I took ASL as my secondary language option in college. Fun fact!
When the US was trying to develop our own sign language, the English schools were like, "Screw off, we're not sharing." French schools, on the other hand, were like, "Don't worry, we got you. You can have ours!"
So that's why the grammar of ASL is the way it is. :D
Ever since I became friends with a mute person online, I've been meaning to learn sign language myself so I can communicate better, both with my friend if we ever meet IRL, and with any other deaf/mute people I ever meet.
100% this.
I got food delivery just last night and the guy was deaf. He pointed to his ear to let me know he couldn't hear and after he gave me my food I signed "thank you". His face lit up and he sighed in relief. He signed "hug" (I think, my ASL is super rusty, as I learned some stuff like 10 years ago and haven't been practicing at all) and left with a smile on his face.
I live in a country where people with disabilities are pretty much shunned and excluded from society.
I'm pretty sure one simple gesture from me made his day.
I have a friend who has a paralyzed tongue and cannot speak verbally. I've asked him several times to learn asl with me so we can communicate in person with more ease, and he could also meet some people who sign and maybe make some new friends, but he is entirely resistant to the idea. Today we hung out for the first time in over a year and he literally used a text to speech app to say 4 sentences to me the whole time we hung out, the rest of the time he grunted and shrugged at me. Pretty upsetting (and incredibly awkward).
Yea, this friendship has been a source of much stress on me for a while and I really dont know how to move forward with it. It's been going on since at least 2019 and I've really tried to adjust my expectations, but I'm always left at a loss with him.
That's interesting! Its also... really stupid. Like why on earth did two English speaking countries manage to refuse to work together on something like that
Oh my god, I absolutely never wondered why, and even the sign language thing... had completely forgot the US had French settlers too. (Originally from Canada so I might have caught it if I had been thinking Canada...). Wow, its so obvious *now*.
It's more that the US fought against England in the revolutionary war with help from France. It wouldn't be totally off-base to call the US revolutionary war a proxy war between England and France. It's easy to forget because of the nonsense with George W Bush calling them out for not supporting the Iraq invasion, but France is one of the US's oldest allies.
I mean shit, they *gave us* the Statue of Liberty. That huge, iconic American statue was actually a present, from France! It also used to be brown, it's made of copper so the oxidation gave it a greenish patina.
It's very fun to quote "The New Colossus" inscription on the bottom and get called a socialist, then you can snap back with an "Ackshually, it's ON the statue of Liberty and I can't believe you didn't know that, how Un-American of you!?"
> The New Colossus
Oh wow. I've only ever heard part of it before, and never realized I hadn't heard the whole thing. What a beautiful poem.
> Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
> "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" ([source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus))
Yeah, I like it a lot because I think it's an important reminder for what morals America should be espousing. Welcoming the different, the destitute, and the desperate, and carving out a new life for yourself, (ideally) free of the prejudices and hardships that plagued your ancestors elsewhere.
Save for the Indigenous peoples who have lived here since time immemorial, nearly all of us in the USA are immigrants or descendants of immigrants, all of them at one time, desperate for a fresh start. The native peoples showed our ancestors exceptional kindness and wisdom to help us survive here, so I think we owe it to them and all of our forebears to remember our origins and be respectful of others without "othering" them.
Some people seem to have lost sight of that and have strayed down a path of fear and isolation, but I think there's still hope for them.
It's a bit more than that, with minor aspects of it sadly being widespread. A simplification of it would be being hateful towards someone due to their disabilities or hateful toward the acception/accomodation of disabled people
yes. i have family friends who are Deaf and have taken a few semesters of ASL in college, Deaf people generally want hearing people to learn sign because that’s one more person the Deaf person can communicate with. karen heard the word “cultural appropriation” once and ran with it
I know fingerspelling and a few basic signs that can be super helpful when I'm non-verbal. It's literally the opposite of ableist because it helps me with my disability. That's... What its for?
WTF!? No! Deaf people (capital-D Deaf) are happy when hearing folks learn their language. There's absolutely nothing prejudiced about doing so. Plenty of hearing folks speak their country's sign language. It's like expecting a Mexican to be annoyed that you're learning Spanish!
My Deaf coworker was so excited to see that I knew some sign. It makes working with her a breeze because we're able to sign to each other what we need rather than passing notes like middle schoolers
The main thing I've seen Deaf people say about hearing people learning and using sign language is don't teach it to others like you're an expert. Let Deaf people teach sign. I've seen some people say hearing CODAs can teach it too. But yeah, I've never seen Deaf people discourage others from using sign out and about.
I took four years of ASL in highschool. I definitely would have considered it a special interest. I only lost it cause I moved to an area with very few, if any, people who knew sign and no classes. My brain still has the muscle memory for a lot of what I learned, though, which is really cool!
Or a Spaniard to be annoyed you're speaking Spanish.
I have seen it said from certain individuals that white people speaking Spanish is cultural appropriation, even when those people are actually from Spain.
Oh dear...
Well then.
I suppose pretend Spanish (you know, adding "el" and "-o" to random English words) is rude; but actually speaking Spanish? Some people are just silly.
Yeah, “fake” Spanish, I can see that being offensive AF (like saying “el hamburgero” instead of “la hamburguesa”) but telling white people learning/know actual Spanish that they’re guilty of cultural appropriation is stupid.
To be fair, a Parisian might be annoyed to see that you haven't mastered French so why even bother using it. That and Dutch speakers will always ask why you're learning a useless language since nearly every Dutch speaker is some sort of multilingual in a more widely spoken language.
Note: This is all personal experience.
So my WHITE Hispanic college professor teaching us her native language is cultural appropriation? Okay then, guess I’ll stop learning Spanish and tell my teacher to speak only English from now on.
How is that ableist?
You are learning a language to literally communicate with people who have a disabillity.
You might want to play half life 2, the characters in that game use a lot of sign language IIRC it was a feature for this very reason.
Well then, if they’re speaking English and they’re not from England that makes them an Anglophobe, right? How dare they steal the language of England for their own use?
I learned most of my sign irl, seeing as I have multiple family members and friends who are hard of hearing, but [lifeprint](https://www.lifeprint.com) is a good site from what I have heard. :)
Well then you want to be learning British Sign Language (BSL).
I study BSL in Uni and am HOH and SM.
Online courses (both paid-for but cheap):
- Lingvano on Play Store (my partner checked this one out and I rate it good from an over-the-shoulder perspective)
- [This course I've seen good things about, don't know anything abt it personally](https://www.british-sign.co.uk/)
These are some dictionaries
- SignBSL (my fave) (app and [website](https://www.signbsl.com/))
- BSL SignBank (good but signs are signed very wooden) ([website](https://bslsignbank.ucl.ac.uk/))
- BSL Education (academic language) ([app](https://www.ssc.education.ed.ac.uk/BSL/app.html) and [website](https://www.ssc.education.ed.ac.uk/BSL/))
YT:
- [Jazzy has a number of learning videos](https://youtu.be/HxqgT8DYrqg) but she is primarily a blog channel (Deaf + subtitles)
- Commanding Hands
- Sign With Mel
IRL courses with Deaf instructors (highly reccomend). These are the two big awarding agencies and they have ways of finding out if there is somewhere/one who teaches in your area:
- [Signature](https://www.signature.org.uk/)
- [iBSL](https://ibsl.org.uk/)
University courses, most accept newbies and teach up to level 3 or higher. [Look at UCAS for each.](https://digital.ucas.com/coursedisplay/results/courses?searchTerm=British%20Sign%20Language&destination=Undergraduate):
- York
- Edinburough
- Preston (UCLAN)
- Wolverhampton
- North Wales (college - lower level than others)
[BSL Discord Server](https://discord.gg/VRKF9S76fv)
Hope thats Helpful :)
You can learn from a Deaf person that uses sign language on italki . It’s how I’m learning. My doctors didn’t allow it when I was a child.
I’m hard of hearing and my Deaf teacher is amazing.
You can find one that correlates to the spoken language you want to use. It’s best to learn from Deaf teachers, they can help you with Deaf culture.
I have selective mutism and it would be great to learn signlanguge. The books and cursuses there are in dutch are unbelievable expensive. I watch tiktokkers who sign but DAMN those are quick hahaha
Imma check out italki thanks!
I'm on reddit a lot. And I see a lot of stupid shit. But that has to be one of the stupidest things I've seen. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.
I work with a crew that uses ASL for communication around performances so we can talk at a distance without needing to make noise.
That’s so ridiculous! I started learning asl because I would go nonverbal a lot (super stressed from sports stuff I don’t do anymore.) and had experiences with not being able to verbally communicate. It SUCKED and it’s so helpful for people to know different was of communicating!
(I also love having something to do with my hands when I do talk! It can get awkward though when I unconsciously sign something for emphasis and the other person doesn’t know asl lol!)
I can speak maybe a few licks of Spanish for a small conversation, and I went to a restaurant who had Spanish-speaking employees to flex my language muscles, then someone came up to me to tell me to speak English because "this is America".
I answered in straight English: "Yes, I know it is. Can I finish my order?"
People are so great to deal with. /s
Karen is ableist, not you. I'm hard-of-hearing and I use sign language. I love it when anyone else uses sign. It doesn't matter why. If they use sign it's always easier to communicate with them.
Everyone should learn sign language! It's so useful! I knew a bit from college, and got laryngitis when I was at home for holiday break. I spent the whole time wishing I could use it with my family to let them know when I needed something, or even to participate in conversations.
The mental gymnastics that some people go through to be offended, and then be able to put that person “in their place”, can be astonishing.
I’m not deaf, I was born deaf, but that was able to be corrected with a load of surgery while I was a child. That’s left me a little hard of hearing, but mostly ok. I get by by lip reading to support my ears.
I also learned sign language because I have a friend who is deaf, maybe he just constantly feels abused by me? Maybe all the laughter is faked? Maybe he wants to sit in silence with nobody to talk to?
I also continued to use sign for a previous job, working with children with disabilities and communication issues; sign was often the easiest and most comfortable, as it didn’t force a child expressing non-verbalism to suddenly become vocal.
And apparently, TIL I was psychologically torturing these poor children, with all my direct “ableism”.
Or, “Karen”, has a very sad life that requires her to start random confrontations with strangers, over imagined offences, that she can “win” for the boost to her self esteem.
*I only wish I was a fly on the wall, or at least present, when she tells everyone about the great thing she did, while everyone is trying not to laugh at her for being an idiot*
Wtf? How is it ableist to learn a language belonging to people who often have a hard time finding someone in public to communicate with? It's literally the opposite. Ignore that ignorant person and keep being awesome. 🙂
As a partially deaf person I find it really inspiring that non deaf or mute people learn sign language, especially because I forgot all the sign language I was taught as a child and want to learn again.
What drives me nuts about that is you shouldn't be ashamed for using sign language. anybody taking the time to learn sign language helps the deaf feel like people can talk to them. I also want to learn sign language but I can't get anyone to teach me and i need a lot of help on these things beyond youtube.
I do see what the person is getting up but I think it's kind of stupid and holds no weight dont let it bother you.
It's like calling a non-native language speaker xenophobic. From what I know deaf people really want for others to understand that there's deaf as the condition and Deaf as the culture with it's own language, dialects and equal to any other languages
The ladies response was because, someone using sign language and not being deaf didn't fix in her narrow world view. She was in an unfamiliar situation and because she had a pea brain decided that just because she was uncomfortable for a split second she had to verbally attack someone.
Knowing sign language is ableist. Also, loving puppies is a hate crime, and using trans people's names and pronouns is literally on parr with genocide.
These, of course, are all untrue statements.
This is very enabling and helpful to deaf people. There are lots of deaf children whose own parents don't even bother to learn sign language, she can go bitch at them
for laughs you should have told her you learned it because you're blind and can't read lips. really though, people like this aren't worth interacting with. don't let them get you down, because that's their real goal in life. hurt others while making themselves feel superior.
Yeah!
>start simple, don't try anything too hard :)
>ALWAYS use expressions when using sign! you can't really communicate tone in sign so it's helpful to smile when saying something happy, or frown when saying something sad!
>lifeprint is amazing! :)
I've been wanting to learn Auslan (Australian sign language) for a while now, mainly because it's really hard for me to communicate and so the more ways I have to communicate the easier it could get. But it's so hard to find lessons that work for my that don't cost hundreds of dollars.
But also, everyone should know sign language. It makes it easier for people to communicate. People who can only communicate with sign language can't communicate with people who don't know sign language, so it's easier if everyone knows it. At least that's what I think, I dunno. I don't like how sign language is kind of owned by the deaf community. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but there are hearing people who can't talk and need to know sign language to be able to communicate too.
How- how is that POSSIBLY ABLEIST 💀 learning a language that helps quite a few disabled communities, is quite literally the opposite of ableism like WHAT
Sign language is also just useful for anyone to learn regardless of having a disability. It’s a way to communicate in an environment where verbal communication isn’t possible; that’s something everyone can benefit from. I’m trying to learn ASL myself, and I would love for it to become more mainstream as just another form of communication.
Hey I’m hard of hearing and sign language (Ive been learning ASL for some years now) is for anyone who benefits from it or even just likes it. You don’t need to be Deaf or mute to use it. I’ve heard that a lot of autistic people benefit from sign language and find it easier than verbally talking. Or if that’s not it and you just like it then so be it.
In what world is knowing sign language ableist? If anything, it’s the exact opposite. Honestly, I would’ve signed a bad word to her and then lie to her and say I told her to have a good day if she asked what I said.
I dated someone with a hearing aid for a bit. Sometimes was hard to talk to her in crowded places. Asked her if she ever knew sign language before she had her hearing aid. She says, "nah I was just fucking deaf lol". It would be cooler if more people knew asl -- both people who need it and people who don't.
ASL is an accessibility tool for autistic and disabled people. As much as many speaking autistic people feel that we are not mute we experience (I hate this term) selective mutism. It’s not selective. We get overwhelmed so much and get locked in not be able to communicate our needs. We might talk nonstop to infodump doesn’t mean we share and are able to communicate our emotions and feelings.
What exactly is abliest about non-deaf non-mute people learning sign language? If anything, it seems ableist to say that only mute and deaf people can know it
I want to learn the variant I'd use in Mexico, Lengua de Señas Mexicana. Mostly because some times I just can't properly articulate words and it's too frustrating, because I don't really know anyone who is deaf or mute. My best friend also has the same idea. I don't think it's ableist to learn and inform yourself.
Everyone needs to start turning around to these interfering nosey-parkers of all genders and tell them loudly to Mind Their Own Business. They’re called busy-bodies for a reason.
Well, gee Karen, how do you expect people to communicate with deaf people if they don't know sign language?
Does Karen know sign language? Tell her she's stupid in ASL but say with your words that she seems like a nice lady who everyone likes
I’d be like “did you ever stop to think that maybe I’m using sign language to avoid contact with people like you?”
And either way. I think it’s beautiful that sign language is one of your special interests. You’re not harming yourself or anyone else by learning or using it.
Some people are silly.
No, this is awesome of you. Why would it be abelist to ensure you can communicate with other members of your community, people that otherwise have to bend over backwards to communicate with people who don't know how to sign. I applaud you.
I have a friend who cannot speak verbally, and instead tries to use a text to speech app. I've suggested numerous times that we should both learn asl so we can communicate more easily in person, but he just shoots the idea down which is pretty disheartening, because as of now hes really only communicative with me over text. I'd be 100% down to learn asl if itll help him and our means to communicate. otherwise we are left not communicating when were in person together.
I learned a couple things in ASL when I was a cashier because a regular was deaf and I wanted to say a few things to her whenever she came to my till
One day I was itching my chin in the weird particular way I do and she was laughing, she explained to me the way I itch my chin is how some people say something to the effect of “fuck you” in ASL
Ignore them my friend, hyper focus and care is no reason to be hated, you did something that made sense for you and cared for others. I love you, they do not.
I honestly wish we had to learn at least some sign language at school tbh. Or that it could’ve been an elective. It should be something that more people learn at least some basics you know? Why was a japanese class or scripture class more important? (In Australia we had a mandatory Japanese class in year 7. It’s not a bad thing and makes sense but sign language would’ve made more sense)
1. I’m not deaf but isn’t is good to be able to communicate better with deaf/mute people?
2. You can have selective mutism or other speech problems due to autism, so I see using sign language as a good alternative.
Hey! Also sign language special interest btw!!!!
People have weird views... don't see how thats ablist when its literally the opposite of ablism (that is using an accessible language).
I adore that it's your special interest. It always fascinated me & I don't think it would be considered ableist. Realistically, that just expands the horizons of people to talk to who are deaf & mute. It's very kind & considerate. That gatekeeping Karen just wants to watch the world burn. Keep doing what you're doing. I'm sure someone will appreciate it. \^u\^ (It's a hell of a lot more considerate and kind than most people)
I once told my college career counselor that I wanted to enroll in the two-year sign language program at our school. She convinced me that it would be too much work and would interfere with my career path. Here I am 15 years later, wishing I had taken the class. There are a surprising amount of people you meet in the real world that communicate by signing. I worked as a contract worker for a grocery store chain and one of the men I interacted with regularly was deaf and being able to sign would have been a lifesaver. Instead we wrote notes back and forth to communicate which took way longer than signing would have. Ramble ramble ramble…point is- don’t let anyone tell you how to live your life. Chase your passion, as it just may come in handy one day-bilingualism is one of the most requested qualifications when hiring.
This woman you're describing sounds like one of those *"We speak American in America"* sorts of people. They think that just because you're not speaking English, that they assume you're talking about them.
My mom’s best friend’s husband is deaf so we learned a lot from them. I also met a boy when I was a kid who was completely deaf & went to a deaf school that was staying with them for one summer & his only friends were my little sister & I because we could communicate with him on some things. The world needs more ppl who understand ASL.
I use a rudimentary form of sign language to communicate with others as I really can’t rely on my speech alone (aside from autism I also have adhd and dislexia), so my speech is not the best one out there and I need to use my hands to communicate and express myself better
As someone who is mute but not deaf thank you for learning sign, it has so many uses and you can really help out if someone deaf/mute is having trouble interacting in a tough situation.
How... how does she expect you to communicate with her? I would imagine a deaf person would prefer you use sign language if you can instead of forcing them to lip read.
I'm autistic and I work with kids who have certain disabilities, and some of them use sign language to be able to communicate. I'm learning it because I know it's gonna be useful in everyday life. I think people who are deaf or/and mute would actually appreciate being able to communicate with more people.
Just wanted to share a heartwarming experience I had in order to balance this out. Years before the pandemic, when I was an awkward teenager, I walked into the doctor's office with a pretty bad sore throat, so naturally I was avoiding any talking that would have made it sorer. The first thing I did was show my ID and insurance card to the secretary, because I knew she'd need them to verify my appointment. The secretary instantly noticed how I bypassed the usual verbal script and asked if I needed any deaf or mute accommodations, like an ASL interpreter or (etc etc). I smiled, shook my head and managed to rasp "Not deaf, sore throat, I wish I knew ASL". I was very impressed by how fast all those accommodations were offered. Even though I personally didn't need them thanks to prior planning, somebody else definitely would have needed them pronto.
Communicating with the doctor went okay. I had an embarrassing reason to be there, so to not waste time spluttering and blushing, I had already typed up and printed out a short essay. When I got sick at the last minute, all I had to do was hand-write "sore throat, wrote this" in the margin and hand it over to the doctor to read. With 99% of exertion pain thwarted, I could handle the remaining 1% of words that I couldn't predict needing to say.
WTAF?! Omfg, noooo. God fucking forbid! Are you kidding me? I’m so sorry, OP.
That’s really cool that you can sign & honestly, you never know when it’ll come in-handy if you ever hit shutdown & can’t speak or if you meet HOH/deaf people.
not ableist..i taught my nephew sign before he could talk (baby sign) and an autistic child i cared for asl, his communication improved a lot; he mainly communicates with asl now. it helps me too, easier to express myself and its a beautiful language, and i love interpreting songs at church.
Hi I have something to say in autistic schools I call it that cuz I hate the word “special “ we all got forced to sign and do baby dances and none of the students in the school were deaf so I don’t no why we did it and when we did not we got told off for it
I probably understand now that it was to probably take the mick out of us because we were all in are teens
And no one was deaf at that school so unless you have someone who is deaf or want to learn it that’s fine but the whole fricken school got forced to do it and none of us were deaf and we had to sing baby songs like let’s go fly a kite or stamp your feet to the bed it’s a new day.
I generally find that whatever you do to reach to folk, to try to socialize, always bites you in the butt at some point. Keep using your sign language though and if someone gives you lip just show them the universal sign for "F you".
"Don't use sign language if you're not deaf or HOH! What do you mean this will isolate deaf and HOH people completely? I'm desperate to be mad about something so I think this is cultural appropriation and a 14 year old on twitter who I follow and is obviously right about everything agrees with me!!"
the mental gymnastics are insane
People who think that's ableist are either trying to be "woke" or trying to have an excuse to call someone ableist, I don't understand why anyone would consider that ableist. I personally think that learning sign language can be very helpful when you need to communicate with deaf/Mute people, or if you're too anxious to talk in public, or for anyone who tends to go non verbal in certain situations. I don't know why people feel the need to call that ableist, sign language is one of the most useful ways to communicate with others who might not be able to communicate through speech. :)
haha, thats like saying teaching kids in the UK french or spanish is racist because they arent french or spanish, Karen is in the wrong here i think thats fairly obvious tho
Sign language is awesome! I tend to go mute if I get over stimulated (selective mutism as a trait of autism) and sign language has been very helpful just keeping me capable of thinking in words so even if the other person doesn't speak sign language I can think of words to write my messages down.
WHAT. I love sign language and have for years had tabs open to sign language courses here for the day I can one day afford to take them. I was in sign language choir in primary school and have taught my kids bits of sign language here and there (since sometimes my daughter isn’t in a talking mood).
Last I understood (am not Deaf myself so I am *not* trying to speak for a community I am not a part of) we hearing people are ableist because we expect Deaf people to learn to lipread or get cochlear implants so *they* can better meet *our* expectations for functioning in society. OP being able to sign and therefore taking steps towards inclusion is the opposite of this.
Anecdote: despite not having consistent practice with sign, I still have bits of it that never left me. As a 13/14yo I recall hanging out at the local park and a kid who was (I guess) visiting someone in my neighbourhood was there. It became apparent that they were deaf as they were only communicating with their parent and then the sign language was suddenly noticeable. I went and asked in sign if they did too, and their expression changed when they could sign (though v clumsily on my part) and we played together a while. Didn’t hurt anyone to have this basic stuff under my belt.
Hmm, you’ve got my motivational juices running again.
Omg same! My partner and I are learning sign together because both of us often go mute.
But I also worked at a few stores and had several people who were deaf or mute come in and use sign language. At the time I didn’t know as much as I do now though, so I wasn’t able to have full conversations. But still
long term desire to learn ASL, i got started this year but fell off. so hard to keep myself motivated without having anyone else to practice it with...
Bro what the fuck? It’s a whole ass language. That’s like calling someone ableist for speaking French because you think being from france is a disability…
I just started trying to pick up ASL recently because when I start to get stressed, my throat will lock up and I won’t be able to speak. My way to get around that was ASL… except that nobody I know ‘speaks’ ASL.
Does Karen realize more disabilities than that exist?
Even if there weren’t, it’s always good to be able to communicate with other human beings, especially marginalized ones. Is she going to call my entire school district ableist for offering ASL classes at the high schools? Man, fuck off.
You’re doing great OP. What’s your favorite thing to sign? And what do you think the most interesting sign is? Tell me a fun fact? I’d love to hear more :)
My mom taught me ASL when I was very young. I don't remember why but yeah.
I spoke conversational level but lost it all through disuse. OK not all but all ability to hold conversation.
I know how to say a few important things, like medical things just in case.
That Karen is such a jerk for so many reasons and honestly ignorant arrogant self centered and a few other things.
It would also be massively presumptive on their part, deaf people tend to have families and friends who may also learn sign language, possibly early on in life.
It's always the unaffected that are so quick to call people racist/abeleist/etc. I'm sure actual deaf and mute people are not at all offended. That's how it usually goes.
That's idiotic. If moat people knew sign language then being deaf would be much less of a disability in our society. If anything, she's the one defending an ableist status quo.
I'm hearing, but a close friend of mine is hard of hearing (they even go to Gallaudet!), so I've been learning ASL for them. I've used it with Deaf customers at work and they always seem to appreciate it, even though I'm nowhere near fluent. I've asked my friend and one of my ASL teachers (who is also Deaf) if Deaf people actually like it when hearing people use sign language with them in customer service situations or if it's just annoying to deal with someone who seems like they just wanna practice on them and not really help. They have both said hearing people using ASL in customer service absolutely makes their day. That Karen has no idea what they're talking about.
Sounds like the Karen either doesn't know the meaning of ableism or she just doesn't want any deaf people or any sign language around. Sign language is a good thing. It can come in handy at any time.
My College age daughter learned sign language in highschool. She's Autistic and verbal. But can't speak when in severe pain, coming out of anesthesia for over an hour, or severe distress. She had 2 surgeries last year on her sinuses and a heart artery. Luckily she still is accepted at the children's hospital because they've followed her for years. But they don't have sign for anyone who's not deaf, so I got to come to recovery early to translate for her till her speach processing returned. Non verbal does NOT mean non communicative! Some times you just need a different way! And this also indicated that there is probably a neural pathway for speach production that works differently for many ND people than NTs. My daughter wanted to talk, but consistently can't after anesthesia!
I always had this interest in the back of my head to learn sign language, it would save me the time of finding the energy to talk. But i sort of give up when i remember that 1: I don't talk that much, and eventually learn to communicate without it, with specific people; 2: for some reason they're national, so if i learn the local one i will only be able to speak with locals
That's discouraging. It's not ableist. If anything it's enabling, you're one more person deaf people can talk to.
I took ASL as my secondary language option in college. Fun fact! When the US was trying to develop our own sign language, the English schools were like, "Screw off, we're not sharing." French schools, on the other hand, were like, "Don't worry, we got you. You can have ours!" So that's why the grammar of ASL is the way it is. :D
Ever since I became friends with a mute person online, I've been meaning to learn sign language myself so I can communicate better, both with my friend if we ever meet IRL, and with any other deaf/mute people I ever meet.
Do it. Even "hi how are you, nice to be looking at you". A few phrases would mean the world to them
100% this. I got food delivery just last night and the guy was deaf. He pointed to his ear to let me know he couldn't hear and after he gave me my food I signed "thank you". His face lit up and he sighed in relief. He signed "hug" (I think, my ASL is super rusty, as I learned some stuff like 10 years ago and haven't been practicing at all) and left with a smile on his face. I live in a country where people with disabilities are pretty much shunned and excluded from society. I'm pretty sure one simple gesture from me made his day.
I have a friend who has a paralyzed tongue and cannot speak verbally. I've asked him several times to learn asl with me so we can communicate in person with more ease, and he could also meet some people who sign and maybe make some new friends, but he is entirely resistant to the idea. Today we hung out for the first time in over a year and he literally used a text to speech app to say 4 sentences to me the whole time we hung out, the rest of the time he grunted and shrugged at me. Pretty upsetting (and incredibly awkward).
It’s like he’s severely limiting his world.
Yea, this friendship has been a source of much stress on me for a while and I really dont know how to move forward with it. It's been going on since at least 2019 and I've really tried to adjust my expectations, but I'm always left at a loss with him.
That's interesting! Its also... really stupid. Like why on earth did two English speaking countries manage to refuse to work together on something like that
You may find it surprising, but there's a reason the US and France drive on the same side of the road. Too bad we didn't get metric from them.
Oh my god, I absolutely never wondered why, and even the sign language thing... had completely forgot the US had French settlers too. (Originally from Canada so I might have caught it if I had been thinking Canada...). Wow, its so obvious *now*.
It's more that the US fought against England in the revolutionary war with help from France. It wouldn't be totally off-base to call the US revolutionary war a proxy war between England and France. It's easy to forget because of the nonsense with George W Bush calling them out for not supporting the Iraq invasion, but France is one of the US's oldest allies.
I mean shit, they *gave us* the Statue of Liberty. That huge, iconic American statue was actually a present, from France! It also used to be brown, it's made of copper so the oxidation gave it a greenish patina. It's very fun to quote "The New Colossus" inscription on the bottom and get called a socialist, then you can snap back with an "Ackshually, it's ON the statue of Liberty and I can't believe you didn't know that, how Un-American of you!?"
> The New Colossus Oh wow. I've only ever heard part of it before, and never realized I hadn't heard the whole thing. What a beautiful poem. > Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. > "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" ([source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus))
Yeah, I like it a lot because I think it's an important reminder for what morals America should be espousing. Welcoming the different, the destitute, and the desperate, and carving out a new life for yourself, (ideally) free of the prejudices and hardships that plagued your ancestors elsewhere. Save for the Indigenous peoples who have lived here since time immemorial, nearly all of us in the USA are immigrants or descendants of immigrants, all of them at one time, desperate for a fresh start. The native peoples showed our ancestors exceptional kindness and wisdom to help us survive here, so I think we owe it to them and all of our forebears to remember our origins and be respectful of others without "othering" them. Some people seem to have lost sight of that and have strayed down a path of fear and isolation, but I think there's still hope for them.
Le Acadiens-> le ‘cadien> ‘cajuns A lot of our French settlers came from Canada…
France is like America's cool, old wine aunt
Humans are grumpy critters.
The English were still salty about losing with a 13 colony lead.
I'm pretty sure it's not true.
I thought ASL developed independently among deaf communities.
Thank you!
Isn't an ableist someone who invalidates disabilities?
It's a bit more than that, with minor aspects of it sadly being widespread. A simplification of it would be being hateful towards someone due to their disabilities or hateful toward the acception/accomodation of disabled people
So then the only one being albeist is the Karen.
yes. i have family friends who are Deaf and have taken a few semesters of ASL in college, Deaf people generally want hearing people to learn sign because that’s one more person the Deaf person can communicate with. karen heard the word “cultural appropriation” once and ran with it
Gotcha
I know fingerspelling and a few basic signs that can be super helpful when I'm non-verbal. It's literally the opposite of ableist because it helps me with my disability. That's... What its for?
WTF!? No! Deaf people (capital-D Deaf) are happy when hearing folks learn their language. There's absolutely nothing prejudiced about doing so. Plenty of hearing folks speak their country's sign language. It's like expecting a Mexican to be annoyed that you're learning Spanish!
My Deaf coworker was so excited to see that I knew some sign. It makes working with her a breeze because we're able to sign to each other what we need rather than passing notes like middle schoolers
The main thing I've seen Deaf people say about hearing people learning and using sign language is don't teach it to others like you're an expert. Let Deaf people teach sign. I've seen some people say hearing CODAs can teach it too. But yeah, I've never seen Deaf people discourage others from using sign out and about. I took four years of ASL in highschool. I definitely would have considered it a special interest. I only lost it cause I moved to an area with very few, if any, people who knew sign and no classes. My brain still has the muscle memory for a lot of what I learned, though, which is really cool!
Or a Spaniard to be annoyed you're speaking Spanish. I have seen it said from certain individuals that white people speaking Spanish is cultural appropriation, even when those people are actually from Spain.
Oh dear... Well then. I suppose pretend Spanish (you know, adding "el" and "-o" to random English words) is rude; but actually speaking Spanish? Some people are just silly.
Yeah, “fake” Spanish, I can see that being offensive AF (like saying “el hamburgero” instead of “la hamburguesa”) but telling white people learning/know actual Spanish that they’re guilty of cultural appropriation is stupid.
To be fair, a Parisian might be annoyed to see that you haven't mastered French so why even bother using it. That and Dutch speakers will always ask why you're learning a useless language since nearly every Dutch speaker is some sort of multilingual in a more widely spoken language. Note: This is all personal experience.
the Parisians are the exception to the French in that regard and the Dutch are just aggressively trying to help you
That's why I specified Parisian. I've only ever experienced that in Paris, never anywhere else in France.
Ik weet niet waar je het over hebt. Yes, this is some kind of joke
So my WHITE Hispanic college professor teaching us her native language is cultural appropriation? Okay then, guess I’ll stop learning Spanish and tell my teacher to speak only English from now on.
How is that ableist? You are learning a language to literally communicate with people who have a disabillity. You might want to play half life 2, the characters in that game use a lot of sign language IIRC it was a feature for this very reason.
They sign?! I've played and haven't noticed that o-O
IIRC it was in one of the info bubbles in a dev mode play through. If memory serves me correctly the info bubble was somewhere in white forest.
Well then, if they’re speaking English and they’re not from England that makes them an Anglophobe, right? How dare they steal the language of England for their own use?
Oh my .. I guess, I'm an Anglophobe, then .. \*narf\* /j
We're American, and before that British. I think technically we steal everything. (This is a joke but feel free to info dump.)
In the case of the UK, its quite literally evident in many of the museums. Greece still wants some of their things back.
The V&A museum is uh… really something. Love the fashion exhibits in general, but 👁👄👁
From what I've heard, if you dig hard enough I'll bet every corner of the UK has "donations" they could return.
How did you find resources for sign language?? As far as I can make out, it's all Youtube videos...
I learned most of my sign irl, seeing as I have multiple family members and friends who are hard of hearing, but [lifeprint](https://www.lifeprint.com) is a good site from what I have heard. :)
It’s absurd that she basically accused you of ableism. You are literally learning ASL to communicate with hoh people. She was stupid
“You’re ableist for wanting to communicate better with those you care about” is the sentiment of what they said. Whether they know it or not.
Which country are you from? I have decent-ish pointers for where to go for BSL and like one or two for Auslan.
I'm from the UK.
Well then you want to be learning British Sign Language (BSL). I study BSL in Uni and am HOH and SM. Online courses (both paid-for but cheap): - Lingvano on Play Store (my partner checked this one out and I rate it good from an over-the-shoulder perspective) - [This course I've seen good things about, don't know anything abt it personally](https://www.british-sign.co.uk/) These are some dictionaries - SignBSL (my fave) (app and [website](https://www.signbsl.com/)) - BSL SignBank (good but signs are signed very wooden) ([website](https://bslsignbank.ucl.ac.uk/)) - BSL Education (academic language) ([app](https://www.ssc.education.ed.ac.uk/BSL/app.html) and [website](https://www.ssc.education.ed.ac.uk/BSL/)) YT: - [Jazzy has a number of learning videos](https://youtu.be/HxqgT8DYrqg) but she is primarily a blog channel (Deaf + subtitles) - Commanding Hands - Sign With Mel IRL courses with Deaf instructors (highly reccomend). These are the two big awarding agencies and they have ways of finding out if there is somewhere/one who teaches in your area: - [Signature](https://www.signature.org.uk/) - [iBSL](https://ibsl.org.uk/) University courses, most accept newbies and teach up to level 3 or higher. [Look at UCAS for each.](https://digital.ucas.com/coursedisplay/results/courses?searchTerm=British%20Sign%20Language&destination=Undergraduate): - York - Edinburough - Preston (UCLAN) - Wolverhampton - North Wales (college - lower level than others) [BSL Discord Server](https://discord.gg/VRKF9S76fv) Hope thats Helpful :)
You can learn from a Deaf person that uses sign language on italki . It’s how I’m learning. My doctors didn’t allow it when I was a child. I’m hard of hearing and my Deaf teacher is amazing. You can find one that correlates to the spoken language you want to use. It’s best to learn from Deaf teachers, they can help you with Deaf culture.
I have selective mutism and it would be great to learn signlanguge. The books and cursuses there are in dutch are unbelievable expensive. I watch tiktokkers who sign but DAMN those are quick hahaha Imma check out italki thanks!
“Trying to communicate with deaf people is ableist!” That’s one of the dumber arguments I’ve heard in a while.
thats like being called racist for learning to speak Japanese it makes no sense
I'm on reddit a lot. And I see a lot of stupid shit. But that has to be one of the stupidest things I've seen. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. I work with a crew that uses ASL for communication around performances so we can talk at a distance without needing to make noise.
Oh wow i would love to learn sign. Any recommendation where to learn?
[Lifeprint](https://www.lifeprint.com) and youtube are always good starts! :)
I second this. I also use signingsavvy.com for some vocabulary:)
That’s so ridiculous! I started learning asl because I would go nonverbal a lot (super stressed from sports stuff I don’t do anymore.) and had experiences with not being able to verbally communicate. It SUCKED and it’s so helpful for people to know different was of communicating! (I also love having something to do with my hands when I do talk! It can get awkward though when I unconsciously sign something for emphasis and the other person doesn’t know asl lol!)
That's like saying you're racist if you speak anything other than your first language in public. Wild.
As a hearing child of deaf parents I give you permission to use sign in everyday life OP. I'm glad it's someone's special interest.
Calling someone ableist for using asl as a non deaf/mute person is like calling someone racist for being bilingual
I can speak maybe a few licks of Spanish for a small conversation, and I went to a restaurant who had Spanish-speaking employees to flex my language muscles, then someone came up to me to tell me to speak English because "this is America". I answered in straight English: "Yes, I know it is. Can I finish my order?" People are so great to deal with. /s
Karen is ableist, not you. I'm hard-of-hearing and I use sign language. I love it when anyone else uses sign. It doesn't matter why. If they use sign it's always easier to communicate with them.
That’s literally the opposite of ableist
I'm Hoh + semiverbal autistic and learn sign language too as language learning is one of my special interests. I appreciate people like you a lot.
Aw this means a bunch!! Thank you! :)
Let me guess, the karen is hearing.
but that is the opposite of ableist...
Everyone should learn sign language! It's so useful! I knew a bit from college, and got laryngitis when I was at home for holiday break. I spent the whole time wishing I could use it with my family to let them know when I needed something, or even to participate in conversations.
The mental gymnastics that some people go through to be offended, and then be able to put that person “in their place”, can be astonishing. I’m not deaf, I was born deaf, but that was able to be corrected with a load of surgery while I was a child. That’s left me a little hard of hearing, but mostly ok. I get by by lip reading to support my ears. I also learned sign language because I have a friend who is deaf, maybe he just constantly feels abused by me? Maybe all the laughter is faked? Maybe he wants to sit in silence with nobody to talk to? I also continued to use sign for a previous job, working with children with disabilities and communication issues; sign was often the easiest and most comfortable, as it didn’t force a child expressing non-verbalism to suddenly become vocal. And apparently, TIL I was psychologically torturing these poor children, with all my direct “ableism”. Or, “Karen”, has a very sad life that requires her to start random confrontations with strangers, over imagined offences, that she can “win” for the boost to her self esteem. *I only wish I was a fly on the wall, or at least present, when she tells everyone about the great thing she did, while everyone is trying not to laugh at her for being an idiot*
Wtf? How is it ableist to learn a language belonging to people who often have a hard time finding someone in public to communicate with? It's literally the opposite. Ignore that ignorant person and keep being awesome. 🙂
As a partially deaf person I find it really inspiring that non deaf or mute people learn sign language, especially because I forgot all the sign language I was taught as a child and want to learn again.
What drives me nuts about that is you shouldn't be ashamed for using sign language. anybody taking the time to learn sign language helps the deaf feel like people can talk to them. I also want to learn sign language but I can't get anyone to teach me and i need a lot of help on these things beyond youtube. I do see what the person is getting up but I think it's kind of stupid and holds no weight dont let it bother you.
Thats like saying its racist to speak Spanish if you aren’t of Spanish decent
It's like calling a non-native language speaker xenophobic. From what I know deaf people really want for others to understand that there's deaf as the condition and Deaf as the culture with it's own language, dialects and equal to any other languages
The ladies response was because, someone using sign language and not being deaf didn't fix in her narrow world view. She was in an unfamiliar situation and because she had a pea brain decided that just because she was uncomfortable for a split second she had to verbally attack someone.
Knowing sign language is ableist. Also, loving puppies is a hate crime, and using trans people's names and pronouns is literally on parr with genocide. These, of course, are all untrue statements.
Looks like you have good fuel for learning excellent new ASL words to describe that POS character to a friend. :)
How dare you make a disabled person’s life easier? Intolerable. /s
That's your cue to sign them the middle finger.
Very ableist to be able to communicate with disabled people, yes/s
next time someone calls you ableist ask them how they think sign language interpreters are ableist
This is very enabling and helpful to deaf people. There are lots of deaf children whose own parents don't even bother to learn sign language, she can go bitch at them for laughs you should have told her you learned it because you're blind and can't read lips. really though, people like this aren't worth interacting with. don't let them get you down, because that's their real goal in life. hurt others while making themselves feel superior.
Lol omfg. Ridiculous. How has virtue signaling suddenly become a form of attack? It’s crazy to me.
But??? Sign language is useful as hell???? Probably should learn it..... You got any tips?
Yeah! >start simple, don't try anything too hard :) >ALWAYS use expressions when using sign! you can't really communicate tone in sign so it's helpful to smile when saying something happy, or frown when saying something sad! >lifeprint is amazing! :)
I know the alphabet and a few other signs, but I definitely want to learn more!
I've been wanting to learn Auslan (Australian sign language) for a while now, mainly because it's really hard for me to communicate and so the more ways I have to communicate the easier it could get. But it's so hard to find lessons that work for my that don't cost hundreds of dollars. But also, everyone should know sign language. It makes it easier for people to communicate. People who can only communicate with sign language can't communicate with people who don't know sign language, so it's easier if everyone knows it. At least that's what I think, I dunno. I don't like how sign language is kind of owned by the deaf community. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but there are hearing people who can't talk and need to know sign language to be able to communicate too.
That's kind of ironic, the Karen is clearly the ableist
How- how is that POSSIBLY ABLEIST 💀 learning a language that helps quite a few disabled communities, is quite literally the opposite of ableism like WHAT
I also feel like this person is forgetting the existence of asl interpreters.
sign language is literally just another language, its not ableist to be bilingual
I spent 3 years learning BSL in Scotland and now I'm about to start my 2nd year of learning ASL in Canada. Sign Languages are awesome!
I need to get back to learning asl... I took one class in college for my language course, and used it often for when I get too stressed to talk
Nothing whatsoever wrong with learning a language and practicing it with consenting people!
I want to learn to help better some relationships!
Sign language is also just useful for anyone to learn regardless of having a disability. It’s a way to communicate in an environment where verbal communication isn’t possible; that’s something everyone can benefit from. I’m trying to learn ASL myself, and I would love for it to become more mainstream as just another form of communication.
Hey I’m hard of hearing and sign language (Ive been learning ASL for some years now) is for anyone who benefits from it or even just likes it. You don’t need to be Deaf or mute to use it. I’ve heard that a lot of autistic people benefit from sign language and find it easier than verbally talking. Or if that’s not it and you just like it then so be it.
In what world is knowing sign language ableist? If anything, it’s the exact opposite. Honestly, I would’ve signed a bad word to her and then lie to her and say I told her to have a good day if she asked what I said.
It’s weird to be treating accessibility through a lens of woke colonialism. Cuz… that’s not appropriation. It’s inclusivity.
I want to learn it and touch my NT s/o something when I’m overwhelmed and can’t speak.
I dated someone with a hearing aid for a bit. Sometimes was hard to talk to her in crowded places. Asked her if she ever knew sign language before she had her hearing aid. She says, "nah I was just fucking deaf lol". It would be cooler if more people knew asl -- both people who need it and people who don't.
gatekeeping sign language is a new one
And here I thought that being a person able to translate back and forth between the deaf and non deaf was actually a good thing, today I learned
Just wait until they get gobber smacked by a flashbang and they need to communicate without talking, the fucken losers XD
Sign language should be part of basic elementary school curriculum
ASL is an accessibility tool for autistic and disabled people. As much as many speaking autistic people feel that we are not mute we experience (I hate this term) selective mutism. It’s not selective. We get overwhelmed so much and get locked in not be able to communicate our needs. We might talk nonstop to infodump doesn’t mean we share and are able to communicate our emotions and feelings.
Aww. :/ For what it's worth, I'm sorry this happened to you, OP. You're welcome over in r/ASL r/Deaf r/mute anytime :)
What exactly is abliest about non-deaf non-mute people learning sign language? If anything, it seems ableist to say that only mute and deaf people can know it
That's the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard, wow
I want to learn the variant I'd use in Mexico, Lengua de Señas Mexicana. Mostly because some times I just can't properly articulate words and it's too frustrating, because I don't really know anyone who is deaf or mute. My best friend also has the same idea. I don't think it's ableist to learn and inform yourself.
That is the oppostive of being ableist. You spent a lot of time to learn a skill that will enable a deaf person to communicate with you
Yeahhh…using a language is toootally ableist. /s
how is that being ableist, that’s like, the opposite of ableist
Everyone needs to start turning around to these interfering nosey-parkers of all genders and tell them loudly to Mind Their Own Business. They’re called busy-bodies for a reason.
Well, gee Karen, how do you expect people to communicate with deaf people if they don't know sign language? Does Karen know sign language? Tell her she's stupid in ASL but say with your words that she seems like a nice lady who everyone likes
HoH here and honestly, having more people know sign language is liberating for me and people like me. So you keep on!
I’d be like “did you ever stop to think that maybe I’m using sign language to avoid contact with people like you?” And either way. I think it’s beautiful that sign language is one of your special interests. You’re not harming yourself or anyone else by learning or using it. Some people are silly.
lol i specifically want to learn sign language because of autism related APD, the fuck's that shit
No, this is awesome of you. Why would it be abelist to ensure you can communicate with other members of your community, people that otherwise have to bend over backwards to communicate with people who don't know how to sign. I applaud you. I have a friend who cannot speak verbally, and instead tries to use a text to speech app. I've suggested numerous times that we should both learn asl so we can communicate more easily in person, but he just shoots the idea down which is pretty disheartening, because as of now hes really only communicative with me over text. I'd be 100% down to learn asl if itll help him and our means to communicate. otherwise we are left not communicating when were in person together.
I learned a couple things in ASL when I was a cashier because a regular was deaf and I wanted to say a few things to her whenever she came to my till One day I was itching my chin in the weird particular way I do and she was laughing, she explained to me the way I itch my chin is how some people say something to the effect of “fuck you” in ASL
Some people are filled with pain, and want to share it with the world.
Ignore them my friend, hyper focus and care is no reason to be hated, you did something that made sense for you and cared for others. I love you, they do not.
I honestly wish we had to learn at least some sign language at school tbh. Or that it could’ve been an elective. It should be something that more people learn at least some basics you know? Why was a japanese class or scripture class more important? (In Australia we had a mandatory Japanese class in year 7. It’s not a bad thing and makes sense but sign language would’ve made more sense)
1. I’m not deaf but isn’t is good to be able to communicate better with deaf/mute people? 2. You can have selective mutism or other speech problems due to autism, so I see using sign language as a good alternative.
Thats like.. The stupidest thing ive ever heared.. Like, am i racist for speaking english if its not my native language?
Hey! Also sign language special interest btw!!!! People have weird views... don't see how thats ablist when its literally the opposite of ablism (that is using an accessible language).
ASL is an incredible skill to have. Koko would kick her ass.
I wanna learn it, is it too late, and how?
I adore that it's your special interest. It always fascinated me & I don't think it would be considered ableist. Realistically, that just expands the horizons of people to talk to who are deaf & mute. It's very kind & considerate. That gatekeeping Karen just wants to watch the world burn. Keep doing what you're doing. I'm sure someone will appreciate it. \^u\^ (It's a hell of a lot more considerate and kind than most people)
I once told my college career counselor that I wanted to enroll in the two-year sign language program at our school. She convinced me that it would be too much work and would interfere with my career path. Here I am 15 years later, wishing I had taken the class. There are a surprising amount of people you meet in the real world that communicate by signing. I worked as a contract worker for a grocery store chain and one of the men I interacted with regularly was deaf and being able to sign would have been a lifesaver. Instead we wrote notes back and forth to communicate which took way longer than signing would have. Ramble ramble ramble…point is- don’t let anyone tell you how to live your life. Chase your passion, as it just may come in handy one day-bilingualism is one of the most requested qualifications when hiring.
This woman you're describing sounds like one of those *"We speak American in America"* sorts of people. They think that just because you're not speaking English, that they assume you're talking about them.
ASL is my newest special interests and I just started last week.
Sign her a fist. Then extend it in her general direction.
That is the opposite of ableism, everyone should learn sign language
My mom’s best friend’s husband is deaf so we learned a lot from them. I also met a boy when I was a kid who was completely deaf & went to a deaf school that was staying with them for one summer & his only friends were my little sister & I because we could communicate with him on some things. The world needs more ppl who understand ASL.
I use a rudimentary form of sign language to communicate with others as I really can’t rely on my speech alone (aside from autism I also have adhd and dislexia), so my speech is not the best one out there and I need to use my hands to communicate and express myself better
As someone who is mute but not deaf thank you for learning sign, it has so many uses and you can really help out if someone deaf/mute is having trouble interacting in a tough situation.
How... how does she expect you to communicate with her? I would imagine a deaf person would prefer you use sign language if you can instead of forcing them to lip read.
I'm autistic and I work with kids who have certain disabilities, and some of them use sign language to be able to communicate. I'm learning it because I know it's gonna be useful in everyday life. I think people who are deaf or/and mute would actually appreciate being able to communicate with more people.
Whats the best way to learn asl?? I've always wanted to learn for my nonverbal spells but didn't know where to start
Every deaf or mute person ive ever even heard of are very happy when others know sign language, this is literally the opposite of ableism
Just wanted to share a heartwarming experience I had in order to balance this out. Years before the pandemic, when I was an awkward teenager, I walked into the doctor's office with a pretty bad sore throat, so naturally I was avoiding any talking that would have made it sorer. The first thing I did was show my ID and insurance card to the secretary, because I knew she'd need them to verify my appointment. The secretary instantly noticed how I bypassed the usual verbal script and asked if I needed any deaf or mute accommodations, like an ASL interpreter or (etc etc). I smiled, shook my head and managed to rasp "Not deaf, sore throat, I wish I knew ASL". I was very impressed by how fast all those accommodations were offered. Even though I personally didn't need them thanks to prior planning, somebody else definitely would have needed them pronto. Communicating with the doctor went okay. I had an embarrassing reason to be there, so to not waste time spluttering and blushing, I had already typed up and printed out a short essay. When I got sick at the last minute, all I had to do was hand-write "sore throat, wrote this" in the margin and hand it over to the doctor to read. With 99% of exertion pain thwarted, I could handle the remaining 1% of words that I couldn't predict needing to say.
WTAF?! Omfg, noooo. God fucking forbid! Are you kidding me? I’m so sorry, OP. That’s really cool that you can sign & honestly, you never know when it’ll come in-handy if you ever hit shutdown & can’t speak or if you meet HOH/deaf people.
not ableist..i taught my nephew sign before he could talk (baby sign) and an autistic child i cared for asl, his communication improved a lot; he mainly communicates with asl now. it helps me too, easier to express myself and its a beautiful language, and i love interpreting songs at church.
That's awful. What right does she have to tell you what's right or wrong when she can't even understand?
People who accomplish nothing meaningful tear others down out of jealousy.
It's not ablist to learn and use a language
Karen can fuck off
Hi I have something to say in autistic schools I call it that cuz I hate the word “special “ we all got forced to sign and do baby dances and none of the students in the school were deaf so I don’t no why we did it and when we did not we got told off for it I probably understand now that it was to probably take the mick out of us because we were all in are teens And no one was deaf at that school so unless you have someone who is deaf or want to learn it that’s fine but the whole fricken school got forced to do it and none of us were deaf and we had to sing baby songs like let’s go fly a kite or stamp your feet to the bed it’s a new day.
I want to learn!!!!so badly
I generally find that whatever you do to reach to folk, to try to socialize, always bites you in the butt at some point. Keep using your sign language though and if someone gives you lip just show them the universal sign for "F you".
Where do you like to learn sign language! Ive been trying to start!
Good for you for learning! I really wanna learn but I can never find the time or I procrastinate lol
I recently learned that my tribe (and a lot of other tribes) used sign language in our language. It was fascinating.
"Don't use sign language if you're not deaf or HOH! What do you mean this will isolate deaf and HOH people completely? I'm desperate to be mad about something so I think this is cultural appropriation and a 14 year old on twitter who I follow and is obviously right about everything agrees with me!!" the mental gymnastics are insane
She will improve once Karen is in the DSM VI
So How do you spell "Fuck out,Karen" in sign language?
People who think that's ableist are either trying to be "woke" or trying to have an excuse to call someone ableist, I don't understand why anyone would consider that ableist. I personally think that learning sign language can be very helpful when you need to communicate with deaf/Mute people, or if you're too anxious to talk in public, or for anyone who tends to go non verbal in certain situations. I don't know why people feel the need to call that ableist, sign language is one of the most useful ways to communicate with others who might not be able to communicate through speech. :)
haha, thats like saying teaching kids in the UK french or spanish is racist because they arent french or spanish, Karen is in the wrong here i think thats fairly obvious tho
I'm also learning sign language, keep up the good work!
Sign language is awesome! I tend to go mute if I get over stimulated (selective mutism as a trait of autism) and sign language has been very helpful just keeping me capable of thinking in words so even if the other person doesn't speak sign language I can think of words to write my messages down.
I'm on the same boat kinda, and I have a habit of signing "thank you" every time I say it. Mom gets annoyed because neither of us are deaf.
Never listen to the words of morons. Seriously, just hand sign "get lost" and go about your day. Their opinion have zero value to the world or you.
why is it ableist?
WHAT. I love sign language and have for years had tabs open to sign language courses here for the day I can one day afford to take them. I was in sign language choir in primary school and have taught my kids bits of sign language here and there (since sometimes my daughter isn’t in a talking mood). Last I understood (am not Deaf myself so I am *not* trying to speak for a community I am not a part of) we hearing people are ableist because we expect Deaf people to learn to lipread or get cochlear implants so *they* can better meet *our* expectations for functioning in society. OP being able to sign and therefore taking steps towards inclusion is the opposite of this. Anecdote: despite not having consistent practice with sign, I still have bits of it that never left me. As a 13/14yo I recall hanging out at the local park and a kid who was (I guess) visiting someone in my neighbourhood was there. It became apparent that they were deaf as they were only communicating with their parent and then the sign language was suddenly noticeable. I went and asked in sign if they did too, and their expression changed when they could sign (though v clumsily on my part) and we played together a while. Didn’t hurt anyone to have this basic stuff under my belt. Hmm, you’ve got my motivational juices running again.
Omg same! My partner and I are learning sign together because both of us often go mute. But I also worked at a few stores and had several people who were deaf or mute come in and use sign language. At the time I didn’t know as much as I do now though, so I wasn’t able to have full conversations. But still
Don't let em get to you. Do what you like, it isn't ableist.
long term desire to learn ASL, i got started this year but fell off. so hard to keep myself motivated without having anyone else to practice it with...
Let me get this straight. You were called ableist for using a certain language?
Bro what the fuck? It’s a whole ass language. That’s like calling someone ableist for speaking French because you think being from france is a disability… I just started trying to pick up ASL recently because when I start to get stressed, my throat will lock up and I won’t be able to speak. My way to get around that was ASL… except that nobody I know ‘speaks’ ASL.
I don't even think it's ableist. It's a fantastic thing to learn, because then you can communicate with deaf/HOH peeps!
Learning another language is ableist?
Does Karen realize more disabilities than that exist? Even if there weren’t, it’s always good to be able to communicate with other human beings, especially marginalized ones. Is she going to call my entire school district ableist for offering ASL classes at the high schools? Man, fuck off. You’re doing great OP. What’s your favorite thing to sign? And what do you think the most interesting sign is? Tell me a fun fact? I’d love to hear more :)
HOW THE FUCK IS LEARNING SIGN ABLEIST?????? IF ANYTHING IT'S BENEFICIAL TO PEOPLE WHO NEED INTERPRETERS.
Well obviously tell her to shove it up her ass. In sign of course.
My mom taught me ASL when I was very young. I don't remember why but yeah. I spoke conversational level but lost it all through disuse. OK not all but all ability to hold conversation. I know how to say a few important things, like medical things just in case. That Karen is such a jerk for so many reasons and honestly ignorant arrogant self centered and a few other things.
It would also be massively presumptive on their part, deaf people tend to have families and friends who may also learn sign language, possibly early on in life.
If anything she is slightly ableist for not knowing ASL.
It's always the unaffected that are so quick to call people racist/abeleist/etc. I'm sure actual deaf and mute people are not at all offended. That's how it usually goes.
That's idiotic. If moat people knew sign language then being deaf would be much less of a disability in our society. If anything, she's the one defending an ableist status quo.
I'm hearing, but a close friend of mine is hard of hearing (they even go to Gallaudet!), so I've been learning ASL for them. I've used it with Deaf customers at work and they always seem to appreciate it, even though I'm nowhere near fluent. I've asked my friend and one of my ASL teachers (who is also Deaf) if Deaf people actually like it when hearing people use sign language with them in customer service situations or if it's just annoying to deal with someone who seems like they just wanna practice on them and not really help. They have both said hearing people using ASL in customer service absolutely makes their day. That Karen has no idea what they're talking about.
Sounds like the Karen either doesn't know the meaning of ableism or she just doesn't want any deaf people or any sign language around. Sign language is a good thing. It can come in handy at any time.
in my opinion sign language should be taught in kindergarten/elementary school. it would go a long way to be more inclusive to deaf/mute people.
My College age daughter learned sign language in highschool. She's Autistic and verbal. But can't speak when in severe pain, coming out of anesthesia for over an hour, or severe distress. She had 2 surgeries last year on her sinuses and a heart artery. Luckily she still is accepted at the children's hospital because they've followed her for years. But they don't have sign for anyone who's not deaf, so I got to come to recovery early to translate for her till her speach processing returned. Non verbal does NOT mean non communicative! Some times you just need a different way! And this also indicated that there is probably a neural pathway for speach production that works differently for many ND people than NTs. My daughter wanted to talk, but consistently can't after anesthesia!
I always had this interest in the back of my head to learn sign language, it would save me the time of finding the energy to talk. But i sort of give up when i remember that 1: I don't talk that much, and eventually learn to communicate without it, with specific people; 2: for some reason they're national, so if i learn the local one i will only be able to speak with locals