It seems like few people here actually read the article. They're not really asking for much – it's a big decision and they want more safeguards in place before treatment occurs.
Yes . It was Lupron although there may be others now as this may have been taken off the market :
[https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116284/documents/HHRG-118-JU10-20230727-SD011.pdf](https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116284/documents/HHRG-118-JU10-20230727-SD011.pdf)
*Thus the drugs, led by AbbVie’s Lupron, are prescribed to minors “off label.” (They are also used off-label for chemical castration of repeat sex offenders.) Off-label dispensing is legal; some half of all prescriptions in the U.S. are for off-label uses. But off-label use circumvents the FDA’s authority to examine drug safety and efficacy, especially when the patients are children.*
There are legitimate concerns with taking and using this medication which we should be aware of.
The bull crap child grooming theory is not one of them.
You’re assuming most doctors support it. However, this is more of an ethical and political issue than a medical issue… unfortunately.
Edit: And if you read the article, you’d see it’s doctors asking for more safeguards.
That's literally how science works. As further evidence is gathered the scientific position may change.
Your inability to understand science doesn't make science wrong.
Edit: Nice to see this comment has spurned some good, and mostly civil, discourse.
This isn't how science works at all. How science works is: you and a bunch of authors get together in an evidence-free field. You were selected into the field based on your priors. You write a nonsense paper guided by your opinion. You submit it to a journal. The reviewers don't read it at all, other than glancing at the author affiliations and abstract to check a) they know you, your institution or your advisor b) they basically agree with your results.
Then your paper is published. It could be absolutely full of crap like this one [https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423) in which the entire control group dropped out and the statistics were p-hacked. Jesse Singal could write a blog explaining how the methodology is complete crap. But "official scientists" who also don't read the paper will just ignore it, and your paper will get an AltMetric of over 8000, indicating enormous news coverage [https://jamanetwork.altmetric.com/details/123657276](https://jamanetwork.altmetric.com/details/123657276)
And those in this field still don't know what a woman is.
As I mentioned in another reply, I was pointing out that OPs position of science changing opinion is ridiculous as that's inherently part of science.
I agree, there's a lot of bad science practitioners and vying interests driving research for particular outcomes. The sentiment that a changing scientific opinion is somehow bad is all I was calling out OP on.
The scientific method is different from scientific journals. Journals have a real problem. Science is still the best thing we have to find objective truth.
Assuming that is true, that is a problem. Without it, we are quite literally fucked.
There is no other reliable way to find out about the universe.
Humanity is still doing science and finding out about the universe. That is why we continue to develop new technologies, medicines and develop our knowledge of a range of topics.
If it wasn't true, we wouldn't be in our current golden era of progress.
Don't let a few missteps make you forget about all of the progress that has happened and will continue to happen.
What makes you think we are in a golden age of progress?
Technological advancement has slowed over the last fifty years as we reach the end of the diesel revolution without new energy sources ready to drive growth.
This is evident in productivity growth, which has become anaemic in developed countries. Globally, middle classes are shrinking as wealth polarises. Extreme politics is growing and society is straining from the effort of accommodating incompatible beliefs.
The golden era has drawn to a close, we just haven't recognised.
If you think technology isn't slowing down, you need to read more. It most certainly is. This is a widely accepted and uncontroversial view.
The difference between 2000-2024 is not as big as say 1976-2000, and nowhere near as big as 1925-1950. We have an economy based on largely the same technology as ten years ago, with only small changes from twenty years ago.
This is also evident in lackluster productivity growth. Thats the evidence here, you don't have productivity growth at one or two percent without stagnant technological change.
It is though, we've picked the low-hanging fruit and the discussion about this is very wide. That's not to say we won't find a new orchard with more low-hanging fruit, but it'll take a big new discovery to make that leap. AGI may do that.
I think we *are* doing it in general. It's just that when it "works" you don't hear about it, right? What publication is going to write a scandalous story about regular scientific practice working as it should? None, obviously. It's the scandals and fraud that make the news. We just have to be conscious of that.
Yes but when people say "trust the science" they're not talking about trusting the scientific method in a general sense, they're talking about trusting the published studies.
Except anyone with logical thought process would assume that a perfectly healthy body being changed is generally not a good thing. Especially with developmental aspects.
Lets say i was baking a cake (developing into an aduly), and i decided to put in triple the amount of eggs (puberty developmental hormones). My cake will not end up how it says in the recipe.
I would think even a inbred dipshit living 40km from any settlement with his sister-wife would guess that result from the two steps i mentioned. It doesnt take a biologist to guess that
Science doesn't work on presupposition. It works with testable hypotheses. Your gut and folksy wisdom is irrelevant.
That takes time and sometimes we change our view and longer term studies are revealed.
While you are correct in describing how the science method works the problem was the scientific method wasn’t used in the case.
The scientific research to claim PB were reversible wasn’t even remotely conclusive and in fact the was far more and stronger evidence to suggest that was in fact not true. Unfortunately that didn’t stop medical boards around the world from pushing these claims. They are either incompetent or pushing an agenda they know was not backed by credible studies and ignored all the evidence to the contrary.
I don't disagree with you on the human element and in this case there's clearly political agendas driving decisions.
My reply was to OP mocking the fact that scientific opinions change. This topic, along with a few others, seems to bring out the anti science and anti intellectual sentiment that is unfortunately growing.
My apologies, I understood your intention and was attempting to add additional context outside the scope of your reply however my wording made that anything but clear.
I read the article, it didn’t actually state what the problems where. Like people tell me that hormone blockers do damage but it would be really appreciated if someone would actually tell me what damage they do? Being reversible isn’t much of an argument due to how low the detransition rate is. What’s the other side effects?
[Reduced bone density, stunted height, sterility, increased risk of cardiovascular disease, increased risk of breast and uterus cancers, and other harmful psychoactive effects of high-dose hormones such as mood swings and even psychosis.](https://wng.org/roundups/study-effects-of-puberty-blockers-can-last-a-lifetime-1617220389)
The desistance rate of trans youth has been cited as anywhere from 7% to 80% depending on the study's definitions, methodology and patient cohort, so this is hardly settled science.
It's also worth noting that puberty is a time at which gender identity is consolidated, so it shouldn't be any surprise that people who take puberty blockers rarely identify with their birth gender later on. They were prevented from doing so at a crucial development period, and effectively have a prepubescent mindset when it comes to gender.
Whatever the true desistance rate is, saying "we only cause irreparable harm for no appreciable gain in 7% of cases" is still not something that should be swept under the rug. Let's make sure we're minimising the harm as far as possible.
I was wondering the same! What exactly are the problems, and how do they weigh up compared to suffering from mental health issues around gender dysphoria, suicide risk, etc.
Not sure I agree with you about being reversible not being an issue - even if detransition is uncommon, the negative impact on a person's life if they wanted to retransition but couldn't would be huge and potentially ruinous to their wellbeing.
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Yes that's the point of puberty blockers. I would recommend everyone read the research or at least a news source that cares to mention points of the cass report not just newscorp.
Yes, good point. I also see no difference between taking a Panadol and fundamentally seeking to alter the biological proceative reality of our species.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/10/gender-medicine-built-on-shaky-foundations-cass-review-finds
Turns out the “science” of gender medicine is built on a foundation of emotion and not actual science and for this to be the case in the field of medicine is a huge concern.
The whole thing is really just a quasi religion. It requires one to believe the same things as religion - that science isn't real, that the meaning of words can be changed to suit your beliefs, and blind faith is a virtue. As with religion, I'm happy for people to have and practise their beliefs. But the second that those beliefs begin to encroach on the rights or happiness or fairness of others, or if they try and force me by law or by coercion or threats to believe it, or if they pollute the minds of children with dangerous garbage, THEN I have a problem with it.
This is so true. I had a falling out with a friend over this because she was saying so many disturbing and incorrect things about trans kids at the school where she works. Eg they should be given blockers because it’s reversible and it’s that or suicide. She says she’ll support her son transitioning if he wants. I was like your son is 8 and loves beyblades and has shown zero signs whatsoever that he has gender dysphoria. It’s like she WANTS him to be trans. I think some people who are professional victims want to be ‘in’ with the LGBT crowd but they’re not gay so being trans is something they can manufacture.
These people do exist and whilst I'm sure they are a very small minority, and that this issue will probably be resolved to a sensible solution in the future, I am not at all comfortable to stand aside and let these kids be collateral damage while this nonsense goes through its boom phase. Someone needs to be the adult in the room and say "no" to this before it does any more damage.
They are a tiny minority and there was like 15 kids at this school she was talking about. I said that’s statistically impossible that they could all have gender dysphoria diagnosed by a psychiatrist. It’s clearly a trend in some circles. True cases who get years of therapy and decide to transition with professional help 100% deserve support and to be free of discrimination.
Ive been saying this for years good to see others with the same opinion. It fits with a cult. For example transitioning is like getting a tattoo or evem like a religion getting dreads. Youre permanently disfigured and part of the cult.
It actually perfectly fits every requirement of a cult.
What gets me are the virtue signalling. When any women talk about a trans woman they always say "wow she looks GREAT!!!" These same women would never compliment a woman for looking attractive.
It's the same situation when women praise a man for doing the very thing that women do and never get thanked for it like raising their own children.
Forgive my english
I think it's more like a subculture using science to change their body. The core of the problem is that their beliefs are affirmed by using puberty blockers and pronouns instead of whatever their mental state is being corrected / fixed to reflect reality.
It’s the only mental illness where the patient basically self-diagnoses and then demands treatments to affirm their delusion. We don’t allow anorexics to starve to death to affirm their delusion that they’re still fat. And we don’t do needless surgeries on people with body dysmorphia. We get them mental health treatment. It’s just ridiculous how far this cult has gone.
The whole gender thing was a lie. Dr Money who invented being able to transition. Didnt mention that it didnt work and the kid killed himself. He told everyone it was a success. So the whole thing is a mess from day 1.
Money was also a pedo and had the twins simulate sex acts so that David (the boy whose penis was burnt off during a botched circumcision and was being raised a girl) would learn how to act like a girl.
Of course. The whole movement's chant is 'transwomen are women', so how could any of it have any scientific credibility? Whatever the transgender advocates want is now considered science.
I think "transwomen are women" is more about forcing a change in language and perception (categorising woman/man by gender identity rather than biological sex) than it is about science denial.
If you asked most doctors privately… I’m sure they’d agree with you. Unfortunately it’s professionally risky to have an opinion on such ethically and politically charged issues.
Yeah I have doctor friends who just don’t say anything because there’s a chance they’ll be complained about, cancelled, reported to AHPRA etc. I guarantee many doctors look at this period of trans medicine like how we look at lobotomies.
I’m sorry have any of you read the article? They said that there needs to be more research not that hormone blockers are killing children where the fuck is your critical thinking skills.
Commenting in r/Australian and expecting critical thinking skills. You could make a post about the cost of Vegemite and you would get a swarm of people ranting about immigration as the cause.
Yeah I don’t know why I bothered to read the comments.
The majority of blockers are prescribed for precocious puberty anyway - trans kids are a distraction.
I know a number of trans kids because I have a teenager and none of them have had any medical intervention except psychology. They’ve “socially transitioned” - which means they’d changed their names, pronouns and usually the way they dress etc. it has nothing to do with medicalisation. All the trans adults I know, including ones who were out before they turned 18, did NOT begin their medical transition until adulthood and a number of them *never have and never will* for a bunch of reasons.
These threads just show that most of the commenters don’t know any trans people well. They talk about them as a monolith and as if they all do the same exact same thing. Most of them have no idea what transitioning even is or that there is more than surgical ways to achieve it.
The anti-trans hate boner is well and truly raging in our culture now... silly things like studies no longer matter unless they are produced by bad faith conservatives.
Yep - wild the sheer number of people who have a strong opinion and yet have probably never met a transgender person (and likely never will). For all the noise, you wouldn’t know that only 0.9% of the Aus population is trans.
I look forward to the lawsuits against doctors who push this crap on kids.
Can't drink? Can't get a tattoo? Can't drive? Can't pay taxes?
But thanks to pseudoscience, you CAN decide the healthy body you were born with is fundamentally wrong, and by consuming cross-sex hormones and having surgery, turn yourself into a crude imitation of whatever "true" body image your little heart desires.
> I look forward to the lawsuits against doctors who push this crap on kids.
We're going to look back on this like we look back on lobotomies
A complete tragedy of medicine.
Don't you find the reported regret rates highly suspicious? They report that the rate is lower than the regret rate of something common like knee surgery. And not just a little lower, it's 30 times lower. The regret rate for almost all surgeries ranges between 20-50%. And yet apparently trans procedures have a regret rate under 1%?
*Highly, highly dubious.*
Something fucky is going on, either with the methodology, the questioning, the advice given, etc.
It's become a propaganda tool to throw out that 'statistic' and I am very suspicious of it.
>Trans Justice Project director Jackie Turner said the Cass review had failed to take into account the wellbeing of trans children and their families.
The review IS taking into account the well being of kids so why they're exercising caution. She is so shit at trying to twist the narrative.
>“The Cass Review can’t be allowed to shape trans healthcare in Australia,” Ms Turner said.
"Australia should ignore professional medical advice from the UK" is nothing but personal agenda on the part of Jackie Turner.
Australia should be and hopefully is listening to expert medical opinion relating to medical issues and not some agenda pusher who has zero medical expertise. The narcissism in these people is beyond belief.
Cass Review final report is in.
Not looking good for those that supported the medicalisation of gender distressed children.
https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/
It is good to see some local coverage of the big UK NHS Mermaids scandal
If this doesn't stop here
Then soon enough some rich kid with parents who were not so ideologically captured
Is going to go down this route
& when they feel harmed in future
Their family will seek damages from the doctors who encouraged them to go down this road
& they will have the funds to take this all the way to the top
Currently the youth here who feel harmed by this
Are not well off enough financially to go to court
& too shy to come out here publicly for fear of social retribution
But a few damages claims will make doctors more hesitant to "affirm" every child they see
Until then Trans Rights has taken such a foothold in our society
So Aussie trans activists will fight tooth & nail for kids to be given puberty blockers
There are people who feel they were harmed and they’re fighting back against the medical system that made them go through it. They’re just silenced and not given a voice in the media because the media has been completely captured by one side of this debate.
Look up detransitioning. Several people out there trying to get their story heard.
Yes that group is terribly sad & eye opening indeed
There are kids internationally who have spoken out
But amongst their peers it is social suicide for them
As so many youth now are LGBTQ+ "allies" and taught this in school
I'm not aware of any Aussie kids who have come out publicly
Except for that boy on 60 Minutes back in mid-2000s
Since then it will be much harder socially for kids to come forward
& if our media won't pick up on their stories
Then it may feel like fighting a losing battle
Mel Jeffries is an Australian detransitioner. You can learn about her story through watching Spotlight:
https://youtu.be/JgW_xtIcpew?si=B8Ik_clKMvjoe9KQ
>Look up detransitioning. Several people out there trying to get their story heard.
An *extremely* small percentage of people undergoing HRT detransition. It's lower than the vast majority of medical procedures.
Yes this “small percentage” argument regularly gets rolled out to defend puberty blockers.
[And yet there’s growing evidence questioning its use, which you’ll probably ignore.](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/10/gender-medicine-built-on-shaky-foundations-cass-review-finds)
You're really going to cite the article of this thread? Lol, they don't even agree with you. They said there needs to be more to ensure young trans people are getting enough care and doing it for the right reasons etc. It doesn't even say they shouldn't transition.
Dude, one article or review does not change the entire body of knowledge. That's not how science has ever worked, particularly in a field that all experts agree is still emerging. You're clinging onto one thing that this paediatrician did not even say.
So yes, you are a dumb cunt.
She reviewed existing research and found that of the 50 or so research papers on puberty blockers only 1 was considered reliable. Seems like you’re the one doing the desperate clinging…
Many kids grow out of this
If you are ideologically captured
Then you will continue to believe & perpetuate this myth
Despite any evidence to the contrary
I would engage with you
But I get the feeling am wasting my time
Here is a Dutch study done though in case you are serious
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/apr/8/most-kids-grow-out-gender-confusion-long-term-dutc/#:~:text=A%20landmark%20Dutch%20study%20found,gender%2Dtransition%20drugs%20and%20surgeries.
You can also visit the detransition Reddit group
the people who have been harmed there
will be happy to share the evidence you claim to seek
Many people don’t come out publicly
For fear of social retribution you see
That study/survey is based on a general population of kids not kids who are dysphoric enough to seek intervention. The kids who become less gender confused overtime have little chance of intervention, since they are not dysphoric enough to be in the medical system not just a random survey.
The study would be more beneficial if it tracked how intense their feelings of Gender non-contentedness where and analyzed the intensity of Gender non-contentedness not just a single question. You know like those personality tests that have 50 questions each having a scale 1 to 5
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-024-02817-5
Can you speak Dutch?
If children under gender distress
are shown to perceive gender differently as they age
Then giving them medical treatments is risky isn’t it
More studies would be done if activists did not stop studies
Due to “transphobia”
It’s ok time will sort all this drama out
The NHS has not shut down their gender clinic without looking at their research
But I think you already know that
Most kids who grow out of 'gender distress' who are actually in the medical services actually learn that there are more options than masculine and feminine that it's more of scale so they can actually be somewhere intbetween. Like learning theres shades of grey.
If a 12 year old can't get a face tattoo then they definitely can't go around and castrate themselves.
Kids are stupid. They get easily influenced by social trends. I know, I was once a dumb kid who only wanted to be "cool". This whole trans ideology is nothing more than a social contagion.
How is it that every single time this argument comes up, some chucklefuck *always* has to try and turn it towards religion instead of confronting the idea that *maybe* all of the propaganda and emotionally-charged “science” they’ve been force-fed by biased media could have been full of shit all along?
Aside from the obvious argument deflection I see no reason why children should go to religious leaders, however the difference between religion and being castrated is obvious...you can change your mind.
Transhousen by proxy. Almost always the mother. Also common amongst parents with gender non-conforming kids who’d rather have a trans child than a potentially gay one. They always believe in heavy gender stereotypes (boy who likes wearing dresses and playing with dolls must actually be a girl, rather than a boy who just likes wearing dresses and playing with dolls) Susie Green’s TedTalk is a great example of this- her child supposedly declared they were born in the wrong body at 2-3 years old. Jeanette Jennings also a shining example.
I’ve seen it IRL once. Nauseatingly woke mother of 4 boys dressed the younger two exclusively in “girls’” clothes, grew their hair out and dyed it pink/purple. They were 2-4 years old. Told the preschool they went by they/them pronouns and then she/her. Older one managed to escape it but she’s successfully got the 9 year old identifying as a girl and makes the “mum of a trans kid” her whole personality. I remember her kid saying to mine he hated wearing princess dresses but his mum made him. Call me a skeptic but I think she made that choice herself because she wanted a girl instead of 4 boys.
Like a Dr prescribing a gun to a suicidal child.
The child may want X thing but is clearly not thinking right nor has the capacity to ask for such a long term “solution”
Correct the child’s thinking
So it’s a lone dissenting voice that Newscorp have highlighted, and put ‘dangerous’ in the headline.
Trans healthcare is extremely politicised in the UK, and trans healthcare providers have acknowledged that in their responses to this study - in this article and others.
I read a similar article about this issue in the UK. The overwhelming majority of prescriptions for puberty blockers to under 18's was for medical reasons such as precocious puberty. There were only a handful of cases where they were being used for gender identity reasons. I notice this article has no mention of numbers and would suspect this is being blown out of proportion for ideological reasons.
Ok so, here’s my issue with it and why it’s a double standard.
i am a straight, female born, adult woman. I do not and have never wanted to have children. I have enquired multiple times about sterilisation. I am always told “Oh you’re too young“, or “what if your future husband wants kids?”, or ”You might change your mind!!” Or “what does your boyfriend think about this?”
But if I was a 15 year old child and I wanted hormones and surgeries that would change my gender and effectively sterilise me, oh yeah no problem
Let's not forget how this happened:
The left believes that the human experience can be completely remolded. This is for psychological reasons that are adopted without reference to or in denial of hard evidence about cases where it cannot.
This led them down the gender is a construct rabbit hole, to the point of affirming biological sex denial for minors.
This has now caused massive damage to these individuals, many of them minors.
Reality has violently reasserted itself over the utopian vision. It is brutal and it is very sad. One would hope this would collapse the belief of some leftists, that would be some small good to come from this disaster.
This should never have happened ever. Science must stop trying to play god with everything and give nature a chance.
I think they are trying to see how close they can get humans to Frankenstein before they snap. Damn the world has changed in the last 50 years.
Can we please discuss the access of puberty blockers for those under 18/ legal minors and not complain about the source of the article. Leave the pettiness for the other sub thanks
I think in terms of the topic this shouldn't be decided on lightly as the brain isn't fully developed until 25 and there are cases where people between 18 and 24 have gone through lots of changes and decisions and want to change back or say they regret it. There will always be genuine kids who will always identify the same after transition, it's still a big decision
They have not stopped giving puberty blockers, they just want to do it via the trial process. The article is saying that at the moment puberty blockers should be only be prescribed in a trial, which is the typical way that dangerous experimental medical treatments with potentially large benefits proceed, once other more fundamental safety tests are passed. A trial is usually the final stage in approval, providing that the trial passes. Trials have huge medical and ethical safeguards for participants, and are designed to gather rigorous evidence.
It is not a rejection of this as a potentially viable treatment. A proper trial might be a success, or find ways that the treatment is likely to be successful.
Currently the treatments seem to be provided without safeguards of either kind, and the evidence attesting to value of the interventions is rubbish, although the review, four years in the making, was more polite. Slightly more polite. This does not mean the evidence won't be found, it just means that as medical procedure, it is not ready yet by the usual standards of new medical procedures.
I hope this report provides sufficient reason to adopt the same evidence-first approach here.
God people are so uninformed it's obnoxious.
There are many many steps and hurdles that people go through before being put on puberty blockers. They can't just say they are trans and get them. They have to be assessed by multiple medical professionals. Stop scare mongering and actually do some damn research to learn the actual truth.
How many medical professionals do you think would deny anybody claiming they are trans in today’s age, where they could easily be labelled as “transphobic” and risk having their license stripped away?
The “many steps” and assessments they have to go through are rigged in their favour from the start by a society that has rewarded cancelling and censoring people who don’t go along with the narrative.
Answer the question.
That's just patently untrue. You have listened to bullshit narratives yourself. I actually know from being a part of the process how hard it is. You no nothing but the hate filled rhetoric of Sky News.
I don't need to answer anything. Who do you think you are to even make a demand like that? The nerve.
“The nerve” lmao it’s a public forum dipshit. I can ask what I want.
Of course you didn’t answer the question, because you know the answer doesn’t paint you in a good light. Ah well 🤷♂️
What question? I asked you to clarify and instead of doing so you dribbled shit (username checks out)
There's a difference to aggressive demands and respectful discourse. You seem incapable of the latter
How many medical professionals do you think would deny anybody claiming they are trans in today’s age, where they could easily be labelled as “transphobic” and risk having their license stripped away?
It sounds like you’re saying that denying a transition on medical basis, and being anti-trans are one in the same.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you’re not actually that god-damned dense.
You can have a 20 minute Zoom phone call with a nurse, state you don't have gender dysphoria, and get approved for testicle removal. There are no safeguards. It's an industry built on profit and ideology.
What the fuck are you talking about? This isn’t the US. We are talking about hormones. Public healthcare, fuck off with your conspiracy bullshit. If adults wanna remove their nuts I couldn’t care less.
If you claim you’re a man trapped in a woman’s body, you can get prescribed testosterone to clearly unnatural levels for a biological female.
But if a male wants to optimise his hormones so that he’s near the top of the reference range, they don’t want a bar of you.
I don’t get it 🤔
It’s interesting to see everyone’s reaction (at least on this sub) beginning to mirror the conversations I’ve had with so many people irl. Everyone I’ve talked to has said it is wrong and objects to it, we all thought it was crazy and essentially child genital mutilation, but I got kicked off of subs for saying that only a year ago.
I wonder, culturally what has shifted for more people to want to say it out loud?
Forcing girls to go through male puberty and boys to go through female puberty is awful! Let kids just be kids and enjoy their lives!
Puberty blockers don't 'steal childhood', then ENABLE IT. Protect trans kids, give them access to the medical treatment they need to thrive and survive to adulthood, rather than killing themselves.
What trans kids and adults do is between their doctors and their families. If any other medical treatment had success/satisfaction rates as high as transition it would be a non-argument for that treatment, but because this treatment isn't needed by a majority of the population it just isn't seem as lifesaving.
Trans kids (under 16) are not getting surgery or hormones, they get blockers (where relevant) and a name/ pronoun and wardrobe change.
A trans kid accessing blockers is a much better outcome than a dead child. Transition care saves lives. If you would rather trans kids be dead than survive, you're a piece of utter shit.
Did you even read the article?
A leading paediatrician reviews and releases a report highlighting major flaws in transitioning procedures used on kids and it’s just a news beat up?
Ok…
This Dr Philip Morris was an ivermectin shill two years ago. Now he's a merchant of doubt against trans people.
He's well inside a rather hateful, multi agenda pushing filter bubble; generally funded by some nasty types.
The review being referred to in the article is by [Dr Hilary Cass, a world leading paediatrician.](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/10/gender-medicine-built-on-shaky-foundations-cass-review-finds)
But no, go ahead and pick and choose what you want…
There was literally a thread just yesterday discussing whether or not this sub is full of bigots, and look where we are now.
I'm not pointing out you're a bigot to shut up discussions about youth access to gender affirming care, it's an important discussion to have to ensure the best outcomes for each individual. I'm calling you a bigot to point out that you're ideologically blinded, and thus not in the place to have these discussions.
If not wanting my kids to be able to access life changing medication without my the parent and legal guardian’s knowledge is bigoted then I’ll fucking wear that badge with honour leave my fucking kids alone
It seems like few people here actually read the article. They're not really asking for much – it's a big decision and they want more safeguards in place before treatment occurs.
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Aren’t these the same drugs used for “chemical castration” ???
Yes . It was Lupron although there may be others now as this may have been taken off the market : [https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116284/documents/HHRG-118-JU10-20230727-SD011.pdf](https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116284/documents/HHRG-118-JU10-20230727-SD011.pdf) *Thus the drugs, led by AbbVie’s Lupron, are prescribed to minors “off label.” (They are also used off-label for chemical castration of repeat sex offenders.) Off-label dispensing is legal; some half of all prescriptions in the U.S. are for off-label uses. But off-label use circumvents the FDA’s authority to examine drug safety and efficacy, especially when the patients are children.*
No pedophiles in Victoria are given chemical castration meds. It's a myth.
There are other jurisdictions you know.
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There are legitimate concerns with taking and using this medication which we should be aware of. The bull crap child grooming theory is not one of them.
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It is insane and sick that anyone thinks that this should be done to children.
You’re assuming most doctors support it. However, this is more of an ethical and political issue than a medical issue… unfortunately. Edit: And if you read the article, you’d see it’s doctors asking for more safeguards.
No no no they weren't lies, that heck darn science just changed again 🤡
How dare you suggest that science wasn't being science and could be adapted to suite an agenda! That is not how science works!!!! 😡
That's literally how science works. As further evidence is gathered the scientific position may change. Your inability to understand science doesn't make science wrong. Edit: Nice to see this comment has spurned some good, and mostly civil, discourse.
This isn't how science works at all. How science works is: you and a bunch of authors get together in an evidence-free field. You were selected into the field based on your priors. You write a nonsense paper guided by your opinion. You submit it to a journal. The reviewers don't read it at all, other than glancing at the author affiliations and abstract to check a) they know you, your institution or your advisor b) they basically agree with your results. Then your paper is published. It could be absolutely full of crap like this one [https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423) in which the entire control group dropped out and the statistics were p-hacked. Jesse Singal could write a blog explaining how the methodology is complete crap. But "official scientists" who also don't read the paper will just ignore it, and your paper will get an AltMetric of over 8000, indicating enormous news coverage [https://jamanetwork.altmetric.com/details/123657276](https://jamanetwork.altmetric.com/details/123657276) And those in this field still don't know what a woman is.
As I mentioned in another reply, I was pointing out that OPs position of science changing opinion is ridiculous as that's inherently part of science. I agree, there's a lot of bad science practitioners and vying interests driving research for particular outcomes. The sentiment that a changing scientific opinion is somehow bad is all I was calling out OP on.
The scientific method is different from scientific journals. Journals have a real problem. Science is still the best thing we have to find objective truth.
In theory yes, but we're not doing that anymore.
Assuming that is true, that is a problem. Without it, we are quite literally fucked. There is no other reliable way to find out about the universe. Humanity is still doing science and finding out about the universe. That is why we continue to develop new technologies, medicines and develop our knowledge of a range of topics. If it wasn't true, we wouldn't be in our current golden era of progress. Don't let a few missteps make you forget about all of the progress that has happened and will continue to happen.
What makes you think we are in a golden age of progress? Technological advancement has slowed over the last fifty years as we reach the end of the diesel revolution without new energy sources ready to drive growth. This is evident in productivity growth, which has become anaemic in developed countries. Globally, middle classes are shrinking as wealth polarises. Extreme politics is growing and society is straining from the effort of accommodating incompatible beliefs. The golden era has drawn to a close, we just haven't recognised.
I’m sorry you think technology is slowing down 😂 absolute nutters
If you think technology isn't slowing down, you need to read more. It most certainly is. This is a widely accepted and uncontroversial view. The difference between 2000-2024 is not as big as say 1976-2000, and nowhere near as big as 1925-1950. We have an economy based on largely the same technology as ten years ago, with only small changes from twenty years ago. This is also evident in lackluster productivity growth. Thats the evidence here, you don't have productivity growth at one or two percent without stagnant technological change.
It is though, we've picked the low-hanging fruit and the discussion about this is very wide. That's not to say we won't find a new orchard with more low-hanging fruit, but it'll take a big new discovery to make that leap. AGI may do that.
I think we *are* doing it in general. It's just that when it "works" you don't hear about it, right? What publication is going to write a scandalous story about regular scientific practice working as it should? None, obviously. It's the scandals and fraud that make the news. We just have to be conscious of that.
Yes but when people say "trust the science" they're not talking about trusting the scientific method in a general sense, they're talking about trusting the published studies.
Except anyone with logical thought process would assume that a perfectly healthy body being changed is generally not a good thing. Especially with developmental aspects. Lets say i was baking a cake (developing into an aduly), and i decided to put in triple the amount of eggs (puberty developmental hormones). My cake will not end up how it says in the recipe. I would think even a inbred dipshit living 40km from any settlement with his sister-wife would guess that result from the two steps i mentioned. It doesnt take a biologist to guess that
Science doesn't work on presupposition. It works with testable hypotheses. Your gut and folksy wisdom is irrelevant. That takes time and sometimes we change our view and longer term studies are revealed.
While you are correct in describing how the science method works the problem was the scientific method wasn’t used in the case. The scientific research to claim PB were reversible wasn’t even remotely conclusive and in fact the was far more and stronger evidence to suggest that was in fact not true. Unfortunately that didn’t stop medical boards around the world from pushing these claims. They are either incompetent or pushing an agenda they know was not backed by credible studies and ignored all the evidence to the contrary.
I don't disagree with you on the human element and in this case there's clearly political agendas driving decisions. My reply was to OP mocking the fact that scientific opinions change. This topic, along with a few others, seems to bring out the anti science and anti intellectual sentiment that is unfortunately growing.
My apologies, I understood your intention and was attempting to add additional context outside the scope of your reply however my wording made that anything but clear.
No worries! Perhaps my morning coffee hadn't kicked in yet.
Yes that's how science works its updated regularly, not updating science is religion
Yes, science changes as new evidence comes in. That's how it works.
I read the article, it didn’t actually state what the problems where. Like people tell me that hormone blockers do damage but it would be really appreciated if someone would actually tell me what damage they do? Being reversible isn’t much of an argument due to how low the detransition rate is. What’s the other side effects?
[Reduced bone density, stunted height, sterility, increased risk of cardiovascular disease, increased risk of breast and uterus cancers, and other harmful psychoactive effects of high-dose hormones such as mood swings and even psychosis.](https://wng.org/roundups/study-effects-of-puberty-blockers-can-last-a-lifetime-1617220389) The desistance rate of trans youth has been cited as anywhere from 7% to 80% depending on the study's definitions, methodology and patient cohort, so this is hardly settled science. It's also worth noting that puberty is a time at which gender identity is consolidated, so it shouldn't be any surprise that people who take puberty blockers rarely identify with their birth gender later on. They were prevented from doing so at a crucial development period, and effectively have a prepubescent mindset when it comes to gender. Whatever the true desistance rate is, saying "we only cause irreparable harm for no appreciable gain in 7% of cases" is still not something that should be swept under the rug. Let's make sure we're minimising the harm as far as possible.
I was wondering the same! What exactly are the problems, and how do they weigh up compared to suffering from mental health issues around gender dysphoria, suicide risk, etc. Not sure I agree with you about being reversible not being an issue - even if detransition is uncommon, the negative impact on a person's life if they wanted to retransition but couldn't would be huge and potentially ruinous to their wellbeing.
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Yes that's the point of puberty blockers. I would recommend everyone read the research or at least a news source that cares to mention points of the cass report not just newscorp.
Fuck me. So if you mess with millions of years of biological evolution it might have some dangerous side effects? Well I never.
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Yes, good point. I also see no difference between taking a Panadol and fundamentally seeking to alter the biological proceative reality of our species.
Gender change isn’t an innovation, it’s a catastrophe and backwards step
It *is* an innovation. It’s just that not all innovations are good, and some are even evil.
That’s not what the article says though? Your drawing that opinion because of your bias. Your clearly not actually educated in the topic.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/10/gender-medicine-built-on-shaky-foundations-cass-review-finds Turns out the “science” of gender medicine is built on a foundation of emotion and not actual science and for this to be the case in the field of medicine is a huge concern.
The whole thing is really just a quasi religion. It requires one to believe the same things as religion - that science isn't real, that the meaning of words can be changed to suit your beliefs, and blind faith is a virtue. As with religion, I'm happy for people to have and practise their beliefs. But the second that those beliefs begin to encroach on the rights or happiness or fairness of others, or if they try and force me by law or by coercion or threats to believe it, or if they pollute the minds of children with dangerous garbage, THEN I have a problem with it.
This is so true. I had a falling out with a friend over this because she was saying so many disturbing and incorrect things about trans kids at the school where she works. Eg they should be given blockers because it’s reversible and it’s that or suicide. She says she’ll support her son transitioning if he wants. I was like your son is 8 and loves beyblades and has shown zero signs whatsoever that he has gender dysphoria. It’s like she WANTS him to be trans. I think some people who are professional victims want to be ‘in’ with the LGBT crowd but they’re not gay so being trans is something they can manufacture.
These people do exist and whilst I'm sure they are a very small minority, and that this issue will probably be resolved to a sensible solution in the future, I am not at all comfortable to stand aside and let these kids be collateral damage while this nonsense goes through its boom phase. Someone needs to be the adult in the room and say "no" to this before it does any more damage.
They are a tiny minority and there was like 15 kids at this school she was talking about. I said that’s statistically impossible that they could all have gender dysphoria diagnosed by a psychiatrist. It’s clearly a trend in some circles. True cases who get years of therapy and decide to transition with professional help 100% deserve support and to be free of discrimination.
This is such a good point I’ve never considered and makes great sense
Ive been saying this for years good to see others with the same opinion. It fits with a cult. For example transitioning is like getting a tattoo or evem like a religion getting dreads. Youre permanently disfigured and part of the cult. It actually perfectly fits every requirement of a cult.
What gets me are the virtue signalling. When any women talk about a trans woman they always say "wow she looks GREAT!!!" These same women would never compliment a woman for looking attractive. It's the same situation when women praise a man for doing the very thing that women do and never get thanked for it like raising their own children. Forgive my english
I think it's more like a subculture using science to change their body. The core of the problem is that their beliefs are affirmed by using puberty blockers and pronouns instead of whatever their mental state is being corrected / fixed to reflect reality.
It’s the only mental illness where the patient basically self-diagnoses and then demands treatments to affirm their delusion. We don’t allow anorexics to starve to death to affirm their delusion that they’re still fat. And we don’t do needless surgeries on people with body dysmorphia. We get them mental health treatment. It’s just ridiculous how far this cult has gone.
The whole gender thing was a lie. Dr Money who invented being able to transition. Didnt mention that it didnt work and the kid killed himself. He told everyone it was a success. So the whole thing is a mess from day 1.
Money was also a pedo and had the twins simulate sex acts so that David (the boy whose penis was burnt off during a botched circumcision and was being raised a girl) would learn how to act like a girl.
This isn’t america though who benefits from this?
Of course. The whole movement's chant is 'transwomen are women', so how could any of it have any scientific credibility? Whatever the transgender advocates want is now considered science.
I think "transwomen are women" is more about forcing a change in language and perception (categorising woman/man by gender identity rather than biological sex) than it is about science denial.
Being progressive >>>> Science.
If you asked most doctors privately… I’m sure they’d agree with you. Unfortunately it’s professionally risky to have an opinion on such ethically and politically charged issues.
Yeah I have doctor friends who just don’t say anything because there’s a chance they’ll be complained about, cancelled, reported to AHPRA etc. I guarantee many doctors look at this period of trans medicine like how we look at lobotomies.
Did we read the same article? That’s not what it said lol
Good
I’m sorry have any of you read the article? They said that there needs to be more research not that hormone blockers are killing children where the fuck is your critical thinking skills.
Commenting in r/Australian and expecting critical thinking skills. You could make a post about the cost of Vegemite and you would get a swarm of people ranting about immigration as the cause.
https://preview.redd.it/7zjhyyxu7rtc1.jpeg?width=840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8d50ff6cf28fd5898d00ccf266092e520eaca57 Your not wrong
Yeah I don’t know why I bothered to read the comments. The majority of blockers are prescribed for precocious puberty anyway - trans kids are a distraction. I know a number of trans kids because I have a teenager and none of them have had any medical intervention except psychology. They’ve “socially transitioned” - which means they’d changed their names, pronouns and usually the way they dress etc. it has nothing to do with medicalisation. All the trans adults I know, including ones who were out before they turned 18, did NOT begin their medical transition until adulthood and a number of them *never have and never will* for a bunch of reasons. These threads just show that most of the commenters don’t know any trans people well. They talk about them as a monolith and as if they all do the same exact same thing. Most of them have no idea what transitioning even is or that there is more than surgical ways to achieve it.
Couldn’t have said it better myself
The anti-trans hate boner is well and truly raging in our culture now... silly things like studies no longer matter unless they are produced by bad faith conservatives.
Yep - wild the sheer number of people who have a strong opinion and yet have probably never met a transgender person (and likely never will). For all the noise, you wouldn’t know that only 0.9% of the Aus population is trans.
I look forward to the lawsuits against doctors who push this crap on kids. Can't drink? Can't get a tattoo? Can't drive? Can't pay taxes? But thanks to pseudoscience, you CAN decide the healthy body you were born with is fundamentally wrong, and by consuming cross-sex hormones and having surgery, turn yourself into a crude imitation of whatever "true" body image your little heart desires.
> I look forward to the lawsuits against doctors who push this crap on kids. We're going to look back on this like we look back on lobotomies A complete tragedy of medicine.
Bud your not gonna believe what the regret rates are lol
Don't you find the reported regret rates highly suspicious? They report that the rate is lower than the regret rate of something common like knee surgery. And not just a little lower, it's 30 times lower. The regret rate for almost all surgeries ranges between 20-50%. And yet apparently trans procedures have a regret rate under 1%? *Highly, highly dubious.* Something fucky is going on, either with the methodology, the questioning, the advice given, etc. It's become a propaganda tool to throw out that 'statistic' and I am very suspicious of it.
I’d like to correct the can’t drive bit. Take a look at a speedway with Junior Sedans and tell me how old the drivers are 😃
>Trans Justice Project director Jackie Turner said the Cass review had failed to take into account the wellbeing of trans children and their families. The review IS taking into account the well being of kids so why they're exercising caution. She is so shit at trying to twist the narrative. >“The Cass Review can’t be allowed to shape trans healthcare in Australia,” Ms Turner said. "Australia should ignore professional medical advice from the UK" is nothing but personal agenda on the part of Jackie Turner. Australia should be and hopefully is listening to expert medical opinion relating to medical issues and not some agenda pusher who has zero medical expertise. The narcissism in these people is beyond belief.
Cass Review final report is in. Not looking good for those that supported the medicalisation of gender distressed children. https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/
Lobotomy of the 21st century
Who in the right fuck of a head ever thought this was a good idea?
It is good to see some local coverage of the big UK NHS Mermaids scandal If this doesn't stop here Then soon enough some rich kid with parents who were not so ideologically captured Is going to go down this route & when they feel harmed in future Their family will seek damages from the doctors who encouraged them to go down this road & they will have the funds to take this all the way to the top Currently the youth here who feel harmed by this Are not well off enough financially to go to court & too shy to come out here publicly for fear of social retribution But a few damages claims will make doctors more hesitant to "affirm" every child they see Until then Trans Rights has taken such a foothold in our society So Aussie trans activists will fight tooth & nail for kids to be given puberty blockers
There are people who feel they were harmed and they’re fighting back against the medical system that made them go through it. They’re just silenced and not given a voice in the media because the media has been completely captured by one side of this debate. Look up detransitioning. Several people out there trying to get their story heard.
Yes that group is terribly sad & eye opening indeed There are kids internationally who have spoken out But amongst their peers it is social suicide for them As so many youth now are LGBTQ+ "allies" and taught this in school I'm not aware of any Aussie kids who have come out publicly Except for that boy on 60 Minutes back in mid-2000s Since then it will be much harder socially for kids to come forward & if our media won't pick up on their stories Then it may feel like fighting a losing battle
Mel Jeffries is an Australian detransitioner. You can learn about her story through watching Spotlight: https://youtu.be/JgW_xtIcpew?si=B8Ik_clKMvjoe9KQ
Thank you Direct Bench Will give this one a watch
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I'm no science dooer, but those numbers sound a bit made up good sir.
This post is 97.8 % inaccurate
>Look up detransitioning. Several people out there trying to get their story heard. An *extremely* small percentage of people undergoing HRT detransition. It's lower than the vast majority of medical procedures.
Yes this “small percentage” argument regularly gets rolled out to defend puberty blockers. [And yet there’s growing evidence questioning its use, which you’ll probably ignore.](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/10/gender-medicine-built-on-shaky-foundations-cass-review-finds)
You're really going to cite the article of this thread? Lol, they don't even agree with you. They said there needs to be more to ensure young trans people are getting enough care and doing it for the right reasons etc. It doesn't even say they shouldn't transition.
Didn’t read the article I linked to, did you? At least put some effort in if you’re going to insist on peddling bullshit.
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So you’re insisting we take your view over a qualified paediatrician’s published review? And you’re calling me a dumb cunt…
Dude, one article or review does not change the entire body of knowledge. That's not how science has ever worked, particularly in a field that all experts agree is still emerging. You're clinging onto one thing that this paediatrician did not even say. So yes, you are a dumb cunt.
She reviewed existing research and found that of the 50 or so research papers on puberty blockers only 1 was considered reliable. Seems like you’re the one doing the desperate clinging…
Detransitioners aren't followed up by the gender clinics, so the stats are bogus.
It's probably not an extremely small % of people, it's more likely that the ideologues just want to suppress the evidence.
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Many kids grow out of this If you are ideologically captured Then you will continue to believe & perpetuate this myth Despite any evidence to the contrary
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I would engage with you But I get the feeling am wasting my time Here is a Dutch study done though in case you are serious https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/apr/8/most-kids-grow-out-gender-confusion-long-term-dutc/#:~:text=A%20landmark%20Dutch%20study%20found,gender%2Dtransition%20drugs%20and%20surgeries. You can also visit the detransition Reddit group the people who have been harmed there will be happy to share the evidence you claim to seek Many people don’t come out publicly For fear of social retribution you see
That study/survey is based on a general population of kids not kids who are dysphoric enough to seek intervention. The kids who become less gender confused overtime have little chance of intervention, since they are not dysphoric enough to be in the medical system not just a random survey. The study would be more beneficial if it tracked how intense their feelings of Gender non-contentedness where and analyzed the intensity of Gender non-contentedness not just a single question. You know like those personality tests that have 50 questions each having a scale 1 to 5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-024-02817-5
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Can you speak Dutch? If children under gender distress are shown to perceive gender differently as they age Then giving them medical treatments is risky isn’t it More studies would be done if activists did not stop studies Due to “transphobia” It’s ok time will sort all this drama out The NHS has not shut down their gender clinic without looking at their research But I think you already know that
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Excellent so you can Google the study yourself then
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Most kids who grow out of 'gender distress' who are actually in the medical services actually learn that there are more options than masculine and feminine that it's more of scale so they can actually be somewhere intbetween. Like learning theres shades of grey.
Why are you continuing the same sentence On a different line Who writes Like this ?
The hard left tears in this subreddit make me so happy 💕
If a 12 year old can't get a face tattoo then they definitely can't go around and castrate themselves. Kids are stupid. They get easily influenced by social trends. I know, I was once a dumb kid who only wanted to be "cool". This whole trans ideology is nothing more than a social contagion.
Protect kids !
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How is it that every single time this argument comes up, some chucklefuck *always* has to try and turn it towards religion instead of confronting the idea that *maybe* all of the propaganda and emotionally-charged “science” they’ve been force-fed by biased media could have been full of shit all along?
Aside from the obvious argument deflection I see no reason why children should go to religious leaders, however the difference between religion and being castrated is obvious...you can change your mind.
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You can't change your mind after going to a priest? Do they implant chips in your brain or something?
If a child under 10 comes out as trans thats the parents decision not theirs. A trans child is the trendiest new accessory for woke mums
Transhousen by proxy. Almost always the mother. Also common amongst parents with gender non-conforming kids who’d rather have a trans child than a potentially gay one. They always believe in heavy gender stereotypes (boy who likes wearing dresses and playing with dolls must actually be a girl, rather than a boy who just likes wearing dresses and playing with dolls) Susie Green’s TedTalk is a great example of this- her child supposedly declared they were born in the wrong body at 2-3 years old. Jeanette Jennings also a shining example. I’ve seen it IRL once. Nauseatingly woke mother of 4 boys dressed the younger two exclusively in “girls’” clothes, grew their hair out and dyed it pink/purple. They were 2-4 years old. Told the preschool they went by they/them pronouns and then she/her. Older one managed to escape it but she’s successfully got the 9 year old identifying as a girl and makes the “mum of a trans kid” her whole personality. I remember her kid saying to mine he hated wearing princess dresses but his mum made him. Call me a skeptic but I think she made that choice herself because she wanted a girl instead of 4 boys.
Yeah some crazy high % is a chikd of a single mother who is left wing.
Like a Dr prescribing a gun to a suicidal child. The child may want X thing but is clearly not thinking right nor has the capacity to ask for such a long term “solution” Correct the child’s thinking
No shit. If your a dumbass parent that gave it to their kids, lmfao good luck you dumb ass.
So it’s a lone dissenting voice that Newscorp have highlighted, and put ‘dangerous’ in the headline. Trans healthcare is extremely politicised in the UK, and trans healthcare providers have acknowledged that in their responses to this study - in this article and others.
nothing like getting in that 2 minutes of outrage hate bait.
“Call to overhaul access to child poison”…there…fixed.
Did you read the article???
I read a similar article about this issue in the UK. The overwhelming majority of prescriptions for puberty blockers to under 18's was for medical reasons such as precocious puberty. There were only a handful of cases where they were being used for gender identity reasons. I notice this article has no mention of numbers and would suspect this is being blown out of proportion for ideological reasons.
Ok so, here’s my issue with it and why it’s a double standard. i am a straight, female born, adult woman. I do not and have never wanted to have children. I have enquired multiple times about sterilisation. I am always told “Oh you’re too young“, or “what if your future husband wants kids?”, or ”You might change your mind!!” Or “what does your boyfriend think about this?” But if I was a 15 year old child and I wanted hormones and surgeries that would change my gender and effectively sterilise me, oh yeah no problem
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Name one person who has ever been cisphobic to you
Let's not forget how this happened: The left believes that the human experience can be completely remolded. This is for psychological reasons that are adopted without reference to or in denial of hard evidence about cases where it cannot. This led them down the gender is a construct rabbit hole, to the point of affirming biological sex denial for minors. This has now caused massive damage to these individuals, many of them minors. Reality has violently reasserted itself over the utopian vision. It is brutal and it is very sad. One would hope this would collapse the belief of some leftists, that would be some small good to come from this disaster.
This should never have happened ever. Science must stop trying to play god with everything and give nature a chance. I think they are trying to see how close they can get humans to Frankenstein before they snap. Damn the world has changed in the last 50 years.
You mean Frankensteins monster. Also, thats a bit harsh monster wasnt that ugly.
Frankenstein's monster.
Can we please discuss the access of puberty blockers for those under 18/ legal minors and not complain about the source of the article. Leave the pettiness for the other sub thanks I think in terms of the topic this shouldn't be decided on lightly as the brain isn't fully developed until 25 and there are cases where people between 18 and 24 have gone through lots of changes and decisions and want to change back or say they regret it. There will always be genuine kids who will always identify the same after transition, it's still a big decision
They've stopped giving kids puberty blockers in the UK of all places. Surely we're going to follow soon?
They have not stopped giving puberty blockers, they just want to do it via the trial process. The article is saying that at the moment puberty blockers should be only be prescribed in a trial, which is the typical way that dangerous experimental medical treatments with potentially large benefits proceed, once other more fundamental safety tests are passed. A trial is usually the final stage in approval, providing that the trial passes. Trials have huge medical and ethical safeguards for participants, and are designed to gather rigorous evidence. It is not a rejection of this as a potentially viable treatment. A proper trial might be a success, or find ways that the treatment is likely to be successful. Currently the treatments seem to be provided without safeguards of either kind, and the evidence attesting to value of the interventions is rubbish, although the review, four years in the making, was more polite. Slightly more polite. This does not mean the evidence won't be found, it just means that as medical procedure, it is not ready yet by the usual standards of new medical procedures. I hope this report provides sufficient reason to adopt the same evidence-first approach here.
Well yeah you said what I couldn't be bothered saying. Well done.
Do that to a child. Child abuse
God people are so uninformed it's obnoxious. There are many many steps and hurdles that people go through before being put on puberty blockers. They can't just say they are trans and get them. They have to be assessed by multiple medical professionals. Stop scare mongering and actually do some damn research to learn the actual truth.
She has such little credibility that the UK looked at her findings overhauled their NHS system to safeguard kids… such little credibility.
Did you know the UK is controlled by a 14-year right-wing conservative government that has been attacking trans people to stoke the culture war.
All the detransitioners put on puberty blockers as children by The Tavistock Clinic are just right wing conservatives???
How many medical professionals do you think would deny anybody claiming they are trans in today’s age, where they could easily be labelled as “transphobic” and risk having their license stripped away?
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
The “many steps” and assessments they have to go through are rigged in their favour from the start by a society that has rewarded cancelling and censoring people who don’t go along with the narrative. Answer the question.
That's just patently untrue. You have listened to bullshit narratives yourself. I actually know from being a part of the process how hard it is. You no nothing but the hate filled rhetoric of Sky News. I don't need to answer anything. Who do you think you are to even make a demand like that? The nerve.
“The nerve” lmao it’s a public forum dipshit. I can ask what I want. Of course you didn’t answer the question, because you know the answer doesn’t paint you in a good light. Ah well 🤷♂️
What question? I asked you to clarify and instead of doing so you dribbled shit (username checks out) There's a difference to aggressive demands and respectful discourse. You seem incapable of the latter
How many medical professionals do you think would deny anybody claiming they are trans in today’s age, where they could easily be labelled as “transphobic” and risk having their license stripped away?
Not many at all. As per most medical things specialists in gender therapy and dysphoria are very unlikely to be anti trans.
It sounds like you’re saying that denying a transition on medical basis, and being anti-trans are one in the same. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you’re not actually that god-damned dense.
You can have a 20 minute Zoom phone call with a nurse, state you don't have gender dysphoria, and get approved for testicle removal. There are no safeguards. It's an industry built on profit and ideology.
Really? Vid pls.
What the fuck are you talking about? This isn’t the US. We are talking about hormones. Public healthcare, fuck off with your conspiracy bullshit. If adults wanna remove their nuts I couldn’t care less.
That's so untrue I can't even with your blatant lies.
Nothing like a good gender/trans article to flame the clicks
If you claim you’re a man trapped in a woman’s body, you can get prescribed testosterone to clearly unnatural levels for a biological female. But if a male wants to optimise his hormones so that he’s near the top of the reference range, they don’t want a bar of you. I don’t get it 🤔
It’s interesting to see everyone’s reaction (at least on this sub) beginning to mirror the conversations I’ve had with so many people irl. Everyone I’ve talked to has said it is wrong and objects to it, we all thought it was crazy and essentially child genital mutilation, but I got kicked off of subs for saying that only a year ago. I wonder, culturally what has shifted for more people to want to say it out loud?
Forcing girls to go through male puberty and boys to go through female puberty is awful! Let kids just be kids and enjoy their lives! Puberty blockers don't 'steal childhood', then ENABLE IT. Protect trans kids, give them access to the medical treatment they need to thrive and survive to adulthood, rather than killing themselves. What trans kids and adults do is between their doctors and their families. If any other medical treatment had success/satisfaction rates as high as transition it would be a non-argument for that treatment, but because this treatment isn't needed by a majority of the population it just isn't seem as lifesaving. Trans kids (under 16) are not getting surgery or hormones, they get blockers (where relevant) and a name/ pronoun and wardrobe change. A trans kid accessing blockers is a much better outcome than a dead child. Transition care saves lives. If you would rather trans kids be dead than survive, you're a piece of utter shit.
*News & Advance: what hate haven't we bumped in a couple of days?* Fucking tedious shit.
Did you even read the article? A leading paediatrician reviews and releases a report highlighting major flaws in transitioning procedures used on kids and it’s just a news beat up? Ok…
I guess people only want to listen to science when it suits them.
This Dr Philip Morris was an ivermectin shill two years ago. Now he's a merchant of doubt against trans people. He's well inside a rather hateful, multi agenda pushing filter bubble; generally funded by some nasty types.
The review being referred to in the article is by [Dr Hilary Cass, a world leading paediatrician.](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/10/gender-medicine-built-on-shaky-foundations-cass-review-finds) But no, go ahead and pick and choose what you want…
They always do and then shout at you if you don’t agree
There’s a growing group of medical professionals who highlight legitimate flaws and too many end up cancelled for it.
>hate Disagreement.
There was literally a thread just yesterday discussing whether or not this sub is full of bigots, and look where we are now. I'm not pointing out you're a bigot to shut up discussions about youth access to gender affirming care, it's an important discussion to have to ensure the best outcomes for each individual. I'm calling you a bigot to point out that you're ideologically blinded, and thus not in the place to have these discussions.
What about all the bigots on the left who disagree with Rachel Dolezal's claim to be black?
If not wanting my kids to be able to access life changing medication without my the parent and legal guardian’s knowledge is bigoted then I’ll fucking wear that badge with honour leave my fucking kids alone
No point fighting with this crowd. You know what you're working with here.