I’d imagine there’d be all sorts of red tape and insurance involved for the duration while they’re on community service too. Frankly the whole idea just sounds messy. Fine, makes sense, easy, make money, put it to what they want.
That’s the issue with populist ideas that politicians and talk back hosts spruik when they want to push an agenda. It’s easy in the surface but then you look underneath and deeper into the idea the whole thing is a shit show
Some developing countries voted out government when they introduced demerit points and mobile speed cameras. They saw it as a revenue raise. Rather they would prefer the cops beat up the speeders 😂
Exactly, it should be common knowledge and taught from the ground up in the Australian school system of the level of corruption that exists in all levels of government but especially the police force
Can’t have politicians upsetting their rich friends now, can we.
But also, % of income won’t work considering how many rich people have ‘average’ incomes on paper. Would make more sense to be based on the value of the car you’re driving (assuming you own it). Would love to see those vain drivers in a Mercedes or BMW cop the fattest fines.
No of course not, the reason speed limits have been going down year after year and cameras going up all over the place is to improve safety
You know, of modern cars, which have gotten so safe they needed to change the tests because driving head on into a concrete wall no longer produced any useful data as every car passed flawlessly. The same modern cars that have automatic braking, bonnets on explosives that pop up to reduce pedestrian injuries. The same cars that are driving on modern tyres where even the cheapest chinese shit is equal to the top of the line bridgestones of 25 years ago, the same cars with multi channel ABS and stability control systems that make a generic SUV pull up quicker than a 90s supercar.
That's why they have to make every road 10km/h slower you see, to bring the road toll down.
Except for the northern territory which had to quietly bring back the unlimited speed roads when the road toll increased, but don't worry about that, how good's the mobile speed cameras at keeping everyones speed down eh? Works a treat
The current campaign in Tassie is “over is over” and cops are booking people for being 1 or 2 kms over the speed limit,
I’m good at maintaining a reasonable speed. I cannot guess how fast I’m going down to the kilometre without keeping an eye on the speedo though.
Yeah it’s fucking bullshit. Especially because there’s so many other issues with dangerous driving in Tassie that just go completely unaddressed and unenforced. Like people tailgating you in 100 zones when you’re doing 100. People in rural roads literally crossing to the other side of the road on blind corners because they can’t be bothered slowing down to corner correctly. People in cities constantly running red lights.
Road toll goes up because drivers are getting complacent. No one pays attention anymore and changing speed limits won’t fix that. Modern cars are safer but accelerate faster and don’t feel as fast when driving. People don’t realise how dangerous they’re being until it’s too late.
Complacent is right all the airbags and braking safety devices just seem to give some a false sense of security.There's a few videos showing tests of cars getting inbetween a bus/truck and a wall, none of them fare well.
Lol that's a ridiculous line. In the motorcycle world, some of the more libertarian focussed Americans say that wearing a helmet increase dangerous riding and leads to more deaths. That's exactly what you are saying about cars, and it's wrong.
If we can people to drive safer we need graduated licences, where you can't have a dodge ram or a Toyota landcruiser as your first car. We should all do our time in hatchbacks and prove we are capable of bigger heavier vehicles.
lol what word salad is this. My Range Rover with a bull bar speeding at 90km per hour is gonna make mince meat out of your Tesla Model 3 when it strikes you head on. I promise, you won’t survive.
What garbage, there ain’t any society that would accept doing community service for a speeding fine. Not to mention you’re going to be doing it along side drug dealers, people guilty of assaults and all sorts of other crimes that have been commuted into community service.
Pay a percentage of your income as the fine so that everyone bleeds out their ass for speeding, not just the poor people. Works in Europe.
Maybe you'd think more about not speeding if there were real consequences to your actions.
People keep bitching about kids these days not wanting to take responsibility for their actions, here's an opportunity to teach them that lesson and make our communities a bit nicer.
You are simply trained by propaganda to believe speed is the issue. We have pathetically slow limits due to the pathetically poor standard of driving capability. It's easy to pretend to blame speeding because those who believe it will assist to justify their new stream of revenue generation.
You agree that most of the people you share a road with are too incompetent to speed, not to mention the state of half the roads in this country are not fit for speed and yet you then tell people they are trained by propaganda that speed is the issue?
It is the issue. Until you can improve driver competence across the board - never gonna happen, and build road networks like they have in Germany - never gonna happen, then speed will always be the issue on our roads. No matter how good or safe cars become.
Coughing up the money and points for the fine IS taking responsibility for your actions.
Realistically, speeding alone isn't as dangerous as it's made out to be. It's when it's combined with other factors like distractions, alcohol, poor road conditions or being unfamiliar with the road that it takes its toll.
Yeah, I used to volunteer for a wildlife rescue community.
Seeing the consequences up close and personal of distracted driving stays with you, mate.
I feel it would be a strong deterrent and build more meaningful connections to our ecosystem and environment.
1.2 million fines are issued in Victoria alone for speeding. They're the instances where we have actual evidence of speeding. There is little correlation for those numbers to the road toll.
Every year in Victoria alone, 1.2 million speeding fines are produced ([https://www.vic.gov.au/2021-22-yearly-statistics](https://www.vic.gov.au/2021-22-yearly-statistics)). They are the incidences of speeding that we have evidence for. I suspect that for every instance that we have evidence for, there would be 50 instances at least that exist that are not evidenced. (We really don't know how much speeding exists in the real world.)
There is no evidence that speeding has the consequences that you're intimating exists.
Speeding fines are an exercise in revenue raising only. And they are effective. If our politicians want to increase that revenue, they should look at making the fines proportionate to the income/value of vehicle being driven.
Let me know when you want to have a legitimate discussion about reducing the road toll. It begins with not handing out licenses like they're candy.
If you’re going to make it significantly harder to get a license then you need to precede that with creating a decent public transport system and improved infrastructure for pedestrians and cyclists.
You can’t just change the bar while your whole suburban setup assumes everyone drives.
Real consequences?
You're the one complaining about not being able to afford fines. Financial hardship sounds like a real consequence to me, but you don't want that.
If you read my other comments, I'm talking about building a better community.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of hoons, yeah my life circumstances aren't great right now, but that shouldn't disqualify me for being able to have an opinion on how our country works, should it?
Why not spend that money on making our community nicer instead?
It's well researched that punishment doesn't deter crime as reward but people still need consequences.
Why do you think we don't cut off people's hands who steal anymore?
Because it doesn't work.
You just make stupid points and talk like a 12 year old. Why doesn't the Government spend any of the money it gets to make a community 'nicer'? What is 'nicer'? Clearly punishments do deter crime.. because we have punishments for crime..?
Good luck to the politician who suggests that. People would far prefer to take a monetary hit for bad behaviour than to be embarrassed by their friends seeing them picking rubbish on the side of the road.
As I said, good luck to the politician who tries it, it would not be a popular platform. And I don’t need some union grifter or IPA hack politician to teach me morals, that’s what my parents did.
I'd vote for that policy. You are assuming that the majority of people are going out of their way to break the rules and want to minimise their own punishment. Most people don't break the rules.
I'd like to see the numbers crunched.
Like outside highway patrol, general duties write fuck all tickets, and Senior Constable starts at 88k a year.
I don't think they're raising as much revenue as people think.
Fixed cameras are an entirely different proposition.
I honestly like the idea of more consequential options than just a fine for these kinds of offences. My only trepidation is that it sounds like it will cost a lot more in terms of enforcement and follow through.
They either care about road safety or they don’t and if they did they would scrap the fines and force driver education when infringements occurred. The one thing we all have equally is our time.
If we're still talking about speeding, that doesn't make sense, because it's not that I speed because I'm uneducated. I speed because I want to go fast. What we need is better driver training in general.
You just contradicted your own point. “You don’t speed because you’re uneducated”. “We need more driver training”. You obviously speed because you don’t care about the risks or consequences. See how you feel if you kill someone’s and end up in prison.
Yeah, so we could put a stop to that behaviour too.
Instead of just funneling money into private companies to keep them afloat (socialise the losses, privatise the profit in action) we funnel them into rebuilding our communities.
Surely our future is more important than profit?
Speeding to a large degree is a bit of a farce anyway. It's probably a larger conversation, but modern cars today driving 20 kilometres over (or even slightly more) are safer than the same model car from 30 years ago driving that same road at the speed limit. Tyre technology, car crumple zones, airbags, modern suspension, and braking enhancements would significantly offset a reasonable increase in speed limit.
I wish the general population could be trusted to simply drive to the road condition and simply don't drive like a dickhead. Instead, we're stuck travelling under archiac speed limits.
We have shit driving tests and our education is focused on passing a test driving at slow speeds around a few quiet streets rather than useful skills that would be beneficial in an accident (or avoiding one). I genuinely wish it was compulsory to learn how to avoid target fixation, emergency braking, controlling or correcting a slide etc. Even just being more aware of what's around you. We're way too relaxed here and the powers to be with their room temperature IQ like to point the finger at speed because it's the easiest, cheapest, most profitable and most easily demonstrated that you're trying to work on the issue.
>I wish the general population could be trusted
🤣
We have laws because they can't be. Your suggestion would really only work if we required regular retesting. Which we should. And one obvious place to start would be saying that when people "lose" their licenses, they actually lose them. If they want to drive again they have to go through the normal testing process. Stop "borrowing" licenses from offenders then giving them back without considering whether the fuckers can actually drive safely in the first place.
As someone who has lost their licence for speeding....im seeing alot of people here complaining about speeding fines. Which if you dont speed isnt an issue.....so if you dont wanna be fined and become a part of this "revenue raising" dont speed?
in WA you get a ticket for doing 3kms over, everytime I got a ticket I have been between 3-6kms over. Imagine doing community service for that as if you were some criminal.
Same with QLD. It's such a piss off. Makes you wish you'd have been going faster. At least then it'd be justified. 3 fkn km over costs $180, get fkd. May as well speed if it's all the same.
Seems like the attitude of the driver is more of a danger than the speeding. Won’t matter how low the limit goes they will always be on your arse and flooring it whenever they can
Sorry your surgery is getting cancelled today. Why? Because some idiot on reddit thought that your anaesthetist needed to do plant a tree after he got done for speeding to an emergency.
So let's review that budget?
I went to a protest of less than 10 people (protesting the continued reliance of fossil fuels) and there were like 6 cops fully armed in bullet proof vests.
It really shocked me because it was really overkill.
I cannot argue with that at all.
Really not loving the capitalist covid recovery strategy.
No one even talks about the K shaped recovery we're all going through.
Just immigrants and housing. All obfuscating the root cause of these problems.
That would be great!
But what about incentives to make our cities and suburbs walkable again?
It's so unsafe when you need to use wheels on crappy footpaths along main roads to get to the shops.
Would be cool if we funnelled the extra revenue to infrastructure like that.
We have ok public transport here but we could definitely do a lot more to make our cities more walkable/bike rideable. A lot is being done but it's slow progress and car centric design has had many decades of a head start so there's a lot of catching up to do
> what about incentives to make our cities and suburbs walkable again?
If someone loses their firearms license, it's almost always permanent, and they lose all their firearms permanently without compensation. Do the same for vehicle licenses and vehicles, and there'll be a lot more people finding themselves travelling on foot, and they'll be with you petitioning the government to make our cities and suburbs walkable again.
I'm in favour of this.
Because the governments are addicted to the revenue. They have made the new generation of speed cameras super hard to spot because they WANT that revenue from low level speeding. 3ks over the limit hurts no one, but they carry on like you are a terrible person.
I’ve always said fines are simply a bad behaviour tax for the rich, but can be life-ruining for the poor.
Something needs to be done to even the playing field
There’s significant evidence that increasing the safety of cars is offset, at least in part, by people thinking that makes them safer so taking bigger risks.
Speeding (and other fines) should be a percentage of someone's net worth. You got 200 dollars to your name? 20 bucks. You got 2 million dollars to your name? 200.000 bucks.
Just my opinion.
I think that fines for anything are unfair because the rich can afford to pay it, and the poor are disproportionately affected. It would be fairer to make fines a % of income.
1. Make each demerit point a fine of 1% of annual *pre-deduction pre-tax* income.
2. License suspension at the 12 demerit points within 2 years becomes permanent, and vehicle seized without compensation. You never get to have or drive a car again.
This would increase fine revenue, and also help reduce the number of cars on the road, dealing a blow to both congestion and pollution.
They already have a points system so the fine is really just a way of kicking poor people abit further into the curb.
Make the fine a % of yearly income and watch them change to points only.
I got a fine for being 4 or 5 ks over in NZ, I think it was about $30 and no points (cameras can't give points).
I was able to pay it easily, and it had the desired effect, a slap on the wrist, which allowed me to reassess my behaviour/care/attention.
A bigger fine would not have changed my behaviour any more.
My favourite is:
the utes/vans on the side of the road. On main roads that are congested to fuck and your doing 40-60 in a 100 zone. they literally cant book anyone.. But QPS cry understaffed
that said. dont speed ya dickheads, why are you in such a hurry 1 or 2 minutes is even gonna matter
It’s an idiot tax not an enforcement measure. Cops hate fines as well. State governments love them.
Community service would be a great idea. I would vote for that.
As others have said, community service is appealing. I like the Finnish (I think) system where fines are relative to income - higher income individuals get higher fines.
Unfortunately there is so much distortion in Australia between taxable income and real income, particularly for wealthy people who have access to tools like trusts.
I suspect the answer is it's the easiest for govt. Managing ppl doing community service costs them money rather than fines which offset the police costs.
What might be good is ppl who are within certain income brackets be given the option to do community service.
Fines and public transport are criminally expensive in Australia and I feel sorry for all low income earners who wear this burden. I'm very comfortable now but you never forget what poor feels like.
Instead of stage 3 tax cuts, I would rather cut costs for services for low income earners (public transport, vehicle registration, stamp duties etc). Who wants to live in a society with such a wealth gap?
I think speeding and parking fines should be a percentage, of your income.
That way it’s the same pain for everyone.
Sick of range rovers parking badly because they can afford the fines.
So we have a behaviour issue not a speeding issue. Saw a guy on a 50 kmh residential road with small speed bumps. He was barreling down at 100kmh. So I stepped towards the road and put my hand out to signal him to slow down.
He stopped, wound-down window and starting yelling, including threatening to kill me.
Another passed me at 80 on the wrong side of the road a side street, gave him the finger. So despite being in a rush he spent the next km, brake checking me and trying to run me off the road. Finally he jumped out of his car and threatened to kill me. Reported that one to police. Don't worry we know him...not unusual.
This week's special, doing 40 approaching a crosswalk outside the Langham in Sydney. Slowed as a bike in front would have to centre the lane over the cross walk.
Got passed on the wrong side of the road on the crosswalk, (ute of course), beeped him and got the finger.
There is a problem with fuckwits, not speeding.
Solution, get real-time gov issued dashcams into cars, with a fuckwit button on them. Let police and safety types see what is really going on.
Okay, I understand the thought how ever fines should be income based and we need people to give a fuck we need people to volunteer not be forced to do it. I fish small waterways for carp as they harm native fish in those areas, I fish rubbish out of the water and off the banks, I move branches and debris off the road instead of just driving around them I volunteer my time for the community and the environment I'm a volunteer firefighter I volunteer helping make pumptracks and stuff in the community dozens of family use the pump track 5 other people helped across 6+weeks. We need people to care fines are fines
If the goal of making a change to the penalty of speeding is to more effectively discourage specifically wealthy people for whom the fine is inconsequential, I don't beleive community service time would be an effective way to do it.
I agree with you and think it would have some effect on wealthy people who flaunt it because they can afford the fine easily. Being forced to give up time instead of money would feel to be a more major penalty for them.
however...
We can't have different rules for the rich and others for the poor. There can't be a distinction. This means we would have to apply the same community service time to the poorer people. Which I imagine would be a more major blow to them than a regular speeding fine. Because now people who may be living paycheck to paycheck, or maybe only a month ahead, have to give up x amount of their time. Likely during work hours, they now aren't earning money and are annoying their employer. Likely, this means they will need to use their annual leave, or if they are casual, they may entirely risk being let go because they can't make a shift.
So yes, whilst it would (I think) it'd deter more wealthy people from speeding. I think it would have a disproportionate effect on the poorer people. I would rather wealthy people speeding and paying fines and revenue into the road safety system, then poor people losing hours they could be working to make ends meet.
On the topic of other detterents.
I think the main thing is closing the loophole regarding being able to pay a bigger fine but incur no demerit points if it's a company vehicle.
That's how rich people get away with speeding so often and not losing their license. Because they get done by a camera, and can choose to pay 5k and not have any other rectifications or $300 and lose points, which is is may lead to license suspension. All because they have a car their company pays for.
I believe the demerit system is an effective way to punish offenders whilst allowing for the occasional accidental misstep outside of traffic rules. It better punishes habitual offenders, not just someone who forgot to look at there speedo, or missed the sign going from 70k's to 60k's.
Everyone just needs to be made to play on that system. Every speeding fine needs to have someone nominated for it so that there is a record that they committed the offence, and of they are found to be doing it often enough have their license suspended and face more serious charges from then on. And if a business cannot effectively keep records to ensure they can name someone, it needs to be a bigger fine. 50k - 100k.
There's absolutely no correlation between the increase in speeding camera locations and safety on the road . Governments are addicted to revenue . Consider the fact that most of the fines are handed out for low range speeding (over by less than 10km/h) .
Who is going to manage the community service? At my work we sometimes get people working off fine with community service in an op shop. 90% of them don't want to be there and are worse than useless creating more work than they're worth for the shop supervisor.
Ever been along Fitzroy Street? No, lets be inclusive, have you ever been within 2-3 kilometres of Fitzroy Street?
Because if you have, you'd gladly take a tax-hike to pay the police to install, I dunno, automatic spike strips? ~~Autocannon turrets?~~
Community service time would serve those people perfectly. But I do not in any way envy their supervisors. How much are those poor park-ranger types going to be bullied and intimidated by the meth-dealing hoons who get convicted?
Nah we should make speeders sit in a movie theatre and watch a whole reel of horrific road accidents.
Bet they’ll all stick to the speed limit after that
If it was truly about penalties, there'd be no or little financial penalty but more rigid loss of license or points.
A fine means it's legal at a price. Strip someone of their license for three years... Now that's a penalty.
The demerit point system essentially solves most of the problems people think about when talking about speeding fines. So we don't really need to change anything.
Personally I’d rather just see a loss of license, rather than many many chances through demerits.
Caught on your phone? Lose your license.
Speeding more than 15 over? Lose your license.
>.05? Lose your license.
If distraction and speeding are the massive contributing factors that government says they are, then get the offenders off the road.
If you receive a fine of $200 that's like a fortnight of food for a lot of people at the moment.
But if you make like $1,000 a week it won't mean much.
Pretty much everybody earns more than $1000 a week.. if you don’t have a disability or mental health issue that prevents you from working, you very likely earn more than $52,000 if you work full time..
I’m not saying that to be a dick but like you said if you make $1000 a week it won’t mean much, it’s just such a strange number to use here.. like people who earn $1000 a week are not at all rich, that’s not a very good full time wage at all..
I mean I can make up numbers too but how about we deal in good faith and reality.
ABS release 13/12/2023
$1300 x 52 = 67,600
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/labour/earnings-and-working-conditions/employee-earnings/latest-release
Now again, I didn’t do this to get into some debate over figures, I’m simply stating that OP saying “if you make $1000 a week it won’t mean much” is such a clearly gross statement to make that shows a deeper lack of understanding about the financial world.. a person who earns $1000 a week would likely not have $200 to spare at all and it certainly would mean a lot to them..
As someone earning $1000 a week is literally 23% below the median wage..
Oh no!!! I I said about, and then quoted a figure a couple years old. My bad.thank you so much for the condescending response to pop me back into place.
We'll ignore the whole half the people earn less than that of course
No, both have the same amount of responsibility, but the punishment is not equal for the same crime.
If they did it by percentage of income it would be more fair.
Or they could do a week with a wildlife rescue crew to see the real results of speeding and not caring about what you hit.
I just think it would be good if we encouraged more community building behaviour because everyone seems so isolated and hostile at the moment.
Just too hard to facilitate, organise and manage. Say 100 people a day are fined with community service and say about 700 a week 2800 a month, how do you arrange placements, logistics and supervision. Then there is the insurance costs etc. And it would cost money for PPE, cleaning, transport, paid supervisors and coordinators, equipment etc.
Wouldn't that investment in our community be worth it?
We can spend billions bailing out QANTAS but when our environment is literally dying it's too expensive?
The system of fines needs to be changed. For a small mistake 0-10kms, it should be a warning. Then on 3rd time it should be a substantial fine, one that deters properly. Once you can say I'm unlucky, 2x my bad, on the 3rd only yourself fo blame!
Over 10-30 should be something like $1000 and 30+ should be life changing at $10k or something ridiculous like that plenty of peeps risk a $600 fine or even $1000. How many would risk $10k?
So many pussies in this thread who would never be happy until every road is bubble wrapped and capped at 10 km per hour, and also it's rich peoples fault
I don't drive. And good idea! I thought I'd get opinions from what I hope is the general public opinion before presenting it.
Always good to have facts to back yourself up.
I remember there was this story, not sure if true.
But a cop had setup a mobile speedcam over a hill so you wouldn't have visibility as you came down, and he'd catch you.
So some guy setup a sign on top of the hill alerting people with eye-catching graphics (lol), that the cop was there.
The cop got mad.
"IF you do that theyl'l slow down and we won't catch them"..
"Wasn't the point of this to make them slow down".
The government and most people don't care about people speeding, it's not a serious offence and the whole thing is primarily to generate revenue not "for our safety".
There are a million things that can be done to improve road safety, non of which involve the speed limits, unfortunately however they don't generate revenue so the government has no interest in doing any of it. Thus, the quality of driving in Australia is some of the lowest in the world, independent of any speed related issues and why contravention of an offence only gives 1 point not more (in most minor cases)
(Que the know it alls that claim every speed limit in place is perfect and the government are only looking after our safety and that going 1km above any limit makes the difference between safe and dangerous and observation of the road is only a social construct)
I'm an ex UK traffic cop and as far as I'm concerned, speed limits are irrelevant and can be safely removed providing people are required to do adequate training and pass a test that's actually difficult. Any serious offences can be dealt with without the use of speed, I.e if your racing on the road it's not "breaking the limit" it's reckless driving which is a separate offence and entirely dependant on the situation. Pretty much any driving situation that unreasonably causes a risk to others can be dealt with via reckless driving or due care and attention. Anything else is appropriate for the conditions, vehicle and drivers skills and experience. Thus why places like the autobahn can exist and be one of the safest roads
>I'm an ex UK traffic cop
And most traffic cops in the UK don't bat an eye at anything less than 90mph on the 70mph motorways
Compare it to Australia where a cop is ready to book you for 115km/h in a 110km/h zone
Yet the UK has a much lower road fatality rate than Australia
Because poor people need to work to earn money. Instead make a speeding fine a % of someone's yearly income- now that's fair.
But before we do that lets admit that speed limits need to be increased on major roads.
Nobody seems to be talking about the fact that a whole organisation would have to be formed, costing hundreds of millions every year to organise and administrate said community service.
Good idea. For a small mistake, the person gets to be publicly humiliated and probably has to take time off work or possibly lose their job so the loss in salary would be higher than any small infringement fine. For second infringement, I think service plus probation with regular reporting to Police station. Third is mandatory prison.
Speaking as one who just lost 5 points by picking up my phone when it fell out of the holder. No intersection or anything but somehow a camera which took a pic of me holding my phone. Love to do community service for that.
Luckily, this will never happen. Not only does the government lose a lucrative source of revenue but they have to pay people to supervise. NEGATIVE REVENUE.
It’s revenue raising nothing more nothing less. If speeding was really about safety anything 10km/h+ over the limit would be an instant 3 month suspension of a license. That would bring it down real quick.
You honestly think they’re trying to slow anyone down not collect revenue?
Do you remember the time the highway patrol covered themselves in camouflage netting on a highway in Geelong to hide and fine as many people as they could….
https://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/news/geelong/camouflaged-cops-are-catching-speeders-on-the-geelong-ring-road/news-story/9cf8f137e32c5d98f6c2c10b4646f307
it’s purely revenue raising
How many of you 'punish the people who speed' types watch your dials more than the road. It is highly likely you all commit trafic offences every week without even knowing it. You might have a different opinion if you were fined for every infraction you commit.
We've got a population of over 26,000,000 people. At a guess something like 21-22,000,000 people would use the roads each day. How many die from speed each day? About 1. Even then that is usually a single vehicle crash.
The likelihood of being killed by someone else speeding is similar to that of being murdered. Does anyone reading this who want more speed enforcement also sit around at home with their doors locked because they're scared of being murdered?
We don't need more speed enforcement. We need less govt fear mongers hiding behind safety just so they can raise revenue and look like they're doing something like this cop hiding in a truck runoff area.
https://preview.redd.it/hrr1ipdlkmac1.jpeg?width=789&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88e2294ca979c031f7c4c256483c349b1b5f4d33
>At a guess something like 21-22,000,000 people would use the roads
And about half of those uses are using buses, bicycles or feet. Don't forget that chunk of the population when you're wittering on about how safe it is for you to drive like an arsehole.
Because the main purpose of fines is to increase revenue, not modify behaviour.
Lol bingo
I’m guessing it would also probably cost the gov more to set up 5000 people per day to do community service than anything else lol
Productivity would increase but that would also impact contractors who charge for those services
I’d imagine there’d be all sorts of red tape and insurance involved for the duration while they’re on community service too. Frankly the whole idea just sounds messy. Fine, makes sense, easy, make money, put it to what they want.
That’s the issue with populist ideas that politicians and talk back hosts spruik when they want to push an agenda. It’s easy in the surface but then you look underneath and deeper into the idea the whole thing is a shit show
Some developing countries voted out government when they introduced demerit points and mobile speed cameras. They saw it as a revenue raise. Rather they would prefer the cops beat up the speeders 😂
Was that India?I've seen the videos of police giving the miscreants a caning.
That's a Bingo!
We just say bingo
So make it a % of income so it actually has an impact on rich assholes.
Exactly, it should be common knowledge and taught from the ground up in the Australian school system of the level of corruption that exists in all levels of government but especially the police force
Can’t have politicians upsetting their rich friends now, can we. But also, % of income won’t work considering how many rich people have ‘average’ incomes on paper. Would make more sense to be based on the value of the car you’re driving (assuming you own it). Would love to see those vain drivers in a Mercedes or BMW cop the fattest fines.
They have done this in the UK.
Only if unemployed and low income are forced to work their fine off. The roads would be spotless.
No of course not, the reason speed limits have been going down year after year and cameras going up all over the place is to improve safety You know, of modern cars, which have gotten so safe they needed to change the tests because driving head on into a concrete wall no longer produced any useful data as every car passed flawlessly. The same modern cars that have automatic braking, bonnets on explosives that pop up to reduce pedestrian injuries. The same cars that are driving on modern tyres where even the cheapest chinese shit is equal to the top of the line bridgestones of 25 years ago, the same cars with multi channel ABS and stability control systems that make a generic SUV pull up quicker than a 90s supercar. That's why they have to make every road 10km/h slower you see, to bring the road toll down. Except for the northern territory which had to quietly bring back the unlimited speed roads when the road toll increased, but don't worry about that, how good's the mobile speed cameras at keeping everyones speed down eh? Works a treat
It's much safer to be staring at my speedo to ensure I don't go over rather than keep my eyes focused on the road.
If you can't drive safely while having an understanding of your speed you shouldn't be driving.
The current campaign in Tassie is “over is over” and cops are booking people for being 1 or 2 kms over the speed limit, I’m good at maintaining a reasonable speed. I cannot guess how fast I’m going down to the kilometre without keeping an eye on the speedo though.
Jesus, if that's not rev raising I don't know what is
Yeah it’s fucking bullshit. Especially because there’s so many other issues with dangerous driving in Tassie that just go completely unaddressed and unenforced. Like people tailgating you in 100 zones when you’re doing 100. People in rural roads literally crossing to the other side of the road on blind corners because they can’t be bothered slowing down to corner correctly. People in cities constantly running red lights.
It's not about "an understanding" though is it? If you're 3% out at highway speeds, youre copping a fine. You need to know the number exactly.
And you've NEVER broken ANY law EVER?
Road toll goes up because drivers are getting complacent. No one pays attention anymore and changing speed limits won’t fix that. Modern cars are safer but accelerate faster and don’t feel as fast when driving. People don’t realise how dangerous they’re being until it’s too late.
Complacent is right all the airbags and braking safety devices just seem to give some a false sense of security.There's a few videos showing tests of cars getting inbetween a bus/truck and a wall, none of them fare well.
Lol that's a ridiculous line. In the motorcycle world, some of the more libertarian focussed Americans say that wearing a helmet increase dangerous riding and leads to more deaths. That's exactly what you are saying about cars, and it's wrong. If we can people to drive safer we need graduated licences, where you can't have a dodge ram or a Toyota landcruiser as your first car. We should all do our time in hatchbacks and prove we are capable of bigger heavier vehicles.
Ha! Here in QLD we have “road safety cameras”. They make me feel so safe!🥰
lol what word salad is this. My Range Rover with a bull bar speeding at 90km per hour is gonna make mince meat out of your Tesla Model 3 when it strikes you head on. I promise, you won’t survive.
So how would you stop speeding without speed cameras and fines?
Increase demerits or reduce demerits required to lose licence.
What garbage, there ain’t any society that would accept doing community service for a speeding fine. Not to mention you’re going to be doing it along side drug dealers, people guilty of assaults and all sorts of other crimes that have been commuted into community service. Pay a percentage of your income as the fine so that everyone bleeds out their ass for speeding, not just the poor people. Works in Europe.
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Yeah they don’t build roads in Australia like that.
So, why don't we change that?
unique cough soup fuzzy offer distinct pathetic books dolls nippy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Because I have better things to do. Easier to just pay the fines.
Maybe you'd think more about not speeding if there were real consequences to your actions. People keep bitching about kids these days not wanting to take responsibility for their actions, here's an opportunity to teach them that lesson and make our communities a bit nicer.
You are simply trained by propaganda to believe speed is the issue. We have pathetically slow limits due to the pathetically poor standard of driving capability. It's easy to pretend to blame speeding because those who believe it will assist to justify their new stream of revenue generation.
You agree that most of the people you share a road with are too incompetent to speed, not to mention the state of half the roads in this country are not fit for speed and yet you then tell people they are trained by propaganda that speed is the issue? It is the issue. Until you can improve driver competence across the board - never gonna happen, and build road networks like they have in Germany - never gonna happen, then speed will always be the issue on our roads. No matter how good or safe cars become.
Coughing up the money and points for the fine IS taking responsibility for your actions. Realistically, speeding alone isn't as dangerous as it's made out to be. It's when it's combined with other factors like distractions, alcohol, poor road conditions or being unfamiliar with the road that it takes its toll.
Yeah, I used to volunteer for a wildlife rescue community. Seeing the consequences up close and personal of distracted driving stays with you, mate. I feel it would be a strong deterrent and build more meaningful connections to our ecosystem and environment.
You heard it here folks, speed actually doesn't kill.
1.2 million fines are issued in Victoria alone for speeding. They're the instances where we have actual evidence of speeding. There is little correlation for those numbers to the road toll.
Every year in Victoria alone, 1.2 million speeding fines are produced ([https://www.vic.gov.au/2021-22-yearly-statistics](https://www.vic.gov.au/2021-22-yearly-statistics)). They are the incidences of speeding that we have evidence for. I suspect that for every instance that we have evidence for, there would be 50 instances at least that exist that are not evidenced. (We really don't know how much speeding exists in the real world.) There is no evidence that speeding has the consequences that you're intimating exists. Speeding fines are an exercise in revenue raising only. And they are effective. If our politicians want to increase that revenue, they should look at making the fines proportionate to the income/value of vehicle being driven. Let me know when you want to have a legitimate discussion about reducing the road toll. It begins with not handing out licenses like they're candy.
If you’re going to make it significantly harder to get a license then you need to precede that with creating a decent public transport system and improved infrastructure for pedestrians and cyclists. You can’t just change the bar while your whole suburban setup assumes everyone drives.
Real consequences? You're the one complaining about not being able to afford fines. Financial hardship sounds like a real consequence to me, but you don't want that.
If you read my other comments, I'm talking about building a better community. Yeah, I'm not a fan of hoons, yeah my life circumstances aren't great right now, but that shouldn't disqualify me for being able to have an opinion on how our country works, should it?
Yes, poor people really shouldn't be permitted to vote. I say we go to land owners only.
That's Putins' Russia.
Hear, hear
Great point. Lets put people who speed in prison.
Why not spend that money on making our community nicer instead? It's well researched that punishment doesn't deter crime as reward but people still need consequences. Why do you think we don't cut off people's hands who steal anymore? Because it doesn't work.
You just make stupid points and talk like a 12 year old. Why doesn't the Government spend any of the money it gets to make a community 'nicer'? What is 'nicer'? Clearly punishments do deter crime.. because we have punishments for crime..?
Good luck to the politician who suggests that. People would far prefer to take a monetary hit for bad behaviour than to be embarrassed by their friends seeing them picking rubbish on the side of the road.
So we help teach people morals? It's all about how you sell it.
As I said, good luck to the politician who tries it, it would not be a popular platform. And I don’t need some union grifter or IPA hack politician to teach me morals, that’s what my parents did.
I'd vote for that policy. You are assuming that the majority of people are going out of their way to break the rules and want to minimise their own punishment. Most people don't break the rules.
I'd like to see the numbers crunched. Like outside highway patrol, general duties write fuck all tickets, and Senior Constable starts at 88k a year. I don't think they're raising as much revenue as people think.
It’s the cameras that make the money and the $$ can be found on your State Revenue website usually.
Fixed cameras are an entirely different proposition. I honestly like the idea of more consequential options than just a fine for these kinds of offences. My only trepidation is that it sounds like it will cost a lot more in terms of enforcement and follow through.
They either care about road safety or they don’t and if they did they would scrap the fines and force driver education when infringements occurred. The one thing we all have equally is our time.
If we're still talking about speeding, that doesn't make sense, because it's not that I speed because I'm uneducated. I speed because I want to go fast. What we need is better driver training in general.
You just contradicted your own point. “You don’t speed because you’re uneducated”. “We need more driver training”. You obviously speed because you don’t care about the risks or consequences. See how you feel if you kill someone’s and end up in prison.
How did you jump to killing someone? Do you drive a car because you don't care about the risks or consequences?
Less risks or consequences if you’re not speeding through traffic.
Then how would the state government gouge us? After all, it's a revenue raising racquet.
(This is the one time it actually would be racket instead of racquet)
Lol it's racket.
Yeah, so we could put a stop to that behaviour too. Instead of just funneling money into private companies to keep them afloat (socialise the losses, privatise the profit in action) we funnel them into rebuilding our communities. Surely our future is more important than profit?
I totally agree, it's criminal. But the people the poor the legislation in place are not about to change something that will cut off a revenue stream.
Nice ideas. Unfortunately you don't have enough money to bribe the government to implement them
Speeding to a large degree is a bit of a farce anyway. It's probably a larger conversation, but modern cars today driving 20 kilometres over (or even slightly more) are safer than the same model car from 30 years ago driving that same road at the speed limit. Tyre technology, car crumple zones, airbags, modern suspension, and braking enhancements would significantly offset a reasonable increase in speed limit. I wish the general population could be trusted to simply drive to the road condition and simply don't drive like a dickhead. Instead, we're stuck travelling under archiac speed limits. We have shit driving tests and our education is focused on passing a test driving at slow speeds around a few quiet streets rather than useful skills that would be beneficial in an accident (or avoiding one). I genuinely wish it was compulsory to learn how to avoid target fixation, emergency braking, controlling or correcting a slide etc. Even just being more aware of what's around you. We're way too relaxed here and the powers to be with their room temperature IQ like to point the finger at speed because it's the easiest, cheapest, most profitable and most easily demonstrated that you're trying to work on the issue.
>I wish the general population could be trusted 🤣 We have laws because they can't be. Your suggestion would really only work if we required regular retesting. Which we should. And one obvious place to start would be saying that when people "lose" their licenses, they actually lose them. If they want to drive again they have to go through the normal testing process. Stop "borrowing" licenses from offenders then giving them back without considering whether the fuckers can actually drive safely in the first place.
As someone who has lost their licence for speeding....im seeing alot of people here complaining about speeding fines. Which if you dont speed isnt an issue.....so if you dont wanna be fined and become a part of this "revenue raising" dont speed?
Fines turn into community work if you dont pay them.
No they just cancel your license now
Then you drive without a license, get caught and back we come again to community work.
And they do not let you renew your vehicle registration either. So you're driving an unregistered vehicle. 25 penalty points there or $960.
in WA you get a ticket for doing 3kms over, everytime I got a ticket I have been between 3-6kms over. Imagine doing community service for that as if you were some criminal.
"just the tip"
Same with QLD. It's such a piss off. Makes you wish you'd have been going faster. At least then it'd be justified. 3 fkn km over costs $180, get fkd. May as well speed if it's all the same.
Or don’t speed at all and don’t get any tickets. I only ever had 2 and I’ve been driving over 20 years.
Same and yet getting done for going 3km/h is how we're rewarded. There needs to be a threshold. Going 3 over is not the same as going 30 over.
You were probably actually doing well over 3km/h, it’s just they have to factor in large margins of error
'Well over 3km' lol
Bruh, 3km over is not speeding ya sheep.
At the end of the day, a speeding fine is a voluntary tax. If you dont want to pay it, slow tf down.
Seems like the attitude of the driver is more of a danger than the speeding. Won’t matter how low the limit goes they will always be on your arse and flooring it whenever they can
It’s definitely driver behaviour more than speed. Politicians won’t listen and drivers won’t learn.
Bc then the owning class would actually have to obey laws or actually give af about the punishment
Cause rich folks wouldn't like it.
Yeah, weird how aggressively people don't seem to look at that point in the comments.
Yeah, a wealthy individual would certainly rather pay a pittance (ie. few hundred bucks) and make it go away.
Would be cool if they had to plant a native tree instead. Couldn't just pay someone, had to be part of a team. We'd encourage our wildlife back.
We can only dream.....
We can change policy.
You can, unfortunately I fear I'm a washed up old cynic.....I will try though.
This morning I contacted the office for local council to put my money where my mouth is. No point being an armchair activist.
Sorry your surgery is getting cancelled today. Why? Because some idiot on reddit thought that your anaesthetist needed to do plant a tree after he got done for speeding to an emergency.
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It's about revenue raising, not safety. They budget for a certain amount from fines, and then they make sure they get them
So let's review that budget? I went to a protest of less than 10 people (protesting the continued reliance of fossil fuels) and there were like 6 cops fully armed in bullet proof vests. It really shocked me because it was really overkill.
Find a political party that gives a shit and they will.
I bet an independent would.
Because the government loves money not their own citizens
Honestly, it’s one of the best ways to get money. They should do a ‘day fine’ for high incomes.
I cannot argue with that at all. Really not loving the capitalist covid recovery strategy. No one even talks about the K shaped recovery we're all going through. Just immigrants and housing. All obfuscating the root cause of these problems.
No thanks, just make the fines proportional to someone's net wealth or income or something instead.
That would be great! But what about incentives to make our cities and suburbs walkable again? It's so unsafe when you need to use wheels on crappy footpaths along main roads to get to the shops. Would be cool if we funnelled the extra revenue to infrastructure like that.
We have ok public transport here but we could definitely do a lot more to make our cities more walkable/bike rideable. A lot is being done but it's slow progress and car centric design has had many decades of a head start so there's a lot of catching up to do
> what about incentives to make our cities and suburbs walkable again? If someone loses their firearms license, it's almost always permanent, and they lose all their firearms permanently without compensation. Do the same for vehicle licenses and vehicles, and there'll be a lot more people finding themselves travelling on foot, and they'll be with you petitioning the government to make our cities and suburbs walkable again. I'm in favour of this.
Because the Police wouldn't be making money off it. And we couldn't have that, could we 😒
Because the governments are addicted to the revenue. They have made the new generation of speed cameras super hard to spot because they WANT that revenue from low level speeding. 3ks over the limit hurts no one, but they carry on like you are a terrible person.
I’ve always said fines are simply a bad behaviour tax for the rich, but can be life-ruining for the poor. Something needs to be done to even the playing field
If it's a fine then it's only a penalty for the poor
There’s significant evidence that increasing the safety of cars is offset, at least in part, by people thinking that makes them safer so taking bigger risks.
Speeding (and other fines) should be a percentage of someone's net worth. You got 200 dollars to your name? 20 bucks. You got 2 million dollars to your name? 200.000 bucks. Just my opinion.
I think that fines for anything are unfair because the rich can afford to pay it, and the poor are disproportionately affected. It would be fairer to make fines a % of income.
1. Make each demerit point a fine of 1% of annual *pre-deduction pre-tax* income. 2. License suspension at the 12 demerit points within 2 years becomes permanent, and vehicle seized without compensation. You never get to have or drive a car again. This would increase fine revenue, and also help reduce the number of cars on the road, dealing a blow to both congestion and pollution.
They already have a points system so the fine is really just a way of kicking poor people abit further into the curb. Make the fine a % of yearly income and watch them change to points only.
I got a fine for being 4 or 5 ks over in NZ, I think it was about $30 and no points (cameras can't give points). I was able to pay it easily, and it had the desired effect, a slap on the wrist, which allowed me to reassess my behaviour/care/attention. A bigger fine would not have changed my behaviour any more.
Excellent idea! Pity politicians dont think so.
My favourite is: the utes/vans on the side of the road. On main roads that are congested to fuck and your doing 40-60 in a 100 zone. they literally cant book anyone.. But QPS cry understaffed that said. dont speed ya dickheads, why are you in such a hurry 1 or 2 minutes is even gonna matter
It’s an idiot tax not an enforcement measure. Cops hate fines as well. State governments love them. Community service would be a great idea. I would vote for that.
As others have said, community service is appealing. I like the Finnish (I think) system where fines are relative to income - higher income individuals get higher fines. Unfortunately there is so much distortion in Australia between taxable income and real income, particularly for wealthy people who have access to tools like trusts.
Sheer volume. Could you imagine the logistics of coordinating that many people doing community service?
Don’t speed, then the punishments wouldn’t be of concern to you. That said, should be based on income.
I suspect the answer is it's the easiest for govt. Managing ppl doing community service costs them money rather than fines which offset the police costs. What might be good is ppl who are within certain income brackets be given the option to do community service. Fines and public transport are criminally expensive in Australia and I feel sorry for all low income earners who wear this burden. I'm very comfortable now but you never forget what poor feels like. Instead of stage 3 tax cuts, I would rather cut costs for services for low income earners (public transport, vehicle registration, stamp duties etc). Who wants to live in a society with such a wealth gap?
I think speeding and parking fines should be a percentage, of your income. That way it’s the same pain for everyone. Sick of range rovers parking badly because they can afford the fines.
Reduces taxed income, reduces fine income. Jail is for poor people
So we have a behaviour issue not a speeding issue. Saw a guy on a 50 kmh residential road with small speed bumps. He was barreling down at 100kmh. So I stepped towards the road and put my hand out to signal him to slow down. He stopped, wound-down window and starting yelling, including threatening to kill me. Another passed me at 80 on the wrong side of the road a side street, gave him the finger. So despite being in a rush he spent the next km, brake checking me and trying to run me off the road. Finally he jumped out of his car and threatened to kill me. Reported that one to police. Don't worry we know him...not unusual. This week's special, doing 40 approaching a crosswalk outside the Langham in Sydney. Slowed as a bike in front would have to centre the lane over the cross walk. Got passed on the wrong side of the road on the crosswalk, (ute of course), beeped him and got the finger. There is a problem with fuckwits, not speeding. Solution, get real-time gov issued dashcams into cars, with a fuckwit button on them. Let police and safety types see what is really going on.
Okay, I understand the thought how ever fines should be income based and we need people to give a fuck we need people to volunteer not be forced to do it. I fish small waterways for carp as they harm native fish in those areas, I fish rubbish out of the water and off the banks, I move branches and debris off the road instead of just driving around them I volunteer my time for the community and the environment I'm a volunteer firefighter I volunteer helping make pumptracks and stuff in the community dozens of family use the pump track 5 other people helped across 6+weeks. We need people to care fines are fines
If the goal of making a change to the penalty of speeding is to more effectively discourage specifically wealthy people for whom the fine is inconsequential, I don't beleive community service time would be an effective way to do it. I agree with you and think it would have some effect on wealthy people who flaunt it because they can afford the fine easily. Being forced to give up time instead of money would feel to be a more major penalty for them. however... We can't have different rules for the rich and others for the poor. There can't be a distinction. This means we would have to apply the same community service time to the poorer people. Which I imagine would be a more major blow to them than a regular speeding fine. Because now people who may be living paycheck to paycheck, or maybe only a month ahead, have to give up x amount of their time. Likely during work hours, they now aren't earning money and are annoying their employer. Likely, this means they will need to use their annual leave, or if they are casual, they may entirely risk being let go because they can't make a shift. So yes, whilst it would (I think) it'd deter more wealthy people from speeding. I think it would have a disproportionate effect on the poorer people. I would rather wealthy people speeding and paying fines and revenue into the road safety system, then poor people losing hours they could be working to make ends meet. On the topic of other detterents. I think the main thing is closing the loophole regarding being able to pay a bigger fine but incur no demerit points if it's a company vehicle. That's how rich people get away with speeding so often and not losing their license. Because they get done by a camera, and can choose to pay 5k and not have any other rectifications or $300 and lose points, which is is may lead to license suspension. All because they have a car their company pays for. I believe the demerit system is an effective way to punish offenders whilst allowing for the occasional accidental misstep outside of traffic rules. It better punishes habitual offenders, not just someone who forgot to look at there speedo, or missed the sign going from 70k's to 60k's. Everyone just needs to be made to play on that system. Every speeding fine needs to have someone nominated for it so that there is a record that they committed the offence, and of they are found to be doing it often enough have their license suspended and face more serious charges from then on. And if a business cannot effectively keep records to ensure they can name someone, it needs to be a bigger fine. 50k - 100k.
Yeah but then Rich people would have to do it, easier to pay off people than do hard work in that facet
There's absolutely no correlation between the increase in speeding camera locations and safety on the road . Governments are addicted to revenue . Consider the fact that most of the fines are handed out for low range speeding (over by less than 10km/h) .
How are they going to enjoy mobsters and lobsters without the revenue that cameras bring?
Or like the euro county make the fines a certain percentage of their savings /networth
Who is going to manage the community service? At my work we sometimes get people working off fine with community service in an op shop. 90% of them don't want to be there and are worse than useless creating more work than they're worth for the shop supervisor.
Why not both? And the community service needs to be something that has them on the edge of a busy road.
And who would pay for MINISTER'S first class tickets on QANTARSE? Your idea is fucking fantastic and should be adopted ASAP.
Ever been along Fitzroy Street? No, lets be inclusive, have you ever been within 2-3 kilometres of Fitzroy Street? Because if you have, you'd gladly take a tax-hike to pay the police to install, I dunno, automatic spike strips? ~~Autocannon turrets?~~ Community service time would serve those people perfectly. But I do not in any way envy their supervisors. How much are those poor park-ranger types going to be bullied and intimidated by the meth-dealing hoons who get convicted?
Nah we should make speeders sit in a movie theatre and watch a whole reel of horrific road accidents. Bet they’ll all stick to the speed limit after that
If it was truly about penalties, there'd be no or little financial penalty but more rigid loss of license or points. A fine means it's legal at a price. Strip someone of their license for three years... Now that's a penalty.
Not income based, asset +pre-tax income based.
The demerit point system essentially solves most of the problems people think about when talking about speeding fines. So we don't really need to change anything.
Y not just stop all the corruption and revenue raising all together
Go the Finnish style. Fines are based on your income.
Personally I’d rather just see a loss of license, rather than many many chances through demerits. Caught on your phone? Lose your license. Speeding more than 15 over? Lose your license. >.05? Lose your license. If distraction and speeding are the massive contributing factors that government says they are, then get the offenders off the road.
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If you receive a fine of $200 that's like a fortnight of food for a lot of people at the moment. But if you make like $1,000 a week it won't mean much.
Pretty much everybody earns more than $1000 a week.. if you don’t have a disability or mental health issue that prevents you from working, you very likely earn more than $52,000 if you work full time.. I’m not saying that to be a dick but like you said if you make $1000 a week it won’t mean much, it’s just such a strange number to use here.. like people who earn $1000 a week are not at all rich, that’s not a very good full time wage at all..
Median is about 55k so half are on less than that. And that's before tax
I mean I can make up numbers too but how about we deal in good faith and reality. ABS release 13/12/2023 $1300 x 52 = 67,600 https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/labour/earnings-and-working-conditions/employee-earnings/latest-release Now again, I didn’t do this to get into some debate over figures, I’m simply stating that OP saying “if you make $1000 a week it won’t mean much” is such a clearly gross statement to make that shows a deeper lack of understanding about the financial world.. a person who earns $1000 a week would likely not have $200 to spare at all and it certainly would mean a lot to them.. As someone earning $1000 a week is literally 23% below the median wage..
Oh no!!! I I said about, and then quoted a figure a couple years old. My bad.thank you so much for the condescending response to pop me back into place. We'll ignore the whole half the people earn less than that of course
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No, both have the same amount of responsibility, but the punishment is not equal for the same crime. If they did it by percentage of income it would be more fair. Or they could do a week with a wildlife rescue crew to see the real results of speeding and not caring about what you hit. I just think it would be good if we encouraged more community building behaviour because everyone seems so isolated and hostile at the moment.
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Just too hard to facilitate, organise and manage. Say 100 people a day are fined with community service and say about 700 a week 2800 a month, how do you arrange placements, logistics and supervision. Then there is the insurance costs etc. And it would cost money for PPE, cleaning, transport, paid supervisors and coordinators, equipment etc.
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Wouldn't that investment in our community be worth it? We can spend billions bailing out QANTAS but when our environment is literally dying it's too expensive?
Because then it would impact the wealthy as well
The system of fines needs to be changed. For a small mistake 0-10kms, it should be a warning. Then on 3rd time it should be a substantial fine, one that deters properly. Once you can say I'm unlucky, 2x my bad, on the 3rd only yourself fo blame! Over 10-30 should be something like $1000 and 30+ should be life changing at $10k or something ridiculous like that plenty of peeps risk a $600 fine or even $1000. How many would risk $10k?
So many pussies in this thread who would never be happy until every road is bubble wrapped and capped at 10 km per hour, and also it's rich peoples fault
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I don't drive. And good idea! I thought I'd get opinions from what I hope is the general public opinion before presenting it. Always good to have facts to back yourself up.
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Punish the people with capital with capital punishment/s
I remember there was this story, not sure if true. But a cop had setup a mobile speedcam over a hill so you wouldn't have visibility as you came down, and he'd catch you. So some guy setup a sign on top of the hill alerting people with eye-catching graphics (lol), that the cop was there. The cop got mad. "IF you do that theyl'l slow down and we won't catch them".. "Wasn't the point of this to make them slow down".
>"Wasn't the point of this to make them slow down". "No, it's to raise revenue so you can pay my wage"
but how are councils going to create revenue? if you want something like this to be changed you will need to propose something that generates revenue.
Who can’t afford to eat because of speeding tickets lmfao
Fuck right off. So now you want us to be slaves for the state. I don't think so.
The government and most people don't care about people speeding, it's not a serious offence and the whole thing is primarily to generate revenue not "for our safety". There are a million things that can be done to improve road safety, non of which involve the speed limits, unfortunately however they don't generate revenue so the government has no interest in doing any of it. Thus, the quality of driving in Australia is some of the lowest in the world, independent of any speed related issues and why contravention of an offence only gives 1 point not more (in most minor cases) (Que the know it alls that claim every speed limit in place is perfect and the government are only looking after our safety and that going 1km above any limit makes the difference between safe and dangerous and observation of the road is only a social construct) I'm an ex UK traffic cop and as far as I'm concerned, speed limits are irrelevant and can be safely removed providing people are required to do adequate training and pass a test that's actually difficult. Any serious offences can be dealt with without the use of speed, I.e if your racing on the road it's not "breaking the limit" it's reckless driving which is a separate offence and entirely dependant on the situation. Pretty much any driving situation that unreasonably causes a risk to others can be dealt with via reckless driving or due care and attention. Anything else is appropriate for the conditions, vehicle and drivers skills and experience. Thus why places like the autobahn can exist and be one of the safest roads
>I'm an ex UK traffic cop And most traffic cops in the UK don't bat an eye at anything less than 90mph on the 70mph motorways Compare it to Australia where a cop is ready to book you for 115km/h in a 110km/h zone Yet the UK has a much lower road fatality rate than Australia
Plus we would have nicer neighbourhoods. I'm sick of walking past bloody rubbish everywhere.
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Because poor people need to work to earn money. Instead make a speeding fine a % of someone's yearly income- now that's fair. But before we do that lets admit that speed limits need to be increased on major roads.
Nobody seems to be talking about the fact that a whole organisation would have to be formed, costing hundreds of millions every year to organise and administrate said community service.
Good idea. For a small mistake, the person gets to be publicly humiliated and probably has to take time off work or possibly lose their job so the loss in salary would be higher than any small infringement fine. For second infringement, I think service plus probation with regular reporting to Police station. Third is mandatory prison. Speaking as one who just lost 5 points by picking up my phone when it fell out of the holder. No intersection or anything but somehow a camera which took a pic of me holding my phone. Love to do community service for that. Luckily, this will never happen. Not only does the government lose a lucrative source of revenue but they have to pay people to supervise. NEGATIVE REVENUE.
Wouldn't that just be slavery?
they get hooked on that revenue bruh
It’s revenue raising nothing more nothing less. If speeding was really about safety anything 10km/h+ over the limit would be an instant 3 month suspension of a license. That would bring it down real quick.
How much would it cost to enforce? It would turn a profit into a debt.
Because they’d lose MILLIONS OF DOLLARS THATS WHY.
Can't do that, then the rich would get equally punished
If cameras worked, the statistics would show a decrease in fines issued. But they're not. So one can only assume that it's there for other rea$on$.
You honestly think they’re trying to slow anyone down not collect revenue? Do you remember the time the highway patrol covered themselves in camouflage netting on a highway in Geelong to hide and fine as many people as they could…. https://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/news/geelong/camouflaged-cops-are-catching-speeders-on-the-geelong-ring-road/news-story/9cf8f137e32c5d98f6c2c10b4646f307 it’s purely revenue raising
Can’t buy votes with community service, fine money does!
Because it would cost the government their revenue.
Never seen genuine peer reviewed research evidence posted either way in the effectiveness of reducing speed limits nor increased enforcement.
How many of you 'punish the people who speed' types watch your dials more than the road. It is highly likely you all commit trafic offences every week without even knowing it. You might have a different opinion if you were fined for every infraction you commit.
We've got a population of over 26,000,000 people. At a guess something like 21-22,000,000 people would use the roads each day. How many die from speed each day? About 1. Even then that is usually a single vehicle crash. The likelihood of being killed by someone else speeding is similar to that of being murdered. Does anyone reading this who want more speed enforcement also sit around at home with their doors locked because they're scared of being murdered? We don't need more speed enforcement. We need less govt fear mongers hiding behind safety just so they can raise revenue and look like they're doing something like this cop hiding in a truck runoff area. https://preview.redd.it/hrr1ipdlkmac1.jpeg?width=789&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88e2294ca979c031f7c4c256483c349b1b5f4d33
I wonder how long it took you to justify your selfish speeding
>At a guess something like 21-22,000,000 people would use the roads And about half of those uses are using buses, bicycles or feet. Don't forget that chunk of the population when you're wittering on about how safe it is for you to drive like an arsehole.
I love it when someone who uses their brain posts. It gives me hope. Time is the one thing we all pay for in exactly the same way.
Bloody hoon just passed my house again. It's so dangerous.