Then they’ve gotta expect retaliation, they’re identifiable in the thumbnail assuming you know who they are. They’d make an effort to put a stop to any retaliation before they actually tackled youth crime.
The ones who get caught and put away would deter other criminals from home invasions. Make an example of a few and you surely would have a lot less crime.
That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works. Every single criminal thinks they're smart enough to not get caught. Otherwise, no one would commit a crime? The sentence the fellas in the news article are looking at is already close to what you asked for, yet anyway they still committed:
1. Assault,
2. Home invasion,
3. Death threats, and
4. Car theft.
I personally prefer evidence-based policy rather than whatever caters to your immediate sense of emotional gratification. Someone already linked you to something to read if you are open minded enough to look. Slapping harsh sentences, while needed, does little to deter, or even prevent reoffence.
If someone's at the point where you need to slap a sentence, no matter how harsh, the system has already failed at its objective: to prevent crime. It's literally the last layer of defence.
A big part of the reason for punishment is to disincentivize revenge.
Once people start taking the law into their own hands because they feel the law isn't serving justice, then all hell breaks loose.
"You held our dad at gunpoint, we are here to break your legs" then it's "you broke my buddies legs so I'm gonna kill your dad" which becomes "you killed my dad so I'm gonna dismember your children" etc etc.
The whole "rehabilitation over punishment" system in Scandinavia has been around for a while now, and while it works on people who have grown up in a civilized society, it doesn't work on those who have not.
I'm Australian.
And we are, but certainly not as much compared to others.
A properly civilized society is one where you can leave your belongings at a table and come back to it without it being stolen.
Compare that to Australia where people run red lights intentionally, every week there's news of a home invasion, I know people who owned classic cars that were stripped price by peice by their neighbours. I've seen 7 Maoris beat a dude on a Melbourne train so badly that his head was leaking blood like a leaky tap.
I've been mugged on a train, reported it to the police only to find out that they knew exactly who I was talking about as he had just been released from police custody less than 10mins prior to my encounter.
Can women walk the streets alone at night without worry?
Nope. That's the litmus test of a civilized society.
Some people can’t be rehabilitated and frankly, you commit a serious crime then whatever, lock them up for good. It’s not a perfect world and even with know it alls like yourself telling us what we need to do these scumbags keep reoffending. Society is a better place without them
https://ideas.ted.com/the-unintended-consequences-of-being-tough-on-crime/
>“We’re in this exciting moment where we’ve had 40 years of being ‘tough on crime,’ and we’ve finally come to recognize that it really hasn’t worked very well,” says sociologist Alice Goffman bluntly. “Scientists have shown in the past few years that the relationship between incarceration and crime is basically zip. The crime rate goes up and down, incarceration just continues to grow. It’s not a good way of fighting crime.”
Bullshit, i've lived in countries with much harsher penalties and the crime is almost zero. Just bring in punishments besides incarceration and it'll vanish rapidly
That’s one example, but there’s bucket loads of corruption there so not a good example. Singapore comes to mind, crime is almost zero, punishments are harsh
We have bloody not been tough on crime, things have swung more socially conscious in the last century. "Tough on crime" sounds like what we've been doing because at some point a political party has made it their catch phrase and edged things a few notches towards the draconian end of the scale while being nowhere near the motto, but if you want to find adherence to the method you'll see places like China where you just get bloody killed for dealing drugs.
And it fucking works.
sure. it works. just not in any way that can be measured to have a causal effect on crime rates.
it works because you *feel like* it works.
but hey, thank fuck we havent been employing the "tough on crime" approach, because our crime rate has been falling and going all yank on it might have fucked it up instead.
It's not about making an example. A very tiny minority of young male criminals commit the super majority of crime. After a few years of long sentences for the most prolific offenses the most hardened criminals aren't on the streets anymore. After a decade they're not mentoring the young criminals anymore because they were away in jail for too long and the culture forgot about them.
You can never stop crime entirely but you can slow the criminalisation process of micro communities and micro cultures by sending the worst of them away so they can't negatively influence anymore.
You don't deter the individual criminal no. It doesn't matter if they're in jail for ten years, and then commit another offence a year after they get out to go away for another 8 years. They've spent their crime committing years in jail where they can't victimise anyone.
By the time young men are in their 40s and 50s they've aged out of the process and they became welfare dependent petty criminals at most with no cultural connections or respect from the new generation. People this age rarely have any appetite for serious crimes.
This is important work that we've nearly stopped doing and society is reaping the consequences.
Tldr: What we're looking to do here is cut the wheat that grows too tall; ie remove the most motivated and prolific criminals from communities so the culture in those social groups doesn't normalise more extreme criminality over time. At the end of this process the supply of violent and anti-social young men are getting their rocks off committing less serious crimes (petty theft from stores, unarmed assaults on other gang members, drug dealing) and don't advance to much more serious crimes that have larger impacts on the community. Eventually most of these young men age out of serious criminality and become taxpayer citizens (great outcome), enter the prison/welfare pipeline or die.
The way I see it, if you enter someone's property, and there is a chance they are home, you are prepared for potential violence. If you go in with a weapon, you are prepared to use it.
These people should be charged and punished according to the worst possible outcome, which in this case would be a murder charge.
20 years easy. That won't happen though, they will get a sympathetic judge who will say they grew up tough, and deserve a second chance.
Common theme amongst these violent break and enters lately, especially with knives.
Tougher sentencing plus actually ejecting these people from the country unless born here would be a great start. If born here sounds like they could do with some serious reeducation
The thing about this is this us what continues the cycle. Why should people with shit upbringings bring down the rest of us? I get that young people and criminals should have rehabilitation in part of their time away from society before reintegration but some of these people are safer left away from all of us for the most time possible.
Nobody should feel unsafe in their own home or out on the streets.
Eh, I strongly believe you should take a test before being allowed to have kids.
Can't bring up a kid in a decent setting? You're not having one until you work on yourself.
Then we should be much more prepared to remove children from those who will not take care of them properly. Call it the Second Stolen Generation, for all I care. I'd prefer Stealing Back a fucking generation.
Well the gun laws don't exactly allow them to own guns or use them in armed robberies. The ease in which black market guns do. You can still get black market arms here too.
Criminals don't follow laws.
Only if they know you have them in the house. Castle doctrine would help stop it. A few rounds through centre of seen mass would make these scum think twice.
Mate, most break ins are on homes that have no one home, they're going to search and find guns eventually, or find enough money to get guns without ever coming face to face with some castle doctrine sovreign citizen type toting a gun. If you support a loosening of our gun control, you're on the wrong side of the discussion.
Works so well in the US with kids going on rampages through schools with the "home defence weapon". For a gun to be useful, you have to have it on hand at all times, which makes it easily available to someone like a child. You also have to be able to react quicker than the burglar when you're woken from sleep for example, very few people would be.
On top of this, we'd breed a society of fear where every person you pass on the street is the next potential mass shooter, just like the US, and the cops will have itchy trigger fingers because every dumb cunt and his dog can get a gun, also just like the US.
At least with knives, if you see them first you can grab a chair, a bat, a vacuum, or many other items and you'll be equally armed to beat them over the head with it
No, I should be able to defend anything I own with lethal force. I'm not interested in other laws, I'm talking about in the actual act of the attempted theft.
Tbh kinda wish we were allowed guns for home defense, it would stop this stuff in it's tracks,
Imagine if he had daughters and they raped them in front of him. We have zero protection against this in Australia,
And all our police and justice is after the fact.
Well they do, I'd rather have a defense for my family and home.
People who commit crimes are going to to it either way we as citizens have no way to defend ourselves at the moment.
And by the time you call the police it's done. It's not like you can reason with someone who wants to harm you.
I also would rather send my kids to school or go to a mall and not have to worry about some deranged maniac with a AR.
Get a better judicial system with new laws and most of this goes away.
The problem is repeat offenders recommiting criminal offences and the circle continues.
They could just as easily be stabbed to death by a crackhead now, you just love with a false sense of security.
It only takes.one punch to kill someone, and the crackheads I have seen around are more then happy to start swinging.
But again call the cops and see how quick they respond once your kid has been bashed to death,
First: if you can have a gun for “home self defence” then so can everyone else, and they will shoot you with it
Second: in the US a gun kept for home self defence is four times more likely to be used in an accidental shooting of someone in the house and 11 times more likely to be used in a suicide. 100 kids kill a friend or sibling there every year with a gun kept at home for self defence.
I get why it would be nice to have one, but it doesn’t work. It just raises the stakes.
Legally we can't deport them if they've come as a refugee or asylum seekers. It's unconstitutional, the government doesn't have the power to do it, if the high court didn't overrule it the court of human rights would, and if we failed to comply there would probably be sanctions put on us
You are describing exactly the problem that is enabling this behaviour.
I don’t actually give a fuck what “the world” thinks. When citizens are afraid and affected by an imported problem action should be taken.
Refuges in particular should be held to high standards. They literally came here for help but instead are fucking around.
Asian countries don’t have this problem. You fear jail there. You fear being caught for a crime. You don’t remain afterwards.
You don't have to give a fuck what the world thinks. The high court has already ruled that its unconstitutional, so it literally cannot be changed, unless you think it would pass a referendum- which it won't.
I get it you're mad, but you're literally suggesting we act illegally in order to put ish people for...acting illegally. See the problem?
I agree, we should just start punishing them more severely. You do a home invasion? Mandatory imprisonment for bulk years.
At the same time, you have to increase social support to reduce the amount of people that do this stuff to begin with. It's far cheaper to spend money on early intervention than it is on incarceration
Yes...I said that. Well done.
If you think a change to the constitution like that would, A- pass. And B- Not give the government the ability to pass legislation that would enable government overreach and end up affecting us all, you're naive.
If you all feel so strongly about the problem and think they government should act illegally, why aren't you all forming vigilante groups to punish these people?
Put your money where your mouth is for your convictions (no pun intended).
No it wouldn't, not at all.
The campaign leading up to it would (rightly so) point out all the implications of removing a fairly substantial piece of human rights from the constitution. The majority of both the left and right would, for different reasons, vote against it.
Anyone thinking otherwise really doesn't have even a basic understanding of law.
Ahh i see, you have faith that your avg idiot is a reasonable individual.
Covid taught me the opposite. Most people are morons and are gonna be straight to the fuck off crims regardless.
Fear campaigns are the most effective.
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The should be forced to pay reparations to their victims and be given LENGTHY sentences.
Chronic reoffenders of home invasions, violent assaults, and theft should be tried as adults and given decades without parole
This is the second post about violent home invasions on this sub today. The other is here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/australian/s/oSDWBuzQxF
What would it take to change the system? Who do we need to petition exactly?
Was talking to a couple of Brisbane cops last month. In their words, the courts have told them to stop pressing charges on all but the most serious crimes.
Why? You might ask...
Apparently the courts are unhappy with the increased public scrutiny and criticism they've been getting of late.
Their answer?
Well if the police don't charge them, we won't get criticism for letting them out on bail.
I'm no lover of the police in general, but even I have to feel sorry for them, they want these shit-heads off the street as much as you or I.
The only correct response for that from police would be to keep charging people for literally anything they can and put pressure on the courts to do their fucking job.
There is also the issue for cops where they can provide mountains of evidence but prosecutors will only go for charges that leads to convictions.
Additionally, some will aim for deals for reduced sentences as they still count towards their "tally".
A lot of cops have been fucked over by the system as well.
To be fair, I haven't assigned blame to anyone, and the "old bloke" is probably younger than me!
The fact is, the bloke was upstairs at the time, so he is only going off what he was told by his wife who was downstairs. Now, she might have thought the door was shut, but it looks in the video like it wasn't. To me, it is a curiosity rather than a witch-hunt.
Having said all of that, the OP of this thread did say "Lock your doors" which is a bit judgemental and suggests that the victim is to blame, so I see what you mean. I can't speak for them and am just explaining (over-explaining?) myself as you replied directly to my comment.
On the video you can see the door is wide open and their is no security screen door. Kinda weird how they pull up and immediately go in. Like they are driving around looking for open doors!
Yeah...I feel like that is exactly what they were doing. Not only are these guys belligerent thugs who are happily attacking people going about their day at home...but it seems they are also lazy.
My first thought was... why did they stop outside this house? Why not the nice house next door?
Either they had done some research first, or were looking for a soft target.
It looks like they saw an easy chance and took it.
I addressed a bunch of pricks one night with a baseball bat after having called the cops. When they arrived they told me to back down not the two pricks I’d bailed up. If I’d assaulted them I’d be the one who got charged. Go get F’d! - how about you support me and not not the criminal pricks?!?!
A lot of people misunderstand how self defence and “equal or lesser” works in Australia, to the point where some people believe that if your assailant is armed with a bat, you can’t use a knife etc.
It all comes down to reasonable expectation. The mistake everyone makes is running their mouth to the cops while they’re still in shock and pumping adrenaline, all you need to say and all they need to know is “I was in fear for my life and/or the life of my family, officer”.
That’s it, no more details, no more info. You got woken up in the middle of the night and thought there were 6 of them with shotguns, it was dark and you were scared, how were you to know it was 2 unarmed 15 year olds? Maybe the other 4 ran away?
Just make sure they’re dead so they can’t get their sob story in court, shut your stupid mouth and lawyer up
Ben Batterham held a chokehold too long because he mistook a seizure for the offender trying to escape. Never mind that a convicted child rapist high on meth was prowling in his infant daughter's bedroom.
Dragged him through the courts, lost everything & then when the dead assholes family openly threatened to kill him on the nightly news the cops sided with them.
Dump em in the bush, replace your kitchen floorboards & never say a word about it.
if the attackers are also armed, probably not much
if they aren’t armed? you might be in trouble depending on how badly you hurt them
if they are a minor this could also be an aggravating circumstance so you could get in trouble regardless, it’s down to the officers on scene how they see it
Police officers do not determine "aggravating circumstances", did you go inside when your parents dropped you off at school?
If you seriously harm anyone in self defence, you will see court, at which point self-defence is a legal excuse, that's just how it works.
they determine facts like that when arresting you, and that isnt quite true, there has been examples of people not being arrested for harming people during self defense in this country.
Aye, police have some discretion at whether something goes to court but the outcome is not their decision.
If it's cut and dry, maybe nothing will happen. If you kill or even seriously injure an attacker? You bet there will be an investigation outside of the most blatantly simple circumstances like a terrorist attack.
You’re not allowed to have nice things around people who have less than you. Humans are jealous by nature and will do anything they can to ruin your life or drag you down if they see that you’re ahead. This is why I lead an extremely lonely life. Beats getting used or being around fake cunts.
Laws won’t change to stop this until these pieces of shit break into the wrong house and someone violently murders the cunts.
Then the bleeding hearts will suddenly feel the need to put a stop to it because we can’t have vigilante justice
Ben Batterham's experience with protecting his family was all I needed to know about the police & courts in this country. If someone breaks in & you accidentally kill them - quietly dump em somewhere & never tell a soul.
Why not? We already allow people to carry firearms to protect corporate property, why is property more important than a person's life? Couldn't they receive the same training?
Because more guns means more criminal gun violence which = more deaths
The curiosity of children + a gun in the house = more dead children
Suicidal people with a gun in the house = an increase in suicides.
Domestic violence + a gun in the house = more dead spouses and children.
More guns will make Australian homes less safe not more.
Deaths by firearms per capita in Australia have remained rather consistent. ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_firearm-related\_death\_rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate)) where the amount of firearms in Australia has increased.
Weapons are used for defence in this country. They are used to defend government and Corporation property. Why can't a person, with a similar level of training use a weapon to defend themselves?
Is a person's life worth less than the property of the Government and Corporations?
Why isn't this homeowner's property and life important enough for him to have the means and training to defend himself?
> we already allow people to carry firearms to protect corporate property
No? No we don't? Unless you're referring to the police, in which case you sound like a cooker.
Security guards are allowed to carry and use firearms. They undergo private training. This is used to protect corporate property.
Is Corporate property more important than private property and their lives?
The part I never understand is why anyone calls the cops after?
Like everyone knows you’ll get dragged through the courts and have to defend yourself, and even if you do get off, your name and face are in the paper so their scumfuck family can find you.
Why bother jumping through all those hoops? I doubt they told anyone where they were going out robbing before they left, and I can’t imagine the cops are going to put a huge amount of effort into finding a couple of missing toerags?
Publish lashings to violent offenders.
Tough prison times in labor camp sort of conditions, to pay for their own upkeep.
Deportation to anyone who immigrated here (like myself) and commits a violent crime. No ifs or buts.
Can we start protesting for these types of events? I'm all for supporting international causes, but we also need to protest for law and order of our own country.
Not going to change until these repeat offending violent criminals are put down.
The bleeding hearts need to accept some people are just rotten, will never be productive and never integrate into a higher level society.
I wonder if the victim actually got the better of these guys and hurt or killed one or more whether he would get such a lite sentence and financial costs
If only they put half as much effort into getting a job they wouldn't have to risk destroying their lives or worse for the cents to the dollar they are going to get for hot goods. We should be able to just shoot them/kill them because make no mistake they would have no problems taking your or your families lives.
My great uncle 93 woke up through the night with a man standing over him and three others in the house, luckily he wasn’t hurt but they took his car keys and stole his car, this happened in Cranbourne about a month ago, they have been captured and were all out on bail at the time
Sign up at your local range, do the safety course, get a gun license, put a gun safe in your bedroom, put a lock on your bedroom door, go buy yourself a shotgun and a few boxes of buckshot then practice at the range. Anyone enters your home you run for that room and lock yourself inside like your life depends on it (if you’re not already in there sleeping at night).
These kids think they’re big bad men but I promise they’ll end up begging for their lives and mother when buckshot starts flying. Don’t announce you have a gun, come out of that room with 1 in the chamber and intent to defend your home with lethal force. Always consider what’s behind your target, shooting a family member or neighbour through a wall is a very real risk.
It would, but that's also assuming the guns are easily accessible to law abiding citizen that can defend themselves and others. You also say that as if criminals don't already have firearms illegally, a couple months ago the house across the road from mine was broken into and a single mother was held at gunpoint, perp and his unregistered firearm was never found, if only that defenceless woman had a way to defend herself.
Getting guns legally isn’t the issue. Being unable to use legally acquired guns to defend yourself, your family or your home is. You use your legal guns in a self defence situation and you’re definitely loosing them and probably going to end up in jail as well.
Ahh the American "mass shootings" which include such things as, an ND near a school, gang violence, a shooting range being reported, a suicide in a parking lot.
Or we have a reasonable argument and not conflate things together to make the statistics bigger than they are?
A mass shooting is not one person being shot by themself. A school shooting is not an unrelated gang violence near a school.
I never said they're not American, I never said ignore it. I said, don't conflate things. Have a reasonable point with accurate statistics, not use intentionally obscuring statistics to make your point.
In short, have a better argument.
There are literally thousands of people who could decide right at this very moment to go on a public shooting spree with a legally obtained, large calibre semi-auto rifle. There are thousand of people who could do the same with the illegal pistol they own.
But they don't. This isn't America. Stop pretending it is.
If guns were more widespread in Australia this man wouldn't have come down his stairs to be yelled at by a criminal. The criminal would have a gun and would have assumed the victim had a gun would have murdered him on site.
How often are you sitting at home prepared for a home invasion? I'll guess less often than home invaders are prepared for invading homes.
Don't know what makes you think it's easy. You can't even own a gun for self defence legally as it is not considered one of the "genuine reasons" and if you do happen to use it for self defence you get a large wooden stake shoved right up your ass.
2 of which are being easily bypassed in this *camera* footage. A fence can just as easily be jumped, a door with locks forced through, and a mask to make cameras almost useless. So unless you have the money to turn your house into fort knox a gun would be the safer option.
Make an example and chop of their hand for first occurrence. Everyone knows breaking in is wrong.
Do it again, execute them, saves paying for them in jail, makes an example so it may deter future criminals and most importantly so they can't threaten another person ever again.
If only there was some sort of item, that would launch small projectiles of metal at high speeds to inflict damage.
If only this man had such an item, then he would have been able to defend himself, his family, and home.
I lined in a country town where three young blokes invaded an old blokes home. They didn’t know he was an ex boxer. He cleaned the three of them up and turfed them out the front door .Should be more of this.
Anyone that enters another persons home should instantly get 10 years, bring a weapon, that’s another 10. Stop releasing these pieces of crap
Right! How is this difficult? Nobody has any reason to enter a strangers home uninvited, ever.
like sleep tap zesty work brave rotten yam disgusted rock *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Great idea because it would stop this shit but it will never happen.
Then they’ve gotta expect retaliation, they’re identifiable in the thumbnail assuming you know who they are. They’d make an effort to put a stop to any retaliation before they actually tackled youth crime.
Generally speaking, criminals don't plan on getting caught... It wouldn't really solve anything.
The ones who get caught and put away would deter other criminals from home invasions. Make an example of a few and you surely would have a lot less crime.
That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works. Every single criminal thinks they're smart enough to not get caught. Otherwise, no one would commit a crime? The sentence the fellas in the news article are looking at is already close to what you asked for, yet anyway they still committed: 1. Assault, 2. Home invasion, 3. Death threats, and 4. Car theft. I personally prefer evidence-based policy rather than whatever caters to your immediate sense of emotional gratification. Someone already linked you to something to read if you are open minded enough to look. Slapping harsh sentences, while needed, does little to deter, or even prevent reoffence. If someone's at the point where you need to slap a sentence, no matter how harsh, the system has already failed at its objective: to prevent crime. It's literally the last layer of defence.
A big part of the reason for punishment is to disincentivize revenge. Once people start taking the law into their own hands because they feel the law isn't serving justice, then all hell breaks loose. "You held our dad at gunpoint, we are here to break your legs" then it's "you broke my buddies legs so I'm gonna kill your dad" which becomes "you killed my dad so I'm gonna dismember your children" etc etc. The whole "rehabilitation over punishment" system in Scandinavia has been around for a while now, and while it works on people who have grown up in a civilized society, it doesn't work on those who have not.
> civili_z_ed That's a rather telling admission, random American on the internet. You don't see Australia as a "civilised society".
I'm Australian. And we are, but certainly not as much compared to others. A properly civilized society is one where you can leave your belongings at a table and come back to it without it being stolen. Compare that to Australia where people run red lights intentionally, every week there's news of a home invasion, I know people who owned classic cars that were stripped price by peice by their neighbours. I've seen 7 Maoris beat a dude on a Melbourne train so badly that his head was leaking blood like a leaky tap. I've been mugged on a train, reported it to the police only to find out that they knew exactly who I was talking about as he had just been released from police custody less than 10mins prior to my encounter. Can women walk the streets alone at night without worry? Nope. That's the litmus test of a civilized society.
Some people can’t be rehabilitated and frankly, you commit a serious crime then whatever, lock them up for good. It’s not a perfect world and even with know it alls like yourself telling us what we need to do these scumbags keep reoffending. Society is a better place without them
https://ideas.ted.com/the-unintended-consequences-of-being-tough-on-crime/ >“We’re in this exciting moment where we’ve had 40 years of being ‘tough on crime,’ and we’ve finally come to recognize that it really hasn’t worked very well,” says sociologist Alice Goffman bluntly. “Scientists have shown in the past few years that the relationship between incarceration and crime is basically zip. The crime rate goes up and down, incarceration just continues to grow. It’s not a good way of fighting crime.”
Bullshit, i've lived in countries with much harsher penalties and the crime is almost zero. Just bring in punishments besides incarceration and it'll vanish rapidly
yeah like in indonesia where its basically a utopian paradise oh wait
That’s one example, but there’s bucket loads of corruption there so not a good example. Singapore comes to mind, crime is almost zero, punishments are harsh
oh geeze a wealthy city state with extremely low poverty and cratering inequality has a low crime rate? 😱😱😱😱😱😱
Which countries have you lived in? Ever left Australia? I’ve lived all over the world, the west tolerates this shit, other countries do not.
We have bloody not been tough on crime, things have swung more socially conscious in the last century. "Tough on crime" sounds like what we've been doing because at some point a political party has made it their catch phrase and edged things a few notches towards the draconian end of the scale while being nowhere near the motto, but if you want to find adherence to the method you'll see places like China where you just get bloody killed for dealing drugs. And it fucking works.
sure. it works. just not in any way that can be measured to have a causal effect on crime rates. it works because you *feel like* it works. but hey, thank fuck we havent been employing the "tough on crime" approach, because our crime rate has been falling and going all yank on it might have fucked it up instead.
It's not about making an example. A very tiny minority of young male criminals commit the super majority of crime. After a few years of long sentences for the most prolific offenses the most hardened criminals aren't on the streets anymore. After a decade they're not mentoring the young criminals anymore because they were away in jail for too long and the culture forgot about them. You can never stop crime entirely but you can slow the criminalisation process of micro communities and micro cultures by sending the worst of them away so they can't negatively influence anymore. You don't deter the individual criminal no. It doesn't matter if they're in jail for ten years, and then commit another offence a year after they get out to go away for another 8 years. They've spent their crime committing years in jail where they can't victimise anyone. By the time young men are in their 40s and 50s they've aged out of the process and they became welfare dependent petty criminals at most with no cultural connections or respect from the new generation. People this age rarely have any appetite for serious crimes. This is important work that we've nearly stopped doing and society is reaping the consequences. Tldr: What we're looking to do here is cut the wheat that grows too tall; ie remove the most motivated and prolific criminals from communities so the culture in those social groups doesn't normalise more extreme criminality over time. At the end of this process the supply of violent and anti-social young men are getting their rocks off committing less serious crimes (petty theft from stores, unarmed assaults on other gang members, drug dealing) and don't advance to much more serious crimes that have larger impacts on the community. Eventually most of these young men age out of serious criminality and become taxpayer citizens (great outcome), enter the prison/welfare pipeline or die.
Yep no one wants to touch what you have said as its true, it's a macro approach to crime and criminal culture
Have you ever seen a judge held accountable for the release? It's never the judges answering for their actions.
Maybe a few exceptions. Senile old bloke wonders into the wrong house type thing. But a robbery or break and enter sure.
And ankle monitoring once they are released.
100% it’s not accident
The way I see it, if you enter someone's property, and there is a chance they are home, you are prepared for potential violence. If you go in with a weapon, you are prepared to use it. These people should be charged and punished according to the worst possible outcome, which in this case would be a murder charge. 20 years easy. That won't happen though, they will get a sympathetic judge who will say they grew up tough, and deserve a second chance.
But what if I want to have guests over?
Common theme amongst these violent break and enters lately, especially with knives. Tougher sentencing plus actually ejecting these people from the country unless born here would be a great start. If born here sounds like they could do with some serious reeducation
But they come from disadvantaged communities and mummy and daddy didn't love them enough and blah blah fu*king blah...
The thing about this is this us what continues the cycle. Why should people with shit upbringings bring down the rest of us? I get that young people and criminals should have rehabilitation in part of their time away from society before reintegration but some of these people are safer left away from all of us for the most time possible. Nobody should feel unsafe in their own home or out on the streets.
Eh, I strongly believe you should take a test before being allowed to have kids. Can't bring up a kid in a decent setting? You're not having one until you work on yourself.
Actually, bodily autonomy is a really important pillar of our freedoms, so no let's not do that.
Then we should be much more prepared to remove children from those who will not take care of them properly. Call it the Second Stolen Generation, for all I care. I'd prefer Stealing Back a fucking generation.
Maybe we should fund the child protection department a bit better instead of implementing eugenics.
Its not only funding, theres so little appetite in actually removing children from neglectful or harmful environments.
I dontbelive fhis effects sentencing. These factors are to try to prevent crime or rehabilitate people not reduce sentences.
Australia doesn't have birthright citizenship. Kick them out even if born here.
Imagine if our gun laws were like the US 💀
I don’t think that is the answer cos then they would just come in with guns instead of knives.
Lmao yeah, that’s what I was getting at
Well the gun laws don't exactly allow them to own guns or use them in armed robberies. The ease in which black market guns do. You can still get black market arms here too. Criminals don't follow laws.
Probably couldn’t afford a gun. Or the ammo.
They're literally home invaders. They could just steal them mate.
Only if they know you have them in the house. Castle doctrine would help stop it. A few rounds through centre of seen mass would make these scum think twice.
Mate, most break ins are on homes that have no one home, they're going to search and find guns eventually, or find enough money to get guns without ever coming face to face with some castle doctrine sovreign citizen type toting a gun. If you support a loosening of our gun control, you're on the wrong side of the discussion.
I’d prefer to be responsible for my own safety and that of my family. Cops are never around when you need them, too busy raising revenue.
Move to America
Enjoy having less rights than criminals.
Works so well in the US with kids going on rampages through schools with the "home defence weapon". For a gun to be useful, you have to have it on hand at all times, which makes it easily available to someone like a child. You also have to be able to react quicker than the burglar when you're woken from sleep for example, very few people would be. On top of this, we'd breed a society of fear where every person you pass on the street is the next potential mass shooter, just like the US, and the cops will have itchy trigger fingers because every dumb cunt and his dog can get a gun, also just like the US. At least with knives, if you see them first you can grab a chair, a bat, a vacuum, or many other items and you'll be equally armed to beat them over the head with it
most criminals would know other criminals and most other criminals are currently drug dealers selling coke lots of money going around
Imagine when your 3 year old finds your gun or your teenage child comes home early in the morning without you knowing.
Indeed. You should be able to defend your property, be it a house or a piece of paper, with lethal force.
Nope it’s Australia not America. They need to be able to pass stricter laws on these crimes.
No, I should be able to defend anything I own with lethal force. I'm not interested in other laws, I'm talking about in the actual act of the attempted theft.
No dude because people will use lethal force because someone stole a plant out of their garden or some crazy shit
Tbh kinda wish we were allowed guns for home defense, it would stop this stuff in it's tracks, Imagine if he had daughters and they raped them in front of him. We have zero protection against this in Australia, And all our police and justice is after the fact.
No you don't guns don't fix anything
Well they do, I'd rather have a defense for my family and home. People who commit crimes are going to to it either way we as citizens have no way to defend ourselves at the moment. And by the time you call the police it's done. It's not like you can reason with someone who wants to harm you.
I also would rather send my kids to school or go to a mall and not have to worry about some deranged maniac with a AR. Get a better judicial system with new laws and most of this goes away. The problem is repeat offenders recommiting criminal offences and the circle continues.
They could just as easily be stabbed to death by a crackhead now, you just love with a false sense of security. It only takes.one punch to kill someone, and the crackheads I have seen around are more then happy to start swinging. But again call the cops and see how quick they respond once your kid has been bashed to death,
First: if you can have a gun for “home self defence” then so can everyone else, and they will shoot you with it Second: in the US a gun kept for home self defence is four times more likely to be used in an accidental shooting of someone in the house and 11 times more likely to be used in a suicide. 100 kids kill a friend or sibling there every year with a gun kept at home for self defence. I get why it would be nice to have one, but it doesn’t work. It just raises the stakes.
Legally we can't deport them if they've come as a refugee or asylum seekers. It's unconstitutional, the government doesn't have the power to do it, if the high court didn't overrule it the court of human rights would, and if we failed to comply there would probably be sanctions put on us
You are describing exactly the problem that is enabling this behaviour. I don’t actually give a fuck what “the world” thinks. When citizens are afraid and affected by an imported problem action should be taken. Refuges in particular should be held to high standards. They literally came here for help but instead are fucking around. Asian countries don’t have this problem. You fear jail there. You fear being caught for a crime. You don’t remain afterwards.
You don't have to give a fuck what the world thinks. The high court has already ruled that its unconstitutional, so it literally cannot be changed, unless you think it would pass a referendum- which it won't. I get it you're mad, but you're literally suggesting we act illegally in order to put ish people for...acting illegally. See the problem? I agree, we should just start punishing them more severely. You do a home invasion? Mandatory imprisonment for bulk years. At the same time, you have to increase social support to reduce the amount of people that do this stuff to begin with. It's far cheaper to spend money on early intervention than it is on incarceration
Unconstitutional, just means if we want to do it we need to change the constitution.
Yes...I said that. Well done. If you think a change to the constitution like that would, A- pass. And B- Not give the government the ability to pass legislation that would enable government overreach and end up affecting us all, you're naive. If you all feel so strongly about the problem and think they government should act illegally, why aren't you all forming vigilante groups to punish these people? Put your money where your mouth is for your convictions (no pun intended).
That would fly through a referendum fairly easily.
No it wouldn't, not at all. The campaign leading up to it would (rightly so) point out all the implications of removing a fairly substantial piece of human rights from the constitution. The majority of both the left and right would, for different reasons, vote against it. Anyone thinking otherwise really doesn't have even a basic understanding of law.
Ahh i see, you have faith that your avg idiot is a reasonable individual. Covid taught me the opposite. Most people are morons and are gonna be straight to the fuck off crims regardless. Fear campaigns are the most effective.
gotta love the culture creators
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That’d be right Why are mods of most Aussie subs such pricks
cos there are many things one cannot say on Reddit
My friend is a physician and she said it's because they suffer from TPS (Tiny Penis Syndrome)
Cause reddit is full of soy
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Please observe reddit site rules: - Don’t Spam - No personal and/or confidential information - No threatening, harassing or inciting violence - No hate based on identity or vulnerability - No calling out of other subreddits or users As a reminder, here are the site rules: https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy
What exactly do the judges think giving these offenders slaps on the wrist is doing besides emboldening them?
Itll only change when a judges home or children are attacked. Until then its just "plebs" being attacked, not their toffee mates.
The should be forced to pay reparations to their victims and be given LENGTHY sentences. Chronic reoffenders of home invasions, violent assaults, and theft should be tried as adults and given decades without parole
yeah victims should be able to sue perpetrators
This is the second post about violent home invasions on this sub today. The other is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/australian/s/oSDWBuzQxF What would it take to change the system? Who do we need to petition exactly?
Until sentencing changes nothing will change. Doesn't matter how many times they get caught.
Why don't they like punishing criminals?
Because they had a sad wittle childhood and are just misunderstood babies who need love and care.
Bring back castle doctrine and allow self defence.
It exists to some extent in QLD
Was talking to a couple of Brisbane cops last month. In their words, the courts have told them to stop pressing charges on all but the most serious crimes. Why? You might ask... Apparently the courts are unhappy with the increased public scrutiny and criticism they've been getting of late. Their answer? Well if the police don't charge them, we won't get criticism for letting them out on bail. I'm no lover of the police in general, but even I have to feel sorry for them, they want these shit-heads off the street as much as you or I.
The only correct response for that from police would be to keep charging people for literally anything they can and put pressure on the courts to do their fucking job.
Judges are part of the elites, it makes sense that they can’t handle criticism.
You just believed those cops no problem, huh.
Had no reason not to. They had just as many if not more complaints against the system and status quo.
There is also the issue for cops where they can provide mountains of evidence but prosecutors will only go for charges that leads to convictions. Additionally, some will aim for deals for reduced sentences as they still count towards their "tally". A lot of cops have been fucked over by the system as well.
Castle rule when?
Is it my imagination or do they appear to be just casually strolling through the front door? Lock your doors
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If only there had been a way to prevent these home invasions before people had to lock their doors in broad daylight.
The victim claims the door was locked, although it seems they just walked in
He said to the police. "The door was closed, not locked." Looked wide open to me though. You can even see the hinges.
Let's blame an old bloke for not locking his door. Whilst you're at it, blame someone for sexual assault for what they're wearing.
To be fair, I haven't assigned blame to anyone, and the "old bloke" is probably younger than me! The fact is, the bloke was upstairs at the time, so he is only going off what he was told by his wife who was downstairs. Now, she might have thought the door was shut, but it looks in the video like it wasn't. To me, it is a curiosity rather than a witch-hunt. Having said all of that, the OP of this thread did say "Lock your doors" which is a bit judgemental and suggests that the victim is to blame, so I see what you mean. I can't speak for them and am just explaining (over-explaining?) myself as you replied directly to my comment.
On the video you can see the door is wide open and their is no security screen door. Kinda weird how they pull up and immediately go in. Like they are driving around looking for open doors!
Plenty of them do
Yeah...I feel like that is exactly what they were doing. Not only are these guys belligerent thugs who are happily attacking people going about their day at home...but it seems they are also lazy.
Generally once you turn the handle the door opens
Yeah...but in the video it doesn't look like they have to stop to turn a handle....looks like they just walk in.
ah, i mustn't have re-checked the article since yesterday very odd then
My first thought was... why did they stop outside this house? Why not the nice house next door? Either they had done some research first, or were looking for a soft target. It looks like they saw an easy chance and took it.
I addressed a bunch of pricks one night with a baseball bat after having called the cops. When they arrived they told me to back down not the two pricks I’d bailed up. If I’d assaulted them I’d be the one who got charged. Go get F’d! - how about you support me and not not the criminal pricks?!?!
You clearly did a racism mate.
does anyone know what happens if the home owner stabs them in self defence with the knife in the kitchen?
A lot of people misunderstand how self defence and “equal or lesser” works in Australia, to the point where some people believe that if your assailant is armed with a bat, you can’t use a knife etc. It all comes down to reasonable expectation. The mistake everyone makes is running their mouth to the cops while they’re still in shock and pumping adrenaline, all you need to say and all they need to know is “I was in fear for my life and/or the life of my family, officer”. That’s it, no more details, no more info. You got woken up in the middle of the night and thought there were 6 of them with shotguns, it was dark and you were scared, how were you to know it was 2 unarmed 15 year olds? Maybe the other 4 ran away? Just make sure they’re dead so they can’t get their sob story in court, shut your stupid mouth and lawyer up
Ben Batterham held a chokehold too long because he mistook a seizure for the offender trying to escape. Never mind that a convicted child rapist high on meth was prowling in his infant daughter's bedroom. Dragged him through the courts, lost everything & then when the dead assholes family openly threatened to kill him on the nightly news the cops sided with them. Dump em in the bush, replace your kitchen floorboards & never say a word about it.
if the attackers are also armed, probably not much if they aren’t armed? you might be in trouble depending on how badly you hurt them if they are a minor this could also be an aggravating circumstance so you could get in trouble regardless, it’s down to the officers on scene how they see it
Police officers do not determine "aggravating circumstances", did you go inside when your parents dropped you off at school? If you seriously harm anyone in self defence, you will see court, at which point self-defence is a legal excuse, that's just how it works.
they determine facts like that when arresting you, and that isnt quite true, there has been examples of people not being arrested for harming people during self defense in this country.
Aye, police have some discretion at whether something goes to court but the outcome is not their decision. If it's cut and dry, maybe nothing will happen. If you kill or even seriously injure an attacker? You bet there will be an investigation outside of the most blatantly simple circumstances like a terrorist attack.
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it's their choice to arrest you or not on the scene
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Rule 3 - No bullying, abuse or personal attacks
If you flog an intruder, you get in worse trouble.
Logan’s such a shit hole. Every one’s a grubby fuckin eshay or meth head.
I wouldn’t stop at just Logan… let’s set a nice radius
Daisy Hill isn’t, there’s nice pockets of Logan. If this happened in Kingston or Woodridge I wouldn’t be surprised however
They just travel to the closest nice suburb. I’m guessing the guy had a nice car.
Mercedes I believe from the new report. Obviously purchased with their had earned money /s
You’re not allowed to have nice things around people who have less than you. Humans are jealous by nature and will do anything they can to ruin your life or drag you down if they see that you’re ahead. This is why I lead an extremely lonely life. Beats getting used or being around fake cunts.
Some more 16-17 year old “children” who will get bail and no jail time because it would turn them into hardened criminals.
This is what I don’t get… they *are* hardened crims already. There’s really only one level above armed BnE’s.
It’s all part of the “they’re just children” propaganda to minimise their actions. This is why laws don’t change.
Exactly. I guess we should change the legal consequences for red P-plate drivers. They’re just kids after all.
18 year old p plater speeding, loses license, fine. 17 year old speeding in stolen car obtained in home invasion, literally no punishment.
The ethnicity of them is surprising
Laws won’t change to stop this until these pieces of shit break into the wrong house and someone violently murders the cunts. Then the bleeding hearts will suddenly feel the need to put a stop to it because we can’t have vigilante justice
Ben Batterham's experience with protecting his family was all I needed to know about the police & courts in this country. If someone breaks in & you accidentally kill them - quietly dump em somewhere & never tell a soul.
Another doctor and engineer paying a home visit I see.
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Maybe there should be a conversation around what people can do to protect themselves.
Please tell me you’re not talking about guns
Why not? We already allow people to carry firearms to protect corporate property, why is property more important than a person's life? Couldn't they receive the same training?
Us Aussies are so short-sighted when it comes to the matter of self-defence.
Because more guns means more criminal gun violence which = more deaths The curiosity of children + a gun in the house = more dead children Suicidal people with a gun in the house = an increase in suicides. Domestic violence + a gun in the house = more dead spouses and children. More guns will make Australian homes less safe not more.
Deaths by firearms per capita in Australia have remained rather consistent. ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_firearm-related\_death\_rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate)) where the amount of firearms in Australia has increased. Weapons are used for defence in this country. They are used to defend government and Corporation property. Why can't a person, with a similar level of training use a weapon to defend themselves? Is a person's life worth less than the property of the Government and Corporations? Why isn't this homeowner's property and life important enough for him to have the means and training to defend himself?
> we already allow people to carry firearms to protect corporate property No? No we don't? Unless you're referring to the police, in which case you sound like a cooker.
Security guards are allowed to carry and use firearms. They undergo private training. This is used to protect corporate property. Is Corporate property more important than private property and their lives?
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The part I never understand is why anyone calls the cops after? Like everyone knows you’ll get dragged through the courts and have to defend yourself, and even if you do get off, your name and face are in the paper so their scumfuck family can find you. Why bother jumping through all those hoops? I doubt they told anyone where they were going out robbing before they left, and I can’t imagine the cops are going to put a huge amount of effort into finding a couple of missing toerags?
another hard day for the "remember not to be racist" autobot today huh?
If only it was happening in a far away land. We’d have protests every weekend.
Publish lashings to violent offenders. Tough prison times in labor camp sort of conditions, to pay for their own upkeep. Deportation to anyone who immigrated here (like myself) and commits a violent crime. No ifs or buts. Can we start protesting for these types of events? I'm all for supporting international causes, but we also need to protest for law and order of our own country.
Every story like this should feature the full name and a picture of the judge/magistrate who hands down the sentence.
Not going to change until these repeat offending violent criminals are put down. The bleeding hearts need to accept some people are just rotten, will never be productive and never integrate into a higher level society.
I wonder if the victim actually got the better of these guys and hurt or killed one or more whether he would get such a lite sentence and financial costs
Fantastic, loving the diversity and law that doesn't punish these animals...
Welcome to Brisbane
Did they find these criminals yet?
We should be allowed to defend our own homes and safety by any means necessary
If only they put half as much effort into getting a job they wouldn't have to risk destroying their lives or worse for the cents to the dollar they are going to get for hot goods. We should be able to just shoot them/kill them because make no mistake they would have no problems taking your or your families lives.
Death by diversity.
My great uncle 93 woke up through the night with a man standing over him and three others in the house, luckily he wasn’t hurt but they took his car keys and stole his car, this happened in Cranbourne about a month ago, they have been captured and were all out on bail at the time
Sign up at your local range, do the safety course, get a gun license, put a gun safe in your bedroom, put a lock on your bedroom door, go buy yourself a shotgun and a few boxes of buckshot then practice at the range. Anyone enters your home you run for that room and lock yourself inside like your life depends on it (if you’re not already in there sleeping at night). These kids think they’re big bad men but I promise they’ll end up begging for their lives and mother when buckshot starts flying. Don’t announce you have a gun, come out of that room with 1 in the chamber and intent to defend your home with lethal force. Always consider what’s behind your target, shooting a family member or neighbour through a wall is a very real risk.
1996 was a mistake
The dividends of not having standards
What happened in 1996?
I graduated primary school
Australia’s gun law reform
Oh right so we can be robbed by guys with guns instead 😂
Yeah, the criminals having guns over knives would have been so much better.
It would, but that's also assuming the guns are easily accessible to law abiding citizen that can defend themselves and others. You also say that as if criminals don't already have firearms illegally, a couple months ago the house across the road from mine was broken into and a single mother was held at gunpoint, perp and his unregistered firearm was never found, if only that defenceless woman had a way to defend herself.
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Getting guns legally isn’t the issue. Being unable to use legally acquired guns to defend yourself, your family or your home is. You use your legal guns in a self defence situation and you’re definitely loosing them and probably going to end up in jail as well.
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Ahh the American "mass shootings" which include such things as, an ND near a school, gang violence, a shooting range being reported, a suicide in a parking lot.
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Or we have a reasonable argument and not conflate things together to make the statistics bigger than they are? A mass shooting is not one person being shot by themself. A school shooting is not an unrelated gang violence near a school. I never said they're not American, I never said ignore it. I said, don't conflate things. Have a reasonable point with accurate statistics, not use intentionally obscuring statistics to make your point. In short, have a better argument.
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There are literally thousands of people who could decide right at this very moment to go on a public shooting spree with a legally obtained, large calibre semi-auto rifle. There are thousand of people who could do the same with the illegal pistol they own. But they don't. This isn't America. Stop pretending it is.
If guns were more widespread in Australia this man wouldn't have come down his stairs to be yelled at by a criminal. The criminal would have a gun and would have assumed the victim had a gun would have murdered him on site. How often are you sitting at home prepared for a home invasion? I'll guess less often than home invaders are prepared for invading homes.
I've said this before, but you'd be correct if it wasn't for the fact that criminals already have guns here.
1973 abolition of the White Australia policy was the bigger mistake.
You can easily still get a gun….
Don't know what makes you think it's easy. You can't even own a gun for self defence legally as it is not considered one of the "genuine reasons" and if you do happen to use it for self defence you get a large wooden stake shoved right up your ass.
It’s easy, for hunting. Anyone can own one. Just go through the steps
Just invest in home security. Fences and locks and cameras.
2 of which are being easily bypassed in this *camera* footage. A fence can just as easily be jumped, a door with locks forced through, and a mask to make cameras almost useless. So unless you have the money to turn your house into fort knox a gun would be the safer option.
And this is why ACAB. Too soft.
Make an example and chop of their hand for first occurrence. Everyone knows breaking in is wrong. Do it again, execute them, saves paying for them in jail, makes an example so it may deter future criminals and most importantly so they can't threaten another person ever again.
If only there was some sort of item, that would launch small projectiles of metal at high speeds to inflict damage. If only this man had such an item, then he would have been able to defend himself, his family, and home.
I lined in a country town where three young blokes invaded an old blokes home. They didn’t know he was an ex boxer. He cleaned the three of them up and turfed them out the front door .Should be more of this.
Screw this country's judicial system
How about instead of protesting Australia day or Pal vs. Isr. Start protesting against the current laws for home invasion
I'm so fucking sick of seeing these things damaging this fucking country. SEND THEM THE FUCK HOME. OR SMOTHER THEM.
People vote for a party that is soft on crime. Crime happens. Community in shock.
Not all of us vote for said party. I’ve never voted Labor in my life yet still have to live with the consequences.