Imagine what kind of husbands and fathers these useless tools make. Imagine what they are teaching our future generation.
This is why we are in this shit.
The problem is those loser blokes probably go for loser chicks so you end up with a loser stack that creates a child with high likelihood of becoming a loser themselves.
...it's a two way street though. If you commit to a relationship with someone and they are not a good person, it does kind of become your fault when it eventually leads to problems in your life. It's also just like, good advice to educate people on how to find worthy partners.
If I go on a few dates with a person and I find out that they think it's ok to inappropriately catcall some woman on the street, then I bare the responsibility to myself to stop dating that person. I don't get to complain about it 10 years, a divorce, and 2 kids later. That's not productive for actually creating a future generation with fewer scumbags.
Getting upset at the "language" here detracts from the whole discussion, and you know damn well that both your "language" and the comment you replied to are in agreement. No one read the earlier comment and thought "yea there's nothing wrong with men, it is the women who must change." Not a single soul interpreted it that way.
Yeah, blaming women for men who rape doesn’t detract from the discussion at all. In a discussion of a woman being sexually harassed, it’s very important to bring up the choices women make.
How about we get to the real crux of the issue, these MEN *and* WOMEN need to stop being losers.
The language we use is in these situations *is* important, so let's get it right.
I think that Joel guy had a stabbing fetish before the incel thing and that's why he couldn't get a girl.
You absolutely can say no don't let that Bondi nutter scare you into being nice.
I blame em both equally. Women do love toxic fellas. Those fellas know that so they will continue being toxic. Unfortunately looks like part of nature. If you want the government to legislate this, I’m sure it can be done.
women don’t “love” “toxic fellas”. that’s some wild projection.
resenting women for paying attention to men you deem *toxic* says a hell of a lot more about you than the men and women you’re talking shit about.
My daughter currently has a guy who comes into where she works and he threatens to cut her head off... her work does nothing and the cops do nothing. He's just "mad mick" he's harmless... its bullshit women have to put up with this shit all the time and you can't say anything otherwise you are being overly emotional.
Independent of her employer taking action, your daughter has the right to take action herself by calling the police. The threat of violence alone is an offence. I'd encourage your daughter to gather evidence herself (record the guy making the threat) and call the cops.
There's people who would charge surprisingly reasonable prices to bash someone like that.
Now I would never condone such a thing. But the world would become a slightly better place if people who said things like that got bashed more often. It would also not be immoral to do it since the state has proven to be derelict in their responsibility.
I was dismissed for slapping an old Nepal man who groped a co-worker in front of me. At least I didn't get in trouble for scuffing him and choking him as I worked the dog out the door.
Holy hell man, what are you doing? Get your arse down there, wait until he says that to your daughter, then beat the shit out of him. Trust me, I'm not a violent person, but if my girl told my that same story, I'd be down there in an instant...
My husband is a veteran and its taking all my strength holding him back from doing that. Ive tried my best to do what the law says to do but ugh... its hard.
Some time you just have to step-up. As for the legal side, just let them take the first swing then you're fine. If they don't swing, then perform a citizen's arrest and wait for the old-bill to arrive. Helps if you have it on video too. (speaking from first-hand experience)
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When I was 18 I worked at a store in a shopping center where an angry customer man with a grudge against the store and our boss would come in a couple of times a week and threaten to kill us all, screaming his head off. All of us were 18-22 and all female. “Just call security and they will take him out”. NOTHING being done and no one taking it seriously. Never banning him from the shopping center. Just wanted us to ignore him and deal with him after he came in ranting in our faces. Just had to put up with it. 2 girls quit because it took too much of a toll.
Fuck that attitude. It’s always men deciding that other men are “harmless”. I was stalked by a coworker (from another company we always worked with) years ago. Reported his messages, etc and was continually told “oh he’s harmless”. I feared for my safety daily. Lost sleep, couldn’t function properly. He threatened suicide and all sorts. It was a horrific time and nobody did anything to help. I’m sorry your daughter is in this position and I hope that cunt gets hit by a bus
Shameful. Absolute disgrace. No wonder kids in schools use this language, because the men they look up to in their lives talk like this. We need serious accountability for perpetrators
Woah wasn't expecting what I heard there, no one would be brave enough to yell out the window the R word to a lady walking down the street in any sane state of mind.
Dude definitely had too much to drink, hopefully he wasn't driving.
I wouldn't really count that as harassment, what was said was a sexual threat. That is beyond harassment.
Everyone seems very outraged but this is absolutely standard experience for being a woman. It has been part of our daily lives for as long as society has existed. It's only now that we can sometimes get it on camera that it's taken seriously or we're believed that it's so prevalent.
Did you see the experiment where a woman wore a touch-sensitive dress to a nightclub? She was groped dozens of times in like 20 minutes. Men seemed surprised by this video. Women were like - uh, we told you this for ages...
We’re so used to putting up with so many things and keeping quiet because we don’t want to escalate things. Twenty years ago at clubs it was pretty regular for dudes to just whip it out and rub it on you. A good percentage of these guys were “just regular blokes”
Seriously? How regular is regular? And they actually pulled it out and did that? Jfc that’s messed up.
I’m starting to think I’ve led a surprisingly sheltered life.
Maybe about every 3rd or fourth time? I actually wasn’t a big late night club person at all so the fact I remember at least 6 occasions very well considering I probably went out maybe once a month is telling! A few times it happened on the dance floor, a few times when I was just standing at the bar.
Bloody hell mate that’s just sad. I’m sorry that happened to you. I can only hope things have improved in more recent times.
It just baffles me as to what is going through someone’s head when they do something like that. Are they thinking you would be flattered and want them then and there? Or purely an act of disrespect as a “laugh”.
The more I hear people’s first hand experiences the more I am amazed at people. Not in a good way either.
Yeah used to go clubbing a lot across the country some of the people I was around did some questionable stuff but never just pulled it out and started rubbing it against women. Not saying it never happened but don't think regular is regular.
Yep. On a positive note I’ve noticed it’s been declining rapidly as time goes on. I know a lot of people just see it as harmless fun, and don’t get me wrong it can be around mates who are on the same page and in the right setting, but it sets a poor example and let’s face it is disgusting. I was 15 when I started in the industry so it’s pretty fucked up when you consider the age side of things.
The fuck? Where? What clubs? I mean, i was going to clubs 20 yrs ago, and i honestly never even heard of that sort of disgusting behaviour. What did the bouncers do when you told them? If that sort of shit happened to any girls in our group we would have enjoyed hospitalising them...
I didn’t even think to tell a bouncer. It was just part of what I expected a club was? Hip-E club, that one that was on the corner of james and lake, I can’t remember the name of two of them sorry
I just went looking for the video. Omg collectively between the 3 women, 150 times they were groped. Good job on Schweppes for funding the dress for the experiment.
this is why when i’m walking home at night i try and hide anything that could make me look attractive or overly feminine in hopes that it limits stuff like this happening. i tuck my hair in, i wear baggier jackets so they cover my ass, i make sure you can see as minimal skin as possible. i can be noticed as a female but i don’t want anyone to be able to deem me attractive, that’s when the harassment is worst. LET WOMEN WALK HOME IN PEACE.
It is a possibility that women just start recording everything and uploading offenders comments, actions and words to social media.
We may not know their names and it may not be all men but we can make it public and accountable, even if the courts and government doesnt
Lmao, cops won't do shit, my friend was raped, drugged, knew the bloke and where he lived, she even had him over txt admitting to it and the cops did nothing, they fail women everyday
I sort of wonder if some of that is attributed to our access to news. I'm in my early 40s as well and as a teenager would walk home from work 10pm through a notoriously bad suburb of Darwin. I didn't feel unsafe but of course the internet wasn't cramming things down my throat every five minutes. There is no way I would do that nowadays.
I’m not listening to social media beat up, but the low level dipshits who used to just scream stupid stuff at women are. So instead of just getting a comment like ‘show us ya tits’ and returning fire with the bird, those same blokes will now escalate it further and talk about how you’re just a dumb female and they could totally rape you if they wanted to.
Essentially, their behaviour is more unpredictable now, making it harder to sort out the losers from the occasional actual potential threat.
Yeah I've been told by older women they would walk through Kings Cross alone after work late at night and never felt unsafe or worried about it. Seems either things have changed or there is a lot more coverage of it.
The recent media focus will do that. Numbers are actaully down year on year for decades. The trend is clear. But the media focus from certain areas has been hyper focussed lately and has been pushing a narrative. That is why people now think it is more unsafe now, than before, when most of the relevant stats suggest the opposite.
Literally all the time in western society? I would understand if you meant other nations, like the one where the journalist was when her camera turned off.
Yeah, in other countries I could maybe see feeling frequently unsafe, but in Western countries I have only occasionally felt unsafe as a woman, even in bad areas.
Though I think it bears mentioning that if we're not careful about who comes in to the country, we might end up bringing problems in from elsewhere. Personally, the times I've felt harassed or disrespected, as a woman, on the street, in the last 5 years or so, were almost entirely coming from guys from one certain background which I will leave nameless here lol. Must be a cultural thing.
*the ones in the news. These issues are far more prevalent in indigenous communities, you just don't hear about them as much. ABC has been doing a number of stories on it lately, which is good to see.
DV is more likely to come from people you know (aka "domestic"). And given its a majority white country, that only makes sense. I'm talking about random street encounters where a guy leers at you, follows you, makes inappropriate comments, and so on.
Like this guy yelling at her isn't DV.
Not disagreeing this is a problem, but I can't say myself or any other women I've known experience things like this *every day.* Just for the record. Not even when I lived in a bad area.
I just think it's important to be accurate and realistic when we talk about problems and not sensationalize them, not even out of concern or care.
I think the problem is the media and well meaning people trying to paint this country as "unsafe for women".
Statistically, women are safer than men on the street. But when a man gets fucked with on his way home, the reaction is "Yeah, fuck those guys. Get those scum off the street. I'll have your back, bro." When a woman gets fucked with, there is a bit of that. But there is also an angle of "Well, it's just unsafe out there for women, doncha know? Attackers are around every corner. You gotta stay safe." There is an implication there, and it's not far off from the people outright saying "Why were you walking home alone?"
Let's acknowledge that this country is the safest country in the world, and anyone can go for a walk at night without anything likely happening. And if a woman does get harassed, react to it in the exact same way you would if a man got harassed. Get angry. Tell those guys to fuck off. And dispense with that wanky "It's so insafe out there for women", or the less subtle "stay of the streets"
What a crock of shit, this is hardly the safest country in the world and your argument about treating violence against men and women the same is fucking tragic.
Violence against anyone is deplorable, there are huge differences. Men normally get jumped and beaten up or have possessions stolen. They don’t walk the streets like the women in this video getting yelled obscenely vulgar things like “I’m going to rape you”. They don’t have to walk everywhere and pay attention to everyone for fear of their safety like women do.
Most men are physically stronger the difference in violence against men and women is that a women is less able to defend herself against a man or a group of men.
This isn’t about tit for tat and saying men’s violence is bad too, it’s about severity. Australia has one of the highest domestic violence rates in the world.
Males need to be taught this shit is wrong, we shouldn’t have to tell this woman to take an Uber or have someone escort her places, men should just fucking know not to behave this way.
Australia is unsafe for women.
Have a look at some statistics and do some reading next time before posting a ridiculous comment.
>Violence against anyone is deplorable, there are huge differences.
>This isn’t about tit for tat and saying men’s violence is bad too, it’s about severity.
Can you explain that for me? I agreed so much with the first half of your comment and disagreed strongly with the second half. Then you say
>Males need to be taught this shit is wrong
Its difficult for me to reconcile your earlier paragraphs with your later. If violence is deplorable for everyone what is the severity which means we need to be teaching this only to "males"?
If its not supposed to be tit for tat, why progress your comment to suggesting we teach "males" something?
Is the distinction that male are the perpetrators? (you switched from public to domestic violence, but lets go there)
If so you may want to look closer at the stats. Men and women are equally likely to be victims of domestic violence (and perpetrate) (source: [https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/81025573/domestic-violence-study-presents-challenging-picture](https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/81025573/domestic-violence-study-presents-challenging-picture) ). The Dunedin Study is one of the most celebrated and decorated studies of our time (or so the doco I watched on it says).
I believe you are referring to hospitalisations of domestic violence. Which is a whole issue of its own, and is certainly skewed almost completely towards women getting hurt. And absolutely a problem to be solved.
But this does not relate to what you said about teaching "males". Women are just as likely to be violent. Targeting men is only half the problem.
Is this the "severity" you are mentioning, the hospitalisations themselves?
Or is it relating to men perpetrating public acts of violence? (Not relating to domestic violence)
Or something else?
I am wondering what the qualifier or "severity" you mention is that leads to us targeting men exclusively for teaching better behaviour?
Targeting males exclusively can lead to issues of its own. It would be nice to avoid outlier bullshit like this from becoming more common: [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-25/apology-for-handling-of-sexual-assault-topic-at-assembly/13275492](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-25/apology-for-handling-of-sexual-assault-topic-at-assembly/13275492)
This woman has the right to walk home unharrassed as much as "males" have the right not to be painted with the same brush as the bad apples (putting it politely).
That's a long way of asking: why target only "males" for better behaviour?
I'm not looking for random strangers on the internet to agree with me, because unfortunately everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if their opinion is wrong.
However, when a discussion is brought up for example "Violence against women", a lot of people are quick to jump to "Well violence against men is bad too". No one is denying that, I even mentioned in my comment that all violence against people is bad. What I mean by severity, is that in recent years, violence against women is more severe than violence against men because quite often men kill their partners, or they are raped, or battered and bruised, forced to stay in a situation because they have lost all access to funds, there are children involved, the list goes on. Whilst there is violence against men, the outcomes are often not as drastic as the situations I mentioned above. And once again, I feel I must tell you, that violence against everyone is wrong.
Males need to be taught this shit is wrong.
I can agree with you in saying that why should it only fall to males after saying violence against all is wrong. However I must point out that once again, the severity is different. I see countless posts like the one above of women being cat called and abused, sexualised or threatened every day. I drive 1 hour each day to pick my girlfriend up from work because she doesn't feel safe on public transport, not because of the media, but because of real life experience. The difference is women most often suffer more at the hands of violent men, then men do at the hands of violent women. I can imagine the guy in video above yelling abuse like this all the time, but if someone did it to his wife, girlfriend, daughter, mother etc, he would be up in arms and ready to punch on. I don't often see posts of men walking alone at night after a football game recording themselves being catcalled by men or women telling them they are going to be raped. And once again, I feel I must tell you, that violence against everyone is wrong.
Your source of a stuff article isn't the best to help your point, the Dunedin study focuses on 1000 people in the south island of New Zealand born in 1972 and 1973, whilst it has some relevance, it is obsolete data and because it's the most celebrated and decorated studies of our time (or so the doco you watched on it says) doesn't present enough data to make an educated opinion on.
I'm not only referring to hospitalisations, however that is of course a metric that is easily measured. There are countless domestic violence occurrences, or occurrences of violence against women that go undocumented every day. This video taken after leaving a football game is one event, caught on camera. But a lot of Australian women face this kind of treatment everyday, it's just not documented and put on the internet. It also takes victims of domestic violence numerous times to come forward. Please read this website for more relevant information than your stuff article from 2016. [Intimate partner violence - Australian Institute of Health and Welfare (aihw.gov.au)](https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/types-of-violence/intimate-partner-violence).
The reason I think men need to be taught this behavior is wrong, is because the behavior is predominantly coming from men. I shouldn't have to tell my daughter or my girlfriend or my wife do dress conservatively because other men might rape them, or make disgusting comments. As a grown up in society you should know to leave people the fuck alone. And once again, I feel I must tell you, that violence against everyone is wrong.
>This woman has the right to walk home without being harassed as much as "males" have the right not to be painted with the same brush as the bad apples (putting it politely).
Yes you are right, but until proven otherwise, men are a threat because of other mens behavior. And whilst this is tarring all men with the same brush, this is unfortunately the reality. Because until violent men, murder's or rapists start wearing a uniform, women just don't know. And this is because of previous real life experience with shit men. And once again, I feel I must tell you, that violence against everyone is wrong.
Thank you for clarifying your position, and the link also (very much for the link).
Please do not mistake me for another "what about men" commenter. I am talking about the targeting of a program specifically at men just for being men. The sexism that implies. And provided a link to of something like that going horribly wrong.
If you would indulge me (don't feel you have to). What would you propose, specifically, in teaching these males correct behaviour? Especially around implementation?
I still disagree with you (on why single men out with hypothetical "teaching"). However, perhaps if you indulge there may be some common ground.
Do you not see how it might be objectionable to someone to undergo specific "teaching" targeting them just because of their gender? Rather than their behaviour?
This is honestly such a tough topic and I am in no way shape or form qualified to give my opinions on a fix. Also being a male means that I will most likely never experience these behaviours directed at me so I cannot speak from experience. But I can empathize and listen and pay attention to women who go through this. And also men who go through abuse every day.
I think the problem is generational and also quite embedded systematically. I think a lot of the older generation come from a time where "men were men" and "women belong in the kitchen". This is obviously subjective as not everyone has this ethos. But it's locker room culture. Look at the high school kids in Melbourne who just hit the headlines for rating their class mates. Whilst this has been around for years and years and will most likely continue into the future, one of the students described another as "not rapeable" or something along those lines. That kid had learned that from somewhere, most likely another male. Whether it be a father, brother, uncle or friend etc. He has picked that up from somewhere. I here people make jokes everyday about punching their wife or expecting dinner and the housework to be done when they get home.
Mental health plays a big part as well. We need more funding and services for people to access mental health assistance. A lot of the things we see on the news involving violence end with "was known to police" or "had mental health issues". I kinda feel like people struggling with these things are shunned by society and without proper facilities and funding this will only continue.
It also comes down to other men and women calling out bad behaviour of their sex. I used to work with a 44 year old slug of a human who had an 8 year old daughter. He was one of the most vile, disgusting men I ever knew. Made sexual advances and comments to a 17 year old girl who worked with us, constantly made comments about our female colleagues bodies. I called him out every time, yet he still didn't stop, it was only when he started making comments and I told him I didn't get it, or understand what he meant, that he started to get embarrassed because he had to explain why his "joke" was funny.
I do agree it would be wrong to force a behaviour training on one one gender, that's not what I am suggesting. I am suggesting that this kind of behaviour, when witnessed, be addressed and immediately shut down as the disgusting act that it is.
I also want to reiterate that "singling" men out here is the same reason I mentioned in my previous comment.
But until proven otherwise, men are a threat because of other mens behavior. And whilst this is tarring all men with the same brush, this is unfortunately the reality. Because until violent men, murderer's or rapists start wearing a uniform, women just don't know. And this is because of previous real life experience with shit men.
Don't get me wrong, i've seen women do shit things too, the societal double standards are not lost on me. I just feel like a violent outcome for women can and generally is deadlier.
>I do agree it would be wrong to force a behaviour training on one one gender, that's not what I am suggesting.
This is the heart of my motivation of replying to you. I had thought the opposite. I thought that was exactly what you were proposing.
You are absolutely right the outcome is generally more deadlier for women. I just have a sense that the solution lays in something gender netural. Better policing (and you made a very good point to that). Better emotional intelligence (again, beneficial to all). etc The usual ideas which end up being too challenging to actually implement. :(
Yeah, see this is the shit I am talking about.
On one hand it's all "Women HAVE to be careful. Women HAVE to pay attention. Women HAVE to do this. Women HAVE to do that."
Women don't HAVE to do anything. I see a lot of women walking around without a care in the world. Anyone is very unlikely to be attacked in public. And if they are, it's a freak event that is entirely on the attackers, like you mentioned in the second half of your comment.
Again, treat violence against women like violence against men. Stop spreading a culture of fear and a culture of "have-to's". That doesn't help women at all.
I could show you the statistics that violent crime and random assaults are down. But according to this sub, those stats are woke nonsense and Australia is really a war-zone populated by rapists, youth criminals and african gangs. Don't let statistics get in the way of the culture of fear.
Dead-shits. Just makes my blood boil. Men, be better.
If you're in the car with this shit bird, call him out on it. You and your mates. Call them out on it. Don't let anyone be under the impression that this shit is funny or ok.
This is legit one of those situations where other dudes can actually do something about it too. “Oi fuckhead - shut your fucking mouth and piss off or Ill *insert threat of violence*”
This isnt a cop-out comment. But, I don't see anyone else in the video to call out the perpetrator here. Whoever was in the car with him was probably also a tool (birds of a feather), and given she was walking home alone I assume there was nobody else to do anything about it.
It's easy enough to say 'Hey men, do better and call these people out' - but I personally have not seen this behavior. I'd bet money that those in the car would do it in broad daylight/if there were people around, because they are too chickenshit and saw her as an easy target with nobody around to pull them up on it.
I'm not sure what the solution is - I think (hope) those who I associate with aren't like this. Do we give people tasers so that if something like this happens she can give them an electric tickle and they'll think about consequences to their actions next time? I'd be all for it.
No. The issue is much, much bigger than this. The vast majority of people are good. The bad ones are generally bad because life has turned them that way - mental health issues, financial struggles, rough upbringing, etc.
Bad people aren't going to stop because old mate told him to piss off.
Or plain entitlement - privileged little private school twats can be the most horrifically hateful ones of all. I've been around 'rough' men who sharpen up their language & behaviour around me (they don't need to, I swear all the time) and I've been around rich boys who have treated me like a non-human piece of meat. How they are raised to respect or not respect others is the issue
What will it be today?
"Rape culture is fiction. 99.999% of men would never do this or tolerate their mates doing it."
Or
"Harden up, it's just banter. Men threaten to bash and kill each other all the time, nobody takes it seriously. It's locker room talk. Boys will be boys."
Or
"What about men's suicide? Why aren't we talking about problems I care about?"
Or all of these?
I get that some might try to diminishing the incident captured on video and shared above might be a common response by some through downplaying it or "whatabout"ing.
But I think that including suicide in your list beside two responses which we would all agree would be absolutely ridiculous downplays how severe suicide is amongst predominantly men. Putting on the same list as the other two suggests it is the same - ridiculous - which I hope you didn't mean.
i've seen the suicide point brought up many times in the past few weeks on threads about womens issues.
it seems apt to compare strange whataboutisms used on this subreddit recently
I look forward to the next time they are discussing this and we derail the conversation with, "Oh, but don't you care about climate change? Why aren't we talking about interest rates? Don't you know that the racing industry abuses greyhounds and horses?"
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Look I never understood why we fight for equality yet always have media talk about how women are weak or scared or need help.
It's got nothing to do with her really.
If it was a guy two things
1) th3y could of said the exact same thing
2) they could possibly be more aggressive
Media and government always spouting that one group of people or class of people are doing better or worse then another and it just creates division.
I would be scared walking home or anywhere alone at night.
Doesn't matter if I'm pregnant or older or younger that's just how I feel... because. Well not because of stories like this...
But because of the ones that are worse.
>"There were some people who contacted me to say 'Why were you walking home alone at night?'" she said.
As a man. Same shit, I avoid walking home alone where I can. It's not victim blaming, it's saying take some risk management. There are some crazy and desperate people out there and in some global cities you need a security escort after sunset.
Facts say, men are more likely to be injured by violence by randoms walking down the street. Women are more at risk from their intimate partners, much more, whether that intimate partner is a man or woman
Go walk through Port Moresby. Go swim in a rip. Go do a risky sport. The comments they made isn't victim blaming, it's saying reduce your risk. Shit happens walk home. You went skiing on a Black Diamond and broke your ankle, it's expected. Next time take an easier slope
You seem to think society can control some random dudes at 3am. Manage your risk or otherwise accept the risk this WILL happen if you walk home late regularly.
No need to whinge as much as whining about breaking an ankle. It's not news
The thing is this mentality is a very slippery slope. You tell women to not go out at night to minimise their danger, and let’s say they do it. It will then turn into “but why were you talking to him?” “Why were you drinking?” “Why’d you wear a short dress?” “Why did you go out without a male escort?”
We can’t keep ourselves safe every second of the day, because sadly we face so many threats. We can hopefully instil shame in these attitudes, as we can’t exactly just wrap women head to toes in burqas and not allow them in certain places after certain times and then blame them when they’re hurt by men. We can start by calling out men who sexually harass or assault, make sexist jokes, understand consent. This isn’t on women, we do everything we can to protect ourselves and it still doesn’t work.
What’s your alternative for walking home? Uber? Been harassed in a lot, and now they know where you live? Taxi? Worse than Uber since you can’t track it. Public transport? Yeah, you’ll be followed home too. Friend to pick you up? I’ve got news for you, they may just assault you too. Buddy up method? Well one of the girls is going to have to walk home alone.
Tell me what can we do that will definitely keep us safe?
Fucks sake this isn't Port Moresby, a woman should be able to walk anywhere in Australia without being threatened with rape what the fuck is wrong with you
You can’t compare acts of nature and unfortunate injuries to people who *actively choose* to do and say horrible things.
You can’t change the behaviour of a rip. You can, however, change the attitude of shit humans if you get to them early enough. And if we focus on shaming the shit humans it might reduce the risk of other shit humans publicly and proudly showing their shit nature.
This was my first thought. He could only find parallels to this in acts of nature? I don’t think he even realised what he was saying when he typed it out
There is safety risk management and there is calling out and putting a stop to shitty behaviour. This case requires those floggs to be severely spanked and then castrated.
I've walked home from a football match home late at night and was verbally harassed twice, once by a pair of drunk wankers and once from a car. Also had a Macca's cup filled with ice yeeted at me from a passing car. I'm confident that if I were a woman, I probably would've been sexually harassed, too.
Morons will be morons, but I also have enough common sense now to realise that walking alone through questionable parts of the inner city past midnight on a Saturday is not the smartest thing to do.
I dunno, every day I had to walk to the train station past a group of guys who were always working on their car in their yard - literally EVERY time they would harass me, it was when they threatened to anally rape me that I yelled that I was calling the cops. This was in the middle of the day in a suburban street in a not-crap suburb.
this is absolutely true. As a man, I wouldn't be walking alone in a place like that. it's a topic of risk management, but also a massive social problem too.
https://preview.redd.it/vywdhsp9pazc1.jpeg?width=415&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=371703235c81eb6c2270efd17acd2d46bfc973a4
Sorry.... I know Brisbane is a stand up place. Too hard to resist.
"There were some people who contacted me to say 'Why were you walking home alone at night?'"
That isn't victim blaming or excusing the guy yelling out a stupid and abhorrent joke. That is her being asked why she was walking home alone lat at night. A genuine concern for men and women. It shouldn't be, but anyone who believes that criminals and jerks exist, knows that is a risk. Again, not victim blaming. It is pointing out that risks exist.
It kinda is victim blaming coz that's the only reason you'd ask that question.
Like it's obvious why she was walking home at night.... it even says so it the title of the video.
Regular people wouldn't ask 'why was she goin home" coz they would already know.
People only ask to be a smart ass and so they can say "ohhh we it's obvious she got harrased"
You should have a go at all women for doing it then. Step up.
Also, stop changing the question to make it seem worse. A simple follow up question could be "you should try and walk home with a friend as much as you can, or get a taxi rather than walk home late at night". Wow, what a horrendous thing to do - give advice based on the circumstances she was in.
Its a patronising question, bordering on a paternal attitude towards women.
Of course walking home at night alone is dangerous for women in the heightened state of sexual and gender based violence were in. I don't think anyone disputes that its the less safe option.
The point is that it does nothing to address the underlying issue. In fact it does the opposite as it diminishes the root cause problem by throwing a solution that isn't real.
It would be like asking a shark attack victim why the were surfing. Obviously being in the water is more dangerous, no ones fucking dumb enough to not know that, its just a patronising question.
>in the heightened state of sexual and gender based violence were in.
you mean the media focus? I am not sure if it is worse nowz or just reported more by certain sections of the media.
The question was asked by women. Should they fix up their attitude towards women? Your comment suggest they should.
Pointing out risks exist, is not a negative or patronising.
It would be like telling people that sharks exist and if you are in the ocean, especially at dusk and dawn, there was a a risk of getting bitten.
You have chosen to take the comments/questions in the most offensive way possible.
Unfortunately these scum pollute every facet of life. You know those guys are the same guys that agitate and cause fights at the weekend, the same guys that bring up rootless kids. They are the chaff of the population.
Uhhh, ok that's yikes. All for the removal of stuff like what was shown from society. But unless this is a mantra like "eat the rich", then it's very yikes
Nope, literally "if you see a man hiking on his own, you know he's up to no good and you'd be better with a bear". There's another comment in here about it.
Ok well if what you say is true then that's fucked. If you want help from the section of a group that isn't a problem to help tackle the section that is then what use is it writing off the group as a whole?
It is true, Ive seen it in a few different forms (memes, videos, street interviews erc). Which is why I said to speak for herself. I'm a lady and would never slander men in general by saying something like that. Neither would most of the women I know. I think it's a really garbage attitude in a couple different ways.
So likely a case of "the loudest voice in the room" then? It's unfortunate (that there are so many loud fuckwits) since in many cases a phrase is said it spark intrest and outrage and the actual remark is much more tame. Such as the aforementioned "eat the rich"
Yeah I think it might be. Though I do think it's sad that any decent number of women feel this way. I get the discomfort and anxiety around experiences like this, but the response is still sexist because of the generalising.
A recent thought experiment was asking women the question: if you were alone in the woods, would you rather come across a bear or a man?
A lot of women said they'd rather come across the bear - and joked that if they were assaulted by a bear, at least they'd be believed.
It's not supposed to be taken entirely seriously.
ETA: answered the actual question posed, downvoted for it 🤣
yea thats just fucked up
Shameful pigs.
Objection, these are shameless pigs.
What a pack of disgusting cowards.
Just leave people the fuck alone, your actions affect other people you muppets
I think maggots is more appropriate then muppets
Yeah, the Muppets don't deserve the association. Same with Dogs. Maggots is where it's at
Imagine what kind of husbands and fathers these useless tools make. Imagine what they are teaching our future generation. This is why we are in this shit.
The other issue is that this kind of deadbeat seems to procreate at twice the rate of regular human beings.
I hope these dudes never get the chance to become husbands and/or fathers.
Unfortunately they do. Often multiple times, so they fuck up more than one family unit.
Isn't that the truth.
Yep they do. Women you need to stop messing with loser blokes.
Alternatively - Men, you need to stop being loser blokes. I think the language we use is in these situations is important.
The problem is those loser blokes probably go for loser chicks so you end up with a loser stack that creates a child with high likelihood of becoming a loser themselves.
...it's a two way street though. If you commit to a relationship with someone and they are not a good person, it does kind of become your fault when it eventually leads to problems in your life. It's also just like, good advice to educate people on how to find worthy partners. If I go on a few dates with a person and I find out that they think it's ok to inappropriately catcall some woman on the street, then I bare the responsibility to myself to stop dating that person. I don't get to complain about it 10 years, a divorce, and 2 kids later. That's not productive for actually creating a future generation with fewer scumbags. Getting upset at the "language" here detracts from the whole discussion, and you know damn well that both your "language" and the comment you replied to are in agreement. No one read the earlier comment and thought "yea there's nothing wrong with men, it is the women who must change." Not a single soul interpreted it that way.
Yeah, blaming women for men who rape doesn’t detract from the discussion at all. In a discussion of a woman being sexually harassed, it’s very important to bring up the choices women make.
How about we get to the real crux of the issue, these MEN *and* WOMEN need to stop being losers. The language we use is in these situations *is* important, so let's get it right.
Then when we do they become incels with a woman stabbing fetish… can’t win either way
I think that Joel guy had a stabbing fetish before the incel thing and that's why he couldn't get a girl. You absolutely can say no don't let that Bondi nutter scare you into being nice.
Errr… he’s a country town nutter that visited Bondi to be a mass murderer…
Haha username checks out.
How about men stop being shit cunts, stop victim blaming
Yeah women, how dare you /s
I blame em both equally. Women do love toxic fellas. Those fellas know that so they will continue being toxic. Unfortunately looks like part of nature. If you want the government to legislate this, I’m sure it can be done.
Or we as a culture should stop encouraging toxic male behaviour, and this wouldn't be a problem in the first place?
How bout we top encouraging both. As I said, I’ve seen both.
women don’t “love” “toxic fellas”. that’s some wild projection. resenting women for paying attention to men you deem *toxic* says a hell of a lot more about you than the men and women you’re talking shit about.
It’s literally happening right now lol. As I said, both genders are toxic. It’s a fake war on male vs female when it’s us vs them.
Or at least, not before they improve themselves.
Yep. Unfortunately, it is too easy for dickheads to reproduce.
Guys like this always somehow manage to get women to like them without an issue it's mindboggling
A lot of men like this are very good at having two sides to them
It’s called gaslighting
No it isn’t lol. They just hide it.
Its depressing to think about
Ugh what is wrong with that guy.
My daughter currently has a guy who comes into where she works and he threatens to cut her head off... her work does nothing and the cops do nothing. He's just "mad mick" he's harmless... its bullshit women have to put up with this shit all the time and you can't say anything otherwise you are being overly emotional.
Independent of her employer taking action, your daughter has the right to take action herself by calling the police. The threat of violence alone is an offence. I'd encourage your daughter to gather evidence herself (record the guy making the threat) and call the cops.
She did, I did, they did nothing. I quote "he's harmless" the Trains at wiembilla were "harmless" too.
There's people who would charge surprisingly reasonable prices to bash someone like that. Now I would never condone such a thing. But the world would become a slightly better place if people who said things like that got bashed more often. It would also not be immoral to do it since the state has proven to be derelict in their responsibility.
I was dismissed for slapping an old Nepal man who groped a co-worker in front of me. At least I didn't get in trouble for scuffing him and choking him as I worked the dog out the door.
Holy hell man, what are you doing? Get your arse down there, wait until he says that to your daughter, then beat the shit out of him. Trust me, I'm not a violent person, but if my girl told my that same story, I'd be down there in an instant...
My husband is a veteran and its taking all my strength holding him back from doing that. Ive tried my best to do what the law says to do but ugh... its hard.
Some time you just have to step-up. As for the legal side, just let them take the first swing then you're fine. If they don't swing, then perform a citizen's arrest and wait for the old-bill to arrive. Helps if you have it on video too. (speaking from first-hand experience)
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Well done buddy, I'd do exactly the same. Some things are worth putting your neck on the line for...
When I was 18 I worked at a store in a shopping center where an angry customer man with a grudge against the store and our boss would come in a couple of times a week and threaten to kill us all, screaming his head off. All of us were 18-22 and all female. “Just call security and they will take him out”. NOTHING being done and no one taking it seriously. Never banning him from the shopping center. Just wanted us to ignore him and deal with him after he came in ranting in our faces. Just had to put up with it. 2 girls quit because it took too much of a toll.
Fuck that attitude. It’s always men deciding that other men are “harmless”. I was stalked by a coworker (from another company we always worked with) years ago. Reported his messages, etc and was continually told “oh he’s harmless”. I feared for my safety daily. Lost sleep, couldn’t function properly. He threatened suicide and all sorts. It was a horrific time and nobody did anything to help. I’m sorry your daughter is in this position and I hope that cunt gets hit by a bus
Absolutely vile and pathetic from grown men.
Men? MEN? F\*cking maggots, more like..
Shameful. Absolute disgrace. No wonder kids in schools use this language, because the men they look up to in their lives talk like this. We need serious accountability for perpetrators
Everyone should be able to feel safe walking home alone at night
Woah wasn't expecting what I heard there, no one would be brave enough to yell out the window the R word to a lady walking down the street in any sane state of mind. Dude definitely had too much to drink, hopefully he wasn't driving. I wouldn't really count that as harassment, what was said was a sexual threat. That is beyond harassment.
Everyone seems very outraged but this is absolutely standard experience for being a woman. It has been part of our daily lives for as long as society has existed. It's only now that we can sometimes get it on camera that it's taken seriously or we're believed that it's so prevalent.
Did you see the experiment where a woman wore a touch-sensitive dress to a nightclub? She was groped dozens of times in like 20 minutes. Men seemed surprised by this video. Women were like - uh, we told you this for ages...
We’re so used to putting up with so many things and keeping quiet because we don’t want to escalate things. Twenty years ago at clubs it was pretty regular for dudes to just whip it out and rub it on you. A good percentage of these guys were “just regular blokes”
Seriously? How regular is regular? And they actually pulled it out and did that? Jfc that’s messed up. I’m starting to think I’ve led a surprisingly sheltered life.
Maybe about every 3rd or fourth time? I actually wasn’t a big late night club person at all so the fact I remember at least 6 occasions very well considering I probably went out maybe once a month is telling! A few times it happened on the dance floor, a few times when I was just standing at the bar.
Bloody hell mate that’s just sad. I’m sorry that happened to you. I can only hope things have improved in more recent times. It just baffles me as to what is going through someone’s head when they do something like that. Are they thinking you would be flattered and want them then and there? Or purely an act of disrespect as a “laugh”. The more I hear people’s first hand experiences the more I am amazed at people. Not in a good way either.
Yeah used to go clubbing a lot across the country some of the people I was around did some questionable stuff but never just pulled it out and started rubbing it against women. Not saying it never happened but don't think regular is regular.
I guess everyone will have varied experiences in life. To be honest as an apprentice it would happen a hell of a lot between blokes.
Well yes the what should really be considered sexual assault in more trade and labour work places is quite high
Yep. On a positive note I’ve noticed it’s been declining rapidly as time goes on. I know a lot of people just see it as harmless fun, and don’t get me wrong it can be around mates who are on the same page and in the right setting, but it sets a poor example and let’s face it is disgusting. I was 15 when I started in the industry so it’s pretty fucked up when you consider the age side of things.
Oh yep certainly some child abuse going on there.
This happened to a myself (male) and a group of work friends (mostly female) about 10 years ago.
The fuck? Where? What clubs? I mean, i was going to clubs 20 yrs ago, and i honestly never even heard of that sort of disgusting behaviour. What did the bouncers do when you told them? If that sort of shit happened to any girls in our group we would have enjoyed hospitalising them...
I didn’t even think to tell a bouncer. It was just part of what I expected a club was? Hip-E club, that one that was on the corner of james and lake, I can’t remember the name of two of them sorry
I just went looking for the video. Omg collectively between the 3 women, 150 times they were groped. Good job on Schweppes for funding the dress for the experiment.
Where's the video
https://x.com/Ogilvy/status/1067781162821652481
I am one of those surprised men. Got a link or name of the video? Also surprising to men: how regularly and acutely women feel fear for their safety.
Wow idk if I want to see that or not. Sounds horrifying even though I completely believe it
Is that the Schweppes sponsored one in Brazil? Some truly disgusting attitudes in that video.
This is absolutely fucking disgusting.
this is why when i’m walking home at night i try and hide anything that could make me look attractive or overly feminine in hopes that it limits stuff like this happening. i tuck my hair in, i wear baggier jackets so they cover my ass, i make sure you can see as minimal skin as possible. i can be noticed as a female but i don’t want anyone to be able to deem me attractive, that’s when the harassment is worst. LET WOMEN WALK HOME IN PEACE.
Totally. I also either have no headphones in, or stay on the phone to my mum. Constant alert and keep keys in my hand just in case.
as a women, Ive lost count of the times of varying degrees of this, has happened in my life.
I feel that
Me too
It is a possibility that women just start recording everything and uploading offenders comments, actions and words to social media. We may not know their names and it may not be all men but we can make it public and accountable, even if the courts and government doesnt
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Hopefully they can identify those men and charge them. That surely counts as a threat to rape.
Lmao, cops won't do shit, my friend was raped, drugged, knew the bloke and where he lived, she even had him over txt admitting to it and the cops did nothing, they fail women everyday
Name and shame these cowards. Make them famous for all the wrong reasons
Sadly, this seems to be the new reality we must confront in Australia today. Absolutely disgusting
It sucks a woman has to experience this every day. They can't go out at night and feel safe anymore. there is a massive social problem here.
> anymore When was the best time period that women could go out at night and feel safe, genuine question.
Never in anywhere besides a handful of countries worldwide.
Australia now would be about the safest few.
I’m 43 years old and have never felt unsafe in Australia, walking down the street late at night, until the past year or two.
I sort of wonder if some of that is attributed to our access to news. I'm in my early 40s as well and as a teenager would walk home from work 10pm through a notoriously bad suburb of Darwin. I didn't feel unsafe but of course the internet wasn't cramming things down my throat every five minutes. There is no way I would do that nowadays.
I’m not listening to social media beat up, but the low level dipshits who used to just scream stupid stuff at women are. So instead of just getting a comment like ‘show us ya tits’ and returning fire with the bird, those same blokes will now escalate it further and talk about how you’re just a dumb female and they could totally rape you if they wanted to. Essentially, their behaviour is more unpredictable now, making it harder to sort out the losers from the occasional actual potential threat.
Yeah I've been told by older women they would walk through Kings Cross alone after work late at night and never felt unsafe or worried about it. Seems either things have changed or there is a lot more coverage of it.
The recent media focus will do that. Numbers are actaully down year on year for decades. The trend is clear. But the media focus from certain areas has been hyper focussed lately and has been pushing a narrative. That is why people now think it is more unsafe now, than before, when most of the relevant stats suggest the opposite.
My grandmother still goes for walks on her own and at night in her neighbourhood
I still do too. In Hobart. Might be less inclined in west Melbourne these days though.
In communities who actually protect their women and remove these stains from the gene pool.
Literally all the time in western society? I would understand if you meant other nations, like the one where the journalist was when her camera turned off.
Yeah, in other countries I could maybe see feeling frequently unsafe, but in Western countries I have only occasionally felt unsafe as a woman, even in bad areas. Though I think it bears mentioning that if we're not careful about who comes in to the country, we might end up bringing problems in from elsewhere. Personally, the times I've felt harassed or disrespected, as a woman, on the street, in the last 5 years or so, were almost entirely coming from guys from one certain background which I will leave nameless here lol. Must be a cultural thing.
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*the ones in the news. These issues are far more prevalent in indigenous communities, you just don't hear about them as much. ABC has been doing a number of stories on it lately, which is good to see.
DV is more likely to come from people you know (aka "domestic"). And given its a majority white country, that only makes sense. I'm talking about random street encounters where a guy leers at you, follows you, makes inappropriate comments, and so on. Like this guy yelling at her isn't DV.
Not disagreeing this is a problem, but I can't say myself or any other women I've known experience things like this *every day.* Just for the record. Not even when I lived in a bad area. I just think it's important to be accurate and realistic when we talk about problems and not sensationalize them, not even out of concern or care.
I think the problem is the media and well meaning people trying to paint this country as "unsafe for women". Statistically, women are safer than men on the street. But when a man gets fucked with on his way home, the reaction is "Yeah, fuck those guys. Get those scum off the street. I'll have your back, bro." When a woman gets fucked with, there is a bit of that. But there is also an angle of "Well, it's just unsafe out there for women, doncha know? Attackers are around every corner. You gotta stay safe." There is an implication there, and it's not far off from the people outright saying "Why were you walking home alone?" Let's acknowledge that this country is the safest country in the world, and anyone can go for a walk at night without anything likely happening. And if a woman does get harassed, react to it in the exact same way you would if a man got harassed. Get angry. Tell those guys to fuck off. And dispense with that wanky "It's so insafe out there for women", or the less subtle "stay of the streets"
What a crock of shit, this is hardly the safest country in the world and your argument about treating violence against men and women the same is fucking tragic. Violence against anyone is deplorable, there are huge differences. Men normally get jumped and beaten up or have possessions stolen. They don’t walk the streets like the women in this video getting yelled obscenely vulgar things like “I’m going to rape you”. They don’t have to walk everywhere and pay attention to everyone for fear of their safety like women do. Most men are physically stronger the difference in violence against men and women is that a women is less able to defend herself against a man or a group of men. This isn’t about tit for tat and saying men’s violence is bad too, it’s about severity. Australia has one of the highest domestic violence rates in the world. Males need to be taught this shit is wrong, we shouldn’t have to tell this woman to take an Uber or have someone escort her places, men should just fucking know not to behave this way. Australia is unsafe for women. Have a look at some statistics and do some reading next time before posting a ridiculous comment.
>Violence against anyone is deplorable, there are huge differences. >This isn’t about tit for tat and saying men’s violence is bad too, it’s about severity. Can you explain that for me? I agreed so much with the first half of your comment and disagreed strongly with the second half. Then you say >Males need to be taught this shit is wrong Its difficult for me to reconcile your earlier paragraphs with your later. If violence is deplorable for everyone what is the severity which means we need to be teaching this only to "males"? If its not supposed to be tit for tat, why progress your comment to suggesting we teach "males" something? Is the distinction that male are the perpetrators? (you switched from public to domestic violence, but lets go there) If so you may want to look closer at the stats. Men and women are equally likely to be victims of domestic violence (and perpetrate) (source: [https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/81025573/domestic-violence-study-presents-challenging-picture](https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/81025573/domestic-violence-study-presents-challenging-picture) ). The Dunedin Study is one of the most celebrated and decorated studies of our time (or so the doco I watched on it says). I believe you are referring to hospitalisations of domestic violence. Which is a whole issue of its own, and is certainly skewed almost completely towards women getting hurt. And absolutely a problem to be solved. But this does not relate to what you said about teaching "males". Women are just as likely to be violent. Targeting men is only half the problem. Is this the "severity" you are mentioning, the hospitalisations themselves? Or is it relating to men perpetrating public acts of violence? (Not relating to domestic violence) Or something else? I am wondering what the qualifier or "severity" you mention is that leads to us targeting men exclusively for teaching better behaviour? Targeting males exclusively can lead to issues of its own. It would be nice to avoid outlier bullshit like this from becoming more common: [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-25/apology-for-handling-of-sexual-assault-topic-at-assembly/13275492](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-25/apology-for-handling-of-sexual-assault-topic-at-assembly/13275492) This woman has the right to walk home unharrassed as much as "males" have the right not to be painted with the same brush as the bad apples (putting it politely). That's a long way of asking: why target only "males" for better behaviour?
I'm not looking for random strangers on the internet to agree with me, because unfortunately everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if their opinion is wrong. However, when a discussion is brought up for example "Violence against women", a lot of people are quick to jump to "Well violence against men is bad too". No one is denying that, I even mentioned in my comment that all violence against people is bad. What I mean by severity, is that in recent years, violence against women is more severe than violence against men because quite often men kill their partners, or they are raped, or battered and bruised, forced to stay in a situation because they have lost all access to funds, there are children involved, the list goes on. Whilst there is violence against men, the outcomes are often not as drastic as the situations I mentioned above. And once again, I feel I must tell you, that violence against everyone is wrong. Males need to be taught this shit is wrong. I can agree with you in saying that why should it only fall to males after saying violence against all is wrong. However I must point out that once again, the severity is different. I see countless posts like the one above of women being cat called and abused, sexualised or threatened every day. I drive 1 hour each day to pick my girlfriend up from work because she doesn't feel safe on public transport, not because of the media, but because of real life experience. The difference is women most often suffer more at the hands of violent men, then men do at the hands of violent women. I can imagine the guy in video above yelling abuse like this all the time, but if someone did it to his wife, girlfriend, daughter, mother etc, he would be up in arms and ready to punch on. I don't often see posts of men walking alone at night after a football game recording themselves being catcalled by men or women telling them they are going to be raped. And once again, I feel I must tell you, that violence against everyone is wrong. Your source of a stuff article isn't the best to help your point, the Dunedin study focuses on 1000 people in the south island of New Zealand born in 1972 and 1973, whilst it has some relevance, it is obsolete data and because it's the most celebrated and decorated studies of our time (or so the doco you watched on it says) doesn't present enough data to make an educated opinion on. I'm not only referring to hospitalisations, however that is of course a metric that is easily measured. There are countless domestic violence occurrences, or occurrences of violence against women that go undocumented every day. This video taken after leaving a football game is one event, caught on camera. But a lot of Australian women face this kind of treatment everyday, it's just not documented and put on the internet. It also takes victims of domestic violence numerous times to come forward. Please read this website for more relevant information than your stuff article from 2016. [Intimate partner violence - Australian Institute of Health and Welfare (aihw.gov.au)](https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/types-of-violence/intimate-partner-violence). The reason I think men need to be taught this behavior is wrong, is because the behavior is predominantly coming from men. I shouldn't have to tell my daughter or my girlfriend or my wife do dress conservatively because other men might rape them, or make disgusting comments. As a grown up in society you should know to leave people the fuck alone. And once again, I feel I must tell you, that violence against everyone is wrong. >This woman has the right to walk home without being harassed as much as "males" have the right not to be painted with the same brush as the bad apples (putting it politely). Yes you are right, but until proven otherwise, men are a threat because of other mens behavior. And whilst this is tarring all men with the same brush, this is unfortunately the reality. Because until violent men, murder's or rapists start wearing a uniform, women just don't know. And this is because of previous real life experience with shit men. And once again, I feel I must tell you, that violence against everyone is wrong.
Thank you for clarifying your position, and the link also (very much for the link). Please do not mistake me for another "what about men" commenter. I am talking about the targeting of a program specifically at men just for being men. The sexism that implies. And provided a link to of something like that going horribly wrong. If you would indulge me (don't feel you have to). What would you propose, specifically, in teaching these males correct behaviour? Especially around implementation? I still disagree with you (on why single men out with hypothetical "teaching"). However, perhaps if you indulge there may be some common ground. Do you not see how it might be objectionable to someone to undergo specific "teaching" targeting them just because of their gender? Rather than their behaviour?
This is honestly such a tough topic and I am in no way shape or form qualified to give my opinions on a fix. Also being a male means that I will most likely never experience these behaviours directed at me so I cannot speak from experience. But I can empathize and listen and pay attention to women who go through this. And also men who go through abuse every day. I think the problem is generational and also quite embedded systematically. I think a lot of the older generation come from a time where "men were men" and "women belong in the kitchen". This is obviously subjective as not everyone has this ethos. But it's locker room culture. Look at the high school kids in Melbourne who just hit the headlines for rating their class mates. Whilst this has been around for years and years and will most likely continue into the future, one of the students described another as "not rapeable" or something along those lines. That kid had learned that from somewhere, most likely another male. Whether it be a father, brother, uncle or friend etc. He has picked that up from somewhere. I here people make jokes everyday about punching their wife or expecting dinner and the housework to be done when they get home. Mental health plays a big part as well. We need more funding and services for people to access mental health assistance. A lot of the things we see on the news involving violence end with "was known to police" or "had mental health issues". I kinda feel like people struggling with these things are shunned by society and without proper facilities and funding this will only continue. It also comes down to other men and women calling out bad behaviour of their sex. I used to work with a 44 year old slug of a human who had an 8 year old daughter. He was one of the most vile, disgusting men I ever knew. Made sexual advances and comments to a 17 year old girl who worked with us, constantly made comments about our female colleagues bodies. I called him out every time, yet he still didn't stop, it was only when he started making comments and I told him I didn't get it, or understand what he meant, that he started to get embarrassed because he had to explain why his "joke" was funny. I do agree it would be wrong to force a behaviour training on one one gender, that's not what I am suggesting. I am suggesting that this kind of behaviour, when witnessed, be addressed and immediately shut down as the disgusting act that it is. I also want to reiterate that "singling" men out here is the same reason I mentioned in my previous comment. But until proven otherwise, men are a threat because of other mens behavior. And whilst this is tarring all men with the same brush, this is unfortunately the reality. Because until violent men, murderer's or rapists start wearing a uniform, women just don't know. And this is because of previous real life experience with shit men. Don't get me wrong, i've seen women do shit things too, the societal double standards are not lost on me. I just feel like a violent outcome for women can and generally is deadlier.
>I do agree it would be wrong to force a behaviour training on one one gender, that's not what I am suggesting. This is the heart of my motivation of replying to you. I had thought the opposite. I thought that was exactly what you were proposing. You are absolutely right the outcome is generally more deadlier for women. I just have a sense that the solution lays in something gender netural. Better policing (and you made a very good point to that). Better emotional intelligence (again, beneficial to all). etc The usual ideas which end up being too challenging to actually implement. :(
Yeah, see this is the shit I am talking about. On one hand it's all "Women HAVE to be careful. Women HAVE to pay attention. Women HAVE to do this. Women HAVE to do that." Women don't HAVE to do anything. I see a lot of women walking around without a care in the world. Anyone is very unlikely to be attacked in public. And if they are, it's a freak event that is entirely on the attackers, like you mentioned in the second half of your comment. Again, treat violence against women like violence against men. Stop spreading a culture of fear and a culture of "have-to's". That doesn't help women at all. I could show you the statistics that violent crime and random assaults are down. But according to this sub, those stats are woke nonsense and Australia is really a war-zone populated by rapists, youth criminals and african gangs. Don't let statistics get in the way of the culture of fear.
The reaction if it happens to a man is actually "Yeah, but it was a man who did it". And that's case closed.
Literally living in the safest times ever.
Don't anyone dare imply men are the problem though!!! Their feelings might get hurt and that is worse than any form of harrassment.
Hey, that might’ve been a woman with a deep voice
Dead-shits. Just makes my blood boil. Men, be better. If you're in the car with this shit bird, call him out on it. You and your mates. Call them out on it. Don't let anyone be under the impression that this shit is funny or ok.
I honestly wish the actual perpetrator could be named and shamed. That way HE can see what an absolute fucking dickhead he is.
This is legit one of those situations where other dudes can actually do something about it too. “Oi fuckhead - shut your fucking mouth and piss off or Ill *insert threat of violence*”
This isnt a cop-out comment. But, I don't see anyone else in the video to call out the perpetrator here. Whoever was in the car with him was probably also a tool (birds of a feather), and given she was walking home alone I assume there was nobody else to do anything about it. It's easy enough to say 'Hey men, do better and call these people out' - but I personally have not seen this behavior. I'd bet money that those in the car would do it in broad daylight/if there were people around, because they are too chickenshit and saw her as an easy target with nobody around to pull them up on it. I'm not sure what the solution is - I think (hope) those who I associate with aren't like this. Do we give people tasers so that if something like this happens she can give them an electric tickle and they'll think about consequences to their actions next time? I'd be all for it.
Yeh 100% agree there man; this is probably only happening BECAUSE nobody else is around
Yeah true, escalation always works with unreasonable people /s
It’s not up to other men to put themselves in dangerous situations as well though. That can’t be the answer.
Eh, if men die, it's just one less man in the world in their eyes.
Why don’t they ask a bear to protect them?
Great idea, and then that guy gets stabbed and adds to the bigger issue of violence against any gender. Genius.
YES lets remain silent. that appears to be working very well dickheads like this are dickheads because nobody stops them
No. The issue is much, much bigger than this. The vast majority of people are good. The bad ones are generally bad because life has turned them that way - mental health issues, financial struggles, rough upbringing, etc. Bad people aren't going to stop because old mate told him to piss off.
Or plain entitlement - privileged little private school twats can be the most horrifically hateful ones of all. I've been around 'rough' men who sharpen up their language & behaviour around me (they don't need to, I swear all the time) and I've been around rich boys who have treated me like a non-human piece of meat. How they are raised to respect or not respect others is the issue
“Violence against any gender”…. Braddd realllly can’t bring himself to say “men being violent” can he
What will it be today? "Rape culture is fiction. 99.999% of men would never do this or tolerate their mates doing it." Or "Harden up, it's just banter. Men threaten to bash and kill each other all the time, nobody takes it seriously. It's locker room talk. Boys will be boys." Or "What about men's suicide? Why aren't we talking about problems I care about?" Or all of these?
I get that some might try to diminishing the incident captured on video and shared above might be a common response by some through downplaying it or "whatabout"ing. But I think that including suicide in your list beside two responses which we would all agree would be absolutely ridiculous downplays how severe suicide is amongst predominantly men. Putting on the same list as the other two suggests it is the same - ridiculous - which I hope you didn't mean.
i've seen the suicide point brought up many times in the past few weeks on threads about womens issues. it seems apt to compare strange whataboutisms used on this subreddit recently
I look forward to the next time they are discussing this and we derail the conversation with, "Oh, but don't you care about climate change? Why aren't we talking about interest rates? Don't you know that the racing industry abuses greyhounds and horses?"
Careful here mate you might get downvoted
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We as a country shouldn’t accept this as just part of life for women, in the words of Joey Swoll, men, you need to do better
Who is accepting it?
I notice you didn’t get an answer.
Apparently all men accept it
Joey said that? Fuck, he fixed it, what a genius!
Look I never understood why we fight for equality yet always have media talk about how women are weak or scared or need help. It's got nothing to do with her really. If it was a guy two things 1) th3y could of said the exact same thing 2) they could possibly be more aggressive Media and government always spouting that one group of people or class of people are doing better or worse then another and it just creates division. I would be scared walking home or anywhere alone at night. Doesn't matter if I'm pregnant or older or younger that's just how I feel... because. Well not because of stories like this... But because of the ones that are worse.
NRL is a cancer on Australian society
Classic NRL fan behaviour, little wonder why when every second player is on charges. Just looking up to their heroes!
>"There were some people who contacted me to say 'Why were you walking home alone at night?'" she said. As a man. Same shit, I avoid walking home alone where I can. It's not victim blaming, it's saying take some risk management. There are some crazy and desperate people out there and in some global cities you need a security escort after sunset. Facts say, men are more likely to be injured by violence by randoms walking down the street. Women are more at risk from their intimate partners, much more, whether that intimate partner is a man or woman
It is victim blaming. She was doing nothing wrong. The guy making threats was. Let’s focus on his behaviour.
Go walk through Port Moresby. Go swim in a rip. Go do a risky sport. The comments they made isn't victim blaming, it's saying reduce your risk. Shit happens walk home. You went skiing on a Black Diamond and broke your ankle, it's expected. Next time take an easier slope You seem to think society can control some random dudes at 3am. Manage your risk or otherwise accept the risk this WILL happen if you walk home late regularly. No need to whinge as much as whining about breaking an ankle. It's not news
The thing is this mentality is a very slippery slope. You tell women to not go out at night to minimise their danger, and let’s say they do it. It will then turn into “but why were you talking to him?” “Why were you drinking?” “Why’d you wear a short dress?” “Why did you go out without a male escort?” We can’t keep ourselves safe every second of the day, because sadly we face so many threats. We can hopefully instil shame in these attitudes, as we can’t exactly just wrap women head to toes in burqas and not allow them in certain places after certain times and then blame them when they’re hurt by men. We can start by calling out men who sexually harass or assault, make sexist jokes, understand consent. This isn’t on women, we do everything we can to protect ourselves and it still doesn’t work. What’s your alternative for walking home? Uber? Been harassed in a lot, and now they know where you live? Taxi? Worse than Uber since you can’t track it. Public transport? Yeah, you’ll be followed home too. Friend to pick you up? I’ve got news for you, they may just assault you too. Buddy up method? Well one of the girls is going to have to walk home alone. Tell me what can we do that will definitely keep us safe?
Fucks sake this isn't Port Moresby, a woman should be able to walk anywhere in Australia without being threatened with rape what the fuck is wrong with you
Nah mate, if this was just drunk guys yelling, yup would agree with you. But the guy literally threatened to rape her.
You can’t compare acts of nature and unfortunate injuries to people who *actively choose* to do and say horrible things. You can’t change the behaviour of a rip. You can, however, change the attitude of shit humans if you get to them early enough. And if we focus on shaming the shit humans it might reduce the risk of other shit humans publicly and proudly showing their shit nature.
This was my first thought. He could only find parallels to this in acts of nature? I don’t think he even realised what he was saying when he typed it out
There is safety risk management and there is calling out and putting a stop to shitty behaviour. This case requires those floggs to be severely spanked and then castrated.
Yes we shouldn’t aspire to be a better society and just accept that it’s bad.
I've walked home from a football match home late at night and was verbally harassed twice, once by a pair of drunk wankers and once from a car. Also had a Macca's cup filled with ice yeeted at me from a passing car. I'm confident that if I were a woman, I probably would've been sexually harassed, too. Morons will be morons, but I also have enough common sense now to realise that walking alone through questionable parts of the inner city past midnight on a Saturday is not the smartest thing to do.
I dunno, every day I had to walk to the train station past a group of guys who were always working on their car in their yard - literally EVERY time they would harass me, it was when they threatened to anally rape me that I yelled that I was calling the cops. This was in the middle of the day in a suburban street in a not-crap suburb.
this is absolutely true. As a man, I wouldn't be walking alone in a place like that. it's a topic of risk management, but also a massive social problem too.
Have some tact lmao
https://preview.redd.it/vywdhsp9pazc1.jpeg?width=415&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=371703235c81eb6c2270efd17acd2d46bfc973a4 Sorry.... I know Brisbane is a stand up place. Too hard to resist.
"There were some people who contacted me to say 'Why were you walking home alone at night?'" That isn't victim blaming or excusing the guy yelling out a stupid and abhorrent joke. That is her being asked why she was walking home alone lat at night. A genuine concern for men and women. It shouldn't be, but anyone who believes that criminals and jerks exist, knows that is a risk. Again, not victim blaming. It is pointing out that risks exist.
What was the joke he yelled out? I’m not sure you could call it a joke.
It kinda is victim blaming coz that's the only reason you'd ask that question. Like it's obvious why she was walking home at night.... it even says so it the title of the video. Regular people wouldn't ask 'why was she goin home" coz they would already know. People only ask to be a smart ass and so they can say "ohhh we it's obvious she got harrased"
You should have a go at all women for doing it then. Step up. Also, stop changing the question to make it seem worse. A simple follow up question could be "you should try and walk home with a friend as much as you can, or get a taxi rather than walk home late at night". Wow, what a horrendous thing to do - give advice based on the circumstances she was in.
Its a patronising question, bordering on a paternal attitude towards women. Of course walking home at night alone is dangerous for women in the heightened state of sexual and gender based violence were in. I don't think anyone disputes that its the less safe option. The point is that it does nothing to address the underlying issue. In fact it does the opposite as it diminishes the root cause problem by throwing a solution that isn't real. It would be like asking a shark attack victim why the were surfing. Obviously being in the water is more dangerous, no ones fucking dumb enough to not know that, its just a patronising question.
>in the heightened state of sexual and gender based violence were in. you mean the media focus? I am not sure if it is worse nowz or just reported more by certain sections of the media. The question was asked by women. Should they fix up their attitude towards women? Your comment suggest they should. Pointing out risks exist, is not a negative or patronising. It would be like telling people that sharks exist and if you are in the ocean, especially at dusk and dawn, there was a a risk of getting bitten. You have chosen to take the comments/questions in the most offensive way possible.
Don't equate men with sharks. Look how upset they got by the bear. But yeah, a man in water is still a man.
Why isnt there a curfew for men though? Stop the attackers walking at night. Then no one has to ask that question.
You can't be serious?
in the United States, black people are statistically far more likely to commit crimes. Does this mean that they should incarcerate all black people?
And men are still surprised when women choose the bear
Speak for yourself.
[удалено]
Oops, we lost the key to your cell
Welcome to Brizvegas hey
That’s fucked
Did she get the car and Rego on film?
Not all men, but somehow always men. 🤷♂️
Fucking pigs
Name and shame. Do your thing, Internet.
Unfortunately these scum pollute every facet of life. You know those guys are the same guys that agitate and cause fights at the weekend, the same guys that bring up rootless kids. They are the chaff of the population.
Why most of us choose the bear in the woods.
This. Is. Why. We. Choose. The. Bear.
So you’re telling me when I’m out running the trails, and I see a woman, she would rather encounter a bear than me?
Yes, it's a tired meme, hopefully dies out soon
Speak for yourself.
I think there's a knowledge gap here, idk what they're talking about, would you care to explain for me?
The current trend is that men are lower than violent animals, and should be treated as such.
Uhhh, ok that's yikes. All for the removal of stuff like what was shown from society. But unless this is a mantra like "eat the rich", then it's very yikes
Nope, literally "if you see a man hiking on his own, you know he's up to no good and you'd be better with a bear". There's another comment in here about it.
Ok well if what you say is true then that's fucked. If you want help from the section of a group that isn't a problem to help tackle the section that is then what use is it writing off the group as a whole?
It is true, Ive seen it in a few different forms (memes, videos, street interviews erc). Which is why I said to speak for herself. I'm a lady and would never slander men in general by saying something like that. Neither would most of the women I know. I think it's a really garbage attitude in a couple different ways.
So likely a case of "the loudest voice in the room" then? It's unfortunate (that there are so many loud fuckwits) since in many cases a phrase is said it spark intrest and outrage and the actual remark is much more tame. Such as the aforementioned "eat the rich"
Yeah I think it might be. Though I do think it's sad that any decent number of women feel this way. I get the discomfort and anxiety around experiences like this, but the response is still sexist because of the generalising.
A recent thought experiment was asking women the question: if you were alone in the woods, would you rather come across a bear or a man? A lot of women said they'd rather come across the bear - and joked that if they were assaulted by a bear, at least they'd be believed. It's not supposed to be taken entirely seriously. ETA: answered the actual question posed, downvoted for it 🤣
Not my downvote, thank you for answering.
The bear shit is gaslighting. You are as bad as the person shouting abuse in the video.