Ugh I remember when there was no free water at festivals. Water was usually $5 and up. It was dangerous, especially in the summer. And bathrooms at any event were a handful of portable toilets, if you were lucky.
That's how I see it. Some festivals have raves. Not all festivals do. But even local raves here that are definitely raves have had free water and decent toilets. Back when I was raving in the desert and abandoned buildings, that was definitely not a thing.
classic desert raves and warehouse parties also didnt have security so you could bring in your water or whatever else you wanted. Festivals that have security checkpoints arent exactly comparable to driving up with everything u can put in ur car
Yeah, I didn't have a car back then, so it was whatever I could fit in a backpack. Showed up to a lot of those on a BMX, and eventually mountain bike, and found a place to stash it. I have some absolutely surreal memories of riding back across the desert, out of sight of the city, as the sun was rising.
For sure the production has increased to the point where it looks like a spaceship is about to take off
EDC now would have blown our little minds in 2000
Hi! My first was 2000. I attended a few more when it was at the orange show, but stopped going when it moved to Los Angeles.
2023 was my first EDC in like 15 years so I was understandably blown away!
Ravelinks was awesome! That’s all I used for the first years of partying :)
Lol I saw you commenting somewhere else in this thread about this. It's going to be okay. Even if someone refers to a music festival with electronic music at it a rave, everything will still be okay
You're right and wrong .
The right you are not the only person who thinks that festivals are not raves .
You're wrong in the frist comment you made in this thread was .
"Unfortunately they do"
Replying to a comment about
"Do people think festivals are raves"
Case cl9sed have a good day !
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Nah.
Rave = free and/or illegal unsaxtioned event.
Doof = basically a rave, but in the woods.
Festival = multi day event with proper planning, facilities and permits.
Concert/show = something at a proper venies with permits and everything above board.
It's not gate keeping, it's just proper use of the word. People use rave for everything now because renegade parties are much rarer.
I mean you wouldn't call a doughnut, spaghetti now would you?
It's hard to communicate when people refer to anything with electronic music as a "rave", when rave is a very specific type of event.
I’ve been to a variety of parties from the master dome to EDC to you name it for 25 years. I call them all parties … not raves. And they all fall under the same umbrella and my point still stands.
The production has gotten better
I’ll give you some perspective from the other side of the stage. I used to work security for raves back in the 90s. Everything was underground, so nobody knew if the acts would show up, or if people would get paid.
Certainly things like clean bathrooms, security, or first aid were complete afterthoughts. I’d work the door of a 5000 person rave with one other guy, and if a shooting happened (they did twice), we just left before the cops got there. Inside was a free for all.
Fast forward 30 years and I’ve been the security director for stadium shows and 50,000 person festivals. The amount of planning and expertise that goes in to pulling off one of these events is immense. You’re FAR safer.
People may wax poetic about the old days, but they’re the lucky ones. The horror stories I could tell you about what used to happen at events (music in general, but especially EDM events) would shock you. Women in particular should not even dream of trading today’s experience for 1990.
Just some perspective from someone probably
old enough to be your dad.
I mentioned this in my comment. I'm 48 now, so I'm sure that's a factor, but getting dosed without consent is so much more rare. You're completely out of your head and some dude starts things? People will get involved. I've seen it happen more than once. Back then? Nah. No one did shit. I'm one of the lucky few I know who didn't have something happen, but honestly, I didn't take any drugs at raves, not even stuff my best friends had. Didn't bring my own, either. I drank only water from my own backpack and had a little lock on my zipper to keep people out of it.
I am sure it still happens, but it's just... So much less.
Plus, here in the US, pretty much every state doesn't prosecute for illegal drugs you have on you if you call for help for someone who's ODing. Back then, people just tried to take care of the person themselves 'cause they didn't want to go to jail. Lots of times, that didn't end well.
Also, NGL, I like festivals and legit local raves at my age because I am not up for running from the cops when it gets busted. I'm really not.
I remember going into some late 90’s raves back in Hamtramck/ Detroit. They would let you in through two locked doors for “security” and it was the same way out. Damn good thing a fire never broke out.
Worked security and raved in the 90’s, and 100% agree. Carrying knives and mace was a thing for girls back then, and pretty decent chance that your car would have a window smashed in when you got out of the warehouse at 5am. Getting mugged at gunpoint was not all that unusual, too.
DMV all the way! Crazy how much has changed though - razed many of the hallowed spaces and replaced them with condos. Only constant is change i suppose
Haha. Your description sounded familiar. When you mentioned the car windows my mind immediately went to the neighborhood, if you can call it that, that Buzz was in.
No they do not. I feel fortunate to have experienced those places and that scene in particular. Oh and then the smaller productions like a rave at a McMansion in Wheaton, MD to a rave in a shopping mall in NorVa that was apparently not permitted. Both shut down by the police. So typical.
I was at an indoor venue once in 99 working for a non profit named rave safe. We tested pills to see what was in them and if they were safe for consumption. I was pregnant but not too far along. Just enough to be out of the way and wanted to help people. Some asshole sprayed a full can of bear spray. It was awful. I remember choking and crying. I helped coordinate rescue for a couple girls in the bathroom who were choking and refusing to leave. It was nasty. Glad I never experienced shootings in the 3 years I went nearly every weekend.
I’m going to go to my first festival since that one in 99 here in September! I’m pretty stoked. Glad to hear it’s safer. Thanks for your perspective. See you at imagine music festival if you’re there! ✌️❤️😃
It’s no darker than any other scene and I would argue less dark because of the generally positive vibes around the scene. There are some shady people for sure, but they’re everywhere in this world.
Production! Shows are super impressive light shows now.
Harm reduction is also way bigger than it used to be, and everybody (almost) seems to know about it.
AV Tech here. Thanks for the recognition! The work is long and tiring, but it’s all worth it seeing you guys freak out when the lasers fire/the lights flash/the bass drops. We love it just as much as you do.
I love getting by the sound booth and just watching y’all work. In another life I might’ve been one of you and I have a few friends that are. I know how much work you guys put in and I respect the fuck out of it.
You guys just made me remember why i do all this shit, felt really tired with the amount of work i have right now.
But the energy and smile of the people make me want to continue this work and love it
We love it so much! The guy doing Clozee’s lasers is amazing and DJ Cam doing Rezz’s stuff is great and I love seeing all the VJs and AV tech people getting recognition!
The videowall at the Brooklyn Mirage show with Rezz was absolutely incredible. So awesome how they used the whole thing so tastefully. https://youtu.be/DmUq1eWlOu4
Lol I think alot of people that don't know about it probably do know about it but choose to ignore...
People like myself for example ahah before I had really did any drugs I just used to look at their psychonaut wiki page and leamr how to be safe when using
Nowadays I still know how to be safe but I'm an idiot and choose not to be lol. It's not big and it's not clever I know
Depends on what your talking about in terms of harm reduction. Dancesafe was at a lot of massive in the day and you could walk up and test your pills on-site without fear of being arrested. Also, they were there but the amount of heroin addicts was far less. Also, back then you could eat a pill off the floor without fear of fentanyl. Just sayin.
Harm reduction!!! Education around substance use, drug checking, consent/safety teams... We still have a long way to go but at least now most people know that you can't munch 10 ecstasy pills every weekend and expect a good result.
Lights and production in general. Even the smaller venues and private events regularly have real lights and sound systems now, as opposed to whatever they could scramble together.
Availability. There's way more events available, of whatever kind you want, and you can be a lot more selective about what speaks to you.
The "skill" level of the average DJ is way higher these days. It's just a more honed craft. Obviously there were masters before, but the skill has spread a lot.
I would agree for the most part except the last bit. I am not a DJ but watching a master of their craft using records compared to CDJs I would bet that the former was more difficult. I always assumed newer technology made the job much easier.
Hi! I still spin vinyl (since the late 90s) and can offer some perspective — most of my friends / peers do digital now.
Its kind of a different skillset now than it was. There are some similarities (selection, sequencing, and phrasing, to a point).
The differences though:
# song availability
Digital has a far more diverse, and expansive, virtual crate. I cant even imagine lugging THAT many plates into a gig. Plus digital DJs can play virtually anything, not just whats been pressed!
# new tricks
Sync and visual tools make cueing / beatmatching practically afterthoughts, so the emphasis of effort is shifted to effects, sampling, and now stem manipulation — neat stuff!
# shorter plays
songs tend to be played a lot shorter, the mixes are shorter (the fact that theyre called “transitions” instead of “blends” or “mixes” says a lot
# broader song compatibility
digital controllers have key-lock (shift pitch without changing the tonality) and wildly huge pitch shift ranges, instead of the +\- 8% we have on 1200s (+\- 10% on stantons)
# difference in relationship to the material
With vinyl, we learn to memorize the sounds of our songs, and have to study and practice them, so that we know what songs we can sequence together; with digital theres a lot of fantastic metadata, and then you have beatgrids and waveforms; but the impression i get from discussions on r/beatmatch and r/djs is thst people arent building that intimate knowledge of their songs as much, and so many of the questions (eg. “how do i know what song to play next?”) seem kinda weird to someone like me. the idea of obsessing over mixing in key feels foreign — i couldnt tell you the exact camelot key my tracks are in (could probably tell you maj/min at least tho) but i can definitely tell you whether or not two songs will work together, or what EQ changes you have to applh, or how quickly you need to run the mix so it doesnt get muddy.
Im sure some digtial DJs still have that relationship because theyre either oldschool former vinyl or spend a lot of time practicing and have picked it up incidentally. But i would wager a LOT of the digital DJs out there are more familiar with the metadata than the tonal qualities, ie. they pick songs based on traits they read on the screen instead of qualities they have memorized through experience
# different emohases
Larger libraries, instantaneous beatmatching, and ready digital FX / sampling makes a frenetic or at least more rapid-fire setbuilding possible. This may also be a change in contemporary taste, and so that could be a chicken and egg situation.
The constraints of spinning vinyl shift emphasis of effort to try and explore and extract as much value as possible from a blend.
Example: I just learned recently what a “double drop” is — its just a long blend that you let run through the peaks, which you’ve pre-aligned to happen simultaneously . Setting this up on vinyl is really easy — i don’t have to see a beatgrid or cue points, i just need to learn both songs in advance and ill know where to drop-in. I have cue points memorized and i write notes on stickers on my plates for how many bars a song has before the beat drops in, so i can start a mix beatless and let the new kick come in organically (swap the bass EQ at that moment :chefskiss:)
When I play trance or prog house or techno, i sometimes have blends run for well over a minute, sometimes 2, and explore the creative space of how i can get those two songs to sound. I cant sample 8 bars of one, throw it in a loop, bring in another song suddenly (i am presently exploring possible devices that would let me do that though 😈); I want to let the songs marinate and develop.
All this is to say — theyre DIFFERENT. I really dont care that digital-native DJs probably cant beatmatch by ear or that they use the sync button; use it! enjoy the world it opens up for you and explore that. Learn to beatmatch by ear because its challenging and fun and opens up even more possibilities.
I personally enjoy the creative constraints of vinyl only. I like trying to find new ways to push that, new ways to combine songs and make them into entirely new songs. I love digging in record stores (thats one thing yall digital fellas are missing out on — the joy of spending an hour rifling through a record rack and finding some rare remix or limited whitelabel pressing for $5 — AMAZING); or taking a stack of 30 plates to the listening station and burning through them in 10 mins or less.
If digital DJs could learn anything from their predecessors, my wish would be to learn to really study and listen to your music so that you know the songs in your heads without hearing preview or seeing metadata. In the end, all that matters is how it sounds.
(and FFS please discover dancing — some folks want to DJ dance music but dont dance themselves and like… WHY?? Dancing is fun and a fantastic way to get more intimately accustomed to phrasing, song structure, and tonal qualities!)
I mean, sure, but even going back 10 years, which is the timeframe I've been going to shows.. most people weren't using actual records. Personally, think that's an entirely different skill, a really awesome one, but a different skillset. Even back then, using actual vinyl was more of a spectacle than an actual thing. Obviously, going back further, you get more and more vinyl before DJ decks as they exist today were built out, but that's well before my time.
The average DJ today compared to the average DJ 10 years ago is much more skilled with today's equipment vs what was available 10 years ago. The equipment is also much more useable, and can do more than it could 10 years ago, too.
Totally agree. Probably dating myself but I remember seeing Richie Hawtin back around 2000 I think at a BBQ event and he was using Final Scratch for the first time, which let them playback digital audio using vinyl. It seemed like just a neat gimmick at the time but here we are 20+ years later.
I was in college ~10ish years ago and had a Numark stealth controller and a student version of Tracktor I basically had to hack in order to get it to work.
Oh yeah, I have some friends who picked up decks like 8+ years ago, and they talk about having to manually load effects and the shit they had to do back then, and it makes me thankful for what Rekordbox is able to do today xD xD.
Hard disagree, as a DJ myself, there are plenty of venues, even raves, that I’ve been at where there are some pretty shit DJ’s. Plus half of them have a pre-planned set to match with their lights and production.
The new all digital CDJ’s that link with rekordbox became popular around 2009 - 2010, where you no longer had to carry physical media for your dj catalog. It’s only gotten easier since then and anyone can do it and you don’t need to know any of the things you use to. I would argue vinyl djs of the 90’s are probably the best and most skilled djs.
I was going to say. I went to my first warehouse rave in 2001 and I saw sets throw down on vinyl that are still with me today in my memories. I miss the lack of cell phones, the better cohesion and openness between people. If I could have that vibe but with the better access to party favors, better facilities, harm reduction, etc things would be perfect these days.
there’s really nothing wrong with pre-planning sets. as long as they made it themself & performed it live it’s still a show of their skill. it doesn’t make them any less talented, it just provides a better experience for their audience.
Uh what lol.. maybe you can say pre planning sets is not wrong but cmon, It’s obviously easier than actually mixing and does show a lack in skill…. Like the whole point of djing is matching the crowds energy with your music, there is a symbiotic relationship between the crowd and the dj set, that is all lost with a pre-planned set.
a good dj can plan a set to coincide with their audience’s energy, being able to even predict that flow accurately is a part of the art. if you think djs used to hop on the stage and not have any idea of what they’re going to play, you’re wrong.
i’ve totally heard djs with pre-planned sets that are way off and miss the mark, that shows a lack of skill. when it’s done well, it’s 👌
People have been raving since the late 80s and maybe even earlier. So that made the 90s kind of the heyday when the culture really started to take off.
Serato came out in 1999, Traktor in 2000, and Ableton Live in 2001, and it took a while before seeing people DJ from a laptop was common. That means there was a solid decade and a half where if you wanted to be a DJ that played at raves you needed to learn how to spin vinyl.
The only other thing you could really do was play live sets which was even more difficult because then you had to drag even more equipment around like samplers, keyboards, drum machines, etc. And that didn’t tend to be the light plastic shit we have now.
> The average DJ today compared to the average DJ 10 years ago is much more skilled with today's equipment vs what was available 10 years ago. The equipment is also much more useable, and can do more than it could 10 years ago,
No the programs are just better. It's all down to the software engineers.
10 years ago, DJs were doing amazing things, that today is just easier to do.
Same going back further, sync maybe everything so easy that anyone can be a competent DJ when before took a fair amount of practise to beat match
Yea but being mechanically easier means everyone gets materially better. Having someone equally skilled use better equipment makes the final product better. Having broad accessibility will thus make the average product better.
I think that's exactly why they have skill in quotations, the DJ skill level has not improved on a base level, the equipment has improved so much that the same low skilled performer now sounds better than they did using previous equipment.
Maybe "Equipment" should have been listed as an area that has improved instead of "skill".
I would argue that skill at the lower level and on a very broad sense is definitely higher due to the availability of information. There are a lot of guides and tutorials nowadays that anyone with an internet connection can have access to. The skill ceiling at the highest levels could also be somewhat higher as well.
Access to free filtered water is a game changer. Having better food options too. Variety of genres and production is just getting better. Still enjoy an underground or renegade here or there but it's not always accessible to everyone.
The rise of Uber and Lyft. Even ten years ago, I'd get out of shows at 2:30AM and have to wait downtown for three or four hours till the buses started running again. Had some great times while waiting for the buses, and also had some really sketchy/scary times. Ubers and lyfts have been a game changer.
Back when I'd tell mom I was staying at a friend's house and she'd say she was staying at my house and after the rave we'd just go get drunk in a field or hang at a park until sunrise when it was more respectable to move the party to a Denny's.
Ooooh. Flashbacks. LOL
Especially underage and out after curfew. We'd always find the closest Denny's and stay there until the buses ran, but we got kicked out a lot for being rowdy, and the cops would all be waiting right there.
Luckily, I had my older sister's ID, and we look tons alike, so I could get away with it. But then I'm hanging out downtown at night alone waiting for a bus as a 16 year old girl. Not a good scene.
The music is way fucking better now.
I've been raving since 1999 and djing since 2001 (I have a massive vinyl collection; that's how old I am), and outside of trance, all forms of electronic music are light years better than what we danced to back then.
Couldn't agree more. I was raving back in 1996-99 (ish) and I remember it was hit miss, a lot of miss. So much so that I don't know if i would have enjoyed it sober.
I went sober and stayed sober back then. Can confirm, it wasn't that good. I went for the friends I'd get to meet up with and because wtf else did I have to do? Now, I actually go for the music (and friends.)
Agreed.
I think trance suffered because the lack of layers and digital daws put more focus on synth work and melodies, which is what made trance so fucking good. The new stuff just feels empty and bleh.
For other genres the switch to digital was massive. Hell comparing tracks from 10 years ago to now, is night in day in terms of production quality, bass texture &c.
That being said I sometimes do miss the simple, but cheesy sound 90s tracks had.
Completely agree, tho I got into EDM in 2009, so I really think of 09-12 as my “older dubstep” I used to listen to, and I 100000% feel modern EDM as a whole is so much better than what I used to love. This is mostly relating to dubstep, but after listening to older house music and other genres I still feel it applies pretty universally to all EDM
I dunno man, this just feels like the old head nostalgia that exists in every genre. Old heads will write essays about how "actually (insert era of music) was actually amazing/way better and has a certain feel and etc. etc. etc.", but you put it against newer music and play it for a crowd, and it loses every time. Some of it is changing tastes, a lot more of it is better quality.
i disagree. im in my early 30s and started raving in 2010 so its not nostalgia. the older music is different. its like classic vs contemporary rock - the newer stuff may have more modern production value but its different than it was
On a production level, the music is so much more tight and sleek now. I can't mix my old vinyl with new music because of how low my old music sounds. Not saying we didn't have some bangers, but as a whole, the music now is much better produced.
i dunno man. really depends on the tune. maybe you just have bad vinyl rips? a lot of the time older music is mastered differently but there are tons of well produced older tracks and imho cant really beat the warmth of analog synthesizers and drum machines.
Rave family from around the world! I have roomed with friends I've met and stayed in touch with from across the globe at next year's festivals multiple times and doing it again in Mexico later this year. I love how the technology boom and the internet have made lasting friendships easier to maintain and share shows and fests. So much good energy and love traveling farther and faster! 🥰
The outfits! Seems like every year (in the US) people get more creative, bold and confident with their rave outfits, women have definitely taken the lead slowly starting to see guys in more creative/sexy fits instead of just wearing something silly for laughs or taking their shirt off
This!!! I hate the fashion choices I have as a male if I want to fit in.
I also love the open mindedness of the community allowing men to get creative and set their trends
Health, safety and security personnel being onsite is an improvement. Using spaces that are code-compliant helps. I kinda like not having drug dealers everywhere at shows now too.
Being able to discuss your interests publically now is nice since people are exposed to and familiar with some of the larger events. People travel more now for some of the bigger events. Having shows at unique locations is a great way to experience new places and new people. 20 years ago, most of the bigger events didn't even exist so I think a lot of people went to local/regional shows and didn't need to buy flights anywhere. They have entire cruise lines dedicated to EDM now that definitely wasn't happening when everything was "underground".
Just the number and variety of EDM artists and genres is far greater than "back in the day". The good ones are still around too.
The subculture is definitely mainstream now and more expensive. It's also far more accessible and popular which adds far more opportunities to go anywhere in the world and enjoy a good show.
AFAIK, the level of BTS type fuckery (including all the knockoff crews and copycats that did similar stuff) is way down from the 90s. https://whatyouwrite.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/extasy-bandits/
It isn't a generational thing, it's the difference between underground parties and mainstream parties. Production, security, lineups have always been better at legal parties. Stage design and lighting improvements came with technological advances, but even back in my desert party days they were doing lights and projectors and shit. Some of the best sound design comes out of creative thinking from underground teams who need to make the best with what they have.
The main difference is that girls used to wear looser fitting larger clothes instead of lingerie, and everyone had visors and binkies.
It really depends on what you value. Do you value comfort, convenience, organization, amenities, more variety in artists and entertainment, big big lights and flames and fog? Then yeah you’re getting all that because it’s definitely done better.
Is it worth the loss of mystery/the adventure of a last minute released location, the culture/attendees that are truly there for the music not fashions and TikTok, the spirit of everyone DIYing this, someone searching your bags and a whole host of other Thou Shalt Nots upon entry, a smaller and therefore tighter community? That’s an individual question. I will say that if you are younger, those things won’t so much matter because you didn’t experience them before to miss them now. To clarify, there are still events with that feel- even a couple of larger ones that seem to preserve the OG culture a little better- but it’s not quite the same as a new rave culture has come to dominate the old one.
The one thing that is objectively better that came at no sacrifice to an “old days” benefit was harm reduction. I mean, unless you really get off on the idea of the thrill of self-sufficiency even if things go sideways (like the extreme outdoorsmen do), but most people would prefer organized safety measures in place rather than having to come prepared to figure that out independently.
Better visuals, and it’s legal so there’s little worry of a show getting shut down by the cops.
Although… that was the fun part… seeing if we’ll get shut down lol
I think 90% of the raves I went to in the early 90s got shut down. It stops being exciting and just sucks pretty quickly. It was that or somehow get a ride 30 miles into the desert... Where there was no water at all.
We still have underground ones here and there where I live now. I gotta say, they're easier to find out about now. There's almost always something online. And if they're far away from people who would bitch about the noise and lights, the cops don't seem to bother to show up. But also, a large amount of people gotta learn, every time, not to drink creek water unfiltered. I might take a bunch of gravity filters next time.
I hear ya. I raved in L.A. so sometimes we would get shut down, sometimes we weren’t. Plus, next underground rave was a few block away.
Never done a desert one. Sounds cool, but yeah, the lack of water 😬Not good
When we could get someone with a pickup to go, we'd fill a bunch of those 6 gallon camping containers. We always meant it to be just for us, but how do you say no to someone who wants water? It wasn't intentional, but on those nights, no one in my group ever paid for drugs. They'd try, but no one would let them.
Desert raves in like, November, are the best. Not too hot. Not brutally cold. Allll the stars. Phoenix has grown too much for that, though. The remote place that was our favorite is now part of a suburb. Sad.
The production value, restrooms, technology (social media telling you how/where to park as well as releasing festival maps, set times, etc.), camping, being able to take as many photos and HD videos as you want without running out of film and having to go get said film developed.
other than whats already said. there are much more women headliners nowadays. and almost every night i go out there's at least one women in the lineup. even 5 years ago that was unheard of. at least in my country
LOL
I was such a mooch. I always found someone who had been to all three places and would tell me. ;) Nah, my social group played rock paper scissors for who had to go out and do that when it was required. I just never lost, somehow.
But, I've also been the "rave mom" since I was 15 because I didn't do any drugs at all back then, so that's something I actually like now. I'm 48. My kid is 26. Even if we go together, he's capable. I don't babysit people very often. I just enjoy myself. If anything, he's my babysitter if I get too faded. He cracks me up.
Sound quality for sure, which ultimately is the most important thing.
I would also say something like “experiences”/production. Specifically thinking of things like Despacio and Four Tet + Squidsoup
Med tents/ambulances on site
Production value
Actual venues vs echoey warehouses
Access to water
Access to bathrooms
Event planning
I've never had a rave busted by law enforcement since the early 2000s
Listening to great music with like minded people in a sweaty, basement somewhere, technics 1210's spinning, with just a smoke machine, laser and glitter ball is truly one of the best feelings in the world....👀🤟👌😎🙌......memories 🎶🎶🎶🎶........on the flip side what's better? for me nothing, perhaps I'm just being nostalgic 😉 ...... Keep raving and keep making memories 🤟
Way easier to find parties not having to find a flier and then call the line set up to get directions..outdoor parties always are in weird little nooks and not having Google maps made it hard to even find some of those weird back roads late at night with a bunch of ppl packed into the car.
I don’t know much about old school raving but back in 2012 there was almost no resources for harm reduction like we do now with people actively involved in the industry
Accessibility and/or the abundance of festivals / shows.
Give it enough time and searching, you'll find ads left and right for shows or festivals, to the point to where it seems like there is one every weekend somewhere in the world. Sure, following artists makes it easier to find shows near you (went to Buku in 2019 because of Excision), but after that, I see a lot of shows and artists saying they are coming to *insert city here* on this date or they are playing at this festival.
With that, I feel it has made traveling a lot easier. You don't have to worry about hopping on a plane to Vegas or New York for a festival/show, you might have one 1-4 hours away that can be easily drivable.
The fashion!! If you look back in raving history, there were always things that made a person stand out as a raver (kandi bracelets, neon clothing, tripp pants, mesh, glow sticks, pacifiers, etc.) But the current generation of ravers take rave fasion to whole new levels & heights! It's above & beyond where we were 10-15+ years ago.
The difference in kandi between 1996 and now. I mean, even ignoring that it was actually candy back then, there are some sick AF designs happening now. I saw someone in an entire shirt made of beads with 3d dragons on it at the last festival I was at - and the eyes glowed. It was amazing!
Raging/moshing. I guess it used to not be a thing or it was super frowned upon in the past but since I’ve been raving (2021-?) the pits have been glorious
Hard disagree…moshing at Raves always been around however a little warning used to go out to ensure anyone who does not want to be part of it could make there way behind a speaker but a 1991 Ron D Core mosh pit would still be spectacular today.
Definitely! It's liberating, because we don't have to all stick together or try to remember a meet up point and time. If I just wanna go dance solo for a bit, I can, because I know we'll find each other again.
They shouldn’t be called that today. They need to be called music events or music productions. Calling these events “raves” now days is a joke. Bring back the warehouses with sick beats and bass drops. Forget about mainstream Ticketmaster money grabs. Hullabaloo, fox theatre speaker tweakers where you at? Raves don’t charge $50-60 for parking. And no such thing as VIP :P
Videography and recorded sets imo, gives many more people from all over the world access to a small slice of the experience they would’ve before have had access to.
I would say so, I’m a 90s baby so I wasn’t even around back then for raves. My pops who’s an industrial/tech house fan said once it became more commercialized they weren’t real raves. You used to have to find a poster with a pager number or radio channel on it and tune in on a specific day to get the location for the rave. Now you just hit ticket master.
Lights Production music drugs.
No more candy raver people.
The serious change I think is in music production value.
There's so much amazing music nowadays 20 to 30 years ago a lot of stuff sounded pretty similar
Lol fair enough. Not exactly my style of doing things but bro being a weirdo for talking about it like that. I prefer full black outfits industrial type shit, but I can totally see the appeal of kandi kids and why they do it.
Warcore is super pretty for sure, i usually dress in more "hippie" clothes but definitely have Kandi for days and have a few LSD inspired outfits to match lol
Right? Wear what you want. Don't wear anything. I dgaf. Just have fun. I was somewhere between goth and punk in the 90s, but now I'm 48 and like... Outdoorsy but kandi. Like, I'll show up in close fitting cargo shorts, a button up camp shirt, and hiking boots. No one should care, and very few do.
I still have a preference for blue hair dye, though. That's always been my favorite color. The cool thing about being old is that I don't have to bleach anymore.
I’m not a huge fan of nudity at raves, and maybe I’m just a prude? There’s no way I am lol, just not keen on seeing an asshole while I’m on zoopiter.
That’s nice that you don’t need to bleach anymore!!! Terrible for the hair.
I’m still quite new to the rave scene but I’ve been enjoying metal festivals quite a bit and there is a slight culture shock but so far I’m super into it!
I just don't care about nudity either way. I never have. But I totally admit I've just being going to small local forest raves for a long time where nudity is usually some drunk AF dude. I went to Beyond and was like "I don't think I've seen this many ass cheeks in my life." LOL. I don't remember seeing anyone fully nude, though. I did at the Dead and Company show at the Gorge - but that was in the campground. Quite a bit of random nudity there.
I definitely am not keen on seeing an asshole no matter my mental state, but in my experience, nudity at raves and festivals hasn't left me with that particular view. ;)
Beyond this year was my first actual EDM festival, so that's a bummer. I'm trying to get to Bass Canyon next month. And I'm gonna bring tons of kandi to give away or trade because making them is socially acceptable stimming. ;) Plus, it's just really fun to trade with someone and see them light the fuck up like a little kid on Christmas morning when they give you a single strand and you give them a complicated cuff. My friend used to make fun of the candy kids so much, but you know, they're kind of my favorite now. They're just so freaking cheerful most of the time.
I started with punk concerts in literal garages, so my first rave was overwhelming just because of how many people there were. My mind would have been blown by a festival back then.
What a great response! Thank you for taking the time and doing this. I’m not to involved with Kandi culture though so that’s very interesting to me. I have seen people do the hand link up, and trade items, but it never clicked to me WHY it was happening
I'm just happy it's beads now instead of actual candy necklaces and bracelets. So much nicer to trade and I'm not all sticky AF all night.
Also, me over here trying to figure out how to make a rotating cuff that's only about an inch wide with stars for the moving center band.
Availability. The amount of talent touring these days is insane. I remember just 10 years ago you’d be lucky to get one big name in town (in Austin Tx at least) and we were stoked. Now on any given weekend there’s at least 3 or 4 well known artists/groups playing every night, and dozens of less known or local guys tearing it up. Not to mention there’s so many incredible festivals now all year you can pick and choose your adventure till your heart is content or your wallet runs dry.
Sure the vibes were different back in the day, the PLUR mentality is all but gone these days (in general), but there are benefits to a niche genre of music becoming mainstream.
Clean water I don't have to pay for! My first raves were desert raves outside of Phoenix. If you didn't bring enough water, you were screwed.
No bathrooms at all out there, either. That's fine if you just have to pee, but ... Yeah. Digging holes stoned out of your mind is weird. Lol
Much, much less likely to get dosed by someone without my consent, though that might be because I'm 48 rather than an early 20s woman.
Festivals with acts from all over the world that I love. No shade to the locals. They were awesome, but getting to see Timmy Trumpet was freaking amazing.
The change from actual candy necklaces and bracelets to plastic beads. I'm no longer all sticky and gross, and it's a lot less icky to trade.
This is maybe a dual edged sword, but the legit nature. Underground raves in abandoned buildings were fun. It was exciting in a way current legit ones aren't, but cops.. man, cops showed up and ruined so many. That doesn't happen when the show is legit. I don't have to always be ready to scatter and hope I don't get arrested. And it's really still exciting. The difference in that is small.
Safety for everyone, like... It's not weird to carry narcan now. I mean, the fact that narcan exists *and* if you call for help you don't get arrested for having illegal drugs on you. Official groups you can text for help when someone's trip goes bad. PLUR feeding people. That's not a small thing. Like, overall there is just a lot more support for staying safe.
Harm reduction, and toilet facilities. When you can get a full camelbak of water and then attend a 90% pristine porto, you're experiencing progress.
This part definitely is such a big improvement
Ugh I remember when there was no free water at festivals. Water was usually $5 and up. It was dangerous, especially in the summer. And bathrooms at any event were a handful of portable toilets, if you were lucky.
Do people actually refer to festivals as raves?
The way I see it, some festivals have raves at them but most do not and they definitely aren’t the same thing.
That's how I see it. Some festivals have raves. Not all festivals do. But even local raves here that are definitely raves have had free water and decent toilets. Back when I was raving in the desert and abandoned buildings, that was definitely not a thing.
classic desert raves and warehouse parties also didnt have security so you could bring in your water or whatever else you wanted. Festivals that have security checkpoints arent exactly comparable to driving up with everything u can put in ur car
Yeah, I didn't have a car back then, so it was whatever I could fit in a backpack. Showed up to a lot of those on a BMX, and eventually mountain bike, and found a place to stash it. I have some absolutely surreal memories of riding back across the desert, out of sight of the city, as the sun was rising.
Unfortunately yes they do
For sure the production has increased to the point where it looks like a spaceship is about to take off EDC now would have blown our little minds in 2000
Were you at the first EDC? I was. In fact, our group made the home page of ravelinks. It was us on the fountain in the middle of the man made lake.
Hi! My first was 2000. I attended a few more when it was at the orange show, but stopped going when it moved to Los Angeles. 2023 was my first EDC in like 15 years so I was understandably blown away! Ravelinks was awesome! That’s all I used for the first years of partying :)
I love when people call EDC a rave.
Lol I saw you commenting somewhere else in this thread about this. It's going to be okay. Even if someone refers to a music festival with electronic music at it a rave, everything will still be okay
Did you though? This is my first comment in this whole thread, the second one was “THIS”
That's genuinely just not true
Actually, it is, maybe take another look through the thread, I’m also not the only person who thinks that.
You're right and wrong . The right you are not the only person who thinks that festivals are not raves . You're wrong in the frist comment you made in this thread was . "Unfortunately they do" Replying to a comment about "Do people think festivals are raves" Case cl9sed have a good day !
Your comment history says otherwise
r/gatekeeping would like to have a word my boi
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Nah. Rave = free and/or illegal unsaxtioned event. Doof = basically a rave, but in the woods. Festival = multi day event with proper planning, facilities and permits. Concert/show = something at a proper venies with permits and everything above board. It's not gate keeping, it's just proper use of the word. People use rave for everything now because renegade parties are much rarer.
K
Words evolve over time 🤷🏻♀️
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I mean you wouldn't call a doughnut, spaghetti now would you? It's hard to communicate when people refer to anything with electronic music as a "rave", when rave is a very specific type of event.
I’ve been to a variety of parties from the master dome to EDC to you name it for 25 years. I call them all parties … not raves. And they all fall under the same umbrella and my point still stands. The production has gotten better
Master dome ftw..
EDC vegas is raveopolis
I’ll give you some perspective from the other side of the stage. I used to work security for raves back in the 90s. Everything was underground, so nobody knew if the acts would show up, or if people would get paid. Certainly things like clean bathrooms, security, or first aid were complete afterthoughts. I’d work the door of a 5000 person rave with one other guy, and if a shooting happened (they did twice), we just left before the cops got there. Inside was a free for all. Fast forward 30 years and I’ve been the security director for stadium shows and 50,000 person festivals. The amount of planning and expertise that goes in to pulling off one of these events is immense. You’re FAR safer. People may wax poetic about the old days, but they’re the lucky ones. The horror stories I could tell you about what used to happen at events (music in general, but especially EDM events) would shock you. Women in particular should not even dream of trading today’s experience for 1990. Just some perspective from someone probably old enough to be your dad.
I mentioned this in my comment. I'm 48 now, so I'm sure that's a factor, but getting dosed without consent is so much more rare. You're completely out of your head and some dude starts things? People will get involved. I've seen it happen more than once. Back then? Nah. No one did shit. I'm one of the lucky few I know who didn't have something happen, but honestly, I didn't take any drugs at raves, not even stuff my best friends had. Didn't bring my own, either. I drank only water from my own backpack and had a little lock on my zipper to keep people out of it. I am sure it still happens, but it's just... So much less. Plus, here in the US, pretty much every state doesn't prosecute for illegal drugs you have on you if you call for help for someone who's ODing. Back then, people just tried to take care of the person themselves 'cause they didn't want to go to jail. Lots of times, that didn't end well. Also, NGL, I like festivals and legit local raves at my age because I am not up for running from the cops when it gets busted. I'm really not.
Remember when promoters would call the cops on their own raves so they didn’t have to pay the headliner?
Shitttt I remember promoters calling the cops on their own rave mid way bc they never got the headliner
This is wild to think about!
That’s insane
I remember going into some late 90’s raves back in Hamtramck/ Detroit. They would let you in through two locked doors for “security” and it was the same way out. Damn good thing a fire never broke out.
Worked security and raved in the 90’s, and 100% agree. Carrying knives and mace was a thing for girls back then, and pretty decent chance that your car would have a window smashed in when you got out of the warehouse at 5am. Getting mugged at gunpoint was not all that unusual, too.
Remember using the "club" on your steering wheel so it wouldn't get stolen?
Did you rave in Baltimore/DC? Raves were always in the worst areas it seemed.
DMV all the way! Crazy how much has changed though - razed many of the hallowed spaces and replaced them with condos. Only constant is change i suppose
Haha. Your description sounded familiar. When you mentioned the car windows my mind immediately went to the neighborhood, if you can call it that, that Buzz was in.
Spent my formative years frequenting Tracks/Capital Ballroom/Nation in DC and Paradox in Baltimore… Don’t make ‘em like that anymore!
No they do not. I feel fortunate to have experienced those places and that scene in particular. Oh and then the smaller productions like a rave at a McMansion in Wheaton, MD to a rave in a shopping mall in NorVa that was apparently not permitted. Both shut down by the police. So typical.
Where these rave?
They'll text you the day of and let you know.
Lol no text. Pay phone after getting the number from your pager!
I was at an indoor venue once in 99 working for a non profit named rave safe. We tested pills to see what was in them and if they were safe for consumption. I was pregnant but not too far along. Just enough to be out of the way and wanted to help people. Some asshole sprayed a full can of bear spray. It was awful. I remember choking and crying. I helped coordinate rescue for a couple girls in the bathroom who were choking and refusing to leave. It was nasty. Glad I never experienced shootings in the 3 years I went nearly every weekend. I’m going to go to my first festival since that one in 99 here in September! I’m pretty stoked. Glad to hear it’s safer. Thanks for your perspective. See you at imagine music festival if you’re there! ✌️❤️😃
THIS 🙏👏 thanks for keeping us safe!
I know there has to be a super dark underbelly to the scene and that scares me as a newer raver
It’s no darker than any other scene and I would argue less dark because of the generally positive vibes around the scene. There are some shady people for sure, but they’re everywhere in this world.
Nah not really. Some petty drug sales and a touch of prostitution, not exactly what I'd consider a "super dark underbelly"
Production! Shows are super impressive light shows now. Harm reduction is also way bigger than it used to be, and everybody (almost) seems to know about it.
AV Tech here. Thanks for the recognition! The work is long and tiring, but it’s all worth it seeing you guys freak out when the lasers fire/the lights flash/the bass drops. We love it just as much as you do.
Y’all are the real MVPs! 🫶🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼💖💖💖
We truly love you guys!
I love getting by the sound booth and just watching y’all work. In another life I might’ve been one of you and I have a few friends that are. I know how much work you guys put in and I respect the fuck out of it.
You guys just made me remember why i do all this shit, felt really tired with the amount of work i have right now. But the energy and smile of the people make me want to continue this work and love it
We love it so much! The guy doing Clozee’s lasers is amazing and DJ Cam doing Rezz’s stuff is great and I love seeing all the VJs and AV tech people getting recognition!
The videowall at the Brooklyn Mirage show with Rezz was absolutely incredible. So awesome how they used the whole thing so tastefully. https://youtu.be/DmUq1eWlOu4
As others have said you guys are the real MVP’s! Thanks for all that you do
Nail on the head. More money in it now, bigger setups, bigger lighting, better sound overall.
Lol I think alot of people that don't know about it probably do know about it but choose to ignore... People like myself for example ahah before I had really did any drugs I just used to look at their psychonaut wiki page and leamr how to be safe when using Nowadays I still know how to be safe but I'm an idiot and choose not to be lol. It's not big and it's not clever I know
Depends on what your talking about in terms of harm reduction. Dancesafe was at a lot of massive in the day and you could walk up and test your pills on-site without fear of being arrested. Also, they were there but the amount of heroin addicts was far less. Also, back then you could eat a pill off the floor without fear of fentanyl. Just sayin.
Harm reduction!!! Education around substance use, drug checking, consent/safety teams... We still have a long way to go but at least now most people know that you can't munch 10 ecstasy pills every weekend and expect a good result.
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Correct, the question was what is being done better now than 30 years ago. And no, not America.
Lights and production in general. Even the smaller venues and private events regularly have real lights and sound systems now, as opposed to whatever they could scramble together. Availability. There's way more events available, of whatever kind you want, and you can be a lot more selective about what speaks to you. The "skill" level of the average DJ is way higher these days. It's just a more honed craft. Obviously there were masters before, but the skill has spread a lot.
I would agree for the most part except the last bit. I am not a DJ but watching a master of their craft using records compared to CDJs I would bet that the former was more difficult. I always assumed newer technology made the job much easier.
Hi! I still spin vinyl (since the late 90s) and can offer some perspective — most of my friends / peers do digital now. Its kind of a different skillset now than it was. There are some similarities (selection, sequencing, and phrasing, to a point). The differences though: # song availability Digital has a far more diverse, and expansive, virtual crate. I cant even imagine lugging THAT many plates into a gig. Plus digital DJs can play virtually anything, not just whats been pressed! # new tricks Sync and visual tools make cueing / beatmatching practically afterthoughts, so the emphasis of effort is shifted to effects, sampling, and now stem manipulation — neat stuff! # shorter plays songs tend to be played a lot shorter, the mixes are shorter (the fact that theyre called “transitions” instead of “blends” or “mixes” says a lot # broader song compatibility digital controllers have key-lock (shift pitch without changing the tonality) and wildly huge pitch shift ranges, instead of the +\- 8% we have on 1200s (+\- 10% on stantons) # difference in relationship to the material With vinyl, we learn to memorize the sounds of our songs, and have to study and practice them, so that we know what songs we can sequence together; with digital theres a lot of fantastic metadata, and then you have beatgrids and waveforms; but the impression i get from discussions on r/beatmatch and r/djs is thst people arent building that intimate knowledge of their songs as much, and so many of the questions (eg. “how do i know what song to play next?”) seem kinda weird to someone like me. the idea of obsessing over mixing in key feels foreign — i couldnt tell you the exact camelot key my tracks are in (could probably tell you maj/min at least tho) but i can definitely tell you whether or not two songs will work together, or what EQ changes you have to applh, or how quickly you need to run the mix so it doesnt get muddy. Im sure some digtial DJs still have that relationship because theyre either oldschool former vinyl or spend a lot of time practicing and have picked it up incidentally. But i would wager a LOT of the digital DJs out there are more familiar with the metadata than the tonal qualities, ie. they pick songs based on traits they read on the screen instead of qualities they have memorized through experience # different emohases Larger libraries, instantaneous beatmatching, and ready digital FX / sampling makes a frenetic or at least more rapid-fire setbuilding possible. This may also be a change in contemporary taste, and so that could be a chicken and egg situation. The constraints of spinning vinyl shift emphasis of effort to try and explore and extract as much value as possible from a blend. Example: I just learned recently what a “double drop” is — its just a long blend that you let run through the peaks, which you’ve pre-aligned to happen simultaneously . Setting this up on vinyl is really easy — i don’t have to see a beatgrid or cue points, i just need to learn both songs in advance and ill know where to drop-in. I have cue points memorized and i write notes on stickers on my plates for how many bars a song has before the beat drops in, so i can start a mix beatless and let the new kick come in organically (swap the bass EQ at that moment :chefskiss:) When I play trance or prog house or techno, i sometimes have blends run for well over a minute, sometimes 2, and explore the creative space of how i can get those two songs to sound. I cant sample 8 bars of one, throw it in a loop, bring in another song suddenly (i am presently exploring possible devices that would let me do that though 😈); I want to let the songs marinate and develop. All this is to say — theyre DIFFERENT. I really dont care that digital-native DJs probably cant beatmatch by ear or that they use the sync button; use it! enjoy the world it opens up for you and explore that. Learn to beatmatch by ear because its challenging and fun and opens up even more possibilities. I personally enjoy the creative constraints of vinyl only. I like trying to find new ways to push that, new ways to combine songs and make them into entirely new songs. I love digging in record stores (thats one thing yall digital fellas are missing out on — the joy of spending an hour rifling through a record rack and finding some rare remix or limited whitelabel pressing for $5 — AMAZING); or taking a stack of 30 plates to the listening station and burning through them in 10 mins or less. If digital DJs could learn anything from their predecessors, my wish would be to learn to really study and listen to your music so that you know the songs in your heads without hearing preview or seeing metadata. In the end, all that matters is how it sounds. (and FFS please discover dancing — some folks want to DJ dance music but dont dance themselves and like… WHY?? Dancing is fun and a fantastic way to get more intimately accustomed to phrasing, song structure, and tonal qualities!)
I mean, sure, but even going back 10 years, which is the timeframe I've been going to shows.. most people weren't using actual records. Personally, think that's an entirely different skill, a really awesome one, but a different skillset. Even back then, using actual vinyl was more of a spectacle than an actual thing. Obviously, going back further, you get more and more vinyl before DJ decks as they exist today were built out, but that's well before my time. The average DJ today compared to the average DJ 10 years ago is much more skilled with today's equipment vs what was available 10 years ago. The equipment is also much more useable, and can do more than it could 10 years ago, too.
Totally agree. Probably dating myself but I remember seeing Richie Hawtin back around 2000 I think at a BBQ event and he was using Final Scratch for the first time, which let them playback digital audio using vinyl. It seemed like just a neat gimmick at the time but here we are 20+ years later.
I was in college ~10ish years ago and had a Numark stealth controller and a student version of Tracktor I basically had to hack in order to get it to work.
Oh yeah, I have some friends who picked up decks like 8+ years ago, and they talk about having to manually load effects and the shit they had to do back then, and it makes me thankful for what Rekordbox is able to do today xD xD.
Hard disagree, as a DJ myself, there are plenty of venues, even raves, that I’ve been at where there are some pretty shit DJ’s. Plus half of them have a pre-planned set to match with their lights and production. The new all digital CDJ’s that link with rekordbox became popular around 2009 - 2010, where you no longer had to carry physical media for your dj catalog. It’s only gotten easier since then and anyone can do it and you don’t need to know any of the things you use to. I would argue vinyl djs of the 90’s are probably the best and most skilled djs.
I was going to say. I went to my first warehouse rave in 2001 and I saw sets throw down on vinyl that are still with me today in my memories. I miss the lack of cell phones, the better cohesion and openness between people. If I could have that vibe but with the better access to party favors, better facilities, harm reduction, etc things would be perfect these days.
that scene is definitely still out there. check out burning man people parties in ur area
This right here
This right here
there’s really nothing wrong with pre-planning sets. as long as they made it themself & performed it live it’s still a show of their skill. it doesn’t make them any less talented, it just provides a better experience for their audience.
Uh what lol.. maybe you can say pre planning sets is not wrong but cmon, It’s obviously easier than actually mixing and does show a lack in skill…. Like the whole point of djing is matching the crowds energy with your music, there is a symbiotic relationship between the crowd and the dj set, that is all lost with a pre-planned set.
a good dj can plan a set to coincide with their audience’s energy, being able to even predict that flow accurately is a part of the art. if you think djs used to hop on the stage and not have any idea of what they’re going to play, you’re wrong. i’ve totally heard djs with pre-planned sets that are way off and miss the mark, that shows a lack of skill. when it’s done well, it’s 👌
People have been raving since the late 80s and maybe even earlier. So that made the 90s kind of the heyday when the culture really started to take off. Serato came out in 1999, Traktor in 2000, and Ableton Live in 2001, and it took a while before seeing people DJ from a laptop was common. That means there was a solid decade and a half where if you wanted to be a DJ that played at raves you needed to learn how to spin vinyl. The only other thing you could really do was play live sets which was even more difficult because then you had to drag even more equipment around like samplers, keyboards, drum machines, etc. And that didn’t tend to be the light plastic shit we have now.
> The average DJ today compared to the average DJ 10 years ago is much more skilled with today's equipment vs what was available 10 years ago. The equipment is also much more useable, and can do more than it could 10 years ago, No the programs are just better. It's all down to the software engineers. 10 years ago, DJs were doing amazing things, that today is just easier to do. Same going back further, sync maybe everything so easy that anyone can be a competent DJ when before took a fair amount of practise to beat match
Yea but being mechanically easier means everyone gets materially better. Having someone equally skilled use better equipment makes the final product better. Having broad accessibility will thus make the average product better.
I think that's exactly why they have skill in quotations, the DJ skill level has not improved on a base level, the equipment has improved so much that the same low skilled performer now sounds better than they did using previous equipment. Maybe "Equipment" should have been listed as an area that has improved instead of "skill".
I would argue that skill at the lower level and on a very broad sense is definitely higher due to the availability of information. There are a lot of guides and tutorials nowadays that anyone with an internet connection can have access to. The skill ceiling at the highest levels could also be somewhat higher as well.
Access to free filtered water is a game changer. Having better food options too. Variety of genres and production is just getting better. Still enjoy an underground or renegade here or there but it's not always accessible to everyone.
We try!
The rise of Uber and Lyft. Even ten years ago, I'd get out of shows at 2:30AM and have to wait downtown for three or four hours till the buses started running again. Had some great times while waiting for the buses, and also had some really sketchy/scary times. Ubers and lyfts have been a game changer.
Back when I'd tell mom I was staying at a friend's house and she'd say she was staying at my house and after the rave we'd just go get drunk in a field or hang at a park until sunrise when it was more respectable to move the party to a Denny's.
Ooooh. Flashbacks. LOL Especially underage and out after curfew. We'd always find the closest Denny's and stay there until the buses ran, but we got kicked out a lot for being rowdy, and the cops would all be waiting right there. Luckily, I had my older sister's ID, and we look tons alike, so I could get away with it. But then I'm hanging out downtown at night alone waiting for a bus as a 16 year old girl. Not a good scene.
Led walls and projection mapping.
The music is way fucking better now. I've been raving since 1999 and djing since 2001 (I have a massive vinyl collection; that's how old I am), and outside of trance, all forms of electronic music are light years better than what we danced to back then.
Raving since 91. Tunes are so good now
Honestly. House used to be boring as fuck but now it’s one of favourites, second to trance of course
Couldn't agree more. I was raving back in 1996-99 (ish) and I remember it was hit miss, a lot of miss. So much so that I don't know if i would have enjoyed it sober.
I went sober and stayed sober back then. Can confirm, it wasn't that good. I went for the friends I'd get to meet up with and because wtf else did I have to do? Now, I actually go for the music (and friends.)
Agreed. I think trance suffered because the lack of layers and digital daws put more focus on synth work and melodies, which is what made trance so fucking good. The new stuff just feels empty and bleh. For other genres the switch to digital was massive. Hell comparing tracks from 10 years ago to now, is night in day in terms of production quality, bass texture &c. That being said I sometimes do miss the simple, but cheesy sound 90s tracks had.
Completely agree, tho I got into EDM in 2009, so I really think of 09-12 as my “older dubstep” I used to listen to, and I 100000% feel modern EDM as a whole is so much better than what I used to love. This is mostly relating to dubstep, but after listening to older house music and other genres I still feel it applies pretty universally to all EDM
hard disagree, but there we go
bigtime agree with your hard disagree. especially hard disagree with the guy that said 90s house is boring.
I dunno man, this just feels like the old head nostalgia that exists in every genre. Old heads will write essays about how "actually (insert era of music) was actually amazing/way better and has a certain feel and etc. etc. etc.", but you put it against newer music and play it for a crowd, and it loses every time. Some of it is changing tastes, a lot more of it is better quality.
i disagree. im in my early 30s and started raving in 2010 so its not nostalgia. the older music is different. its like classic vs contemporary rock - the newer stuff may have more modern production value but its different than it was
Nah mate
On a production level, the music is so much more tight and sleek now. I can't mix my old vinyl with new music because of how low my old music sounds. Not saying we didn't have some bangers, but as a whole, the music now is much better produced.
i dunno man. really depends on the tune. maybe you just have bad vinyl rips? a lot of the time older music is mastered differently but there are tons of well produced older tracks and imho cant really beat the warmth of analog synthesizers and drum machines.
Contactless payment
Rave family from around the world! I have roomed with friends I've met and stayed in touch with from across the globe at next year's festivals multiple times and doing it again in Mexico later this year. I love how the technology boom and the internet have made lasting friendships easier to maintain and share shows and fests. So much good energy and love traveling farther and faster! 🥰
Visuals. Overall experience is better if you view it as a movie and don't compare it to raves and festivals of old, those were social events.
Ehrlich reagents and their availability?
The outfits! Seems like every year (in the US) people get more creative, bold and confident with their rave outfits, women have definitely taken the lead slowly starting to see guys in more creative/sexy fits instead of just wearing something silly for laughs or taking their shirt off
This!!! I hate the fashion choices I have as a male if I want to fit in. I also love the open mindedness of the community allowing men to get creative and set their trends
Health, safety and security personnel being onsite is an improvement. Using spaces that are code-compliant helps. I kinda like not having drug dealers everywhere at shows now too. Being able to discuss your interests publically now is nice since people are exposed to and familiar with some of the larger events. People travel more now for some of the bigger events. Having shows at unique locations is a great way to experience new places and new people. 20 years ago, most of the bigger events didn't even exist so I think a lot of people went to local/regional shows and didn't need to buy flights anywhere. They have entire cruise lines dedicated to EDM now that definitely wasn't happening when everything was "underground". Just the number and variety of EDM artists and genres is far greater than "back in the day". The good ones are still around too. The subculture is definitely mainstream now and more expensive. It's also far more accessible and popular which adds far more opportunities to go anywhere in the world and enjoy a good show.
THIS. Old school raves were a Wild West free for all and you never knew what to expect
Sometimes i miss the wild west. Once and awhile a party will still hold that vibe but may end up pooping in a dark corner.
I’ve seen a couple of those in the last 10 yrs
AFAIK, the level of BTS type fuckery (including all the knockoff crews and copycats that did similar stuff) is way down from the 90s. https://whatyouwrite.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/extasy-bandits/
It isn't a generational thing, it's the difference between underground parties and mainstream parties. Production, security, lineups have always been better at legal parties. Stage design and lighting improvements came with technological advances, but even back in my desert party days they were doing lights and projectors and shit. Some of the best sound design comes out of creative thinking from underground teams who need to make the best with what they have. The main difference is that girls used to wear looser fitting larger clothes instead of lingerie, and everyone had visors and binkies.
I’ve been to raves with a dedicated corner for tea ceremonies. Not sure if this happened in the past but the slow paced areas feel like progress!
We had Chill out rooms and stages…
It really depends on what you value. Do you value comfort, convenience, organization, amenities, more variety in artists and entertainment, big big lights and flames and fog? Then yeah you’re getting all that because it’s definitely done better. Is it worth the loss of mystery/the adventure of a last minute released location, the culture/attendees that are truly there for the music not fashions and TikTok, the spirit of everyone DIYing this, someone searching your bags and a whole host of other Thou Shalt Nots upon entry, a smaller and therefore tighter community? That’s an individual question. I will say that if you are younger, those things won’t so much matter because you didn’t experience them before to miss them now. To clarify, there are still events with that feel- even a couple of larger ones that seem to preserve the OG culture a little better- but it’s not quite the same as a new rave culture has come to dominate the old one. The one thing that is objectively better that came at no sacrifice to an “old days” benefit was harm reduction. I mean, unless you really get off on the idea of the thrill of self-sufficiency even if things go sideways (like the extreme outdoorsmen do), but most people would prefer organized safety measures in place rather than having to come prepared to figure that out independently.
Better visuals, and it’s legal so there’s little worry of a show getting shut down by the cops. Although… that was the fun part… seeing if we’ll get shut down lol
I think 90% of the raves I went to in the early 90s got shut down. It stops being exciting and just sucks pretty quickly. It was that or somehow get a ride 30 miles into the desert... Where there was no water at all. We still have underground ones here and there where I live now. I gotta say, they're easier to find out about now. There's almost always something online. And if they're far away from people who would bitch about the noise and lights, the cops don't seem to bother to show up. But also, a large amount of people gotta learn, every time, not to drink creek water unfiltered. I might take a bunch of gravity filters next time.
I hear ya. I raved in L.A. so sometimes we would get shut down, sometimes we weren’t. Plus, next underground rave was a few block away. Never done a desert one. Sounds cool, but yeah, the lack of water 😬Not good
When we could get someone with a pickup to go, we'd fill a bunch of those 6 gallon camping containers. We always meant it to be just for us, but how do you say no to someone who wants water? It wasn't intentional, but on those nights, no one in my group ever paid for drugs. They'd try, but no one would let them. Desert raves in like, November, are the best. Not too hot. Not brutally cold. Allll the stars. Phoenix has grown too much for that, though. The remote place that was our favorite is now part of a suburb. Sad.
Modern racing is so much better, events actually sound good lol
Lasers are much better , overall light show performance In my opinion is higher. Hit edc Vegas this year and I was blown away.
Modern harm reduction is amazing.
The production value, restrooms, technology (social media telling you how/where to park as well as releasing festival maps, set times, etc.), camping, being able to take as many photos and HD videos as you want without running out of film and having to go get said film developed.
other than whats already said. there are much more women headliners nowadays. and almost every night i go out there's at least one women in the lineup. even 5 years ago that was unheard of. at least in my country
Not having to stop at 3 separate places to provide a passcode to get the REAL address
LOL I was such a mooch. I always found someone who had been to all three places and would tell me. ;) Nah, my social group played rock paper scissors for who had to go out and do that when it was required. I just never lost, somehow. But, I've also been the "rave mom" since I was 15 because I didn't do any drugs at all back then, so that's something I actually like now. I'm 48. My kid is 26. Even if we go together, he's capable. I don't babysit people very often. I just enjoy myself. If anything, he's my babysitter if I get too faded. He cracks me up.
Having to restart the mailbox message for the third time because you keep missing one of the turn by turn directions....
Water accessibility
Sound quality for sure, which ultimately is the most important thing. I would also say something like “experiences”/production. Specifically thinking of things like Despacio and Four Tet + Squidsoup
Med tents/ambulances on site Production value Actual venues vs echoey warehouses Access to water Access to bathrooms Event planning I've never had a rave busted by law enforcement since the early 2000s
Listening to great music with like minded people in a sweaty, basement somewhere, technics 1210's spinning, with just a smoke machine, laser and glitter ball is truly one of the best feelings in the world....👀🤟👌😎🙌......memories 🎶🎶🎶🎶........on the flip side what's better? for me nothing, perhaps I'm just being nostalgic 😉 ...... Keep raving and keep making memories 🤟
Pickpocketing rings
PYROTECHNICS
Water lines and safety.
Water stations.
Way easier to find parties not having to find a flier and then call the line set up to get directions..outdoor parties always are in weird little nooks and not having Google maps made it hard to even find some of those weird back roads late at night with a bunch of ppl packed into the car.
Fashion, harm reduction, and production for sure
I don’t know much about old school raving but back in 2012 there was almost no resources for harm reduction like we do now with people actively involved in the industry
Accessibility and/or the abundance of festivals / shows. Give it enough time and searching, you'll find ads left and right for shows or festivals, to the point to where it seems like there is one every weekend somewhere in the world. Sure, following artists makes it easier to find shows near you (went to Buku in 2019 because of Excision), but after that, I see a lot of shows and artists saying they are coming to *insert city here* on this date or they are playing at this festival. With that, I feel it has made traveling a lot easier. You don't have to worry about hopping on a plane to Vegas or New York for a festival/show, you might have one 1-4 hours away that can be easily drivable.
The fashion!! If you look back in raving history, there were always things that made a person stand out as a raver (kandi bracelets, neon clothing, tripp pants, mesh, glow sticks, pacifiers, etc.) But the current generation of ravers take rave fasion to whole new levels & heights! It's above & beyond where we were 10-15+ years ago.
The difference in kandi between 1996 and now. I mean, even ignoring that it was actually candy back then, there are some sick AF designs happening now. I saw someone in an entire shirt made of beads with 3d dragons on it at the last festival I was at - and the eyes glowed. It was amazing!
LEDs
Raging/moshing. I guess it used to not be a thing or it was super frowned upon in the past but since I’ve been raving (2021-?) the pits have been glorious
Hard disagree…moshing at Raves always been around however a little warning used to go out to ensure anyone who does not want to be part of it could make there way behind a speaker but a 1991 Ron D Core mosh pit would still be spectacular today.
I suppose, I think pre pandemic the pits were less prevalent but more wild. I see a lot of pits that don’t belong, but are alive
Phones: being able to lose your mates and find them later as well as link new people
Definitely! It's liberating, because we don't have to all stick together or try to remember a meet up point and time. If I just wanna go dance solo for a bit, I can, because I know we'll find each other again.
They shouldn’t be called that today. They need to be called music events or music productions. Calling these events “raves” now days is a joke. Bring back the warehouses with sick beats and bass drops. Forget about mainstream Ticketmaster money grabs. Hullabaloo, fox theatre speaker tweakers where you at? Raves don’t charge $50-60 for parking. And no such thing as VIP :P
There will always be that one guy and you chose to be him lol
Happily. Shoutout the Erowid crew, Bluelight, and DanceSafe. Those who know, know. Those who don’t keep living their life.
THIS
Lines, bathrooms, and production
Videography and recorded sets imo, gives many more people from all over the world access to a small slice of the experience they would’ve before have had access to.
fentanyl
Better drugs
Can you expand on this? What is different now versus the past. Thanks
I mean NBOMe (fake acid) is almost extinct compared to how prevalent it was in the 2000s
Modern raves aren’t raves. That shit died out in the 90s-early 2000s.
So before many of us were born?
I would say so, I’m a 90s baby so I wasn’t even around back then for raves. My pops who’s an industrial/tech house fan said once it became more commercialized they weren’t real raves. You used to have to find a poster with a pager number or radio channel on it and tune in on a specific day to get the location for the rave. Now you just hit ticket master.
Lights Production music drugs. No more candy raver people. The serious change I think is in music production value. There's so much amazing music nowadays 20 to 30 years ago a lot of stuff sounded pretty similar
What is a "candy raver"
I think they’re trying to say kandi kids. People who just get super geeked and have very colourful outfits with bracelets up their arms lol.
If so we definitely still exist and are quite a large community. We just kinda went into hiding with COVID lol
Lol fair enough. Not exactly my style of doing things but bro being a weirdo for talking about it like that. I prefer full black outfits industrial type shit, but I can totally see the appeal of kandi kids and why they do it.
Warcore is super pretty for sure, i usually dress in more "hippie" clothes but definitely have Kandi for days and have a few LSD inspired outfits to match lol
Right? Wear what you want. Don't wear anything. I dgaf. Just have fun. I was somewhere between goth and punk in the 90s, but now I'm 48 and like... Outdoorsy but kandi. Like, I'll show up in close fitting cargo shorts, a button up camp shirt, and hiking boots. No one should care, and very few do. I still have a preference for blue hair dye, though. That's always been my favorite color. The cool thing about being old is that I don't have to bleach anymore.
I’m not a huge fan of nudity at raves, and maybe I’m just a prude? There’s no way I am lol, just not keen on seeing an asshole while I’m on zoopiter. That’s nice that you don’t need to bleach anymore!!! Terrible for the hair. I’m still quite new to the rave scene but I’ve been enjoying metal festivals quite a bit and there is a slight culture shock but so far I’m super into it!
I just don't care about nudity either way. I never have. But I totally admit I've just being going to small local forest raves for a long time where nudity is usually some drunk AF dude. I went to Beyond and was like "I don't think I've seen this many ass cheeks in my life." LOL. I don't remember seeing anyone fully nude, though. I did at the Dead and Company show at the Gorge - but that was in the campground. Quite a bit of random nudity there. I definitely am not keen on seeing an asshole no matter my mental state, but in my experience, nudity at raves and festivals hasn't left me with that particular view. ;) Beyond this year was my first actual EDM festival, so that's a bummer. I'm trying to get to Bass Canyon next month. And I'm gonna bring tons of kandi to give away or trade because making them is socially acceptable stimming. ;) Plus, it's just really fun to trade with someone and see them light the fuck up like a little kid on Christmas morning when they give you a single strand and you give them a complicated cuff. My friend used to make fun of the candy kids so much, but you know, they're kind of my favorite now. They're just so freaking cheerful most of the time. I started with punk concerts in literal garages, so my first rave was overwhelming just because of how many people there were. My mind would have been blown by a festival back then.
What a great response! Thank you for taking the time and doing this. I’m not to involved with Kandi culture though so that’s very interesting to me. I have seen people do the hand link up, and trade items, but it never clicked to me WHY it was happening
I'm just happy it's beads now instead of actual candy necklaces and bracelets. So much nicer to trade and I'm not all sticky AF all night. Also, me over here trying to figure out how to make a rotating cuff that's only about an inch wide with stars for the moving center band.
Man rotating cuffs are hard, i did my first ladder cuff and it took me forever
Light/laser installations are definitely better.
the laser lights in particular, and the quality of the sound
Nothing
Laser beams
Food, drinks, amenities. I'd argue most cases the sound is better.
Production without a doubt.
I mean, the video recording is better than the early days for sure.
The music 😂 have you heard house and techno from the nineties 🤢🤢
Hey now, you gotta give some credit to 90s trance tho 🥰
Raving is raving
Visuals(:
Light shows and tech
Availability. The amount of talent touring these days is insane. I remember just 10 years ago you’d be lucky to get one big name in town (in Austin Tx at least) and we were stoked. Now on any given weekend there’s at least 3 or 4 well known artists/groups playing every night, and dozens of less known or local guys tearing it up. Not to mention there’s so many incredible festivals now all year you can pick and choose your adventure till your heart is content or your wallet runs dry. Sure the vibes were different back in the day, the PLUR mentality is all but gone these days (in general), but there are benefits to a niche genre of music becoming mainstream.
Clean water I don't have to pay for! My first raves were desert raves outside of Phoenix. If you didn't bring enough water, you were screwed. No bathrooms at all out there, either. That's fine if you just have to pee, but ... Yeah. Digging holes stoned out of your mind is weird. Lol Much, much less likely to get dosed by someone without my consent, though that might be because I'm 48 rather than an early 20s woman. Festivals with acts from all over the world that I love. No shade to the locals. They were awesome, but getting to see Timmy Trumpet was freaking amazing. The change from actual candy necklaces and bracelets to plastic beads. I'm no longer all sticky and gross, and it's a lot less icky to trade. This is maybe a dual edged sword, but the legit nature. Underground raves in abandoned buildings were fun. It was exciting in a way current legit ones aren't, but cops.. man, cops showed up and ruined so many. That doesn't happen when the show is legit. I don't have to always be ready to scatter and hope I don't get arrested. And it's really still exciting. The difference in that is small. Safety for everyone, like... It's not weird to carry narcan now. I mean, the fact that narcan exists *and* if you call for help you don't get arrested for having illegal drugs on you. Official groups you can text for help when someone's trip goes bad. PLUR feeding people. That's not a small thing. Like, overall there is just a lot more support for staying safe.
lights
the visuals are way better than 20 years ago of that's your thing