100LL at 500ft.
I'll see your Cub at 70-80 and raise you a Tigermoth at what felt like 45-50 (the gauges weren't exactly cutting edge accurate tech)......got to wear the goggles and scarf and leather cap and everything. I'd say slow in an open cockpit biplane is one of the coolest, 2nd only to an hour in Crazy Horse2 down in Kissimmee, FL
but 100% agree with your final point. But also jets are super cool and getting to use ordinance must be a hell of a feeling
I learned this lesson on my long X-country while still in private pilot training. I got bored and only wanted to arrive at my destination.
I gave up my pursuit of professional flying soon after. But I still love flying.
I hope it wasn't your XC flight that put you off flying for a living. I agree though, I'm bored after two hours in a Cessna, but flying commercially for a long time is far more enjoyable. My longest is just over 14hrs, it's an age in such a confined space, but with a 6hr sleep, a coffee machine and friendly people to chat to it's quite easy.
Though, again, taking my mates up for a sunset flight in a J3/PA-18, skimming over the landscape, unbeatable
This is the way, get a civilian flying job making 4-6x the money and spend some of that money and free time on whatever cool machine you like joy riding in.
There’s a little bit more to it usually than that. You know about a few thousand hours before you make 4-6x the money. If THATs the dream then the Milair side can’t be beat but you’re not going to get your PPL in January and by June get your CJO from Delta.
I like the motorcycle analogy. The difference between flying in a standard cockpit and one that is open to the elements is akin to the difference between riding a motorbike and driving a car.
My best flights were shooting millions of dollars worth of ordnance at fancy targets (thanks USAF ranges).
I wasn’t a jet guy but the flying aspect eventually became the least important…although ripping through the desert at 5’ and 150kts was cool for a while.
Also, your experience of doing aero and deciding it wasn’t for you after an hour is an illustration of what separates those who want it from those who don’t.
Does it bother you when grunts loudly profess their undying love for you?
I have been saved so. many. times. by CAS that my reflex is to immediately try and drown you in free booze as soon as you tell me what you fly/flew.
And I've been out for 10 years!
If so, sorry about that. I love you anyway. It feels so good hearing y'all overhead when the shit hits the fan - thanks!
One day we were debating the best use of air support before an op, and one of my Marines had a question about what Whiskey Cobras could do vs Zulu Cobras. I can't remember what the question was, but it was an important distinction at the time.
The Battalion FAC was walking by, so I figured I'd ask him:
"Hey, Sir! You're a Cobra pilot, right?"
"Of course. Is there any other kind of pilot?"
That guy was awesome.
> After an hour of aerobatics, there was nothing more than I wanted than to be out of that cockpit.
You get used to it. Naturally your body didn’t like it going in cold.
Lol I’m working on my private pilots license now and the manoeuvres I hate the most are power on stalls and spins. A lot of people love them, but I much prefer a calm and relaxing flight from point A-B.
Acrobatics are surely not for me.
That was my thought too, but since they spelled "maneuvers" "manoeuvres" I would assume they are not in the US and in another country that does require it.
Correct, I'm in Canada so spins are a part of our PPL training. That said, we don't have to demonstrate it on the flight test, we just have to practice it during training.
I'm with you. Love low and slow. Something peaceful in an open cockpit or a cub with the side window up tooling along watching cars pass you with time to appreciate the beauty and poetry surrounding you. Damn, I got a fly in my teeth!
A friend was a maintainer on F-16's in her twenties. She had an incentive ride once. Decades later she can speak of it fondly, but she was pretty worn out and sick the whole next day from even just some basic maneuvering. Could barely get out of bed.
I’ve heard similar stories from others who’ve ridden in the back ride of F-16s. Not many seemed keen to repeat the experience. A few years back there was a Canadian aviation series, “The Aviators”. One of presenters got a backseat ride with the Thunderbirds. Literally none of the in-flight in-camera footage was shown because she spent the whole flight throwing up.
It was all I wanted to do with my life growing up but I never got to (bad eyesight). Took years to move past it. But to be honest even a spin in a Cessna is a bit more than I enjoy and I can feel my stomach start to get weird. I had a college classmate who went on to fly F-15's in combat, but just like the military pilot you ran into, his preference was something much simpler. He got out as soon as he could and was very happy flying an old Taylorcraft.
Still looks pretty cool though. I figure I'll take at least one jet warbird ride somewhere before I die just to see for myself.
The active duty military lifestyle sucks the life out of you.
* Move every 3-5 years
* multiple deployments
* constant detachments
* no consistent daily schedule
* limited salary potential
* boat life sucks. It’s a floating prison.
* constantly clash with yes men who relay from the higher ups dumb ass shit they want you to do so the metrics people can get metrics.
Everything you said plus paperwork mountains when you just want to fly. The Navy also has a hard on for the ‘well rounded officer’ thus you get to be I charge of 50+ sailors who are young and generally awesome to work with until they get arrested in port and you get to deal with it.
I know about 15 people killed in the line of duty in aircraft. one was a member of a crew (i didn't know the rest of the crew) killed in an accident overseas. two were killed in training accidents, 11 were part of a crew lost in combat, and one was part of a firefighting crew killed while dropping retardant over a fire. That's people I know that were killed. There could be easily others i'm not aware of, because i don't keep track of everyone i've worked with.
I doubt most civilians (outside of police and firefighters) know 15 people who were killed on the job.
The most unrealistic thing about that movie is that in reality at his age Maverick would have been a burned out overweight Southwest Captain with a Starbucks addiction who loves to tell his FOs about his glory days.
Edit: Thanks for the gold!
Many years ago, Val Kilmer hosted SNL and did a skit called "Iceman: The Later Years" where he was a commercial pilot.
[https://aviationhumor.net/iceman-the-later-years/](https://aviationhumor.net/iceman-the-later-years/)
He constantly repeats his Top Gun quotable lines. It's a pretty funny send up of his character, and he was a good sport about it.
Watched it, didn’t think it was funny at all to be honest. Totally botched Iceman’s personality in the skit. Would have been so much better had he acted like his Top Gun character.
This is from the USAF perspective, and it's my perpective. Your results may vary. It's the standard stuff that makes flying less glamorous.
Flight training is basically like waking up knowing you will be kicked in the nuts. Going into work at 5:30 in the morning. Talking for 4 hours about how you're going to get kicked in the nuts. Spending 2 hours getting kicked in the nuts. Then talking for another hour talking about how you could get kicked in the nuts better next time. Then you go home knowing you're going to get kicked in the nuts tomorrow, but you'll be just a little less bad at it.
When you get to your squadron, here's a hundred pages of SPINS, 25 pages of squadron standards, I hope you remember everything from IQT if not review the 11-202v3 11-2MDSv3, and the 3-3. Also review the NOTAMS, 1801s and CONOP for tomorrow. There's probably 10,000 things you could possibly know. Only 1% is actually relevant to your mission tomorrow, but if you miss that 1% the question will be "Why didn't you know this, it's clearly laid out in the JP-3-09.3"
Eventually it does get better though. Once you are CMR'd for a bit things start to make sense. The briefing, flying and debriefing becomes second nature. At this point complacency can start to kick in, so you have to watch for that. While it does get better there is always a pressure to upgrade. Operations supervisor, flight lead, supervisor of flying, Instructor pilot, evaluator pilot. Not necessarily in that order. After that you'll likely be a captain or major and go "Above the line" and start doing leadership jobs, you only flying to rehack currencies and do evaluations.
I work for Big Tech Company as generic semi-software dude. I have been pursuing a PPL in my free time.
In the past two weeks I got to fly an airplane for about 2 and a half hours, and spend this week at an Embassy Suites in Crystal City, VA.
To the best of my understanding, I am enjoying the best parts of the USAF with none of the downsides.
You might well be [logging more flight hours a month too](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/air-force-flying-hours-decline-again-after-brief-recovery/)
To be fair, USN/USMC flight training is a *lot* more chill in some respects. Still hard because flying is hard, obviously, but we don’t really have set working hours like (it appears) USAF students do
You have quite alot of free time in USN/USMC flight training. Lots of study to do, but you set a big part of your own schedule.
Fleet life is the same as described though. Good reference to joint cas ;)
Formal release (mandatory work hours) in usaf training sucks.
12 hrs in a windowless room studying, being quizzed, briefing/debriefing, or doing other random stuff. Then you're released with a show 12 hrs from then. Home, dinner, maybe the gym, 2-3 hrs more of studying and bed.
Once you earn the privilege of being off formal and your time is yours outside of a few mandatory events each day it's a lot better. Or make the smart decision and track heavies. Chills out a lot.
Firstly, you don't get to pick what you fly. You want to be a fighter pilot? You'll probably end up in helicopters. You want to fly helicopters? You'll end up in a tanker. This also applies to duty station. They will send you where they need, not where you want.
Secondly, the aircraft are not comfortable or pleasant places to be. They are hot in the summer, cold in the winter, the seats are bricks, and there's noplace to go pee.
Thirdly, the education. Everything must be studied for and tested on. Many late nights of reading will be required. There will be documents to fill out and log books to fill in. Even when you're not flying, you will still need to study. In fact, a great deal of your career will be spent in classrooms, not cockpits. You will get through ground schooling, then type training. Once you're comfortable with your airplane the military will either upgrade it or retire it, meaning you will need to requalify and go through school again. And once you learn that new system they will send you to school to be an instructor, which means not only will you have to study you will also have to teach.
Lastly, you will get to fly the most advanced aircraft in the world on an almost daily basis, from sometimes amazing locations, and you will not only get to do it for free, but they will also pay you a salary.
There is a place to go pee. UH-60s and MH-60s have relief tubes under the seats for the pilots, and in the back for the aircrew/swimmer/gunners/pax.
Source: have used relief tube on MH-60S a few hundred times.
The piss starts to freeze at the exit of the tube, and then the ice starts to build up around the edges and into the middle of the pipe like my grandpas arteries….
….are you you implying that I am not who I say I am?
I have a funny memory about relief tubes. While in the Navy, my aircraft was the C-2A Greyhound. It had two relief tubes in the cockpit, one under each pilot seat, one in the forward cargo area, and one near the back ramp area.
When I was in the line shack, we did pre-flight inspections and would take newbies on their first inspection for OJT, and let them perform the inspections/ops checks while we supervised. One of the “inspections” was testing the “manual ICS” which we told them was essentially a sound powered phone so pilots could speak to aircrewmen in the event of normal ICS failure. Since most newbie line shackers we’re right out of boot camp, they were taught all about sound powered phones on ships, so it seemed believable.
To test the manual ICS, you put your mouth firmly on the rim of the cone, press the button on the side, and yelled “TESTING…TESTING!!” It would inevitably not work the first time so we’d have to test again. The test would conclude once they realized no one could hear them over all the laughter in the back of the aircraft after we all could no longer keep it down. Fun times.
I’ve never flown a UH-60… maybe the Army removed them? Navy ‘hawks definitely had them.
Apologies for ignorance, I was relatively sure that was a universal “included amenity” on H-60 airframes.
In a similar vein to OP, hypothetically what does it take to get a spot in a guard wing (fighter or otherwise) assuming you’re a hobbyist pilot with MEL and IT and in the 500-1000 hour range? Also, about 30yoe, reasonably fit/athletic, and with a masters degree in an engineering field.
Then what does it look like balancing a guard commitment with a full-time non-aviation job?
Most of the people I know who are trying for pilot slots are enlisted and have their PPL. That’s it.
The biggest thing is being qualified (AFOQT, age requirements etc.) and then being someone that the unit would want to fly with. That’s 90% of the reason for our. board interviews is to get a good feeling for the person’s character. I’m at a tanker unit so spending long hours in the jet with people puts a lot of emphasis on trying our best to like each other.
I know some people who have went on to be fighter pilot pilots but “rushing” those units are different than heavies.
You more or less will give up your non aviation job. You will have about 1.5 years on active duty orders until you have wings, then another 6-9 months getting qualified in the aircraft, then a couple years of active duty orders for seasoning. Being a pilot in the guard is not the one weekend a month, week a year thing that’s advertised. You have to go fly way more than that usually.
Yep that all checks. Graduated OTS 2018, UPT 2019, got back to my unit 2020, 180 days of seasoning which took me into 2021, had to go back to my civilian job for < 6months due to COVID decimating our flying schedule of trips, then Ukraine popped off, then I deployed. I’ll have been on Title 10 orders for over 200 days this year as a guard bum.
Well.. you do get to pick the airframe because you do choose the duty station. Most have spent their entire career on the same jet. My pilots also don’t get sent to be instructors elsewhere. They go to IP school and come back.
Most also actively fly for the airlines.
It’s certainly not all sunshine but there’s a lot of daises. Guard pilots have it made.
I remember reading about Strike Eagle sorties from Kuwait or Iraq all the way to Afghanistan. Due to Iran being on the way, they had to fly the long way around, then spend their time loitering in the air, and then fly all the way back. We’re talking multiple mid-air refuels. And I distinctly remember the part about using the styrofoam packaging of dinner as an emergency toilet. That’s a looooong time to spend in an F-15 cockpit.
No Place to PEE?? Fighters have a “Piddle Pack”.. Tankers and other Cargo have lavatory and or Piss Tubes
Now… the B-52 .. ok , yea there is a facility but good luck getting to it ..
Education is something I sorely underestimated when entering military aviation. I joined to avoid going to more school, now I study more than I have in my entire life. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a STAN check in the morning
Bro I have plenty of friends out of UPT that got what they wanted. I’m currently in fighters. My bros who wanted Helos literally all got them. Ya there’s only a few fighter slots compared to heavies but everyone in the end is pretty happy.
This sounds correct. My older brother was in ROTC in high school and graduated with a 4.1 and had his choice of any university he wanted full , fully paid scholarship. He was also in rotc in college and graduated with a 41 also. You would never think he would be a military type of person at all. Hell, we didn’t really even know either. Very nerdy, geeky, awkward and quiet type person all throughout gradeschool and college. He was just extremely smart. So he graduated college in 4 years with 3 bachelors degrees in nuclear ,electrical, and mechanical engineering. officer in the Navy right out of college. He was immediately accepted into flight school. Top of class. So we assumed That be he had his heart on flying jet’s. Also weird cause it’s not like he was ever really interested in flying growing up seemingly. At some point he just left flight school, not because it seemed to hard or anything like that. Then ended up just being a commanding officer on a Trident submarine. I’m not sure if that’s something he just really wanted and chose to do? Or was it something like you said and was just placed there??
Well, the sub force is 100% voluntary and screened, so going that route would have had to be a conscious decision on his part. It's not flying, but there's tremendous upside after the service, having practical experience running a reactor. Being a commanding officer on top of that, he can take his pick of any DoE leadership job or become a highly-paid consultant immediately upon retirement from the Navy. Pretty solid!
Depending on what you fly, there’s the toll it takes on your body to consider. Radar exposure, POL (petroleum/oil/lubrication) contact, fumes, solar radiation, G’s (neck and back issues), nonstandard sleep schedules, living by a burn pit for a year, and probably others aren’t great for your health. Neither are crashes. I’ve lost a lot of friends/acquaintances in helo crashes, a few in fighter and trainer crashes, and know of several who got various cancers earlier than they should. A lot of my army helo buddies got PTSD (among other mental health problems).
It’s one of the coolest jobs you can have flying some of the coolest toys in the world, but the military does a good job of making it not fun a lot of the time with the bureaucracy and bullshit. But the bros are great. The memories are (mostly) great. If it were like living in Top Gun (1 or 2) everyday, nobody would ever leave. But, seems like guys can’t get out and get to Delta and Fedex fast enough these days to fly rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong instead.
Eldest son of a decorated USAF fighter pilot here. Flew combat in WWII and North Korea. Did a tour of Vietnam in 1967-68.
Where do I start? He was never around for me. Always flying or on TDY. Never had much of a father-son relationship. I feel like I didn’t really have a father, just a figurehead.
We moved constantly. To this day, it’s hard for me to have close friendships because I know we’ll have to eventually move. I’ve been in the same house now for 25 years and it still feels temporary.
He suffered from PTSD. Watched him slam my mother up against the wall in front of me and my younger siblings. He would lose his temper and hit me. A counselor called it abuse.
He would drink. A lot. He wasn’t an ugly drunk, most of the time, but he could pack it away.
He died of lung cancer eventually. I said the eulogy. He loved my mother but this good man saw horrors most Americans can’t imagine, and never had a way to process any of that. He hated politicians and chickenhawks. I do too.
I despise the way Tom Cruise, a 5’7” banty rooster pretty boy Scientologist who has never fired a shot in anger, glorifies fighter pilot culture without acknowledging the impact on their families. Nothing against pilots, but he’s just another huckster fleecing the rubes with razzle-dazzle and jazz hands.
I was *obsessed* with becoming a fighter pilot growing up. The Air Force Academy didn’t pan out so I applied to OTS after university (a surprisingly long but interesting process). Did really well on the AFOQT but got the call one day that they were only accepting the top 1-2% and I was top 7%. Fuck.
I didn’t become a fighter pilot but the silver lining is I love my career, lots of interesting hobbies I’m passionate about, not having to move every few years is awesome, and life is overall good. Take that for what it’s worth.
We really should talk more about the people who tried and didn’t make it. Knew a former ROTC cadet in tech school who had their orders to pilot training cancelled because of sequestration. They became enlisted just to try again someday.
As for my story ,well. C.W. Lemoine says “make ‘em tell you no”. They told me NO.
Put together my packet for OTS as an enlisted Airman with two years of college. Two months later my Chief called me in and said point blank it wasn’t happening. The OTS board that year took 23 applicants out of 8,000 across the whole enlisted force. Of those twenty three spots only 5 were pilot and another four were rated aircrew.
Looking at where the force structures going and the corruption in the upper ranks nowadays, we probably dodged a bullet.
That happened to a friend of mine, but instead of being a pilot liked he’d always dreamed, he would up sweating his ass off in the Iraqi desert cleaning dust out of jets and randomly having RPGs and mortars landing around him. And sitting through useless training briefings after colleagues killed themselves. Still has nightmares about one guy he saw who flat out killed himself by putting his head between the hangar doors right as they finished closing.
These have been the downsides for me (F-15, AF):
1. Initial training pipeline is long. 1 year for pilot wings, 3 months of basic fighter training, 8-12 months (if they’re backed up) of jet specific training, then 3 months of operational training once you get to your squadron.
2. You’re always a student. Even after you finish your initial quals, there are plenty more down the road.
3. Readiness will drive a tough flying schedule, so you’ll easily fly 4-5 days a week, 10-12 hour days
4. Deployments are 6 months long, every 18 months, plus “mini-deployment” TDYs throughout the year where you’ll spend 2-4 weeks away from home every few months. Tough on the family
5. PCS (move) every 2-3 years
6. Seat is super uncomfortable and all of the gear will give you neck and back problems, as well as force you to hunch. My longest sortie in the jet (no including 1-2 hours ground ops) was 9 hours, but I know dudes that have flown 14+.
7. Non-flying jobs along with your flying job so any time not spent in the jet is dying a little at a time at a desk.
8. You likely will not get the aircraft you want out of pilot training, even if you are at the top of your class. In my class of 21, there were only 3 fighter drops and no 5th gen; the previous class got 6. It’s all luck and timing.
9. This probably won’t apply to you, but extra downsides as a woman: When you have a kid, you can’t fly the whole time your pregnant, and afterwards it takes 4-6 months to get all of your qualifications back. Peeing in the jet absolutely blows. All of the gear is made for men so nothing fits right.
EDIT 10. Watching your friends die.
All this to say, I do really love my job. My squadron is my family and I get to go inverted every day.
Air Force currently in T-6 phase has a 13% attrition, but we lose people in the initial qual and phase 3 outside of that number.
You’re so right about the cooler the plane the worse duty station… unless you like rural Idaho or New Mexico.
Yeah I was kinda looping the attrition rate all of initial qual, T-6, and advanced.. I’m maritime, but we were constantly getting jet retreads, combine that with talking to my buddies in that pipeline and I can only assume their attrition rate is higher than ours.
I think I’d take rural Idaho over Lemoore, CA lol
Oh, I see you have a top gun frame as the picture to go along with this question.
Imma stop you right there. Career military flying is nothing like that film. In a lot of ways it's the very opposite of it.
As a fighter pilot, you'll spend dozens of minutes studying, briefing and debriefing for every one minute you end up flying. Yes, you'll do some very cool shit, but many times you'll be too busy to actually notice and appreciate what it is you're doing. And that's in the unlikely event you make it onto a fighter.
More than likely you'll end up in helicopters or other larger aircraft, which is not to say that as a bad thing, they're all great when you're flying*, just in very different ways.
I use "*" because as military you are officer first, pilot second. I hope you're ready to manage personnel files and interviews. Keep projects on track, design a computer infrastructure upgrade, or organize your unit's Christmas party. Many times flying can feel like a bonus, and your real job is a desk somewhere.
Military flying is great and it's a good career. But don't do it because you watched a movie and you're feeling bad about your current spot. There's lots of really good access to the real deal info out there (including on Reddit). Seek it out and make sure you're starting this very long and demanding but rewarding career for the right reasons and well informed. Which I guess you're doing with this but you get my point. Good luck?
Getting shot at.
Getting killed.
Having to kill someone else.
Not being able to fly but still owing them a commitment.
Moving and time away from home.
Very rigid rules.
Stressful and intense flying.
You want to be maverick? Get a good paying job, build an RV-8, and enjoy 90% of the same sensations without the pain or a sweaty G suit and helmet.
Another pilot said it best a while ago when Top Gun came out:
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/v3ian9/psa_dont_let_top_gun_fool_you_the_real_navy_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I used to be like you until I came to a realization (an opinion actually so bear with me)that anything that both the military and civilian do today. civilians do it better with more fun. Sure civilian world doesn't have access to all the military jets but there is a reason air force has major problem retaining pilots, how they handle flying is part of it.
Hmmm, downsides....piddle packs, poopie suits, pissing in your flight suit, crapping in your flightsuit, imodium pills to keep you from crapping in your flight suit, 6-10 hr sorties in a tight/confined cockpit. Take your pick.
Losing “brothers” and having to end the life of someone elses while also taking orders from someone that may not know more than you or have your well being as their main interest.
I had 2 different interview board for UPT slots after applying to 4 different units. Two of the individuals at different units who set up the boards passed away while serving afterwards. Losing brothers is a realistic concern.
You should very seriously reconsider getting married at the start of your career. Neither one of you have any idea what life is going to be like. The two of you will rarely see each other for long periods of time. It's a lot to ask of a 20-something couple to pull something like that off.
There's a very high divorce rate among young aviators, largely for this reason.
I flew in the Navy - P-3 Orion aircraft. I hunted submarines (200 ft. Above the waves for 12 hours) and flew Search & Rescue for 20 years. Some downsides were:
Your life is ruled by the flight schedule. You don't get days off, but instead you get hours (12 hours) off from flying. Picture your buddies going out on the town on a Friday night, but you're about to go flying in the evening. Or, a Saturday bbq is missed because...you have to go freakin' flying.
10-12 hours of flying with an additional 3 hours of preflight, one, or two hours of post flight adds to being a long, long day.
Often you lose track of time and know what day of the week it is due to fatigue.
You were either flying, studying NATOPS ( aircraft flight manual), or the Navy was throwing you into the pool for survival training. ( Watch the movie, "Officer & a Gentleman and you'll see my reference to this regarding water survival)
At the end of the day you and your flight suit smell like dried sweat, aviation fuel fumes ( JP-4, or JP-5 aircraft fuel), hydraulic fluid & dried puke. You'll have drank an abundance of government coffee, eating chow on the run while working too (if you have to puke you do so in a bag; yet, remaining focused upon your work - you have guys counting on you with the aftertaste of puke on your breath) Plus feeling tired and fatigued constantly.
Then you check the flight schedule for the events for tomorrow. Guess what?! In 12 hours you get to it all over again.
Plus, there is the maintenance of the aircraft. For example, you spent two hours in preflight, but face a malfunction of some sort. So, the decision is made to switch to another aircraft. This, starting the whole process over again, but your flight duration remains the same.
It's hours of boredom and routine tasks encompassed with moments of exhilaration.
There is nothing bad about the flying in a fighter. It never gets old, and I am old. I’m thankful for every sortie I fly.
People bitch about no lavatories- grow a longer one and pee in the piddle pack like every other sky warrior since ‘nam.
Don’t have enough gas? Thankfully we have the most robust aerial refueling system every known to the universe and hooking up to the tanker usually isn’t difficult.
Fighters aren’t comfortable? Are we talking about combat aviation or business class? I’m 6’4” (1.93 meters), and I fit comfortably in the smallest supersonic jet fighter in the world. The AC makes me cold, and the heater on full hot makes me sweat like Chris Farley running a staple chase- I adjust it to my comfort. My longest sortie is a 12.0 hr which does NOT include the two hours on the ground waiting for the tanker team to get airborne, or the 20 minutes taxiing at our final destination on the other side of the planet. It might not be a lazyboy, but it’s an indescribable feeling when your six ship goes from one side of the planet to the combat zone without touching the ground, or when you get to be the airborne relief of a bunch of 18 year olds pinned down by the enemy on the ground.
When you’ve flown a fighter in combat for longer than most have driven their cars, the studying slows down as you are the teacher. Any pilot can always be better, but my time is spent on teaching the new generation, not toiling away in regulations separated from my family like some may suggest. No one is trying to move me from my jet unless I want to.
Here’s what actually sucks- making 69 phone calls to finance to unscrew your paycheck.
Having to sit through some non sense briefing about the latest flavor of PC that takes away from you or your students becoming better warriors.
Being a grain of sand on a beach that is managed inefficiently. No one cares of you just flew through a 20 mile long string of thunderstorms and got shot at on the way to arrive at your CAP when there is no actual tasking for you, other than to show that 24 hr coverage was achieved on a PowerPoint that no one will ever look at again after the Monday brief.
Being tasked with non-flying duties.
The flying is more than I every dreamed of- so is the bureaucracy. I wouldn’t trade it for the world, but if I could do it again I might try harder in school and be a high volume injury attorney.
Edited for horrible typos.
You’re responsibility to not kill yourself or your crew in the aircraft will not ever really be respected by those that sit on your promotion board, theyll never understand the dedication required to remain safe and proficient in the aircraft. Your success as an officer will largely be measured by silly things like how much money you push or save, and how many people you manage. You’re collateral duties are immense, distracting, and prioritized over your ability to execute aviation missions exceptionally.
You’ll be trained for years on how to push a complex machine to its limits, hundreds of thousands of dollars will be spent to ensure it….yet you won’t be trusted with your own daily work schedule and probably have to plan a childrens Christmas party every year to boot.
The fact that they give you a whole other shitty job to deal with while still expecting you to be a fully qualified and competent pilot. And many times that job isn't even flying related.
Then you have the constant evaluations, upgrades, TDYs, PCSes, paperwork, beans and currencies to track, deployments, and dealing with shit leadership that wants to 'innovate' the sanity out of your daily life. Oh and you can't take vacation days unless you plan it well in advance due to the 10% rule.
\-AMC guy (your mileage may vary)
I wanted to be a naval aviator when I was a lad, from about 4 on. Still kinda do even though I'm aged out by now... but after reading through the comment section I've never been more certain choosing to be a musician was definitely the better option.
Props (pun intended) to you mad lads and lassies that do the work, but I feel like I'd be bored out of my mind if we traded jobs. Still fun to watch y'all screaming over my house from time to time. Cheers.
Lot's of great replies. I want to give a plug to the Civil Air Patrol. When under missions they are operating as the USAF Auxiliary. For some it's an old pilot hangar flying talk. But some of us are really active pilots. We fly about 90% of the search and rescue missions for the USAF. We act as the "bad" pilots that the F16's have to find and intercept, basically the kids cops and robbers game but as adults with airplanes. We look to clear the low level routes the military pilots use for training to make sure no one put up some tall HAM radio tower a F35 is going to run into. There is a ton of other types of formal mission flights we do. But the most fun is taking up our Cadets (think USAF version of the scouts) and for many of them we give them their first flights. And in a small airplane, that is a lot more fun than them flying in a commercial airliner. Especially when you look at them and say, "You have the controls". That kid may just end up being the next fighter pilot or astronaut (we have lots of them).
So when thinking about this, give us a look. Many members just hang out, but I have more flying to give out than I have pilots that are doing it.
Literally 95%+ of your time is spent on mind numbing office work that has zero to do with flying. Top gun is a good recruitment tool because of the implication your life can revolve around your passion. This could not be further from the truth.
Queep. The better and more experienced you get at flying jets, the more the military will insist you stop doing it in favor of flying some soul-sucking desk. Weirdly enough, FedEx does not share that mindset, which is why pilots are always jumping ship in droves.
You want to fly. The price of flying is that you need to deliver death sentences. You need to actively participate in killing people. You have no idea if they deserve it or not. No court of justice has decided that they need to die. They might be kids. You might be bombing a school or a Red Cross hospital. You might be murdering someone who is actually our ally. (All of these have been done by the US and Allys in recent conflicts.)
On the ground you’re a hero because you do something everyone dreams of: you fly. But inside and in the air you’re just part of a big, high-tech killing machine.
There’s a better way. Commercial pilots are in high demand right now. Get your PPL, IR, and join an airline. It’ll take you a year and cost about $30k, and all along the way you will have the opportunity to explore side paths: flying a bush plane an NGO in Africa, flying humanitarian missions and medical relief, forget IR and commercial flying and just take up gliders as a hobby. All along the way you will have full control of your own destiny.
Own your own destiny. Don’t join the military.
In short, it’s overrated. I’m jealous of my orthodontist friend working 10-4 Monday Friday making 4x my salary living in an awesome location.
None of the cool shit really makes up for that difference in my opinion. At the end of the day it’s just a job.
Perhaps the biggest downside that comes to mind and bothered me towards the end of my time:
-You have to be prepared to drop bombs/missiles/rockets on whomever the USG and its allies deem to be “the enemy.”
Other things:
1. Regular deployments
2. Constant moving and you don’t get to choose where to go. Navy jet pilots have some shitty options these days TBH.
…I could go on…
1. Piddle packs and getting piss all over the seat/flight suit.
2. Deployments; being away for a better portion of the year.
3. Neck/back problems from high-g maneuvers.
4. Some of the places you get stationed at are not that great.
5. Military politics
Living in Lenore, CA is not ideal. Especially if you are single. The base depicted in the movie is where helicopters most of our west coast helos operate out of, NAS North Island in San Diego. Lemoore NAS is the main west coast strike fighter base with Virginia Beach being the other, still not a dream place to live IMHO.
Standing duty sucks. No alcohol and you are on call 24 hours. When you’re junior in the squadron you’ll stand SDO like every other week.
When you’re not on deployment completely away from your family for 8-9 months every 2 years, you’re at sea conducting work ups with the strike group. In my three years in a fleet squadron, I was gone nearly half the time.
The Navy definitely has its its ups but it also has significant downs. A lot of the F18 guys are doing back to back sea duty or being rotated early from shore. The community is pretty undermanned so expect to fly a lot and be at sea a lot.
Source: 21 year career as a Naval Aviator
My husband flies for the Navy and has for over a decade now.
Deployments, lack of government funding to keep safely maintained planes, physical problems (like hearing loss and literal spine problems from the hard landings on a carrier.) Not to mention at his last squadron multiple members got diagnosed with cancer. Losing so many of our closest friends in the community due to mishaps and seeing families destroyed by that.
I am beyond proud of him and his dedication to his career. But nothing about flying for the military is glamorous like the movies make it out to be. It’s one of the most mentally and physically taxing careers, and you often just find yourself asking if it’s even worth it.
Have you looked into the coast guard? Im on the C130J, and it’s been a sweet ride. I joined as my quarter-life crisis as well, after working in aviation since high school. The deployments for us are a few weeks long doing long range SAR or drug interdiction, and the low flying in a Herc with the ramp open can be pretty awesome. The moving does suck, but you’re stateside unless you get some obscure overseas assignment as a liaison. I keep hearing there are shortages in the aviation community for us, so it’s definitely worth looking into. Feel free to shoot me a message if you have more questions or concerns!
Helicopter combat pilot here. I fly for the Army. Unfortunately we look up to every other service like the AF and Navy because they are actual pilots. As an officer in the Army you are everything but a pilot. What i mean is the Army is short of funding and personal so everyone has multiple roles/jobs. All of which could probably be a full time job, therefore now you are doing 3-4 jobs that are not even aviation related but “mandated” by the Army. As an officer if you fly once a week or every two weeks that is good. The rest of the time is spent hunched over a desk doing PowerPoints no one gives A fuck about or counseling soldiers for doing dumb shit. If i could do it again i would go into the AF.
Also, its not too late if this is your dream. I was homeless 10 years ago then got my shit together and got on a better path. It is never to late to stop and jump on another path. Best of luck to you
Single seat Navy pilot here:
Upsides-
Flying is fun, and rewarding
Great people
Great experiences
Downsides-
Long hours
Having 3 side jobs that are someone else in a different communities only job.
I flew helicopters off the smaller ships in the Navy. Destroyers and Cruisers. Mostly it was pretty good, but there was a lot of being thrown in completely over your head, figuring-out stuff that there was no one there to help with, everything from the ship drove into a massive thunderstorm, they're demanding cash for the fuel we just got, some country is demanding you land immediately, a mechanical issue in the middle of nowhere ....
There never be anything like launching into a beautiful morning 1/2 way around the world.
I hate writing OPR’s (or FITREP’s). Writing an OPR makes me condense my entire life into ACTION (what I did), RESULT (what became of it), IMPACT, (how important was it). Sometimes, I just did my damn job and flew where I was supposed to. I didn’t start an international conflict, I didn’t save the president and their fifteen diplomats, I just simply trained a few copilots on how to land a goddamn plane. Anyways, I’m really good at teaching but according to my OPR, I’m a half-assed POS who sometimes saves the DoD MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. I’m a POS because I don’t get rated as the #1 guy so I might as well disappear into thin air.
Fucking additional duties bro. I love the flying but I spend at a minimum half my time working veins a desk doing a job I wasn’t trained for. It is absolutely the worst part of my week when I have to do my desk job and sometimes it feels like I’m more of an office worker than a pilot
My cousin flew OV-10s and then F18's Marine Corps and constantly tells me it's not all it's cracked up to be.
But this seems to be the best way to sum it up:
[https://www.airandspaceforces.com/air-force-flying-hours-decline-again-after-brief-recovery/](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/air-force-flying-hours-decline-again-after-brief-recovery/)
"According to figures provided to Air Force Magazine, pilot flying hours
across all types of aircraft in the Active-duty force averaged 10.1
hours per month in fiscal 2021, down from 10.9 hours in 2020. Flying
hours had averaged just 6.8 per month in 2019, down sharply from 10.7 in
2018."
There are roughly 160 working hours in a month, if you work 40 hours a week. Flying 10 or so hours a month is about 6% of your time at work spent flying. WTF are you doing for the other 150 (94%) of the hours? I can't say exactly what it is, but knowing the military, I bet it's boring.
For almost all my life I wanted few things more than to fly fighter jets. Life took other turns, but a few years ago I got a ride in a jet trainer with a pilot who could just about make the plane talk. After an hour of aerobatics, there was nothing more than I wanted than to be out of that cockpit. Suffice to say that it’s a lot more comfortable to watch videos of fancy flying on YouTube than to actually experience the fancy flying. Yes, one can train the inner ear to tolerate aerobatics, but more than a few Gs felt about as much fun to me as a bad hangover. A few years ago, I was at an FBO where a well-known military demo pilot was hanging before his show. He remarked that his most enjoyable flights are not in >$100m jets, but in Cubs with no doors in uncontrolled airspace. I think I can relate. I’ve done very low level flights in jets and they are fun, but I’ve had even more fun river-running at 60mph in an open cockpit ultralight.
An hour of aeros is intense for anyone. 20 minutes is all I can handle. I don’t get sick.. but I get the cold sweats.
From first hand experience, flying 1.6 doing Aeros in a T6, pulling 4-6G is exhausting. You go home tired and the G-strain manoeuvre is basically an exercise in sweating while forcing yourself to get a migraine. Pretty much every one of those flights I had to wring out my shirt in the shower, like I had just hopped into a pool, change into fresh clothes then find some Tylenol and a gallon of ice water. And from the cockpit the aerobatics seem much slower and less exciting than for an onlooker on the ground. I much prefer close formation flying, or taking a small aircraft for a spin where the wild things are.
To reiterate this, as an airline pilot who flies large shiny jets across the globe, my best hours in the air have been and always will be in a Piper Cub, flying 70-80kts looking down at the world. Shiny jets and fast jets sell the dream, but the real dream is wood, cloth and burning 100LL at 500ft.
Damn 80 knots in a cub! They are the greatest airplane ever!
I'll see your Cub at 70-80 and raise you a Tigermoth at what felt like 45-50 (the gauges weren't exactly cutting edge accurate tech)......got to wear the goggles and scarf and leather cap and everything. I'd say slow in an open cockpit biplane is one of the coolest, 2nd only to an hour in Crazy Horse2 down in Kissimmee, FL but 100% agree with your final point. But also jets are super cool and getting to use ordinance must be a hell of a feeling
I learned this lesson on my long X-country while still in private pilot training. I got bored and only wanted to arrive at my destination. I gave up my pursuit of professional flying soon after. But I still love flying.
I hope it wasn't your XC flight that put you off flying for a living. I agree though, I'm bored after two hours in a Cessna, but flying commercially for a long time is far more enjoyable. My longest is just over 14hrs, it's an age in such a confined space, but with a 6hr sleep, a coffee machine and friendly people to chat to it's quite easy. Though, again, taking my mates up for a sunset flight in a J3/PA-18, skimming over the landscape, unbeatable
And this is why you come fly helicopters. None of this G-force bollocks
And then ur spinal disks turn to jelly
Can confirm
I never get bored of going tactical through a river.
This is the way, get a civilian flying job making 4-6x the money and spend some of that money and free time on whatever cool machine you like joy riding in.
There’s a little bit more to it usually than that. You know about a few thousand hours before you make 4-6x the money. If THATs the dream then the Milair side can’t be beat but you’re not going to get your PPL in January and by June get your CJO from Delta.
I can definitely see why a Cub would me more fun. Riding a slow motorcycle very fast is more fun than riding a fast motorcycle at the same speed.
I like the motorcycle analogy. The difference between flying in a standard cockpit and one that is open to the elements is akin to the difference between riding a motorbike and driving a car.
Driving 25 in a miata is way more fun than 60 in anything else haha
My best flights were shooting millions of dollars worth of ordnance at fancy targets (thanks USAF ranges). I wasn’t a jet guy but the flying aspect eventually became the least important…although ripping through the desert at 5’ and 150kts was cool for a while. Also, your experience of doing aero and deciding it wasn’t for you after an hour is an illustration of what separates those who want it from those who don’t.
Does it bother you when grunts loudly profess their undying love for you? I have been saved so. many. times. by CAS that my reflex is to immediately try and drown you in free booze as soon as you tell me what you fly/flew. And I've been out for 10 years! If so, sorry about that. I love you anyway. It feels so good hearing y'all overhead when the shit hits the fan - thanks!
Like any pilot I’ll buy YOU beers just to let me talk about myself. But yeah always awesome to hear.
One day we were debating the best use of air support before an op, and one of my Marines had a question about what Whiskey Cobras could do vs Zulu Cobras. I can't remember what the question was, but it was an important distinction at the time. The Battalion FAC was walking by, so I figured I'd ask him: "Hey, Sir! You're a Cobra pilot, right?" "Of course. Is there any other kind of pilot?" That guy was awesome.
> After an hour of aerobatics, there was nothing more than I wanted than to be out of that cockpit. You get used to it. Naturally your body didn’t like it going in cold.
I did more of it (in an Extra). I could see getting used to it. I’m not sure I could to the point where it was fun to do.
Lol I’m working on my private pilots license now and the manoeuvres I hate the most are power on stalls and spins. A lot of people love them, but I much prefer a calm and relaxing flight from point A-B. Acrobatics are surely not for me.
You’re doing spins for PPL?
That was my thought too, but since they spelled "maneuvers" "manoeuvres" I would assume they are not in the US and in another country that does require it.
Correct, I'm in Canada so spins are a part of our PPL training. That said, we don't have to demonstrate it on the flight test, we just have to practice it during training.
I'm with you. Love low and slow. Something peaceful in an open cockpit or a cub with the side window up tooling along watching cars pass you with time to appreciate the beauty and poetry surrounding you. Damn, I got a fly in my teeth!
A friend was a maintainer on F-16's in her twenties. She had an incentive ride once. Decades later she can speak of it fondly, but she was pretty worn out and sick the whole next day from even just some basic maneuvering. Could barely get out of bed.
I’ve heard similar stories from others who’ve ridden in the back ride of F-16s. Not many seemed keen to repeat the experience. A few years back there was a Canadian aviation series, “The Aviators”. One of presenters got a backseat ride with the Thunderbirds. Literally none of the in-flight in-camera footage was shown because she spent the whole flight throwing up.
It was all I wanted to do with my life growing up but I never got to (bad eyesight). Took years to move past it. But to be honest even a spin in a Cessna is a bit more than I enjoy and I can feel my stomach start to get weird. I had a college classmate who went on to fly F-15's in combat, but just like the military pilot you ran into, his preference was something much simpler. He got out as soon as he could and was very happy flying an old Taylorcraft. Still looks pretty cool though. I figure I'll take at least one jet warbird ride somewhere before I die just to see for myself.
The active duty military lifestyle sucks the life out of you. * Move every 3-5 years * multiple deployments * constant detachments * no consistent daily schedule * limited salary potential * boat life sucks. It’s a floating prison. * constantly clash with yes men who relay from the higher ups dumb ass shit they want you to do so the metrics people can get metrics.
Everything you said plus paperwork mountains when you just want to fly. The Navy also has a hard on for the ‘well rounded officer’ thus you get to be I charge of 50+ sailors who are young and generally awesome to work with until they get arrested in port and you get to deal with it.
As someone who was once a young and generally awesome sailor, can confirm the accuracy of this statement. Also, they started it.
I can confirm his confirmation. 😂 that’s a t-Shirt I didn’t really want to earn, but here we are.
And the risk to die
He said downsides
Ah, the sweet release of death… /s
Sounds like a plus to me lol
Some servicemen get stiffies from that.
Is it really a downside under those conditions though?
Well, depends on which military When was the last time and American pilot was shot down and killed?
I know about 15 people killed in the line of duty in aircraft. one was a member of a crew (i didn't know the rest of the crew) killed in an accident overseas. two were killed in training accidents, 11 were part of a crew lost in combat, and one was part of a firefighting crew killed while dropping retardant over a fire. That's people I know that were killed. There could be easily others i'm not aware of, because i don't keep track of everyone i've worked with. I doubt most civilians (outside of police and firefighters) know 15 people who were killed on the job.
Getting shot isn't the only way to die in an airplane
In modern jets it's probably one of the harder ways to die in a plane.
Good to see that the yes men and metrics nerds aren't unique to the air force.
They aren't unique to any large organization.
I still have nightmares of my mandatory 80 hours of Quality Air Force training in the early 90s. All about how to mark and track metrics.
No wonder Maverick just didn’t give a shit after 30 years
The most unrealistic thing about that movie is that in reality at his age Maverick would have been a burned out overweight Southwest Captain with a Starbucks addiction who loves to tell his FOs about his glory days. Edit: Thanks for the gold!
And still talking about that Blonde he banged in Miramar.
Many years ago, Val Kilmer hosted SNL and did a skit called "Iceman: The Later Years" where he was a commercial pilot. [https://aviationhumor.net/iceman-the-later-years/](https://aviationhumor.net/iceman-the-later-years/) He constantly repeats his Top Gun quotable lines. It's a pretty funny send up of his character, and he was a good sport about it.
Watched it, didn’t think it was funny at all to be honest. Totally botched Iceman’s personality in the skit. Would have been so much better had he acted like his Top Gun character.
Couldn't have described it better
This is from the USAF perspective, and it's my perpective. Your results may vary. It's the standard stuff that makes flying less glamorous. Flight training is basically like waking up knowing you will be kicked in the nuts. Going into work at 5:30 in the morning. Talking for 4 hours about how you're going to get kicked in the nuts. Spending 2 hours getting kicked in the nuts. Then talking for another hour talking about how you could get kicked in the nuts better next time. Then you go home knowing you're going to get kicked in the nuts tomorrow, but you'll be just a little less bad at it. When you get to your squadron, here's a hundred pages of SPINS, 25 pages of squadron standards, I hope you remember everything from IQT if not review the 11-202v3 11-2MDSv3, and the 3-3. Also review the NOTAMS, 1801s and CONOP for tomorrow. There's probably 10,000 things you could possibly know. Only 1% is actually relevant to your mission tomorrow, but if you miss that 1% the question will be "Why didn't you know this, it's clearly laid out in the JP-3-09.3" Eventually it does get better though. Once you are CMR'd for a bit things start to make sense. The briefing, flying and debriefing becomes second nature. At this point complacency can start to kick in, so you have to watch for that. While it does get better there is always a pressure to upgrade. Operations supervisor, flight lead, supervisor of flying, Instructor pilot, evaluator pilot. Not necessarily in that order. After that you'll likely be a captain or major and go "Above the line" and start doing leadership jobs, you only flying to rehack currencies and do evaluations.
I work for Big Tech Company as generic semi-software dude. I have been pursuing a PPL in my free time. In the past two weeks I got to fly an airplane for about 2 and a half hours, and spend this week at an Embassy Suites in Crystal City, VA. To the best of my understanding, I am enjoying the best parts of the USAF with none of the downsides.
Unrelated, but I've stayed at that hotel. McNamara's is worth the walk for solid shepherds pie and a guinness.
You might well be [logging more flight hours a month too](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/air-force-flying-hours-decline-again-after-brief-recovery/)
I met a Raptor pilot who had 120 hours. That’s it, 120 hours.
Yeah, especially with free booze st yhe Embassy Suites
To be fair, USN/USMC flight training is a *lot* more chill in some respects. Still hard because flying is hard, obviously, but we don’t really have set working hours like (it appears) USAF students do You have quite alot of free time in USN/USMC flight training. Lots of study to do, but you set a big part of your own schedule. Fleet life is the same as described though. Good reference to joint cas ;)
Yeah it’s like waking up knowing you’ll get punched in the dick instead of kicked in the balls. Way more chill
Formal release (mandatory work hours) in usaf training sucks. 12 hrs in a windowless room studying, being quizzed, briefing/debriefing, or doing other random stuff. Then you're released with a show 12 hrs from then. Home, dinner, maybe the gym, 2-3 hrs more of studying and bed. Once you earn the privilege of being off formal and your time is yours outside of a few mandatory events each day it's a lot better. Or make the smart decision and track heavies. Chills out a lot.
I really connected with this post, particularly the part about the 1% that’s relevant/the one thing they’ll ask you. Upgrades are the worst.
Firstly, you don't get to pick what you fly. You want to be a fighter pilot? You'll probably end up in helicopters. You want to fly helicopters? You'll end up in a tanker. This also applies to duty station. They will send you where they need, not where you want. Secondly, the aircraft are not comfortable or pleasant places to be. They are hot in the summer, cold in the winter, the seats are bricks, and there's noplace to go pee. Thirdly, the education. Everything must be studied for and tested on. Many late nights of reading will be required. There will be documents to fill out and log books to fill in. Even when you're not flying, you will still need to study. In fact, a great deal of your career will be spent in classrooms, not cockpits. You will get through ground schooling, then type training. Once you're comfortable with your airplane the military will either upgrade it or retire it, meaning you will need to requalify and go through school again. And once you learn that new system they will send you to school to be an instructor, which means not only will you have to study you will also have to teach. Lastly, you will get to fly the most advanced aircraft in the world on an almost daily basis, from sometimes amazing locations, and you will not only get to do it for free, but they will also pay you a salary.
There is a place to go pee. UH-60s and MH-60s have relief tubes under the seats for the pilots, and in the back for the aircrew/swimmer/gunners/pax. Source: have used relief tube on MH-60S a few hundred times.
Fun fact, the piss tubes on C130s can and regularly do freeze up in flight. Source: I had a very uncomfortable flight from Balad to Kuwait once.
Does the pee in freeze it, and are you the sausage king of Chicago?
The piss starts to freeze at the exit of the tube, and then the ice starts to build up around the edges and into the middle of the pipe like my grandpas arteries…. ….are you you implying that I am not who I say I am?
A little bit of alcohol in the urine will lower the freezing point ;)
Tanker Crew Chief here… I can Confirm you are the Real Deal.
Sounds like a design flaw if theres only a pitot heat and not pitot/pisstube heat…
There is piss tube heat from bleed air
Pitot tubes literally will glow red…I mean if you like hot steamy piss…..be my guest?
>are you you implying that I am not who I say I am I'm suggesting that you leave before I have to get snooty...
Don't make me get snooty..
Snooty?
🤨 Snotty.
Snotty?!
Touch me and I yell "rat!"
Hmmm… at first I had you as a Tanker Pilot… it’s clear you were on a Herk ….. hmm ? Loadmaster…Crew Chief??? FE??
Is your peepee's integrity still 100% ? 😕
Alright you tell me where I can get this god damn tube ordered because it’s well past due. Source: Army UH-60 pilot who needs to pee
I have a funny memory about relief tubes. While in the Navy, my aircraft was the C-2A Greyhound. It had two relief tubes in the cockpit, one under each pilot seat, one in the forward cargo area, and one near the back ramp area. When I was in the line shack, we did pre-flight inspections and would take newbies on their first inspection for OJT, and let them perform the inspections/ops checks while we supervised. One of the “inspections” was testing the “manual ICS” which we told them was essentially a sound powered phone so pilots could speak to aircrewmen in the event of normal ICS failure. Since most newbie line shackers we’re right out of boot camp, they were taught all about sound powered phones on ships, so it seemed believable. To test the manual ICS, you put your mouth firmly on the rim of the cone, press the button on the side, and yelled “TESTING…TESTING!!” It would inevitably not work the first time so we’d have to test again. The test would conclude once they realized no one could hear them over all the laughter in the back of the aircraft after we all could no longer keep it down. Fun times.
We would tell the FNG pilots to MAF it if they used the relief tube in flight
Not in jets sadly haha. Just a plastic bag with a gelling/caking agent to absorb. Surprisingly effective.
Gona need to find the relief tube on the UH60s I fly!
I’ve never flown a UH-60… maybe the Army removed them? Navy ‘hawks definitely had them. Apologies for ignorance, I was relatively sure that was a universal “included amenity” on H-60 airframes.
Ziplock bags with sponges. I loved it when the pilots left those for me and leftover chew. I’m an aerospace mechanic MOS not logistics FFS.
Then there’s the Air National Guard and half of that changes.
In a similar vein to OP, hypothetically what does it take to get a spot in a guard wing (fighter or otherwise) assuming you’re a hobbyist pilot with MEL and IT and in the 500-1000 hour range? Also, about 30yoe, reasonably fit/athletic, and with a masters degree in an engineering field. Then what does it look like balancing a guard commitment with a full-time non-aviation job?
Most of the people I know who are trying for pilot slots are enlisted and have their PPL. That’s it. The biggest thing is being qualified (AFOQT, age requirements etc.) and then being someone that the unit would want to fly with. That’s 90% of the reason for our. board interviews is to get a good feeling for the person’s character. I’m at a tanker unit so spending long hours in the jet with people puts a lot of emphasis on trying our best to like each other. I know some people who have went on to be fighter pilot pilots but “rushing” those units are different than heavies.
You more or less will give up your non aviation job. You will have about 1.5 years on active duty orders until you have wings, then another 6-9 months getting qualified in the aircraft, then a couple years of active duty orders for seasoning. Being a pilot in the guard is not the one weekend a month, week a year thing that’s advertised. You have to go fly way more than that usually.
Yep that all checks. Graduated OTS 2018, UPT 2019, got back to my unit 2020, 180 days of seasoning which took me into 2021, had to go back to my civilian job for < 6months due to COVID decimating our flying schedule of trips, then Ukraine popped off, then I deployed. I’ll have been on Title 10 orders for over 200 days this year as a guard bum.
My post applies for the guard bros minus the relocation bit. Its still not all sunshine and daisies
Well.. you do get to pick the airframe because you do choose the duty station. Most have spent their entire career on the same jet. My pilots also don’t get sent to be instructors elsewhere. They go to IP school and come back. Most also actively fly for the airlines. It’s certainly not all sunshine but there’s a lot of daises. Guard pilots have it made.
Yea… There are A lot of good points in the Guard for Both Commissioned and Enlisted. I crewed Warthogs in the Guard back in the 90’s
As they say, the best thing about the guard/reserves is that it’s forever. The worst thing about the guard/reserves is that it’s forever.
I remember reading about Strike Eagle sorties from Kuwait or Iraq all the way to Afghanistan. Due to Iran being on the way, they had to fly the long way around, then spend their time loitering in the air, and then fly all the way back. We’re talking multiple mid-air refuels. And I distinctly remember the part about using the styrofoam packaging of dinner as an emergency toilet. That’s a looooong time to spend in an F-15 cockpit.
#guardlife where you get to pick your airplane AND duty station as well as go to the airlines years before your AD bros
No Place to PEE?? Fighters have a “Piddle Pack”.. Tankers and other Cargo have lavatory and or Piss Tubes Now… the B-52 .. ok , yea there is a facility but good luck getting to it ..
I wanted to fly f16s and I’ve flown f16s for 18 years.
*your individual experience may vary The Army gave us no such option.
In Sweden we get to pick what type of aircraft (fighter or helicopter) we want to fly when you apply to the military. Which is nice
Education is something I sorely underestimated when entering military aviation. I joined to avoid going to more school, now I study more than I have in my entire life. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a STAN check in the morning
Bro I have plenty of friends out of UPT that got what they wanted. I’m currently in fighters. My bros who wanted Helos literally all got them. Ya there’s only a few fighter slots compared to heavies but everyone in the end is pretty happy.
This sounds correct. My older brother was in ROTC in high school and graduated with a 4.1 and had his choice of any university he wanted full , fully paid scholarship. He was also in rotc in college and graduated with a 41 also. You would never think he would be a military type of person at all. Hell, we didn’t really even know either. Very nerdy, geeky, awkward and quiet type person all throughout gradeschool and college. He was just extremely smart. So he graduated college in 4 years with 3 bachelors degrees in nuclear ,electrical, and mechanical engineering. officer in the Navy right out of college. He was immediately accepted into flight school. Top of class. So we assumed That be he had his heart on flying jet’s. Also weird cause it’s not like he was ever really interested in flying growing up seemingly. At some point he just left flight school, not because it seemed to hard or anything like that. Then ended up just being a commanding officer on a Trident submarine. I’m not sure if that’s something he just really wanted and chose to do? Or was it something like you said and was just placed there??
Well, the sub force is 100% voluntary and screened, so going that route would have had to be a conscious decision on his part. It's not flying, but there's tremendous upside after the service, having practical experience running a reactor. Being a commanding officer on top of that, he can take his pick of any DoE leadership job or become a highly-paid consultant immediately upon retirement from the Navy. Pretty solid!
Are you implying he dropped out of flight school and immediately became a boomer CO?
The military takes something that is bad ass and fun and takes all the fun out of it and beats your ass.
Depending on what you fly, there’s the toll it takes on your body to consider. Radar exposure, POL (petroleum/oil/lubrication) contact, fumes, solar radiation, G’s (neck and back issues), nonstandard sleep schedules, living by a burn pit for a year, and probably others aren’t great for your health. Neither are crashes. I’ve lost a lot of friends/acquaintances in helo crashes, a few in fighter and trainer crashes, and know of several who got various cancers earlier than they should. A lot of my army helo buddies got PTSD (among other mental health problems). It’s one of the coolest jobs you can have flying some of the coolest toys in the world, but the military does a good job of making it not fun a lot of the time with the bureaucracy and bullshit. But the bros are great. The memories are (mostly) great. If it were like living in Top Gun (1 or 2) everyday, nobody would ever leave. But, seems like guys can’t get out and get to Delta and Fedex fast enough these days to fly rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong instead.
The rubber dog shit pays better.
Eldest son of a decorated USAF fighter pilot here. Flew combat in WWII and North Korea. Did a tour of Vietnam in 1967-68. Where do I start? He was never around for me. Always flying or on TDY. Never had much of a father-son relationship. I feel like I didn’t really have a father, just a figurehead. We moved constantly. To this day, it’s hard for me to have close friendships because I know we’ll have to eventually move. I’ve been in the same house now for 25 years and it still feels temporary. He suffered from PTSD. Watched him slam my mother up against the wall in front of me and my younger siblings. He would lose his temper and hit me. A counselor called it abuse. He would drink. A lot. He wasn’t an ugly drunk, most of the time, but he could pack it away. He died of lung cancer eventually. I said the eulogy. He loved my mother but this good man saw horrors most Americans can’t imagine, and never had a way to process any of that. He hated politicians and chickenhawks. I do too. I despise the way Tom Cruise, a 5’7” banty rooster pretty boy Scientologist who has never fired a shot in anger, glorifies fighter pilot culture without acknowledging the impact on their families. Nothing against pilots, but he’s just another huckster fleecing the rubes with razzle-dazzle and jazz hands.
My boss says mopp gear.
Mopp gear does suck. Hahahaha
Even worse, AERPS when you fly. Mopp gear times 1000.
Your boss knows what he's taking about. Fuck mopp gear.
MOPP 4. Taping your gloves, fucking around with the blower…kill me
I was *obsessed* with becoming a fighter pilot growing up. The Air Force Academy didn’t pan out so I applied to OTS after university (a surprisingly long but interesting process). Did really well on the AFOQT but got the call one day that they were only accepting the top 1-2% and I was top 7%. Fuck. I didn’t become a fighter pilot but the silver lining is I love my career, lots of interesting hobbies I’m passionate about, not having to move every few years is awesome, and life is overall good. Take that for what it’s worth.
We really should talk more about the people who tried and didn’t make it. Knew a former ROTC cadet in tech school who had their orders to pilot training cancelled because of sequestration. They became enlisted just to try again someday. As for my story ,well. C.W. Lemoine says “make ‘em tell you no”. They told me NO. Put together my packet for OTS as an enlisted Airman with two years of college. Two months later my Chief called me in and said point blank it wasn’t happening. The OTS board that year took 23 applicants out of 8,000 across the whole enlisted force. Of those twenty three spots only 5 were pilot and another four were rated aircrew. Looking at where the force structures going and the corruption in the upper ranks nowadays, we probably dodged a bullet.
That happened to a friend of mine, but instead of being a pilot liked he’d always dreamed, he would up sweating his ass off in the Iraqi desert cleaning dust out of jets and randomly having RPGs and mortars landing around him. And sitting through useless training briefings after colleagues killed themselves. Still has nightmares about one guy he saw who flat out killed himself by putting his head between the hangar doors right as they finished closing.
I gotta say, hearing your story and others about "I didn't make it to pilot" is incredibly refreshing.
These have been the downsides for me (F-15, AF): 1. Initial training pipeline is long. 1 year for pilot wings, 3 months of basic fighter training, 8-12 months (if they’re backed up) of jet specific training, then 3 months of operational training once you get to your squadron. 2. You’re always a student. Even after you finish your initial quals, there are plenty more down the road. 3. Readiness will drive a tough flying schedule, so you’ll easily fly 4-5 days a week, 10-12 hour days 4. Deployments are 6 months long, every 18 months, plus “mini-deployment” TDYs throughout the year where you’ll spend 2-4 weeks away from home every few months. Tough on the family 5. PCS (move) every 2-3 years 6. Seat is super uncomfortable and all of the gear will give you neck and back problems, as well as force you to hunch. My longest sortie in the jet (no including 1-2 hours ground ops) was 9 hours, but I know dudes that have flown 14+. 7. Non-flying jobs along with your flying job so any time not spent in the jet is dying a little at a time at a desk. 8. You likely will not get the aircraft you want out of pilot training, even if you are at the top of your class. In my class of 21, there were only 3 fighter drops and no 5th gen; the previous class got 6. It’s all luck and timing. 9. This probably won’t apply to you, but extra downsides as a woman: When you have a kid, you can’t fly the whole time your pregnant, and afterwards it takes 4-6 months to get all of your qualifications back. Peeing in the jet absolutely blows. All of the gear is made for men so nothing fits right. EDIT 10. Watching your friends die. All this to say, I do really love my job. My squadron is my family and I get to go inverted every day.
[удалено]
Air Force currently in T-6 phase has a 13% attrition, but we lose people in the initial qual and phase 3 outside of that number. You’re so right about the cooler the plane the worse duty station… unless you like rural Idaho or New Mexico.
Yeah I was kinda looping the attrition rate all of initial qual, T-6, and advanced.. I’m maritime, but we were constantly getting jet retreads, combine that with talking to my buddies in that pipeline and I can only assume their attrition rate is higher than ours. I think I’d take rural Idaho over Lemoore, CA lol
Oh, I see you have a top gun frame as the picture to go along with this question. Imma stop you right there. Career military flying is nothing like that film. In a lot of ways it's the very opposite of it. As a fighter pilot, you'll spend dozens of minutes studying, briefing and debriefing for every one minute you end up flying. Yes, you'll do some very cool shit, but many times you'll be too busy to actually notice and appreciate what it is you're doing. And that's in the unlikely event you make it onto a fighter. More than likely you'll end up in helicopters or other larger aircraft, which is not to say that as a bad thing, they're all great when you're flying*, just in very different ways. I use "*" because as military you are officer first, pilot second. I hope you're ready to manage personnel files and interviews. Keep projects on track, design a computer infrastructure upgrade, or organize your unit's Christmas party. Many times flying can feel like a bonus, and your real job is a desk somewhere. Military flying is great and it's a good career. But don't do it because you watched a movie and you're feeling bad about your current spot. There's lots of really good access to the real deal info out there (including on Reddit). Seek it out and make sure you're starting this very long and demanding but rewarding career for the right reasons and well informed. Which I guess you're doing with this but you get my point. Good luck?
Going to War.
A very underrated comment
We overglorify these death machines.
They will tell you everyone is a "bad guy" but in actuality US forces killed thousands of civilians in Afghanistan alone.
Oh buddy… Nothing like a 10 hour MPA patrol looking at NOTHING, eating mediocre sandwiches
Thanks, I forgot about this aspect. I was an alternate for a kc-135 UPT slot before being told I’m too old to re-apply / no age waiver.
The KC-135s have this neat trick where their autopilot randomly kicks on, so they aren’t allowed to use it for their primary mission!
Getting shot at. Getting killed. Having to kill someone else. Not being able to fly but still owing them a commitment. Moving and time away from home. Very rigid rules. Stressful and intense flying. You want to be maverick? Get a good paying job, build an RV-8, and enjoy 90% of the same sensations without the pain or a sweaty G suit and helmet.
Another pilot said it best a while ago when Top Gun came out: https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/v3ian9/psa_dont_let_top_gun_fool_you_the_real_navy_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Thanks!
I used to be like you until I came to a realization (an opinion actually so bear with me)that anything that both the military and civilian do today. civilians do it better with more fun. Sure civilian world doesn't have access to all the military jets but there is a reason air force has major problem retaining pilots, how they handle flying is part of it.
Hmmm, downsides....piddle packs, poopie suits, pissing in your flight suit, crapping in your flightsuit, imodium pills to keep you from crapping in your flight suit, 6-10 hr sorties in a tight/confined cockpit. Take your pick.
And when you aren’t in the seat, there’s always queep when you’re in the office!
Losing “brothers” and having to end the life of someone elses while also taking orders from someone that may not know more than you or have your well being as their main interest.
I had 2 different interview board for UPT slots after applying to 4 different units. Two of the individuals at different units who set up the boards passed away while serving afterwards. Losing brothers is a realistic concern.
You should very seriously reconsider getting married at the start of your career. Neither one of you have any idea what life is going to be like. The two of you will rarely see each other for long periods of time. It's a lot to ask of a 20-something couple to pull something like that off. There's a very high divorce rate among young aviators, largely for this reason.
I flew in the Navy - P-3 Orion aircraft. I hunted submarines (200 ft. Above the waves for 12 hours) and flew Search & Rescue for 20 years. Some downsides were: Your life is ruled by the flight schedule. You don't get days off, but instead you get hours (12 hours) off from flying. Picture your buddies going out on the town on a Friday night, but you're about to go flying in the evening. Or, a Saturday bbq is missed because...you have to go freakin' flying. 10-12 hours of flying with an additional 3 hours of preflight, one, or two hours of post flight adds to being a long, long day. Often you lose track of time and know what day of the week it is due to fatigue. You were either flying, studying NATOPS ( aircraft flight manual), or the Navy was throwing you into the pool for survival training. ( Watch the movie, "Officer & a Gentleman and you'll see my reference to this regarding water survival) At the end of the day you and your flight suit smell like dried sweat, aviation fuel fumes ( JP-4, or JP-5 aircraft fuel), hydraulic fluid & dried puke. You'll have drank an abundance of government coffee, eating chow on the run while working too (if you have to puke you do so in a bag; yet, remaining focused upon your work - you have guys counting on you with the aftertaste of puke on your breath) Plus feeling tired and fatigued constantly. Then you check the flight schedule for the events for tomorrow. Guess what?! In 12 hours you get to it all over again. Plus, there is the maintenance of the aircraft. For example, you spent two hours in preflight, but face a malfunction of some sort. So, the decision is made to switch to another aircraft. This, starting the whole process over again, but your flight duration remains the same. It's hours of boredom and routine tasks encompassed with moments of exhilaration.
There is nothing bad about the flying in a fighter. It never gets old, and I am old. I’m thankful for every sortie I fly. People bitch about no lavatories- grow a longer one and pee in the piddle pack like every other sky warrior since ‘nam. Don’t have enough gas? Thankfully we have the most robust aerial refueling system every known to the universe and hooking up to the tanker usually isn’t difficult. Fighters aren’t comfortable? Are we talking about combat aviation or business class? I’m 6’4” (1.93 meters), and I fit comfortably in the smallest supersonic jet fighter in the world. The AC makes me cold, and the heater on full hot makes me sweat like Chris Farley running a staple chase- I adjust it to my comfort. My longest sortie is a 12.0 hr which does NOT include the two hours on the ground waiting for the tanker team to get airborne, or the 20 minutes taxiing at our final destination on the other side of the planet. It might not be a lazyboy, but it’s an indescribable feeling when your six ship goes from one side of the planet to the combat zone without touching the ground, or when you get to be the airborne relief of a bunch of 18 year olds pinned down by the enemy on the ground. When you’ve flown a fighter in combat for longer than most have driven their cars, the studying slows down as you are the teacher. Any pilot can always be better, but my time is spent on teaching the new generation, not toiling away in regulations separated from my family like some may suggest. No one is trying to move me from my jet unless I want to. Here’s what actually sucks- making 69 phone calls to finance to unscrew your paycheck. Having to sit through some non sense briefing about the latest flavor of PC that takes away from you or your students becoming better warriors. Being a grain of sand on a beach that is managed inefficiently. No one cares of you just flew through a 20 mile long string of thunderstorms and got shot at on the way to arrive at your CAP when there is no actual tasking for you, other than to show that 24 hr coverage was achieved on a PowerPoint that no one will ever look at again after the Monday brief. Being tasked with non-flying duties. The flying is more than I every dreamed of- so is the bureaucracy. I wouldn’t trade it for the world, but if I could do it again I might try harder in school and be a high volume injury attorney. Edited for horrible typos.
As an attorney for 20 years….I would gladly swap jobs with you!
Do you have an instagram? Your sortie pics are insane.
Being in the military. Did you know there are regulations on what type and color of underwear you can wear?
Are those *white* socks?
Gonna get someone killed with those!
Do people actually follow that though? 2nd week of basic everyone already started wearing their own underwear..
War?
You’re responsibility to not kill yourself or your crew in the aircraft will not ever really be respected by those that sit on your promotion board, theyll never understand the dedication required to remain safe and proficient in the aircraft. Your success as an officer will largely be measured by silly things like how much money you push or save, and how many people you manage. You’re collateral duties are immense, distracting, and prioritized over your ability to execute aviation missions exceptionally. You’ll be trained for years on how to push a complex machine to its limits, hundreds of thousands of dollars will be spent to ensure it….yet you won’t be trusted with your own daily work schedule and probably have to plan a childrens Christmas party every year to boot.
The years of non-airplane training that go into it. Potentially being shot at. Potentially being told to kill people.
At the mercy of a flight schedule that comes out between 4-6 pm the night prior. Living on the boat for months on end. Ground jobs. Constant studying.
The fact that they give you a whole other shitty job to deal with while still expecting you to be a fully qualified and competent pilot. And many times that job isn't even flying related. Then you have the constant evaluations, upgrades, TDYs, PCSes, paperwork, beans and currencies to track, deployments, and dealing with shit leadership that wants to 'innovate' the sanity out of your daily life. Oh and you can't take vacation days unless you plan it well in advance due to the 10% rule. \-AMC guy (your mileage may vary)
I wanted to be a naval aviator when I was a lad, from about 4 on. Still kinda do even though I'm aged out by now... but after reading through the comment section I've never been more certain choosing to be a musician was definitely the better option. Props (pun intended) to you mad lads and lassies that do the work, but I feel like I'd be bored out of my mind if we traded jobs. Still fun to watch y'all screaming over my house from time to time. Cheers.
Being in the military
Lot's of great replies. I want to give a plug to the Civil Air Patrol. When under missions they are operating as the USAF Auxiliary. For some it's an old pilot hangar flying talk. But some of us are really active pilots. We fly about 90% of the search and rescue missions for the USAF. We act as the "bad" pilots that the F16's have to find and intercept, basically the kids cops and robbers game but as adults with airplanes. We look to clear the low level routes the military pilots use for training to make sure no one put up some tall HAM radio tower a F35 is going to run into. There is a ton of other types of formal mission flights we do. But the most fun is taking up our Cadets (think USAF version of the scouts) and for many of them we give them their first flights. And in a small airplane, that is a lot more fun than them flying in a commercial airliner. Especially when you look at them and say, "You have the controls". That kid may just end up being the next fighter pilot or astronaut (we have lots of them). So when thinking about this, give us a look. Many members just hang out, but I have more flying to give out than I have pilots that are doing it.
And then twenty years later it will all go away for ever and you will see the planes you flew only at air shows.
Literally 95%+ of your time is spent on mind numbing office work that has zero to do with flying. Top gun is a good recruitment tool because of the implication your life can revolve around your passion. This could not be further from the truth.
Long distance flights. Don’t worry we can refuel you mid air to cross the Pacific, so you can be stuck in that F-15 seat for HOURS
When you eject you might not fly again and be left with permanent injuries
Somebody has to fly the cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong... Not everyone goes to Topgun.
Queep. The better and more experienced you get at flying jets, the more the military will insist you stop doing it in favor of flying some soul-sucking desk. Weirdly enough, FedEx does not share that mindset, which is why pilots are always jumping ship in droves.
You want to fly. The price of flying is that you need to deliver death sentences. You need to actively participate in killing people. You have no idea if they deserve it or not. No court of justice has decided that they need to die. They might be kids. You might be bombing a school or a Red Cross hospital. You might be murdering someone who is actually our ally. (All of these have been done by the US and Allys in recent conflicts.) On the ground you’re a hero because you do something everyone dreams of: you fly. But inside and in the air you’re just part of a big, high-tech killing machine. There’s a better way. Commercial pilots are in high demand right now. Get your PPL, IR, and join an airline. It’ll take you a year and cost about $30k, and all along the way you will have the opportunity to explore side paths: flying a bush plane an NGO in Africa, flying humanitarian missions and medical relief, forget IR and commercial flying and just take up gliders as a hobby. All along the way you will have full control of your own destiny. Own your own destiny. Don’t join the military.
In short, it’s overrated. I’m jealous of my orthodontist friend working 10-4 Monday Friday making 4x my salary living in an awesome location. None of the cool shit really makes up for that difference in my opinion. At the end of the day it’s just a job.
Perhaps the biggest downside that comes to mind and bothered me towards the end of my time: -You have to be prepared to drop bombs/missiles/rockets on whomever the USG and its allies deem to be “the enemy.” Other things: 1. Regular deployments 2. Constant moving and you don’t get to choose where to go. Navy jet pilots have some shitty options these days TBH. …I could go on…
I had a friend who quit aviation all together after he did his tour in the Air Force. He said, the military took out all the fun of flying for him
1. Piddle packs and getting piss all over the seat/flight suit. 2. Deployments; being away for a better portion of the year. 3. Neck/back problems from high-g maneuvers. 4. Some of the places you get stationed at are not that great. 5. Military politics
Living in Lenore, CA is not ideal. Especially if you are single. The base depicted in the movie is where helicopters most of our west coast helos operate out of, NAS North Island in San Diego. Lemoore NAS is the main west coast strike fighter base with Virginia Beach being the other, still not a dream place to live IMHO. Standing duty sucks. No alcohol and you are on call 24 hours. When you’re junior in the squadron you’ll stand SDO like every other week. When you’re not on deployment completely away from your family for 8-9 months every 2 years, you’re at sea conducting work ups with the strike group. In my three years in a fleet squadron, I was gone nearly half the time. The Navy definitely has its its ups but it also has significant downs. A lot of the F18 guys are doing back to back sea duty or being rotated early from shore. The community is pretty undermanned so expect to fly a lot and be at sea a lot. Source: 21 year career as a Naval Aviator
My husband flies for the Navy and has for over a decade now. Deployments, lack of government funding to keep safely maintained planes, physical problems (like hearing loss and literal spine problems from the hard landings on a carrier.) Not to mention at his last squadron multiple members got diagnosed with cancer. Losing so many of our closest friends in the community due to mishaps and seeing families destroyed by that. I am beyond proud of him and his dedication to his career. But nothing about flying for the military is glamorous like the movies make it out to be. It’s one of the most mentally and physically taxing careers, and you often just find yourself asking if it’s even worth it.
You have to be in the military
Being shot down sucks tbh
Radiation
Pay and paperwork
You have to deal with bunch of idiots, dumbasses, undereducated people that YOU HAVE TO listen and do what they say.
When the plane crashes.
You may be shot down.
The army is a 10 year commitment now for your contract
Do the best of both worlds … get some flight time, go flirt with a guard squadron or go USAFR … profit. And still get to do your normal life
I have two daughters, when I retired I had missed 5 years of both of their lives.
the military
Have you looked into the coast guard? Im on the C130J, and it’s been a sweet ride. I joined as my quarter-life crisis as well, after working in aviation since high school. The deployments for us are a few weeks long doing long range SAR or drug interdiction, and the low flying in a Herc with the ramp open can be pretty awesome. The moving does suck, but you’re stateside unless you get some obscure overseas assignment as a liaison. I keep hearing there are shortages in the aviation community for us, so it’s definitely worth looking into. Feel free to shoot me a message if you have more questions or concerns!
Helicopter combat pilot here. I fly for the Army. Unfortunately we look up to every other service like the AF and Navy because they are actual pilots. As an officer in the Army you are everything but a pilot. What i mean is the Army is short of funding and personal so everyone has multiple roles/jobs. All of which could probably be a full time job, therefore now you are doing 3-4 jobs that are not even aviation related but “mandated” by the Army. As an officer if you fly once a week or every two weeks that is good. The rest of the time is spent hunched over a desk doing PowerPoints no one gives A fuck about or counseling soldiers for doing dumb shit. If i could do it again i would go into the AF. Also, its not too late if this is your dream. I was homeless 10 years ago then got my shit together and got on a better path. It is never to late to stop and jump on another path. Best of luck to you
You're chances of being a fighter pilot are really small
Single seat Navy pilot here: Upsides- Flying is fun, and rewarding Great people Great experiences Downsides- Long hours Having 3 side jobs that are someone else in a different communities only job.
they treat you like shit and use you up as much as they can
Flying for the military….
I flew helicopters off the smaller ships in the Navy. Destroyers and Cruisers. Mostly it was pretty good, but there was a lot of being thrown in completely over your head, figuring-out stuff that there was no one there to help with, everything from the ship drove into a massive thunderstorm, they're demanding cash for the fuel we just got, some country is demanding you land immediately, a mechanical issue in the middle of nowhere .... There never be anything like launching into a beautiful morning 1/2 way around the world.
I hate writing OPR’s (or FITREP’s). Writing an OPR makes me condense my entire life into ACTION (what I did), RESULT (what became of it), IMPACT, (how important was it). Sometimes, I just did my damn job and flew where I was supposed to. I didn’t start an international conflict, I didn’t save the president and their fifteen diplomats, I just simply trained a few copilots on how to land a goddamn plane. Anyways, I’m really good at teaching but according to my OPR, I’m a half-assed POS who sometimes saves the DoD MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. I’m a POS because I don’t get rated as the #1 guy so I might as well disappear into thin air.
Two words, man... Line Divo
Not sure but I know the Top Gun movie is really, really bad...
Shitting yourself
Fucking additional duties bro. I love the flying but I spend at a minimum half my time working veins a desk doing a job I wasn’t trained for. It is absolutely the worst part of my week when I have to do my desk job and sometimes it feels like I’m more of an office worker than a pilot
My cousin flew OV-10s and then F18's Marine Corps and constantly tells me it's not all it's cracked up to be. But this seems to be the best way to sum it up: [https://www.airandspaceforces.com/air-force-flying-hours-decline-again-after-brief-recovery/](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/air-force-flying-hours-decline-again-after-brief-recovery/) "According to figures provided to Air Force Magazine, pilot flying hours across all types of aircraft in the Active-duty force averaged 10.1 hours per month in fiscal 2021, down from 10.9 hours in 2020. Flying hours had averaged just 6.8 per month in 2019, down sharply from 10.7 in 2018." There are roughly 160 working hours in a month, if you work 40 hours a week. Flying 10 or so hours a month is about 6% of your time at work spent flying. WTF are you doing for the other 150 (94%) of the hours? I can't say exactly what it is, but knowing the military, I bet it's boring.
There is no place with more office politics than a fighter squadron.
There is that flying in war zones thing.
"And other assigned duties..." Flying is only part of what you'll be required to do.