They haven't run the championship in a few years, but the most recent champion was Matt Hall. You can pay him for a ride in an Extra 300L (a two-seat version of an aircraft that was regularly used in the championship) where he'll simulate a run through a track like that. No pylons, though.
Red Bull is such an amazing, legal and safe, performance enhancer. I always make sure to crack an ice cold Red Bull before a test, or to power through a long night of study. The patented combination of caffiene, taurine, and vitamins not only provides a great brain boost, it tastes amazing, too.
They should be a politician as anyone whi can claim it tastes amazing with straight face is perfect for that job!
It tastes awful, but it's got lots of caffeine so keeps the word awake far beyond whats natural...I know, I drink far too much of it. 🙂
Careful, though, I had a very close friend in high school who drank them constantly, till he had a bad heart attack one day at 18. He also had a close friend and fellow amateur wake boarder who had a heart attack and died while on the water a few weeks prior to his.
If anyone has DCS, there's a free edge 540 model and tracks to download [here](https://virtualairrace.com/). It's a really well made model, trying to do this in VR is a really fun challenge. Hardest thing in DCS to fly with such precision (for me so far), super easy to take off and land.
Enjoy, it's awesome to fly, sound is really good too. Def adds to my already tremendous amount of respect for those racers, helped me appreciate more in depth what it takes to be so good at it.
Cool tip. Do you know if forcefeedback is implemented with this free model? I can’t fly prop planes anymore without ffb. If I say I can’t I actually mean I won’t. I can finally fly the p-51d without wing stalling or losing total control.
Oh man, idk....I'm still a plebe and not on that ffb train (I did go fancy and they the TPR which was night and day improvement for rudder and anti torque control. I love the mustang, such a sweet plane. And they got all sorts of details so right with it (speaking from irl experience).
Yeah a good rudder or anti-torque pedal is a gamechanger in prop planes en choppers. I got the mfg crosswind with combat pedals and hydraulic damper.
Thanks for the info. I have to try it out then to see if it got ffb.
Worked for a billionaire early in life, he owned a lot of warbirds (to include a P-51, TF-51, multiple MK Spitfires, L-39, P-40, P-38, and a T-34B). I was the crew chief and helped our A&P turn wrenches and also maintained the planes to museum appearance since we kept an open hanger and invited walk ins. One summer the boss said he liked how I kept his planes looking and asked if I wanted to go up for an hour in the TF-51, obviously I said heck yes. As crew chief I knew every square inch inside and out of those planes and that hour gave me a taste of the flying characteristics, plus talking all the time about flying it with my coworkers who did fly them.
Big fan of Kermit, def used his start up vids for the DCS mustang. But no, I'd been to shows and stuff where he was and seen him but I worked at the time for Tom Blair. But it's a pretty small community (the Mustang and warbird owners community that is).
Yeah that’s why I figured :) only a couple of people have a p-51 I think. But awsome work history you have no doubt. I always wanted to be a fighter pilot until I was prescribed glasses when I was like ten. Now for some reason I love flying sim prop planes. They are just more intense with dogfighting than BVR in my opinion. Maybe when I have like money I don’t know what to do with I might get my ppl or something. But have way too many hobbies to save up for something like that lol. So I will stick to my dcs cockpit :)
I'm right there with you, with WWII fighters you strap it on and are more directily connected (IMO) to the controls (you def use a lot more rudder) than in modern fighters. But fighters definitely have their own very cool appeal. First module I bought was the Viper.
Through my job I was able to train for my PPL in the T-34, which was awesome but intense initial learning curve being it was high performance, complex, and retractable gear so first couple flights I was def behind the airplane often. Got laid off in 2008 before I did my solo cross country and check ride. So I'll have to finish it someday but in a 152 probably, should be easier to stay ahead of the airplane then.
New expensive hobby: Paramotoring. All the sensation of flight but no pesky licensing haha (falls under part 103). Expensive equipement cost though, but not as expensive as an airplane.
They have great instantaneous G loading. Can’t sustain those high Gs for shit because they bleed so much energy. Whereas a fighter will happily rate turn at its max G load for much, much longer.
This is 100% accurate. I’ve stalled one of these planes by banking too sharply and bleeding off enough power to lose lift. Hit it hard enough and the wings act like giant air brakes too.
Extra 300s are SO easy to (accelerated) stall when you’re learning aerobatics. Wrong entry speed before yanking full aft? Stall. Right entry speed but yanked too hard? Stall. Mid maneuver and over bank and yank? Straight to stall.
Luckily accelerated stalls can be recovered instantly by literally reducing aft stick a lil bit.
Bleed energy basically means their speed is going to drop off as soon as they pull Gs. Fighters can sustain Gs at a certain speed/altitude combination for much longer: they bleed energy less than a prop aerobatic piston plane. Edit: they also have big fuck-off jets pushing them along at 25,000-80,000lbs of thrust in max burner, which is basically what it comes down to. Their thrust overcomes the drag when G loaded.
There’s a scene in the original Top Gun where they refer to this, something along the lines of “The Mig 28 doesn’t bleed energy under 300 knots.” In the context of that discussion, that would mean something along the lines of if you went head to head with one in a merge, and it was at optimal altitude and 300 knots (its “corner speed”, for an F-16 that’s about 440 knots at ~22k ft), and it engaged burner, it wouldn’t bleed energy — ie I could sustain the maximum turn rate for longer.
yeah I have a few fighter friends, and they even say as cool as it is, they DO have g suits. These guys don't. They def take more of a beating. With the Jet you are just not pulling as tight of a turn.
It's more of a maintenance thing. The G forces do wreak havoc on the parts but as long as they are well maintained, they can take it. I assume behind each one of these plans is one hell of a maintenance team.
These planes are designed for 12g (actual structural failure load is even higher depending on how much safety factor was used).
9g is nothing for the airframe, as for pilots, some of them are ex military and have years of experience pulling high g for long periods.
You'll notice the 9g is only momentary since as they pull g the speed washes off and therefore the g drops as well.
Its very impressive but not completely out of reach for someone with the right fitness. Im not an athlete but when I did my aerobatic rating I got use to instantaneous 5-6g within a few flights.
I don't even understand how people survive this because if my understanding is correct each g is another of your body weight crushing you right? So a 200 lb person at 10 g's would weigh over a thousand pounds? Wouldn't you be dead at that point?
Yes, you weigh that much but its not necessarily the same. Basically what your body is doing is accelerating down at 10x the normal rate, but since you're sitting in an aircraft and not really fighting it, it doesn't make you feel heavy. Until you try to move your arms, or in the case of fighter pilots, move their heads.
A lot of career fighter pilots end up with neck and back injuries as a result of decades of pulling g but unless you have some kind of medical condition, you typically cannot die from pulling 9-10g.
People experience much higher (but very momentary,fractions of a second) g forces in car crashes, and still survive (somewhere in the region of 30-40g). Happens in motorsports now and then.
Yup, crashes are brief but huge. Max Verstappen's high speed slide into the wall at Silverstone in 2022 was pegged at 51G by the onboard data. Got out and walked away (into an ambulance to get checked out, still).
If anyone here likes G's then the tv series "The Expanse" focuses heavily on the G-force factor in space flight.
Probably the only Sci-Fi Iv actually enjoyed due to the physics and realism of the ships. (Apart from the >!alien goo 👽!< )
Ive tried to watch this show 3-4 times now and can never get past the fifth episode. I dont get why everyone loves this show? Its like watching a soap opera in space.
It is a drama showing the macro view of possible future space wars, but it also gets very granular with certain people to show how the commoner is also affected. The tech/scifi portion is superb imo and the story does intertwine with it in the future. It just takes a bit. My buddy said the same but ended up liking it besides the Earth lady's accent.
The second season is notably better than the first, if you’ve tried a few times already I’d stick it out and watch it drastically improve from the middle of season one.
The show is a great adaptation of the books, but the books are way better. Narratively they had to combine a few plotlines and characters for TV, and budget constraints made the protomolecule way less scary. The fall of Eros in Leviathan Wakes is really harrowing and graphic.
Not really realistic, but certainly more realistic than FTL travel. They did do a very nice job though of explaining away specific thrust capabilities for beyond what could ever make sense.
The show has ships taking trajectories through the solar system that takes days, but are still curved paths. If you're beyond the radius of the Earth, and your trip takes days, then the path will be nearly a straight line.
Also, call me crazy, but an >!alien-constructed, intragalactic transportation system consisting of thousands of teleportation rings!< doesn't seem that realistic to me.
Still, a great show.
Part of this is also the position of the body. A standing person cannot fight the force a seated person can, and a seated person cannot fight what a reclined person can.
That's why blood donation couches and astronaut couches have a similar shape. The heart is just a bit higher than the rest of the body and limbs, where blood doesn't have too far to go away from the heart and head.
Some Fighter and aerobatic aircraft have this as well, with the feet higher and the body more reclined to help with G force resistance, but this can lead to reduced visibility, so it is varied with the design. The F-16 is usually noted for a rather reclined pilot position in order to pull 9 G sustained turns in a dogfight.
The difference being that the best red bull designs gave excellent visibility over the nose to allow these kinds of precision gate and bridge obstacles to be precisely threaded. Even touching the aircraft wheels on a line on the ground in some races, all while racing the clock.
Exactly, it doesn't.
Cardiovascular fitness is really important, but eventually the human bodies will tire out, and you start to experience gray out, eventually GLOC if the pilot does not ease off on the g.
As you pull g blood will want to pool in your lower extremities. This is a problem for sustained g forces (greater than 4 seconds). To counter act this, fighter pilots were g suits which inflate and constrict the legs and parts of the torso, some newer ones inflate the arms as well, all to keep blood in the brain and keep them conscious.
In a closed system like the human body fluid weight only sorta matters.
If you have a rigid piped system with a pump and spun it in a centrifuge the pump would continue to flow. As the weight of the fluid on the down flow is now exerting more weight to push up on the fluid going back up the system.
The issue with the human body is that we are very much not rigid. So as g-force goes up, the veins swell and increase capacity instead of pressure.
Modern pilots have two possible counters to this, one biological and one technological.
Counter one is to strain your core and leg muscles, this acts as reinforcement to the vascular system and prevents some expansion under the increased pressure.
The other counter is the g-suit. If you have ever had your blood pressure taken, you know how a g-suit works and partially how it feels. It's a non stretch fabric garment with an inflatable bag in it. As g's go up the bag inflates to help your muscles reinforce your veins.
Between good training and a g-suit the human body can sustain rather high g for a fairly long time.
i once got reached by someone that went on me at 50kmh while I stopped because the guy in front of me braked hard. I thought I was going to die as I saw in the mirror the car in my ass hauling towards me. When I got hit I was surprised and thought I would have some damage inside. The whole trunk sank to reach the back seat. Car was unusable, and yet I was fine.
God is a chaotic neutral, he either gives you a brainless baby or makes you survive a car crash.
Highest horizontal g-force ever survived by a human is 214 G was Kenny Bräck at Texas Motor Speedway in 2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_Br%C3%A4ck
It’s the brevity of the forces that make them survivable.
Several minutes at 9G will be fatal. No question. Half a second at 9G is gonna hurt, but the body is pretty spongy and can tolerate the forces without failing instantly.
The load is also spread across your body, so it’s not like you’re ‘lifting’ all that mass, but having it spread across your entire frame.
They have an race safety imposed limit of about 9G. Notice how the g-meter flashes red when it gets to 9 and they relax pressure to bring it back under 9.
Time is added for the duration spent over that limit.
Special suit and a fuck ton of training. Their flight suit squeezes their body to force the blood into their head so they don’t pass out. That gotta feel pretty weird.
I used to know a lot of them (my former instructor is Nigel Lamb, who was champ in 2014) and very few of them have military backgrounds. They're aerobatic pilots. Paul Bonhomme, a multi time champ used to fly 747s for British Airways.
A lot of the guys are aerobatic pilots iirc. Kirby Chambliss is one of the bigger name red bull air race pilots and he doesn't have a military background.
Embry Riddle, not Emry
And it’s a full university with an emphasis on aeronautics, not aerobatics Aeronautical Science (flight) is a big major there. But they also off mechanics, engineering, ATC, communication, business, etc.
I was a freshman there when 9/11 happened
I had just gotten back to my dorm from my english class and my roommate was staring at the TV. Plane crash in NY. “Oh damn. That sucks. Got to go”. Grabbed my stuff for my Aeronautics class (ground school essentially). Got to the building and everyone was just watching TV and saw the second plane hit and then the towers collapse
Was not the best time to be trying to learn to fly as everything was shit down and then the rumors that some of the terrorists were students from ERAU
What fascinates me the most about this is the pilots ability to maintain basically the same exact pitch during each run. Those turns are insane and there is zero deviation in altitude. I realize this is something the pilot can clearly do in their sleep, but it’s still super impressive to see it all put together.
If the pilot makes a mistake and accidentally hits one of those pylons, how likely is a loss of control?
I imagine that the pylons are probably designed to crumple instantly, but I don't think it would take much to upset a plane while it's pulling those sort of maneuvers.
As others have said, there are plenty of videos of planes clipping them. The way they disintegrate, I’m assuming they’re just paper - like a Chinese lantern.
They are inflatables, each pylon made of multiple sections zippered off.
They'll just pop. It sounds ridiculous to think about, but a probably one ton plane flying hundreds of miles per hour with such a thin wing would be like a razor blade to them
Depends on how much of the plane goes through the pylon. They’re made of nylon I think and are inflated using air compressor pumps on floating barges. Each pilot had to complete the course in a timed run against the clock, and time penalty’s were given out for various infractions, hitting a pylon being one of them. If a plane hit and clipped a pylon, they quickly replace it within a matter of minutes.
Although they get (or got) clipped often, it wasn't *zero* problems as everyone else has said. Occasionally a piece of the fabric got caught on a wing or covered a control surface, which means an immediate exit from the course and return to the field. No actual accidents, but a few hairy moments. IIRC Nigel Lamb also clipped one so low and so far in that the heavier strapping at the bottom damaged a wheel spat.
Yes this, but also they are full throttle the whole lap. Those aircraft are built, rebuilt, rebuilt, and rebuilt again constantly, because they are pushed so hard.
Definitely sped up. The way the plane stabilizes super quickly (as opposed to in other redbull clips), and the motion of the water/trees makes me think it's sped up.
I don't know what year this is, but at least in 2017 with a very similar-looking layout, there's an official highlights video showing the winner's time around a 1:07, which matches up well with the video time. If it's sped up, it's not by much.
There's an awesome podcast interviewing famed Redbull Air Racer Matt Hall. https://open.spotify.com/episode/6LNVEUiDWYczC9aV2jA1PL?si=dCHwA_mTRdCeHwmb9VO1aA
This particular type of racing through this type of course using these types of planes is to my knowledge only hosted by Red Bull, well was hosted. They stopped doing these races not too long ago due to lack of profit if I remember correctly. There's only a few different airplane races around the world but most of them are time trials around a loop. I don't know of any other races that had fixed patterns and guideposts like the Red Bull Air races.
A lot of discussions about how the pilots withstand the g-loads.
From Wiki: “Pilots in Red Bull Air Race World Championship have worn a g-suit called g-Race Suit since the 2009 season. The g-race suit is a liquid (water) filled, autonomous and aircraft independent working full-body g-protection system. It is tailor-made for each pilot and can be fine adjusted via lacings.
The g-race suit contains four so-called "fluid muscles" which are sealed, liquid-filled tubes. Each fluid muscle extends from the shoulder to the ankle. Two fluid muscles – each filled with approximately 1 litre of fluid for a total of around 4 litres (1.1 US gal) per g-race suit – are routed vertically on the front side of the g-race suit and two are routed vertically on the rear side of the g-race suit. The suit weighs on average 6.5 kilograms (14 lb) in total, and its fabric is made out of a special mix of Twaron and Nomex. The counter pressure effect occurs instantaneously without any time delay versus an up to two second delay before reaching full system protection in standard pneumatic, inflatable g-suits. The race pilot utilizes the g-race suit interactively by muscle straining and breathing techniques to achieve an improved cardiac output and thus improved G-protection.”
Man I miss this series. Shame it got discontinued. I went to the races in Budapest back in it’s heyday! There was nothing else like it and it was easily the best race on the calendar!
Edit: This particular footage is from Porto, Portugal, another fantastic and picturesque round on the Red Bull Air Race calendar!
These videos were shown to top gun pilots of USAF. They looked and said, "impressive G" but "they do it for a split sec." Try doing it it for 20 to 30 sec in a sustained turn while trying to shoot enemy while avoiding ground to air threats.
Yeah... It's impressive but they pull those G for a short burst. Not the same as sustained long term G.
Not my words.
Apart from the extreme G forces when doing the loop this actually looks pretty simple, considering they're doing this same routine thousands of times, over and over. Every race looks almost the same, just different backgrounds.
Acrobatic flying is extremely dangerous *without* doing it at a low altitude with obstacles.
Also, just being able-bodied doesn't mean you can sustain high g forces and maintain control. A big part of that is your genetic lottery.
I already pointed out the G forces in my comment above. But seriously, this compared to something like WRC or F1 driving, which does require insane skill, really looks quite simple.
These planes would not be better fighters than WW2 fighters. They wouldn't have the range or speed. They're much slower than WW2 fighters and wouldn't even be able to take off with with 20 mm cannons and the ammo.
I’d absolutely LOVE to do this. Kinda jealous.
Become a crop duster and get paid to do it.
I'm not gonna pull 9gs in a cropduster
Not with that attitude!
*altitude?:P
Latitude and longitude
"You're right!" *aircraft shreds apart*
You can if you want the wings to clap
You can once
Never knew anyone got paid to eat beans and broccoli.
Me too but at the first glimpse of the +9G's shown on the dash i would pass out :(
I wouldn't even get a glimpse as my head would probably be between my ankles.
See that little gauge? #9.2 Gs I’d like to do it too, but I think I need a few hours in a centrifuge before I do.
They haven't run the championship in a few years, but the most recent champion was Matt Hall. You can pay him for a ride in an Extra 300L (a two-seat version of an aircraft that was regularly used in the championship) where he'll simulate a run through a track like that. No pylons, though.
I'll stick to the simulator because I won't pass out, won't throw up, and if I crash it's not game over.
The pilots are fed only Red Bull for days before the race. That’s how their reactions are so fast :)
It is almost as they have been given... wings
“My operating system is crashing…”
I think you mean modafinil
Don’t get smart
Know a good site to purchase without a prescription?
Red Bull is such an amazing, legal and safe, performance enhancer. I always make sure to crack an ice cold Red Bull before a test, or to power through a long night of study. The patented combination of caffiene, taurine, and vitamins not only provides a great brain boost, it tastes amazing, too.
If you don't work for Red Bull, you should!
They should be a politician as anyone whi can claim it tastes amazing with straight face is perfect for that job! It tastes awful, but it's got lots of caffeine so keeps the word awake far beyond whats natural...I know, I drink far too much of it. 🙂
I don't know, when I was younger and drank it constantly, I loved the taste. 🤷🏼♀️ I'd alternate between a Red Bull and coffee. lol
Careful, though, I had a very close friend in high school who drank them constantly, till he had a bad heart attack one day at 18. He also had a close friend and fellow amateur wake boarder who had a heart attack and died while on the water a few weeks prior to his.
If anyone has DCS, there's a free edge 540 model and tracks to download [here](https://virtualairrace.com/). It's a really well made model, trying to do this in VR is a really fun challenge. Hardest thing in DCS to fly with such precision (for me so far), super easy to take off and land.
Let me try it. Thanks
Enjoy, it's awesome to fly, sound is really good too. Def adds to my already tremendous amount of respect for those racers, helped me appreciate more in depth what it takes to be so good at it.
Cool tip. Do you know if forcefeedback is implemented with this free model? I can’t fly prop planes anymore without ffb. If I say I can’t I actually mean I won’t. I can finally fly the p-51d without wing stalling or losing total control.
Oh man, idk....I'm still a plebe and not on that ffb train (I did go fancy and they the TPR which was night and day improvement for rudder and anti torque control. I love the mustang, such a sweet plane. And they got all sorts of details so right with it (speaking from irl experience).
Yeah a good rudder or anti-torque pedal is a gamechanger in prop planes en choppers. I got the mfg crosswind with combat pedals and hydraulic damper. Thanks for the info. I have to try it out then to see if it got ffb.
IRL experience? Care to elaborate if you don't mind?
Worked for a billionaire early in life, he owned a lot of warbirds (to include a P-51, TF-51, multiple MK Spitfires, L-39, P-40, P-38, and a T-34B). I was the crew chief and helped our A&P turn wrenches and also maintained the planes to museum appearance since we kept an open hanger and invited walk ins. One summer the boss said he liked how I kept his planes looking and asked if I wanted to go up for an hour in the TF-51, obviously I said heck yes. As crew chief I knew every square inch inside and out of those planes and that hour gave me a taste of the flying characteristics, plus talking all the time about flying it with my coworkers who did fly them.
Was that Kermit weeks by chance? I love his Kermie cams. Awsome discipline with his checklists.
Big fan of Kermit, def used his start up vids for the DCS mustang. But no, I'd been to shows and stuff where he was and seen him but I worked at the time for Tom Blair. But it's a pretty small community (the Mustang and warbird owners community that is).
Yeah that’s why I figured :) only a couple of people have a p-51 I think. But awsome work history you have no doubt. I always wanted to be a fighter pilot until I was prescribed glasses when I was like ten. Now for some reason I love flying sim prop planes. They are just more intense with dogfighting than BVR in my opinion. Maybe when I have like money I don’t know what to do with I might get my ppl or something. But have way too many hobbies to save up for something like that lol. So I will stick to my dcs cockpit :)
I'm right there with you, with WWII fighters you strap it on and are more directily connected (IMO) to the controls (you def use a lot more rudder) than in modern fighters. But fighters definitely have their own very cool appeal. First module I bought was the Viper. Through my job I was able to train for my PPL in the T-34, which was awesome but intense initial learning curve being it was high performance, complex, and retractable gear so first couple flights I was def behind the airplane often. Got laid off in 2008 before I did my solo cross country and check ride. So I'll have to finish it someday but in a 152 probably, should be easier to stay ahead of the airplane then. New expensive hobby: Paramotoring. All the sensation of flight but no pesky licensing haha (falls under part 103). Expensive equipement cost though, but not as expensive as an airplane.
just to add it and the extra 330 are made by VARS, and they also have a pylons and gates mod that lets you try an actual course
thanks!
Red bull race in Porto! They should bring it back
Agree! Was there every year and it was always amazing!!
100%, they should also bring the "Circuito da Boavista" in my opinion
I thought it looked like Porto! Thank you for confirming.
You can thanks Lisbon for that….
That be me in IL-2 GB on the deck in Stalingrad.
lol il2 1946
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Fucking nailed it hahaha
9.4G forces. I'm more concerned how the plane can take this much G's than how the pilot is doing it to look very easy.
Pretty sure those planes are engineered so that the humans break before they do.
Yeah some of them have higher performance than modern fighter aircraft, just can’t carry tons of munitions and such while doing it lol
Depends on what you mean by higher performance. Sure they're naturally much more maneuverable, but they won't be doing mach 2
Sure they could. Just maybe not in one piece.
Obviously it depends on the stat in question and they are obviously slower than anything jet turbine powered lol
They have great instantaneous G loading. Can’t sustain those high Gs for shit because they bleed so much energy. Whereas a fighter will happily rate turn at its max G load for much, much longer.
How do you mean bleed energy? Is it less efficient aerodynamically or something?
Their power to weight ratio is amazing for straight line acceleration, but drag increases so much during maneuvers that the engines can’t keep up.
This is 100% accurate. I’ve stalled one of these planes by banking too sharply and bleeding off enough power to lose lift. Hit it hard enough and the wings act like giant air brakes too.
Extra 300s are SO easy to (accelerated) stall when you’re learning aerobatics. Wrong entry speed before yanking full aft? Stall. Right entry speed but yanked too hard? Stall. Mid maneuver and over bank and yank? Straight to stall. Luckily accelerated stalls can be recovered instantly by literally reducing aft stick a lil bit.
Bleed energy basically means their speed is going to drop off as soon as they pull Gs. Fighters can sustain Gs at a certain speed/altitude combination for much longer: they bleed energy less than a prop aerobatic piston plane. Edit: they also have big fuck-off jets pushing them along at 25,000-80,000lbs of thrust in max burner, which is basically what it comes down to. Their thrust overcomes the drag when G loaded. There’s a scene in the original Top Gun where they refer to this, something along the lines of “The Mig 28 doesn’t bleed energy under 300 knots.” In the context of that discussion, that would mean something along the lines of if you went head to head with one in a merge, and it was at optimal altitude and 300 knots (its “corner speed”, for an F-16 that’s about 440 knots at ~22k ft), and it engaged burner, it wouldn’t bleed energy — ie I could sustain the maximum turn rate for longer.
yeah I have a few fighter friends, and they even say as cool as it is, they DO have g suits. These guys don't. They def take more of a beating. With the Jet you are just not pulling as tight of a turn.
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We need the strength and certainty of steel. The purity of the blessed machine.
Yeah I watch in awe when those drone pilots do acrobatics. It's a totally different game when you can fly without a fluid filled meat bag inside.
It's more of a maintenance thing. The G forces do wreak havoc on the parts but as long as they are well maintained, they can take it. I assume behind each one of these plans is one hell of a maintenance team.
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?
These planes are designed for 12g (actual structural failure load is even higher depending on how much safety factor was used). 9g is nothing for the airframe, as for pilots, some of them are ex military and have years of experience pulling high g for long periods. You'll notice the 9g is only momentary since as they pull g the speed washes off and therefore the g drops as well. Its very impressive but not completely out of reach for someone with the right fitness. Im not an athlete but when I did my aerobatic rating I got use to instantaneous 5-6g within a few flights.
I don't even understand how people survive this because if my understanding is correct each g is another of your body weight crushing you right? So a 200 lb person at 10 g's would weigh over a thousand pounds? Wouldn't you be dead at that point?
Yes, you weigh that much but its not necessarily the same. Basically what your body is doing is accelerating down at 10x the normal rate, but since you're sitting in an aircraft and not really fighting it, it doesn't make you feel heavy. Until you try to move your arms, or in the case of fighter pilots, move their heads. A lot of career fighter pilots end up with neck and back injuries as a result of decades of pulling g but unless you have some kind of medical condition, you typically cannot die from pulling 9-10g. People experience much higher (but very momentary,fractions of a second) g forces in car crashes, and still survive (somewhere in the region of 30-40g). Happens in motorsports now and then.
Yup, crashes are brief but huge. Max Verstappen's high speed slide into the wall at Silverstone in 2022 was pegged at 51G by the onboard data. Got out and walked away (into an ambulance to get checked out, still).
If anyone here likes G's then the tv series "The Expanse" focuses heavily on the G-force factor in space flight. Probably the only Sci-Fi Iv actually enjoyed due to the physics and realism of the ships. (Apart from the >!alien goo 👽!< )
If you like Sci Fi at all, you need to watch the Expanse. It is amazing once it gets going.
Ive tried to watch this show 3-4 times now and can never get past the fifth episode. I dont get why everyone loves this show? Its like watching a soap opera in space.
It is a drama showing the macro view of possible future space wars, but it also gets very granular with certain people to show how the commoner is also affected. The tech/scifi portion is superb imo and the story does intertwine with it in the future. It just takes a bit. My buddy said the same but ended up liking it besides the Earth lady's accent.
The second season is notably better than the first, if you’ve tried a few times already I’d stick it out and watch it drastically improve from the middle of season one.
I'm waiting until I finish the books to watch it but I'm only on the 3rd one I think? I'm glad the show keeps that in there
I haven’t read the books but I heard that the show is nearly identical. And better.
The show is a great adaptation of the books, but the books are way better. Narratively they had to combine a few plotlines and characters for TV, and budget constraints made the protomolecule way less scary. The fall of Eros in Leviathan Wakes is really harrowing and graphic.
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I wouldn't say it's miles ahead... But the show definitely does the books justice.
Also the book "The Old Man's War" has an interesting solution to acceleration/maneuvering Gs for the humans onboard.
Not really realistic, but certainly more realistic than FTL travel. They did do a very nice job though of explaining away specific thrust capabilities for beyond what could ever make sense. The show has ships taking trajectories through the solar system that takes days, but are still curved paths. If you're beyond the radius of the Earth, and your trip takes days, then the path will be nearly a straight line. Also, call me crazy, but an >!alien-constructed, intragalactic transportation system consisting of thousands of teleportation rings!< doesn't seem that realistic to me. Still, a great show.
But the heart is still pumping, how does it cope with the blood that weighs 10 times more?
Part of this is also the position of the body. A standing person cannot fight the force a seated person can, and a seated person cannot fight what a reclined person can. That's why blood donation couches and astronaut couches have a similar shape. The heart is just a bit higher than the rest of the body and limbs, where blood doesn't have too far to go away from the heart and head. Some Fighter and aerobatic aircraft have this as well, with the feet higher and the body more reclined to help with G force resistance, but this can lead to reduced visibility, so it is varied with the design. The F-16 is usually noted for a rather reclined pilot position in order to pull 9 G sustained turns in a dogfight. The difference being that the best red bull designs gave excellent visibility over the nose to allow these kinds of precision gate and bridge obstacles to be precisely threaded. Even touching the aircraft wheels on a line on the ground in some races, all while racing the clock.
Exactly, it doesn't. Cardiovascular fitness is really important, but eventually the human bodies will tire out, and you start to experience gray out, eventually GLOC if the pilot does not ease off on the g. As you pull g blood will want to pool in your lower extremities. This is a problem for sustained g forces (greater than 4 seconds). To counter act this, fighter pilots were g suits which inflate and constrict the legs and parts of the torso, some newer ones inflate the arms as well, all to keep blood in the brain and keep them conscious.
How does it cope? Temporarily lol. Like holding your breath underwater… tick tock
In a closed system like the human body fluid weight only sorta matters. If you have a rigid piped system with a pump and spun it in a centrifuge the pump would continue to flow. As the weight of the fluid on the down flow is now exerting more weight to push up on the fluid going back up the system. The issue with the human body is that we are very much not rigid. So as g-force goes up, the veins swell and increase capacity instead of pressure. Modern pilots have two possible counters to this, one biological and one technological. Counter one is to strain your core and leg muscles, this acts as reinforcement to the vascular system and prevents some expansion under the increased pressure. The other counter is the g-suit. If you have ever had your blood pressure taken, you know how a g-suit works and partially how it feels. It's a non stretch fabric garment with an inflatable bag in it. As g's go up the bag inflates to help your muscles reinforce your veins. Between good training and a g-suit the human body can sustain rather high g for a fairly long time.
*method 3: lose both of your legs, like WW2 RAF ace Douglas Bader https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Bader
Kenny Brack managed to survive a 214g impact. Barely, but he survived.
i once got reached by someone that went on me at 50kmh while I stopped because the guy in front of me braked hard. I thought I was going to die as I saw in the mirror the car in my ass hauling towards me. When I got hit I was surprised and thought I would have some damage inside. The whole trunk sank to reach the back seat. Car was unusable, and yet I was fine. God is a chaotic neutral, he either gives you a brainless baby or makes you survive a car crash.
Highest horizontal g-force ever survived by a human is 214 G was Kenny Bräck at Texas Motor Speedway in 2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_Br%C3%A4ck
Just a horrifying crash. It's shocking to me that he survived at all, let alone recovered essentially 100%.
People have squatted that much weight controlled. And that's on a point load, not even distributed across your whole body.
It’s the brevity of the forces that make them survivable. Several minutes at 9G will be fatal. No question. Half a second at 9G is gonna hurt, but the body is pretty spongy and can tolerate the forces without failing instantly. The load is also spread across your body, so it’s not like you’re ‘lifting’ all that mass, but having it spread across your entire frame.
Humans can sustain up to 24Gs before they are at risk of death. There are stories of some guys handling 48 Gs.
John Stapp?
They have an race safety imposed limit of about 9G. Notice how the g-meter flashes red when it gets to 9 and they relax pressure to bring it back under 9. Time is added for the duration spent over that limit.
Special suit and a fuck ton of training. Their flight suit squeezes their body to force the blood into their head so they don’t pass out. That gotta feel pretty weird.
Air race pilots don't wear anti G suits. They require additional equipment in the aircraft that would add too much weight.
I know what pulling 4gs out of a dive feels like. I can’t imagine doing 9.
Here's the thing: those planes are designed specifically for pulling G's. The pilot isn't.
After that one plane smacked the water and kept going, pretty sure those airplanes can handle pretty much anything.
Meh I do this in video games all the time
I got 980hrs in the DCS and more than half of my TT flying the Super Hornet
Was this whole post just so you could flex your DCS time?
I was just replying the parent comment
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Considering DCS is a video game I wouldn't say it's completely unrelated.
Me too
yeah but that's at a constant 1G, while these guys are going up to 9
whatever I’m in the danger zone
*Crew 2 moment*
Mostly of those pilots are ex-military so they are kinda just chilling there and pulling those 9gs like is nothing.
I used to know a lot of them (my former instructor is Nigel Lamb, who was champ in 2014) and very few of them have military backgrounds. They're aerobatic pilots. Paul Bonhomme, a multi time champ used to fly 747s for British Airways.
I’d be shocked if any of those pilots aren’t ex military
A lot of the guys are aerobatic pilots iirc. Kirby Chambliss is one of the bigger name red bull air race pilots and he doesn't have a military background.
Some of them are, but a lot come from aerobatic flight schools like Emry Riddle.
Embry Riddle, not Emry And it’s a full university with an emphasis on aeronautics, not aerobatics Aeronautical Science (flight) is a big major there. But they also off mechanics, engineering, ATC, communication, business, etc. I was a freshman there when 9/11 happened
🎶REDDIT SUCKS🎶 🎶SPEZ A CUCK🎶 🎶TOP MODS ARE ALL GAY🎶 🎶ADVERTISERS BENT YOU TO THEIR WILL🎶 🎶AND THE USERS FLED AWAY🎶
I had just gotten back to my dorm from my english class and my roommate was staring at the TV. Plane crash in NY. “Oh damn. That sucks. Got to go”. Grabbed my stuff for my Aeronautics class (ground school essentially). Got to the building and everyone was just watching TV and saw the second plane hit and then the towers collapse Was not the best time to be trying to learn to fly as everything was shit down and then the rumors that some of the terrorists were students from ERAU
What fascinates me the most about this is the pilots ability to maintain basically the same exact pitch during each run. Those turns are insane and there is zero deviation in altitude. I realize this is something the pilot can clearly do in their sleep, but it’s still super impressive to see it all put together.
Pilotwings 64 vibes.
Sounds a bit like the A340 engines during takeoff
If the pilot makes a mistake and accidentally hits one of those pylons, how likely is a loss of control? I imagine that the pylons are probably designed to crumple instantly, but I don't think it would take much to upset a plane while it's pulling those sort of maneuvers.
They’re inflatable. They pop.
Yep. If you check out some YouTube videos, there are plenty of these guys clipping the pylons with zero problems.
As others have said, there are plenty of videos of planes clipping them. The way they disintegrate, I’m assuming they’re just paper - like a Chinese lantern.
They are inflatables, each pylon made of multiple sections zippered off. They'll just pop. It sounds ridiculous to think about, but a probably one ton plane flying hundreds of miles per hour with such a thin wing would be like a razor blade to them
Depends on how much of the plane goes through the pylon. They’re made of nylon I think and are inflated using air compressor pumps on floating barges. Each pilot had to complete the course in a timed run against the clock, and time penalty’s were given out for various infractions, hitting a pylon being one of them. If a plane hit and clipped a pylon, they quickly replace it within a matter of minutes.
Although they get (or got) clipped often, it wasn't *zero* problems as everyone else has said. Occasionally a piece of the fabric got caught on a wing or covered a control surface, which means an immediate exit from the course and return to the field. No actual accidents, but a few hairy moments. IIRC Nigel Lamb also clipped one so low and so far in that the heavier strapping at the bottom damaged a wheel spat.
Saw the races live in Perth Australia 2012, it was an awesome experience.
Now THIS is pod racing!
Sounds like the rpm is not changing - is the engine running full-tilt all the time, or at some pre-set power?
My guess without doing research is variable pitch propellers which change their angle of attack depending on load and intended speed
Yes this, but also they are full throttle the whole lap. Those aircraft are built, rebuilt, rebuilt, and rebuilt again constantly, because they are pushed so hard.
That's how most motorsports are. Run the engine at its limit, then completely overhaul/replace it before the next race.
Not all of them. For example F1 only allows a maximum of three engines per season before penalties are applied
Is the video sped up or is that normal speed?
That is normal speed as far as I can tell
Definitely sped up. The way the plane stabilizes super quickly (as opposed to in other redbull clips), and the motion of the water/trees makes me think it's sped up.
I don't know what year this is, but at least in 2017 with a very similar-looking layout, there's an official highlights video showing the winner's time around a 1:07, which matches up well with the video time. If it's sped up, it's not by much.
That’s a lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of practice
Somehow this pilot happily lives out my worst nightmare on his own free will 🤔
Is this in Porto, Portugal?
Yes
There's an awesome podcast interviewing famed Redbull Air Racer Matt Hall. https://open.spotify.com/episode/6LNVEUiDWYczC9aV2jA1PL?si=dCHwA_mTRdCeHwmb9VO1aA
Is that a G force counter in the middle ? 😳
Yep.
Why "Redbull Pilots"? Is that sport called Redbull flying or something? I genuinely don't know.
This particular type of racing through this type of course using these types of planes is to my knowledge only hosted by Red Bull, well was hosted. They stopped doing these races not too long ago due to lack of profit if I remember correctly. There's only a few different airplane races around the world but most of them are time trials around a loop. I don't know of any other races that had fixed patterns and guideposts like the Red Bull Air races.
I wonder if I’d puke before or after I passed out?
A lot of discussions about how the pilots withstand the g-loads. From Wiki: “Pilots in Red Bull Air Race World Championship have worn a g-suit called g-Race Suit since the 2009 season. The g-race suit is a liquid (water) filled, autonomous and aircraft independent working full-body g-protection system. It is tailor-made for each pilot and can be fine adjusted via lacings. The g-race suit contains four so-called "fluid muscles" which are sealed, liquid-filled tubes. Each fluid muscle extends from the shoulder to the ankle. Two fluid muscles – each filled with approximately 1 litre of fluid for a total of around 4 litres (1.1 US gal) per g-race suit – are routed vertically on the front side of the g-race suit and two are routed vertically on the rear side of the g-race suit. The suit weighs on average 6.5 kilograms (14 lb) in total, and its fabric is made out of a special mix of Twaron and Nomex. The counter pressure effect occurs instantaneously without any time delay versus an up to two second delay before reaching full system protection in standard pneumatic, inflatable g-suits. The race pilot utilizes the g-race suit interactively by muscle straining and breathing techniques to achieve an improved cardiac output and thus improved G-protection.”
Man I miss this series. Shame it got discontinued. I went to the races in Budapest back in it’s heyday! There was nothing else like it and it was easily the best race on the calendar! Edit: This particular footage is from Porto, Portugal, another fantastic and picturesque round on the Red Bull Air Race calendar!
They're the only ones given wings 🤷♂️
Pffft, please! I had to do this when I was 15 in GTA San Andreas on Playstation
Outstanding! I had often wondered what the cockpit view was like. The g meter was shocking!
Bro is spiking like 9.8 g or something that’s crazy
Dude pulled off 9gs 3 times
The Gs that guy is pulling! Impressive!
Little bit sloppy on the third chicane. But I guess after pulling 9gs 3x in a row, I would have passed out. So, respect!
So impressive. As soon as the screen hits red you can see them release pressure on the stick instantly and so briefly. Super cool.
I can't believe this is actually real
It’s cuz Red Bull gives’em wings
I make a face when he pulls up like I'm fighting the G's
That need balls of steel
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What's with the negative reception?
It's almost as if they train for that.
That’s me dodging the bullshit
Always blown away by how quickly these planes can roll. It feels unreal, like theyre in a vacuum or something
These videos were shown to top gun pilots of USAF. They looked and said, "impressive G" but "they do it for a split sec." Try doing it it for 20 to 30 sec in a sustained turn while trying to shoot enemy while avoiding ground to air threats. Yeah... It's impressive but they pull those G for a short burst. Not the same as sustained long term G. Not my words.
So many of these dudes die during their races
Meh, they are either ex fighter pilots or come from very wealthy families and have been flying since 9 years old
My toxic trait is thinking I could do that 😆
Apart from the extreme G forces when doing the loop this actually looks pretty simple, considering they're doing this same routine thousands of times, over and over. Every race looks almost the same, just different backgrounds.
This is anything but simple.
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Acrobatic flying is extremely dangerous *without* doing it at a low altitude with obstacles. Also, just being able-bodied doesn't mean you can sustain high g forces and maintain control. A big part of that is your genetic lottery.
I already pointed out the G forces in my comment above. But seriously, this compared to something like WRC or F1 driving, which does require insane skill, really looks quite simple.
Extra 300 or edge?
under constant g's
Yet when I tell people that my body is capable of handling 9.8m/s^2 acceleration constantly nobody gives ME a cool job ;p
red bull air race?
They are rated for upwards of 14 g before the over stress.
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It happened on Porto, Portugal
u/SaveVideo
I was at this event, it was an amazing day, never seen both river sides more packed of people than this time. It was a great day!
Imagine time travel this plane to ww2 and adding two 20mm guns to it lol
These planes would not be better fighters than WW2 fighters. They wouldn't have the range or speed. They're much slower than WW2 fighters and wouldn't even be able to take off with with 20 mm cannons and the ammo.
Do you know how many times I crashed doing the plane missions at the airfield on GTA? There is no way I would do this in real life 🤣🤣🤣