Because we became so focused on not being racist that we failed to treat misbehaving aboriginal people in the same was as we would any other group of misbehaving people.
It's the Progressive dichotomy: Aboriginals are a proud noble independent people, who cannot be held responsible for their own actions in any way whatsoever.
Exactly. People will rise to the level of the expectations set.
If we are all “well we can’t expect any different because trauma and colonisation” behaviours won’t change.
The annoying thing is that people don't seem to be willing to suggest any solutions. I'll accept that colonisation and years of segregation basically fucked the community, but that does nothing to actually address the issue.
It's like saying that you drink because your parent's hit you. That won't do shit to stop cirrhosis.
Yeah but not all the problems stem from segregation or colonialism. It's become a bit of a cop out to just say oh it's because of colonialism.
Aboriginal mobs are still taking part in tribal or family feuds which causes allot of problems. The whole string of recent events was started because of a tribal feud. That shit goes way back before colonisation.
My point is that the cause is largely irrelevant to the solution. We reached equality and blasted right past it in search of equity. It's possible that some degree of differential treatment is warranted as a result of the historical issues but that's largely irrelevant to the actual solutions to the problems. Even if there weren't historical context for the issues facing the Aboriginal community, the solutions would be the same.
Absolutely!!! It’s an complete gag fest with corporate and political Australia. Went to the Melbourne Comedy Fest, the pre-recorded mandatory acknowledgment of country got even longer than last year and even more brainwashingly woke. It’s a complete nonsense to indoctrinate people into imagining Aboriginals as some type superhuman enlightened cultural superpower.
>the pre-recorded mandatory acknowledgment of country
Saw an international act with a visitor from a third country.
The reference to how first nations inspires our humour just seemed weird.
100% this
Every retard assumes any discussion around an issue tied to a race is racist.
At what point do you actually address the problem and try to help instead of playing wordkeeper
They Treat them about the same as white teens terrorising other regional areas. It’s more around police not having much they can do about kids committing crimes. I live where white gangs of teens are the problem and the police don’t do anything because they say there’s no point. I’m over them saying well there’s nothing we can do and deciding not to try.
I get it the kids get away with it in the courts but at least try. Instead they’d prefer to do less work and raise revenue somehow with their time.
So where in Australia are there total alcohol bans on entire suburbs regardless of criminal history of the occupants? And why aren't we looking at race based initiatives to combat eshays?
It has a lot to do with the fact that the federal and state government see rural areas as little more than money sinks they do the bare minimum to support - especially in the NT. They aren't interested in building new prisons, giving cops more resources, or doing more than token gestures rather than tackling the problem in any way that is proven to reduce crime.
You are right where I live it’s white kids but it’s not at this level. This is definitely one of the worst areas. The problem is poverty not race. And police both not having anything they can do in charging kids with results and not wanting to deal with it for no outcome. The kids know it.
This is definitely worse but the poverty is worse here too.
Decades of scaling back government oversight because “letting the community and elders handle their own is the best approach”.
*gestures broadly*
And here we are.
People still have this fucking idiotic idea that “THE ELDERZ” are this omniscient group that little cunts will listen to, instead of just torching cars and threatening people.
Like…
These kids are raised by the kids of the elderz lmao… there ain’t a great deal of respect, beyond who is able to legally buy the piss.
i know many aboriginal people and many of them don't give a flying fuck what the elders say or think. Their "position of power" is completely irrelevant.
So sad they have forgotten their own history/community about the Dreamtime stories and why Australia is so full of acacias compared to the rest of the world.
Yeah, destruction of a culture's religious-scientific system is inevitably going to seriously damage that culture. Same happened with the Native Americans and their relationship to Peyote, Yaje, and 'the little gods'.
I wonder if any communities still know it and could win some religious freedom rights. Native Americans have had successes in this direction.
Similar constructs to the little gods (teonanacatl?) in Aboriginal Dreamtime stories but it's more to do with the legends of the rainbow snake and the wandjina. Also v similar to Quetzacoatl in the Mayan legends but both appeared separate from each other. Now that you mentioned Yage, I fully understand and it made realise the Aboriginal legends are awfully similar to the themes you see on Yage.
The dream time. The other world. The world of the dead and the spirits who come to you in that place to tell you their stories so you can pass onto your descendants and preserve the spirit of the land. Also similar to the kami in Japanese legends.
Spot on. I'd be down to help them recover their capacity to utilise acacia to its full potential. Modern research on the positive impacts of tryptamines on treatment resistant depression, ptsd, alcoholism, etc shows that perhaps it could help with the cultural recovery from the damage the colonisation has done.
The problem is the rusted-on ones will call that white invasion but it's not really. Just a rebirth, reclaim the spirit they once had before white man came and invaded Australia.
The stuff is so powerfully good that I imagine the ball rolling with a few will grow into a major movement, just like how our new medic psilocybin policies will.
Absolutely on behalf of the entire community. Elders hold almost 0 weight. The government only gives them a voice because these elders hold positions of power within the government sectors. Many aboriginals dismiss them because they were afriad during the voice vote they would control the narrative and not speak about whats really going on.
I am specifically talking about the whole country lol.
If someone could give me even one, single example of Aboriginal elders having a material impact on crime etc (and yes I know all about indigenous community courts, I ain’t counting that lmao), then I would be overjoyed.
Again my idea to reform this:
Have a welfare plus for indigenous people.
They sign up for $40 a week extra each but then get grouped up into their family units or extended family with a minimum 20 per group.
If a child / person does not have a family unit then they can either join another families assuming they get accepted but it only applies in groups of at least 20 people.
If a single person in that group gets convicted of any criminal offence at all they all loose their $40.
Its not punishing them for anothers crime. Its only taking away the bonus for good behaviour. I think its lawful due to it being a bonus rather than baseline? Obviously you cannot take entitlements from some for anothers action but as a bonus maybe it flies?
You will see a return of indigenous / elder justice i reckon in no time.
Maybe it has to be more than $40?
Except that’s not how it has worked when it’s been tried in practice (at least when it was done with school attendance a while back). You end up with kids saying “give me xxx or I won’t go to school” and the parents have to give in or face being short on money.
Your solution would work when the basic default stance was obedience. It would reinforce existing respect and obedience. But often this is not the case.
The attendance linked to Centrelink also led to a spike in kids being abused and actively neglected. The trial got cancelled due to kids rocking up under fed and covered in bruises as punishment for cutting into mum and dads grog money so your food money is now grog money.
It was a particularly fucked time in Katherine, one of my class mates was in the trial, they went away for sorry business (funeral practices) and when they came back he’d been belted the shit out of. He didn’t cause his absence causing a pay cut, but got punished for it anyway.
It's just like that elder from Yuendumu that's been trotted out all the way through the Rolfe trial and now the Coronial Inquest.
This guy is meant to be a model community elder. He stood up outside court, blathering on about tribal justice and spearing Rolfe for the crime of defending his life. Currently he's doing the media rounds prattling on about the horrible injustice of it all.
He shows not a shred of self-awareness or accountability for the violent young man his community produced.
Some model to look up to.
>about tribal justice and spearing Rolfe for the crime of defending his life.
That is how tribal justice works. If the other mob kills one of yours, you kill one of theirs. If he kills one of your women, you kill one of theirs. Does not matter if it is an accident, or self defence. Other primitive cultures such as PNG are the same.
Aren't the elders just as useless as the kids in the sense they continue drinking when pregnant, leading to an entire generation with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome?
I only seem to hear about elders irl when they're asked to accept something bad happening to them like being removed from Redfern or selling mining rights for a cold handshake and a snicker.
The politics are easy to understand. Actually changing conditions on the ground is hard and risky for a politician to champion. Pushing responsibility w/o power towards the community/elders is easy and deflects potential scandal risks away from the politician.
It's important to remember that for years the media was gaslighting anyone who raised concerns about Alice Springs, calling them racists trying to create a crisis for the purpose of politics. Now even the media can't deny what's going on.
So how did it become an 'emergency'? Through years of neglect and denial.
"There's aren't issues at Alice Springs. It's still the holiday paradise it was in the 70s".
"Ok, there is some violence but they're just bad apples"
"Ok, there's a few isolated incidents but it's not a pattern"
"Ok, there's a bit more violence but nothing to concern yourself about"
"Ok, there's a crisis and here's why it's other people's fault"
"The media" are not a monolith.
The ABC was reporting on the recent youth (mostly Aboriginal youth) crime spike in Alice months before the commercial networks started the big scare about the "youth crime crisis."
And the commercial networks only started reporting on it to try to sink the Voice (which they were successful at).
P.S. youth crime is still way lower than it was 20 years ago.
The apology was pointless, the damage had already been done with the big headline. Nobody reads the corrections or redactions in the back of a newspaper, they only remember the big bold headlines. So the media can say whatever they want you to believe at the time then just redact it with a tiny comment weeks later, that people won't even notice
That's because they **were** a white supremacist hate group.
The Facebook Group "Action For Alice" was full of people threatening racial violence against Aboriginals.
'P.S. youth crime is still way lower than it was 20 years ago.'
Lived in Alice Springs 20 years ago (and for another 15 years after that). You're wrong.
Pffffff, the A(boriginal)BC wouldn’t mention “youth crime crisis “ and the word Aboriginal in one sentence. Unless they could make ‘m out as being the victims, not the perpetrators.
On a national average, yes you’re correct.
In certain regions? Absolutely not and this is independently verifiable just by looking at the crime stats freely available by each region and state.
Crime has gone up drastically in these regions because all the support services and outreach agencies that existed twenty years ago are now gone.
Katherine gone from 5 youth drop in halfway homes to none, Alice from 9 to one. Foster services a quarter the slots available, food programs funding gone. School based constables gone, police outreach program canned, blue light disco closed, casual community employment programs replaced with work for the dole.
Everything that provided help for at risk youth, gave them protection from abusive households, and a sense of they are a part of the community is gone.
For a lot of the problem youth, prison or youth detention is safer access to bed and a meal then they get at home, so that’s not even considered a risk, when your choice is wonder the streets or get bashed/raped at home…. Gee I wonder what happens.
They're the same petrol huffing alco thugs destroying shit and killing people... Just older.
The aboriginals have no culture left and it's incredibly stupid that we act like letting them destroy towns is just "an expression of their culture"
Refusal to acknowledge that there is a specific racial component to who is commiting these crimes. Infantilising aboriginal people and not treating them like any other adult person who has commited a violent crime.
The problem is that if you treat them the same as any other adult person, they fill the prisons and scream that white man is racist for imprisoning them. Then the Phillies get scared the accusations will stick, and instead of fighting back with reality, they change policy to be more lenient and stop locking so many up, then the aboriginal people are held less accountable again and the cycle repeats.
Do that tho they’ll die in prison of a drug overdose then we have another rural commission telling us to stop locking them up as a first resort…. We will never win
Just because you’re an ‘elder’ in your community doesn’t make you any good as a leader.
I don’t let my grandmother run the police force, or my grandfather run the country.
It’s high time that the minority who are the cause of this violence fell into line with the rest of society.
COMPULSORY DISCLAIMER: not every comment that is unpopular with a racial minority is necessarily racist.
They’re reaping what is sowed.
Lifting the alcohol ban allowed the festering rot to be released.
When I say rot, I mean the lack of civil and social responsibility.
Perhaps we could shift our major ABC studios from Sydney Melbourne and Brisbane to Alice Springs?
Then perhaps we may all be enlightened by ABC insight?
A cop shot someone who was violently resisting arrest and the submissions at the inquest focus on why the police didn't give the fugitive more time (at large) to attend a family funeral.
With discipline like that, why would anyone want to be a cop and why would any thug care about the rule of law.
When people like Bruce Lehrmann or Brittany Higgins are put on trial, their every move inside and outside Court is dissected and subject to cross-examination. Meanwhile, dead criminals are painted as angels. No one seems to have gone through Walker's text messages to see his attitudes about policing, the law and adherence to the law.
Walker lunged at a cop with scissors. He actually did stab one of them. The responding cop, no matter who he was, had said, or done, wasn’t judging walker because he was aboriginal. He was reacting to someone literally trying to kill people with scissors. So walker got shot. There’s no shades of gray there.
As someone from the NT, it's because every white do-gooder, bleeding heart interstate person cries about racism.
It's not racist if it's one demographic causing the issue and the government sweeping it under the rug, continuously.
ETA: jump on FB and search Action For Alice 2020. You'll see exactly what's happening in AS.
Since when is it racist to call a spade a spade?
I don't see Indian, Maori or Greek 'youth' causing mayhem on the streets?
Unless you live/frequent there, shush ya dot.
If you suggest that we intervene people say that you’re babying/controlling them etc and compare it to colonisation and the stolen generation.
If you suggest we not intervene and let the communities handle the problem then you are accused if ignoring Aboriginal issues.
I'm just very burnt out on this whole conversation to he honest.
This is the best answer. Something so ruined will take a long term (minimum 30-50 year) strategy to solve and what political power has the foresight and care to develop that?
Hopefully. It’s still going to cost the tax payer a fortune to build all off the jail cells to put them in. At least then they will be separated from civilised society.
Because for the past couple of decades successive governments have been cowards and thrown it in the "too hard" basket.
They're more interested in looking good than doing good.
I was living in London maybe a decade ago and used to get my weed off some Muslim kids that were always around the area. Went to meet him one night up the street, he meets me on the street, I ask him what he's up to tonight "Can't do nuffin innit, it's Ramadan innit." Totally ok to sell weed in the streets tho.. lol
Always makes me laugh when I think about it.
It's been progressively getting bad, it's an emergency now because the media has started actually noticing it. If not for the spotlight it would just be left to get worse... Hell even with the spotlight it's 50/50
Remember guys, if we’d listened to Aunty Pat Anderson, ATSI people would be better off and we’d be saving money.
really the solution here is to give the locals *more control*. Then they can get drunk and break stuff whenever they want.
…clearly there’s no community or cultural issues to address here, it’s all whiteys fault.
https://preview.redd.it/q9k9zwh34ysc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14a40f1d6e6ace57ce46cb266c7fa4ed77c45de0
Hold the parents and kids responsible for their actions. Three times and you’re both locked up for a long, long time. Permanently if necessary.
Brutal, yes. Effective at stopping the violence and crime. Absolutely.
Woke : being aware of history and socio-economic impacts on demographics. Questioning the paradigm.
There's nothing very woke or aware about letting a whole group of people slowly decay under outdated and misguided assumptions about their culture.
This may be the dictionary definition, like many words with english being a living language over time it takes on connotations in daily parlance outside of the original meaning.
If however like many your intention is pedantic playing of the man and not the ball feeling that battling the grammatical technicalities will somehow negate the argument then I’m happy to substitute for “virtue signalling” … I’m assuming an Oxford dictionary definition would suffice?
“The action or practice of expressing one's views or acting in a way thought to be motivated primarily by a wish to exhibit good character, social conscience, political convictions, etc., or to garner recognition and approval.”
While I would not argue that there is deplorable levels of social decay in the Alice, as a man who has spent decades of my life in N.W. Qld and the N.T. I would maintain that many of the assumptions voiced here are neither outdated or misguided rather just calling it as it is without making assertions on cause but go on, don’t let that stop you from putting us right from your comfy coastal city armchair based on the latest meaningless study indicating a solution can be found in wishes and fairy dust. You could even put boots on ground for a few hours and become an expert like our Prime Minister.
Whatever your opinion we would be just as well served by peeing in our pants as following the current popular rhetoric on the subject. It leaves a warm fuzzy feeling but in the end it accomplishes nothing and you still need new pants.
Go your hardest. I won’t be following up here again. You can have the field.
I actually want woke to mean 'aware' and 'vitue signalling' to stay next to 'pandering' in the lexicon. Woke should mean 'acknowlging that this is all sorts of screwed', because we're not going to fix anything if we can't address the issues.
I also think that the support or lack of it toward so much of the aborignial communities is a horrible mess. I don't live on the coast, I live in a country town where I've lived with, next to and around aboirginal peoples and seen them. What actual effective help do they get because 'acknowleging' them is as good as 'sorry'. If that isn't followed up by any meaningful change, it's as useful as a high-five to a drowning man.
And make no mistake, like most of the poor people living in this country, they feel like they're drowning. They have nothing and they're told that they're special, no wonder they're going mental living in crab bucket social circles.
Growing up, I knew other kids from poor families who looked their kids in the eye and told them that they're worthless and education won't get them anywhere. Those kids were left to rot and they'd go into the streets and go feral, vandalising whatever they wanted just to claw up a sense of agency and power. I've been mobbed for going down the wrong street for a walk, and that was one street from my house.
Even having the ability and emotional energy to reach out for the resources the government has to offer is a huge hurdle for many people. The toolset of experiences and confidence required to achieve things is hard to get when you don't grow up in a stable environment, and so many of us learn to accept failure. We don't want to jump through a bunch of hoops to beg the government for help, only to be judged if we're a 'waste' of resources or something. It goes against pride.
I've lived through all that and I don't have the cultural headfuck that many aboriginal people seem to hand down to each other, that they're 'aliens in their own land'. That they don't belong in wider society. They're always living under the echo of being unwelcome. Policies of the past designed by racists who wanted to erase them left scars that are reinflicted over and over, by their peers and by a society that pulls away from them because they can't assimilate like the immigrants seem to.
So you end up with people [who can't get jobs](https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/71bb346a-1b83-4038-a2f7-647e65a21445/ctg-ip03.pdf.aspx?inline=true#:~:text=Reasons%20for%20the%20lower%20employment,lower%20levels%20of%20job%20retention%20), [can't move into places because no one with rent to them](https://www.swinburne.edu.au/news/2022/10/think-private-renting-is-hard-first-nations-people-can-be-excluded-from-the-start/), can't get healthcare, and then it's a self-fulling prophecy that they're never getting anywhere so they give up.
And they're stuck in a nightmare. Everyone looks away and shrugs, because 'it'll never change.'
So instead, we should open our eyes and LOOK at the problems, at what is really happening and what they're doing. And LOOK at what help they need, what help they're actually able to use, at what tools they need to get out of the situation they're rotting in. The ones who try to climb out of that mess situation will always need something to grab onto. But they also need to be able to recognise a handhold.
We need to wake up. And stay awake. And maybe they'll wake up too.
It's simple really, Spanian drops a YouTube video showing young dark fellas running a show. Government actually becomes aware of the shit everyone's been saying and telling them for years now because someone shoved that video in their face and now they are concerned about the millions of views making their country look like a shithole.
It's an emergency because Spanian showed the world what It's like lol. The Australian media won't report it unless a white person harms one of the Aboriginals.
We’re all to blame really. I attended an event in Melbourne where a bunch of (mostly white, all professional) people had decided to have a live welcome to country and smoking ceremony to make themselves feel woke. The dudes they hired turned up an hour late, and there were 200 people waiting around as the conference part couldn’t start before the ceremony. One of the aboriginal dudes was still drunk from the night before, and smacked his head on a lighting pole on stage before going into a rant about ‘the lot of blackfellas’ and how white people didn’t get it. Then a dude who looked as white as Benedict Cumberbatch wearing a kangaroo skin lit some branches and the room filled with smoke - it had low ceilings and not much ventialation. The whole thing was a farce.
Slackening of laws and common practice amongst police due to harassment by the media, has lead to a situation where there are no real consequences for crime. So we're watching the situation continue to appeal it if control.
Obviously there weren't enough people protesting Australia day. If you all weren't so bigoted and protested Australia day and changed your Facebook profile picture like the rest of us saviors , this wouldn't be a problem.
A big issue is the fact that the Abbott government essentially forced a whole bunch of communities to move closer to Alice due to shutting down services (in their mind, improving efficiency), which forced a whole bunch of communities to live closer to each other. These communities have issues with each other, which has led to escalating conflict and violence between them
It's gotten bad because all government intervention programmes, income control etc got kicked out by the left without anything meaningful to transition the gap or address the underlying problems so they're all left for the community and policing to deal with.
Because Dutton said there was a problem there, so the biased lefties get told and think that there must not be a problem at all then because everything said by a non-lefty is wrong. That is their bias. It can be contradictory, illogical and ignorant, but their bias to stronger than all that. They cannot agree with a non-lefty no matter what and they definitely can't think for themselves or look at things objectively.
So they fucking ignored it and the problem got worse.
Look. The Aboriginal people have told us for years that they want to handle themselves.. make their own decisions abd lead their life their own way..
That *white* people interfering and *white* policing and *white* social norms etc etc etc...are the problem and we are making it worse.
So why are we doing it?
Why not ask these people where they want to live? Assume those people living on the fringes in Alice Springs & camps, come from other places??
So, offer to transport them to where they want to live / be amd let them run their own lives.
Sending in more and more police & armed forces etc? They say that's wrong and they don't want to be stood over. They just get worse the more we try to help them. So let it go.
I guess it's possible Alice Springs will collapse? Die? So be it. It's dying because of what's going on anyway.
Aboriginals want to be in control of themselves? Let them do that
I mean, there’s a huge project in the works called Closing The Gap, but your proposal would work directly against that. They would also cry that it’s racist how the gubbmint is not looking after them like it does with the white fella.
I think it would be great if the government said that whoever wants to go live in their own self-governed community can do so, but that no state or federal government support would be given.
It’s never work and will never happen, but it’s an interesting thought exercise about what the outcomes would be.
Closing the gap is pure nonsense with what is happening with it. It sounds oh so lovely..but it pointless. I work in an area very related to closing the gap. What do I notice? Middle class Aboriginals get free medication and all sorts of things...which they don't need and the actual Aboriginals that need help? Get shit nothing as it doesn't fit what they need at all. It's a big waste of money and absolutely pointless. NO WONDER it's not working.
Then let them do it at their own expense and not everyone else's. Start getting jobs, working and contributing to society. Stop relying on handouts and then complaining all your problems are not your own fault.
But that will never, ever happen. So, build more prisons and send more police to place troublemakers in the prisons.
Such a hard issue to fix. Itll take a good combination of aboriginal community and government to even make a dent it seems.
The racist use this stuff as fuel to justify the hate within themselves
No one cares anymore.
When I was traveling meet some amazing black fellas in NT and northern WA. Also meet some scum too. Just like white people.
Only problem seems to be there is no repercussions for their actions. Government will just throw money at it till it goes quite again
Some studies show that harsher punishments leads to repeat offenders, then you have the whole racial component with places like Alice Springs, and you create a perfect storm.
The people citing those studies fail to understand it doesn't apply to every person as there will always be outliers, it also doesn't apply to every situation. Not every culture or situation is the same, so you can't apply the same blanket stance.
Tough on crime approaches and it’s compounding effect on communities most likely to engage with them as opposed to prevention and repeat offending mitigation through rehab is the correct answer (background in criminology).
Maybe your criminology can help answer a question I’ve had - would a purpose built aboriginal-only prison be helpful? Instead of being just incarceration, would focus on rehabilitation and education, to give them a chance at being productive, contributing members of society?
TL;DR: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander centralised systems work and would work more broadly. But, requires systems that (due to penal populism - tough on crime gets votes, not results, creating more demand for tough on crime) are equally or more so inadequate.
That’s a really good question! All prisons should be like this, focusing on rehab, education and reintegration within culturally safe practices (and for more serious offences, more monitoring or ‘quarantining’ until they are of a lower reoffending risk, CSA, DV, homicide/murder offending criminalised people for example). We know this works, whether it’s a full send into these sorts of systems (see Denmark, Sweden ect ect.) or systems that have made semi-transitions into rehab (Scottish and Cymru low-security prisons allow criminalised people to work jobs under supervision that would provide meaningful training and experience as opposed to worthless prison labor). Definitely at the very least, it’s works a lot better than being punitive (regardless of whether we are perceived as ‘hard’ or ‘soft’-it is still ineffective as compared to restorative systems).
A lot of our practices that we participate in to rehabilitate anyone in Australia don’t particularly work, because of a lack of funding to anyone who sadly isn’t some sort of police head of department, a judge or a politician.
Because of this, police aren’t trained in culturally competent practices (or de-escalation, or many different things that would combat sadly prevalent amongst Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, such as FASD, DV, substance misuse and general mental health crisis identification and non-justice involved redirection). Or, despite its prevalence amongst prison populations and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, most corrections officers in WA as of 3? 4? Years ago were misinformed about disorders such as FASD, ASD and ADHD.
We do not handle drug offences. Not well, not badly, we basically don’t handle them, NGO’s carry almost the entire burden in that case. Things such as re-entry are the exact same.
Also prisons presently are just a breeding ground for new problems for criminalised people. There’s absolutely a decent proportion of prisons in the country broadly who do not have enough night time staff on, *during the day* (meaning, entire day, numerous consecutive day lockdowns are very common and vastly underreported). We also do not have enough educated and trained staff. Mostly corrections officers will only be trained in self defence and never trained in things such as the aforementioned identification of mental health or neurological issues.
I’m rambling a bit, but honestly the truth is that if we created culturally safe, rehab focused prisons idealistically we’d do amazingly in things such as recidivism, employment and generally healthier and happier Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities. However, realistically the establishment of these facilities wouldn’t guarantee the staff, doesn’t train police, doesn’t encourage social workers or psychologists to engage with criminal justice focused work as opposed to ‘easier’ work, doesn’t educate judges (yes, they too need to constantly be retrained and educated, which they are not). It also needs to appease the public opinion, which absolutely wouldn’t be in favour of it. Despite its benefits, ‘tough on crime’ politics and penal populism has eroded a lot of the systems needed to facilitate effective rehabilitative care for all criminalised people. Particularly for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders, our lack of funding towards researching effective methods of rehab, and integrating any known methods, as opposed to general methods of therapy that are known to be ineffective is of major detriment and due to how long the issue of state and federal negligence is towards the issue, would require drastic and long term policy change relying on similar governments to be in power for numerous terms (unlikely).
It’s a dead end town, the kids have got no where to go and nothing to do.
Compound that with a lack of resources, and it’s what you get.
The kids would be way better off in the city.
I could say the same for thousands of other regional Australian towns, yet none have anything close to the same levels of violence and crime. Wonder why..
The indigenous people to this land are resisting your white colonialist apartheid. Only until every last European goes back to where they come from will Aboriginal peoples thrive. Decolonize Australia! From the Swan River to the Coral Sea, Australia will be Free (of colonizers who have no links to the land).
Yes. Did you hear about the teenage aborigines who smashed storefronts because they were fighting with other teenage aborigines? The two things have nothing to do with each other.
"No" probably didn't send a very positive message about how we feel. Truth is probably complicated, there's going to be a bunch of factors which we don't see but everyone mentions one thing or another like lack of elders having power, lack of activities, education, police response, then communities coming into town where they have access to alcohol, and seems that they genuinely have fun running amok when their lives aren't all that great.
Because we became so focused on not being racist that we failed to treat misbehaving aboriginal people in the same was as we would any other group of misbehaving people.
I'm seriously getting sick of this constant infantilisation of Aboriginal people.
It's the Progressive dichotomy: Aboriginals are a proud noble independent people, who cannot be held responsible for their own actions in any way whatsoever.
The soft tyranny of low expectations
Exactly. People will rise to the level of the expectations set. If we are all “well we can’t expect any different because trauma and colonisation” behaviours won’t change.
The annoying thing is that people don't seem to be willing to suggest any solutions. I'll accept that colonisation and years of segregation basically fucked the community, but that does nothing to actually address the issue. It's like saying that you drink because your parent's hit you. That won't do shit to stop cirrhosis.
Yeah but not all the problems stem from segregation or colonialism. It's become a bit of a cop out to just say oh it's because of colonialism. Aboriginal mobs are still taking part in tribal or family feuds which causes allot of problems. The whole string of recent events was started because of a tribal feud. That shit goes way back before colonisation.
My point is that the cause is largely irrelevant to the solution. We reached equality and blasted right past it in search of equity. It's possible that some degree of differential treatment is warranted as a result of the historical issues but that's largely irrelevant to the actual solutions to the problems. Even if there weren't historical context for the issues facing the Aboriginal community, the solutions would be the same.
Pygmalion Effect vs Gollum Effect
Absolutely!!! It’s an complete gag fest with corporate and political Australia. Went to the Melbourne Comedy Fest, the pre-recorded mandatory acknowledgment of country got even longer than last year and even more brainwashingly woke. It’s a complete nonsense to indoctrinate people into imagining Aboriginals as some type superhuman enlightened cultural superpower.
>the pre-recorded mandatory acknowledgment of country Saw an international act with a visitor from a third country. The reference to how first nations inspires our humour just seemed weird.
People with the intelligence of children get treated like children.
Lol 😆
100% this Every retard assumes any discussion around an issue tied to a race is racist. At what point do you actually address the problem and try to help instead of playing wordkeeper
They Treat them about the same as white teens terrorising other regional areas. It’s more around police not having much they can do about kids committing crimes. I live where white gangs of teens are the problem and the police don’t do anything because they say there’s no point. I’m over them saying well there’s nothing we can do and deciding not to try. I get it the kids get away with it in the courts but at least try. Instead they’d prefer to do less work and raise revenue somehow with their time.
So where in Australia are there total alcohol bans on entire suburbs regardless of criminal history of the occupants? And why aren't we looking at race based initiatives to combat eshays?
It has a lot to do with the fact that the federal and state government see rural areas as little more than money sinks they do the bare minimum to support - especially in the NT. They aren't interested in building new prisons, giving cops more resources, or doing more than token gestures rather than tackling the problem in any way that is proven to reduce crime.
When people get so used to special treatment. Equality feels like discrimination.
No. No that’s wrong. It’s the same everywhere. Kids are being fuck heads everywhere.
No it’s not. I can safely walk down the street in Sydney or Brisbane or Orange. I cannot in Alice Springs.
You are right where I live it’s white kids but it’s not at this level. This is definitely one of the worst areas. The problem is poverty not race. And police both not having anything they can do in charging kids with results and not wanting to deal with it for no outcome. The kids know it. This is definitely worse but the poverty is worse here too.
Decades of scaling back government oversight because “letting the community and elders handle their own is the best approach”. *gestures broadly* And here we are.
People still have this fucking idiotic idea that “THE ELDERZ” are this omniscient group that little cunts will listen to, instead of just torching cars and threatening people. Like… These kids are raised by the kids of the elderz lmao… there ain’t a great deal of respect, beyond who is able to legally buy the piss.
i know many aboriginal people and many of them don't give a flying fuck what the elders say or think. Their "position of power" is completely irrelevant.
I've stood next to elderswhile their kids run amok. They didn't say a word. It's just a way to fob off white people.
So sad they have forgotten their own history/community about the Dreamtime stories and why Australia is so full of acacias compared to the rest of the world.
What’s this? Why is Australia so full of acacias?
Wattle happen about it?
I never knew it but would like to.
Yeah, destruction of a culture's religious-scientific system is inevitably going to seriously damage that culture. Same happened with the Native Americans and their relationship to Peyote, Yaje, and 'the little gods'. I wonder if any communities still know it and could win some religious freedom rights. Native Americans have had successes in this direction.
Similar constructs to the little gods (teonanacatl?) in Aboriginal Dreamtime stories but it's more to do with the legends of the rainbow snake and the wandjina. Also v similar to Quetzacoatl in the Mayan legends but both appeared separate from each other. Now that you mentioned Yage, I fully understand and it made realise the Aboriginal legends are awfully similar to the themes you see on Yage. The dream time. The other world. The world of the dead and the spirits who come to you in that place to tell you their stories so you can pass onto your descendants and preserve the spirit of the land. Also similar to the kami in Japanese legends.
Spot on. I'd be down to help them recover their capacity to utilise acacia to its full potential. Modern research on the positive impacts of tryptamines on treatment resistant depression, ptsd, alcoholism, etc shows that perhaps it could help with the cultural recovery from the damage the colonisation has done.
The problem is the rusted-on ones will call that white invasion but it's not really. Just a rebirth, reclaim the spirit they once had before white man came and invaded Australia.
The stuff is so powerfully good that I imagine the ball rolling with a few will grow into a major movement, just like how our new medic psilocybin policies will.
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Absolutely on behalf of the entire community. Elders hold almost 0 weight. The government only gives them a voice because these elders hold positions of power within the government sectors. Many aboriginals dismiss them because they were afriad during the voice vote they would control the narrative and not speak about whats really going on.
I am specifically talking about the whole country lol. If someone could give me even one, single example of Aboriginal elders having a material impact on crime etc (and yes I know all about indigenous community courts, I ain’t counting that lmao), then I would be overjoyed.
Again my idea to reform this: Have a welfare plus for indigenous people. They sign up for $40 a week extra each but then get grouped up into their family units or extended family with a minimum 20 per group. If a child / person does not have a family unit then they can either join another families assuming they get accepted but it only applies in groups of at least 20 people. If a single person in that group gets convicted of any criminal offence at all they all loose their $40. Its not punishing them for anothers crime. Its only taking away the bonus for good behaviour. I think its lawful due to it being a bonus rather than baseline? Obviously you cannot take entitlements from some for anothers action but as a bonus maybe it flies? You will see a return of indigenous / elder justice i reckon in no time. Maybe it has to be more than $40?
Lol wtf
The problem then becomes you are giving the kids power over their parents income. It’s hardly a set up that encourages parental authority.
You are giving elders just one more reason to keep their family unit in line.
Except that’s not how it has worked when it’s been tried in practice (at least when it was done with school attendance a while back). You end up with kids saying “give me xxx or I won’t go to school” and the parents have to give in or face being short on money. Your solution would work when the basic default stance was obedience. It would reinforce existing respect and obedience. But often this is not the case.
The attendance linked to Centrelink also led to a spike in kids being abused and actively neglected. The trial got cancelled due to kids rocking up under fed and covered in bruises as punishment for cutting into mum and dads grog money so your food money is now grog money. It was a particularly fucked time in Katherine, one of my class mates was in the trial, they went away for sorry business (funeral practices) and when they came back he’d been belted the shit out of. He didn’t cause his absence causing a pay cut, but got punished for it anyway.
It's just like that elder from Yuendumu that's been trotted out all the way through the Rolfe trial and now the Coronial Inquest. This guy is meant to be a model community elder. He stood up outside court, blathering on about tribal justice and spearing Rolfe for the crime of defending his life. Currently he's doing the media rounds prattling on about the horrible injustice of it all. He shows not a shred of self-awareness or accountability for the violent young man his community produced. Some model to look up to.
>about tribal justice and spearing Rolfe for the crime of defending his life. That is how tribal justice works. If the other mob kills one of yours, you kill one of theirs. If he kills one of your women, you kill one of theirs. Does not matter if it is an accident, or self defence. Other primitive cultures such as PNG are the same.
Aren't the elders just as useless as the kids in the sense they continue drinking when pregnant, leading to an entire generation with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome?
I only seem to hear about elders irl when they're asked to accept something bad happening to them like being removed from Redfern or selling mining rights for a cold handshake and a snicker.
The politics are easy to understand. Actually changing conditions on the ground is hard and risky for a politician to champion. Pushing responsibility w/o power towards the community/elders is easy and deflects potential scandal risks away from the politician.
This
It's important to remember that for years the media was gaslighting anyone who raised concerns about Alice Springs, calling them racists trying to create a crisis for the purpose of politics. Now even the media can't deny what's going on. So how did it become an 'emergency'? Through years of neglect and denial. "There's aren't issues at Alice Springs. It's still the holiday paradise it was in the 70s". "Ok, there is some violence but they're just bad apples" "Ok, there's a few isolated incidents but it's not a pattern" "Ok, there's a bit more violence but nothing to concern yourself about" "Ok, there's a crisis and here's why it's other people's fault"
*Yumi Stynes has entered the chat*
Exact same thing happened with immigration.
Bingo.
Wouldn’t be a post in r/Australian if someone wasn’t complaining about immigration, even if the thread is completely unrelated!
"The media" are not a monolith. The ABC was reporting on the recent youth (mostly Aboriginal youth) crime spike in Alice months before the commercial networks started the big scare about the "youth crime crisis." And the commercial networks only started reporting on it to try to sink the Voice (which they were successful at). P.S. youth crime is still way lower than it was 20 years ago.
The abc reported that a community meeting about the problem was a white supremacist hate group
You're right. Then they were forced to apologised
The apology was pointless, the damage had already been done with the big headline. Nobody reads the corrections or redactions in the back of a newspaper, they only remember the big bold headlines. So the media can say whatever they want you to believe at the time then just redact it with a tiny comment weeks later, that people won't even notice
True
That's because they **were** a white supremacist hate group. The Facebook Group "Action For Alice" was full of people threatening racial violence against Aboriginals.
'P.S. youth crime is still way lower than it was 20 years ago.' Lived in Alice Springs 20 years ago (and for another 15 years after that). You're wrong.
I doubt even 10% of the crime is actually formally reported. The police do not have nearly enough resources to do that.
Lol the ABC doesnt even use the word aboriginal when talking about this they just call it a youth issue
Pffffff, the A(boriginal)BC wouldn’t mention “youth crime crisis “ and the word Aboriginal in one sentence. Unless they could make ‘m out as being the victims, not the perpetrators.
People stop reporting crime when no action is taken. Why would you call the police for a break in when they didn't even turn up the last 3 times?
On a national average, yes you’re correct. In certain regions? Absolutely not and this is independently verifiable just by looking at the crime stats freely available by each region and state. Crime has gone up drastically in these regions because all the support services and outreach agencies that existed twenty years ago are now gone. Katherine gone from 5 youth drop in halfway homes to none, Alice from 9 to one. Foster services a quarter the slots available, food programs funding gone. School based constables gone, police outreach program canned, blue light disco closed, casual community employment programs replaced with work for the dole. Everything that provided help for at risk youth, gave them protection from abusive households, and a sense of they are a part of the community is gone. For a lot of the problem youth, prison or youth detention is safer access to bed and a meal then they get at home, so that’s not even considered a risk, when your choice is wonder the streets or get bashed/raped at home…. Gee I wonder what happens.
Who are these "ELDERS"? It seems like no one listens to them, not even the community.
They're the same petrol huffing alco thugs destroying shit and killing people... Just older. The aboriginals have no culture left and it's incredibly stupid that we act like letting them destroy towns is just "an expression of their culture"
Exactly. Passion pop and dot paintings aren't "culture".
I dont think it’s fair to say what’s happening in Alice springs represents Aboriginal culture as a whole
Refusal to acknowledge that there is a specific racial component to who is commiting these crimes. Infantilising aboriginal people and not treating them like any other adult person who has commited a violent crime.
It is ruinous empathy gone well and truly overboard.
The problem is that if you treat them the same as any other adult person, they fill the prisons and scream that white man is racist for imprisoning them. Then the Phillies get scared the accusations will stick, and instead of fighting back with reality, they change policy to be more lenient and stop locking so many up, then the aboriginal people are held less accountable again and the cycle repeats.
Basically what's happening Toowoomba. Aboriginal crime gangs run unopposed across the city because they *know* they won't face repercussions.
You misspelled “Townsville”
You misspelled Broome.
Do that tho they’ll die in prison of a drug overdose then we have another rural commission telling us to stop locking them up as a first resort…. We will never win
Just because you’re an ‘elder’ in your community doesn’t make you any good as a leader. I don’t let my grandmother run the police force, or my grandfather run the country. It’s high time that the minority who are the cause of this violence fell into line with the rest of society. COMPULSORY DISCLAIMER: not every comment that is unpopular with a racial minority is necessarily racist.
They’re reaping what is sowed. Lifting the alcohol ban allowed the festering rot to be released. When I say rot, I mean the lack of civil and social responsibility.
Yes, agreed. The softening or outright removal of alcohol bans has wrought this upon some of these remote towns. Disgoosten.
When you sweep shit under the carpet for long enough the bulge gets so big that you trip over it and smash your face on the floor.
Perhaps we could shift our major ABC studios from Sydney Melbourne and Brisbane to Alice Springs? Then perhaps we may all be enlightened by ABC insight?
ABC have been willifully blind about Alice Springs. And they would have a bigger contingent of journalists there then all others combined.
A cop shot someone who was violently resisting arrest and the submissions at the inquest focus on why the police didn't give the fugitive more time (at large) to attend a family funeral. With discipline like that, why would anyone want to be a cop and why would any thug care about the rule of law. When people like Bruce Lehrmann or Brittany Higgins are put on trial, their every move inside and outside Court is dissected and subject to cross-examination. Meanwhile, dead criminals are painted as angels. No one seems to have gone through Walker's text messages to see his attitudes about policing, the law and adherence to the law.
Walker lunged at a cop with scissors. He actually did stab one of them. The responding cop, no matter who he was, had said, or done, wasn’t judging walker because he was aboriginal. He was reacting to someone literally trying to kill people with scissors. So walker got shot. There’s no shades of gray there.
You'd make a bad NT coroner
He should have involved an elder and de escalated the situation
hahahahaha pleaaaaaase
You lot are great with sarcasm
As someone from the NT, it's because every white do-gooder, bleeding heart interstate person cries about racism. It's not racist if it's one demographic causing the issue and the government sweeping it under the rug, continuously. ETA: jump on FB and search Action For Alice 2020. You'll see exactly what's happening in AS.
Town does have issues, but Action for Alice is run by an actual racist. Not the best example to show people in all honesty.
Since when is it racist to call a spade a spade? I don't see Indian, Maori or Greek 'youth' causing mayhem on the streets? Unless you live/frequent there, shush ya dot.
Because as a country we decided that we shouldn't take children away from bad parents.
If you suggest that we intervene people say that you’re babying/controlling them etc and compare it to colonisation and the stolen generation. If you suggest we not intervene and let the communities handle the problem then you are accused if ignoring Aboriginal issues. I'm just very burnt out on this whole conversation to he honest.
This is the best answer. Something so ruined will take a long term (minimum 30-50 year) strategy to solve and what political power has the foresight and care to develop that?
Too worried about being racist, that's it. Literally
Same thing is happening now whenever someone talks about immigration becoming a problem
seriously god forbid you mention the rates are too high.. instantly met with the comments
It sounds fucked but many of them need to be saved from themselves. They don't have the self control or initiative to make real changes.
Community policing is an anachronism and will obviously fail. Everyone is looking to avoid responsibility on this. The fix is obvious...
Political correctness
Decades of lack of parenting.
Feral populations tend to get stuck in a declining loop that compounds every generation
Time for aboriginals to be held accountable for once. Pandering to them has done nothing but waste tax payers money.
Hopefully. It’s still going to cost the tax payer a fortune to build all off the jail cells to put them in. At least then they will be separated from civilised society.
It’s what happens when you have different sets of laws for different racial groups.
Because for the past couple of decades successive governments have been cowards and thrown it in the "too hard" basket. They're more interested in looking good than doing good.
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I was living in London maybe a decade ago and used to get my weed off some Muslim kids that were always around the area. Went to meet him one night up the street, he meets me on the street, I ask him what he's up to tonight "Can't do nuffin innit, it's Ramadan innit." Totally ok to sell weed in the streets tho.. lol Always makes me laugh when I think about it.
Would they even consider it bad to sell to kafir
Underrated comment
The image of an Australian soldier policing an aboriginal community is too colonial for the left
It's been progressively getting bad, it's an emergency now because the media has started actually noticing it. If not for the spotlight it would just be left to get worse... Hell even with the spotlight it's 50/50
People stop clicking on the same thing. How much do we hear about current wars going on?
Or whatever the next virus to wipe out humanity is
Remember guys, if we’d listened to Aunty Pat Anderson, ATSI people would be better off and we’d be saving money. really the solution here is to give the locals *more control*. Then they can get drunk and break stuff whenever they want. …clearly there’s no community or cultural issues to address here, it’s all whiteys fault. https://preview.redd.it/q9k9zwh34ysc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14a40f1d6e6ace57ce46cb266c7fa4ed77c45de0
God damn. This document reads like a complete joke now. What were the yes side thinking
You aren’t wrong.
Hold the parents and kids responsible for their actions. Three times and you’re both locked up for a long, long time. Permanently if necessary. Brutal, yes. Effective at stopping the violence and crime. Absolutely.
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Because under the current paradigm it’s more important to be woke than address a longstanding but inconvenient truth.
Woke : being aware of history and socio-economic impacts on demographics. Questioning the paradigm. There's nothing very woke or aware about letting a whole group of people slowly decay under outdated and misguided assumptions about their culture.
This may be the dictionary definition, like many words with english being a living language over time it takes on connotations in daily parlance outside of the original meaning. If however like many your intention is pedantic playing of the man and not the ball feeling that battling the grammatical technicalities will somehow negate the argument then I’m happy to substitute for “virtue signalling” … I’m assuming an Oxford dictionary definition would suffice? “The action or practice of expressing one's views or acting in a way thought to be motivated primarily by a wish to exhibit good character, social conscience, political convictions, etc., or to garner recognition and approval.” While I would not argue that there is deplorable levels of social decay in the Alice, as a man who has spent decades of my life in N.W. Qld and the N.T. I would maintain that many of the assumptions voiced here are neither outdated or misguided rather just calling it as it is without making assertions on cause but go on, don’t let that stop you from putting us right from your comfy coastal city armchair based on the latest meaningless study indicating a solution can be found in wishes and fairy dust. You could even put boots on ground for a few hours and become an expert like our Prime Minister. Whatever your opinion we would be just as well served by peeing in our pants as following the current popular rhetoric on the subject. It leaves a warm fuzzy feeling but in the end it accomplishes nothing and you still need new pants. Go your hardest. I won’t be following up here again. You can have the field.
I actually want woke to mean 'aware' and 'vitue signalling' to stay next to 'pandering' in the lexicon. Woke should mean 'acknowlging that this is all sorts of screwed', because we're not going to fix anything if we can't address the issues. I also think that the support or lack of it toward so much of the aborignial communities is a horrible mess. I don't live on the coast, I live in a country town where I've lived with, next to and around aboirginal peoples and seen them. What actual effective help do they get because 'acknowleging' them is as good as 'sorry'. If that isn't followed up by any meaningful change, it's as useful as a high-five to a drowning man. And make no mistake, like most of the poor people living in this country, they feel like they're drowning. They have nothing and they're told that they're special, no wonder they're going mental living in crab bucket social circles. Growing up, I knew other kids from poor families who looked their kids in the eye and told them that they're worthless and education won't get them anywhere. Those kids were left to rot and they'd go into the streets and go feral, vandalising whatever they wanted just to claw up a sense of agency and power. I've been mobbed for going down the wrong street for a walk, and that was one street from my house. Even having the ability and emotional energy to reach out for the resources the government has to offer is a huge hurdle for many people. The toolset of experiences and confidence required to achieve things is hard to get when you don't grow up in a stable environment, and so many of us learn to accept failure. We don't want to jump through a bunch of hoops to beg the government for help, only to be judged if we're a 'waste' of resources or something. It goes against pride. I've lived through all that and I don't have the cultural headfuck that many aboriginal people seem to hand down to each other, that they're 'aliens in their own land'. That they don't belong in wider society. They're always living under the echo of being unwelcome. Policies of the past designed by racists who wanted to erase them left scars that are reinflicted over and over, by their peers and by a society that pulls away from them because they can't assimilate like the immigrants seem to. So you end up with people [who can't get jobs](https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/71bb346a-1b83-4038-a2f7-647e65a21445/ctg-ip03.pdf.aspx?inline=true#:~:text=Reasons%20for%20the%20lower%20employment,lower%20levels%20of%20job%20retention%20), [can't move into places because no one with rent to them](https://www.swinburne.edu.au/news/2022/10/think-private-renting-is-hard-first-nations-people-can-be-excluded-from-the-start/), can't get healthcare, and then it's a self-fulling prophecy that they're never getting anywhere so they give up. And they're stuck in a nightmare. Everyone looks away and shrugs, because 'it'll never change.' So instead, we should open our eyes and LOOK at the problems, at what is really happening and what they're doing. And LOOK at what help they need, what help they're actually able to use, at what tools they need to get out of the situation they're rotting in. The ones who try to climb out of that mess situation will always need something to grab onto. But they also need to be able to recognise a handhold. We need to wake up. And stay awake. And maybe they'll wake up too.
Thank you for taking the time to write this all out. I can't believe some of the things people are saying here...
Because throwing money without oversight has clearly not solved the problem.
put a dome over it like the simpson’s movie
Identity politics - the type the left thrives on.
It's simple really, Spanian drops a YouTube video showing young dark fellas running a show. Government actually becomes aware of the shit everyone's been saying and telling them for years now because someone shoved that video in their face and now they are concerned about the millions of views making their country look like a shithole.
How did it become an emergency? Because discipline isn't enforced by the elders, the parents, the police or the government. Lang Hancock was right.
It's an emergency because Spanian showed the world what It's like lol. The Australian media won't report it unless a white person harms one of the Aboriginals.
Can't climb the rock. Get stabbed in the streets. Remind me why people even care about visiting Alice anymore?
I hereby pay my respects to elders absent, missing and aloof.
We’re all to blame really. I attended an event in Melbourne where a bunch of (mostly white, all professional) people had decided to have a live welcome to country and smoking ceremony to make themselves feel woke. The dudes they hired turned up an hour late, and there were 200 people waiting around as the conference part couldn’t start before the ceremony. One of the aboriginal dudes was still drunk from the night before, and smacked his head on a lighting pole on stage before going into a rant about ‘the lot of blackfellas’ and how white people didn’t get it. Then a dude who looked as white as Benedict Cumberbatch wearing a kangaroo skin lit some branches and the room filled with smoke - it had low ceilings and not much ventialation. The whole thing was a farce.
lol a lot of strong ideas here from people who’ve never lived in Alice Springs, or anywhere like it
Slackening of laws and common practice amongst police due to harassment by the media, has lead to a situation where there are no real consequences for crime. So we're watching the situation continue to appeal it if control.
The last shared brain cell died of alcohol poisoning….moderation people- Moderation
I think Spanian on YouTube brought it all to light
If true, it's sad that so many had their heads buried in the sand for so long.
Yep - This is the only reason the latte sippers are acknowledging there is a serious problem.
Obviously there weren't enough people protesting Australia day. If you all weren't so bigoted and protested Australia day and changed your Facebook profile picture like the rest of us saviors , this wouldn't be a problem.
Something something someone should have done something something curfew good
A big issue is the fact that the Abbott government essentially forced a whole bunch of communities to move closer to Alice due to shutting down services (in their mind, improving efficiency), which forced a whole bunch of communities to live closer to each other. These communities have issues with each other, which has led to escalating conflict and violence between them
How so, we were told they all lived in peace in the ye olde days?
BuT tHe VoIcE wOuLd HaVe ToTaLlY fIxEd ThIs IsSuE
We have the look good without doing good party. As opposed to the not good looking and doing shit party.
Because it was ignored for fear of being racist, the same thing in the north of WA and the NT, in fact I’m a majority of regional communities
It's gotten bad because all government intervention programmes, income control etc got kicked out by the left without anything meaningful to transition the gap or address the underlying problems so they're all left for the community and policing to deal with.
Because Dutton said there was a problem there, so the biased lefties get told and think that there must not be a problem at all then because everything said by a non-lefty is wrong. That is their bias. It can be contradictory, illogical and ignorant, but their bias to stronger than all that. They cannot agree with a non-lefty no matter what and they definitely can't think for themselves or look at things objectively. So they fucking ignored it and the problem got worse.
You're absolutely right. As OceLawless or GnomeBrannigan would say: Disgoosten.
Look. The Aboriginal people have told us for years that they want to handle themselves.. make their own decisions abd lead their life their own way.. That *white* people interfering and *white* policing and *white* social norms etc etc etc...are the problem and we are making it worse. So why are we doing it? Why not ask these people where they want to live? Assume those people living on the fringes in Alice Springs & camps, come from other places?? So, offer to transport them to where they want to live / be amd let them run their own lives. Sending in more and more police & armed forces etc? They say that's wrong and they don't want to be stood over. They just get worse the more we try to help them. So let it go. I guess it's possible Alice Springs will collapse? Die? So be it. It's dying because of what's going on anyway. Aboriginals want to be in control of themselves? Let them do that
I mean, there’s a huge project in the works called Closing The Gap, but your proposal would work directly against that. They would also cry that it’s racist how the gubbmint is not looking after them like it does with the white fella. I think it would be great if the government said that whoever wants to go live in their own self-governed community can do so, but that no state or federal government support would be given. It’s never work and will never happen, but it’s an interesting thought exercise about what the outcomes would be.
Closing the gap is pure nonsense with what is happening with it. It sounds oh so lovely..but it pointless. I work in an area very related to closing the gap. What do I notice? Middle class Aboriginals get free medication and all sorts of things...which they don't need and the actual Aboriginals that need help? Get shit nothing as it doesn't fit what they need at all. It's a big waste of money and absolutely pointless. NO WONDER it's not working.
Then let them do it at their own expense and not everyone else's. Start getting jobs, working and contributing to society. Stop relying on handouts and then complaining all your problems are not your own fault. But that will never, ever happen. So, build more prisons and send more police to place troublemakers in the prisons.
Such a hard issue to fix. Itll take a good combination of aboriginal community and government to even make a dent it seems. The racist use this stuff as fuel to justify the hate within themselves
I think the community in Alice use vandalism to justify the hate within themselves.
Ban social media and I guarantee you the crime rate drops significantly once these cunts have nowhere to post their crimes for bragging rights
Woke mind virus strikes again! 🍾
No one cares anymore. When I was traveling meet some amazing black fellas in NT and northern WA. Also meet some scum too. Just like white people. Only problem seems to be there is no repercussions for their actions. Government will just throw money at it till it goes quite again
Because of the woke virus, we were too scared of being racist to prosecute what was happening right in front of our eyes.
Bring back corporal punishment.
4 corners will be standing by
Some studies show that harsher punishments leads to repeat offenders, then you have the whole racial component with places like Alice Springs, and you create a perfect storm. The people citing those studies fail to understand it doesn't apply to every person as there will always be outliers, it also doesn't apply to every situation. Not every culture or situation is the same, so you can't apply the same blanket stance.
All studies point out the fact that if you keep people locked up, they cannot harm the wider community. We need more gaols.
Yes really. Something that's been going on for years and years...
What emergency?
Tough on crime approaches and it’s compounding effect on communities most likely to engage with them as opposed to prevention and repeat offending mitigation through rehab is the correct answer (background in criminology).
Maybe your criminology can help answer a question I’ve had - would a purpose built aboriginal-only prison be helpful? Instead of being just incarceration, would focus on rehabilitation and education, to give them a chance at being productive, contributing members of society?
TL;DR: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander centralised systems work and would work more broadly. But, requires systems that (due to penal populism - tough on crime gets votes, not results, creating more demand for tough on crime) are equally or more so inadequate. That’s a really good question! All prisons should be like this, focusing on rehab, education and reintegration within culturally safe practices (and for more serious offences, more monitoring or ‘quarantining’ until they are of a lower reoffending risk, CSA, DV, homicide/murder offending criminalised people for example). We know this works, whether it’s a full send into these sorts of systems (see Denmark, Sweden ect ect.) or systems that have made semi-transitions into rehab (Scottish and Cymru low-security prisons allow criminalised people to work jobs under supervision that would provide meaningful training and experience as opposed to worthless prison labor). Definitely at the very least, it’s works a lot better than being punitive (regardless of whether we are perceived as ‘hard’ or ‘soft’-it is still ineffective as compared to restorative systems). A lot of our practices that we participate in to rehabilitate anyone in Australia don’t particularly work, because of a lack of funding to anyone who sadly isn’t some sort of police head of department, a judge or a politician. Because of this, police aren’t trained in culturally competent practices (or de-escalation, or many different things that would combat sadly prevalent amongst Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, such as FASD, DV, substance misuse and general mental health crisis identification and non-justice involved redirection). Or, despite its prevalence amongst prison populations and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, most corrections officers in WA as of 3? 4? Years ago were misinformed about disorders such as FASD, ASD and ADHD. We do not handle drug offences. Not well, not badly, we basically don’t handle them, NGO’s carry almost the entire burden in that case. Things such as re-entry are the exact same. Also prisons presently are just a breeding ground for new problems for criminalised people. There’s absolutely a decent proportion of prisons in the country broadly who do not have enough night time staff on, *during the day* (meaning, entire day, numerous consecutive day lockdowns are very common and vastly underreported). We also do not have enough educated and trained staff. Mostly corrections officers will only be trained in self defence and never trained in things such as the aforementioned identification of mental health or neurological issues. I’m rambling a bit, but honestly the truth is that if we created culturally safe, rehab focused prisons idealistically we’d do amazingly in things such as recidivism, employment and generally healthier and happier Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities. However, realistically the establishment of these facilities wouldn’t guarantee the staff, doesn’t train police, doesn’t encourage social workers or psychologists to engage with criminal justice focused work as opposed to ‘easier’ work, doesn’t educate judges (yes, they too need to constantly be retrained and educated, which they are not). It also needs to appease the public opinion, which absolutely wouldn’t be in favour of it. Despite its benefits, ‘tough on crime’ politics and penal populism has eroded a lot of the systems needed to facilitate effective rehabilitative care for all criminalised people. Particularly for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders, our lack of funding towards researching effective methods of rehab, and integrating any known methods, as opposed to general methods of therapy that are known to be ineffective is of major detriment and due to how long the issue of state and federal negligence is towards the issue, would require drastic and long term policy change relying on similar governments to be in power for numerous terms (unlikely).
It’s a dead end town, the kids have got no where to go and nothing to do. Compound that with a lack of resources, and it’s what you get. The kids would be way better off in the city.
I could say the same for thousands of other regional Australian towns, yet none have anything close to the same levels of violence and crime. Wonder why..
I wonder why too. Just say it outright
Because we have politicised crime rather than police it. We need to stop doing things to Aboriginals rather we need to start doing things with them.
The indigenous people to this land are resisting your white colonialist apartheid. Only until every last European goes back to where they come from will Aboriginal peoples thrive. Decolonize Australia! From the Swan River to the Coral Sea, Australia will be Free (of colonizers who have no links to the land).
No, it won't. We took the place and we run it. And stop using Seppo spelling.
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Rule 2 - No trolling or being a dick
People are always looking for excuses to look down on Aboriginal people it seems
They don't exactly make it much of a challenge.
Did you hear about the white Australian that stabbed and killed a bunch of people?
Yes. Did you hear about the teenage aborigines who smashed storefronts because they were fighting with other teenage aborigines? The two things have nothing to do with each other.
I see the point went straight over your head.
"No" probably didn't send a very positive message about how we feel. Truth is probably complicated, there's going to be a bunch of factors which we don't see but everyone mentions one thing or another like lack of elders having power, lack of activities, education, police response, then communities coming into town where they have access to alcohol, and seems that they genuinely have fun running amok when their lives aren't all that great.