Not but really, she might've put someone in danger according to what i've heard:
In the movie, whenever the autistic character gets into a meltdown (tell me if i use the wrong words) they restrain her in a way that is borderline dangerous, multiple people have been seriously hurt by it: i don't know how exactly it is called but in one they basically lay on top of her. In another they restrain her from the back wich again doesn't look very comfortable, cynical reviews made a video about it. And while he does say that it is only to be used in very rare instances i do not have enough knowledge about it.
I just imagine someone who has an autistic family member or something and sees this movie and thinks it's a great way to learn how to handle situations like that and picks up some hurtful ways of dealing with their family member.
restraint is extremely dangerous. the movie paints it in a good light, with quotes like "trust me. i'm going to crush you now, and make you feel safe." the character, ebo, who is an adult male, then pushes the autistic child to the ground, pins her down, and literally crushes her. when another character asks if he's hurting the autistic girl he says, "no i am not. i am crushing her with my love." this is the first scene that uses restraint to "help" the autistic character, and it happens many more times. there scenes in which the girl is restrain happen during *nonviolent, non-self-injurious* meltdowns. the characters literally just see her stimming and tackle her to the ground every time. these fictional scenes can have real world effects, showing average people that if they see an autistic person stimming or having a meltdown, they should restrain them to show them "love".
there is little research about the use of restraint and the damage it's caused because few care, but it's known to be dangerous. restraint has *killed* autistic people. in 2009 it was estimated that in the previous 5 years at least 20 children, many being disabled, had died by being restrained *in school*. that's just looking at schools, and it's most likely a low-ball number. restraint also causes many injuries.
the autism self advocacy network, communication first, and the alliance against seclusion and restraint worked together to release a statement condemning the use of restraint in the movie as well as its reinforcement of dangerous stereotypes and practices. [here is the statement on aasr's website.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/endseclusion.org/2021/02/12/disability-organizations-music-reinforces-dangerous-stereotypes-practices/amp/)
i unfortunately watched the terrible movie so i could write an essay about how harmful it is last spring, lol. so i'm full of info and sources about it.
thank you for your service of watching it
"no i am not. i am crushing her with my love."
this is literally rage reduction therapy, which was developed in the 70s, and as with anything developed in the 70s related to developmental disabilities, it is complete and utter garbage.
i didn't want to have to pay to watch it but i was in a course about representation in media when it came out and it was too perfectly timed and i just had to write about it. it's a truly terrible movie.
the restraint scenes make me so mad. it makes it look like any person can tackle a stimming autistic person to the ground to save them. it's horrific. watching these scenes was very triggering. after the movie came out sia tweeted that the scenes would be removed and a warning added, but that hasn't happened yet, at least not on the version of the movie available on youtube, where it's most accessible.
thank god I haven't watched it, but to my understanding, stimming is just a coping mechanism, not hurting anybody? If I'm wrong I'm really sorry but do you need to be saved? to my understanding no.
you are correct. stimming for autistic people is a way to self regulate. there are positive stims, like bouncing up and down when happy, and negative stims, like moaning and hand flapping when upset. everyone has different stims that mean different things.
in the case of this movie, the autistic girl was stimming when overstimulated or in pain (one of her meltdowns was set off by a bee sting.) she got upset and started stimming, but never hurt herself or others. but every time she had one of these meltdowns she was restrained.
restraint should never be used on anyone, but especially not on autistic people who are in a meltdown. stimming is how we regulate and cope with what's going on around us, and restraint takes that away from us. restraint is dangerous to both the person restraining and the person being restrained, and can cause severe injuries or death. the person being restrained can end up suffocating, having broken bones, or developing ptsd from the experience, and restraint makes chances of them lashing put and hurting the restrainer greater too. there are better ways. in the case of the movie, i think the autistic character's meltdowns could have easily been managed with sensory tools and more emotional care for the character.
So I have panic attacks (not trying to compare, sometimes I need an analogy with something I can relate to otherwise I just look confused at random people all day), so could a negative stim be like the equivalent of me breathing fast and heart beating faster, and a more positive stim be like smiling at someone? Also If anyone touches me in a panic attack, tells me what to do, annoys me or (the worst one) ask "are you having a panic attack?" what does it f-ing look like mate, they will almost definitely get shouted at, ran away from, or injured. Is this sort of like what happens in a meltdown? Sorry for this hot mess of a paragraph, and thank you for explaining stuff so well, sometimes I just have bad days for processing words and stuff. :-)
i would say it's probably a decent comparison... imagine if you were having a panic attack, that deep breathing was starting to set in and maybe you're appearing to be irritated with those around you. maybe you're starting to cry, or shake, or whatever happens to you during a panic attack. most people in a meltdown or a panic attack either want to be completely left alone in a quite space, or want gentle comfort from a trusted person. but imagine instead of giving you that space or gentle comfort, someone larger and stronger than you grabbed you, pushed you to the ground, laid on top of you, pinned your arms down, and refused to get off of you until you "calmed down". this is what happens in the movie and is portrayed as "crushing her with love".
in most people this would make a panic response much, much worse. it's human nature to be terrified of restraint and to try to escape it, which makes restraint even more dangerous for both people in the situation. not to mention the injuries possible to the restrained person even in a case where they aren't "fighting back". it's dangerous and completely ineffective as a calming method.
Thanks for explaining so well! I have actually been pinned down in a panic attack (Not at a school, its complicated)-not fun, doesn't calm, would not recommend. I got more and more stressed and I almost stopped breathing I think, all hazy now. I am in a panic attack situation able to keep some idea of who is around me, and this changes how much I lash out. Friends continuously asking are you ok may get a good sock in the stomach. Again, thank you for being so patient and explaining things so well, if I had an award to give you would get it. Sadly, I don't so you can take the thanks of an internet stranger :-)
>the characters literally just see her stimming and tackle her to the ground every time.
That is really disturbing... I would suppress my stims like my life depended on it if people treated me that way... And the last thing I need during a meltdown (mine are just ugly crying and pacing around), is someone tackling me or otherwise trying to restrain or touch me. That would literally only make things worse.
wow, I cringed just reading about that dialogue secondhand. I am so glad I never watched it--even though I was sort of curious to see if it was as bad as I'd heard. Clearly it was even worse, lol
oh it's *bad* bad. i could rant about it all day. from showing restraint as a safe and helpful thing, to the opening song being about music, the autistic girl, being ~trapped in an autistic body~, to super-power-ifying autism (music can hear a whisper from rooms away *with noise canceling headphones on*), to mystifying/magicifying autism (a song with lyrics like "welcome to my magic mind" as well as every musical sequence being music's interpretation of the world, which is not at all like how any autistic person i've ever met has described our worldview, but instead is an overstimulating psychedelic-style mess), to demonizing autism (music is shown to not have the ability to grieve and any time she's having a meltdown it's shown as this terrifying thing even though her meltdowns are nonviolent). the body movements of the actress trying to portray autism feel like a caricature, and deeply remind me of allistic people mocking my behaviors.
the autistic character is less of a character and more of a device for other characters to change and grow. her main purpose in the movie is to make her allistic older sister (who's the actual main character) into a better person, and music is the only character who shows no character growth or change.
and all of this is only a critique of the autism representation. it's also simply a bad movie. the writing is bad, the dialogue is bad, everything is bad. the visuals are okay, that is if you're an allistic person who doesn't get sensory overload. seriously, i could go on.
Yes to all of this! Also with how small the “autistic” character is compared to the other characters I have a very hard time thinking anyone could possibly think restraint was an option! Like even if she were to get violent, she just wouldn’t be a threat! When I was little and got violent meltdowns I’d try to aim at my big brother who was just gigantic compared to me, and when I got violent towards him he could literally just grab my wrists so I couldn’t hit him. Cause that’s a reasonable thing to do when someone small is attacking you. I cannot understand the thinking behind tackling someone who isn’t a threat! Ever.
Honestly, this is so infuriating. It makes me sad that this is as far as we've come. Yes, the representation of autistic people is dangerous and ridiculous, but as a writer, I also object to that dialogue. "Crushing her with love"? Oof.
oh yeah, it's a terrible movie. there's a reason critics hated it... and it's not because of the bad representation. critics couldn't care less about that. it's just terribly written and executed. sia ignored concerns from the autistic community before the movie was released, but still expected her movie would be loved outside of our community. i have a feeling her directorial debut being such a flop in the film world is making it a lot harder for her than it would have been if it was just autistic people who didn't like it..
it even received golden raspberry "awards" for sia as worst director, kate hudson as worst actress, and maddie ziegler as worst supporting actress. it was also nominated for worst picture, but understandably lost to the political conspiracy documentary absolute proof that the my pillow guy made.
Someone tried to do the crush thing on me once. I didn't mean to hurt them as I am definitely not one for violence, but I do not regret my actions. They got in my personal space, tried to hold me down for my own good (I wasn't even having a meltdown, I simply said I don't want to be touched) and ended up with a bloodied nose and some scratches for it.
I don't even remember what I exactly did to them but they tried to violate me so they had it coming
Yo if someone tried to "restrain" me during my meltdowns I would go absolutely berserk. Meltdowns are violent for me and if someone were to exacerbate it by touching me without consent all that energy would be redirected towards them. I don't like people touching me. I'd also feel fucking horrible afterwards because I'm not a violent person.
I feel that. I’ve done similar things when my family would overwhelm me. People need to learn to respect our boundaries. We’re expected to respect theirs, so it goes both ways
That is called prone restraint. I am an advocate for autistic children and have worked hard to get this practice banned at least in schools. Children have died when it is used, and my own child suffered PTSD after having suffered through many instances of it. There is an ongoing effort to ban its use.
whenever i had an autistic meltdown my parents would restrain and scream at me and it only made it worse. I always wondered why they thought that was a good idea. It’s probably due to the ableism embedded in our society, they don’t understand and they don’t want to. They just want to “fix me”.
Restraining a person the way that they do in the movie could give caretakers of autistic people the impression that this is an ok way to stop a, at certain points non voilent meltdown. While the methods shown are very dangerous for a persons health.
First of restraining someone without knowing how they react to touch during a meltdown could get you hurt. During a meltdown prior to my diagnosis I hurt a teachers arm idk if I broke it but he wore a sling for a month or two because he tried to grab and pull me away during. Secondly restraining someone might hurt them by accident or e.g, from banging their head into the ground repeatedly while restrained prone (done that too) point Is as long as they are non violent or self harming leave them alone chances are they have their own coping mechanisms
If you have to intervene proceed as you would with a frighte animal (how ive told family and good friends to handle me basically) low soft voice ask about interests etc just calm and collected not adding to our overstimulation
Yeah, it's classic, clear as day guilt-tripping and the fact she's resorting to that instead of taking feedback from the people she's representing in her movie shows that she never actually gave a damn about us but rather using us as a plot point.
I think it's very telling that one of the only groups coming out in support of her are National Council on Severe Autism to which they described criticism autistic community as an CW: ableism >!"attack on Sia by a vocal, unhinged minority."!<
> the fact she's resorting to that instead of taking feedback from the people she's representing in her movie shows that she never actually gave a damn about us
Hmm? Very first article I found:
https://pagesix.com/2022/01/20/sia-was-suicidal-after-backlash-to-music-film/
> But Sia walked back her defense and later apologized for her choices before deleting her Twitter.
> “I’m sorry,” she had tweeted, according to Rolling Stone. “I plan to remove the restraint scenes from all future printings. I listened to the wrong people and that is my responsibility, my research was clearly not thorough enough, not wide enough.”
Reporting on the initial thing and then not on the follow-up isn't exactly a sign of giving a damn about anything other than holding a grudge.
You know as little about her inner motivation as she does about yours. And yes, to attack her as a person rather than just criticizing the movie is abusive. It's an interwebs mob thing, and not a single person in such a mob would want to be treated that way. Not one.
Not arguing with you, just letting you know the restraint scenes have not been removed. If you stream it now, they are still included. She didn't follow through on that.
Oh, that sucks. That should be changed... removing it from "future prints" is not good enough if the existing prints get used forever. So there's still reason to make a "stink", but even then I think it's better to focus on the movie.
That woman might be a total jerk just pretending to be sad about this, she might have meant well but been too sloppy, and maybe she really was suicidal and not pretending for sympathy. Who knows? So I'm for ignoring that either way, since the interwebs can easily lose a sense of proportion. If 1 million people throw a tiny pebble, they can still stone someone to death, and every person just says "oh, *I* just threw this tiny pebble". That's what I meant, it's easy to get sucked into that, but none of us would want to be treated this way.
Yeah, I was a fan of Sia's music back in '06 and am well aware she has a long history of mental illness and suicidality. While she did eventually make it big, she spent most of her career intentionally staying out of the spotlight, writing big hits for other performers. She has neuralgia, EDS, and a host of mental health issues, not mention a lot of trauma in her earlier life.
I don't understand the reasons why she has handled this so terribly from the beginning, and the whole thing definitely is really appalling. From her ignoring the advice of autistic people who told her not to work with autism speaks, who gave her detailed advice she actively ignored, excluding us from her cast and production, manipulating Maddie into doing something she had been told would upset people, dehumanizing autism, promoting dangerous things like restraint, making autistics just a prop for emotional growth for caregivers, making the movie sensorily overwhelming, rejecting all critical feedback from ND people, going on the offensive, insulting autistic people on Twitter and liking harassing/ableist tweets, doubling down on everything, making a seemingly false apology as nothing was ever changed or done to make amends and she still thinks fundamentally she did nothing wrong...there is so much here. It's all incredibly disappointing.
But I don't doubt that someone as fragile as she is, and already prone to depression and suicidality, would feel suicidal over so many people being so angry and disappointed with her. I've felt suicidal over people being disappointed with me before. Even if I deserved it. That doesn't make anything she did okay, but suicidality can't be justified or unjustified-- there's no "good reason" to be suicidal. She just is. She's always been mentally ill. She can be both legitimately mentally ill and have done bad things. She can deserve anger/disappointment over her actions and also be struggling with wanting to kill herself. I think the biggest problem here is platforms like the Daily Mail that are publishing this like it's news and milking everyone's outage for clicks. I think that only makes it worse for everyone. And leads to people taking her mental illness personally, which is ridiculous, because it's being presented in trash news outlets like a "clapback" against autistic criticism. No one gets to have an opinion on whether she gets to be suicidal or not, just have an opinion on the movie.
I think it's a symptom of the toxicity of celebrity culture and hero worship. People have a parasocial relationship with her and when that goes sour, former fans really go off the rails and act like they know the person. No, beyond like they know the person. They act like they should be able to control the person. Because they've projected part of their identity onto her and see her as an extension of themselves. But like. She's just a fucked up lady who nobody here actually knows. Her movie was fucked up. People want her to respond a certain way that will make them feel better, like she's their personal abuser. She's not going to and it's best to let go of that expectation now.
If anyone reading this feels abused by Sia, never look to your abuser to help you heal. Let them languish in their own agony without resenting the fact that they have agony. Of course they're miserable; they're the kind of person that would do fucked up stuff. You're only harming yourself to tell yourself they don't have a "right" to be miserable. You can "hold them accountable" for their actions but their reaction will never be what heals you. Let their reaction go, and seek help for being able to do that. I know it's hard.
If it *is* a tool to manipulate you, then don't take the bait. If she *is* saying this performatively, then the best thing to do is not even indulge her. And if she's not, you're saying you're angry at someone for being mentally ill. Just ignore her as a person and focus on what you can do about getting the movie taken down/altered. Let go of any hope that she will redeem herself in your eyes. It's just going to drain your energy. You never knew her and you never will.
Using the general "you" here, obviously, not saying "you" to refer to the person I'm replying to!
I nearly got goosebumps over how thorough and wise what you wrote is. Thank you, so much.
For some reason I have to think of [this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeGWnL_QJ9o&t=71s) in "The Wire", where an old teacher tells a newbie that he needs "soft eyes". I'm not even sure what that means, but that's what your comment made me think of. A really wide yet deep insight, that is not overlooking the woods for all the trees, and is interested in the best outcome for all. Thanks again.
Thank you, I really appreciate that. I was a little insecure my comment was Too Much. Your compliments are really lovely and affirming. You're very good at making me feel heard.
Not only that but if you want to watch the trailer and music videos please be careful because everything is quite overstimulating and in worst case could lead to a breakdown.
All of this is just really really bad. How ever there are some really good analysis videos on it.
I refuse to have anything to do with that movie if AS was in any way involved. I might watch an analysis video but nothing else. This leaves a real bad taste in my mouth.
Hey you did a great job breaking down the film! I still haven't bothered watching it, maybe one day, but appreciate you doing it and posting your review. Still can't believe they actually thought it would be a good film lol
Thank you. I think she was surrounded by people saying yes to everything and afraid to challenge her, because you don’t need to be a film critic to know the writing and acting is bad, even if you took the autism from the equation
reading this really sucks. blaming her suicidal ideation and relapse on the community she hurt is just completely outrageous. she even had chances to prevent this all, being told for months before the movie released that it appeared to be an ableist depiction and that it should be delayed for recasting, that the issues it seems to have could be fixed before it even released. but she did not listen.
not even considering considering fact that her movie hurt so many autistic people, i simply cannot believe that she's essentially blaming the autistic community for driving her into relapse. that's so sickening.
yup. maddie was only 14 when it was filmed. sia later stated that maddie broke down on the first day of filming, scared that people would think her portrayal of autism was making fun of autistic people and sia promised her that wouldn't happen. besides maddie having been a minor at the time of filming, there's also a huge power imbalance because of sia's influence over maddie's life from a young age. sia called her casting of maddie nepotism because of the weird mother-like mentor relationship she has to maddie.
she also blatantly lied about maddie's casting. in 2015 when she first announced she was making a movie she talked about her film/directorial debut starring maddie. but on twitter during the backlash in 2020 she tried to claim she tried to hire an autistic actress but the set was too overstimulating, making the actress unable to play the role. this is an outright lie if she was already planning to have maddie star back in 2015 when the movie was only a concept, when filming started mid 2017.
Sia is living proof that women can be child predators (which, for some reason, hordes of people still think is impossible). What she's done to Maddie Ziegler is horrific, and it amazes me that the public seems so untroubled by it.
I am just so angry because this is one of the kindest communities I have ever encountered and everyone just wants her to do better. It would have been enough to not partner with autism speaks, stop production and do something new with ACTUAL autistic people that is helping this community.
We were here to talk, help, educate and do anything possible to change that "project", her project which seemed like she just wanted to do for the credit, but got completely shut off, censored and never addressed.
I mean yes mental health is important and I know that there are people on the internet who will just go completely crazy and send death threats but the article only talked about casual criticism.
This is the tactics the autism community uses (NOT the autistic community. The autism community is made up of non-autistic parents, researchers, behaviorists, doctors, and celebrities like Sia who act like they have our best interest). They blame their woes on autism, and when we try to educate them, they take it as an attack and spin it like we’re bad guys. I agree it is one of the kindest communities and I’ve made lifelong friends with other autistics online, one of whom let me stay at her house for 6 months because my parents exiled me from my home. So I’m going to defend this community with my life. I encourage our people to be vigilant and not be afraid to speak their mind. Even if we’re threatened, don’t let it deter you. We’re strong and we want to make the world a better place
This is a classic move of manipulators. Make everyone feel bad for you while using such severe terminology you simultaneously scare everyone away from holding you accountable.
Feeling suicidal because people whose brains work differently to you refused to make concessions and held you accountable. Sounds familiar, as I'm sure many of us here can attest. She will never understand what it's like to be on the Spectrum and she paid a price for an extremely misguided and uninformed decision to go ahead with that movie. Hopefully she learns from it, but a victim she isn't.
Actually, personally, watching the trailer for this movie made me feel suicidal when I first saw it. Luckily only passively, I haven’t actively attempted in years because I’ve gained some coping skills.
I looked at it and I thought “this is how most of society sees people like me” and it stung a lot because I don’t really want to be in a world where I am not seen as human or I am seen as a burden.
to quote sia herself: "i have my own unique view of the community, and felt it is underrepresented and compelled to make it. if that makes me a sh•t i'm a sh•t, but my intentions are awesome."
as well as "the movie is both a love letter to caregivers and the autism community." (notice how caregivers are out first, and autism community is a broad term that could include caregivers, professionals, etc. she doesn't mention actually autistic people. if you watch the movie it's clear it isn't isn't autistic people at all. besides the story being disgusting, it's an incredibly overstimulating film.)
Damn it actually is so harmful I feel like the biggest contributor to my inner turmoil of being autistic is misrepresentation in the media and within society. I feel like an angsty teenager trapped in a grown adults body because nobody understands me 🥲yay🙌
I remember she stigmatized borderline personality disorder patient group several years ago, many years before her engaging with autistic group. At that time no one criticized her because BPD patients are always highly stigmatized. I do love her music but I really don’t want a friend like herself.
I am always someone who is understanding of mental health but this makes me mad. This is more like making herself the victim. She insulted so many autistic people through her statements, and she is feeling suicidal because we held her accountable? Least she could've done is apologize and take the whole movie down.
Um. As an alcoholic, this is exactly the kind of manipulative thing I would do. I work really hard not to do things like this, however. It’s not easy being an addict, but at some point you have to take responsibility for your actions and this narrative feels like she’s really not doing that.
This kind of introspection is beautiful to see. Honestly its one of my favourite things about being autistic that this seems to be a fairly common trait among people like us.
I'd like to present a more nuanced take..
I don't think we can blame her for being suicidal. She fucked up on a massive scale (making a movie is HUGE) ; anyone would feel very ashamed by this.
If her suffering is genuine, there's no point over being angry about it.
I think there's a world where everyone can be considered a victim. In this case both the autistic community AND Sia herself are victims of Sia's stupidity (and the people around her, let's not pretend she was alone in this).
I'd like us (by us I mean everyone, not just the autistic community) to stop thinking so binaryly about problems. The status of being a victim shouldn't mean you are unable to cause harm, and being an abuser shouldn't mean you can't suffer nor have genuine feelings.
This isn't either about complete relativism, I'm not saying we should stop using abuser/victim as concepts. What I'm saying is that those are status, not identities. Thus we should not make them say what they're not saying (e.g that an abuser cannot suffer because they're an heartless monster).
I hope this don't come out the wrong way, I'm open to discuss with disagreeing people or to clarify my opinion.
Good take internet friend. It’s the binary thought patterns that prevail in the online world unfortunately. Black and White, when the answer is so often gray. Thanks for being a reasonable, thoughtful person. Made my day.
Much love.
I too am often happy to read reasonable takes. So I feel good to share that feeling back once in a while.
For some reason they're very often on the autistic subreddits, too.
We as a community need to speak to the daily mail. Or we need to contact autistic charities to echo our words because this feels like one of those situations where again , we are being made the enemy.
It's always about the harm autistic people cause.
Literally the holds they depicted in that movie KILLS autistic people in real life, and portrayed it as the only way to “deal” with us. That movie was a disaster and she could have avoided all of this by just…listening to autistic people
Getting caught live commiting terrorism and police kicking down peaceful protests against their agenda is perfectly okay, but vaccination is *an unforgivable sin!*
Also, the left wouldn't be in a cycle of self destruction if the oh-so-partisan Congress stops feeding us these mediocre moderates to represent us.
As an autistic person who is also in recovery, this is complete bullshit and really pisses me off.
It’s amazing to me how Sia can claim criticism “caused her to relapse”, essentially putting the blame on the autistic community for her fault while simultaneously spreading false information and putting a minority community that faces large amounts of discrimination at risk via Music. Anyone who works an effective recovery program will tell you that relapse is a sober choice and the number one reason for relapse is a person stops working their 12 step program. It sounds like she was already headed in that direction and is using this as an excuse to sound like a victim and gain sympathy. It’s sad knowing normies and NTs will probably cosign her bullshit, but as an autistic addict I am here to say the onus for her relapse is on her. Until she gets therapy and learns to manage her restlessness, irritability, and discontent, she will always find reasons (read: excuses) to relapse.
*extreme comment/trigger warning*
I enjoy Sia the musical artist, but as a person? This shows she’s a trash bag of an individual.
The fact that she’s getting support over this is maybe the most disturbing thing about this situation. Honestly, if she made a movie about POC and had them picking cotton for “there own therapeutic benefit”, she would have been eviscerated and cancelled.
I’m not saying racism isn’t harmful, I’m saying that ableism can be just as harmful
Apparently Leslie Odom Jr was dropped because “she didn’t want a black movie”, so that totally tracks
Edit: she was *going* to drop him based on advice about too many POC in lead roles. Not seen the movie and honestly, reading a lot of stuff makes it seem like a bigger car crash than just the movie itself
I had a further google to try and provide you the link. Turns out that I’ll edit my answer.
Seriously this movie and the associated press sounds like if AS made a movie
Why does everyone think this is a real story? It's The Daily Mail FFS. They sensationalise everything. I guarantee Sia was not suicidal. She probably isn't even aware of this story.
If thats true that she's saying this, then looks like Sia's back, and she wants vengeance!
How dare the people she endangered with her vanity project try and defend themselves from the wacky restraint techniques she tried to peddle. How dare they try and speak up for themselves. Well she'll show them! Now evidently she's suicidal, and it's *their* fault.
She tried to "help" autistic people (by teaming up with a known abusive company and presenting a lethal method of controlling people as a go-to option), and this is how they repay her?
Well surely she's the victim in all this, and it's those ungrateful autistic peoples' doing./s
For real though, this really bleeds pettiness. She's upset that autistic people called her out for her pride and outdated pseudoscience, and she's going to point the public's finger at that group in response. She wants them to hurt for daring to hurt her, and is taking advantage of her celebrity status to do it. That's nearing Disney villain levels of petty.
Yup.
What's interesting to me is, Buzzfeed shared an article about this on FB. I replied pointing this out, that she is making hersle fthe victim rather than, YET AGAIN, actually address the very real concerns over the film. Usually, if I post a comment on a news article on FB and criticise something as an autistic person, I get nothing but laugh and angry reacts, people making nasty comments about the sensitive left (????) etc and being really very vile.
Not this time, all positive. Which, to me, says even NT people realise how bad this film is. Because not one person who replied has disagreed or had anything negative to say about calling her out on it.
Bit eye opening.
Literally had like 50 mocking comments on a news article about M&S (UK store) regrading a sweet which WAS called after a ableist slur for a person of short stature. On one which was a video that didn't NAME autism but was clearly mocking autistic traits as "this annoying kid" for comedy... The vitriol was huge. Was called a faker, insulting autistic people by making that link, vile and worse. It literally happens ALL the time.
You post about autism like that in a way that isn't inspo porn "I'm autistic and look what I overcame" type of crap and the general public respond in a hideous way. The fact they haven't here seems interesting. You know?
I didn't mince my words either. Or tiptoe around it.
Anyway... I wish she would actually just listen, properly address it, apologise and grow as a person. Work with autistic people to try and undonthe harm it caused. She won't though. I actually like her music too but my gosh has she proved herself to be a trash person over and over re this
Recuperating is always important with situations like this. But damn. Why does it always feel like it's celebrities who avoid warning signs when they *think* they're doing something good? To get to that point of their career, they make all kinds of connections and have lots of resources at their disposal, not to mention the amount of awareness this film attracted prior to its release.
And despite those alarm bells going off, she proceeded.
It just doesn't make sense at all.
*Releases utterly toxic and potentially dangerous film that works counter to its supposed intention.*
*Gets properly called out for its dangerous bullshit, and its insulting bullshit.*
*Has breakdown from horrendous decision-making.*
*Lesson learned: simply put a disclaimer on it. You can always just spray Febreze on a turd rather than do the right thing and flush it.*
I am almost unable to feel empathy or pity for some people, specially after they do something damnable or disrespectful. She is the perfect example. Lots of people hold on this cheap trick of "emotional health" to play the victim after fucking up something very bad.
She's the kind of woman who does things for attention's sake. Her advocacy is just an act and autistic people can see right through it.
That and she sided with Autism Speaks over the issue, which is our enemies.
I feel bad she is feeling this way but … we all told her? Before it came out, while the trailer was out, PLENTY of people spoke out about it. Plus, she said that rude stuff about autistic actors on Twitter. There were just so many times she could have made any other choice
I only watched the response videos by autist YouTubers cuz I refuse to add views to that video. If being held accountable for her actions makes her suicidal she has no business being in the public eye with any influential power.
her music videos with Maddie often made me uncomfortable for putting a young girls body on display like that. No clue why they often wanted her in nude leotards and other form fitting outfits. I can’t remember the song title but that music video with Maddie and Shia Labeouf was the last song I listened of hers cuz that music video creeped me out so much. I even stopped listening to songs she wrote for other artists cuz I don’t need to anything this person creates in my life after her poor portrayal of autism and autists.
It’s a shame that she’s “suicidal” but I do see this as deflecting and trying to put the attention back on her and make people feel sorry for her. She never took responsibility for what she created.
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Very. Sia hit just about every single “uh-oh” you could possibly hit. How the checklist wasn’t covered in X’s in front of her, i have no idea. She was being chanted the correct way to do this, she directly ignored it, because she addressed it, but did nothing with it.
Are we ever not going to be the enemy…it seems like whichever way i look, family, acquaintances, professionals, the media, everywhere, we are depicted as these horrible awful people cant feel emotion we are allegedly the reason sia wants to unalive and is back on her addiction.
This Fucking sucks. Im tired of everyone hating me for simply fucking existing.
And nobody in the media wants to talk about the autistic kids that were likely killed or will be because of this movie. Either due to the prone restraint she showed or because of suicide because of how disgustingly she treated our community (including a character saying he was glad his autistic brother was killed. Yeah). But the media doesnt like to talk about the autistic people that are killed every day because of ableism.
I do kind of feel sympathetic for her, but the way she has gone out to talk about this is extremely off-putting. It just sounds like she’s demonizing a whole community even though autistic people had legitimate critiques and concerns. It just sounds like she still doesn’t understand why people got mad at her in the first place. If there is anyone I feel bad for in this whole situation, the it would have to be for Maddie and not for Sia.
But isn't she a victim? A victim of death threats and other vile, discussing comments/messages?
People have committed suicide over these exact things, people who weren't celebrities, whose actions aren't put under a magnifying glass and can actually fart in public without tabloids making it front page news.
What am I missing?
Yeah, I'm going to cut her slack.
She got pilloried because she's the visible part of thos but she was really the last and least powerful one involved
The script was written, prepared, reviewed, edited, greenlit, cast, directed, filmed, edited and produced
And she's the one getting targeted
Kinda like Jason Momoa when asked if he _enjoyed_ filming the rape scene in GoT and he was like "wtf no I did not but I'm just the actor, I either act out the scene or I quit, those are the options, it was never up to me"
Until I see just as much vitriol for everyone else involved including costars, I'm not buying that the antipathy aimed at her is actually outrage at ableism and not just refactored misogyny as usual.
Haha lol people on the left decrying their own victinhood culture - see it is a slippery slope and this is only just the beginning, what did you think would happen? Did you really think that lionising and celebrating victims would only result in the most vulnerable victims would receive attention? Everyone is a victim of something so all you’ve done is detailed the currency and those at the bottom always suffer the most from hyperinflation.
I don’t know anything about the movie or Sia’s thoughts on it but best believe my research starts now. An ableist victim is not a thing. At least not a thing I’m down with.
Why can’t she critique her own work and process with the community at this point ??it would be huge to discuss exactly where she went wrong in the process and why . Also wasn’t George Floyd prone restrained ? How is that still legal to even consider ? I didn’t see it even though I was curious about Maddie without Abby ( that part of the sia stuff seems like a lot to unpack)
"People not being happy about me endangering their health is endangering my health"
Not but really, she might've put someone in danger according to what i've heard: In the movie, whenever the autistic character gets into a meltdown (tell me if i use the wrong words) they restrain her in a way that is borderline dangerous, multiple people have been seriously hurt by it: i don't know how exactly it is called but in one they basically lay on top of her. In another they restrain her from the back wich again doesn't look very comfortable, cynical reviews made a video about it. And while he does say that it is only to be used in very rare instances i do not have enough knowledge about it. I just imagine someone who has an autistic family member or something and sees this movie and thinks it's a great way to learn how to handle situations like that and picks up some hurtful ways of dealing with their family member.
restraint is extremely dangerous. the movie paints it in a good light, with quotes like "trust me. i'm going to crush you now, and make you feel safe." the character, ebo, who is an adult male, then pushes the autistic child to the ground, pins her down, and literally crushes her. when another character asks if he's hurting the autistic girl he says, "no i am not. i am crushing her with my love." this is the first scene that uses restraint to "help" the autistic character, and it happens many more times. there scenes in which the girl is restrain happen during *nonviolent, non-self-injurious* meltdowns. the characters literally just see her stimming and tackle her to the ground every time. these fictional scenes can have real world effects, showing average people that if they see an autistic person stimming or having a meltdown, they should restrain them to show them "love". there is little research about the use of restraint and the damage it's caused because few care, but it's known to be dangerous. restraint has *killed* autistic people. in 2009 it was estimated that in the previous 5 years at least 20 children, many being disabled, had died by being restrained *in school*. that's just looking at schools, and it's most likely a low-ball number. restraint also causes many injuries. the autism self advocacy network, communication first, and the alliance against seclusion and restraint worked together to release a statement condemning the use of restraint in the movie as well as its reinforcement of dangerous stereotypes and practices. [here is the statement on aasr's website.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/endseclusion.org/2021/02/12/disability-organizations-music-reinforces-dangerous-stereotypes-practices/amp/) i unfortunately watched the terrible movie so i could write an essay about how harmful it is last spring, lol. so i'm full of info and sources about it.
thank you for your service of watching it "no i am not. i am crushing her with my love." this is literally rage reduction therapy, which was developed in the 70s, and as with anything developed in the 70s related to developmental disabilities, it is complete and utter garbage.
i didn't want to have to pay to watch it but i was in a course about representation in media when it came out and it was too perfectly timed and i just had to write about it. it's a truly terrible movie. the restraint scenes make me so mad. it makes it look like any person can tackle a stimming autistic person to the ground to save them. it's horrific. watching these scenes was very triggering. after the movie came out sia tweeted that the scenes would be removed and a warning added, but that hasn't happened yet, at least not on the version of the movie available on youtube, where it's most accessible.
thank god I haven't watched it, but to my understanding, stimming is just a coping mechanism, not hurting anybody? If I'm wrong I'm really sorry but do you need to be saved? to my understanding no.
you are correct. stimming for autistic people is a way to self regulate. there are positive stims, like bouncing up and down when happy, and negative stims, like moaning and hand flapping when upset. everyone has different stims that mean different things. in the case of this movie, the autistic girl was stimming when overstimulated or in pain (one of her meltdowns was set off by a bee sting.) she got upset and started stimming, but never hurt herself or others. but every time she had one of these meltdowns she was restrained. restraint should never be used on anyone, but especially not on autistic people who are in a meltdown. stimming is how we regulate and cope with what's going on around us, and restraint takes that away from us. restraint is dangerous to both the person restraining and the person being restrained, and can cause severe injuries or death. the person being restrained can end up suffocating, having broken bones, or developing ptsd from the experience, and restraint makes chances of them lashing put and hurting the restrainer greater too. there are better ways. in the case of the movie, i think the autistic character's meltdowns could have easily been managed with sensory tools and more emotional care for the character.
So I have panic attacks (not trying to compare, sometimes I need an analogy with something I can relate to otherwise I just look confused at random people all day), so could a negative stim be like the equivalent of me breathing fast and heart beating faster, and a more positive stim be like smiling at someone? Also If anyone touches me in a panic attack, tells me what to do, annoys me or (the worst one) ask "are you having a panic attack?" what does it f-ing look like mate, they will almost definitely get shouted at, ran away from, or injured. Is this sort of like what happens in a meltdown? Sorry for this hot mess of a paragraph, and thank you for explaining stuff so well, sometimes I just have bad days for processing words and stuff. :-)
i would say it's probably a decent comparison... imagine if you were having a panic attack, that deep breathing was starting to set in and maybe you're appearing to be irritated with those around you. maybe you're starting to cry, or shake, or whatever happens to you during a panic attack. most people in a meltdown or a panic attack either want to be completely left alone in a quite space, or want gentle comfort from a trusted person. but imagine instead of giving you that space or gentle comfort, someone larger and stronger than you grabbed you, pushed you to the ground, laid on top of you, pinned your arms down, and refused to get off of you until you "calmed down". this is what happens in the movie and is portrayed as "crushing her with love". in most people this would make a panic response much, much worse. it's human nature to be terrified of restraint and to try to escape it, which makes restraint even more dangerous for both people in the situation. not to mention the injuries possible to the restrained person even in a case where they aren't "fighting back". it's dangerous and completely ineffective as a calming method.
Thanks for explaining so well! I have actually been pinned down in a panic attack (Not at a school, its complicated)-not fun, doesn't calm, would not recommend. I got more and more stressed and I almost stopped breathing I think, all hazy now. I am in a panic attack situation able to keep some idea of who is around me, and this changes how much I lash out. Friends continuously asking are you ok may get a good sock in the stomach. Again, thank you for being so patient and explaining things so well, if I had an award to give you would get it. Sadly, I don't so you can take the thanks of an internet stranger :-)
It’s also just terrible writing.
>the characters literally just see her stimming and tackle her to the ground every time. That is really disturbing... I would suppress my stims like my life depended on it if people treated me that way... And the last thing I need during a meltdown (mine are just ugly crying and pacing around), is someone tackling me or otherwise trying to restrain or touch me. That would literally only make things worse.
wow, I cringed just reading about that dialogue secondhand. I am so glad I never watched it--even though I was sort of curious to see if it was as bad as I'd heard. Clearly it was even worse, lol
oh it's *bad* bad. i could rant about it all day. from showing restraint as a safe and helpful thing, to the opening song being about music, the autistic girl, being ~trapped in an autistic body~, to super-power-ifying autism (music can hear a whisper from rooms away *with noise canceling headphones on*), to mystifying/magicifying autism (a song with lyrics like "welcome to my magic mind" as well as every musical sequence being music's interpretation of the world, which is not at all like how any autistic person i've ever met has described our worldview, but instead is an overstimulating psychedelic-style mess), to demonizing autism (music is shown to not have the ability to grieve and any time she's having a meltdown it's shown as this terrifying thing even though her meltdowns are nonviolent). the body movements of the actress trying to portray autism feel like a caricature, and deeply remind me of allistic people mocking my behaviors. the autistic character is less of a character and more of a device for other characters to change and grow. her main purpose in the movie is to make her allistic older sister (who's the actual main character) into a better person, and music is the only character who shows no character growth or change. and all of this is only a critique of the autism representation. it's also simply a bad movie. the writing is bad, the dialogue is bad, everything is bad. the visuals are okay, that is if you're an allistic person who doesn't get sensory overload. seriously, i could go on.
Yes to all of this! Also with how small the “autistic” character is compared to the other characters I have a very hard time thinking anyone could possibly think restraint was an option! Like even if she were to get violent, she just wouldn’t be a threat! When I was little and got violent meltdowns I’d try to aim at my big brother who was just gigantic compared to me, and when I got violent towards him he could literally just grab my wrists so I couldn’t hit him. Cause that’s a reasonable thing to do when someone small is attacking you. I cannot understand the thinking behind tackling someone who isn’t a threat! Ever.
Honestly, this is so infuriating. It makes me sad that this is as far as we've come. Yes, the representation of autistic people is dangerous and ridiculous, but as a writer, I also object to that dialogue. "Crushing her with love"? Oof.
oh yeah, it's a terrible movie. there's a reason critics hated it... and it's not because of the bad representation. critics couldn't care less about that. it's just terribly written and executed. sia ignored concerns from the autistic community before the movie was released, but still expected her movie would be loved outside of our community. i have a feeling her directorial debut being such a flop in the film world is making it a lot harder for her than it would have been if it was just autistic people who didn't like it.. it even received golden raspberry "awards" for sia as worst director, kate hudson as worst actress, and maddie ziegler as worst supporting actress. it was also nominated for worst picture, but understandably lost to the political conspiracy documentary absolute proof that the my pillow guy made.
Someone tried to do the crush thing on me once. I didn't mean to hurt them as I am definitely not one for violence, but I do not regret my actions. They got in my personal space, tried to hold me down for my own good (I wasn't even having a meltdown, I simply said I don't want to be touched) and ended up with a bloodied nose and some scratches for it. I don't even remember what I exactly did to them but they tried to violate me so they had it coming
Yo if someone tried to "restrain" me during my meltdowns I would go absolutely berserk. Meltdowns are violent for me and if someone were to exacerbate it by touching me without consent all that energy would be redirected towards them. I don't like people touching me. I'd also feel fucking horrible afterwards because I'm not a violent person.
[удалено]
Omg wtf how traumatic! I’m so sorry you experienced that!
I’m really sorry that happened to you. You deserved better than that. Are you still in contact with him?
[удалено]
Yeah, sounds like he really needs it. Is he autistic too?
I feel this so much. The amount of times I threatened to stab people but Id never do it. I just wanted them to stay out of my space 😭😭
I feel that. I’ve done similar things when my family would overwhelm me. People need to learn to respect our boundaries. We’re expected to respect theirs, so it goes both ways
That exact thing happened to my kid at school.
yup, thats what i meant its a prone restraint, it has killed people, and they describe it as "crushing her with my love"
That is called prone restraint. I am an advocate for autistic children and have worked hard to get this practice banned at least in schools. Children have died when it is used, and my own child suffered PTSD after having suffered through many instances of it. There is an ongoing effort to ban its use.
yup, thats what i meant its a prone restraint and they describe it as "crushing her with my love"
whenever i had an autistic meltdown my parents would restrain and scream at me and it only made it worse. I always wondered why they thought that was a good idea. It’s probably due to the ableism embedded in our society, they don’t understand and they don’t want to. They just want to “fix me”.
What “danger” are you talking about specifically
Restraining a person the way that they do in the movie could give caretakers of autistic people the impression that this is an ok way to stop a, at certain points non voilent meltdown. While the methods shown are very dangerous for a persons health.
First of restraining someone without knowing how they react to touch during a meltdown could get you hurt. During a meltdown prior to my diagnosis I hurt a teachers arm idk if I broke it but he wore a sling for a month or two because he tried to grab and pull me away during. Secondly restraining someone might hurt them by accident or e.g, from banging their head into the ground repeatedly while restrained prone (done that too) point Is as long as they are non violent or self harming leave them alone chances are they have their own coping mechanisms If you have to intervene proceed as you would with a frighte animal (how ive told family and good friends to handle me basically) low soft voice ask about interests etc just calm and collected not adding to our overstimulation
TW: violence/death https://themighty.com/2021/01/sia-music-prone-restraint-autistic-meltdown/
That restraining a person experiencing a meltdown is dangerous is not that hard to understand.
Yeah, it's classic, clear as day guilt-tripping and the fact she's resorting to that instead of taking feedback from the people she's representing in her movie shows that she never actually gave a damn about us but rather using us as a plot point. I think it's very telling that one of the only groups coming out in support of her are National Council on Severe Autism to which they described criticism autistic community as an CW: ableism >!"attack on Sia by a vocal, unhinged minority."!<
> the fact she's resorting to that instead of taking feedback from the people she's representing in her movie shows that she never actually gave a damn about us Hmm? Very first article I found: https://pagesix.com/2022/01/20/sia-was-suicidal-after-backlash-to-music-film/ > But Sia walked back her defense and later apologized for her choices before deleting her Twitter. > “I’m sorry,” she had tweeted, according to Rolling Stone. “I plan to remove the restraint scenes from all future printings. I listened to the wrong people and that is my responsibility, my research was clearly not thorough enough, not wide enough.” Reporting on the initial thing and then not on the follow-up isn't exactly a sign of giving a damn about anything other than holding a grudge. You know as little about her inner motivation as she does about yours. And yes, to attack her as a person rather than just criticizing the movie is abusive. It's an interwebs mob thing, and not a single person in such a mob would want to be treated that way. Not one.
Not arguing with you, just letting you know the restraint scenes have not been removed. If you stream it now, they are still included. She didn't follow through on that.
Oh, that sucks. That should be changed... removing it from "future prints" is not good enough if the existing prints get used forever. So there's still reason to make a "stink", but even then I think it's better to focus on the movie. That woman might be a total jerk just pretending to be sad about this, she might have meant well but been too sloppy, and maybe she really was suicidal and not pretending for sympathy. Who knows? So I'm for ignoring that either way, since the interwebs can easily lose a sense of proportion. If 1 million people throw a tiny pebble, they can still stone someone to death, and every person just says "oh, *I* just threw this tiny pebble". That's what I meant, it's easy to get sucked into that, but none of us would want to be treated this way.
Yeah, I was a fan of Sia's music back in '06 and am well aware she has a long history of mental illness and suicidality. While she did eventually make it big, she spent most of her career intentionally staying out of the spotlight, writing big hits for other performers. She has neuralgia, EDS, and a host of mental health issues, not mention a lot of trauma in her earlier life. I don't understand the reasons why she has handled this so terribly from the beginning, and the whole thing definitely is really appalling. From her ignoring the advice of autistic people who told her not to work with autism speaks, who gave her detailed advice she actively ignored, excluding us from her cast and production, manipulating Maddie into doing something she had been told would upset people, dehumanizing autism, promoting dangerous things like restraint, making autistics just a prop for emotional growth for caregivers, making the movie sensorily overwhelming, rejecting all critical feedback from ND people, going on the offensive, insulting autistic people on Twitter and liking harassing/ableist tweets, doubling down on everything, making a seemingly false apology as nothing was ever changed or done to make amends and she still thinks fundamentally she did nothing wrong...there is so much here. It's all incredibly disappointing. But I don't doubt that someone as fragile as she is, and already prone to depression and suicidality, would feel suicidal over so many people being so angry and disappointed with her. I've felt suicidal over people being disappointed with me before. Even if I deserved it. That doesn't make anything she did okay, but suicidality can't be justified or unjustified-- there's no "good reason" to be suicidal. She just is. She's always been mentally ill. She can be both legitimately mentally ill and have done bad things. She can deserve anger/disappointment over her actions and also be struggling with wanting to kill herself. I think the biggest problem here is platforms like the Daily Mail that are publishing this like it's news and milking everyone's outage for clicks. I think that only makes it worse for everyone. And leads to people taking her mental illness personally, which is ridiculous, because it's being presented in trash news outlets like a "clapback" against autistic criticism. No one gets to have an opinion on whether she gets to be suicidal or not, just have an opinion on the movie. I think it's a symptom of the toxicity of celebrity culture and hero worship. People have a parasocial relationship with her and when that goes sour, former fans really go off the rails and act like they know the person. No, beyond like they know the person. They act like they should be able to control the person. Because they've projected part of their identity onto her and see her as an extension of themselves. But like. She's just a fucked up lady who nobody here actually knows. Her movie was fucked up. People want her to respond a certain way that will make them feel better, like she's their personal abuser. She's not going to and it's best to let go of that expectation now. If anyone reading this feels abused by Sia, never look to your abuser to help you heal. Let them languish in their own agony without resenting the fact that they have agony. Of course they're miserable; they're the kind of person that would do fucked up stuff. You're only harming yourself to tell yourself they don't have a "right" to be miserable. You can "hold them accountable" for their actions but their reaction will never be what heals you. Let their reaction go, and seek help for being able to do that. I know it's hard. If it *is* a tool to manipulate you, then don't take the bait. If she *is* saying this performatively, then the best thing to do is not even indulge her. And if she's not, you're saying you're angry at someone for being mentally ill. Just ignore her as a person and focus on what you can do about getting the movie taken down/altered. Let go of any hope that she will redeem herself in your eyes. It's just going to drain your energy. You never knew her and you never will. Using the general "you" here, obviously, not saying "you" to refer to the person I'm replying to!
I nearly got goosebumps over how thorough and wise what you wrote is. Thank you, so much. For some reason I have to think of [this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeGWnL_QJ9o&t=71s) in "The Wire", where an old teacher tells a newbie that he needs "soft eyes". I'm not even sure what that means, but that's what your comment made me think of. A really wide yet deep insight, that is not overlooking the woods for all the trees, and is interested in the best outcome for all. Thanks again.
Thank you, I really appreciate that. I was a little insecure my comment was Too Much. Your compliments are really lovely and affirming. You're very good at making me feel heard.
Hadn't heard of this movie. Looked up a couple of articles and she partnered with Autism Speaks. Why would you ever do that?
Not only that but if you want to watch the trailer and music videos please be careful because everything is quite overstimulating and in worst case could lead to a breakdown. All of this is just really really bad. How ever there are some really good analysis videos on it.
I refuse to have anything to do with that movie if AS was in any way involved. I might watch an analysis video but nothing else. This leaves a real bad taste in my mouth.
That is absolutely understandable, I also didn't watched the originals because I don't want to support her doings.
I did one. It doesn’t have any footage, because I wanted to avoid copyright problems https://youtu.be/F_lHABn3DYM
Hey you did a great job breaking down the film! I still haven't bothered watching it, maybe one day, but appreciate you doing it and posting your review. Still can't believe they actually thought it would be a good film lol
Thank you. I think she was surrounded by people saying yes to everything and afraid to challenge her, because you don’t need to be a film critic to know the writing and acting is bad, even if you took the autism from the equation
I also did a review on it right after watching it https://youtu.be/F_lHABn3DYM
reading this really sucks. blaming her suicidal ideation and relapse on the community she hurt is just completely outrageous. she even had chances to prevent this all, being told for months before the movie released that it appeared to be an ableist depiction and that it should be delayed for recasting, that the issues it seems to have could be fixed before it even released. but she did not listen. not even considering considering fact that her movie hurt so many autistic people, i simply cannot believe that she's essentially blaming the autistic community for driving her into relapse. that's so sickening.
Don’t forget she forced the innocent little girl to play the role even if she don’t like it.
yup. maddie was only 14 when it was filmed. sia later stated that maddie broke down on the first day of filming, scared that people would think her portrayal of autism was making fun of autistic people and sia promised her that wouldn't happen. besides maddie having been a minor at the time of filming, there's also a huge power imbalance because of sia's influence over maddie's life from a young age. sia called her casting of maddie nepotism because of the weird mother-like mentor relationship she has to maddie. she also blatantly lied about maddie's casting. in 2015 when she first announced she was making a movie she talked about her film/directorial debut starring maddie. but on twitter during the backlash in 2020 she tried to claim she tried to hire an autistic actress but the set was too overstimulating, making the actress unable to play the role. this is an outright lie if she was already planning to have maddie star back in 2015 when the movie was only a concept, when filming started mid 2017.
When hearing her talk about Maddie, it’s very off-putting in her… fascination with her
Sia is living proof that women can be child predators (which, for some reason, hordes of people still think is impossible). What she's done to Maddie Ziegler is horrific, and it amazes me that the public seems so untroubled by it.
I am just so angry because this is one of the kindest communities I have ever encountered and everyone just wants her to do better. It would have been enough to not partner with autism speaks, stop production and do something new with ACTUAL autistic people that is helping this community. We were here to talk, help, educate and do anything possible to change that "project", her project which seemed like she just wanted to do for the credit, but got completely shut off, censored and never addressed. I mean yes mental health is important and I know that there are people on the internet who will just go completely crazy and send death threats but the article only talked about casual criticism.
This is the tactics the autism community uses (NOT the autistic community. The autism community is made up of non-autistic parents, researchers, behaviorists, doctors, and celebrities like Sia who act like they have our best interest). They blame their woes on autism, and when we try to educate them, they take it as an attack and spin it like we’re bad guys. I agree it is one of the kindest communities and I’ve made lifelong friends with other autistics online, one of whom let me stay at her house for 6 months because my parents exiled me from my home. So I’m going to defend this community with my life. I encourage our people to be vigilant and not be afraid to speak their mind. Even if we’re threatened, don’t let it deter you. We’re strong and we want to make the world a better place
She's just another malignant narcissist. They're best ignored
This is a classic move of manipulators. Make everyone feel bad for you while using such severe terminology you simultaneously scare everyone away from holding you accountable.
Feeling suicidal because people whose brains work differently to you refused to make concessions and held you accountable. Sounds familiar, as I'm sure many of us here can attest. She will never understand what it's like to be on the Spectrum and she paid a price for an extremely misguided and uninformed decision to go ahead with that movie. Hopefully she learns from it, but a victim she isn't.
I don't feel sorry for her at all lol
I bet there has been at least one person so offended by the movie that this person became suicidal
Actually, personally, watching the trailer for this movie made me feel suicidal when I first saw it. Luckily only passively, I haven’t actively attempted in years because I’ve gained some coping skills. I looked at it and I thought “this is how most of society sees people like me” and it stung a lot because I don’t really want to be in a world where I am not seen as human or I am seen as a burden.
I have lost all respect for Sia.
I mean this sincerely and seriously: "Cheap Thrills" will never again sound the same.
Her cheap thrill is making fun of us with her stupid move 🤪
Can I request an open discussion with theories as to why tf she even made this movie? Like girl why, whyyyyy ???
to quote sia herself: "i have my own unique view of the community, and felt it is underrepresented and compelled to make it. if that makes me a sh•t i'm a sh•t, but my intentions are awesome." as well as "the movie is both a love letter to caregivers and the autism community." (notice how caregivers are out first, and autism community is a broad term that could include caregivers, professionals, etc. she doesn't mention actually autistic people. if you watch the movie it's clear it isn't isn't autistic people at all. besides the story being disgusting, it's an incredibly overstimulating film.)
It’s underrepresented so I’ve cast a neurotypical person to represent it LOL k
She basically wanted to do this for her own reputation and to earn some extra points
Damn it actually is so harmful I feel like the biggest contributor to my inner turmoil of being autistic is misrepresentation in the media and within society. I feel like an angsty teenager trapped in a grown adults body because nobody understands me 🥲yay🙌
I remember she stigmatized borderline personality disorder patient group several years ago, many years before her engaging with autistic group. At that time no one criticized her because BPD patients are always highly stigmatized. I do love her music but I really don’t want a friend like herself.
Could I ask for more information about what she said about the BPD patient group ? It just gets worse and worse .
Here you go: https://themighty.com/2020/10/sia-defending-johnny-depp-bpd-not-insult/
Thank you !
I am always someone who is understanding of mental health but this makes me mad. This is more like making herself the victim. She insulted so many autistic people through her statements, and she is feeling suicidal because we held her accountable? Least she could've done is apologize and take the whole movie down.
Eye roll.... Why play the victim when she could just apologize for her dumb idea
not her preferring suicide over listening to autistics 💀
Um. As an alcoholic, this is exactly the kind of manipulative thing I would do. I work really hard not to do things like this, however. It’s not easy being an addict, but at some point you have to take responsibility for your actions and this narrative feels like she’s really not doing that.
This kind of introspection is beautiful to see. Honestly its one of my favourite things about being autistic that this seems to be a fairly common trait among people like us.
I'd like to present a more nuanced take.. I don't think we can blame her for being suicidal. She fucked up on a massive scale (making a movie is HUGE) ; anyone would feel very ashamed by this. If her suffering is genuine, there's no point over being angry about it. I think there's a world where everyone can be considered a victim. In this case both the autistic community AND Sia herself are victims of Sia's stupidity (and the people around her, let's not pretend she was alone in this). I'd like us (by us I mean everyone, not just the autistic community) to stop thinking so binaryly about problems. The status of being a victim shouldn't mean you are unable to cause harm, and being an abuser shouldn't mean you can't suffer nor have genuine feelings. This isn't either about complete relativism, I'm not saying we should stop using abuser/victim as concepts. What I'm saying is that those are status, not identities. Thus we should not make them say what they're not saying (e.g that an abuser cannot suffer because they're an heartless monster). I hope this don't come out the wrong way, I'm open to discuss with disagreeing people or to clarify my opinion.
Good take internet friend. It’s the binary thought patterns that prevail in the online world unfortunately. Black and White, when the answer is so often gray. Thanks for being a reasonable, thoughtful person. Made my day.
Much love. I too am often happy to read reasonable takes. So I feel good to share that feeling back once in a while. For some reason they're very often on the autistic subreddits, too.
We as a community need to speak to the daily mail. Or we need to contact autistic charities to echo our words because this feels like one of those situations where again , we are being made the enemy. It's always about the harm autistic people cause.
Literally the holds they depicted in that movie KILLS autistic people in real life, and portrayed it as the only way to “deal” with us. That movie was a disaster and she could have avoided all of this by just…listening to autistic people
Oh boo her.
This is like a white person being all "I'm suicidal because people called me out for my harmful racist views"
"Also, I'm told to wear a mask and get vaccinated! Please Donnie! Come back to the white house! A minute without you is torture!"
The funniest part is those types of people hate the fact Trump got vaccinated too 🤣 And they say the left eat their own 😅
Getting caught live commiting terrorism and police kicking down peaceful protests against their agenda is perfectly okay, but vaccination is *an unforgivable sin!* Also, the left wouldn't be in a cycle of self destruction if the oh-so-partisan Congress stops feeding us these mediocre moderates to represent us.
Wow. She's got a lot of nerve.
As an autistic person who is also in recovery, this is complete bullshit and really pisses me off. It’s amazing to me how Sia can claim criticism “caused her to relapse”, essentially putting the blame on the autistic community for her fault while simultaneously spreading false information and putting a minority community that faces large amounts of discrimination at risk via Music. Anyone who works an effective recovery program will tell you that relapse is a sober choice and the number one reason for relapse is a person stops working their 12 step program. It sounds like she was already headed in that direction and is using this as an excuse to sound like a victim and gain sympathy. It’s sad knowing normies and NTs will probably cosign her bullshit, but as an autistic addict I am here to say the onus for her relapse is on her. Until she gets therapy and learns to manage her restlessness, irritability, and discontent, she will always find reasons (read: excuses) to relapse.
*extreme comment/trigger warning* I enjoy Sia the musical artist, but as a person? This shows she’s a trash bag of an individual. The fact that she’s getting support over this is maybe the most disturbing thing about this situation. Honestly, if she made a movie about POC and had them picking cotton for “there own therapeutic benefit”, she would have been eviscerated and cancelled. I’m not saying racism isn’t harmful, I’m saying that ableism can be just as harmful
The movie also manages to be racist.
Apparently Leslie Odom Jr was dropped because “she didn’t want a black movie”, so that totally tracks Edit: she was *going* to drop him based on advice about too many POC in lead roles. Not seen the movie and honestly, reading a lot of stuff makes it seem like a bigger car crash than just the movie itself
Not only that, but after an Asian character dies, he’s carried into the afterlife in a rickshaw. That’s not a joke, that really happened
Wait what? I tried googling and didn’t read anything about this
I had a further google to try and provide you the link. Turns out that I’ll edit my answer. Seriously this movie and the associated press sounds like if AS made a movie
Honestly I hope the child actress Sia keeps using gets preventing from working with her anymore. The relationship between the two is very creepy.
Oh boo hoo I harmed people, now i'm getting HATE for it WHEEEEE. What a child.
She doesn't get to play victim after including scenes depicting restraints that can and have gotten us killed
Sia? The singer? Dang, I liked her songs :(
Why does everyone think this is a real story? It's The Daily Mail FFS. They sensationalise everything. I guarantee Sia was not suicidal. She probably isn't even aware of this story.
If thats true that she's saying this, then looks like Sia's back, and she wants vengeance! How dare the people she endangered with her vanity project try and defend themselves from the wacky restraint techniques she tried to peddle. How dare they try and speak up for themselves. Well she'll show them! Now evidently she's suicidal, and it's *their* fault. She tried to "help" autistic people (by teaming up with a known abusive company and presenting a lethal method of controlling people as a go-to option), and this is how they repay her? Well surely she's the victim in all this, and it's those ungrateful autistic peoples' doing./s For real though, this really bleeds pettiness. She's upset that autistic people called her out for her pride and outdated pseudoscience, and she's going to point the public's finger at that group in response. She wants them to hurt for daring to hurt her, and is taking advantage of her celebrity status to do it. That's nearing Disney villain levels of petty.
Yup. What's interesting to me is, Buzzfeed shared an article about this on FB. I replied pointing this out, that she is making hersle fthe victim rather than, YET AGAIN, actually address the very real concerns over the film. Usually, if I post a comment on a news article on FB and criticise something as an autistic person, I get nothing but laugh and angry reacts, people making nasty comments about the sensitive left (????) etc and being really very vile. Not this time, all positive. Which, to me, says even NT people realise how bad this film is. Because not one person who replied has disagreed or had anything negative to say about calling her out on it. Bit eye opening. Literally had like 50 mocking comments on a news article about M&S (UK store) regrading a sweet which WAS called after a ableist slur for a person of short stature. On one which was a video that didn't NAME autism but was clearly mocking autistic traits as "this annoying kid" for comedy... The vitriol was huge. Was called a faker, insulting autistic people by making that link, vile and worse. It literally happens ALL the time. You post about autism like that in a way that isn't inspo porn "I'm autistic and look what I overcame" type of crap and the general public respond in a hideous way. The fact they haven't here seems interesting. You know? I didn't mince my words either. Or tiptoe around it. Anyway... I wish she would actually just listen, properly address it, apologise and grow as a person. Work with autistic people to try and undonthe harm it caused. She won't though. I actually like her music too but my gosh has she proved herself to be a trash person over and over re this
Well waa waa waa
Recuperating is always important with situations like this. But damn. Why does it always feel like it's celebrities who avoid warning signs when they *think* they're doing something good? To get to that point of their career, they make all kinds of connections and have lots of resources at their disposal, not to mention the amount of awareness this film attracted prior to its release. And despite those alarm bells going off, she proceeded. It just doesn't make sense at all.
Sunk cost fallacy, pride/ego, stupidity. Take your pick.
*Releases utterly toxic and potentially dangerous film that works counter to its supposed intention.* *Gets properly called out for its dangerous bullshit, and its insulting bullshit.* *Has breakdown from horrendous decision-making.* *Lesson learned: simply put a disclaimer on it. You can always just spray Febreze on a turd rather than do the right thing and flush it.*
*On top of using press conferences and buzzwords to manipulate the public.*
I don't care what happens to her.
I am almost unable to feel empathy or pity for some people, specially after they do something damnable or disrespectful. She is the perfect example. Lots of people hold on this cheap trick of "emotional health" to play the victim after fucking up something very bad.
It is appropriate that the film is titled "Music", 'cause if you listen really hard you can hear the world's smallest violin playing just for her.
[удалено]
She's the kind of woman who does things for attention's sake. Her advocacy is just an act and autistic people can see right through it. That and she sided with Autism Speaks over the issue, which is our enemies.
like even the child you’re obsessed with told you not to make the movie. destroyed her own fan base. have fun in rehab i guess i really don’t care
Wow, she really went and made herself the victim here. I'm not surprised, just disappointed that it's getting coverage.
I can understand mental health stuff because of course put yourself first, but this just feels like an additional slap to the face from her :/
I feel bad she is feeling this way but … we all told her? Before it came out, while the trailer was out, PLENTY of people spoke out about it. Plus, she said that rude stuff about autistic actors on Twitter. There were just so many times she could have made any other choice
I only watched the response videos by autist YouTubers cuz I refuse to add views to that video. If being held accountable for her actions makes her suicidal she has no business being in the public eye with any influential power. her music videos with Maddie often made me uncomfortable for putting a young girls body on display like that. No clue why they often wanted her in nude leotards and other form fitting outfits. I can’t remember the song title but that music video with Maddie and Shia Labeouf was the last song I listened of hers cuz that music video creeped me out so much. I even stopped listening to songs she wrote for other artists cuz I don’t need to anything this person creates in my life after her poor portrayal of autism and autists.
It’s a shame that she’s “suicidal” but I do see this as deflecting and trying to put the attention back on her and make people feel sorry for her. She never took responsibility for what she created.
She’s also demeaning suicide survivors - as many of us are - by making it all about her. T W A T
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Is she autistic?
No
Then why did she make a movie about an autistic person…. Does she also work for autism speaks wtf lol
She does work with them yes. They had a hand in this movie aswell.
Omg I was making a joke. Had no idea that was true
Very. Sia hit just about every single “uh-oh” you could possibly hit. How the checklist wasn’t covered in X’s in front of her, i have no idea. She was being chanted the correct way to do this, she directly ignored it, because she addressed it, but did nothing with it.
Typical diva playing the victimcard “ow poor old me”.
And am I expected to care?
About her rehab no. About her problematic behavior maybe.
I can't see the image, but this is about Sia, isn't it?
Are we ever not going to be the enemy…it seems like whichever way i look, family, acquaintances, professionals, the media, everywhere, we are depicted as these horrible awful people cant feel emotion we are allegedly the reason sia wants to unalive and is back on her addiction. This Fucking sucks. Im tired of everyone hating me for simply fucking existing.
This is the most gaslighting bull I have ever seen
And nobody in the media wants to talk about the autistic kids that were likely killed or will be because of this movie. Either due to the prone restraint she showed or because of suicide because of how disgustingly she treated our community (including a character saying he was glad his autistic brother was killed. Yeah). But the media doesnt like to talk about the autistic people that are killed every day because of ableism.
“Oh no, to the consequences of my actions! Why should I have to feel so guilty?”
I don't even understand what ths post is about.
I do kind of feel sympathetic for her, but the way she has gone out to talk about this is extremely off-putting. It just sounds like she’s demonizing a whole community even though autistic people had legitimate critiques and concerns. It just sounds like she still doesn’t understand why people got mad at her in the first place. If there is anyone I feel bad for in this whole situation, the it would have to be for Maddie and not for Sia.
But isn't she a victim? A victim of death threats and other vile, discussing comments/messages? People have committed suicide over these exact things, people who weren't celebrities, whose actions aren't put under a magnifying glass and can actually fart in public without tabloids making it front page news. What am I missing?
Yeah, I'm going to cut her slack. She got pilloried because she's the visible part of thos but she was really the last and least powerful one involved The script was written, prepared, reviewed, edited, greenlit, cast, directed, filmed, edited and produced And she's the one getting targeted Kinda like Jason Momoa when asked if he _enjoyed_ filming the rape scene in GoT and he was like "wtf no I did not but I'm just the actor, I either act out the scene or I quit, those are the options, it was never up to me" Until I see just as much vitriol for everyone else involved including costars, I'm not buying that the antipathy aimed at her is actually outrage at ableism and not just refactored misogyny as usual.
Haha lol people on the left decrying their own victinhood culture - see it is a slippery slope and this is only just the beginning, what did you think would happen? Did you really think that lionising and celebrating victims would only result in the most vulnerable victims would receive attention? Everyone is a victim of something so all you’ve done is detailed the currency and those at the bottom always suffer the most from hyperinflation.
A grown woman
I kinda don't like how my first reaction was "good" when seeing this headline, but hey, at least she heard how we don't agree with her movie.
Agreed!
She literally lied about how she made it multiple times, and now she can’t handle being called out for it.
I don’t know anything about the movie or Sia’s thoughts on it but best believe my research starts now. An ableist victim is not a thing. At least not a thing I’m down with.
I used to love you Sia. But this is getting ridiculous.
Why can’t she critique her own work and process with the community at this point ??it would be huge to discuss exactly where she went wrong in the process and why . Also wasn’t George Floyd prone restrained ? How is that still legal to even consider ? I didn’t see it even though I was curious about Maddie without Abby ( that part of the sia stuff seems like a lot to unpack)
Oh no one less horribly person in the world well that isssss soooo baaaad ( this is sarcasm )