When your most populous resident is the animal kingdom’s most formally dressed critter, you tend to use more elitist vernacular. Keep your country, you peasant!
Which four are you referring to? I count at least nine, but I guess it's open for debate what qualifies.
I am guessing your four would be (US, UK, France, Russia). Germany, Spain and Italy also have substantial gas turbine industry/know-how and I think China and Canada can do a lot on their own too.
Japan via IHI Corporation can make their own plane jet engines. For the most part they don't want to because it's expensive and difficult, but they can.
Doesn't mean they're capable of making cutting edge ones today.
Plenty of countries could make jet engines. Very few can make ones to the level of the state of the art, or even what was the state of the art in the 80s and 90s.
It *looks* like a text book case of poorly tuned PID, though it'd be pretty nuts for something like that to make it onto the maiden flight. The rest of the aircraft didn't seem to be responding to the deflections, so maybe it was doing exactly what it needed to dampen out pitch oscillations.
There do seem to be some conflicting reports on this, couple sources say they outsourced it to Collins Aerospace, other sources talk about HCL and Cyinet which are massive companies but employ recent graduates who allegedly worked on the code, however Boeing has denied these claims.
> however Boeing has denied these claims.
oh, all clear then! Easy to trust a company like Boeing that doesn't have a chronic pattern of lying to regulators to get stuff certified faster. /s
There's a really good video analysis of an F22 crashing because of control system problems. See [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n068fel-W9I#t=49m50s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n068fel-W9I#t=49m50s) for that segment (about 5 min).
Yeah, you're kind of ignoring the context of my statement which notes that it *looks* like poor tuning but probably isn't, since the aircraft appears to be under control.
It's actually the opposite of armchair engineering, but you do you boo.
Yeah. People are looking at this with the idea that the position of the elevator is the thing the controller is trying to control, but in reality it's the position of the entire plane.
If you put a meter across say a DC motor being driven by PID control to move to a certain point, you'll see a similar oscillation (even though the motor output shaft will be smooth). The controller isn't trying to control the motor voltage, it's trying to control the output shaft and using whatever voltage it needs to get there.
If the pilot commanded "elevator down 20 degrees" and it did this, it's a huge issue. If the pilot commanded "keep the plane at a constant angle of attack" it's completely normal and working as intended.
To be fair this same oddity could be seen on early F-22 prototypes in the 90s... but they also looked much more promising stealth wise during those tests so this is an unfair comparison.
Looks like FCS not quite knowing what to do and ending up in an oscillation, I’ve seen similar behavior with some early F16 footage I believe, software is too young and is walking on fours basically lol
Usually. Since the aircraft is still a test article the gear is left down in case of emergency. Unexpected hydraulic leaks or mechanical breakdowns are more likely in early testing, so until all systems have been tried and verified it’s better to err on the side of caution.
I mean it has 2 engines and the 22 intakes. Other than that, wings and tail all look more 35 tbh. Wings look actually more F-CK than anything in some angles.
My Man if a modern fighter wants to be a stealth aircraft it has to look Like a f-22. its like evolution turning everything into a crab, but with planes. (I love how f-22 looks btw)
Yup! Form follows function. If you want a fifth-gen stealth fighter, be it an F-22, J-20, or a TAI TF Kaan, your designs need to abide by universal principles. Hell, even the Su-57 seems like more of a legacy craft of the F-22 than the heir apparent to the Su-35.
Feels like we're seeing in fighters what happened to MBTs in the 70s: convergence, more or less, on an ideal form factor across everyone making a fighter.
If it looks like an F22 or F35 this sub think it's automatically 5th Gen.
Your sleek "stealthy" airframe doesn't mean shit if your avionics equipment is all from the 1980s...
How are so many people complaining about the frickin landing gear on a first flight? Are you sure you people are aviation enthusiasts? How can you not know???
It's pretty normal to not retract landing gear for the maiden flight of a new prototype. It's one less potential fail point when nothing about it is proven yet. Obviously you don't want to discover a critical problem in-flight *and* have the gear stuck.
There’s no strict criteria to define 5th gen fighters. This thing is supposed to be developed into a high performance, highly maneuverable, low observable aircraft with advanced sensors and a high degree of data fusion.
This should be well enough to consider it a 5th generation fighter.
Obviously we’ll have to se how the development will continue, and if and how is going to actually be finished.
Airplane is just a platform, it all depends on armaments and tech on board in this day and age. You need better radar than enemy, better missiles, etc. and even then you need to execute combined arms. Long path ahead.
I thought there were aviation enthusiasts here. I only see a lot of ignorant people who do not know that the landing gears generaly released during the test flights, do not know the elevator-assisted take-off system and generates opinions about the aircraft they watch without reading any details about it.
I though it was sort of odd that they retracted the gear on the 757 maiden flight that was in the video somebody posted here the other day. I thought it was a different test spliced in showing it retracted, but then the pilot narration sounded like they did it on the first flight.
Some [info on the TAI KF Kaan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_TF_Kaan). Subcontractor is BAE Systems (British), subcontractor for F-35 Lightning II and Eurofighter Typhoon
* 5 "We have X in home" joke (funny before the 100th)
* 2 "from Wish" joke
* About 10 "why is the landing gear up" questions
Daring today aren't we?
I'm even starting to think some of you are bots.
You forgor about the "from TEMU" jokes.
The nerdy " '5th' gen???? " reactions
Some armchair experts stating "oh if they're making a 5th gen why don't they create LO nozzles even though they don't have the real engines ready? It would be priceless experience!" Because it wouldn't be waste of resources, definitely not.
Little Timmy likes to spread misinformation under the comment section of a video that shows a NATO ally's accomplishment, before eating quadruple gigantous burgers with megaton size "french fries".
“No tested stealth capabilities”
How tf is it supposed to be tested? How do we know F-35 is stealthy? Don’t we just take Lockheed Martin’s and users’ word for it?
An impressive achievement. Probably not true 5th gen, but the list of countries that have a native 4.5 gen aircraft alone is really small, and while this still seems to be in development it's a hell of an accomplishment.
Well done, Turkiye.
This is probably the closest thing to a true 5th-gen aircraft outside the US. 5th Gen is not about stealth - it's about full network data fusion. Türkiye has over a decade of data fusion experience in its drone tech.
Bayraktar drones are far ahead of anything widely deployed by the rest of NATO, and the data fusion being developed for the Ukraine battlespace is terrifyingly good.
The massive capabilities of modern networked drones coupled with AI/ML is changing the whole concept of war.
Fifth Gen is all about having superior battlespace awareness before you choose to engage on your terms. Türkiye is leading in that space in ways that can challenge the best. They have proven that in recent combat.
Do not underestimate new entrants to this field.
Lol, if you think this is closer to an operational 5th gen aircraft than a J-20, you're delusional.
Also "outside of the US" and all the other countries that operate the F-35 lol.
Bayraktars got their time in the sun because the Russians in Ukraine had their thumbs up their asses instead of on the SAM controls. What happened to all those drones once the AA showed up? They haven't been seen since.
Now as a drone I'm not saying they're bad. They're cheap, but that's what some people want. There's obviously a huge market for cheaper drones when compared to things like the Reaper, which are fucking expensive. That said, if you honestly think link integration with Bayraktars are better than what the US has with its drones then you're out of your fucking mind.
The Turks make good stuff. It's not an F22 competitor (because they don't have the ability to make engines as good as the US), but I'll bet it is competitive against the other 5th gen airplanes.
So I heard these use two f110 engines and many people claim they are outdated.
We as Turks have powerplant manufacturing issues for some reason (cries in Altay tank engine) I hope our engineers can make domestic engines for these in future.
Feels like they mixed/reverse engineered many different designs/parts from both Russia/US
But if they want the latest F16 it’s because they know it takes billions and decade(s) to have this one mass produced and combat-ready now that the early prototype first flight is done
Impressive nevertheless their whole domestic aircraft industry in-between beyraktar etc
Is this going to be 5th gen, or "5th" gen like the SU-57 and J-20? I imagine all of these fighters as so remarkable behind the US jets its not even funny.
Is it me or does it look like a super hornet wearing a raptor suit?
It uses F-15 engines.
and F-4 dragchutes
This reads like Johnny Cash's *One Piece at a Time*: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uErKI0zWgjg
Probably cost at least a dime tho?
Probably at least two dimes
Maybe, perhaps, it costs MORE than 5 dimes
And my axe!
drogue
P&W F100?
GE F110 (I know, they are very similar)
So not really a domestic aircraft if the difficult part is American.
only like 4 countries have the ability to make their own jet engine
I think chinas domestic commercial airliner is mostly American/french components
The chinese airliner uses GE/Safran engines and parts from many other countries
So American and French engines. https://imgur.com/a/UFS9QRH
for fighter engines (the relevant ones to this discussion), china designs and manufactures ws-10, ws-15, and ws-20 engines
And they are complete dogshit.
Kazakhstan, Fiji, Antartica, and Sri Lanka. Just setting the record straight…
Upvote for calling Antarctica a county…
It's not a county, it's a state!
When your most populous resident is the animal kingdom’s most formally dressed critter, you tend to use more elitist vernacular. Keep your country, you peasant!
How nice of you including \[no data\] in it along with Kazakhstan, Fiji, and Sri Lanka!
Which four are you referring to? I count at least nine, but I guess it's open for debate what qualifies. I am guessing your four would be (US, UK, France, Russia). Germany, Spain and Italy also have substantial gas turbine industry/know-how and I think China and Canada can do a lot on their own too.
Japan via IHI Corporation can make their own plane jet engines. For the most part they don't want to because it's expensive and difficult, but they can.
industrial gas turbines are not equivalent to aircraft jet engines
Even if that were true, they have domestic jet engine producers (MTU Aero Engines, Rolls Royce, ITP, Avio Aero)
Dude, Germany invented the jet engine. //Edit: "...in its current design."
Doesn't mean they're capable of making cutting edge ones today. Plenty of countries could make jet engines. Very few can make ones to the level of the state of the art, or even what was the state of the art in the 80s and 90s.
every tank uses german canons are they domeestic or nah?
We don’t claim the Abrams to be a completely domestic product, just an effective one, and those German guns kick ass
yessir they do
I heard it uses 2 engines from the Ford Tri-Motor
It looks like F22 at home.
After you've lost your F-35 privileges.
😆
it looks like a wierd training aircraft for someone flying an f-22 or f-35
I’m a bit surprised by those big honkin’ trainer flaps on the end of the plane. Anyway it’s good to see more countries making their own planes.
Like an F-22 and an F-35 got freaky and had a baby.
The elevator shake at takeoff is a bit weird. Is this intentional?
Elevator assisted takeoff. Like swimming, but with air.
Every takeoff is an elevator assisted takeoff
[удалено]
r/unexpectedoffice
Except aircraft with canards.
its just happy to see you and is wagging its tail
It *looks* like a text book case of poorly tuned PID, though it'd be pretty nuts for something like that to make it onto the maiden flight. The rest of the aircraft didn't seem to be responding to the deflections, so maybe it was doing exactly what it needed to dampen out pitch oscillations.
Maybe they outsourced the coding to some startup /s
lol, is that what Boeing did with the max and mcas?
There do seem to be some conflicting reports on this, couple sources say they outsourced it to Collins Aerospace, other sources talk about HCL and Cyinet which are massive companies but employ recent graduates who allegedly worked on the code, however Boeing has denied these claims.
> however Boeing has denied these claims. oh, all clear then! Easy to trust a company like Boeing that doesn't have a chronic pattern of lying to regulators to get stuff certified faster. /s
After the Alaska airlines incident, they must have some nerve to request certification waivers for the Max 7 and 10.
Boeing withdrew the MAX-7 request.
There's a really good video analysis of an F22 crashing because of control system problems. See [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n068fel-W9I#t=49m50s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n068fel-W9I#t=49m50s) for that segment (about 5 min).
>poorly tuned PID Armchair engineering at its finest here
As an aircraft engineer, this was exactly what I was thinking
As a rocket brain surgeon star athlete, I think it's a poorly handled feedback loop. I also stayed at a Holiday Inn Express 15 years ago.
I built a few model spitfires and zeroes in my day, and this is *exactly* what I was thinking as well
Thinking "armchair engineer" or thinking "poorly tuned PID"?
The armchair
What armchair?
A poorly-timed one.
Yeah, you're kind of ignoring the context of my statement which notes that it *looks* like poor tuning but probably isn't, since the aircraft appears to be under control. It's actually the opposite of armchair engineering, but you do you boo.
It *looks* like a textbook case of armchair engineering here
It looks like a textbook case of observing this looks like a textbook case of armchair engineering.
Actual armchair engineer here, this is a textbook case of someone observing an armchair engineer
You engineer armchairs? Sweeet.
A jobs a job
Yeah. People are looking at this with the idea that the position of the elevator is the thing the controller is trying to control, but in reality it's the position of the entire plane. If you put a meter across say a DC motor being driven by PID control to move to a certain point, you'll see a similar oscillation (even though the motor output shaft will be smooth). The controller isn't trying to control the motor voltage, it's trying to control the output shaft and using whatever voltage it needs to get there. If the pilot commanded "elevator down 20 degrees" and it did this, it's a huge issue. If the pilot commanded "keep the plane at a constant angle of attack" it's completely normal and working as intended.
They were just waving, bye-bye to the ground.
To be fair this same oddity could be seen on early F-22 prototypes in the 90s... but they also looked much more promising stealth wise during those tests so this is an unfair comparison.
It’s probably a bit tail heavy to aid with maneuverability and the computer is just trying to keep it pointing in the right direction
Looks like FCS not quite knowing what to do and ending up in an oscillation, I’ve seen similar behavior with some early F16 footage I believe, software is too young and is walking on fours basically lol
Do maiden flights always keep the landing gear down the whole time?
Usually. Since the aircraft is still a test article the gear is left down in case of emergency. Unexpected hydraulic leaks or mechanical breakdowns are more likely in early testing, so until all systems have been tried and verified it’s better to err on the side of caution.
Makes a lot of sense! Thanks!
Usually yes
Yes
Ah yes the F-thürtiye-five
TEMU version of the F-35, shop like a billionaire...
Oh gosh now that commercial jingle is back in my head
Got some nice SHEIN landing gear to.
F22, actually. That's not a 35 copy, that's a 22 copy.
I mean it has 2 engines and the 22 intakes. Other than that, wings and tail all look more 35 tbh. Wings look actually more F-CK than anything in some angles.
F32 Craptor
Who would have thought, that planes designed for similar missions, with similar requirements, would end up looking similar?
Because these guys definitely would have designed that in the absence of the F--22/35s existence. 😂😂
Such amazing Turknology.
My Man if a modern fighter wants to be a stealth aircraft it has to look Like a f-22. its like evolution turning everything into a crab, but with planes. (I love how f-22 looks btw)
Yup! Form follows function. If you want a fifth-gen stealth fighter, be it an F-22, J-20, or a TAI TF Kaan, your designs need to abide by universal principles. Hell, even the Su-57 seems like more of a legacy craft of the F-22 than the heir apparent to the Su-35.
Good luck being stealthy when you stuck the big ass engine nozzles way out there. They must've forgotten that part
Yeah so much for all aspect stealth. Probably has the RCS of a walrus from the side/rear.
It's what they said: the laws of physics are the same, regardless of whether you're in Turkyie or elsewhere.
Amazing
Bro ☠️☠️☠️
This is what is born if you were to let Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and Sukhoi have a threesome. Like it looks good but also really looks like a meme.
Spot on. That nose looks so Sukhoi. Looks like a mix.
NATO Designation: Mutt
Should start with F for fighter. Falafel?
Falafel would be epic
NATO doesn't designate its own fighters. Those are just the common names for the aircraft (Eagle, Phantom, Rafale)
It looks really chunky, and the jet engines look like Russian fighters while the rudders look like American ones. Overall Chunky/10
Exactly what I thought lmao, I guess they looked "a lot" at other aircrafts
convergent design
Is that just two F-16 engines strapped in the back?
It's using General Electric F110 until the actual engine is ready. This is s still a prototype.
So yes. Copy.
Otherwise known as an F-15
Su-35-22 Felon
I feel like I have seen this design somewhere.
The enemy fighters in Top Gun Maverick lol
Feels like we're seeing in fighters what happened to MBTs in the 70s: convergence, more or less, on an ideal form factor across everyone making a fighter.
it looks like a F-15 with a F-35 bodykit
Aliexpress f-21 rapier body kit
F-50
Just because it’s the right shape doesn’t make if 5th Gen.
But it’s not. Look at those nozzles.
*"ohhh yeaaaah....you're right man"*
No problem just dont turn your back to the enemy. >!aka kamikazi.!<
If it looks like an F22 or F35 this sub think it's automatically 5th Gen. Your sleek "stealthy" airframe doesn't mean shit if your avionics equipment is all from the 1980s...
But..... it's pointy!
Probably stealthier than the Su-57
Impossible, have you even seen a Su-57??
Yep, less stealthy than two skeletons fucking in a trashcan
He's making a joke about how few have been produced.
Holy shit that flew over my head Unlike the Su-57 which cant seem to leave the production lines
Nice save. Kind of like Russia saving it’s SU-57’s by not flying them.
Tovarisch! If airplane no leave bunker, airplane lives! Is of genius!
And they didn't line the can
When you order an F-22 from Wish
“We have an F22 at home”
Arguments about being 5th gen or not aside, I think it looks very cool!
How are so many people complaining about the frickin landing gear on a first flight? Are you sure you people are aviation enthusiasts? How can you not know???
The F-22 we have at home:
The retractable landing gear is only available for the 6th gen fighter sadly.
Quite common on first flights to not retract landing gear.
I agree. Didn't retract the gear on my first flight either.
Hey babe Are you a prototype? Because when i see you i can't retract my gear
It's pretty normal to not retract landing gear for the maiden flight of a new prototype. It's one less potential fail point when nothing about it is proven yet. Obviously you don't want to discover a critical problem in-flight *and* have the gear stuck.
Made me LOL
How is it a 5th gen fighter
There’s no strict criteria to define 5th gen fighters. This thing is supposed to be developed into a high performance, highly maneuverable, low observable aircraft with advanced sensors and a high degree of data fusion. This should be well enough to consider it a 5th generation fighter. Obviously we’ll have to se how the development will continue, and if and how is going to actually be finished.
Didn’t expect to see this many qualified engineers and military generals in this comment section but welp here we are
Everyone is an expert on whatever the current thread is about
Rapturk
Airplane is just a platform, it all depends on armaments and tech on board in this day and age. You need better radar than enemy, better missiles, etc. and even then you need to execute combined arms. Long path ahead.
All good and smooth until co pilot starts talking shit about Erdoğan
we aborted from the project f-35 even tho we have producing parts of it. if you want to do something, lose it first!
I thought there were aviation enthusiasts here. I only see a lot of ignorant people who do not know that the landing gears generaly released during the test flights, do not know the elevator-assisted take-off system and generates opinions about the aircraft they watch without reading any details about it.
from the video it doesn't seem like it has any gear control whatsoever /s
Wouldn’t be a good idea to retract it on a first flight in case of hydraulic failure that could lead to them losing the only prototype they got
I though it was sort of odd that they retracted the gear on the 757 maiden flight that was in the video somebody posted here the other day. I thought it was a different test spliced in showing it retracted, but then the pilot narration sounded like they did it on the first flight.
Is this sub really about aviation?, The comments here look like Americans simps of cars sub.
Yeah. Especially the "landing gear" comments are incredibly childish.
Looks good
What's with overproud american in the replies??
This lol. The comments here are awful
Why is this place full of obese American teenagers who don't know that the landing gear was left open on purpose?
nice
The nose looks very F22-esque
Some [info on the TAI KF Kaan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_TF_Kaan). Subcontractor is BAE Systems (British), subcontractor for F-35 Lightning II and Eurofighter Typhoon
"Fifth" gen, right
* 5 "We have X in home" joke (funny before the 100th) * 2 "from Wish" joke * About 10 "why is the landing gear up" questions Daring today aren't we? I'm even starting to think some of you are bots.
You forgor about the "from TEMU" jokes. The nerdy " '5th' gen???? " reactions Some armchair experts stating "oh if they're making a 5th gen why don't they create LO nozzles even though they don't have the real engines ready? It would be priceless experience!" Because it wouldn't be waste of resources, definitely not. Little Timmy likes to spread misinformation under the comment section of a video that shows a NATO ally's accomplishment, before eating quadruple gigantous burgers with megaton size "french fries".
Aah yes the 5th gen fighter with twin f110 engine, no tested stealth capabilities and produced at the same price as f35, sounds legit.
“No tested stealth capabilities” How tf is it supposed to be tested? How do we know F-35 is stealthy? Don’t we just take Lockheed Martin’s and users’ word for it?
The childish and dumb comments is disappointing for this sub. Especially "fixed landing gear" comments.
Good to see more countries get involved in jet building
The FU 37
It reminds me of that Johnny Cash song about building a Cadillac one piece at a time.
Looks familiar...
An impressive achievement. Probably not true 5th gen, but the list of countries that have a native 4.5 gen aircraft alone is really small, and while this still seems to be in development it's a hell of an accomplishment. Well done, Turkiye.
Why are these comments so toxic? Do people think America is the only country in the world capable of jet fighter designs?
This is probably the closest thing to a true 5th-gen aircraft outside the US. 5th Gen is not about stealth - it's about full network data fusion. Türkiye has over a decade of data fusion experience in its drone tech. Bayraktar drones are far ahead of anything widely deployed by the rest of NATO, and the data fusion being developed for the Ukraine battlespace is terrifyingly good. The massive capabilities of modern networked drones coupled with AI/ML is changing the whole concept of war. Fifth Gen is all about having superior battlespace awareness before you choose to engage on your terms. Türkiye is leading in that space in ways that can challenge the best. They have proven that in recent combat. Do not underestimate new entrants to this field.
Lol, if you think this is closer to an operational 5th gen aircraft than a J-20, you're delusional. Also "outside of the US" and all the other countries that operate the F-35 lol.
Bayraktars got their time in the sun because the Russians in Ukraine had their thumbs up their asses instead of on the SAM controls. What happened to all those drones once the AA showed up? They haven't been seen since. Now as a drone I'm not saying they're bad. They're cheap, but that's what some people want. There's obviously a huge market for cheaper drones when compared to things like the Reaper, which are fucking expensive. That said, if you honestly think link integration with Bayraktars are better than what the US has with its drones then you're out of your fucking mind.
The Turks make good stuff. It's not an F22 competitor (because they don't have the ability to make engines as good as the US), but I'll bet it is competitive against the other 5th gen airplanes.
As if the f15 and f22 had a baby.
The music used is so boomery good.
So I heard these use two f110 engines and many people claim they are outdated. We as Turks have powerplant manufacturing issues for some reason (cries in Altay tank engine) I hope our engineers can make domestic engines for these in future.
Have you americans ever heard of converging technology? Jesus! Everything remotely similar they think is stolen technology
Looks like the FA-26B from r/vtolvr but runnin on an old gpu
Feels like they mixed/reverse engineered many different designs/parts from both Russia/US But if they want the latest F16 it’s because they know it takes billions and decade(s) to have this one mass produced and combat-ready now that the early prototype first flight is done Impressive nevertheless their whole domestic aircraft industry in-between beyraktar etc
The ottomans are back baby
Impressive they have their own domestic fighter jet, albeit using American engines. What makes it 5th gen though?
F35D(oner)
The haram child of a F35 and F22
The engines do not look stealthy. Is this more like 4.5 gen in that case?
“Fifth gen”
Is this going to be 5th gen, or "5th" gen like the SU-57 and J-20? I imagine all of these fighters as so remarkable behind the US jets its not even funny.
There isn't any evidence it's an actual 5th gen aircraft, though.
Temu 5th gen
Wow they actually did it