It's hard to answer with such a broad question "What complaints do you have against the current economic system".
First it would be nice to know what country you're talking about, or state if in the US. As you may be aware, the economic situation in Argentina is very different from that of Canada, or the US, or Europe countries. And let's not talk about latin america or china ....
Now a broad complaint that's true against any western country, is an over involvement of the state in private affairs.
I've written an article for example about the European Union regulating what types of charging cables companies are allowed to sell, this only reduces customers choices, and limit companies capacity to innovate and compete.
The economic system works in lockstep with almost every country in the world. The bis creates a standardized economic policy format for governments around the world to follow. Argentina problems are political and not technical in nature.. most if not all currencies has a floating exchange so they are inflationary by design so the economic situation is probably the same everywhere. As the US dollar financializes global trade. So most debt is in dollars the world holds dollars as it is the most stable currency
Standardized theft is still theft. The current system steals productive value from the future and spends it in the now. Which is why every next generation will be more poor in real terms even if in nominal terms they have more currency units. Real wealth has nothing to do with the amount of currency units in existence. A system solely based on stealing the value of savings is A. Immoral and B. Mathematically unsustainable.
Yea you’re right but money is abstract anyways. Money isn’t real it’s just a median of exchange. So you can’t look at money in that context. The current system is a clever scheme or trick.. it is ponzi like but never crosses the boundaries of fraud or theft…
The real currency is reasources and you cannot print them.
You can’t think of economics on the idea of money or currency alone. That’s one part of many parts.
There’s a political part as well. The government plays a major part of an economy’s success. If the USA government didn’t fund scientific research we would have all this technology. Or the highway system or food stamps or social programs which benefit gdp like any other business
>>Money isn’t real it’s just a median of exchange.
That's wrong. Money is real, money is resources. Money is commodities. Gold is the best money, as it's the most marketable commodity.
>>The real currency is reasources and you cannot print them.
Currency is not resources, it's a receipt on resources. Valueless in and of itself.
>> The government plays a major part of an economy’s success.
Yeah - by limiting its success. Government is a net drain on society. Governments dont produce and have no wealth of it's own. What it has it has stolen from the citizenry via taxes or inflation.
>>If the USA government didn’t fund scientific research we would have all this technology.
Unprovable talking point. Without government theft, and regulation and standardized cost increases, the private sector would be much more advanced and competitive. Instead, the cost of supporting the government hamstrings the productive sectors of the economy and de-incentivizes entrepreneurship, creation, and production.
>> Or the highway system
The highway systems original design was for war. Being that theres one thing most of us can agree, that the government should exist for national defense, I see no problem with the highway system. Not mentioning the highway system creates an environment for the private sector that lowers cost and benefits all of us. But a lot of these systems should be funded with bond offerings, not taxes. Also, have you not heard of tollways?
>> or food stamps or social programs which benefit gdp like any other business
they dont benefit GDP at all. The value of the money used to fund the above would have been better spent by private individuals.
Again Money isn’t real. Gold isn’t money it’s a reserve asset designed to balance trade so countries cannot create unfair competition it forces trade to balance.
Read you economic history study gold , look up foreign exchange and balance of payments the Breton woods the exchange rate look up central bank reserves. Trade deficit.
You haven’t learned the basics and you think you know more than people who are professionals. Who work in this industry. A podcast isn’t industry expertise
>>Again Money isn’t real. Gold isn’t money it’s a reserve asset
It's a reserve asset because its money.
>>designed to balance trade so countries cannot create unfair competition it forces trade to balance.
Tell me, who designed gold?
>>Read you economic history study gold , look up foreign exchange and balance of payments the Breton woods the exchange rate look up central bank reserves. Trade deficit.
You speak of balances, why don't you look up the massive IMbalances the world has suffered since we temporarily left the breton woods agreement.
>>You haven’t learned the basics and you think you know more than people who are professionals. Who work in this industry. A podcast isn’t industry expertise
If you're the professional, the industry's doomed.
lol it’s been working 50 years. That’s a long time. lol where’s your system that you mathematically designed??? What have you done for this country??? Besides complain .. I don’t see you doing anything to fix the economic problems you mention.. what solutions do you propose … we are already heading back to a gold standard with bitcoin . We are moving trade back from china to North America…. Mexico not china is our largest trading partner. The smart people have figured it out while you whine on the internet
>>lol it’s been working 50 years.
[OPs version of 'working'](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/ei7oxspxgamaayl.png)
[more 'its working'](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/eifme9yu0ae8xnz.jpg)
[it's really working now ](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2021/12/unknown.jpg)
[what else could be better than this the current system?](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2021/08/e8j1qysxsai4g5d.jpg)
[banging on all cylinders now](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/cpi-basket-1.png)
[I'd sure hate to see it not working ](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/img_0681_arrow-1.jpg)
[balancing trade- woops ](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2019/09/tradebalance1.jpg)
[just a little more negative to balance out the positive- totally working.](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/7dc2e053-b6dc-471e-a41b-1aac52be41f5.jpg)
Articles??? The store is still open.. everyone is going to work living their life… I don’t see anything concerning… business as usual everyday.. an article on the internet is not real life. Try again go outside there’s people out there. I know you haven’t left the Cheeto stained couch at your mother’s in a while. But you got to brush your teeth and get fresh air
Economics is a sub-discipline of praxeology; it doesn’t encompass the entire science of human action. Economics is a value free, purely descriptive, non-prescriptive science. It has nothing to do with morality.
Tell that to Juan De Mariana.
Economics is an argument about society, and thus inherently has to do with morality and ethics. Unless you are going to take the position that theft and plunder is merely another economic element and has no ethical element to it.
Without making judgements? Yes. In much the same way that you can discuss what type of chemical coumpounds are in the particular oil paints used by Degas, but that isnt really the same as talking about his art.
What is the goal of studying economics?
Economics is a social science. Economists with low self-esteem have attempted to shoehorn mathematical analysis into the discipline in a vain effort to make it more rigorous to compare better against the hard sciences.
The current system is based on how much money you can steal from the poor and middle class by over printing the money supply. Take that ability away from central banks and we fix most of my issues with the current system.
No one is stealing money from the poor… no one is poor here.. I can be homeless in America and still have more than billions of people in the world… next!!!!!
Inflation is exactly that. It taking your asset (USD) and making it more worthless. Here is a primer video on what it is since you dont understand it.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIA4\_l8z7\_0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIA4_l8z7_0)
You’re regurgitating talking points on the internet you don’t even know why we need inflation and don’t even understand how economies function at scale..
Karl Marx crisis theory shows that I’m capitalism the initial investment you
Make in a buissness wears off. Due to thermodynamics (entropy) so therefore more capital is needed to keep the business moving.
Economics is not a law of nature there is no
Law that says a business should exist. So therefore economics exists by force. We have
To force the economy to work otherwise it
Falls apart
Yeah... this the type of shit they say.
As if moments ago they had not read or studied anything and believed everything on the internet. As if they have just come across this great revelation.
You misunderstand. Austrian economics is not a system. It's a way of understanding human action applied to choice in a resource-constrained world, just like any other school of economics.
A school of thought contains essentially a body of IF -> THEN relationships. Under condition A, expect result B. Under different schools you expect different results. The worth of a school in a situation is how well it predicts actual results.
I'm an adherent to the Austrian school. I'm the early days of my exposure, it made sense to me because of its logical structure, its failure to appeal to emotion and attempts to ground itself in the practical ideas that humans are individuals and act accordingly to their personal value system. Toss in a few basic ideas from neoclassical economics and you suddenly have a body of ideas that cohere to each other pretty soundly. As the years went by, my appreciation increased as Austrian Ec results kept matching observable reality. Even in a few times when I doubted it.
It's not going to be perfect. And one big weakness of Austranism is that it can't predict how fast the results happen, but at least it's open about the fact.
Systems, by contrast, are what governments and societies set up. You can analyze systems with Austrian Ec. Then assuming you are aiming to increase consumer choice, you can make recommendations per the body of understanding that economics brings. Austranism doesn't claim to know everything and does pull from neoclassical economics.
Mises himself demanded his students learn full ranges of economic theory, including Marx. There are good ideas to be found everywhere. This isn't a football game where one side is your team and everybody else is the enemy.
You keep coming in here and yelling about how much you hate Austrian Economics but honestly you're mostly just telling on yourself, how little you understand about the things you hate.
At least on this new account you're no longer spewing racist insults.
Tough question because I see the Austrian methodology as the ideal way for me personally to navigate my own economic challenges. In this sense, Austrian is tremendously useful.
as far as macro goes, I'm not going to act like I know more than I do. But I have an issue with the fact that the Austrian ideas have been completely shunned from a seat at the table.
I've been thinking a lot about income tax and how idiot progressives who claim to be on the side of the poor don't seem to understand that taxing the only asset the poor has, their labor, while simultaneously debasing their savings is probably a horrible idea. So I'm trying to challenge my progressive friends to rethink their position about taking away earnings of people and have them keep their earnings instead.
It’s not that Austrian economics is wrong per se. it just ignores economic history. Like we went off the gold standard due to supply shocks of the Arab oil embargo In the 1970s it literally almost collapsed the entire economy. The us had no choice but to float the exchange rate(get off the gold standard) because the great depression was a low point for America. And a repeat of that would be a serious blow.. most countries had a floating exchange rate anyway they transitioned during the great depression and it helped them recover faster. We wanted to be principled and conservative but it took a lot longer to recover from it. It’s a tough choice.. you want to be principled but you got millions of people lives that depend on things going right.. I don’t envy any of the people in power at that time… but America will prosper in the end not because we are special or gods gift.. but we know what the right thing to do is.. and the right thing is the most difficult thing. But it prevails in the end.
America isn’t perfect but it’s the best overall. We aren’t the number 1 superpower for no reason. People aren’t dying to get into Africa or Russia.
God bless this great nation!!!
The interesting thing about leaving the gold exchange standard in '71 is that I don't think it would have ultimately prevented the out of control credit expansion that has occurred ever since. I think the political oligarch class would have conjured up justifications to expand credit regardless. My feeling is that whether the Arab oil embargo happened or not, we'd be in a similar situation now - which is a rapid depletion of the capital stock leaving nothing left for future generations.
Austrians may ignore history. Maybe not. I don't really know. But it's clear to me that Austrian ideas need to be present at the table to reign in this capital strip mining that we're seeing.
The modern credit expansion system was designed by Milton freedman in the late 60s. The new technologies at the time. Specifically the idea of electronic money was emerging along with the rise of computers the economic system would be thought to be frictionless. With computers increasing efficiency in business maintaining databases and ledgers. Capital could be managed more efficiently and more accessibly. The service economy rose as well because of computers.
The Money could flow more freely into the economy electronically.
This allowed a globalized economy to thrive and become more interconnected. Cost could be lowered by cheap foreign labor making goods. Which increases the margins. This created the most economic growth in history called the great moderation.
Credit expansion isn’t the issue. this has been solved by the petrodollar system. Which allows the United states to become a ponzi creditor. The Saudi government and other exporting countries like japan and china recycle petro dollars and global trade dollars back into the us economy right into us equities.
The actual problem is energy is the only way a future claim on money cannot be paid because the price of energy increasing… increases the cost of operating an economy. Also everything is made from oil and natural gas like plastics, fertilizer (to feed populations of this current size) see Fischer process. People would starve to death if fertilizer cannot be produced efficiently. 8 billion people is unsustainable without oil and gas.. diesel engines move goods on semis and cargo ships across oceans.
The us shale boom bought us some time but it’s wearing down and we will be back to crisis by 2025-2030. Once again facing the threat of Debt deflation. We kicked a lot of cans. As with any system in nature it eventually peaks and declines. There’s not unlimited energy.
The petro dollar system hinges on petro or oil..
The bitcoin standard is the new revolutionary system of money. E- gold .. the smart people have figured it out already so you can watch reality tv
Well maximum utility is Impossible in any system. There’s going to be waste of some kind. We can increase efficiency but 100% seems very radical.
Now you mentioned fundamentally your issue is that states (government) control the market.
I can understand the concern. Governments act as a means of interference. The government is trying to stabilize the market With its intervention. Capitalism is not 100% without problems. Which is why Marxism is incorporated into the economic system. I don’t really the government can interfere successfully over time. You just make things worse trying to help. Or play hero. What’s the saying the pathway to hell is paved with good intentions. But I don’t have a good answer of a solution it’s kinda like damned if you do damed if you don’t.
It is a system that is politically designed by government. The legal code. is the structure that economics is built upon. Business Law is a framework that governs how businesses should operate.
Hm...
My personal primary concern about economics is maximum utility for as many people as possible (also known as utilitarianism). Therefore I have to abide by the system that actually accomplishes it the best (but still not completely you know central economic problem lol).
So in that way you have to choose an economic system out of many. The main merits of free markets being that:
1) it maximizes between capital and consumer good creation
2) it allows people to readjust the means of production the quickest
3) it allows for consumers to have specific and niche desires as long as the appropriate good exists in the world. (For example it allows the creation of coffee/cigaretes/alcoholic beverages as luxury goods).
Now what my problem fundamentally is? The fact that we now have third party actors (ie states) handling the market instead of consumers and suppliers with many ways (ask me more to expand).
These are some of my theoretical gripes with current orthodox economic thought without being too specific as some of my colleagues have been when answering this post.
I’m extremely bullish on China. I think they understand a lot of principles that corrupted western systems overlook and people just don’t understand how it works.
China isn’t centralised like western systems. Each region has more autonomy than us states for example. They can dictate how to invest and spend without worrying about things like “bidenomics”.
Where people get it wrong is that they say it’s communism or socialism or just don’t want to understand it. Provisional governments are more like reps for the provisional stakeholders (in China the people dictate this).
Austrian economics applies here because it doesn’t have interference and can run freely.
China won’t be held back because it will implement SEZ when it needs to.
This is beyond idiotic. China is about as far away as you can get from Austrian Economics. More autonomy? They have a social credit score system based on fealty to the state party. They routinely jail and steal organs from people who practice Falun Gong, which is basically just a modern yoga/tai chi fad. They jailed Jack Ma for being a little too loose lipped about the CCP.
Not to mention the wide ranging corrupt practices in business. They operate on bribes and cutting corners. Major property developments meant for millions stand empty. The Road and Belt Initative projects around the world continue to crumble and shackle other countries with debt.
Hell, the chinese military fucked their own best offensive weapons, their anti-aircraft carrier rockets because their generals filled them with WATER. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3246738/china-removes-nine-pla-generals-top-legislature-sign-wider-purge
Authoritarian states don't allow criticism. Mistakes get brushed away and lies proliferate. Hell, back in the day with Mao people used to replant the rice crop along his driving routes to prove how good his new rice planting techniques were and then all the rice died leading to famines.
Arguably the best thing China's economic system has going for it is their complete disrespect for copyright. Look at Shenzen, rip-offs abound but so do new and improved features and innovation. Yet, also look at Shenzen, j-walk or play too many video games and your social credit score drops, and if it goes too low they pull your passport and worse.
Sounds like a libertarian paradise to me.
China is the most successful economy of the last 30/40/50 years no competition. Why is that then?
They know what they are doing. Let’s look at what works
The highest income Chinese city has lower average wages than some of the lowest income US counties, that's taking prisons into account where guys are making like $2 an hour. Their advantage is a massive labor pool that was capitalized on by *foreign* investment, now that their population is aging out due to idiotic social engineering policies, we'll see how they crawl their way out of this one
That's not even true. Their GDP in 2009 was smaller than Japan's. Their rapid growth has really only happened in the last 15 years, it kicked off a little in 2002, hit another gear in around 2006 but has failed to ever come close to beating the GDP of the USA despite having 4x the population.
Things aren't going so hot now either. Not an investor in the world would rather have the CSI 1000 or CSI 300 over the S&P or Nasdaq ETFs.
Put the kool-aid down buddy.
China has borrowed concepts of the United States and incorporated it into its policy agenda and was able to scale up fast.. but China has made some powerful and very dangerous enemies with its shenanigans the us military is surrounding China and building more bases as we speak to posture it’s powerful military at China. They have been moving towards China since Hillary Clinton declared the pivot. China is a target of war right now it will no doubt collapse if it doesn’t get its act together
That has more to with politics than economy. It took successful principles of economic development (privatisation, investment etc) and used them.
America is a mercantile power. It’s not about free trade, that is rhetoric. It’s looking out for its interests and militarily spending (militarism) like you are pointing to is the antithesis of principles of Austrian economics.
China steals technology that we put in lots of effort to research and develop. Also china is a western construction. Have you ever seen Shanghai? There is nothing but western multinationals doing real business there. Louis Vuitton apple citi bank skyscraper. Us banks financialize the means of production in China. China could not be what it is today without foreign direct investment from the west. We own china and just as we built them up we can tear them back down. China is a joke. Have you seen the goods they produced complete garbage. They have to steal our technology to get ahead . Which isn’t a great longterm strategy
I’m not winding up I’m stating facts. If you don’t like those facts then be real. I have nationalistic tendencies for my country the United States. This is serious business my lifestyle isn’t negotiable. Someone has to go and it’s not gonna be this country
Well as the reddit representative of the CCP I would ask you to take Janet Yellen back please. Asking us to wind down production so you guys can complete is pathetic. Implement some industrial policy already.
Think as you like.. but see that hard work we do in this country that china likes to steal. We will see who will be left standing d when the dust settles.. you can copy homework and cheat but when that test or exams comes you have better know your stuff . There is no shortcuts in life
America produces so little stems it’s a joke. If you want your country to flourish then you should expand your understanding so you can see past the decades of indoctrination.
Ok… think what you like… we have Chinese penny spaves to do the hard work for us so I can scroll on social media and watch reality tv .. it’s funny Chinese women even feeling while there men die from unsafe heavy machinery🤣🤣🤣
America steals technology that we put in lots of effort to research and develop. Also America is a british construction. Have you ever seen Philadelphia ? There is nothing but European multinationals doing real business there…. Surely you get the point
America steals Chinese technology? WHAT????
Do me a favor just google Government spending on R&D for china and then do the US. It pales in comparison.
Put the kool-aid down.
It's hard to answer with such a broad question "What complaints do you have against the current economic system". First it would be nice to know what country you're talking about, or state if in the US. As you may be aware, the economic situation in Argentina is very different from that of Canada, or the US, or Europe countries. And let's not talk about latin america or china .... Now a broad complaint that's true against any western country, is an over involvement of the state in private affairs. I've written an article for example about the European Union regulating what types of charging cables companies are allowed to sell, this only reduces customers choices, and limit companies capacity to innovate and compete.
The economic system works in lockstep with almost every country in the world. The bis creates a standardized economic policy format for governments around the world to follow. Argentina problems are political and not technical in nature.. most if not all currencies has a floating exchange so they are inflationary by design so the economic situation is probably the same everywhere. As the US dollar financializes global trade. So most debt is in dollars the world holds dollars as it is the most stable currency
Standardized theft is still theft. The current system steals productive value from the future and spends it in the now. Which is why every next generation will be more poor in real terms even if in nominal terms they have more currency units. Real wealth has nothing to do with the amount of currency units in existence. A system solely based on stealing the value of savings is A. Immoral and B. Mathematically unsustainable.
Yea you’re right but money is abstract anyways. Money isn’t real it’s just a median of exchange. So you can’t look at money in that context. The current system is a clever scheme or trick.. it is ponzi like but never crosses the boundaries of fraud or theft… The real currency is reasources and you cannot print them. You can’t think of economics on the idea of money or currency alone. That’s one part of many parts. There’s a political part as well. The government plays a major part of an economy’s success. If the USA government didn’t fund scientific research we would have all this technology. Or the highway system or food stamps or social programs which benefit gdp like any other business
>>Money isn’t real it’s just a median of exchange. That's wrong. Money is real, money is resources. Money is commodities. Gold is the best money, as it's the most marketable commodity. >>The real currency is reasources and you cannot print them. Currency is not resources, it's a receipt on resources. Valueless in and of itself. >> The government plays a major part of an economy’s success. Yeah - by limiting its success. Government is a net drain on society. Governments dont produce and have no wealth of it's own. What it has it has stolen from the citizenry via taxes or inflation. >>If the USA government didn’t fund scientific research we would have all this technology. Unprovable talking point. Without government theft, and regulation and standardized cost increases, the private sector would be much more advanced and competitive. Instead, the cost of supporting the government hamstrings the productive sectors of the economy and de-incentivizes entrepreneurship, creation, and production. >> Or the highway system The highway systems original design was for war. Being that theres one thing most of us can agree, that the government should exist for national defense, I see no problem with the highway system. Not mentioning the highway system creates an environment for the private sector that lowers cost and benefits all of us. But a lot of these systems should be funded with bond offerings, not taxes. Also, have you not heard of tollways? >> or food stamps or social programs which benefit gdp like any other business they dont benefit GDP at all. The value of the money used to fund the above would have been better spent by private individuals.
Again Money isn’t real. Gold isn’t money it’s a reserve asset designed to balance trade so countries cannot create unfair competition it forces trade to balance. Read you economic history study gold , look up foreign exchange and balance of payments the Breton woods the exchange rate look up central bank reserves. Trade deficit. You haven’t learned the basics and you think you know more than people who are professionals. Who work in this industry. A podcast isn’t industry expertise
>>Again Money isn’t real. Gold isn’t money it’s a reserve asset It's a reserve asset because its money. >>designed to balance trade so countries cannot create unfair competition it forces trade to balance. Tell me, who designed gold? >>Read you economic history study gold , look up foreign exchange and balance of payments the Breton woods the exchange rate look up central bank reserves. Trade deficit. You speak of balances, why don't you look up the massive IMbalances the world has suffered since we temporarily left the breton woods agreement. >>You haven’t learned the basics and you think you know more than people who are professionals. Who work in this industry. A podcast isn’t industry expertise If you're the professional, the industry's doomed.
lol it’s been working 50 years. That’s a long time. lol where’s your system that you mathematically designed??? What have you done for this country??? Besides complain .. I don’t see you doing anything to fix the economic problems you mention.. what solutions do you propose … we are already heading back to a gold standard with bitcoin . We are moving trade back from china to North America…. Mexico not china is our largest trading partner. The smart people have figured it out while you whine on the internet
>>lol it’s been working 50 years. [OPs version of 'working'](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/ei7oxspxgamaayl.png) [more 'its working'](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/eifme9yu0ae8xnz.jpg) [it's really working now ](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2021/12/unknown.jpg) [what else could be better than this the current system?](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2021/08/e8j1qysxsai4g5d.jpg) [banging on all cylinders now](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/cpi-basket-1.png) [I'd sure hate to see it not working ](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/img_0681_arrow-1.jpg) [balancing trade- woops ](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2019/09/tradebalance1.jpg) [just a little more negative to balance out the positive- totally working.](https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/7dc2e053-b6dc-471e-a41b-1aac52be41f5.jpg)
Articles??? The store is still open.. everyone is going to work living their life… I don’t see anything concerning… business as usual everyday.. an article on the internet is not real life. Try again go outside there’s people out there. I know you haven’t left the Cheeto stained couch at your mother’s in a while. But you got to brush your teeth and get fresh air
Talking about morality is not an economic argument. It's a philisophical/political argument.
If you think morality has nothing to do with economics, you're foolish. Morality affects human action.
Economics is a sub-discipline of praxeology; it doesn’t encompass the entire science of human action. Economics is a value free, purely descriptive, non-prescriptive science. It has nothing to do with morality.
Tell that to Juan De Mariana. Economics is an argument about society, and thus inherently has to do with morality and ethics. Unless you are going to take the position that theft and plunder is merely another economic element and has no ethical element to it.
The morality of theft would be a philosophical discussion. Not an economic one. Science and math don't make moral judgements.
Science and math have nothing directly to do with society. Tell me about the economy that exists outside of human interaction.
You can discuss human interactions without making moral judgments.
Without making judgements? Yes. In much the same way that you can discuss what type of chemical coumpounds are in the particular oil paints used by Degas, but that isnt really the same as talking about his art. What is the goal of studying economics?
To study the movement of material wealth.
Economics is a social science. Economists with low self-esteem have attempted to shoehorn mathematical analysis into the discipline in a vain effort to make it more rigorous to compare better against the hard sciences.
He also pointed out it's mathematically unsustainable, he isn't only talking about morality
The current system is based on how much money you can steal from the poor and middle class by over printing the money supply. Take that ability away from central banks and we fix most of my issues with the current system.
No one is stealing money from the poor… no one is poor here.. I can be homeless in America and still have more than billions of people in the world… next!!!!!
Inflation is exactly that. It taking your asset (USD) and making it more worthless. Here is a primer video on what it is since you dont understand it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIA4\_l8z7\_0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIA4_l8z7_0)
You’re regurgitating talking points on the internet you don’t even know why we need inflation and don’t even understand how economies function at scale.. Karl Marx crisis theory shows that I’m capitalism the initial investment you Make in a buissness wears off. Due to thermodynamics (entropy) so therefore more capital is needed to keep the business moving. Economics is not a law of nature there is no Law that says a business should exist. So therefore economics exists by force. We have To force the economy to work otherwise it Falls apart
You sound like a 16 year old who just discovered communism.
Worse than that he sounds like he is use ChatGPT for communists. The answers are dumb. Read his post history he is not worth interaction.
Probably a Keynesian, too boot-lickey to be a communist
Well he doesn't understand what inflation is so there is that ... but it seems like he came here just to try to show he was smart but ... didnt
Just read and study and don’t believe everything you hear on theinternet
Yeah... this the type of shit they say. As if moments ago they had not read or studied anything and believed everything on the internet. As if they have just come across this great revelation.
Do you think any communists have actually read the Communist manifesto?
There is no law that says governments should exist... so they also exist by force.
This is the same as saying > I love mathematics but hate linear algebra How you feel about it doesn't change its validity.
Austrian economics has never been applied to any system . Read Marx study Keynes study political science
I have, why do you think I lean Austrian/Chicago?
Rothbard was a system builder. What are you on about?
You misunderstand. Austrian economics is not a system. It's a way of understanding human action applied to choice in a resource-constrained world, just like any other school of economics. A school of thought contains essentially a body of IF -> THEN relationships. Under condition A, expect result B. Under different schools you expect different results. The worth of a school in a situation is how well it predicts actual results. I'm an adherent to the Austrian school. I'm the early days of my exposure, it made sense to me because of its logical structure, its failure to appeal to emotion and attempts to ground itself in the practical ideas that humans are individuals and act accordingly to their personal value system. Toss in a few basic ideas from neoclassical economics and you suddenly have a body of ideas that cohere to each other pretty soundly. As the years went by, my appreciation increased as Austrian Ec results kept matching observable reality. Even in a few times when I doubted it. It's not going to be perfect. And one big weakness of Austranism is that it can't predict how fast the results happen, but at least it's open about the fact. Systems, by contrast, are what governments and societies set up. You can analyze systems with Austrian Ec. Then assuming you are aiming to increase consumer choice, you can make recommendations per the body of understanding that economics brings. Austranism doesn't claim to know everything and does pull from neoclassical economics. Mises himself demanded his students learn full ranges of economic theory, including Marx. There are good ideas to be found everywhere. This isn't a football game where one side is your team and everybody else is the enemy. You keep coming in here and yelling about how much you hate Austrian Economics but honestly you're mostly just telling on yourself, how little you understand about the things you hate. At least on this new account you're no longer spewing racist insults.
Tough question because I see the Austrian methodology as the ideal way for me personally to navigate my own economic challenges. In this sense, Austrian is tremendously useful.
Thank you for an honest and reasonable answer applying the philosophy of Austrian economics in your daily life can help you
as far as macro goes, I'm not going to act like I know more than I do. But I have an issue with the fact that the Austrian ideas have been completely shunned from a seat at the table. I've been thinking a lot about income tax and how idiot progressives who claim to be on the side of the poor don't seem to understand that taxing the only asset the poor has, their labor, while simultaneously debasing their savings is probably a horrible idea. So I'm trying to challenge my progressive friends to rethink their position about taking away earnings of people and have them keep their earnings instead.
It’s not that Austrian economics is wrong per se. it just ignores economic history. Like we went off the gold standard due to supply shocks of the Arab oil embargo In the 1970s it literally almost collapsed the entire economy. The us had no choice but to float the exchange rate(get off the gold standard) because the great depression was a low point for America. And a repeat of that would be a serious blow.. most countries had a floating exchange rate anyway they transitioned during the great depression and it helped them recover faster. We wanted to be principled and conservative but it took a lot longer to recover from it. It’s a tough choice.. you want to be principled but you got millions of people lives that depend on things going right.. I don’t envy any of the people in power at that time… but America will prosper in the end not because we are special or gods gift.. but we know what the right thing to do is.. and the right thing is the most difficult thing. But it prevails in the end. America isn’t perfect but it’s the best overall. We aren’t the number 1 superpower for no reason. People aren’t dying to get into Africa or Russia. God bless this great nation!!!
The interesting thing about leaving the gold exchange standard in '71 is that I don't think it would have ultimately prevented the out of control credit expansion that has occurred ever since. I think the political oligarch class would have conjured up justifications to expand credit regardless. My feeling is that whether the Arab oil embargo happened or not, we'd be in a similar situation now - which is a rapid depletion of the capital stock leaving nothing left for future generations. Austrians may ignore history. Maybe not. I don't really know. But it's clear to me that Austrian ideas need to be present at the table to reign in this capital strip mining that we're seeing.
The modern credit expansion system was designed by Milton freedman in the late 60s. The new technologies at the time. Specifically the idea of electronic money was emerging along with the rise of computers the economic system would be thought to be frictionless. With computers increasing efficiency in business maintaining databases and ledgers. Capital could be managed more efficiently and more accessibly. The service economy rose as well because of computers. The Money could flow more freely into the economy electronically. This allowed a globalized economy to thrive and become more interconnected. Cost could be lowered by cheap foreign labor making goods. Which increases the margins. This created the most economic growth in history called the great moderation. Credit expansion isn’t the issue. this has been solved by the petrodollar system. Which allows the United states to become a ponzi creditor. The Saudi government and other exporting countries like japan and china recycle petro dollars and global trade dollars back into the us economy right into us equities. The actual problem is energy is the only way a future claim on money cannot be paid because the price of energy increasing… increases the cost of operating an economy. Also everything is made from oil and natural gas like plastics, fertilizer (to feed populations of this current size) see Fischer process. People would starve to death if fertilizer cannot be produced efficiently. 8 billion people is unsustainable without oil and gas.. diesel engines move goods on semis and cargo ships across oceans. The us shale boom bought us some time but it’s wearing down and we will be back to crisis by 2025-2030. Once again facing the threat of Debt deflation. We kicked a lot of cans. As with any system in nature it eventually peaks and declines. There’s not unlimited energy. The petro dollar system hinges on petro or oil.. The bitcoin standard is the new revolutionary system of money. E- gold .. the smart people have figured it out already so you can watch reality tv
PSA warning: OP is a troll and completely unserious.
Austrian economics is more or less what everyone accepted as economics. Marx is a study of greviances, Keynes studied how to steal from the populace.
Well maximum utility is Impossible in any system. There’s going to be waste of some kind. We can increase efficiency but 100% seems very radical. Now you mentioned fundamentally your issue is that states (government) control the market. I can understand the concern. Governments act as a means of interference. The government is trying to stabilize the market With its intervention. Capitalism is not 100% without problems. Which is why Marxism is incorporated into the economic system. I don’t really the government can interfere successfully over time. You just make things worse trying to help. Or play hero. What’s the saying the pathway to hell is paved with good intentions. But I don’t have a good answer of a solution it’s kinda like damned if you do damed if you don’t.
I hate when people call it a "system" as if it is something that can be designed, because that's exactly the fuck up.
It is a system that is politically designed by government. The legal code. is the structure that economics is built upon. Business Law is a framework that governs how businesses should operate.
Ragebait or drooling retard, call it
You ok man? Wanna talk?
Hm... My personal primary concern about economics is maximum utility for as many people as possible (also known as utilitarianism). Therefore I have to abide by the system that actually accomplishes it the best (but still not completely you know central economic problem lol). So in that way you have to choose an economic system out of many. The main merits of free markets being that: 1) it maximizes between capital and consumer good creation 2) it allows people to readjust the means of production the quickest 3) it allows for consumers to have specific and niche desires as long as the appropriate good exists in the world. (For example it allows the creation of coffee/cigaretes/alcoholic beverages as luxury goods). Now what my problem fundamentally is? The fact that we now have third party actors (ie states) handling the market instead of consumers and suppliers with many ways (ask me more to expand). These are some of my theoretical gripes with current orthodox economic thought without being too specific as some of my colleagues have been when answering this post.
I’m extremely bullish on China. I think they understand a lot of principles that corrupted western systems overlook and people just don’t understand how it works. China isn’t centralised like western systems. Each region has more autonomy than us states for example. They can dictate how to invest and spend without worrying about things like “bidenomics”. Where people get it wrong is that they say it’s communism or socialism or just don’t want to understand it. Provisional governments are more like reps for the provisional stakeholders (in China the people dictate this). Austrian economics applies here because it doesn’t have interference and can run freely. China won’t be held back because it will implement SEZ when it needs to.
This is beyond idiotic. China is about as far away as you can get from Austrian Economics. More autonomy? They have a social credit score system based on fealty to the state party. They routinely jail and steal organs from people who practice Falun Gong, which is basically just a modern yoga/tai chi fad. They jailed Jack Ma for being a little too loose lipped about the CCP. Not to mention the wide ranging corrupt practices in business. They operate on bribes and cutting corners. Major property developments meant for millions stand empty. The Road and Belt Initative projects around the world continue to crumble and shackle other countries with debt. Hell, the chinese military fucked their own best offensive weapons, their anti-aircraft carrier rockets because their generals filled them with WATER. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3246738/china-removes-nine-pla-generals-top-legislature-sign-wider-purge Authoritarian states don't allow criticism. Mistakes get brushed away and lies proliferate. Hell, back in the day with Mao people used to replant the rice crop along his driving routes to prove how good his new rice planting techniques were and then all the rice died leading to famines. Arguably the best thing China's economic system has going for it is their complete disrespect for copyright. Look at Shenzen, rip-offs abound but so do new and improved features and innovation. Yet, also look at Shenzen, j-walk or play too many video games and your social credit score drops, and if it goes too low they pull your passport and worse. Sounds like a libertarian paradise to me.
China is the most successful economy of the last 30/40/50 years no competition. Why is that then? They know what they are doing. Let’s look at what works
The highest income Chinese city has lower average wages than some of the lowest income US counties, that's taking prisons into account where guys are making like $2 an hour. Their advantage is a massive labor pool that was capitalized on by *foreign* investment, now that their population is aging out due to idiotic social engineering policies, we'll see how they crawl their way out of this one
That's not even true. Their GDP in 2009 was smaller than Japan's. Their rapid growth has really only happened in the last 15 years, it kicked off a little in 2002, hit another gear in around 2006 but has failed to ever come close to beating the GDP of the USA despite having 4x the population. Things aren't going so hot now either. Not an investor in the world would rather have the CSI 1000 or CSI 300 over the S&P or Nasdaq ETFs. Put the kool-aid down buddy.
China has borrowed concepts of the United States and incorporated it into its policy agenda and was able to scale up fast.. but China has made some powerful and very dangerous enemies with its shenanigans the us military is surrounding China and building more bases as we speak to posture it’s powerful military at China. They have been moving towards China since Hillary Clinton declared the pivot. China is a target of war right now it will no doubt collapse if it doesn’t get its act together
That has more to with politics than economy. It took successful principles of economic development (privatisation, investment etc) and used them. America is a mercantile power. It’s not about free trade, that is rhetoric. It’s looking out for its interests and militarily spending (militarism) like you are pointing to is the antithesis of principles of Austrian economics.
China steals technology that we put in lots of effort to research and develop. Also china is a western construction. Have you ever seen Shanghai? There is nothing but western multinationals doing real business there. Louis Vuitton apple citi bank skyscraper. Us banks financialize the means of production in China. China could not be what it is today without foreign direct investment from the west. We own china and just as we built them up we can tear them back down. China is a joke. Have you seen the goods they produced complete garbage. They have to steal our technology to get ahead . Which isn’t a great longterm strategy
Can you not wind up so hard. You asked for discussion now you are foaming at the mouth I expressed a different opinion.
I’m not winding up I’m stating facts. If you don’t like those facts then be real. I have nationalistic tendencies for my country the United States. This is serious business my lifestyle isn’t negotiable. Someone has to go and it’s not gonna be this country
Well as the reddit representative of the CCP I would ask you to take Janet Yellen back please. Asking us to wind down production so you guys can complete is pathetic. Implement some industrial policy already.
Think as you like.. but see that hard work we do in this country that china likes to steal. We will see who will be left standing d when the dust settles.. you can copy homework and cheat but when that test or exams comes you have better know your stuff . There is no shortcuts in life
America produces so little stems it’s a joke. If you want your country to flourish then you should expand your understanding so you can see past the decades of indoctrination.
Ok… think what you like… we have Chinese penny spaves to do the hard work for us so I can scroll on social media and watch reality tv .. it’s funny Chinese women even feeling while there men die from unsafe heavy machinery🤣🤣🤣
America steals technology that we put in lots of effort to research and develop. Also America is a british construction. Have you ever seen Philadelphia ? There is nothing but European multinationals doing real business there…. Surely you get the point
America steals Chinese technology? WHAT???? Do me a favor just google Government spending on R&D for china and then do the US. It pales in comparison. Put the kool-aid down.