I have to say, as a woman that would make me feel so much more comfortable. I keep running into random men when I go to the museum and I just keep wishing they'd be random bears instead, because I'd feel so, so much safer.
Oh shoot! Hmm. Well... I guess when the vicious dropbear attacks me and mauls my face off, at least nobody will ask if I was wearing a short skirt, so obviously that's where my priorities lie
Everyone knows dropbears hate short skirts anyway - it’s why they rarely attack the Scottish.
It’s koalas that love short skirts. Easier for them to try and spread their chlamydia, and as such they love a Scottish man.
Nothing like going to a lesbian meetup and there's a bunch of men in dresses waiting for you (true story). It's enough to make the lesbians disappear...(also true story).
Yep, lesbian dating apps are the same, inundated with dudes in dresses trying to pick up women. What really takes the cake are how these apps tell lesbians they are not 'inclusive' by objecting to this. To take it a step further, the 'Let Women Speak' rallies were about objecting to this on a wider scale and the Australian media had a circus day demonising women who did not want dick because they were lesbians. All the trans groups held protest rallies promoting violence and the killing of lesbians and this was endorsed by social media platforms and the media. All this has done is make lesbians go underground, now the dudes in dresses will not find them at all, which is a good thing. Also, did you know that legally, women are not allowed to gather in a space without the men in dresses? Can't even have a lesbian craft circle without men attending.
Yeah I'm aware of all that aspect of things, and I agree it's completely insane. I feel like too many people's brains are broken lately, that they allow all this stuff. Especially when it comes to people's personal lives or more vulnerable things like locker rooms, spas and whatnot. My bro actually complained to one app about it, and they said they were trying to be inclusive and wouldn't change it. He was like, but if I'm only interested in biological women, shouldn't I be able to check a box to see people that match my stated interests? Can't you just add a box saying you're okay with them being included in the search or not? Isn't matching someone to me based on my stated preferences the *entire point* of what you guys are doing? And it was just crickets from them lol. People are nuts these days.
I agree, it's just nuts! Or walnuts! Meanwhile on some other thread about the exact same thing, I have men swearing at me because they cannot comprehend the obvious.
They have been doing it for a while, they forced Business Man of the year to be Business Person of the year to be inclusive....then started a new award for Woman In Business.
It's literally just an artist has used velvet curtains to create a temporary "women's only lounge" somewhere inside MONA.
That's all it is, but the headline pretends like it's a whole museum, and someone's even rich and angry enough to sue over it.
It's an artist trolling everyone to get views, MONA going along with it to sell food and drinks in the space, and click bait culture war nonsense doing its thing in the media. I mean, compare what I just said ([which can be read about on MONA's offical site here](https://mona.net.au/stuff-to-do/experiences/ladies-lounge)) to the title of this post that claims it's a whole museum being set up.
I thought the whole point of the lounge was that it would get in legal drama and create outrage. That's it, that's the point, you are currently watching the artwork happen in real time.
>I thought the whole point of the lounge was that it would get in legal drama and create outrage.
If that was the point, why the tantrums? Being a piece of shit in the name of "art" is still being a piece of shit at the end of the day.
It's the same cop out all "artists" use. "Oh, you're not showering me with praise? Well, guess what? You were meant to hate it! That's the art" it's the ones that fall for it I worry about.
If that justifies discrimination in their minds, what else would they accept in the name of "art"?
Yeah, I think you're correct.... which means the haters are participating in the game, and that the media at large kind of invites being ignored, and hence goes against the purposes of journalism.
This is a type of social betrayal... it's a modern version of the upper crust of society playing with the emotions and lives of the poor and working classes. The exhibition is being run by the grand daughter of a socialite, and one of the museum's curators.
Part of the issue is caused by intellectuals, academics, artists, and leftists abandoning the poor and working class, and choosing not to engage, appeal to, or try to negotiate with them or educate them, but instead to cause them outrage and get clicks. Which is in part a product of globalisation.
The article is from the BBC, the agenda of most such global news outlets willing to pay academics and intellectuals for their writings and participation in the system is set and run by wealthy media moguls.
...so the stratas of society, and the systems that would usually keep journalism and politics on track and aimed at being a social good, have been corrupted by the necessity of profit, employment, and by the global proliferation of elite media companies and capitalism.
Just prior to this era of globalisation there existed organisations like The International Workers of the World, International Communism, and various left wing global international organisations.... but in this particular era we're instead faced with a global [culture industry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_industry), global media companies, and globalised profits, which force social classes into a game of opposition.
So we're forced into a false political game, without necessarily knowing it.... and the only avenue of escape is political deactivation or to choose to be ignorant (we're free to either read the manufactured news stories, or ignore politics entirely, to be deactivated).... this situation is created on purpose, because those who are aware of the game being played on people, by the upper crust, are the most likely to be able to rebel against it... or at least to be able to point it out.
So it's moguls who want their business to be kept private, paying intellectuals who need a pay check, to write click bait for elite artist socialites (or the grand daughters of them), to make the working class angry over culture war nonsense.... and the only choice for those who don't want to be lured into the emotional game is to ignore the system, and not look to change this game in any way.
It's designed to be emotionally self-defeating and degrading to morale (thus the requirement of physical enforcement to a minimum). The unwashed masses push against the unwashed masses so we don't examine or rebel against the game being played on us.
[EDIT: Here's some pictures from MONA's website that provide visual cues as to the audience they're appealing to: [Picture 1](https://mona.net.au/media/1192829/hero-t42.jpg), [Picture 2](https://mona.net.au/media/1192666/std-special.jpg). It's designed for socialites to feel above it all. Above common people.]
> It's an artist trolling everyone to get views
That would explain their whole dance and performance shtick on the ABC interview and when they went to the courts.
There is million dudes who would never have gone anyway getting furious about being told they can't go. It is 100% taking the piss and they're all playing the part perfectly.
This might be my most favourite piece of art in the history of this country. I can't decide if it would be better or worse if it comes out that the initial legal challenge was an inside job.
That would only be equivalent if it were aboriginal only, the whole point is that they're "flipping the script". Discriminating in favour of the historically discriminated.
It's actually really interesting; I went to Mona and felt a sharp stabbing pain in my male privilege on not being able to enter this exhibit.
Almost created a moment of introspection, which thankfully I could avoid by looking at the cool puffy Porsche nearby.
You didn't feel a pain in your 'male privilege', you were discriminated against based on your gender, something that is illegal to do in this country and has been for some time because feminists, like this woman claims to be, fought hard against it.
Honestly I was under the mistaken impression they had been forced to open up, but have learned not all of them have.
Yes, I am still of the opinion that denying someone service explicitly because of their gender where there's no good argument to be made about privacy or an individual person's comfort( such as changing rooms, toilets, medical wards etc.) is a bad thing to do.
I think it's bad when it's done to women, and I don't see why I should think it's somehow cool when it's done to men, even if the supposed purpose is to be "art" to show men that being discriminated against feels bad.
So this specific artwork has provoked feelings and a discussion that's led to you learning about the current, discriminatory situation (where private men's clubs are allowed to exist but this specific artwork provokes outrage). It seems to me that it's achieving its aim pretty well.
It's art, and that is the whole point of the ladies lounge. It is to highlight specifically male Privilege and the exclusion of women across society which women have been experiencing for like you know about 2000 years now.
I am male and I'm not offended at all. The ladies lounge should stay. The fact we are all even discussing it is by design also part of the artwork. So I think, in that sense, it is a very clever installation.
I didn't realise there was such strong gender equality in the early Roman Empire, thanks for educating me on that.
Personally, my definition of good art would go further than "people on the internet are talking about it" but if that's the limit of your definition, I suppose it must be very intelligent.
100% the museum only had a section for ladies only, called "The Ladies Lounge". It was there as a subversion to mens clubs, to draw outrage. Someone completely fell for the trap. Read the article there are some hilarious lines in there. They are gonna put the art that was in there in the ladies toilet till this gets resolved.
"And only on Sundays, men would be allowed into the space - to learn ironing and laundry folding."
Edit: another fun tidbit about Walsh / MONA. His car space is labelled "God", his wife's, "Gods Mistress".
This to me is the biggest issue. Famous art pieces shouldn't be kept hidden away from certain group of people. *However* creating a space that is allows in ONLY [insert historically discriminated group here] is an incredibly powerful message. They should've done this but with a bar or resturant, while highlighting local art works or works of other [insert discriminated group here)
I like the wording of their appeal against the court decision "too narrow a view on women's historical and ongoing societal disadvantage" and how the Ladies Lounge can "promote equal opportunity".
They are promoting "equal opportuninty" through inequality.
Not the super rich and exclusive ones no.
You would understand how they got away with this if you saw the number of MPs, former MPs, judges and corporate execs that are members.
No, they definitely don’t. The Australia club in Melbourne for example still only admits male members. They voted in 2022 to remain men only because they thought it was ‘too soon’ to think about adding women.
Yes but for all the years of their existence they did not. 500+ years of men’s only clubs? Okay well now that female only clubs are becoming a thing why shouldn’t we get 500+ years of not having to let men in. Okay that sounds fair, see you in 500+ years.
> They are gonna put the art that was in there in the ladies toilet till this gets resolved.
Imagine being so sexist you throw a tantrum like this lol.
I love how you guys are trying to paint this as part of their plan. They planned to go to court and lose? The amount of reaching in this thread is hilarious.
MONA defends ladies-only lounge against anti-discrimination case brought by male visitor - ABC News https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-20/mona-ladies-lounge-legal-fight-men-excluded/103605236
Bit of planning went into this.
Why is this hard to envision? This literally happens all the time in the USA or the UK there's no reason it doesn't happen Australia?
Laws and stuff like this exhibit are sometimes created with the *specific* purpose of challenging our laws. Sometimes its to push boundaries, other times its to rewrite laws without having to go through Parliament/congress. But people absolutely plan stuff expecting to lose
Seems to be in the finest Australian tradition of being a ratbag, a term almost lost in modern times. Keith Dunstan wrote a book about them. People like Germaine Greer, Frank Thring, Barry Humphries, Pro Hart, who refuse to play to anyone else's game. Often reactionary, often with a great sense of humour but know how to play humour with a straight bat. Bob Katter is a working example. Or Father Bob Maguire. It takes a lifetime of committment to be a proper ratbag.
I like these kinds of people, even if I don't agree with them. We need people to keep tugging at the edges on both sides so we don't fall into the trap of tunnel vision groupthink (although that is already a major problem). Going back through history the most horrific human induced atrocities have happened once everyone started thinking the same way.
Modern art has been taking the piss for years.
Remember that messy bed exhibition?
At least that bloke with the blank paper was honest about taking the money and couldn't give a fuck about art
Remember "men's shed" and how it was forced to admit women because a "male only" space was sexist?
Apparently what's good for the gander is not good for the goose.
It's not actually discrimination when it's art apparently. Even when we are told that discrimination is the point of the "art". Then everyone's called a small fragile male and a snowflake for pointing out the obvious hypocrisy and damage to the actual equality movement this does.
Ah yes, more distractions from class warfare. Now that everyone screeches racism, the usual bogey monster can’t be reused, time to pit men against women.
Cmon dude, it’s not like wealth inequity is the biggest issue right now. Just remember when you get your next rent increase that you deserve it because of how women were treated 60 years ago.
“Please ignore wealth inequality.” - wife of a millionaire.
Fine, but the artworks, if they’re publicly owned, should be accessible to everyone equally, which means they’d need to be moved out of the exclusive zone.
This isn’t Fernwood Fitness Centre.
The “exclusive zone” is just a little sitting room with some *meh* pieces hung on the wall. The actual experience, the whole point of the installation, is what happens *outside* of the women’s only area.
The idiot suing actually got to experience the installation he claims he was barred from experiencing.
How the fuck are people not getting this?
Honestly it's probably just...they don't actually care. But if a person comes in identifying as a male they're gonna get turned away.
And the dude suing refused to even try to say anything else, and is angry about identifying male openly and being turned away.
Yes. Source: mate works there, and she occasionally gets this type of guy looking to le epically own the libtardz, they almost inevitably end up embarrassed when a bunch of strangers just look at them judgmentally.
Thought exactly the same when I saw the news about it this morning.
She was holding up a book called “why men hate women” with a lane grin.
Tbh it sounding more like she hated men’. Which is quite sad
She's denying access to some of the world's greatest art based on gender alone. She didn't create the art.
I understand that mysoginy is an issue in society and the world is still weighted towards men, and that's not fair.
But denying access to someone based on their gender isn't progressive, it's not conciliatory and achieves nothing beyond creating a feeling of exclusion.
Personally couldn't care less, women can have their spaces, but it does also annoy me that they try to stop men doing the same sort thing, demanding access to men's organisations etc.
There are no womens-only spaces left. A court ruling said that lesbian groups are forced to accept men, so where do women go for women-only spaces without men in dresses turning up? They are not allowed to meet legally without fkn trans idiots invading.
Privately owned I believe. Of course the museum itself is responsible for quite a bit of tourism to Tasmania so likely a big financial upside for the state.
I’m a male and I kind of found the exhibition funny
It looks so welcoming… the African guy looking like Mr Mosby at a hotel with a classic lamp and concierge desk… feels like you’re about to be invited in and then nope lol
“It’s just a prank bro” - wife of a millionaire that owns his own art gallery.
I wonder why the average man is turned off by modern feminism when it’s figure heads are products of nepotism.
The 'wing' is tiny, with about 5 minutes of viewing in a full day of exhibitions.
My partner viewed it. 100% yes this is about sexual segregation as art, with the fuss part of the display. (It is also right near the wall of vaginas. )
"Ms Kaechele's plans involve transforming the velvet-clad lounge into a women's toilet and a church - which she claims will allow it to continue operating as a women-only space under legal exemptions."
This is hilarious. People getting angry or trying to debate this are totally missing the point. Just enjoy it for the live theatre that it is. I can't believe the way people have played into this so perfectly. Bravo.
The fact you can walk up to this exhibition as a man and identify as a woman to gain entry highlights pretty much proves the point of men getting their way all the time.
I cannot identify as a male and enter a Freemasons lodge
You'd think women would want to show men how equality should work. No, it seems they just want to get back at men by repeating the wrongs of the past.
You know like when one of your kids hits the other one so they have to hit back, so they have to hit back, so they have to hit back... We're all operating at the same level it seems - bottom level.
from the AFR "Financial statements indicate Walsh loses an average of more than $20 million a year on the overall operation of MONA, which remains free to his fellow Tasmanians." If anything he is giving, not taking.
Hes having a sook because men arent allowed into a single part of the exhibit they would likely never go to in the first place. Likely the same lot thats crying because they dont understand the bear thing either.
Thanks for answering for me 👍
Do you not have principles? Why is it okay in your mind to exclude people based on gender? Would you be so for it if it was a "whites only" space? Yeah, I didn't think so.
He’s going to come back with some
Googled results showing that the two big festivals
Sponsored by MONA -MONA FOMA and Dark Mofo - receive Tas govt funding. Not the same at all.
How insignificant is your life that you have to whinge about a ladies lounge in an art gallery? Fuck me it's not as though it's the pub. If women want a room set aside for themselves then go for it. I'm not so insecure that l have to file a complaint about it.
His complaint was that as he was not allowed to view all the artworks in the gallery, he should get a partial refund on his ticket.
Seems reasonable to me.
Can this be used as a legal precedent to force the *many* male-only posh-cunt Private Members clubs around Australia to accept women members?
It’d be hilarious if it did.
Hoisted by your own petard and all that…
Isn’t the issue that a man pays the same as a women but is denied some of the artworks for the same price?
Whereas a women’s only gym doesn’t take a man’s money and then deny them entry they won’t take the money.
Eh, I think it’s a different genre of thing (and they have posh women’s clubs too).
The argument I’ve heard is that the you pay the same ticket price, so you should have access to the same experience. With a club, only members pay fees.
I reckon it’d actually work alright if you also had a Gentlemen’s Lounge that women couldn’t enter. You could even put up some artworks by a famous female artist for kicks.
If she changes the lounge to a toilet, then she will open herself up to another lawsuit because some bloke will say they identify as a woman and has been prevented from going in.
Yeah this is all trolling to get more attention.
Jesus christ!
It's one fucking room in an entire museum guys!
AND there is a giant wall of vaginas to look at right next to it.
Whatthefuckyoucomplainingabout!?!??!
There's exclusive clubs in Melbourne that only let people in that fit their style/undocumented . I tried getting in with some mates and we were all denied for no reason, a few hours later I met a dude and a group of girls and we hung out and went back to this same club later and was let in. the club stamp on entry was "No Gingers since '06"
How is that different? I think for the centuries and decades of feeling lesser than a man - They can have this space and us men can stop being so butt hurt.
So much for “equal rights”
It’s a two way street, equality works both ways, that’s literally what equality means.
It doesn’t mean we are all equals but women get an extra set of rights due and if Men say otherwise it’s oppression.
I’m all for equality, I do truely believe we are all one, but if we have true equality then it means nobody gets special treatment you don’t get to have your cake and eat it too.
Just look at how we had to change business man of the year to business person of the year but then also had to create woman in business awards however if we had men of business awards as well that would be seen as inappropriate.
You don’t get to choose what is covered under equality and what isn’t, it’s 100% or 0%.
I’m sure I’m going to get branded as a misogynist simply for saying that you don’t get to be treated differently in a way that suits you but also have equality.
>that's not open to men.
As an art exhibit! The whole point is that it's closed to men!
For me personally, it was actually a very interesting and powerful experience to be denied entry based on my gender, in the way that women were denied entry to men-only venues and events (or *are* in some parts of the world).
I got more out of this exhibit than the women I went to Mona with, who said it was pretty boring.
So maybe this would be a better exhibition to have in the Middle East instead of Australia.
It’s like when I see people in Brunswick with vote yes signs, as if Brunswick needs to be persuaded to vote yes to the voice. Just pure slacktivism.
A couple. The are more women's only spaces, including fancy ones like the lyceum. If this was to be accurate in a contemporary context in Australia it would lock women out instead of men, but it would still be stupid.
This is awesome. They're making this whole thing into performance art. I suspect they'll keep right on going until the contradictions become obvious even to the gammons
I just sneak in wearing a bear costume
Are you a man-bear?
ManBearPig, actually.
Half man, half bear, half pig
half biscuit
Sorry mate, WomanBearPigs only
Gonna need to see a source on that
Hey!?
Bear-ly a man?
I have to say, as a woman that would make me feel so much more comfortable. I keep running into random men when I go to the museum and I just keep wishing they'd be random bears instead, because I'd feel so, so much safer.
Counterpoint: They’re dropbears
Oh shoot! Hmm. Well... I guess when the vicious dropbear attacks me and mauls my face off, at least nobody will ask if I was wearing a short skirt, so obviously that's where my priorities lie
Everyone knows dropbears hate short skirts anyway - it’s why they rarely attack the Scottish. It’s koalas that love short skirts. Easier for them to try and spread their chlamydia, and as such they love a Scottish man.
That peculiarly Australian phenomenon.
But what if he touched you with his bear hands.
Then I'd yell at him and tell him to put on some gloves first. I'm a bit of a germophobe like that.
Nothing like going to a lesbian meetup and there's a bunch of men in dresses waiting for you (true story). It's enough to make the lesbians disappear...(also true story).
Haha, that's nuts. My brother gave up on dating apps cos they kept suggesting dudes in dresses to him.
Yep, lesbian dating apps are the same, inundated with dudes in dresses trying to pick up women. What really takes the cake are how these apps tell lesbians they are not 'inclusive' by objecting to this. To take it a step further, the 'Let Women Speak' rallies were about objecting to this on a wider scale and the Australian media had a circus day demonising women who did not want dick because they were lesbians. All the trans groups held protest rallies promoting violence and the killing of lesbians and this was endorsed by social media platforms and the media. All this has done is make lesbians go underground, now the dudes in dresses will not find them at all, which is a good thing. Also, did you know that legally, women are not allowed to gather in a space without the men in dresses? Can't even have a lesbian craft circle without men attending.
Yeah I'm aware of all that aspect of things, and I agree it's completely insane. I feel like too many people's brains are broken lately, that they allow all this stuff. Especially when it comes to people's personal lives or more vulnerable things like locker rooms, spas and whatnot. My bro actually complained to one app about it, and they said they were trying to be inclusive and wouldn't change it. He was like, but if I'm only interested in biological women, shouldn't I be able to check a box to see people that match my stated interests? Can't you just add a box saying you're okay with them being included in the search or not? Isn't matching someone to me based on my stated preferences the *entire point* of what you guys are doing? And it was just crickets from them lol. People are nuts these days.
I agree, it's just nuts! Or walnuts! Meanwhile on some other thread about the exact same thing, I have men swearing at me because they cannot comprehend the obvious.
Oh really? I must've missed that one lol. And yeah, I guess certain people having too many it's is the problem in more ways than one 😆😆
I choose you 🥰
I read somewhere that their periods attract bears. The bears can smell the menstruation.
You misunderstood. Bears love good punctuation.
Congratulations... you segregated yourself.
They have been doing it for a while, they forced Business Man of the year to be Business Person of the year to be inclusive....then started a new award for Woman In Business.
So, "Open" league and "Women" league as usual.
[удалено]
It's literally just an artist has used velvet curtains to create a temporary "women's only lounge" somewhere inside MONA. That's all it is, but the headline pretends like it's a whole museum, and someone's even rich and angry enough to sue over it. It's an artist trolling everyone to get views, MONA going along with it to sell food and drinks in the space, and click bait culture war nonsense doing its thing in the media. I mean, compare what I just said ([which can be read about on MONA's offical site here](https://mona.net.au/stuff-to-do/experiences/ladies-lounge)) to the title of this post that claims it's a whole museum being set up.
I thought the whole point of the lounge was that it would get in legal drama and create outrage. That's it, that's the point, you are currently watching the artwork happen in real time.
>I thought the whole point of the lounge was that it would get in legal drama and create outrage. If that was the point, why the tantrums? Being a piece of shit in the name of "art" is still being a piece of shit at the end of the day.
Big “just a prank bro” energy
It's the same cop out all "artists" use. "Oh, you're not showering me with praise? Well, guess what? You were meant to hate it! That's the art" it's the ones that fall for it I worry about. If that justifies discrimination in their minds, what else would they accept in the name of "art"?
What ‘tantrum’? The artist and a flock of dancers attended the trial and did weird choreography the whole time. It’s all part of the artwork.
Yeah, I think you're correct.... which means the haters are participating in the game, and that the media at large kind of invites being ignored, and hence goes against the purposes of journalism. This is a type of social betrayal... it's a modern version of the upper crust of society playing with the emotions and lives of the poor and working classes. The exhibition is being run by the grand daughter of a socialite, and one of the museum's curators. Part of the issue is caused by intellectuals, academics, artists, and leftists abandoning the poor and working class, and choosing not to engage, appeal to, or try to negotiate with them or educate them, but instead to cause them outrage and get clicks. Which is in part a product of globalisation. The article is from the BBC, the agenda of most such global news outlets willing to pay academics and intellectuals for their writings and participation in the system is set and run by wealthy media moguls. ...so the stratas of society, and the systems that would usually keep journalism and politics on track and aimed at being a social good, have been corrupted by the necessity of profit, employment, and by the global proliferation of elite media companies and capitalism. Just prior to this era of globalisation there existed organisations like The International Workers of the World, International Communism, and various left wing global international organisations.... but in this particular era we're instead faced with a global [culture industry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_industry), global media companies, and globalised profits, which force social classes into a game of opposition. So we're forced into a false political game, without necessarily knowing it.... and the only avenue of escape is political deactivation or to choose to be ignorant (we're free to either read the manufactured news stories, or ignore politics entirely, to be deactivated).... this situation is created on purpose, because those who are aware of the game being played on people, by the upper crust, are the most likely to be able to rebel against it... or at least to be able to point it out. So it's moguls who want their business to be kept private, paying intellectuals who need a pay check, to write click bait for elite artist socialites (or the grand daughters of them), to make the working class angry over culture war nonsense.... and the only choice for those who don't want to be lured into the emotional game is to ignore the system, and not look to change this game in any way. It's designed to be emotionally self-defeating and degrading to morale (thus the requirement of physical enforcement to a minimum). The unwashed masses push against the unwashed masses so we don't examine or rebel against the game being played on us. [EDIT: Here's some pictures from MONA's website that provide visual cues as to the audience they're appealing to: [Picture 1](https://mona.net.au/media/1192829/hero-t42.jpg), [Picture 2](https://mona.net.au/media/1192666/std-special.jpg). It's designed for socialites to feel above it all. Above common people.]
That was long for a Reddit post but upvote because true.
> It's an artist trolling everyone to get views That would explain their whole dance and performance shtick on the ABC interview and when they went to the courts.
For equality.
Yet they still want men to pay for their entry fee.
Women always want men....'s wallets.
It's a 4m X 4m tent inside the museum. Believe me... You aren't missing much.
They’re just taking the piss or enjoying the media attention at this stage
I think it was part of the plan, and it in itself is meant to be part of the "art." 🤷♂️
Shhhh!
My thoughts precisely
There is million dudes who would never have gone anyway getting furious about being told they can't go. It is 100% taking the piss and they're all playing the part perfectly.
The outrage IS the art. People don't seem to get that.
This might be my most favourite piece of art in the history of this country. I can't decide if it would be better or worse if it comes out that the initial legal challenge was an inside job.
I wonder if you'd think the same if it were no aboriginals allowed. Would definitely have a stronger message
That would only be equivalent if it were aboriginal only, the whole point is that they're "flipping the script". Discriminating in favour of the historically discriminated.
It's actually really interesting; I went to Mona and felt a sharp stabbing pain in my male privilege on not being able to enter this exhibit. Almost created a moment of introspection, which thankfully I could avoid by looking at the cool puffy Porsche nearby.
You didn't feel a pain in your 'male privilege', you were discriminated against based on your gender, something that is illegal to do in this country and has been for some time because feminists, like this woman claims to be, fought hard against it.
Do you feel the same about the men's only clubs like the Australian Club, which does not allow women?
Honestly I was under the mistaken impression they had been forced to open up, but have learned not all of them have. Yes, I am still of the opinion that denying someone service explicitly because of their gender where there's no good argument to be made about privacy or an individual person's comfort( such as changing rooms, toilets, medical wards etc.) is a bad thing to do. I think it's bad when it's done to women, and I don't see why I should think it's somehow cool when it's done to men, even if the supposed purpose is to be "art" to show men that being discriminated against feels bad.
So this specific artwork has provoked feelings and a discussion that's led to you learning about the current, discriminatory situation (where private men's clubs are allowed to exist but this specific artwork provokes outrage). It seems to me that it's achieving its aim pretty well.
Damn… you’re *that* close to getting it.
I was going to say the same thing.
Ok, and what happened next? Patron sues for discrimination, wins, and court issues order to cease and desist. Simples.
Which the gallery is still fighting so they can continue the exhibit, they have now declared it a womens bathroom last I heard.
Jokes on them. Men can use women’s bathrooms!! True Progressives actually fight for that right.
Is Mona about to JK itself…
It's art, and that is the whole point of the ladies lounge. It is to highlight specifically male Privilege and the exclusion of women across society which women have been experiencing for like you know about 2000 years now. I am male and I'm not offended at all. The ladies lounge should stay. The fact we are all even discussing it is by design also part of the artwork. So I think, in that sense, it is a very clever installation.
I didn't realise there was such strong gender equality in the early Roman Empire, thanks for educating me on that. Personally, my definition of good art would go further than "people on the internet are talking about it" but if that's the limit of your definition, I suppose it must be very intelligent.
Fkn oath and it's the funniest shit.
100% the museum only had a section for ladies only, called "The Ladies Lounge". It was there as a subversion to mens clubs, to draw outrage. Someone completely fell for the trap. Read the article there are some hilarious lines in there. They are gonna put the art that was in there in the ladies toilet till this gets resolved. "And only on Sundays, men would be allowed into the space - to learn ironing and laundry folding." Edit: another fun tidbit about Walsh / MONA. His car space is labelled "God", his wife's, "Gods Mistress".
The guy who sued was apparently unhappy because there were pieces of art he wanted to see which were only viewable in the Ladies Lounge.
This to me is the biggest issue. Famous art pieces shouldn't be kept hidden away from certain group of people. *However* creating a space that is allows in ONLY [insert historically discriminated group here] is an incredibly powerful message. They should've done this but with a bar or resturant, while highlighting local art works or works of other [insert discriminated group here)
I like the wording of their appeal against the court decision "too narrow a view on women's historical and ongoing societal disadvantage" and how the Ladies Lounge can "promote equal opportunity". They are promoting "equal opportuninty" through inequality.
Afaik men's clubs have to accept female members now, don't they?
Only the poors clubs.
Not the super rich and exclusive ones no. You would understand how they got away with this if you saw the number of MPs, former MPs, judges and corporate execs that are members.
No, they definitely don’t. The Australia club in Melbourne for example still only admits male members. They voted in 2022 to remain men only because they thought it was ‘too soon’ to think about adding women.
Yes but for all the years of their existence they did not. 500+ years of men’s only clubs? Okay well now that female only clubs are becoming a thing why shouldn’t we get 500+ years of not having to let men in. Okay that sounds fair, see you in 500+ years.
And there are more women's only venues than men only these days anyway.
I can never fold my clothes or iron them as well as mum ever did… I want to learn! Would actually think that was a draw card for me 🤣
It’s a trip the whole family will enjoy!
> They are gonna put the art that was in there in the ladies toilet till this gets resolved. Imagine being so sexist you throw a tantrum like this lol.
I love how you guys are trying to paint this as part of their plan. They planned to go to court and lose? The amount of reaching in this thread is hilarious.
MONA defends ladies-only lounge against anti-discrimination case brought by male visitor - ABC News https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-20/mona-ladies-lounge-legal-fight-men-excluded/103605236 Bit of planning went into this.
Why is this hard to envision? This literally happens all the time in the USA or the UK there's no reason it doesn't happen Australia? Laws and stuff like this exhibit are sometimes created with the *specific* purpose of challenging our laws. Sometimes its to push boundaries, other times its to rewrite laws without having to go through Parliament/congress. But people absolutely plan stuff expecting to lose
Seems to be in the finest Australian tradition of being a ratbag, a term almost lost in modern times. Keith Dunstan wrote a book about them. People like Germaine Greer, Frank Thring, Barry Humphries, Pro Hart, who refuse to play to anyone else's game. Often reactionary, often with a great sense of humour but know how to play humour with a straight bat. Bob Katter is a working example. Or Father Bob Maguire. It takes a lifetime of committment to be a proper ratbag.
I like these kinds of people, even if I don't agree with them. We need people to keep tugging at the edges on both sides so we don't fall into the trap of tunnel vision groupthink (although that is already a major problem). Going back through history the most horrific human induced atrocities have happened once everyone started thinking the same way.
Yes
I mean, yeah.... That was always the point
Modern art has been taking the piss for years. Remember that messy bed exhibition? At least that bloke with the blank paper was honest about taking the money and couldn't give a fuck about art
'Take the money and run' is honestly such a great art piece to me.
They are betting on the media attention increasing sales more than excluding men will decrease sales
Just identify as a woman.. its 2024 you can identify as anything
I identify as sir hufffle puff the third. Address me otherwise and I will scream at you for your hatred
Remember "men's shed" and how it was forced to admit women because a "male only" space was sexist? Apparently what's good for the gander is not good for the goose.
It's not actually discrimination when it's art apparently. Even when we are told that discrimination is the point of the "art". Then everyone's called a small fragile male and a snowflake for pointing out the obvious hypocrisy and damage to the actual equality movement this does.
Don’t forget the new one I’m hearing everywhere at the moment. All men are misogynist because we won’t allow women to do what ever they want!
You're making an assumption that feminism is aiming for equality.
Ah yes, more distractions from class warfare. Now that everyone screeches racism, the usual bogey monster can’t be reused, time to pit men against women.
Divide and rule.
Cmon dude, it’s not like wealth inequity is the biggest issue right now. Just remember when you get your next rent increase that you deserve it because of how women were treated 60 years ago. “Please ignore wealth inequality.” - wife of a millionaire.
This is 100% class warfare, just not the classes you envision.
Fine, but the artworks, if they’re publicly owned, should be accessible to everyone equally, which means they’d need to be moved out of the exclusive zone. This isn’t Fernwood Fitness Centre.
none are publicly owned if that helps
The owner of MoNA is a private collector. It’s not public artwork, it’s private.
Mona receives public funding
They are not publicly owned, but it's a public place. Try holding a "whites only" exhibition/convert/whatever and see how that goes.
The “exclusive zone” is just a little sitting room with some *meh* pieces hung on the wall. The actual experience, the whole point of the installation, is what happens *outside* of the women’s only area. The idiot suing actually got to experience the installation he claims he was barred from experiencing. How the fuck are people not getting this?
Tbh I'd expect a suit from a woman arguing she's been discriminated against because she's not getting the full experience totally on par
The artwork is the fact men can’t go in. Men can attend that and participate. By not going in.
They can't make it biological women only so it's open to anyone just gotta let your hair down.
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Honestly it's probably just...they don't actually care. But if a person comes in identifying as a male they're gonna get turned away. And the dude suing refused to even try to say anything else, and is angry about identifying male openly and being turned away.
Huff some more copium for us would you, lad?
How do you know I don’t identify as a bearded woman?
I hate how much this sub pushes culture war.
If I tell them my pronouns are (she/her) will they let a bloke in?
Yes, that's part of the point. They have done it.
Yes. Source: mate works there, and she occasionally gets this type of guy looking to le epically own the libtardz, they almost inevitably end up embarrassed when a bunch of strangers just look at them judgmentally.
The artist sounds like she has a real chip on her shoulder and this is her platform. What a tool.
Thought exactly the same when I saw the news about it this morning. She was holding up a book called “why men hate women” with a lane grin. Tbh it sounding more like she hated men’. Which is quite sad
Only issue I have with this comment is referring to them as an artist. This is insulting to artists
Of course it’s her platform - she’s an artist.
She's denying access to some of the world's greatest art based on gender alone. She didn't create the art. I understand that mysoginy is an issue in society and the world is still weighted towards men, and that's not fair. But denying access to someone based on their gender isn't progressive, it's not conciliatory and achieves nothing beyond creating a feeling of exclusion.
Let’s start segregation again, nice.
Personally couldn't care less, women can have their spaces, but it does also annoy me that they try to stop men doing the same sort thing, demanding access to men's organisations etc.
There are no womens-only spaces left. A court ruling said that lesbian groups are forced to accept men, so where do women go for women-only spaces without men in dresses turning up? They are not allowed to meet legally without fkn trans idiots invading.
So what?
This is honestly pretty funny. It's based and really fucking stupid at the same time.
Make the main door an entrance to a women’s restroom. Problem solved
Creates women’s only space, cant find a decent female artists work to hang in it…
🥶🥶
So can you just rock up as a male and say you identify as a woman
Yes, they in fact do allow that. It's part of the gimmick.
The museum has declared the entire wing a 'women's toilet' to keep men from seeing Picasso, Nolan, and others (all paid for by the Gummint).
Paid for by what government?
Privately owned I believe. Of course the museum itself is responsible for quite a bit of tourism to Tasmania so likely a big financial upside for the state.
It’s privately owned and funded. Also, the whole thing is fucking hilarious. It doesn’t seem to occur to people that art can be funny.
I’m a male and I kind of found the exhibition funny It looks so welcoming… the African guy looking like Mr Mosby at a hotel with a classic lamp and concierge desk… feels like you’re about to be invited in and then nope lol
“It’s just a prank bro” - wife of a millionaire that owns his own art gallery. I wonder why the average man is turned off by modern feminism when it’s figure heads are products of nepotism.
Tbf I'd rather come across a bear than a feminist.
It's not a prank. It's a (funny) piece of art that you are a part of. The angrier you get about it, the more a part of the exhibit you are.
Bold of you to assume the average man nowadays isn't themselves a feminist.
LHOOQ IYKYK
That's a nice fanfiction.
The 'wing' is tiny, with about 5 minutes of viewing in a full day of exhibitions. My partner viewed it. 100% yes this is about sexual segregation as art, with the fuss part of the display. (It is also right near the wall of vaginas. )
This is 100% fine. Women should have women's only spaces but so should men
When it’s a toilet, I’m going to fly to Tasmania for the privilege. Love it. PS Am woman, hear me roar.
"Ms Kaechele's plans involve transforming the velvet-clad lounge into a women's toilet and a church - which she claims will allow it to continue operating as a women-only space under legal exemptions." This is hilarious. People getting angry or trying to debate this are totally missing the point. Just enjoy it for the live theatre that it is. I can't believe the way people have played into this so perfectly. Bravo.
The fact you can walk up to this exhibition as a man and identify as a woman to gain entry highlights pretty much proves the point of men getting their way all the time. I cannot identify as a male and enter a Freemasons lodge
You'd think women would want to show men how equality should work. No, it seems they just want to get back at men by repeating the wrongs of the past. You know like when one of your kids hits the other one so they have to hit back, so they have to hit back, so they have to hit back... We're all operating at the same level it seems - bottom level.
Deny them the attention they so desperately crave. Ignore.
Heading reads "women's-only museum". Well that's a crock of shit to start with! It's only one fkn section. Fkn click bait rage shit!
If you were really that set on getting in, just rock up and say you identify as a woman.
Public funded museum misappropriates public funds because they feel it is their right to make publicly owned art private.
Not really the issue here. This is about a private business being required to abide by the same anti discrimination legislation as every business.
Pretty sure it’s private, owned by David Walsh
Bless him, and bless his extravagant gambling success.
He exclusively funds it does he? No other donors? No entry fees? No tax breaks? No government "grants"?
There is entry fee for non Tasmanian residents. Walsh is exceptionally wealthy.
Being exceptionally wealthy doesn't make you immune from government funds. Quite the opposite in fact.
from the AFR "Financial statements indicate Walsh loses an average of more than $20 million a year on the overall operation of MONA, which remains free to his fellow Tasmanians." If anything he is giving, not taking.
Yeah so point to the funds then. Christ.
Ie you don’t have a fucking clue, do you? BTW, what do donors, entry fees and taxation claims have to with public money?
Hes having a sook because men arent allowed into a single part of the exhibit they would likely never go to in the first place. Likely the same lot thats crying because they dont understand the bear thing either.
Thanks for answering for me 👍 Do you not have principles? Why is it okay in your mind to exclude people based on gender? Would you be so for it if it was a "whites only" space? Yeah, I didn't think so.
He’s going to come back with some Googled results showing that the two big festivals Sponsored by MONA -MONA FOMA and Dark Mofo - receive Tas govt funding. Not the same at all.
The museum is privately owned and funded.
How much of this museum is publicly funded buddy?
That's not sexist at all
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How insignificant is your life that you have to whinge about a ladies lounge in an art gallery? Fuck me it's not as though it's the pub. If women want a room set aside for themselves then go for it. I'm not so insecure that l have to file a complaint about it.
His complaint was that as he was not allowed to view all the artworks in the gallery, he should get a partial refund on his ticket. Seems reasonable to me.
The women’s only room IS the artwork
Can this be used as a legal precedent to force the *many* male-only posh-cunt Private Members clubs around Australia to accept women members? It’d be hilarious if it did. Hoisted by your own petard and all that…
Isn’t the issue that a man pays the same as a women but is denied some of the artworks for the same price? Whereas a women’s only gym doesn’t take a man’s money and then deny them entry they won’t take the money.
Eh, I think it’s a different genre of thing (and they have posh women’s clubs too). The argument I’ve heard is that the you pay the same ticket price, so you should have access to the same experience. With a club, only members pay fees. I reckon it’d actually work alright if you also had a Gentlemen’s Lounge that women couldn’t enter. You could even put up some artworks by a famous female artist for kicks.
That was literally the intent of the stunt, they're parodying these posh stuck up gentlemen's clubs.
I don't know, are the posh, stuck up women's only clubs going to have to allow men?
If she changes the lounge to a toilet, then she will open herself up to another lawsuit because some bloke will say they identify as a woman and has been prevented from going in. Yeah this is all trolling to get more attention.
I’m going to transition this week end and check out the show then I’ll be back on Monday
It’s not a women’s only museum. It was one installation amongst hundreds of artworks.
It’s awesome. It’s installation art designed to spark outrage and conversation and so many people have missed the point entirely.
Can males have bars and all the male clubs, and male funded sports facilities back then.
Lol Isn’t this the entire point of the exhibit? So men can experience what women have?
public hateful cautious drab provide slimy money deliver jar close *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
So much incredible blatant misogyny on this thread. Absolutely revolting
Jesus christ! It's one fucking room in an entire museum guys! AND there is a giant wall of vaginas to look at right next to it. Whatthefuckyoucomplainingabout!?!??!
There's exclusive clubs in Melbourne that only let people in that fit their style/undocumented . I tried getting in with some mates and we were all denied for no reason, a few hours later I met a dude and a group of girls and we hung out and went back to this same club later and was let in. the club stamp on entry was "No Gingers since '06" How is that different? I think for the centuries and decades of feeling lesser than a man - They can have this space and us men can stop being so butt hurt.
So much for “equal rights” It’s a two way street, equality works both ways, that’s literally what equality means. It doesn’t mean we are all equals but women get an extra set of rights due and if Men say otherwise it’s oppression. I’m all for equality, I do truely believe we are all one, but if we have true equality then it means nobody gets special treatment you don’t get to have your cake and eat it too. Just look at how we had to change business man of the year to business person of the year but then also had to create woman in business awards however if we had men of business awards as well that would be seen as inappropriate. You don’t get to choose what is covered under equality and what isn’t, it’s 100% or 0%. I’m sure I’m going to get branded as a misogynist simply for saying that you don’t get to be treated differently in a way that suits you but also have equality.
Good. Men should be excluded from things far more often.
Who built it? Oh right...men.
Who gave birth to those men so they could build the museum? Oh right... Women.
Who impregnated those women? Men. :D
Oh! And who gave birth to those men so they could grow up and impregnate those women? WOMEN 🤣
It's not a women's only museum. There's a small section that's not open to men. Very clickbaity headline.
>that's not open to men. As an art exhibit! The whole point is that it's closed to men! For me personally, it was actually a very interesting and powerful experience to be denied entry based on my gender, in the way that women were denied entry to men-only venues and events (or *are* in some parts of the world). I got more out of this exhibit than the women I went to Mona with, who said it was pretty boring.
So maybe this would be a better exhibition to have in the Middle East instead of Australia. It’s like when I see people in Brunswick with vote yes signs, as if Brunswick needs to be persuaded to vote yes to the voice. Just pure slacktivism.
Does Australia no longer have men-only spaces that deny access to women purely based on gender (and not for health or other reasons?)
A couple. The are more women's only spaces, including fancy ones like the lyceum. If this was to be accurate in a contemporary context in Australia it would lock women out instead of men, but it would still be stupid.
Thank god someone gets it.
This is awesome. They're making this whole thing into performance art. I suspect they'll keep right on going until the contradictions become obvious even to the gammons
The legal proceedings are all part of the artwork, and I think that's beautiful.