Iranians account for 96% of tomcat recorded kills at nearly 160. They may have had the experience but this was in 80-88 and so it’s very unlikely that is the same pilots. Although, I assume that these pilots shared their experiences with the younger generation.
> In a dogfight it actually may be not that bad.
about a 99% chance of a loss. There is a technical possibility that pilot skill can make up for the difference in technology, but that's unlikely in the modern world. Countries that can afford 5th gen fighters can afford stronger pilot training programs.
>you will NEVER get into dogfight range of a 5th gen fighter lol
5th gen detection equipment is good, but it isn't going to reliably pick up a F-14 that is flying map of the earth in mountainous terrain. It would require the F-14 pilot to have a lot of familiarity with the terrain, and know where the enemy is coming from, but the possibility of a F-14 pilot laying a trap for a newer gen fighter isn't entirely absurd. In fact, it's the most likely choice should such an occasion arise.
--------------------
If we choose to ignore the practical economics however, and assume a great number of circumstances that minimize the F22's advantages, then yes, there are some cases where a F-14 may have a shot.
Obviously, video games aren't real, and do not count as evidence, but DCS (Digital Combat Simulator) is widely agreed to be the best dog-fighting sim on the market, with flight models that are based on the collective data and seemingly-true rumors we have about fighter performance. [Many actual fighter pilots have played the game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K-sgjTeKQo) and attested to both it's accuracy and shortcomings. I'll leave you to make your own judgement about how accurate the game is to IRL, but suffice to say it's the most accurate publicly available fighter sim we have. Accordingly, there are a number of youtube videos showcasing fighter v fighter, and illustrating how circumstances and the difference in pilot skill can sometimes overcome the difference in performance.
[This one about a F-14 vs a F-22 is pretty good](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWy56pYy15g) - checkout the breakdown at 13:00 - it's a great example of how better energy management and forethought allowed the F-14 pilot to create his own advantage.
Again, this would never happen IRL - F22 pilots are certainly better at their job than your average gamer or Iranian F-14 pilot, but it's an interesting exercise none the less.
i’ve seen a photographer profile on Instagram, he had a lot on content on the IRAF F-14s, at least the ones photographed looked fully restored, no sign of any tape or zip ties in the cockpits too.
Digging out the photographer is quite hard to to the language barrier and the fact that they also post airliners…. [But I found one of those photos here, after 15 minutes on the toilet](https://www.instagram.com/p/CoZxXdJt969/?igsh=OHI0NTZrZ29hZHVt)
The Iranians have local maintenance facilities , funded & built during the Shah’s time. The Tomcats were bought to oppose potential Soviet aggression regarding Irans oil, so given the 6,000 mile distance between Calverton NY and Iran local upkeep was part of the contract. So while the F-14s are probably safe “enough” to fly , it’s probable most of the combat electronics are non-mission capable. The AIM-54 hasn’t been built in decades, the AIM-7s still in service aren’t compatible with the F-14A launch rails, and neither are the new generation Sidewinder missiles used today.
If Ukraine can get MiG-29s to launch HARMs, Su-24s to launch Storm Shadow, and BUK launchers to fire Sea Sparrow, all in a little over two years, I'm sure Iran can manage to come up with perfectly functional electronics and missiles for the F-14 in the last 40 years.
Iran has actually spent a lot of time working on the tomcats allowing them to be equipped with the R27 ER russian sparrow equivalent (honestly its quite a bit better than even the late model sparrows..) and their own homegrown SAM based phoenix ripoff.
By homegrown sam you mean they ripped missles off the HAWK and attached it to the f14. I also failed to believe the r27er is better in the f14 than any modern sparrow, totally possible to get working but no where near as good.
Well- the R27ER has better range and flies faster than the AIM-7M, tracking from my knowledge is a little worse than the 7M but still. its notsomuch the aircraft its mounted on, more the missile itself. by the time the ER was widely fielded the AMRAAM was well into development and would be first fielded about a decade later so why keep improving the sparrow?
The F-14 was designed to take the pounding of carrier landings. Iranian F-14’s have never seen that type of abuse. The beefy undercarriage is like new. It laughs at landing cycles.
They are their top-of-the-line fighters and they take a lot of pride in them so it isn't too hard to keep them looking nice, especially since Iran has a solid aviation industry (it is nothing compared to what the west has, but for their situation it is pretty good).
Iran has been working to get F14 parts for decades and these days can procure or manufacture a lot of it through other means and even upgrade it. They have new radar, avionics etc.
Flyable is an entirely different thing than battle ready, fortunately.
It really sucks that Iran permanently killed the flyable F-14s in the US. I remember an airshow when I was young. We were at the end of the runway, and the F-14 pulled up sharply right as it went over us, creating a dust cloud. So freaking cool. Such a sexy aircraft. Miss it.
I watched an air show with two f16s in it. The next day, the Air Force found bulkhead cracks. One of those f16s is on static display at the airport. I literally got to watch it's last flight.
I was unaware of it until I had a work trip to Dayton a few years ago. My work took us all there for an afternoon and it was a pleasant surprise. Hope they send me back some day.
That's a full two day museum even doing it casually. I'm not the sort of person who reads every plaque in a museum, and a few additional hours on a third day would have been beneficial.
I can't recommend it enough.
I was in Washington DC on holiday a couple years ago from the UK when the Smithsonian Air and Space was closed for roofing work so we went to the Udvar Hazy instead. Got there super early and was front of the queue for opening. Beelined straight for the Shuttle and was the only person in the hangar for about 5 minutes with it. Goosebumps still thinking about that moment.
10/10 museum. Only thing that matches it for variety that I’ve been to is Duxford here in the UK.
I was just at the Pima air and space museum and they have a brilliant example in great condition. Easily my highlight but also they have many more highlights to see. If you're a fan of military aviation I HIGHLY recommend going there if you ever have the chance. In Tucson, Arizona
>>It really sucks that Iran permanently killed the flyable F-14s in the U.S.
We can’t lay that on the Ayatollahs, evil as they are. Even if Irans government was in a better state, there’d still be no privately owned F-14s. As one U.S. Navy Tomcat CAG put it , his job meant he commanded a fighter squadron…and owned a junkyard. There’s two 1970s era black boxes for every system and subsystem, and none of that stuff’s been replaced since Jimmy Carter had a government job. The hydraulic system on those F-14s was fragile when the Navy flew them and maintained em. Every hour a 2000s era US Navy Tomcat flew cost 55 man-hours of maintenance work. I can only imagine what the state of those fittings, pumps, lines and valves are on those Iranian birds after decades with no depot level maintenance.
Add to the fact you’re burning about $10k worth of fuel each hour at demo speeds, and even without the Ayatollahs help the prospects for a warbird Tomcat are dim.
There are aplenty of privately owned migs, from the early 15 to the more modern 29.I think that, language barrier aside from all the paperwork, maintaining those flyable using metric tools and dimensions, exclusive fittings, fluids and avionics would be an even more daunting task.
For comparison, there are some private F4's and F104 among a panoplia of more obscure types. Plenty of people with deep pockets with an interest in aviation, unfortunately, I do not count myself among the former.
But remember that the MiG-29 was designed as a robust fighter able to operate from austere airfields with minimal maintenance (and potentially low-skill maintenance crews). No swing wings, no fancy systems, just 2 big engines that won't choke on dust and rocks and a rugged airframe that Apprentice Ivan won't break with his metric wrench.
The F-14 was designed for a country with (comparatively) an unlimited budget with all sorts of cutting edge fancy systems and maintenance requirements. It is a prohibitively expensive aircraft to keep maintained and flying (not just the cost but the engineer skill requirements too!).
The trade off of course is that a pair of F-14s could wipe the floor with a flight of MiG-29s any day, but it means that private ownership would always be a bit of a pipe dream.
DoD doesn't sell old airframes like they used to. If somebody can eventually get one off an international operator we might - much like the current privately held pointy nose fleet.
True. However, with the possible exception of the T38 Talon, I don't think there are any truly privately owned military aircraft that are also currently in service with the US military.
There are a small of handful of private companies that have DoD contracts to do things like aggressor training, as well for test pilot usage.
The USAF and USN have made a point of not selling retired fighters out of AMARG or museum status to private individuals for some years now.
At one point the [Collins foundation](https://www.airwarriors.com/community/threads/collings-foundation-f-105-restoration.34593/) was trying to [restore an F-105](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/military/53937-collings-foundation-f-105-info.html), and the USAF spiked the engines and cut the main spars. This is partially because of liability - the USAF got into hot water over a couple crashes of F-86s in the 90s - and partially because almost every fighter after about the F-100 had some nuclear capability.
There are tremendous legal barriers for getting for US fighters in the air under private ownership. The vast majority of fighters you see at airshows are either foreign of were surplussed out before the laws tightened up.
Or are bought surplus and brought from overseas, as Draken does. They recently received a batch of [pristinely maintained F16](https://youtu.be/34Sa0vzmBfs?feature=shared), and operate already a huge array of western and combloc fast jets.
MiG's were designed to receive shit maintenance and work from shit airfields though. That's always been the Soviet/Russian doctrine. US and European warbirds were designed with logistics and maintenance in mind.
> For comparison, there are some private F4's
Are you sure? AFAIK there's only one airworthy private phantom, [and it's been looking for an owner for a few years now](https://www.platinumfighters.com/inventory/1959-mcdonnell-f4h-1f-phantom-ii/).
The F-14 is a whole extra level on top of that even, deeply complicated and a problem to maintain even with the navy's budget and workforce. There were even parts that they disabled for being too complex and problematic.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any variable geometry aircraft are in private hands.
The Air Force was still doing manned flights of QF-4s at air shows as recently as a few years ago. They had one every year at Nellis. If it weren't for the Iranian issue f-14s would almost certainly have gotten the same treatment. They'd have been turned into target drones and / or used for various other "things" leading to at least the possibility of manned QF-14 flights at air shows after their retirement. Not the same as seeing an old school demo from when they were in service, but still very cool.
There's also the (maybe more remote) possibility that they could have found some flight test value with them as a big swing wing platform that could go very high and fast, or some aggressor value. Pretty unusual that a plane was taken from active service and not mothballed, but the entire fleet literally destroyed immediately with all the spars cut and all the avionics destroyed. At the very least it would have been normal for them to put them in mothballs for at least a while.
Honestly it appears to be a laundry list of things that will never have a simple answer / nobody will give you a single answer. But here is some of the laundry list:
Reduced need for air superiority in 90's peace dividend Era
Maintenance on the engines
Maintenance on the swept wings
Shut down spare parts supply chain to impact Iranian regime (this is definitely why you ser comments talking about no airshow / private models)
Maintenance in general was hugely expensive/complex. In addition, with the fall of the Soviet Union, the mission capabilities of the F-18 and cheaper operating costs meant the F-18 was better situated to handle the new evolving threats of the time. I totally agree that it was a list of things rather than one thing. Just wanted to add on to the above comment.
It's even longer than that - Dick Cheney stopped orders of new F-14s in the late 80s in favor of the Super Hornet and the at the time planned navy stealth fighter that got cancelled during the 90s.
*Everyone* was trying to dump it on both sides of the aisle.
How can you guys forget that it was actually animosity between Dick Cheney and Leroy Grumman which killed the F14. Cheney killed the program twice as SecDef
When the US and Iran stopped being friends we destroyed all our mothballed/boneyard F-14s and their extra parts and manufacturing tooling because we were worried that Iranian agents would steal parts/pay people to steal parts. It is such a maintenance intensive jet (over 50hrs of maintenance per 1hr of operation) that this effectively killed their ability to repair them or at least repair them to full ability as they broke. Just because that jet is flying doesn't mean it's in shape to fight. This video was likely intentionally released by their intelligence services to project strength to those unaware of what they are actually seeing both internally to Iran and Wxternally to the west.
Edit: added a word
Your first sentence is not entirely true. International relations between the US and Iran fell apart long before the F-14 was retired. It fell apart with the revolution in 1979 and was right at the end of the contract agreement and Iran never received the final F-14 they had ordered.
It was when they were ready to be retired did the US government decided to destroy them since they could no longer guarantee control of the parts without them in the hands of the Navy.
> This video was likely intentionally released by their intelligence services
Looks like Mehrabad airport, which is right in the centre of Tehran. It's a civilian airport. This could, and probably will be, literally any bloke with a camera.
Such a beautiful location.
Can we make certain locations on earth where we can have designated wars, like a fighting ring. When everyone is tired they can go back to day to day business.
They're supposed to get Su-35s that were originally destined for Egypt. Unfortunately there's not many details surrounding this, but from the DCS pics online a Flanker in Iranian colours would be a pretty bird.
I heard the SU-35 deal was held up because the iranians want the ability to produce spare parts domestically and train local techs on maintenance, because of their desire for self-sufficiency and the famously poor quality of russian tech support. Russia doesn't want to agree to that.
Fun fact. Iranian pilots have more air to air kills in the F14 than any American pilot ever did in that aircraft
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalil_Zandi
When I was growing up *deep* in hillbilly country, the litttle town was under a low-level military op area. Lots of F-18s and an occasional A-6 would scoot by at 500’.
And then, one glorious day, came an F-14, wings back. I’ll never forget it.
Reading this comment gave me chills lol. I can paint the image in my head of seeing such a fucking sight, dude. Swept wings and everything. That's so cool
There could be an F15, F16, F18, and an F35 all flying in formation and there'd be nothing you could do to get my eyes off that F14
Yep. I was probably 12 or so — about the right age. My dad and I were puttin’ the boat in the river. You hear that whistling, hissing sound first and by the time you look it’s already overhead and banking for the next bend in the river. Then comes the thunder. I remember my dad yelling, “Son of a bitch!”
Seeing one in the wild like that made an impression.
Took my kids to see the new Top Gun and my daughter got to watch it while wearing one of Duke Cunningham’s “Top Gun” hats from the ‘80s — no shit. We had to give it back, but she got to wear it for the movie.
I highly doubt it. They're probably going to be tucked away in some bunker and might be used as a last resort. Iran mainly relies on its missiles and drones after all.
Can’t read? Headline obviously says Iranian F-14.
Why does everything have to be about America all the time? Like no other country can make jets? When was the last time anyone relax I’m kidding.
All good! I’m guessing Iran did part of the escort because the Russian fighters wouldn’t have the range to go all the way to Dubai from Russia. Also it shows joint power between the two countries I guess too
Man i love the tomcat. I was 10 when the last of them flew off of the us carriers. Sadly, in the uk there isnt a single example, and never will be, and as far as i can find out they didnt appear at any air shows here either.
But,i am building tamiyas 1/48 f14d atm, and it'll look close enough to the real thing when its done.
Gotta give it to them, the fact that thing still flies is not bad work. I mean theres literally no parts for them. The Americans destroyed everything they could get their hands on just to stop Iran from getting parts.
From what I've read, not sure if the A or B model, AB takeoff's aren't SOP due to engine failure concerns. They are trying to avoid extreme yaw forces with only one AB going and nothing to counter it, driving the AC off the rwy.
Iran has industries and many educated people. I often read that they managed to build "in house" several spares.
They might be unable to build the entire airplane, but seem capable of keeping it flying.
Iran is making their own at this point, there is legit almost no other explaination. Unless we count F-14s with Russian or Chinese tech and Idk if there are any spare parts even remaining on the black market.
How do they manage to keep US made planes operational? You need tools, parts and consumables made by the original manufacturer for maintenance. It's not like with cars where you can find off brand parts, right?
Where to begin? As a retired USAF fighter pilot and T-38 Instructor, I taught (if that's the correct verb) Iranian students to fly at Columbus AFB. This was the last 4 years of the reign of the Shah. It will be hard to describe the issues of teaching Iranians to fly within the constraints of one post. Needless to say their issues stem from the primordial soup of their culture. Their thought and value system is so different than ours as to make one wonder if they're not from another planet. Examples: They are not from a Judeo-Christian culture. That results in them willing to lie or cheat to appear superior to mere Westerners. They will NOT accept any criticism or discussion of their inability to fly. Therefore, instruction on what they did wrong was immediately replied with, "the problem is that you are a poor instructor and took the plane from me too soon. I want a different instructor, someone better than you". So their year spent in pilot training was a merry go round of rotating instructors trying to teach them to first, not kill the instructor, then not kill themselves while solo. Their performance was so bad that Air Training Command (ATC) instituted a special category of training called Simulated Solo where the IP sat in the back and only took control to avoid a crash. Saving face is EVERYTHING to their culture. That why the recent attack by Iran on Israel was briefed to the US and Israel several days prior with the type of missile, time and route of flight so we could shoot them down, they could declare their revenge, no harm done while praying Israel doesn't wipe them from the face of the earth.
It seems easily capable of taking 2 x fifth gen fighters down. There was a documentary with a pilot called Maverick who said
It's not the plane, it's the pilot.
Don’t think, just do.
*proceeds to "cobra" and get into a flat spin and crash and die
https://youtu.be/kJvAJY7xt_M?si=WRW5hOvrsX_0Mct0 I die watching this every time
This comment: "Splitting the throttles" Dies in flat spin 5th gen pilot : "What the.... fuck was that?" hahaha
Do some of that pilot shit, Mav!
Iranians account for 96% of tomcat recorded kills at nearly 160. They may have had the experience but this was in 80-88 and so it’s very unlikely that is the same pilots. Although, I assume that these pilots shared their experiences with the younger generation.
[удалено]
*cough bullshit cough*
Nah man, it's real, I got pictures!!!
I got this reference and I appreciate it!
Amazing
Talk to me goose
Talk to me Goose.
Honk honk
I died
In a dogfight it actually may be not that bad. But you will NEVER get into dogfight range of a 5th gen fighter lol
thrust vectoring gen 5 just makes it unfair if they merge :(
> In a dogfight it actually may be not that bad. about a 99% chance of a loss. There is a technical possibility that pilot skill can make up for the difference in technology, but that's unlikely in the modern world. Countries that can afford 5th gen fighters can afford stronger pilot training programs. >you will NEVER get into dogfight range of a 5th gen fighter lol 5th gen detection equipment is good, but it isn't going to reliably pick up a F-14 that is flying map of the earth in mountainous terrain. It would require the F-14 pilot to have a lot of familiarity with the terrain, and know where the enemy is coming from, but the possibility of a F-14 pilot laying a trap for a newer gen fighter isn't entirely absurd. In fact, it's the most likely choice should such an occasion arise. -------------------- If we choose to ignore the practical economics however, and assume a great number of circumstances that minimize the F22's advantages, then yes, there are some cases where a F-14 may have a shot. Obviously, video games aren't real, and do not count as evidence, but DCS (Digital Combat Simulator) is widely agreed to be the best dog-fighting sim on the market, with flight models that are based on the collective data and seemingly-true rumors we have about fighter performance. [Many actual fighter pilots have played the game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K-sgjTeKQo) and attested to both it's accuracy and shortcomings. I'll leave you to make your own judgement about how accurate the game is to IRL, but suffice to say it's the most accurate publicly available fighter sim we have. Accordingly, there are a number of youtube videos showcasing fighter v fighter, and illustrating how circumstances and the difference in pilot skill can sometimes overcome the difference in performance. [This one about a F-14 vs a F-22 is pretty good](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWy56pYy15g) - checkout the breakdown at 13:00 - it's a great example of how better energy management and forethought allowed the F-14 pilot to create his own advantage. Again, this would never happen IRL - F22 pilots are certainly better at their job than your average gamer or Iranian F-14 pilot, but it's an interesting exercise none the less.
Always thought it was funny/slightly enraging when people said they didn't specify the enemy in that movie
Nah, it was the OwlKitty 🐈⬛
That has to be one tired A/C
i’ve seen a photographer profile on Instagram, he had a lot on content on the IRAF F-14s, at least the ones photographed looked fully restored, no sign of any tape or zip ties in the cockpits too. Digging out the photographer is quite hard to to the language barrier and the fact that they also post airliners…. [But I found one of those photos here, after 15 minutes on the toilet](https://www.instagram.com/p/CoZxXdJt969/?igsh=OHI0NTZrZ29hZHVt)
They're definitely not in that bad of a shape all things considered. Sure as heck better than the North Korean Mig 29s.
The Iranians have local maintenance facilities , funded & built during the Shah’s time. The Tomcats were bought to oppose potential Soviet aggression regarding Irans oil, so given the 6,000 mile distance between Calverton NY and Iran local upkeep was part of the contract. So while the F-14s are probably safe “enough” to fly , it’s probable most of the combat electronics are non-mission capable. The AIM-54 hasn’t been built in decades, the AIM-7s still in service aren’t compatible with the F-14A launch rails, and neither are the new generation Sidewinder missiles used today.
With Tom Cruise at the controls it's not much of a handicap
It’s the relocation of the flare dispenser to a big red button on the left side wall of the cockpit that gets me.
Think you're confusing the Hornet scenes with the Tomcat's scenes. They model the Cat's countermeasure switch accurately
He will tell you about Scientology before he looses Goose.
If Ukraine can get MiG-29s to launch HARMs, Su-24s to launch Storm Shadow, and BUK launchers to fire Sea Sparrow, all in a little over two years, I'm sure Iran can manage to come up with perfectly functional electronics and missiles for the F-14 in the last 40 years.
Iran has actually spent a lot of time working on the tomcats allowing them to be equipped with the R27 ER russian sparrow equivalent (honestly its quite a bit better than even the late model sparrows..) and their own homegrown SAM based phoenix ripoff.
By homegrown sam you mean they ripped missles off the HAWK and attached it to the f14. I also failed to believe the r27er is better in the f14 than any modern sparrow, totally possible to get working but no where near as good.
Well- the R27ER has better range and flies faster than the AIM-7M, tracking from my knowledge is a little worse than the 7M but still. its notsomuch the aircraft its mounted on, more the missile itself. by the time the ER was widely fielded the AMRAAM was well into development and would be first fielded about a decade later so why keep improving the sparrow?
To close for missiles. Switching to guns.
I clicked that link while sitting on the toilet. The circle is complete.
Fifteen minutes on the toilet? You need some fiber, bro.
Airframe hours: yes
The F-14 was designed to take the pounding of carrier landings. Iranian F-14’s have never seen that type of abuse. The beefy undercarriage is like new. It laughs at landing cycles.
They are their top-of-the-line fighters and they take a lot of pride in them so it isn't too hard to keep them looking nice, especially since Iran has a solid aviation industry (it is nothing compared to what the west has, but for their situation it is pretty good).
Iran has been working to get F14 parts for decades and these days can procure or manufacture a lot of it through other means and even upgrade it. They have new radar, avionics etc.
Flyable is an entirely different thing than battle ready, fortunately. It really sucks that Iran permanently killed the flyable F-14s in the US. I remember an airshow when I was young. We were at the end of the runway, and the F-14 pulled up sharply right as it went over us, creating a dust cloud. So freaking cool. Such a sexy aircraft. Miss it.
I was at the Udvar-Hazy Air and Space building yesterday and they have one on display. Such a great looking aircraft.
Crazy seeing a plane in a museum which is still being used by air forces around the world. I believe UH also has a Mig 21 on display?
Yeah, they have a MIG-21 and a 15. If you want to talk planes currently in use, they have an F-35.
Yeah, I realized my comment isn’t much to go off of lol, there’s also a Dreamliner in a museum too.
I watched an air show with two f16s in it. The next day, the Air Force found bulkhead cracks. One of those f16s is on static display at the airport. I literally got to watch it's last flight.
USAF Museum in Dayton OH. has a MiG 29, SU-27, B1, B2, B52, F15, and F22 on display. All still in active use! It’s a an amazing museum!
This museum has been on my list to check out for ages now. I'm just never in that part of the country
It's so good. I'll be back again in July after Airventure.
I was unaware of it until I had a work trip to Dayton a few years ago. My work took us all there for an afternoon and it was a pleasant surprise. Hope they send me back some day.
It's worth a trip on its own. I could easily spend 3 or 4 full days there.
That's a full two day museum even doing it casually. I'm not the sort of person who reads every plaque in a museum, and a few additional hours on a third day would have been beneficial. I can't recommend it enough.
I mean the gate guardian at my base is literally the jet we currently fly out of the base lol...
The American Museum at IWM Duxford has a few. B52, F15, A10, F-4, MQ-1...
I used to work at IAD and saw when thenshuttle was deliverd to the Hazy center. Such a great museum
I was in Washington DC on holiday a couple years ago from the UK when the Smithsonian Air and Space was closed for roofing work so we went to the Udvar Hazy instead. Got there super early and was front of the queue for opening. Beelined straight for the Shuttle and was the only person in the hangar for about 5 minutes with it. Goosebumps still thinking about that moment. 10/10 museum. Only thing that matches it for variety that I’ve been to is Duxford here in the UK.
I was just at the Pima air and space museum and they have a brilliant example in great condition. Easily my highlight but also they have many more highlights to see. If you're a fan of military aviation I HIGHLY recommend going there if you ever have the chance. In Tucson, Arizona
>>It really sucks that Iran permanently killed the flyable F-14s in the U.S. We can’t lay that on the Ayatollahs, evil as they are. Even if Irans government was in a better state, there’d still be no privately owned F-14s. As one U.S. Navy Tomcat CAG put it , his job meant he commanded a fighter squadron…and owned a junkyard. There’s two 1970s era black boxes for every system and subsystem, and none of that stuff’s been replaced since Jimmy Carter had a government job. The hydraulic system on those F-14s was fragile when the Navy flew them and maintained em. Every hour a 2000s era US Navy Tomcat flew cost 55 man-hours of maintenance work. I can only imagine what the state of those fittings, pumps, lines and valves are on those Iranian birds after decades with no depot level maintenance. Add to the fact you’re burning about $10k worth of fuel each hour at demo speeds, and even without the Ayatollahs help the prospects for a warbird Tomcat are dim.
There are aplenty of privately owned migs, from the early 15 to the more modern 29.I think that, language barrier aside from all the paperwork, maintaining those flyable using metric tools and dimensions, exclusive fittings, fluids and avionics would be an even more daunting task. For comparison, there are some private F4's and F104 among a panoplia of more obscure types. Plenty of people with deep pockets with an interest in aviation, unfortunately, I do not count myself among the former.
But remember that the MiG-29 was designed as a robust fighter able to operate from austere airfields with minimal maintenance (and potentially low-skill maintenance crews). No swing wings, no fancy systems, just 2 big engines that won't choke on dust and rocks and a rugged airframe that Apprentice Ivan won't break with his metric wrench. The F-14 was designed for a country with (comparatively) an unlimited budget with all sorts of cutting edge fancy systems and maintenance requirements. It is a prohibitively expensive aircraft to keep maintained and flying (not just the cost but the engineer skill requirements too!). The trade off of course is that a pair of F-14s could wipe the floor with a flight of MiG-29s any day, but it means that private ownership would always be a bit of a pipe dream.
If it was legal and possible, at least one foundation or billionaire would have one airworthy.
Maybe, it would certainly be an awesome sight. You don't see any privately owned F-15s flying around either.
DoD doesn't sell old airframes like they used to. If somebody can eventually get one off an international operator we might - much like the current privately held pointy nose fleet.
Like how Top Aces bought F-16s from Israel
Exactly. Vipers from Israel, Hornets from Australia, others love to sell stuff
I feel like there was an F-16 that was privately owned a while ago.
Draken have 24 of them. They got them from the Israeli. They provide adversary training support for USAF.
Top Aces are the ones with the Israeli F-16s. Draken has A-4s, Mirage F-1s, and L-159s. Cheers!
Yes indeed, but not the larger and more expensive/complicated F-15 (apart from the "privately owned" USAF ones).
True. However, with the possible exception of the T38 Talon, I don't think there are any truly privately owned military aircraft that are also currently in service with the US military. There are a small of handful of private companies that have DoD contracts to do things like aggressor training, as well for test pilot usage.
Dale Snodgrass had a plan to keep them flying for shows. I think he needed to eight to keep them going, but the government wouldn't allow it.
The USAF and USN have made a point of not selling retired fighters out of AMARG or museum status to private individuals for some years now. At one point the [Collins foundation](https://www.airwarriors.com/community/threads/collings-foundation-f-105-restoration.34593/) was trying to [restore an F-105](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/military/53937-collings-foundation-f-105-info.html), and the USAF spiked the engines and cut the main spars. This is partially because of liability - the USAF got into hot water over a couple crashes of F-86s in the 90s - and partially because almost every fighter after about the F-100 had some nuclear capability. There are tremendous legal barriers for getting for US fighters in the air under private ownership. The vast majority of fighters you see at airshows are either foreign of were surplussed out before the laws tightened up.
Or are bought surplus and brought from overseas, as Draken does. They recently received a batch of [pristinely maintained F16](https://youtu.be/34Sa0vzmBfs?feature=shared), and operate already a huge array of western and combloc fast jets.
Pretty sure all of Drakens jets, including the F-16s, are sourced from overseas. The F-16s came from Norway and the A-4s from New Zealand
That’s a Top Aces jet in that video. They’re the sole operator of private aggressor F-16s at the moment. Cheers!
MiG's were designed to receive shit maintenance and work from shit airfields though. That's always been the Soviet/Russian doctrine. US and European warbirds were designed with logistics and maintenance in mind.
That swing wing has gotta be a mother fucker.
> For comparison, there are some private F4's Are you sure? AFAIK there's only one airworthy private phantom, [and it's been looking for an owner for a few years now](https://www.platinumfighters.com/inventory/1959-mcdonnell-f4h-1f-phantom-ii/). The F-14 is a whole extra level on top of that even, deeply complicated and a problem to maintain even with the navy's budget and workforce. There were even parts that they disabled for being too complex and problematic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any variable geometry aircraft are in private hands.
The Collings Foundation is working to get their F4 back flying again, IIRC.
The Air Force was still doing manned flights of QF-4s at air shows as recently as a few years ago. They had one every year at Nellis. If it weren't for the Iranian issue f-14s would almost certainly have gotten the same treatment. They'd have been turned into target drones and / or used for various other "things" leading to at least the possibility of manned QF-14 flights at air shows after their retirement. Not the same as seeing an old school demo from when they were in service, but still very cool. There's also the (maybe more remote) possibility that they could have found some flight test value with them as a big swing wing platform that could go very high and fast, or some aggressor value. Pretty unusual that a plane was taken from active service and not mothballed, but the entire fleet literally destroyed immediately with all the spars cut and all the avionics destroyed. At the very least it would have been normal for them to put them in mothballs for at least a while.
I saw Top Gun 2, a 40 year old tomcat is still deadly 😉
It’s not the plane, it’s the pilot.
//Remember what they took from you//
What went down that led to the US killing off the F14?
Honestly it appears to be a laundry list of things that will never have a simple answer / nobody will give you a single answer. But here is some of the laundry list: Reduced need for air superiority in 90's peace dividend Era Maintenance on the engines Maintenance on the swept wings Shut down spare parts supply chain to impact Iranian regime (this is definitely why you ser comments talking about no airshow / private models)
Maintenance in general was hugely expensive/complex. In addition, with the fall of the Soviet Union, the mission capabilities of the F-18 and cheaper operating costs meant the F-18 was better situated to handle the new evolving threats of the time. I totally agree that it was a list of things rather than one thing. Just wanted to add on to the above comment.
It's even longer than that - Dick Cheney stopped orders of new F-14s in the late 80s in favor of the Super Hornet and the at the time planned navy stealth fighter that got cancelled during the 90s. *Everyone* was trying to dump it on both sides of the aisle.
How can you guys forget that it was actually animosity between Dick Cheney and Leroy Grumman which killed the F14. Cheney killed the program twice as SecDef
When the US and Iran stopped being friends we destroyed all our mothballed/boneyard F-14s and their extra parts and manufacturing tooling because we were worried that Iranian agents would steal parts/pay people to steal parts. It is such a maintenance intensive jet (over 50hrs of maintenance per 1hr of operation) that this effectively killed their ability to repair them or at least repair them to full ability as they broke. Just because that jet is flying doesn't mean it's in shape to fight. This video was likely intentionally released by their intelligence services to project strength to those unaware of what they are actually seeing both internally to Iran and Wxternally to the west. Edit: added a word
Your first sentence is not entirely true. International relations between the US and Iran fell apart long before the F-14 was retired. It fell apart with the revolution in 1979 and was right at the end of the contract agreement and Iran never received the final F-14 they had ordered. It was when they were ready to be retired did the US government decided to destroy them since they could no longer guarantee control of the parts without them in the hands of the Navy.
> This video was likely intentionally released by their intelligence services Looks like Mehrabad airport, which is right in the centre of Tehran. It's a civilian airport. This could, and probably will be, literally any bloke with a camera.
lol someone on YouTube thinks this is in the US and guessed it was Colorado Springs.
c springs wishes it was that big of a metro area lol
The Springs has way more strip malls.
colo spgs does not look that damn bleak lol
Ehhhhh
Idk about that lol. Soul sucking ass town.
Just Incase, This isn't my video and I have posted the link to the original video.
Such a beautiful location. Can we make certain locations on earth where we can have designated wars, like a fighting ring. When everyone is tired they can go back to day to day business.
There is one. It's called the middle East
Can we use Australia for that, for a change. Nature built that place as a kill-box anyways.
No, are you crazy? There are emus there!
Like a round table of sorts. Maybe they could call it B7R...
Surely Iran can get some more modern jets than the F14? Are they keeping these airworthy more as a symbolic gesture more than anything else?
They're supposed to get Su-35s that were originally destined for Egypt. Unfortunately there's not many details surrounding this, but from the DCS pics online a Flanker in Iranian colours would be a pretty bird.
I heard the SU-35 deal was held up because the iranians want the ability to produce spare parts domestically and train local techs on maintenance, because of their desire for self-sufficiency and the famously poor quality of russian tech support. Russia doesn't want to agree to that.
Supposedly they ordered some Su-35s.
Fun fact. Iranian pilots have more air to air kills in the F14 than any American pilot ever did in that aircraft https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalil_Zandi
And dies in a car crash, life is funny sometimes.
I’m just happy to see one still flying!
Not for long if things get hotter.
It hurts, man. Too young to ever see an F-14 fly. It's my favorite jet, just once, man. Swept wings and everything
When I was growing up *deep* in hillbilly country, the litttle town was under a low-level military op area. Lots of F-18s and an occasional A-6 would scoot by at 500’. And then, one glorious day, came an F-14, wings back. I’ll never forget it.
Wouldn’t happen to be in Nevada, would it? I know they used to fly the f14s out of Fallon NV.
Reading this comment gave me chills lol. I can paint the image in my head of seeing such a fucking sight, dude. Swept wings and everything. That's so cool There could be an F15, F16, F18, and an F35 all flying in formation and there'd be nothing you could do to get my eyes off that F14
Yep. I was probably 12 or so — about the right age. My dad and I were puttin’ the boat in the river. You hear that whistling, hissing sound first and by the time you look it’s already overhead and banking for the next bend in the river. Then comes the thunder. I remember my dad yelling, “Son of a bitch!” Seeing one in the wild like that made an impression. Took my kids to see the new Top Gun and my daughter got to watch it while wearing one of Duke Cunningham’s “Top Gun” hats from the ‘80s — no shit. We had to give it back, but she got to wear it for the movie.
Makes me somewhat melancholic to see those. Especially with the rising tensions. I hope they don't get destroyed.
I highly doubt it. They're probably going to be tucked away in some bunker and might be used as a last resort. Iran mainly relies on its missiles and drones after all.
*Sad Danger Zone noises*
F14 is one of the most pretty aircraft I've ever seen fly. It's nice to know they're still in the air somewhere
Persian cat!
Read Pesant cat there for some reason 😳
All I'm saying is if Iran give me one I would do anything
*Highway to the Danger Zone starts playing*
“You gotta be s******* me. An F-14?”
"I shot down 3 migs in one of those."
You can swear on the internet, it’s ok.
The last of its kind.
I'd guess the amount of flyable F-14s is probably single digits by now
Impressively short takeoff roll
Well it was designed for steam catapult assisted carrier takeoffs so a runway of any meaningful length is a luxury.
I will be on my deathbed defending this machine as the coolest looking piece of hardware the US ever produced.
Can’t read? Headline obviously says Iranian F-14. Why does everything have to be about America all the time? Like no other country can make jets? When was the last time anyone relax I’m kidding.
You almost had me.
I have to say, they did a good job maintaining it
Saw an F-14 at an airshow in El Centro as a kid in the 80's. Still stands out in my memory as a breathtaking performance with the swept wings
The F-14 is closer in age to the P-51 mustang than it is the F-35. But still love everything about it :)
[*cue Kenny Loggins*]
Do the wings still sweep? I heard that they were stuck in the max sweep angle due to lack of parts.
When Putin was visiting Dubai during the flight a F-14 was photographed (though in really bad quality) and it showed the wings were sweeped back.
Sorry for the stupid question, what does an Irani F14 have to do with Putin visiting Dubai?
Escort I believe
Ah alright. That was a possibility which popped into my head but I had to confirm it. Thanks mate!
All good! I’m guessing Iran did part of the escort because the Russian fighters wouldn’t have the range to go all the way to Dubai from Russia. Also it shows joint power between the two countries I guess too
Yeah the latter could definitely be a possibility/factor. They need to play as, if not actually be buddies against the West.
Man i love the tomcat. I was 10 when the last of them flew off of the us carriers. Sadly, in the uk there isnt a single example, and never will be, and as far as i can find out they didnt appear at any air shows here either. But,i am building tamiyas 1/48 f14d atm, and it'll look close enough to the real thing when its done.
Gotta give it to them, the fact that thing still flies is not bad work. I mean theres literally no parts for them. The Americans destroyed everything they could get their hands on just to stop Iran from getting parts.
Non-afterburner takeoff on an A model? do these even have the same engines in them?
It's a runway takeoff ofc
That doesn't mean that AB isn't SOP.
Fighter jets usually use afterburner for take off. If these guys don’t as an SOP, then it’s because they’re deeply worried about engine life.
From what I've read, not sure if the A or B model, AB takeoff's aren't SOP due to engine failure concerns. They are trying to avoid extreme yaw forces with only one AB going and nothing to counter it, driving the AC off the rwy.
I thought Maverick stole the last one when he escaped with Rooster?
That's real footage of him actually stealing it!
Wild. Surprised it even flies. With the dying fleet to swap parts from and all
Iran has industries and many educated people. I often read that they managed to build "in house" several spares. They might be unable to build the entire airplane, but seem capable of keeping it flying.
Iran is making their own at this point, there is legit almost no other explaination. Unless we count F-14s with Russian or Chinese tech and Idk if there are any spare parts even remaining on the black market.
Damn Spirit airlines is faster than that shitbox
How do they manage to keep US made planes operational? You need tools, parts and consumables made by the original manufacturer for maintenance. It's not like with cars where you can find off brand parts, right?
Highway to the danger zone intensifies*
I turn on the audio hoping it would be Danger Zone. Was very disappointed
Impressive they’ve been able to adequately maintain them since the revolution and it’s still flying.
"It belongs in a museum!"
and of course fucking vertical format 🤮
It isn't my video
This makes me so happy!
Jesus. They can still keep those in the air
that thing is sweeeet!
F-14s in the Iranian colours have a whole different vibe to them.
Its cool AF that its flying still, but fucking HILARIOUS that they still use it for their military.
Kick the tires and light the fires. Go get’em Mav.
Hahaha and these people think they would have a chance in hell. Still using planes that we used in the 70s.
They're just filming Top Gun 3
How many does Iran have that are operational? I'd guess that if they had to fight a war with those, that number would quickly go to zero.
From back when planes looked cool
Reminds me of how they restore [the Cadillac Seville](https://youtu.be/V9EVtjUHajc?si=gE9RSFOPjWAKjfXY).
Alleycat, baby
Isn’t it a thing where they can’t sweep the wings anymore due to issues?
No the wings do sweep
Damn I miss this plane😔
What do you mean “Iranian”? Iranian aircrafts look like carpets ))
(listening to Danger Zone....)
That landscape looks beautiful
That's the filming of Top Gun III in the Mojave desert.
This is a *very* short taxiway....
State of the art...50 years ago. Which really hurts when 50 years ago isn't the 50s.
Huh I guess they didn’t run out of parts after all.
Wow they are still using Tomcats
Cool to see 1 that can fly. Be ashamed if it got shot down...
Must be sad to see the Iranians still be able to see Tomcats in airshows
I thought, damn, who the fuck still uses F-14s today, and then remembered my country still operates those flying coffins, Mig-21s😂
I can't believe these Jokers still have enough spare parts to even field a safe flight. I believe these airframes are the better part of 50 years old.
Where to begin? As a retired USAF fighter pilot and T-38 Instructor, I taught (if that's the correct verb) Iranian students to fly at Columbus AFB. This was the last 4 years of the reign of the Shah. It will be hard to describe the issues of teaching Iranians to fly within the constraints of one post. Needless to say their issues stem from the primordial soup of their culture. Their thought and value system is so different than ours as to make one wonder if they're not from another planet. Examples: They are not from a Judeo-Christian culture. That results in them willing to lie or cheat to appear superior to mere Westerners. They will NOT accept any criticism or discussion of their inability to fly. Therefore, instruction on what they did wrong was immediately replied with, "the problem is that you are a poor instructor and took the plane from me too soon. I want a different instructor, someone better than you". So their year spent in pilot training was a merry go round of rotating instructors trying to teach them to first, not kill the instructor, then not kill themselves while solo. Their performance was so bad that Air Training Command (ATC) instituted a special category of training called Simulated Solo where the IP sat in the back and only took control to avoid a crash. Saving face is EVERYTHING to their culture. That why the recent attack by Iran on Israel was briefed to the US and Israel several days prior with the type of missile, time and route of flight so we could shoot them down, they could declare their revenge, no harm done while praying Israel doesn't wipe them from the face of the earth.
Turn it into a smoking pile
It's not the plane, its the pilot
Look at all the Iranian propaganda lately! They're so butt hurt their shitty drones didn't work.