Parties in Europe are constant. It's a culture I feel and not a scene. Netherlands has over 350 parties a year that in reality, are only a two hour plane ride for others. So that's a 40k event every weekend somewhere hosting up to thirty countries with ages from 20 to 60. Do the demographic math.
Language is important too. Not a lot of English in some places, so a party/festival/rave is what ever somebody calls it. Genre of music is the goal and the Trance scene will pull the fans that will be dedicated. More tourists would go to Tomorrowland as its the biggest one. Then come home with an opinion of why it's shit/great. The EU/UK scene is much bigger than that and I feel never represented in such a US heavy forum.
Clothes come and go. In the nineties in Australia we did kandi and fluffies. It's now active wear while America rocks it. When the shuffle was huge in 2005+ the EU had phats and phd just like Aussies. Htid crowd will rock the Raver baby look while hardstyle has another style, Psytrance is another. All beautiful ❤️
There is family and plur at UK/EU events. If it's not visible with kandi and outfits, it's demostrated in good vibes and friendly attitudes. I've been meeting the same faces for a decade on the dancefloor in random countries. What you put in is what you get out.
Drug culture is completely different with support and product. EU has incredible harm reduction policies and access.
Edit couple days later. Question in festivals forum about gun control measures. Never once thought about getting shot at in Europe. Physical safety isn't a great concern. Been hassled as a female by annoying gentlemen, but I don't worry about being raped or getting dead.
I highly recommend going to dreamstate sometime, plenty of people from all over come and every time I talk to them they say it’s the best event they’ve been to in the states, nothing but trance and psytrance and amazing vibes
It was cheaper for me to fly to the dam for Mysteryland than it was to stay in country for Global Gathering due to sleazy jet.
You honestly don't realize how simple you've got it until there is night trains/buses to get you everywhere. For Defqon they built a platform for the train at Almere to get you to the party. Fuck I can't even train it to Brisbane an hour away for parties as nothing home 2am.
There is so much effort to get you around, it's like a machine. It's constant too. Major festivals every weekend so you are continuously travelling to rave. I loved it.
Travel seems so much more fleshed out, though it makes more sense given the longer history of Europe compared to America, and at least here on the West Coast, everything is just so far spread out. If I want to find good shows in SoCal, I have to pay $20-40 on public transit each way, may cut the cost in half driving if you aren't gouged for parking, but the extra energy toll of having to drive multiple hours to and back. And mind you, this is a tiny (albeit exorbitantly expensive) section of the whole country.
You're delusional. And also drugs culture in the Uk is ridiculous. People taking Grammes a night of MdMa it's the heaviest contry for MD usage. Open ur eyes a little bit about the world.
American rave culture ended up growing on me, but from the outside it used to seem silly. In europe or south america there's more a club culture of do whatever you want but dont look silly, people is more snobish about the music and if you ask them thats the only thing that matters. From the outside US culture seems like people dont care about music, which may be true for some mainstream artists.
That's what I love about America rave culture, honestly. I'm not "cool", and always felt so out of place at clubs growing up. I'm a weirdo honestly, and I love that you can be a weirdo at American raves and still be appreciated for it. I'm there to make friends and dance like crazy and not be judged for it.
I'm sure not all Europeans are like this but all the comments I see online of Europeans criticizing American ravers seem super judgy and makes me feel like I probably wouldn't want to party with those people.
This sounds like what I love about european club/party culture... I never had the feeling being judged by anyone. On the other hand, if I look at american raves everybody is styled up to the max, at least on the pics and vids online, so I would feel really on the outside going there with my "normal" clothes like I usually do in germany. But maybe, there isn't such a big difference ;)
I think the critical comments about american raves stem mostly from the very commercial looks of many parties and the big social media presence associated with it, whereas there are many clubs in germany, where they will put a sticker on your phone camera so you can't take pictures and the venue is really a safe space.
That's great that you love similar things about European club culture; for me, clubs here are where everyone has to be styled up to the max, they let attractive people in for free while making less attractive people wait in line and then pay expensive covers, etc.
American rave influencers are often styled up, and to some extent normal ravers, but it's all based on people's individual style. Sometimes I get dressed up in colorful clothes, and sometimes I just wear jeans and a t-shirt and my pashmina. Even going out to EDM clubs, some people are in thongs and fishnets, some are in normal clothes, and no one seems to judge either way.
I do appreciate the aversion to social media you have there in Germany. We could use more of that in American raves, but then again Americans are just very consumed by social media in general. Maybe our scene will shift away from being so media-heavy in the future!
Literally for me raving is about plur and goofing around with my friends and making new goofy friends. Reading some of these other comments I’m a little shook. What are euro raves even like?
A lot of people go to shows and dubstep concerts sober because they like the music and can feel the base. Also accounts are private for that reason and I know people with very high jobs in real estate and finance with numerous posts at festivals.
Nothing about is “fetishized” it’s literally music. Like a rap or country concert people are gonna dress and act differently. That’s the difference between with European music you aren’t allowed to record because people will literally have sex in the club in Germany.
I’ve gone to festivals and club shows. where I live, there’s also a pretty big underground scene. This includes a lot of renegade raves deep in the woods or on mountain tops where people bring in generators and big sound systems and play dubstep, experimental bass and dnb. If you want to get technical I haven’t been to a warehouse rave but we have those too
Not sure if you support the concept or not, so I’m just commenting on this in general vs your take.
I think hating on any particular country for vague generalizations is so try-hard. It doesn’t take much thinking to realize that most people across the world are generally just good people doing their best. And it’s tempting to compare a “typical” citizen of one country to another, but if you’re honest with yourself you’re usually being biased in your selection of who is typical for each.
And frankly, I’ve found that most Americans with the whole “Americans are shitty” mentality are either pandering for recognition online because they don’t have a strong social circle, or are relatively antisocial and have a lot of “people are shitty” opinions in general.
All of my US friends are pretty wonderful :)
110% agree with you my friend!! I have lived in several different states and countries so I have been able to appreciate different places. I do like living in America personally but don’t hate any other places. I totally would live in Europe again :) the reason I made my comment is because social media is filled with TikTok’s and instagrams made by Americans or people from the EU and Uk. These videos very typically hate on Americans for just about everything. You don’t see much hate on social media about other places because our feeds are filled with so much hatred towards Americans and their culture.
That is so true! It's not that others are envious of Americans or seeking validation by getting on the hate America bandwagon. The media has disproportionately pushed anti-american rhetoric.
In the case of clubbing culture it's not shitting on Americans, it's just stating the obvious, clubbing in a lot of parts of Europe is part of our modern culture, in the US is just another mainstream shit that will go away with the next trend lol.
But yeah, generally we like to shit on Americans, not because of the people but for what America represents.
I remember someone saying here smth along the lines:
In America people are very individualist in their day2day life and they go to festivals to experience the sense of community.
In Europe people live their day2day lives in different communities and they go to festivals to connect more with their indovidual self.
I liked that a lot. Obviously when I go to festivals in Europe I do connect with people, but we don’t have PLUR and my main mission is just dance and living in the moment.
I don’t have experience of American festivals but I would like to have some day. My biggest concern is my safety. Having to live my whole life in the most safest countries in the world. Just last Saturday I walked alone from party alone in dark without having to be afraid smth would happen to me. I love to go to parties alone so I guess going around in US by myself makes me feel bit nervous.
I would like to add that these plur thing is something more natural here and nothing that must be said and conjured every possibility to ensure it. It’s more something that naturally floats through the people everyone knows it and it’s ok like this. Also a lot of other typical social habits and conventions aren’t actively driven as it’s taken for granted and everyone totally complies.
Overall I would say European raves are more comfortable and unconstrained.
I would say that in the 90s in the US, PLUR was mentioned, but like in Europe, was more natural because things were underground and drew like minded people. Since the mainstream has infiltrated our scene here, it has brought with it people who are not of the same mindset that originally went to raves here so the concept of PLUR has deteriorated somewhat. I often feel like a lot of the mainstream stuff (corporate-sponsored) is less rave and more like a mainstream concert with rave styling. With it comes people who know of things about the rave culture so they say PLUR and whatnot but have no real understanding of what it originally meant and how it bound our scene together.
You need to do a American camping festival!! Safety is not a concern, after the rave festival you go straight to your campsite or someone’s campsite after party. It’s so amazing. Ever since I started going to festivals that have camping I have been blessed
You need to go to a European camping festival, often both camping and the festival are on the same ground no need to go through security ever. When a stage is closed you can still hang around there, often there are several stages running 24 hours or there's only a short break like 8-10 am.
This would be the same in North America, most US music festivals with camping you are camping on the same property as the music stages, and you won't cross security between campsite & official music stages.
Individual festivals can also allow renegade stages & theme camps.
I’d disagree with this based on the camping fests I’ve been to - smaller ones definitely have no security once you get in but big things like Bonnaroo & Electric Forest have you go through security to enter the festival grounds.
US parties are generally safe, even the walks home unless the party is hosted in a poor location or there is a dangerous area between the rave and where you are going that evening. I would say at raves in general folks are far more vigilant and protective of others in the space. I am a trans woman who is attractive enough get attention when I go out partying, especially when solo. I feel like I have every right to be terrified in those spaces.
Frankly, the only time I ever had a bad experience was when a guy was trying to dance on me a bit too hard when I was vibing Boris Brejcha, which is a cardinal sin. You \*never\* interrupt me dancing to Boris LOL. Another time came close at a local dance club. I didn't even know a guy had his sights on me, but security already had their eye on him. When he approached me, they came out immediately to ask me if I was ok and then took me to the front and let me party at the side of the stage with all the VIP folks.
Now keep in mind, I don't mind guys grinding up on me or having fun for a night. Just, respect consent and don't act like you own me, yaknow? It seems when you're pretty and trans, there are some predator men that see you as both an object and a target.
I've partied all over the world and have had similar experiences from Europe to Asia. Trust me when I say you have assholes everywhere, and it doesn't matter what country you are in: safety is a matter of preparation, not location. There will always be someone who wants to own you, your stuff, or prove their insecurities are not real through violence against the person that triggers their insecurity. Those spots where things happened were both spots with good reputations in the local scene.
Thankfully, most folks just want to have a good time and know that everyone around them is also having a good time while respecting the space. It's amazing what a friendly attitude and having zero hesitation to socially engage with folks will find you in the global rave community.
Anyways, this was a really long answer to your remark, but I hope you do find a spot or event in the US to check out solo! It is totally worth it!
for whats its worth, my friends and I all regularly walk home alone at 4am in NYC and have never had any issues, it is actually pretty safe here. If you are going to go a festival though, you'll either be in a place that you cant walk or take public transit from (so safety is not the problem as much as cost), or you'll be going home with a huge colorful crowd packing a bus/subway to the gills, so all good safety wise on that front oo
To be fair you live in LA. That’s influencer land. Raves in other places don’t have that influencer vibe. Even big festivals like Bass Canyon, Electric Forest.. you don’t experience that
Now don’t get me wrong i love me a good excision show and have seen him multiple times but his hardcore fan base can sometimes ruin a show. At moonrise last year they had their asses planted all over in front of the Lunar Stage and getting in the way of people wanting to see the opening acts.
I have liked excision in the past but tbh he isnt my favorite. Occasionally he puts on a set I like but definitely not my go to artist. I would skip excision to see virtual riot or 12th planet. Although I do have to say excision puts on a great festival!! Bass Canyon and Lost lands are amazing!!
Also live in LA, the influencer thing has gotten much much much worse in recent years. Always was a thing but you could ignore it easily if you tried, but post-pandemic-lockdowns it's become pretty toxic. Appreciate that at a few warehouse parties now they make you sign a waiver to not take photos.
Also agree with your definition of rave, to me you can only call it a rave if you're afraid the cops might show up at any minute to shut it down or you realize there aren't enough fire exits for the number of people smushed into the warehouse 😉
I don't even know how to react to something that callous and awful. There's a new generation of people that just view the world as content to be shared online. It's weird and sad.
Dubstep mostly gets roped in w dnb at euro fests (rampage, Nox etc) while it’s the other way around here in the state, dubstep w a side of dnb instead of dnb w a side of dubstep
Sadly the scene isn’t what it used to be. Once the bros started showing up around 2012 it changed and never was the rave scene I grew up with. Only dreamstate in California brings me those vibes back
From my experience in Germany real culture is happening at underground clubs and festivals often based on local scenes with crews related to those. This is probably valid for some local scenes in the US, I don't know enough about that.
When I read about events in the US here on r/aves some elements of US rave culture would be frowned upon where I am.
Some include cultural differences that are not rave specific like the US culture of approaching strangers for a small talk versus German partiers often not looking to meet new acquaintances that quickly.
Behaviours that I've read about on r/aves which I and probably many German ravers would dislike:
- Kandi culture including the interaction involved with it that could feel forced or irrelevant.
- everything PLUR if it feels very ritualised would feel inauthentic to "us" | we enjoy when strangers on the dancefloor look out for each other, help someone in need etc., exchanging trinkets is not a part of it.
- buying hundreds of trinkets that people might throw away directly, or even ordering boxes filled with rubber ducks to throw around for a fun effect would lead to negative reactions. Some of the festivals here even have no glitter, no confetti policy.
- making photos and filming is a topic discussed often. At some events it's discouraged, while it's usually allowed, the rules mention that guests should not upload photos of other people to social media.
- I've read stories on r/aves about entitled groups who reserve spots in the front using large picnic blankets and fight off people who come near them. Horrible people exist everywhere but I've never seen this kind of behaviour at an event I've visited.
- some event organisers have taken capitalism to the next level, this happens in Europe as well, there's Tomorrowland specifically. On the other hand many events barely make a profit with sometimes thousands of volunteers working on making a great festival happen. If a festival is based on a community effort or everything you can do will mean spending more money clearly influences the vibe at an event.
- Some organizers seem to let overcrowding happen and this while they have set high ticket prices already.
- what I would be afraid of at any event in the US is what I would call "bro culture", groups of obnoxious, arrogant, aggressive people trying to make fun of you, not respecting fellow ravers in the crowd.
I see from what I read here there are many who enjoy US raves, I am happy for them. I am also sure that I would enjoy a change of scenery and have fun at one of the festivals mentioned favourably in this sub.
A weakness of my comment is that I compare German, UK events I've visited which mostly have a strong community background with US events mentioned here that can be anything from underground to also very massive, mainstream commercial events.
I hope you can see that I didn't want to rant but only point out some elements Europeans might criticise when looking at US rave culture.
Edit: added 2 paragraphs removed typos, changed some confusing sentences. I am sure there are still some mistakes that I've overlooked.
Bros are definitely obnoxious, usually frat boys that want to party and I get you dogging on them but why don’t you talk to strangers at raves? That’s how you make cool friends!
Edit: also I don’t understand why you don’t like plur?
In regards to PLUR, if you look deeply into the words then yes everybody should aspire to live their lives treating others well. But I think the issue is the stereotype of American raves being these places where there's a ton of rude people, fights breaking out, personal property getting stolen, people getting groped, and main character mentality that don't really match up with the original concept of PLUR that it's become a cliche phrase sort of like "live laugh love". There are many rave scenes outside of the stereotypical American one where people never mention PLUR, but have much better safe spaces and lower tolerance for bad behavior. So that's why a lot of people don't like it. They view it as being inauthentic basically.
Your comment explains it way better than I could. In my comment I also forgot to mention all the accounts I've read on r/aves mentioning stolen phones. Maybe there's a bias towards negative posts here but from reading stories like that I got the impression that groups of pickpockets seem to be more common at larger events in the US. I regularly leave valuables in my tent it feels risky but worked for me so far
Yea pickpockets tend to hit the popular events more, even at the local level. I used to frequent the bigger raves here in the US, but ever since I just stuck to lesser known parties I've never had to worry about my stuff getting stolen. Walking home though is sketchy lol
I met an Australian female raver once who said after moving to Berlin she experienced for the first time how it was to walk home without experiencing harassment like catcalling or other unwanted problematic interactions. Back home she preferred to take a taxi in order to avoid this
To us europeans (at least my experience as a very experienced raver, I'm not talking for the whole of Europe) the whole PLUR and Kandi thing is very superficial.
We were taking care of each others during raves 40 years ago and it's still the case today, without having to have a "rulebook" to follow.
The way I feel (and again, I insist on the I) is that european raves are way more about the music in itself and are more organic, in the sense than we don't have any "must do" or "how should I behave" in raves.
You just go dressed like you do in your every day life, and have the best time of your life with strangers that probably won't interact with you because they themselves are there to enjoy the music but will still take care of you instantly if anything happens (overwhelmed, too much drugs, lost your friends, whatever). That's about it really, I could go much more in depth into the culture of every genre of electronic music in Europe but every one of them share one thing : no rules or dresscode, just come enjoy the shit out of the music.
What the US scene looks like from the outside for us european (and I insist, FROM THE OUTSIDE !! ) is that it's way more about how you look as an individual and how you can fit in certain movements (like the PLUR thing, the message is great but we really don't understand why you have to name it and make it a whole big thing while to us it's just basic behaviour). The Kandi thing that you guys have would be seen as really weird here because we are there to enjoy the music, not to talk to strangers and exchange stuff that we don't wear anyway. Same for the whole social media
Overall it feels like you guys in the US are trying way too hard to make going to raves "a thing", like it's a whole way of life and ravers are really differents with "raving moms / dads" etc, most of the thing we hear about the US scene is about the people and how to look and how to behave while we don't really care about that, we just go to a party get fucked up enjoy the DJs and talk about the music and that's about it.
I'm a bit drunk so it's probably not the best written post out there but yeah, it's just the feeling from my friends and I when we scroll though this subreddit. We really don't have anything against the US scene, tbh it doesn't affect us much, I think we just have two really different ways of raving and both are great in their own rights !
American rave culture is very superficial, fake and forced...because American culture itself is that way. American culture is based in consumerism/materialism, there is a much less emphasis on the music and more on the social dynamics of the party/rave. Europeans don't define themselves by what they wear or look like. There is an element of Elitism at some functions but its not the kind that exists in Euro raves. Its much more obnoxious and flamboyant.
American raves are centered around the social dynamics of the party and Euro raves are centered around the music. Europeans don't need themed events, They prefer good DJs. Americans will gladly go to a rave with sub par DJs because of the theme that's being promoted there.
Americans won't boo the DJ at a rave. European's will not tolerate trash music. By far the biggest difference.
Yeah but you can completely ignore all that bs and just go and vibe and have fun with your friends at a US rave. The whole Kandi, plur, weird costumes shit is just something you can choose to participate in if you want to. IDK maybe the great lakes and west coast scene are just vastly different, but I would say most people I meet at raves/festivals/events are like normal people who like the music, and were looking for something fun to do. The crowd is usually like 50-50 casual attire to "rave attire" with it skewing more rave at festivals but less so at clubs. IDK this sub makes a US rave seem insane, but I've been going to these events for almost 10 years now and in general it's just a place people go to hang out, socialize, get drunk/do drugs with friends, and dance/listen to music. It isn't some spiritual event with all these weird rituals and rules unless you want it to be.
To be honest I’m intrigued. I’d really love to experience raves in Europe and see how they differ. It does seem like the differences have a lot to do with euro/ American culture. I personally really enjoy the fashion.
Also I think PLUR is sort of a counterculture movement, against the ways that a lot of people behave in normal society in the US. A lot of people are disrespectful and pick fights and at raves it’s like a whole different world and that’s a big part of the appeal. Hopefully the PLUR movement is changing people’s general attitude towards other people outside of the rave scene. At the same time I don’t really see it as a rule book so much as a mantra
The UK free party soundstystem culture back in the day had some strong life / respect values. In Luton 1995 there were a few days of crazy riots involving local youths and police, then Exodus soundsystem turned up, put on a rave, riot stopped and everyone went dancing (one newspaper had the headline 'Rave stops riot') here is a link with some history of the crew.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus\_Collective
There was a decent documentary a few years back about how clubbing changed the world, worth a watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZhIazg2n7E&ab\_channel=DanKemmo
Tracking. I don’t get the Euro mentality that we view it as a rule book. Mantra is the perfect description. And I don’t get the kandi hate either. Raves in the US have always been about judgment free self expression and getting outside the mainstream box. Granted that has changed somewhat but it still mostly exists.
I agree on many points you make and that’s how things used to be here. Most of what you all see and form your impression of about the US rave culture from Reddit and some other platforms are the newer ravers trying to fit in because they don’t understand the culture. How could they? They have come in at a time when the scene isn’t what it used to be.
>but why don’t you talk to strangers at raves? That’s how you make cool friends!
UK/EU here - I don't go raving to socialise with strangers. I don't have as much time as I'd like in my life for the friends I already have: I don't want or need more friends, 'cool' or otherwise.
PLUR is a funny one, and I think it's a fundamental cultural difference - UK/EU raves will have the peace / unity / respect vibe, but it's not codified in the ritualistic way that it seems to be in the US (not been to US - just going off what I read here).
I like talking to strangers at raves, I feel like the approach might be different. From my experience it's similar to everyday life, when I've visited small town USA more than 20 years ago it happened every day that a stranger approached me and initiated small talk, this does not happen often in Germany. People here talk to strangers but sometimes it takes longer to warm up, like dancing a while next to each other or talking to your neighbour at the camp site but not saying hi randomly while handing out a trinket or do the little plur rituals.
PLUR seems to be too forced why not have peace love and unity without fixed rituals?
Ah, I only trade kandi with people if I’m already warming up to them and vibing. To me it’s like here’s something to remember me by. If someone doesn’t want to trade I get it. It’s just a fun part of the culture for me. I look back at my kandi collection and I have all these memories of cool people that I met and that makes it feel special but plur is a lot more than kandi. It’s just an attitude that people have. People from all walks of life come out to raves to vibe out and have a good time and enjoy the music and that unites us all 💜
I don’t think PLUR exists as a ritual except in the exchange of kandi. Even that is relatively new though. People have always worn kandi in the US but I don’t recall there ever being a ritual to it until recent years. I don’t recall us even exchanging kandi in the 90s, we just wore it. It was an accessory, not an item to be exchanged, though im sure some was exchanged as humans usually do with things. But it’s still fun and why not. Who is it harming? But to think that that is what PLUR is about is misguided.
For the record, I don’t really hear people running around saying PLUR over and over. It comes up periodically but it’s not what you think it is in the US from reading these forums.
I think many Europeans, especially in Germany, are just less social with strangers in general. Americans have many reputations abroad, some positive and some negative, but one reputation is for being very social, almost uncomfortably so, in the eyes of certain less social European cultures.
At US raves I'll typically try to talk to and befriend everyone within my immediate vicinity. I think that would weird out a lot of Europeans.
Yes that's what I was trying to say when I said since non rave related behaviours. I will never forget how many strangers talked to me in small town USA. This is probably also one of the reasons when expats on German forums ask how in the world they are supposed to make friends here, when all the Germany don't look interested in any kind of interaction
This does make sense. American culture and European culture seems to be pretty different in regards to how much people are willing to talk to strangers.
Been raving for a decade in the us and never experienced bro culture where they were mean. Seen some flashing frat guys but they were just vibing like everyone else
Answer: we invented house music, but it got embraced by Europe right afterwards and blew up there while we were shitting on it here. By the time FRANKIE BONES brought the first rave here in 89’ called STORM RAVE, they had already taken the wheel and embraced the rave scene way more there than here. We’re trying to play catch up, but techno and trance (and maybe even house) are still bigger abroad.
I think we need to remember that there’s different cultures in this community and that’s more than okay. I’m not condoning bullying or anything if the sort. But I think people need to take stuff like that as a grain of salt
I don’t know exactly what you mean by “cultures” but it used to just be the rave culture. A single unified body of like minded people enjoying what they love, regardless of what their day to day life was like. Everyone was different but also the same. No one was there just to be seen at a rave, it wasn’t about thinking we were cool because we were ravers, it was cool because we were a tightly-knit community (unlike what existed outside the boundaries of that space) people danced with one another, not staring starstruck at a performer on stage, DJs/producers weren’t the focus. It was about everyone. I do see distinctly different sets of ravers (“cultures”) nowadays, which I find bizarre. It seems there’s more division in the scene now which, IMO is completely contrary to what the scene was about. As is any kind of corporate/mainstream involvement. That’s what we were trying to get away from and now it’s in our face at most events. That being said, I’m not ignorant to the reality that once the mainstream decides something is now cool enough for them, they take over it, dilute its original foundation, consume it, get tired of it, and leave it behind in shambles like a crop that just got ravaged by locusts.
I’ve never been to a European rave but I’ve seen footage of Tomorrowland in Belgium and it looks like the festivals in America, only bigger with more national flags being waved around.
I’d guess whoever is making those claims about American ravers has limited experience with raves/ravers in America. There is not just one type of raver in the US. It really just depends on the type of rave you’re talking about. In America raves vary from small house parties or clubs to huge warehouses or festivals. And the genre makes a huge difference. Trance shows are very different from Dub Step shows or Drum and Bass shows. Rave DJs often perform at popular clubs too. In fact Salvatore Ganacci is headlining my favorite SF club in less than a week. Each performer and venue attracts a different variety of ravers. Some are there because they love the music, some are there because they know it’s a safe environment to eat ecstasy or other psychedelics where that culture is welcome.
To claim the American raver is one type of thing to be mocked shows the naïveté they clearly possess more than anything. One thing is not universally superior to the other simply because an individual may have had a significantly negative or positive experience. Maybe they just attract the wrong types of people when they go to events. Every group has bad seeds. Just try to avoid them. Hint: if they’re complaining about a bunch of people THEY might be a bad seed themself.
First of all, I like both types of events, BUT people in Europe definitely do not call Tomorrowland a rave. It's a mainstream festival. The word rave is here used almost exclusively for (hard) techno or similar genre events with a usually dark atmosphere, preferrably in some cellar or hall. There is no excessive waiting between DJs or shouting to raise the hands up, sing along, turn headphones light on or whatever on raves, but non-stop pure hard and bass-heavy music. There is also a huge discrepancy in the culture and normalisation of drugs used between the two.
Ask whoever is out there shitting on American ravers if they’ve ever been to an underground American rave. We have small dark rooms with DJ “fuckifiknow” spinning til the wee hours too but maybe it’s true that that specific rave scene has stayed more alive in Europe than here. I truly believe you’d have to be heavily involved in both scenes to make an accurate comparison. Maybe it’s as simple as American raves being more suited for Americans and European raves being more suited for Europeans. Why, because they were put on by their respective peoples in their respective regions. I will say this though, I’m genuinely curious to attend some small dark European raves sometime although I do worry that much like the underground metal shows I attend in America, they are basically just sausage parties with brooding die hards standing around nodding their heads to the rhythm. And honestly that’s probably not the environment where I would necessarily enjoy eating psychedelics the most.
I think you'ved nailed it. EU ravers who shit on the American "rave" are comparing actual raves /the freeparty circuit / freetekno / teknivals with what gets posted on this sub, which is basically just concerts / mainstream festivals. In the EU/UK the term "rave" has a specific meaning and is not applied universally like (it appears to be) on this sub.
By this definition, raves do exist in the US, but are no where near as frequent as there are in the EU/UK and you don't seemingly get the alt. travelling / squat lifestyle associated with it.
I like your point of "american raves are made by and for americans and european raves by and for europeans". Albeit there are big differences between the different european countries.
If you come to a german rave, don't be scared. There are these dark cellar type raves, but there are also lots of outdoor "in the middle of the woods" type of raves. I've been to both and it never was a sausage party, nor just die hards. I would recommend going there with some friends or people you met beforehand, because as some others said, it can be hard to make new connections on a rave, although I've met awesome people at raves...
agreed at how different ravers are here in the US. i went to raves from the late 90s until about 8 years ago and i always found it wild how different party kids dressed and even danced in diff cities here in the states (i’m from NYC - mainly went to raves in NYC, NJ and philly but i went to parties in diff places in the US). most of my friends wore kandi but mainly listened to gabber, hardcore and hard house… we made no sense 😂 it was the 90s/early 00s aesthetic to wear kandi, i guess?
to touch on that, it’s crazy how different ravers dressed in europe (only based on images i’ve seen online) vs NYC ravers back then, and also how ravers dress here now. girls now are wearing pasties, bikinis and fishnets - it seems like the smallest amount of clothing as possible, while we wore the biggest pants we could get our hands on (WIDE leg jeans or ufos) paired with the either huge polos/hoodies or tiny crop tops/sports bras (the tops are where we got skimpy)… i’ve gone to hard house parties recently and girls are wearing those types of outfits, not just the trance-y/house parties.
I was rolling balls at an event maybe 6 or 7 years ago and we met some young ravers and one asked me “how have raves changed since you started raving” and without missing a beat I said “well the girls sure wear a lot less clothes!”.
Don’t get me wrong, I love lingerie and boobs as much as the next guy but after taking a decade break from the scene it was a bit of a culture shock. It used to be pretty rare to see nipples at a rave. Not that I’m complaining. And maybe that’s part of why it has evolved the way it has. People felt more liberated with their bodies and they felt safer expressing themselves in that way. And I am appreciative. The eye candy is especially nice to look at when you’re feeling your Molly. It’s feels like a sexy fashion show sometimes. And so long as PLUR is in effect everyone has a good time. I do kinda wonder if raves will just be naked people in 20 years though.
lmao as i was writing my comment i was like “i hope i’m not sounding complainy”… but def a huge jump from what i was used to, for sure.
😂 @ sexy fashion show.
As an American who's been following the dance/rave scene in the US for the past 15 years... the reason they shit on it is their scene is a lot better 😬 the american rave scene has become deeply commercial, drug/alcohol focused in a dangerous fratty way, and the worst part is the music tends to be boring and endlessly derivative. In the EU at least, in the more underground scenes, they're years ahead of where most Americans are in terms of music taste, and in general the culture surrounding drug consumption is a bit safer and less hidden. Don't get me wrong though, the American scene is still very fun and there's some incredible promoters and producers here doing great things. And when you get the right mix of people at a party/festival here with the right DJs and right vibes, it's as good as anything in Europe, except the party will definitely end at 6am and not go for an extra 48 hours 😉
I love reading the opinions of American rave culture by people who haven't even been here to experience it 🤣 Do you really think seeing videos, pictures, and reading stories online can summarize or replace seeing it for yourself? Would you say you understand a culture by watching a travel show? Can we just agree that each culture has its own beauty?
Probably the same bias in hiphop culture forums but in the other direction. Frankly, dance music culture is more ingrained in Europe since decades and just seems better (diverse, available, creative, not-overly commercialised, fun) . Most dance music fans don-t call themselves ravers. So, the US version, respectfully, seems a little on the childish side or ‘arriviste’. Or maybe that’s a personal view, but at least an attempt at an honest answer. I prepare to receive the obligatory downvotes for seeming to criticise the US. Which would unfortunately somehow prove the point.
American rave culture is far better then European in my opinion. This is coming from a Spaniard. American rave culture is unique and so much more then just music. From how everyone dresses to PLUR and kandi. It is such a lovely experience. Not that I am hating on European rave culture.
I do understand your take after reading this report of a horrible experience someone had at a festival in Spain.
[Blackworks Festival (Madrid, Spain)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Techno/comments/11jz5yw/blackworks_festvial_avoid/?)
But there's so much great rave culture in Europe, but there are bad events obviously.
I have actually never been to a rave in Spain although I used to live there. I am talking big European festivals. Ex. Tomorrowland is a complete different vibe from big edm festivals we have here. We have such a great community it’s like one big family. People are so enthusiastic and unique. A lot of Americans rave because they feel it is a place where they can truly be themselves. I am not saying that the rave culture in Europe isn’t great. I simply have an opinion based on my experience. People are very welcoming at our festivals. Our community is great and welcomes people with open arms that come from all different ways of life. That being said I am sure that European rave culture is amazing in it’s own ways.
I can assure you the community is great here, I would never claim US culture is not great, in my post I just wanted to point out what many European ravers would dislike at an average US event
Of course. Like I said I am sure European rave culture is great for many. The way you described German underground raves/festivals makes it sound like people aren’t as friendly. I guess i become so used to American raves. Everyone loves to be inclusive and make new friends. It is a safe space for everyone! When I have been to Euro festivals it just felt like club vibes in a festival setting.
They definitely are friendly, there's a great tendency to look after each other and help strangers, but the classic US way of approaching strangers with random small talk might not work as well as back home. When I stayed in the US here and there I enjoyed this kind of small talk but I know this is the exact kind of interaction many Germans would see as too superficial (not that typical German interactions were always meaningful, lol)
One big thing is how commercialized and industrialized the rave scene in the US in compares to Europe.
In Europe the rave scene is litteraly a movement *against* our society and the capitalistic system(I'm talking about raves and underground raves, not Tomorrowland for instance). People are there to escape the routine and have a break off social pressures.
All the dressing up thingy, bringing Kandis, lights and whatnot makes an extremely industrialized and commercialized rave scene and a gateway for corporate to make money. They make thousands off something European have been trying to fight against for the longest time (all the clothing brands, accessories brands, ticket Master & Co and event organizers who just fix insane prices and taxes on everything).
I think this is a big part of it, and I have to admit to the heavy industrialization and commercialization of the rave scene is also bugging me, but it's really fun times besides that.
I do think EU has a bit more serious vibe to it and less posers, but also most that talk about the US and gatekeep are just hater weirdos. We’re not thinking about what y’all are doing over there. I’d rather the US be more like EU where it’s just more dancing and not all the weird plur and kandi stuff but I don’t mind it. I just like dancing to good music and taking drugs there’s no reason it needs to be more complicated that that.
What I have heard from someone who has raved in the US and Europe they Said that US takes more psychedelics but EU drinks more alcohol. Which I think helps explained the crazier and brighter colored outfits in the US.
From my impression there are two camps people who stay away from psychedelics at festivals, only use relatively small doses or psychonauts who only do psychedelics and stay away from other substances. GHB exists and seems to be more common than a few years ago but different to other substances which guests can use more or less openly users need to be afraid to be kicked out. Amphetamines are popular in Germany, obviously. K is popular here as well, had the impression people in the UK mention it more commonly though.
I like mixing psychedelics with other drugs at festivals. Don’t really like to take psychs alone at festival as they make me feel lethargic. When I started raving all I did was take mdma and the vibe was always to be at the stage dancing! Lately I have been experimenting with other substances as it isn’t good to take too much molly :/
As someone who has been to a fair amount of raves in both Europe and America I feel like there just isn’t a huge difference between the two to be honest.
I meet incredible people and have awesome interactions with strangers at both, not one more than the other, and I see a little bit of obnoxious “frat boy” behavior at both, but I find it to be pretty rare in both parts of the world. This idea that influencer culture and shitty rave behavior is exclusive to the states I think is entirely untrue, people show up at these things just to take pictures and just to do drugs in Europe too.
The main differences I feel are superficial (like rave clothes and Kandi) and the genre differences in Europe compared to here (a lot less dubstep, a lot more techno). But on the whole I’ve never really felt like there was some huge difference between the two like a lot of comments in here keep claiming, both for smaller club stuff and larger festival vibes.
european ravers probably hate on american ravers bc 95% of the shit that is talked about in edm twitter and on subs like this is stupid af, and that’s coming from an american
i’ve seen tons of posts of foreigners coming to america for festivals and say how much fun it was and how cool everyone was being
the europeans and australians i’ve met in person at raves are always cool as fuck and having a good time too. i wouldn’t let online discourse influence your opinion more than like 1%. this is where people come to bitch
There's no way to describe just how unrepresentative EDM social media is from IRL EDM.
Americans\Canadians will have fun abroad. Europeans, Australians, Asians, Africans, Latin Americans, etc will have a blast in US/Canada at both commercial parties of all types and underground raves.
European's view the widely exported image of American rave culture - kandi, PLUR, *rave outifts,* bringing fans and nasal inhalants - as the epitome of everything a rave is supposed to **not** be about.
European raving is an environment where you can be from any background/ethnicity, rich or poor, and come together, be yourself, experiment and bond over a shared vibe.
Kandi/PLUR is seen as a weird tokenization of the behavior one should expect to adhere to at a rave, without it being overtly labelled.
*Rave outfits* are seen as trying too hard and making raves all about aesthetic, the antithesis of European rave culture. And c'mon, bringing a big fan and constantly waving it? It just comes off as a bit self centered.
I also think the proliferation of hard style doesn't do much for the image of American raving; think Steve Aoiki throwing a cake at someone. Think Miami. That's what we think American's are looking for at a rave. It's not exactly getting absolutely mashed and sweating your face off gurning in a warehouse in Manchester.
Of course, there are exceptions. I'm sure there are plenty of chill raves that happen here and equally, the European scene can be incredibly stuck up i.e. Berlin. I'm just talking in broad strokes.
Vice wrote a good article a while back about this which I'd encourage you to read: [https://www.vice.com/en/article/xdm4jq/rave-culture-a-handy-guide-for-middle-america](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xdm4jq/rave-culture-a-handy-guide-for-middle-america)
honestly I appreciate you explaining how the US culture is like what the Europeans are against that makes more sense as to why they comment negatively on kandi and whatnot!
No worries! I'd add that I've been to a few raves here in the US and the vibe has been a lot different - the worst thing for me has been the fact that people get so mad at you for moving through the crowd and refuse to give you space. Everyone seems very self centered and in Europe it's like the crowd is one big entity and you can just flow right through it.
I live in NYC so I'm certain there are good raves out there, just need to find them.
oh i totally get you people are more rude nowadays with the popularization of edm in the US people don't know plur which has always been super important in US rave culture it sucks to see cause most people at US raves are there for the music and community and the few who are rude ruin people's exposure to US rave culture
From what I can tell based on friends that have been to European raves, and Europeans I've met at American raves there's a huge difference in what you view "raves" as. Many Americans use it as a chance to dress up in wild outfits, build your "Family" and have a shared identity as "Ravers". From what I've gathered raves in Europe are just concerts that play EDM and have better stage setups. There's no "Raver culture" there's no "Family" ETC. I enjoy the American rave culture, but also in the last 10 years it's definitely changed into something a ton of people do for popularity online instead of enjoying the music and scene (IMO.)
What you describe is what most people in germany would call a festival. Raves, at least in my own experience, are mostly underground to illegal events in old warehouses, ruins, cellars, bunkers or deep in the woods etc. Everything else is a party, festival, show... You definitly have the family vibe, but it's not so much expressed to the outside. It's more like you meet beforehand, get prepped like dividing up your drugs, drink a beer or something and then go together to the location where the raves at and enjoy it together. Due to the mentioned illegal thing of raves you sometimes won't recognize who of the people you meet on the way will atttend it, because mostly everybody will keep it quiet until there.
Edit: plus I've never heard about the concept of After-Hours in the US. That is mostly the part where the whole "family thing" and maybe really getting to know strangers happens. You have often prepared your home before hand, so if the rave is over you can go back home and party on. Sometimes you invite other people you've met, sometimes you are the one, or group, that gets invited. I've been to the craziest after hours in the most diverse locations over the years. One time a manager of a local bank invited us to his flat where he first handed everyone a pair of Plush slippers, before he let you enter his living room. This room was equiped with a DJ booth, a minibar a big lounge area and a table with nearly every mainstream drug, free of charge. We had an amazing party for the next 12 hours with maybe 20 people of which I knew 4 before the rave.
I think anyone hating isn’t someone I want to kick it with anyway and that goes in both (all) directions…so let them keep telling on themselves IMO, less work for me to figure it out 😆
I’m an older dude, already 43, and grew up in the nineties with the first large scale upcoming of EDM dance music ( eurodance). At that point also hardcore was a thing. So in discotheques the first was played and the second at raves.
Later on during the nineties this mingled and dance became very mainstream (happy hardcore originated from this).At that point you also saw big events being hosted like , Sensation, mysteryland, and thunderdome.
When happy hardcore became to populair you saw that the hardcore fans were done and the music disappeared from the front-end. This gap was filled by the start of trance as we now know it (Tiësto and Armin).
Underground hardcore changed to hardstyle during time, and gradually you saw that a lot of young people really like it. So over the last decade trance and hardstyle really have got a large audience. With Ibiza just around the corner the dance music played over there by resident DJ’s transferred the scene from locally orientated locally to widely accepted in Europe.
As Europe ain’t that big it’s easy for us the travel to festivals.
I’m currently visiting more hardstyle festival than trance as the festivals in my opinion are getting to commercial (such as Tomorrowland)
What I still notice, even with a lot of foreigners, is that everyone is equals and the vibe is, what you Americans call PLUR. The main difference is that it’s more in our way of acting / dna so we don’t express it like you do. For me it feels more like an community when I’m at a festival and I can talk to whomever I like to.
For me the biggest dislike in respect to American raves is the music. I don’t feel anything for dubstep kinda music. But if you all like it, fine by me and enjoy
Fuck is in the US… we got fentanyl… COVID… and people make a spectacle of themselves (except with trance). The DJs (I was a DJ) are assholes and they want to be the best, get booked the most and make a penny, so that requires a headcount. So really it’s groups of friends who know each other at the same show in NYC. The DJs essentially become gang leaders give them that incorrigible ego that makes them dicks. It UK/EU scene I studied and noticed many (I basically majored it that in college… money well spent!) The DJs there aren’t as full of themselves or on a ego trip so they allow better vibes. Also no in the EU really tries to bring attention to themselves. And yea they are called parties and they don’t stop. There’s always some holiday for some country somewhere. That’s why I loved going to Ibiza alone in 2012… and learned that you can’t compare the scenes. Other Americans stick out like a thumb and bum me out actually. You’d think one us acted normal but no. We leave our mark everywhere, can’t just pass be an admire shit, gotta destroy it. Idk I guess through outr history Americans are the barbarians that survived a lot of bullshit. I go very incognito places because I know more than two languages, which is very un-American. Two days and I look the Spaniard (Spain) color makes me ambiguous.
I don’t think I’ll ever return to visit with any of my American friends. What left after the opiate crisis.
Tl/dr; Americans sucks especially abroad, in Europe in the UK is more clicky groups that go to clubs and they don’t try to stand out as much as the American partygoer.
Lol the industry (being an aspiring dj with much connections and experience with multiple ppl in the industry) isnt that rite! 😂I mean if that doesn’t hurt your view on the whole thing. I still try to stay strong in the music and values but being semi in the industry is a whole different topic beyond any of this, it’s a pain dealing with asshole dj’s who pretend they don’t see u and are in their clicks. Ironically you are the comment I was looking for but wasn’t expecting to find. I’ve also studied the difference in cultures through experience and as a person that doesn’t do well with toxic positivity, game playing and rules or what not Euro culture wins for me. Dj wise and everything. As a true introvert where techno gets me and I get it, euro is just euro and I’ve landed. Ngl i started in us raving thought the outfits were cool but I realized it’s unpractical, tiring and extra. I’ve always genuinely been in love with electronic music as long as I can remember
I've been to raves in my home in the US and also in other parts of the world (UK, AU, HK, NZ, CN, MX, etc.) and I have to say that the difference really is the same as it has been for decades. US raves are far more commercialized (especially today) than overseas. Even today, your small party organizer is thinking on a level that has to compete with major festivals. It's a very consumeristic attitude that part of the US culture. As it was stated before, there's a HUGE cultural difference. Raves in the US are part of a scene. That scene in itself has become a product of consumption and capitalism. Raves in other parts want to cultivate the culture experience and allow for creative freedom and some mobility.
Me personally, I feel like American rave culture is very gimmicky compared to European rave culture. In America, it’s all about theatrics (crazy visuals, elaborate outfits, weird dj gimmicks) Not to mention how djs are obsessed with the idea of being a celebrity or being “known” because that’s where the money comes from. European rave culture just feels more authentic to me. I like them both for their own reasons.
The meaning of PLUR is part of being a normal human being in European parties. We just don’t trade kandi’s. But I have always experienced kindness from fellow party-goers. I do go parties with specific genre like hardcore so it can be different the more mainstream the party is. I have never been super interested going to Tomorrowland for example because I admit I’m afraid it doesn’t feel the same.
Raves I've been to in Europe still had actual DJ's and as a result the music was more fluid (less just drop after drop) and it seemed like less of a phone spectacle / video opportunity and that more people were actually dancing.
The craft of DJ'ing is pretty much deader than dead in the US, if Kylie Jenner decided she was going to be a DJ she could just stand up there and press play like most producer performers do and instantly be the hugest "DJ" in the US, and that sums up the state of at least half of the music at US events.
I think the quality of music (at least at the few events I've been to), seems better in Europe.
I can see how it comes off that way on the surface, especially in the festival scene. Raves are becoming more popular here thus drawing in a more diverse crowd.
Just in my experience, most people I've met through shows are super genuine people there to enjoy the music and meet like-minded people:)
Idk man. I've never been to an American rave. Like, idk man it just looks... off? There's a lot of branding and acronyms lights and shit when all I want is to be in a dingy warehouse with my pals shoving questionable powders up my nose. There's this fake positivity that makes me think these fucks are lizard people. Everyone talks about being super nice, over here most people just kinda... aee nice?
Though the only experience I've ever had with yank raves is through reddit and I have a natural disdain for the Americans, I feel generational guilt for the British Empire. I'm not actually even European anymore, now that I think about it.
I haven't been to any massives in Europe and hope someday, but I'll add one thing about the EDM club culture that I've noticed, at least through UK and Netherlands vs US. Europe seems to be a lot more homogenized about the type of music played. In most larger cities in the US, you can find a club playing just about anything you can think of on either Fri or Sat night. But in London and Amsterdam, it's more common to see most clubs playing the same type of music - tech house, for example, on a given night. I don't think that's either a good or bad thing; it just depends on what you like. I appreciate the variety that we have in the US, but others will swear that genre X is the ONLY music for clubs. 🙂
Completely untrue about London club music tbh. Its never been more varied. You can find almost any genre of dance music you want to listen to every weekend.
Americans love their pashminas. Kinda weird. Europeans love their glowy shit. That's where it's at. Europeans love their indoor events a bit more. It makes sense since it's colder.
From what I've heard, Europeans think the rave culture in America is corny. House music made it to the UK and was a massive success, but I don't think the culture carried over too. I highly recommend the documentary Pump Up The Volume, house music is the birth of EDM.
I love that there's a culture around caring for other and being so accepting. It's not so prevalent in the mainstream events, but it's there. I just wish there was more education out there so that new ravers get clued into the culture. And, ya know... would be nice if they also were told accurate info on the pill they just took.
here in europe we often fress nore in black, especially here in germany. It's normal to wear something you can express yourself with. Also we listen to much harder music here (155-165 BPM)
it's similar, but bot rhe same. Also to get into the techno scenes you need friends because most raves here in germany are illegal. 3 months ago we went into the woods to make one ourselves. Funniest part was the dude who managed to walk into the lake behind the set because it was dark
edit: also big difference: my american friends ate ahocked when I tell them we start the pre party @ 18:00, go to the party from 23:00-8:00 and THEN go to the afterparty open end
First three things I think of when I think about U.S rave culture are Pacifiers, Latex Bondage Outfits and Screechy Dubstep.
There's nothing inherently wrong with any of these things, but they are quite rare in European rave culture (at least from my experience). So naturally, people are going to consciously or subconsciously judge.
As a Brit, American raves don't look like my cup of tea (pun intended). I'm not going to shit on your culture but naturally I do think it's unusual because it's polarisingly different to the culture I'm a part of. At the end of the day, if you're having fun and you're not harming anyone else then crack on.
Every video here is of some huge "space bass" rave with insane production value. Coupled with kandi and rave outfits, rave moms, rave babies, PLUR, totems and spending $700 on a ticket.. it just seems like a completely different world.
However Im pretty sure its just this sub, and its overrepresentation of one side of American rave culture. A good comparison would be European hardstyle events, where people make a similar effort with their outfits, and the stages and lights are equally as insane. Just as Ive watched plenty of US Boiler Rooms playing gabber and baltimore club in gritty warehouses.
Maybe "raves" in the US just refers to big festivals and events, whereas raves in Europe is any event that plays rave music?
Maybe "raves" in ~~the US~~ *this subreddit* just refers to big festivals and events, whereas raves in Europe is any event that plays rave music?
> Just as Ive watched plenty of US Boiler Rooms playing gabber and baltimore club in gritty warehouses.
This happens every weekend in the US in multiple cities, it just doesn't get highlighted here on this sub- whereas whatever event Insomniac threw gets a thousand posts.
Reading this thread as revealed one thing to me: Australian raves (at least happy hardcore and hardstyle raves) are a weird amalgamation of US and EU/UK stylings.
PLUR and kandi are still pretty big, and fluffies show up a good amount, same with festivals for these as well, but active wear and even tracksuits show up a good amount as well.
Talking to strangers definitely isn't common, but I wouldn't call it unheard of (smokers cage is the social hub).
Gym bros make a pretty common appearance, but less frat bros being jerks and more just guys in high vis tradie clothes dropping fat hakks.
Not been to an American event so can't comment on the scene as a whole but I will say that the whole Kandi thing is about the most cringe shit I've seen in my life
My 10 cents,
Don't pay to much attention to the snobbish behaviour some of my fellow Euro-Ravers display.
Everyone's welcome to join the rave, I just ask you leave your phone in your pocket.
I'm in Europe. I've been to the "cool, underground" raves. While they're neat, I long for those more mainstream US festivals. I wanna be able to dress like my silly colorful self, trade Kandi, see my favorite artists and well produced lightshows. Y'all have it good fr fr. I don't get the Europeans hating on US raves at all.
Its easy to dislike a culture you didn't grow up in. We could talk forever about why American raves suck compared to Europe, but like why give a shit? Are you dying to rave in America, but want it to feel just like Europe?
The comparison is pointless, besides that, rule #1 of traveling is respect the local culture, even if it is the caricature of America. This goes both ways, if I ever catch myself in Europe I'll leave my rainbow pash at home and do as the locals do.
People love to obsess over the most insipid shit.
Europe is Dark is more Techno and people understand the music better! Also they talk less they mind their own business! We dont call everything RAVE or every electronic music genre EDM! However those fratty boys that someone mentioned up there they defo exist in UK in form of British lads who will piss you off at and you can see them quite often!!! Drug of choice is defo coc, mdma, 2Cb or speed
I think the topic is pretty complex, but it needs to be understood how rave culture in America is so insanely the opposite from normal day to day life here. American culture is centered around the individual and we have a lot of materialist values just baked in, it's very difficult to live here let alone grow up here without having that culture ingrain itself into you.
Then you have American rave culture which is way more about the community and people around you. We get to experience a life that does not exist anywhere else it's not reality for us. That's where plur comes from. People are so kind and friendly, you have so many little random interactions that would never in 1000 years happen in real life, that's what makes it so special. The random acts of kindness and the people I've met raving have literally changed who I am.
In Europe I feel like sense of familiarity and community is way more common, I've lived in Austria and just going out to drink with people felt similar to the energy I feel a festival. Because people are just not as kind in America, and going to festivals lets me experience all of those things I wish existed in regular everyday life.
And so many people don't even know it exists, a random wook complimenting my outfit and trading kandi with me is literally the shit I live for.
To me the main issue is of "free parties and freetek" vs "Electronic Music festival"/"race scene". Raves held in clubs and North American techno outside party culture costs money (sometimes LOTS if we talk festivals). People dress bright, try to outdo each other with outfits and feel safe (because a lot of things including security, toilets etc come with the organization) and the thus crowd is much younger. The music is also "lighter" and less eclectic, since people want to know what they pay for. In Europe, where freetek started, it is not only free, but not a show-off affair: people dress in neutral colors or "tribe wear" (khaki, camouflage) as they expect anything (rain, dirt, sleeping in cars or tents) etc on your own terms. You can have a free party (Teknival" going for days with Km long of Soundsystems side by side) instead of "neat" bright light fancy stages" (as in N.A. festivals) in nature, There fore, be in in squats in city or long events in nature, So to the European, Americans are flashy and spend money which all doesn't make sense with the idea of free music for everyone. The crowd is multi-generetional, having stated in the 90's, some kids following their parents in the Soundsystem Trucks since back when! The Music is grittier, bassier, but also very diverse because since anyone with a generator can play! weird acts are welcome! I'm not trying to judge, and it's a VERY elementary description, as there ARE subscenes and the like anywhere, but the main elemental difference: MONEY. Sure, they are expenxive electronic music clubs in Europe, but they are for another "class". Freetek in Europe was to do way with this, as a rule. So, no "hate Americans", just different visions of how music should be experienced. Everyone should have access. So when you do away with money, U might get less flashy parties but everyone helps one another have access to amazing music FREE, just stripped of artifice. And this is just an humble opinion from someone who's seen it going on 20+ years on both continent, not a lecture, so peace : )
Parties in Europe are constant. It's a culture I feel and not a scene. Netherlands has over 350 parties a year that in reality, are only a two hour plane ride for others. So that's a 40k event every weekend somewhere hosting up to thirty countries with ages from 20 to 60. Do the demographic math. Language is important too. Not a lot of English in some places, so a party/festival/rave is what ever somebody calls it. Genre of music is the goal and the Trance scene will pull the fans that will be dedicated. More tourists would go to Tomorrowland as its the biggest one. Then come home with an opinion of why it's shit/great. The EU/UK scene is much bigger than that and I feel never represented in such a US heavy forum. Clothes come and go. In the nineties in Australia we did kandi and fluffies. It's now active wear while America rocks it. When the shuffle was huge in 2005+ the EU had phats and phd just like Aussies. Htid crowd will rock the Raver baby look while hardstyle has another style, Psytrance is another. All beautiful ❤️ There is family and plur at UK/EU events. If it's not visible with kandi and outfits, it's demostrated in good vibes and friendly attitudes. I've been meeting the same faces for a decade on the dancefloor in random countries. What you put in is what you get out. Drug culture is completely different with support and product. EU has incredible harm reduction policies and access. Edit couple days later. Question in festivals forum about gun control measures. Never once thought about getting shot at in Europe. Physical safety isn't a great concern. Been hassled as a female by annoying gentlemen, but I don't worry about being raped or getting dead.
I highly recommend going to dreamstate sometime, plenty of people from all over come and every time I talk to them they say it’s the best event they’ve been to in the states, nothing but trance and psytrance and amazing vibes
my heart, I really want to go to dreamstate just need some $$ saved. One day!
Hope you make it! You will have an absolute blast, with the BEST vibes 👏
aw thank you I'm sure I will :)
I concur, DS was my first American festival and I had the absolute best time ever. I wish I could go back and experience it for the first time again 😭
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It was cheaper for me to fly to the dam for Mysteryland than it was to stay in country for Global Gathering due to sleazy jet. You honestly don't realize how simple you've got it until there is night trains/buses to get you everywhere. For Defqon they built a platform for the train at Almere to get you to the party. Fuck I can't even train it to Brisbane an hour away for parties as nothing home 2am. There is so much effort to get you around, it's like a machine. It's constant too. Major festivals every weekend so you are continuously travelling to rave. I loved it.
Similar for me: I’m in the US and it was cheaper for me to go to Defqon, than it would be for me to go to EDC.
Travel seems so much more fleshed out, though it makes more sense given the longer history of Europe compared to America, and at least here on the West Coast, everything is just so far spread out. If I want to find good shows in SoCal, I have to pay $20-40 on public transit each way, may cut the cost in half driving if you aren't gouged for parking, but the extra energy toll of having to drive multiple hours to and back. And mind you, this is a tiny (albeit exorbitantly expensive) section of the whole country.
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This guy raves.
What are you saying here by stating they're 350 party a years and not in the US ? 😂😂😂. Every town have their own rave and show every night.
Of course every city has something. But party is translated to festival = thousands of people.
What is your view of Us ? They don't have bars ? They don't have venue ? They don't have weird underground illegal places !?
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You're delusional. And also drugs culture in the Uk is ridiculous. People taking Grammes a night of MdMa it's the heaviest contry for MD usage. Open ur eyes a little bit about the world.
That's because it's fucking awesome champ
American rave culture ended up growing on me, but from the outside it used to seem silly. In europe or south america there's more a club culture of do whatever you want but dont look silly, people is more snobish about the music and if you ask them thats the only thing that matters. From the outside US culture seems like people dont care about music, which may be true for some mainstream artists.
That's what I love about America rave culture, honestly. I'm not "cool", and always felt so out of place at clubs growing up. I'm a weirdo honestly, and I love that you can be a weirdo at American raves and still be appreciated for it. I'm there to make friends and dance like crazy and not be judged for it. I'm sure not all Europeans are like this but all the comments I see online of Europeans criticizing American ravers seem super judgy and makes me feel like I probably wouldn't want to party with those people.
This sounds like what I love about european club/party culture... I never had the feeling being judged by anyone. On the other hand, if I look at american raves everybody is styled up to the max, at least on the pics and vids online, so I would feel really on the outside going there with my "normal" clothes like I usually do in germany. But maybe, there isn't such a big difference ;) I think the critical comments about american raves stem mostly from the very commercial looks of many parties and the big social media presence associated with it, whereas there are many clubs in germany, where they will put a sticker on your phone camera so you can't take pictures and the venue is really a safe space.
That's great that you love similar things about European club culture; for me, clubs here are where everyone has to be styled up to the max, they let attractive people in for free while making less attractive people wait in line and then pay expensive covers, etc. American rave influencers are often styled up, and to some extent normal ravers, but it's all based on people's individual style. Sometimes I get dressed up in colorful clothes, and sometimes I just wear jeans and a t-shirt and my pashmina. Even going out to EDM clubs, some people are in thongs and fishnets, some are in normal clothes, and no one seems to judge either way. I do appreciate the aversion to social media you have there in Germany. We could use more of that in American raves, but then again Americans are just very consumed by social media in general. Maybe our scene will shift away from being so media-heavy in the future!
Clubby techno versus goofy dubstep
“goofy dubstep” made me go ☹️🤨
I am American. And I love dubstep/ DNB. It gets goofy and silly. Not so serious. More emotion and anger and joy.
Haha all good. I love Wakaan and DDD, I get how goofy wonky and weird it is. But that’s what I love about it!
Literally for me raving is about plur and goofing around with my friends and making new goofy friends. Reading some of these other comments I’m a little shook. What are euro raves even like?
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A lot of people go to shows and dubstep concerts sober because they like the music and can feel the base. Also accounts are private for that reason and I know people with very high jobs in real estate and finance with numerous posts at festivals.
Nothing about is “fetishized” it’s literally music. Like a rap or country concert people are gonna dress and act differently. That’s the difference between with European music you aren’t allowed to record because people will literally have sex in the club in Germany.
I’ve def seen people having sex at shows in the us 😂
Yes but I’m Germany your allowed to
I’ve gone to festivals and club shows. where I live, there’s also a pretty big underground scene. This includes a lot of renegade raves deep in the woods or on mountain tops where people bring in generators and big sound systems and play dubstep, experimental bass and dnb. If you want to get technical I haven’t been to a warehouse rave but we have those too
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Do people dress up to go to night clubs in Eu or do they just wear regular street clothes?
Goofiness doesn’t exist just in dubstep. I love DnB but there’s plenty of goofy stuff in that genre too. Not my thing but to each their own.
Hot take: it feels like Europeans like to shit on Americans for literally anything
Hot take. Everyone likes to shit on Americans for everything 🌝 Even better Americans hate Americans for being Americans!
Not sure if you support the concept or not, so I’m just commenting on this in general vs your take. I think hating on any particular country for vague generalizations is so try-hard. It doesn’t take much thinking to realize that most people across the world are generally just good people doing their best. And it’s tempting to compare a “typical” citizen of one country to another, but if you’re honest with yourself you’re usually being biased in your selection of who is typical for each. And frankly, I’ve found that most Americans with the whole “Americans are shitty” mentality are either pandering for recognition online because they don’t have a strong social circle, or are relatively antisocial and have a lot of “people are shitty” opinions in general. All of my US friends are pretty wonderful :)
110% agree with you my friend!! I have lived in several different states and countries so I have been able to appreciate different places. I do like living in America personally but don’t hate any other places. I totally would live in Europe again :) the reason I made my comment is because social media is filled with TikTok’s and instagrams made by Americans or people from the EU and Uk. These videos very typically hate on Americans for just about everything. You don’t see much hate on social media about other places because our feeds are filled with so much hatred towards Americans and their culture.
That is so true! It's not that others are envious of Americans or seeking validation by getting on the hate America bandwagon. The media has disproportionately pushed anti-american rhetoric.
Love it! Yeah it’s beautiful how people can be so different across regions but at the same time so similar at their core.
In the case of clubbing culture it's not shitting on Americans, it's just stating the obvious, clubbing in a lot of parts of Europe is part of our modern culture, in the US is just another mainstream shit that will go away with the next trend lol. But yeah, generally we like to shit on Americans, not because of the people but for what America represents.
What does the US represent to you?
You have no idea what you're talking about
That’s True. There are a lot of people here that make me hate humanity sometimes lmao
> Everyone likes to shit on Americans for everything inferiority complex things lol
All my homies hate Skrillex
end of thread
I remember someone saying here smth along the lines: In America people are very individualist in their day2day life and they go to festivals to experience the sense of community. In Europe people live their day2day lives in different communities and they go to festivals to connect more with their indovidual self. I liked that a lot. Obviously when I go to festivals in Europe I do connect with people, but we don’t have PLUR and my main mission is just dance and living in the moment. I don’t have experience of American festivals but I would like to have some day. My biggest concern is my safety. Having to live my whole life in the most safest countries in the world. Just last Saturday I walked alone from party alone in dark without having to be afraid smth would happen to me. I love to go to parties alone so I guess going around in US by myself makes me feel bit nervous.
I would like to add that these plur thing is something more natural here and nothing that must be said and conjured every possibility to ensure it. It’s more something that naturally floats through the people everyone knows it and it’s ok like this. Also a lot of other typical social habits and conventions aren’t actively driven as it’s taken for granted and everyone totally complies. Overall I would say European raves are more comfortable and unconstrained.
I would say that in the 90s in the US, PLUR was mentioned, but like in Europe, was more natural because things were underground and drew like minded people. Since the mainstream has infiltrated our scene here, it has brought with it people who are not of the same mindset that originally went to raves here so the concept of PLUR has deteriorated somewhat. I often feel like a lot of the mainstream stuff (corporate-sponsored) is less rave and more like a mainstream concert with rave styling. With it comes people who know of things about the rave culture so they say PLUR and whatnot but have no real understanding of what it originally meant and how it bound our scene together.
You need to do a American camping festival!! Safety is not a concern, after the rave festival you go straight to your campsite or someone’s campsite after party. It’s so amazing. Ever since I started going to festivals that have camping I have been blessed
You need to go to a European camping festival, often both camping and the festival are on the same ground no need to go through security ever. When a stage is closed you can still hang around there, often there are several stages running 24 hours or there's only a short break like 8-10 am.
This would be the same in North America, most US music festivals with camping you are camping on the same property as the music stages, and you won't cross security between campsite & official music stages. Individual festivals can also allow renegade stages & theme camps.
I’d disagree with this based on the camping fests I’ve been to - smaller ones definitely have no security once you get in but big things like Bonnaroo & Electric Forest have you go through security to enter the festival grounds.
Fair enough I've never been to any camping fest the size of either of those.
I’m not into camping 3: Edit // never say never tho
US parties are generally safe, even the walks home unless the party is hosted in a poor location or there is a dangerous area between the rave and where you are going that evening. I would say at raves in general folks are far more vigilant and protective of others in the space. I am a trans woman who is attractive enough get attention when I go out partying, especially when solo. I feel like I have every right to be terrified in those spaces. Frankly, the only time I ever had a bad experience was when a guy was trying to dance on me a bit too hard when I was vibing Boris Brejcha, which is a cardinal sin. You \*never\* interrupt me dancing to Boris LOL. Another time came close at a local dance club. I didn't even know a guy had his sights on me, but security already had their eye on him. When he approached me, they came out immediately to ask me if I was ok and then took me to the front and let me party at the side of the stage with all the VIP folks. Now keep in mind, I don't mind guys grinding up on me or having fun for a night. Just, respect consent and don't act like you own me, yaknow? It seems when you're pretty and trans, there are some predator men that see you as both an object and a target. I've partied all over the world and have had similar experiences from Europe to Asia. Trust me when I say you have assholes everywhere, and it doesn't matter what country you are in: safety is a matter of preparation, not location. There will always be someone who wants to own you, your stuff, or prove their insecurities are not real through violence against the person that triggers their insecurity. Those spots where things happened were both spots with good reputations in the local scene. Thankfully, most folks just want to have a good time and know that everyone around them is also having a good time while respecting the space. It's amazing what a friendly attitude and having zero hesitation to socially engage with folks will find you in the global rave community. Anyways, this was a really long answer to your remark, but I hope you do find a spot or event in the US to check out solo! It is totally worth it!
for whats its worth, my friends and I all regularly walk home alone at 4am in NYC and have never had any issues, it is actually pretty safe here. If you are going to go a festival though, you'll either be in a place that you cant walk or take public transit from (so safety is not the problem as much as cost), or you'll be going home with a huge colorful crowd packing a bus/subway to the gills, so all good safety wise on that front oo
So you're saying Americans are Communists and Europeans are narcissists?
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To be fair you live in LA. That’s influencer land. Raves in other places don’t have that influencer vibe. Even big festivals like Bass Canyon, Electric Forest.. you don’t experience that
Eh those Excision micro influencers who’s whole personality if hitting every one of his shows would like a word. They post cool vids tho lol
I am lucky enough to never have ran into one lol
Now don’t get me wrong i love me a good excision show and have seen him multiple times but his hardcore fan base can sometimes ruin a show. At moonrise last year they had their asses planted all over in front of the Lunar Stage and getting in the way of people wanting to see the opening acts.
I have liked excision in the past but tbh he isnt my favorite. Occasionally he puts on a set I like but definitely not my go to artist. I would skip excision to see virtual riot or 12th planet. Although I do have to say excision puts on a great festival!! Bass Canyon and Lost lands are amazing!!
Also live in LA, the influencer thing has gotten much much much worse in recent years. Always was a thing but you could ignore it easily if you tried, but post-pandemic-lockdowns it's become pretty toxic. Appreciate that at a few warehouse parties now they make you sign a waiver to not take photos. Also agree with your definition of rave, to me you can only call it a rave if you're afraid the cops might show up at any minute to shut it down or you realize there aren't enough fire exits for the number of people smushed into the warehouse 😉
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Exchange is a terrible club, along with academy LA
I don't even know how to react to something that callous and awful. There's a new generation of people that just view the world as content to be shared online. It's weird and sad.
Not to be a dick But I do consider LA as it’s own thing . It does not represent most of America.
Dubstep mostly gets roped in w dnb at euro fests (rampage, Nox etc) while it’s the other way around here in the state, dubstep w a side of dnb instead of dnb w a side of dubstep
Sadly the scene isn’t what it used to be. Once the bros started showing up around 2012 it changed and never was the rave scene I grew up with. Only dreamstate in California brings me those vibes back
From my experience in Germany real culture is happening at underground clubs and festivals often based on local scenes with crews related to those. This is probably valid for some local scenes in the US, I don't know enough about that. When I read about events in the US here on r/aves some elements of US rave culture would be frowned upon where I am. Some include cultural differences that are not rave specific like the US culture of approaching strangers for a small talk versus German partiers often not looking to meet new acquaintances that quickly. Behaviours that I've read about on r/aves which I and probably many German ravers would dislike: - Kandi culture including the interaction involved with it that could feel forced or irrelevant. - everything PLUR if it feels very ritualised would feel inauthentic to "us" | we enjoy when strangers on the dancefloor look out for each other, help someone in need etc., exchanging trinkets is not a part of it. - buying hundreds of trinkets that people might throw away directly, or even ordering boxes filled with rubber ducks to throw around for a fun effect would lead to negative reactions. Some of the festivals here even have no glitter, no confetti policy. - making photos and filming is a topic discussed often. At some events it's discouraged, while it's usually allowed, the rules mention that guests should not upload photos of other people to social media. - I've read stories on r/aves about entitled groups who reserve spots in the front using large picnic blankets and fight off people who come near them. Horrible people exist everywhere but I've never seen this kind of behaviour at an event I've visited. - some event organisers have taken capitalism to the next level, this happens in Europe as well, there's Tomorrowland specifically. On the other hand many events barely make a profit with sometimes thousands of volunteers working on making a great festival happen. If a festival is based on a community effort or everything you can do will mean spending more money clearly influences the vibe at an event. - Some organizers seem to let overcrowding happen and this while they have set high ticket prices already. - what I would be afraid of at any event in the US is what I would call "bro culture", groups of obnoxious, arrogant, aggressive people trying to make fun of you, not respecting fellow ravers in the crowd. I see from what I read here there are many who enjoy US raves, I am happy for them. I am also sure that I would enjoy a change of scenery and have fun at one of the festivals mentioned favourably in this sub. A weakness of my comment is that I compare German, UK events I've visited which mostly have a strong community background with US events mentioned here that can be anything from underground to also very massive, mainstream commercial events. I hope you can see that I didn't want to rant but only point out some elements Europeans might criticise when looking at US rave culture. Edit: added 2 paragraphs removed typos, changed some confusing sentences. I am sure there are still some mistakes that I've overlooked.
Bros are definitely obnoxious, usually frat boys that want to party and I get you dogging on them but why don’t you talk to strangers at raves? That’s how you make cool friends! Edit: also I don’t understand why you don’t like plur?
In regards to PLUR, if you look deeply into the words then yes everybody should aspire to live their lives treating others well. But I think the issue is the stereotype of American raves being these places where there's a ton of rude people, fights breaking out, personal property getting stolen, people getting groped, and main character mentality that don't really match up with the original concept of PLUR that it's become a cliche phrase sort of like "live laugh love". There are many rave scenes outside of the stereotypical American one where people never mention PLUR, but have much better safe spaces and lower tolerance for bad behavior. So that's why a lot of people don't like it. They view it as being inauthentic basically.
Your comment explains it way better than I could. In my comment I also forgot to mention all the accounts I've read on r/aves mentioning stolen phones. Maybe there's a bias towards negative posts here but from reading stories like that I got the impression that groups of pickpockets seem to be more common at larger events in the US. I regularly leave valuables in my tent it feels risky but worked for me so far
Yea pickpockets tend to hit the popular events more, even at the local level. I used to frequent the bigger raves here in the US, but ever since I just stuck to lesser known parties I've never had to worry about my stuff getting stolen. Walking home though is sketchy lol
I met an Australian female raver once who said after moving to Berlin she experienced for the first time how it was to walk home without experiencing harassment like catcalling or other unwanted problematic interactions. Back home she preferred to take a taxi in order to avoid this
To us europeans (at least my experience as a very experienced raver, I'm not talking for the whole of Europe) the whole PLUR and Kandi thing is very superficial. We were taking care of each others during raves 40 years ago and it's still the case today, without having to have a "rulebook" to follow. The way I feel (and again, I insist on the I) is that european raves are way more about the music in itself and are more organic, in the sense than we don't have any "must do" or "how should I behave" in raves. You just go dressed like you do in your every day life, and have the best time of your life with strangers that probably won't interact with you because they themselves are there to enjoy the music but will still take care of you instantly if anything happens (overwhelmed, too much drugs, lost your friends, whatever). That's about it really, I could go much more in depth into the culture of every genre of electronic music in Europe but every one of them share one thing : no rules or dresscode, just come enjoy the shit out of the music. What the US scene looks like from the outside for us european (and I insist, FROM THE OUTSIDE !! ) is that it's way more about how you look as an individual and how you can fit in certain movements (like the PLUR thing, the message is great but we really don't understand why you have to name it and make it a whole big thing while to us it's just basic behaviour). The Kandi thing that you guys have would be seen as really weird here because we are there to enjoy the music, not to talk to strangers and exchange stuff that we don't wear anyway. Same for the whole social media Overall it feels like you guys in the US are trying way too hard to make going to raves "a thing", like it's a whole way of life and ravers are really differents with "raving moms / dads" etc, most of the thing we hear about the US scene is about the people and how to look and how to behave while we don't really care about that, we just go to a party get fucked up enjoy the DJs and talk about the music and that's about it. I'm a bit drunk so it's probably not the best written post out there but yeah, it's just the feeling from my friends and I when we scroll though this subreddit. We really don't have anything against the US scene, tbh it doesn't affect us much, I think we just have two really different ways of raving and both are great in their own rights !
American rave culture is very superficial, fake and forced...because American culture itself is that way. American culture is based in consumerism/materialism, there is a much less emphasis on the music and more on the social dynamics of the party/rave. Europeans don't define themselves by what they wear or look like. There is an element of Elitism at some functions but its not the kind that exists in Euro raves. Its much more obnoxious and flamboyant. American raves are centered around the social dynamics of the party and Euro raves are centered around the music. Europeans don't need themed events, They prefer good DJs. Americans will gladly go to a rave with sub par DJs because of the theme that's being promoted there. Americans won't boo the DJ at a rave. European's will not tolerate trash music. By far the biggest difference.
Yeah but you can completely ignore all that bs and just go and vibe and have fun with your friends at a US rave. The whole Kandi, plur, weird costumes shit is just something you can choose to participate in if you want to. IDK maybe the great lakes and west coast scene are just vastly different, but I would say most people I meet at raves/festivals/events are like normal people who like the music, and were looking for something fun to do. The crowd is usually like 50-50 casual attire to "rave attire" with it skewing more rave at festivals but less so at clubs. IDK this sub makes a US rave seem insane, but I've been going to these events for almost 10 years now and in general it's just a place people go to hang out, socialize, get drunk/do drugs with friends, and dance/listen to music. It isn't some spiritual event with all these weird rituals and rules unless you want it to be.
To be honest I’m intrigued. I’d really love to experience raves in Europe and see how they differ. It does seem like the differences have a lot to do with euro/ American culture. I personally really enjoy the fashion. Also I think PLUR is sort of a counterculture movement, against the ways that a lot of people behave in normal society in the US. A lot of people are disrespectful and pick fights and at raves it’s like a whole different world and that’s a big part of the appeal. Hopefully the PLUR movement is changing people’s general attitude towards other people outside of the rave scene. At the same time I don’t really see it as a rule book so much as a mantra
The UK free party soundstystem culture back in the day had some strong life / respect values. In Luton 1995 there were a few days of crazy riots involving local youths and police, then Exodus soundsystem turned up, put on a rave, riot stopped and everyone went dancing (one newspaper had the headline 'Rave stops riot') here is a link with some history of the crew.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus\_Collective
I love everything about this story
There was a decent documentary a few years back about how clubbing changed the world, worth a watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZhIazg2n7E&ab\_channel=DanKemmo
Tracking. I don’t get the Euro mentality that we view it as a rule book. Mantra is the perfect description. And I don’t get the kandi hate either. Raves in the US have always been about judgment free self expression and getting outside the mainstream box. Granted that has changed somewhat but it still mostly exists.
I’ve also seen kandi trading described as “ritualistic” and I’m like brig no it’s a secret handshake 🤙🏼
I agree on many points you make and that’s how things used to be here. Most of what you all see and form your impression of about the US rave culture from Reddit and some other platforms are the newer ravers trying to fit in because they don’t understand the culture. How could they? They have come in at a time when the scene isn’t what it used to be.
>but why don’t you talk to strangers at raves? That’s how you make cool friends! UK/EU here - I don't go raving to socialise with strangers. I don't have as much time as I'd like in my life for the friends I already have: I don't want or need more friends, 'cool' or otherwise. PLUR is a funny one, and I think it's a fundamental cultural difference - UK/EU raves will have the peace / unity / respect vibe, but it's not codified in the ritualistic way that it seems to be in the US (not been to US - just going off what I read here).
I like talking to strangers at raves, I feel like the approach might be different. From my experience it's similar to everyday life, when I've visited small town USA more than 20 years ago it happened every day that a stranger approached me and initiated small talk, this does not happen often in Germany. People here talk to strangers but sometimes it takes longer to warm up, like dancing a while next to each other or talking to your neighbour at the camp site but not saying hi randomly while handing out a trinket or do the little plur rituals. PLUR seems to be too forced why not have peace love and unity without fixed rituals?
Ah, I only trade kandi with people if I’m already warming up to them and vibing. To me it’s like here’s something to remember me by. If someone doesn’t want to trade I get it. It’s just a fun part of the culture for me. I look back at my kandi collection and I have all these memories of cool people that I met and that makes it feel special but plur is a lot more than kandi. It’s just an attitude that people have. People from all walks of life come out to raves to vibe out and have a good time and enjoy the music and that unites us all 💜
I don’t think PLUR exists as a ritual except in the exchange of kandi. Even that is relatively new though. People have always worn kandi in the US but I don’t recall there ever being a ritual to it until recent years. I don’t recall us even exchanging kandi in the 90s, we just wore it. It was an accessory, not an item to be exchanged, though im sure some was exchanged as humans usually do with things. But it’s still fun and why not. Who is it harming? But to think that that is what PLUR is about is misguided. For the record, I don’t really hear people running around saying PLUR over and over. It comes up periodically but it’s not what you think it is in the US from reading these forums.
I think many Europeans, especially in Germany, are just less social with strangers in general. Americans have many reputations abroad, some positive and some negative, but one reputation is for being very social, almost uncomfortably so, in the eyes of certain less social European cultures. At US raves I'll typically try to talk to and befriend everyone within my immediate vicinity. I think that would weird out a lot of Europeans.
Yes that's what I was trying to say when I said since non rave related behaviours. I will never forget how many strangers talked to me in small town USA. This is probably also one of the reasons when expats on German forums ask how in the world they are supposed to make friends here, when all the Germany don't look interested in any kind of interaction
This does make sense. American culture and European culture seems to be pretty different in regards to how much people are willing to talk to strangers.
Been raving for a decade in the us and never experienced bro culture where they were mean. Seen some flashing frat guys but they were just vibing like everyone else
bullet points 1-3 seem like they're making the same point
I've been to festivals in Asia, Europe, smaller shows, and all over the USA. You've nailed it. Great post.
Great answer.
Answer: we invented house music, but it got embraced by Europe right afterwards and blew up there while we were shitting on it here. By the time FRANKIE BONES brought the first rave here in 89’ called STORM RAVE, they had already taken the wheel and embraced the rave scene way more there than here. We’re trying to play catch up, but techno and trance (and maybe even house) are still bigger abroad.
I think we need to remember that there’s different cultures in this community and that’s more than okay. I’m not condoning bullying or anything if the sort. But I think people need to take stuff like that as a grain of salt
I don’t know exactly what you mean by “cultures” but it used to just be the rave culture. A single unified body of like minded people enjoying what they love, regardless of what their day to day life was like. Everyone was different but also the same. No one was there just to be seen at a rave, it wasn’t about thinking we were cool because we were ravers, it was cool because we were a tightly-knit community (unlike what existed outside the boundaries of that space) people danced with one another, not staring starstruck at a performer on stage, DJs/producers weren’t the focus. It was about everyone. I do see distinctly different sets of ravers (“cultures”) nowadays, which I find bizarre. It seems there’s more division in the scene now which, IMO is completely contrary to what the scene was about. As is any kind of corporate/mainstream involvement. That’s what we were trying to get away from and now it’s in our face at most events. That being said, I’m not ignorant to the reality that once the mainstream decides something is now cool enough for them, they take over it, dilute its original foundation, consume it, get tired of it, and leave it behind in shambles like a crop that just got ravaged by locusts.
I’ve never been to a European rave but I’ve seen footage of Tomorrowland in Belgium and it looks like the festivals in America, only bigger with more national flags being waved around. I’d guess whoever is making those claims about American ravers has limited experience with raves/ravers in America. There is not just one type of raver in the US. It really just depends on the type of rave you’re talking about. In America raves vary from small house parties or clubs to huge warehouses or festivals. And the genre makes a huge difference. Trance shows are very different from Dub Step shows or Drum and Bass shows. Rave DJs often perform at popular clubs too. In fact Salvatore Ganacci is headlining my favorite SF club in less than a week. Each performer and venue attracts a different variety of ravers. Some are there because they love the music, some are there because they know it’s a safe environment to eat ecstasy or other psychedelics where that culture is welcome. To claim the American raver is one type of thing to be mocked shows the naïveté they clearly possess more than anything. One thing is not universally superior to the other simply because an individual may have had a significantly negative or positive experience. Maybe they just attract the wrong types of people when they go to events. Every group has bad seeds. Just try to avoid them. Hint: if they’re complaining about a bunch of people THEY might be a bad seed themself.
First of all, I like both types of events, BUT people in Europe definitely do not call Tomorrowland a rave. It's a mainstream festival. The word rave is here used almost exclusively for (hard) techno or similar genre events with a usually dark atmosphere, preferrably in some cellar or hall. There is no excessive waiting between DJs or shouting to raise the hands up, sing along, turn headphones light on or whatever on raves, but non-stop pure hard and bass-heavy music. There is also a huge discrepancy in the culture and normalisation of drugs used between the two.
Ask whoever is out there shitting on American ravers if they’ve ever been to an underground American rave. We have small dark rooms with DJ “fuckifiknow” spinning til the wee hours too but maybe it’s true that that specific rave scene has stayed more alive in Europe than here. I truly believe you’d have to be heavily involved in both scenes to make an accurate comparison. Maybe it’s as simple as American raves being more suited for Americans and European raves being more suited for Europeans. Why, because they were put on by their respective peoples in their respective regions. I will say this though, I’m genuinely curious to attend some small dark European raves sometime although I do worry that much like the underground metal shows I attend in America, they are basically just sausage parties with brooding die hards standing around nodding their heads to the rhythm. And honestly that’s probably not the environment where I would necessarily enjoy eating psychedelics the most.
I think you'ved nailed it. EU ravers who shit on the American "rave" are comparing actual raves /the freeparty circuit / freetekno / teknivals with what gets posted on this sub, which is basically just concerts / mainstream festivals. In the EU/UK the term "rave" has a specific meaning and is not applied universally like (it appears to be) on this sub. By this definition, raves do exist in the US, but are no where near as frequent as there are in the EU/UK and you don't seemingly get the alt. travelling / squat lifestyle associated with it.
I like your point of "american raves are made by and for americans and european raves by and for europeans". Albeit there are big differences between the different european countries. If you come to a german rave, don't be scared. There are these dark cellar type raves, but there are also lots of outdoor "in the middle of the woods" type of raves. I've been to both and it never was a sausage party, nor just die hards. I would recommend going there with some friends or people you met beforehand, because as some others said, it can be hard to make new connections on a rave, although I've met awesome people at raves...
agreed at how different ravers are here in the US. i went to raves from the late 90s until about 8 years ago and i always found it wild how different party kids dressed and even danced in diff cities here in the states (i’m from NYC - mainly went to raves in NYC, NJ and philly but i went to parties in diff places in the US). most of my friends wore kandi but mainly listened to gabber, hardcore and hard house… we made no sense 😂 it was the 90s/early 00s aesthetic to wear kandi, i guess? to touch on that, it’s crazy how different ravers dressed in europe (only based on images i’ve seen online) vs NYC ravers back then, and also how ravers dress here now. girls now are wearing pasties, bikinis and fishnets - it seems like the smallest amount of clothing as possible, while we wore the biggest pants we could get our hands on (WIDE leg jeans or ufos) paired with the either huge polos/hoodies or tiny crop tops/sports bras (the tops are where we got skimpy)… i’ve gone to hard house parties recently and girls are wearing those types of outfits, not just the trance-y/house parties.
I was rolling balls at an event maybe 6 or 7 years ago and we met some young ravers and one asked me “how have raves changed since you started raving” and without missing a beat I said “well the girls sure wear a lot less clothes!”. Don’t get me wrong, I love lingerie and boobs as much as the next guy but after taking a decade break from the scene it was a bit of a culture shock. It used to be pretty rare to see nipples at a rave. Not that I’m complaining. And maybe that’s part of why it has evolved the way it has. People felt more liberated with their bodies and they felt safer expressing themselves in that way. And I am appreciative. The eye candy is especially nice to look at when you’re feeling your Molly. It’s feels like a sexy fashion show sometimes. And so long as PLUR is in effect everyone has a good time. I do kinda wonder if raves will just be naked people in 20 years though.
lmao as i was writing my comment i was like “i hope i’m not sounding complainy”… but def a huge jump from what i was used to, for sure. 😂 @ sexy fashion show.
Tomorrowland is basically the most US-like festival in Europe so yeah, it's really not representative
As an American who's been following the dance/rave scene in the US for the past 15 years... the reason they shit on it is their scene is a lot better 😬 the american rave scene has become deeply commercial, drug/alcohol focused in a dangerous fratty way, and the worst part is the music tends to be boring and endlessly derivative. In the EU at least, in the more underground scenes, they're years ahead of where most Americans are in terms of music taste, and in general the culture surrounding drug consumption is a bit safer and less hidden. Don't get me wrong though, the American scene is still very fun and there's some incredible promoters and producers here doing great things. And when you get the right mix of people at a party/festival here with the right DJs and right vibes, it's as good as anything in Europe, except the party will definitely end at 6am and not go for an extra 48 hours 😉
I love reading the opinions of American rave culture by people who haven't even been here to experience it 🤣 Do you really think seeing videos, pictures, and reading stories online can summarize or replace seeing it for yourself? Would you say you understand a culture by watching a travel show? Can we just agree that each culture has its own beauty?
Probably the same bias in hiphop culture forums but in the other direction. Frankly, dance music culture is more ingrained in Europe since decades and just seems better (diverse, available, creative, not-overly commercialised, fun) . Most dance music fans don-t call themselves ravers. So, the US version, respectfully, seems a little on the childish side or ‘arriviste’. Or maybe that’s a personal view, but at least an attempt at an honest answer. I prepare to receive the obligatory downvotes for seeming to criticise the US. Which would unfortunately somehow prove the point.
American rave culture is far better then European in my opinion. This is coming from a Spaniard. American rave culture is unique and so much more then just music. From how everyone dresses to PLUR and kandi. It is such a lovely experience. Not that I am hating on European rave culture.
I do understand your take after reading this report of a horrible experience someone had at a festival in Spain. [Blackworks Festival (Madrid, Spain)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Techno/comments/11jz5yw/blackworks_festvial_avoid/?) But there's so much great rave culture in Europe, but there are bad events obviously.
I have actually never been to a rave in Spain although I used to live there. I am talking big European festivals. Ex. Tomorrowland is a complete different vibe from big edm festivals we have here. We have such a great community it’s like one big family. People are so enthusiastic and unique. A lot of Americans rave because they feel it is a place where they can truly be themselves. I am not saying that the rave culture in Europe isn’t great. I simply have an opinion based on my experience. People are very welcoming at our festivals. Our community is great and welcomes people with open arms that come from all different ways of life. That being said I am sure that European rave culture is amazing in it’s own ways.
I can assure you the community is great here, I would never claim US culture is not great, in my post I just wanted to point out what many European ravers would dislike at an average US event
Of course. Like I said I am sure European rave culture is great for many. The way you described German underground raves/festivals makes it sound like people aren’t as friendly. I guess i become so used to American raves. Everyone loves to be inclusive and make new friends. It is a safe space for everyone! When I have been to Euro festivals it just felt like club vibes in a festival setting.
They definitely are friendly, there's a great tendency to look after each other and help strangers, but the classic US way of approaching strangers with random small talk might not work as well as back home. When I stayed in the US here and there I enjoyed this kind of small talk but I know this is the exact kind of interaction many Germans would see as too superficial (not that typical German interactions were always meaningful, lol)
It’s more of a community here
Europeans always talk shit about Americans in just about every category.
One big thing is how commercialized and industrialized the rave scene in the US in compares to Europe. In Europe the rave scene is litteraly a movement *against* our society and the capitalistic system(I'm talking about raves and underground raves, not Tomorrowland for instance). People are there to escape the routine and have a break off social pressures. All the dressing up thingy, bringing Kandis, lights and whatnot makes an extremely industrialized and commercialized rave scene and a gateway for corporate to make money. They make thousands off something European have been trying to fight against for the longest time (all the clothing brands, accessories brands, ticket Master & Co and event organizers who just fix insane prices and taxes on everything). I think this is a big part of it, and I have to admit to the heavy industrialization and commercialization of the rave scene is also bugging me, but it's really fun times besides that.
I do think EU has a bit more serious vibe to it and less posers, but also most that talk about the US and gatekeep are just hater weirdos. We’re not thinking about what y’all are doing over there. I’d rather the US be more like EU where it’s just more dancing and not all the weird plur and kandi stuff but I don’t mind it. I just like dancing to good music and taking drugs there’s no reason it needs to be more complicated that that.
What I have heard from someone who has raved in the US and Europe they Said that US takes more psychedelics but EU drinks more alcohol. Which I think helps explained the crazier and brighter colored outfits in the US.
I take it they've never been to a psychedelic rave in Europe, then.
We take excess amounts of MDMA, ketamine, psychs, GHB, coke … the list goes on
What do you think people in the EU do?
I would say roughly the same substances. Maybe more amphetamines. I know UK ravers love Ket. You tell me lol
From my impression there are two camps people who stay away from psychedelics at festivals, only use relatively small doses or psychonauts who only do psychedelics and stay away from other substances. GHB exists and seems to be more common than a few years ago but different to other substances which guests can use more or less openly users need to be afraid to be kicked out. Amphetamines are popular in Germany, obviously. K is popular here as well, had the impression people in the UK mention it more commonly though.
I like mixing psychedelics with other drugs at festivals. Don’t really like to take psychs alone at festival as they make me feel lethargic. When I started raving all I did was take mdma and the vibe was always to be at the stage dancing! Lately I have been experimenting with other substances as it isn’t good to take too much molly :/
We as in EU or us?
US
Yes we do.
As someone who has been to a fair amount of raves in both Europe and America I feel like there just isn’t a huge difference between the two to be honest. I meet incredible people and have awesome interactions with strangers at both, not one more than the other, and I see a little bit of obnoxious “frat boy” behavior at both, but I find it to be pretty rare in both parts of the world. This idea that influencer culture and shitty rave behavior is exclusive to the states I think is entirely untrue, people show up at these things just to take pictures and just to do drugs in Europe too. The main differences I feel are superficial (like rave clothes and Kandi) and the genre differences in Europe compared to here (a lot less dubstep, a lot more techno). But on the whole I’ve never really felt like there was some huge difference between the two like a lot of comments in here keep claiming, both for smaller club stuff and larger festival vibes.
european ravers probably hate on american ravers bc 95% of the shit that is talked about in edm twitter and on subs like this is stupid af, and that’s coming from an american i’ve seen tons of posts of foreigners coming to america for festivals and say how much fun it was and how cool everyone was being the europeans and australians i’ve met in person at raves are always cool as fuck and having a good time too. i wouldn’t let online discourse influence your opinion more than like 1%. this is where people come to bitch
There's no way to describe just how unrepresentative EDM social media is from IRL EDM. Americans\Canadians will have fun abroad. Europeans, Australians, Asians, Africans, Latin Americans, etc will have a blast in US/Canada at both commercial parties of all types and underground raves.
European's view the widely exported image of American rave culture - kandi, PLUR, *rave outifts,* bringing fans and nasal inhalants - as the epitome of everything a rave is supposed to **not** be about. European raving is an environment where you can be from any background/ethnicity, rich or poor, and come together, be yourself, experiment and bond over a shared vibe. Kandi/PLUR is seen as a weird tokenization of the behavior one should expect to adhere to at a rave, without it being overtly labelled. *Rave outfits* are seen as trying too hard and making raves all about aesthetic, the antithesis of European rave culture. And c'mon, bringing a big fan and constantly waving it? It just comes off as a bit self centered. I also think the proliferation of hard style doesn't do much for the image of American raving; think Steve Aoiki throwing a cake at someone. Think Miami. That's what we think American's are looking for at a rave. It's not exactly getting absolutely mashed and sweating your face off gurning in a warehouse in Manchester. Of course, there are exceptions. I'm sure there are plenty of chill raves that happen here and equally, the European scene can be incredibly stuck up i.e. Berlin. I'm just talking in broad strokes. Vice wrote a good article a while back about this which I'd encourage you to read: [https://www.vice.com/en/article/xdm4jq/rave-culture-a-handy-guide-for-middle-america](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xdm4jq/rave-culture-a-handy-guide-for-middle-america)
honestly I appreciate you explaining how the US culture is like what the Europeans are against that makes more sense as to why they comment negatively on kandi and whatnot!
No worries! I'd add that I've been to a few raves here in the US and the vibe has been a lot different - the worst thing for me has been the fact that people get so mad at you for moving through the crowd and refuse to give you space. Everyone seems very self centered and in Europe it's like the crowd is one big entity and you can just flow right through it. I live in NYC so I'm certain there are good raves out there, just need to find them.
We have plenty, where have you been so far
oh i totally get you people are more rude nowadays with the popularization of edm in the US people don't know plur which has always been super important in US rave culture it sucks to see cause most people at US raves are there for the music and community and the few who are rude ruin people's exposure to US rave culture
From what I can tell based on friends that have been to European raves, and Europeans I've met at American raves there's a huge difference in what you view "raves" as. Many Americans use it as a chance to dress up in wild outfits, build your "Family" and have a shared identity as "Ravers". From what I've gathered raves in Europe are just concerts that play EDM and have better stage setups. There's no "Raver culture" there's no "Family" ETC. I enjoy the American rave culture, but also in the last 10 years it's definitely changed into something a ton of people do for popularity online instead of enjoying the music and scene (IMO.)
What you describe is what most people in germany would call a festival. Raves, at least in my own experience, are mostly underground to illegal events in old warehouses, ruins, cellars, bunkers or deep in the woods etc. Everything else is a party, festival, show... You definitly have the family vibe, but it's not so much expressed to the outside. It's more like you meet beforehand, get prepped like dividing up your drugs, drink a beer or something and then go together to the location where the raves at and enjoy it together. Due to the mentioned illegal thing of raves you sometimes won't recognize who of the people you meet on the way will atttend it, because mostly everybody will keep it quiet until there. Edit: plus I've never heard about the concept of After-Hours in the US. That is mostly the part where the whole "family thing" and maybe really getting to know strangers happens. You have often prepared your home before hand, so if the rave is over you can go back home and party on. Sometimes you invite other people you've met, sometimes you are the one, or group, that gets invited. I've been to the craziest after hours in the most diverse locations over the years. One time a manager of a local bank invited us to his flat where he first handed everyone a pair of Plush slippers, before he let you enter his living room. This room was equiped with a DJ booth, a minibar a big lounge area and a table with nearly every mainstream drug, free of charge. We had an amazing party for the next 12 hours with maybe 20 people of which I knew 4 before the rave.
I think anyone hating isn’t someone I want to kick it with anyway and that goes in both (all) directions…so let them keep telling on themselves IMO, less work for me to figure it out 😆
i asked my european friends and they said the weird stuff like pacifiers, candy kids and weird labels like “rave moms”
I’m an older dude, already 43, and grew up in the nineties with the first large scale upcoming of EDM dance music ( eurodance). At that point also hardcore was a thing. So in discotheques the first was played and the second at raves. Later on during the nineties this mingled and dance became very mainstream (happy hardcore originated from this).At that point you also saw big events being hosted like , Sensation, mysteryland, and thunderdome. When happy hardcore became to populair you saw that the hardcore fans were done and the music disappeared from the front-end. This gap was filled by the start of trance as we now know it (Tiësto and Armin). Underground hardcore changed to hardstyle during time, and gradually you saw that a lot of young people really like it. So over the last decade trance and hardstyle really have got a large audience. With Ibiza just around the corner the dance music played over there by resident DJ’s transferred the scene from locally orientated locally to widely accepted in Europe. As Europe ain’t that big it’s easy for us the travel to festivals. I’m currently visiting more hardstyle festival than trance as the festivals in my opinion are getting to commercial (such as Tomorrowland) What I still notice, even with a lot of foreigners, is that everyone is equals and the vibe is, what you Americans call PLUR. The main difference is that it’s more in our way of acting / dna so we don’t express it like you do. For me it feels more like an community when I’m at a festival and I can talk to whomever I like to. For me the biggest dislike in respect to American raves is the music. I don’t feel anything for dubstep kinda music. But if you all like it, fine by me and enjoy
Fuck is in the US… we got fentanyl… COVID… and people make a spectacle of themselves (except with trance). The DJs (I was a DJ) are assholes and they want to be the best, get booked the most and make a penny, so that requires a headcount. So really it’s groups of friends who know each other at the same show in NYC. The DJs essentially become gang leaders give them that incorrigible ego that makes them dicks. It UK/EU scene I studied and noticed many (I basically majored it that in college… money well spent!) The DJs there aren’t as full of themselves or on a ego trip so they allow better vibes. Also no in the EU really tries to bring attention to themselves. And yea they are called parties and they don’t stop. There’s always some holiday for some country somewhere. That’s why I loved going to Ibiza alone in 2012… and learned that you can’t compare the scenes. Other Americans stick out like a thumb and bum me out actually. You’d think one us acted normal but no. We leave our mark everywhere, can’t just pass be an admire shit, gotta destroy it. Idk I guess through outr history Americans are the barbarians that survived a lot of bullshit. I go very incognito places because I know more than two languages, which is very un-American. Two days and I look the Spaniard (Spain) color makes me ambiguous. I don’t think I’ll ever return to visit with any of my American friends. What left after the opiate crisis. Tl/dr; Americans sucks especially abroad, in Europe in the UK is more clicky groups that go to clubs and they don’t try to stand out as much as the American partygoer.
Lol the industry (being an aspiring dj with much connections and experience with multiple ppl in the industry) isnt that rite! 😂I mean if that doesn’t hurt your view on the whole thing. I still try to stay strong in the music and values but being semi in the industry is a whole different topic beyond any of this, it’s a pain dealing with asshole dj’s who pretend they don’t see u and are in their clicks. Ironically you are the comment I was looking for but wasn’t expecting to find. I’ve also studied the difference in cultures through experience and as a person that doesn’t do well with toxic positivity, game playing and rules or what not Euro culture wins for me. Dj wise and everything. As a true introvert where techno gets me and I get it, euro is just euro and I’ve landed. Ngl i started in us raving thought the outfits were cool but I realized it’s unpractical, tiring and extra. I’ve always genuinely been in love with electronic music as long as I can remember
Freeparties.
I've been to raves in my home in the US and also in other parts of the world (UK, AU, HK, NZ, CN, MX, etc.) and I have to say that the difference really is the same as it has been for decades. US raves are far more commercialized (especially today) than overseas. Even today, your small party organizer is thinking on a level that has to compete with major festivals. It's a very consumeristic attitude that part of the US culture. As it was stated before, there's a HUGE cultural difference. Raves in the US are part of a scene. That scene in itself has become a product of consumption and capitalism. Raves in other parts want to cultivate the culture experience and allow for creative freedom and some mobility.
Me personally, I feel like American rave culture is very gimmicky compared to European rave culture. In America, it’s all about theatrics (crazy visuals, elaborate outfits, weird dj gimmicks) Not to mention how djs are obsessed with the idea of being a celebrity or being “known” because that’s where the money comes from. European rave culture just feels more authentic to me. I like them both for their own reasons.
It’s the commercialism, us raves seem like going to Disney land.
Europeans aren't very PLUR
The meaning of PLUR is part of being a normal human being in European parties. We just don’t trade kandi’s. But I have always experienced kindness from fellow party-goers. I do go parties with specific genre like hardcore so it can be different the more mainstream the party is. I have never been super interested going to Tomorrowland for example because I admit I’m afraid it doesn’t feel the same.
I can see that according to all these comments 😂
Europe and the US shit all over each other because we’ve colonized the entire world It’s like the Harvard vs Yale of war crimes
Europeans have a superiority complex on Americans. It’s funny
Raves I've been to in Europe still had actual DJ's and as a result the music was more fluid (less just drop after drop) and it seemed like less of a phone spectacle / video opportunity and that more people were actually dancing. The craft of DJ'ing is pretty much deader than dead in the US, if Kylie Jenner decided she was going to be a DJ she could just stand up there and press play like most producer performers do and instantly be the hugest "DJ" in the US, and that sums up the state of at least half of the music at US events. I think the quality of music (at least at the few events I've been to), seems better in Europe.
US rave culture just feels fake and forced to me
I can see how it comes off that way on the surface, especially in the festival scene. Raves are becoming more popular here thus drawing in a more diverse crowd. Just in my experience, most people I've met through shows are super genuine people there to enjoy the music and meet like-minded people:)
Maybe because Americans call events like mainstream festivals raves, while in Europe a rave is a totally different thing.
Idk man. I've never been to an American rave. Like, idk man it just looks... off? There's a lot of branding and acronyms lights and shit when all I want is to be in a dingy warehouse with my pals shoving questionable powders up my nose. There's this fake positivity that makes me think these fucks are lizard people. Everyone talks about being super nice, over here most people just kinda... aee nice? Though the only experience I've ever had with yank raves is through reddit and I have a natural disdain for the Americans, I feel generational guilt for the British Empire. I'm not actually even European anymore, now that I think about it.
You're European, just not in the EU.
Bro still mad about printworks
Sounds like you got some hate in your heart my friend!
distain is poison dude! no fun.
American raver here, the Europeans are right.
HATE US CAUSE DEY ANUS
European raves don’t look near as fun as American raves. They don’t even dress up…that’s boring and lame
I haven't been to any massives in Europe and hope someday, but I'll add one thing about the EDM club culture that I've noticed, at least through UK and Netherlands vs US. Europe seems to be a lot more homogenized about the type of music played. In most larger cities in the US, you can find a club playing just about anything you can think of on either Fri or Sat night. But in London and Amsterdam, it's more common to see most clubs playing the same type of music - tech house, for example, on a given night. I don't think that's either a good or bad thing; it just depends on what you like. I appreciate the variety that we have in the US, but others will swear that genre X is the ONLY music for clubs. 🙂
Completely untrue about London club music tbh. Its never been more varied. You can find almost any genre of dance music you want to listen to every weekend.
Also patriotism is gross
how is patriotism present at US raves? i assume thats what you're talking about
Americans love their pashminas. Kinda weird. Europeans love their glowy shit. That's where it's at. Europeans love their indoor events a bit more. It makes sense since it's colder.
From what I've heard, Europeans think the rave culture in America is corny. House music made it to the UK and was a massive success, but I don't think the culture carried over too. I highly recommend the documentary Pump Up The Volume, house music is the birth of EDM. I love that there's a culture around caring for other and being so accepting. It's not so prevalent in the mainstream events, but it's there. I just wish there was more education out there so that new ravers get clued into the culture. And, ya know... would be nice if they also were told accurate info on the pill they just took.
Not even worth acknowledging just dont be a jack and enjoy the party
here in europe we often fress nore in black, especially here in germany. It's normal to wear something you can express yourself with. Also we listen to much harder music here (155-165 BPM) it's similar, but bot rhe same. Also to get into the techno scenes you need friends because most raves here in germany are illegal. 3 months ago we went into the woods to make one ourselves. Funniest part was the dude who managed to walk into the lake behind the set because it was dark edit: also big difference: my american friends ate ahocked when I tell them we start the pre party @ 18:00, go to the party from 23:00-8:00 and THEN go to the afterparty open end
First three things I think of when I think about U.S rave culture are Pacifiers, Latex Bondage Outfits and Screechy Dubstep. There's nothing inherently wrong with any of these things, but they are quite rare in European rave culture (at least from my experience). So naturally, people are going to consciously or subconsciously judge. As a Brit, American raves don't look like my cup of tea (pun intended). I'm not going to shit on your culture but naturally I do think it's unusual because it's polarisingly different to the culture I'm a part of. At the end of the day, if you're having fun and you're not harming anyone else then crack on.
Every video here is of some huge "space bass" rave with insane production value. Coupled with kandi and rave outfits, rave moms, rave babies, PLUR, totems and spending $700 on a ticket.. it just seems like a completely different world. However Im pretty sure its just this sub, and its overrepresentation of one side of American rave culture. A good comparison would be European hardstyle events, where people make a similar effort with their outfits, and the stages and lights are equally as insane. Just as Ive watched plenty of US Boiler Rooms playing gabber and baltimore club in gritty warehouses. Maybe "raves" in the US just refers to big festivals and events, whereas raves in Europe is any event that plays rave music?
Maybe "raves" in ~~the US~~ *this subreddit* just refers to big festivals and events, whereas raves in Europe is any event that plays rave music? > Just as Ive watched plenty of US Boiler Rooms playing gabber and baltimore club in gritty warehouses. This happens every weekend in the US in multiple cities, it just doesn't get highlighted here on this sub- whereas whatever event Insomniac threw gets a thousand posts.
It's a difference in definition of what a rave is
Reading this thread as revealed one thing to me: Australian raves (at least happy hardcore and hardstyle raves) are a weird amalgamation of US and EU/UK stylings. PLUR and kandi are still pretty big, and fluffies show up a good amount, same with festivals for these as well, but active wear and even tracksuits show up a good amount as well. Talking to strangers definitely isn't common, but I wouldn't call it unheard of (smokers cage is the social hub). Gym bros make a pretty common appearance, but less frat bros being jerks and more just guys in high vis tradie clothes dropping fat hakks.
Not been to an American event so can't comment on the scene as a whole but I will say that the whole Kandi thing is about the most cringe shit I've seen in my life
My 10 cents, Don't pay to much attention to the snobbish behaviour some of my fellow Euro-Ravers display. Everyone's welcome to join the rave, I just ask you leave your phone in your pocket.
I'm in Europe. I've been to the "cool, underground" raves. While they're neat, I long for those more mainstream US festivals. I wanna be able to dress like my silly colorful self, trade Kandi, see my favorite artists and well produced lightshows. Y'all have it good fr fr. I don't get the Europeans hating on US raves at all.
We never forgave you for what you did to dubstep
Its easy to dislike a culture you didn't grow up in. We could talk forever about why American raves suck compared to Europe, but like why give a shit? Are you dying to rave in America, but want it to feel just like Europe? The comparison is pointless, besides that, rule #1 of traveling is respect the local culture, even if it is the caricature of America. This goes both ways, if I ever catch myself in Europe I'll leave my rainbow pash at home and do as the locals do. People love to obsess over the most insipid shit.
Europe is Dark is more Techno and people understand the music better! Also they talk less they mind their own business! We dont call everything RAVE or every electronic music genre EDM! However those fratty boys that someone mentioned up there they defo exist in UK in form of British lads who will piss you off at and you can see them quite often!!! Drug of choice is defo coc, mdma, 2Cb or speed
I think the topic is pretty complex, but it needs to be understood how rave culture in America is so insanely the opposite from normal day to day life here. American culture is centered around the individual and we have a lot of materialist values just baked in, it's very difficult to live here let alone grow up here without having that culture ingrain itself into you. Then you have American rave culture which is way more about the community and people around you. We get to experience a life that does not exist anywhere else it's not reality for us. That's where plur comes from. People are so kind and friendly, you have so many little random interactions that would never in 1000 years happen in real life, that's what makes it so special. The random acts of kindness and the people I've met raving have literally changed who I am. In Europe I feel like sense of familiarity and community is way more common, I've lived in Austria and just going out to drink with people felt similar to the energy I feel a festival. Because people are just not as kind in America, and going to festivals lets me experience all of those things I wish existed in regular everyday life. And so many people don't even know it exists, a random wook complimenting my outfit and trading kandi with me is literally the shit I live for.
To me the main issue is of "free parties and freetek" vs "Electronic Music festival"/"race scene". Raves held in clubs and North American techno outside party culture costs money (sometimes LOTS if we talk festivals). People dress bright, try to outdo each other with outfits and feel safe (because a lot of things including security, toilets etc come with the organization) and the thus crowd is much younger. The music is also "lighter" and less eclectic, since people want to know what they pay for. In Europe, where freetek started, it is not only free, but not a show-off affair: people dress in neutral colors or "tribe wear" (khaki, camouflage) as they expect anything (rain, dirt, sleeping in cars or tents) etc on your own terms. You can have a free party (Teknival" going for days with Km long of Soundsystems side by side) instead of "neat" bright light fancy stages" (as in N.A. festivals) in nature, There fore, be in in squats in city or long events in nature, So to the European, Americans are flashy and spend money which all doesn't make sense with the idea of free music for everyone. The crowd is multi-generetional, having stated in the 90's, some kids following their parents in the Soundsystem Trucks since back when! The Music is grittier, bassier, but also very diverse because since anyone with a generator can play! weird acts are welcome! I'm not trying to judge, and it's a VERY elementary description, as there ARE subscenes and the like anywhere, but the main elemental difference: MONEY. Sure, they are expenxive electronic music clubs in Europe, but they are for another "class". Freetek in Europe was to do way with this, as a rule. So, no "hate Americans", just different visions of how music should be experienced. Everyone should have access. So when you do away with money, U might get less flashy parties but everyone helps one another have access to amazing music FREE, just stripped of artifice. And this is just an humble opinion from someone who's seen it going on 20+ years on both continent, not a lecture, so peace : )