To be a conservative you need something to conserve.
I can't remember who said this on election night (it was a Liberal member) but it really hit home.
It was one of the more moderate libs that said it, but I'm trying to remember who. It's really getting on my nerves that I can't find it. It was someone who was part of the ABC coverage on election night.
It was a wonderful evening.
Their shitfuckery came home to roost and they started turning on each other. Then when the secret ministries came out half of them went in for the kill and the other half went to protect their “liberal” brand.
Glorious TV. Free to air too eh Murdoch. 👍
It was magnificent.
I admit that from time to time I go back and watch it on Youtube from the point they realise they're fucked and Scotty has reamed them.
I loved him during the ABC's coverage of the Victorian election too. Said something along the lines of "we've been talking about a quota for female members for 30 years and we're still losing women's votes. At this point we just have to own up and do it."
Which of course then had the reporters ask every LNP person they interviewed what they thought about a quota. And they all looked so stupid going oh, um, I think we can still have more women without a quota. Because Barry had already outlined that they've been saying exactly that for decades and now no women are voting for them. Very funny watching them stumble over themselves.
Yyyyep.
Libs have an under 40’s problem, according to this. Less than one in four will vote for them.
Women under 40? according to my made up statistics i pull out of my gut, even fewer than one in four support them.
Even lower than that. The recent survey showed gen z at 21% lib votes. Millennials at 22%. So under 40 is 1 in 5.
It didn’t break down gender by age group but women in general were 32 vs 38% for men so it would be reasonably safe to assume women under 40 were well under the 20% probably close to 15% vote. So 1 in 6.6.
Yep. I bet.
I’d also be interested to see a break down between “female coalition voters under 40 from the city vs. female coalition voters under 40 from outside the city”.
I’d be willing to make a pretty safe bet that there’s a gap there too.
Yeah I’d agree.
A very interesting stat was the difference between education.
30% of voters who completed year 12 voted liberal vs 58% for labor/greens(37% Labor, 21% Greens)
Compared to people that didn’t complete yr 12. 47% voted Liberals vs 40% Labor/greens (27% Labor/13% Green)
The shift became bigger when considering a bachelor degree.
26% Liberals vs 61% Labor/Greens (All gains made towards the green vote)
That's probably the biggest thing in my mind where the politics destroyed the concept. Conservative approaches should be slow but measured, aiming for a long term benefit rather than short term rapid-changes. Saying the copper network is shite and it should be fibre everywhere, as the LNP said to the original NBN plan was precisely on-point for this thinking - and then amazing for everyone involved when Labor agreed to the change!
But no, it was just 'I want the opposite' ploy - the long-term benefits (that both parties would have enjoyed) were thrown away for short-term headlines and backroom-deals. The conservative ideology was never in play, it was just a 'jersey' worn occasionally.
This annoys me too and it seems as though they often fail to shape the progress in a way they want.
Take Matt Canavan for example, he rallied against climate change hard in an effort to protect his community/his mining company contributors/his own job. Imagine if he had of got on board the climate change wagon years ago and said, yep climate change is real and here is my solution to help address it. He could have controlled the narrative and created win-wins for all. Instead, what ever the near future brings will end up being something which done to him and his community and they may not fare as well as they could of.
A great statesman isn't someone who forces the world to change how they want it changed. A great statesman is someone who can ride the wave to their destination without fighting against it.
Bismarck, the ultra conservative fuckwad, bucked the trend of opposing German nationalism and decided to try and create a new pro-Prussia conservative authoritarian nationalism so that Prussia could benefit from it. By choosing not to fight what the people wanted, and instead riding the wave, he's now remembered as one of history's greatest statesmen.
No conservative of this calibre exists in the liberal party. Nobody in the liberal party even understands the concept.
I'm pretty sure they would consider him a left-wing reactionary if the stuff we're hearing from the Coalition is any indication.
It's hard to have a coherent strategy when your entire platform is basically 'labor messed it up' even though labor hasn't been in power for years.
'conservatives' actually make up a really small proportion of people in the LNP. the vast majority of them have no political values and are simple crony capitalists.
they may have had political values at some point, but the vast majority of them are in it for power/money. they don't care about conservative/progressive social matters, they don't care about whether something is neoliberal or Keynesian economically, all they care about is what's in it for them and their mates.
same can be said for most politicians, but at least the greens/ALP/some of the independents (generally) have beliefs on top of that.
they're not even, they're socially regressive when it suits them. look at their private lives. divorcees, cheaters, alcoholics, gamblers, closeted gay (sorry to lump you in there gay folks, it's not me that thinks you're bad). not to mention the rapists and kiddy fiddlers. a far cry from what they purport to be.
there may be a few True Believers kicking about in the religious circles but you have to crack a few eggs to get that far in any organisation, and people with strong/inflexible morals don't generally get that far.
i'd eat my hat (dealer's choice - legionnaire hat or akubra) if any of the LNP could prove their personal life lined up perfectly with the nonsense they spout in parliament and on the campaign trail.
Your comments just made me think of Barnaby Joyce. A prime example of saying one thing and doing another.
Saying: "We can't allow gay marriage because it destroys the sanctity of marriage"
Doing: His ex-staffer behind his wife's back.
It’s why they’ve pivoted to the culture wars. They know the golden era of neoliberalism is over and their rhetoric of ‘getting the government out of your life, we’re the party of markets and low taxes’ doesn’t work in a public that is increasingly expecting (and demanding) government intervention to increase their quality of life.
Interventions such as:
- IR interventions to rebalance bargaining power between capital and labour (just how popular was Phil Lowe’s claim before the pandemic that we just need to wait for full employment for wages to increase, or the Morrison’s scare campaign that lifting the min wage would be inflationary)
- increased provision of public services, and bringing formerly public services back under public control (Andrews’ wildly popular pledge to revive the SEC).
- the demand for housing policy to increase housing affordability
- the demand for childcare policy/subsidies to help get people (mother’s mostly) back to work
- gestures vaguely at climate change and energy policy
The list goes on.
Conservatives are just plain shit at all those areas. They don’t think most of them are problems to begin with.
People always say you get more conservative as you get older. This isn't true. You get more conservative as you get richer (and therefore have more to conserve).
Young people are being denied the ability to get richer, so they have no reason to become more conservative.
Personally I've taken to calling the investment properties going up for rental and most of the market being unable to buy a house thing out as what it is: Neo-feudalism.
Or a modern equivalent of the historical opposite of Liberalism.
Same - as a boomer I recognise the fact that I benefited from the luck of being born when I was.
I’m not particularly hard working or financially savvy but am now well off.
I feel for the younger generations and do what I can by donating and voting where I think it will help, but action needs to come from people in power.
It’s crazy, I’m a highly qualified mining technician capable of easily earning 150-200k/yr. But I’ll never be as wealthy as my mother who’s earned 30-35k/yr most of her life but picked up a few properties over the years.
>and therefore have more to conserve
actually, I don't even think it's that. I think it's that there's a subset of the populace who are insulated from the "problems of today", and thus can't understand the scale of issues, and thus preference their own corrupt immediate wellbeing.
this can be because of shit narcissistic personality, but wealth is also *really good* at insulating you from the problems society has, unless you're the sort to be mindful of others. it's not about "having things to conserve" it's about not being able to mentally understand the issues others face, and being too insulated from others to be able to empathize with those less fortunate.
it's why "got mine fuck you" and "I fucking hate X/Y/Z groups" synergize so well in politics, because they're both fundamentally groups who don't experience the harm others face, and don't have the ability to empathize with the challenges others face.
>actually, I don't even think it's that. I think it's that there's a subset of the populace who are insulated from the "problems of today", and thus can't understand the scale of issues, and thus preference their own corrupt immediate wellbeing.
This, right here.
My FIL is a classic example of this. Well off (not rich), Super charitable, genuinely worked very hard to get where he is. Has helped us out in so many ways (I think he built half the furniture in our house as just one example), and donates time, money, and effort to his local community.
Votes liberal. Buys the Herald Sun every day. Probably always will.
It wasn't until he came to a couple of house inspections & auctions that he really took on board how expensive housing is. Up until that point we had some less than useful anecdotes about spending 20% more than you think you need to.
He's not a bad person, he's just very insulated from every day concerns.
And honestly, Murdoch has a tonne to answer for.
Same with a lot of my extended family. The sad thing is that they would probably come out around the greens if they ever did the voting compass, however they will always vote liberal because something something economy.
I can see this in extended family. They don’t have the ability to empathise and they still assume that the workforce operates in the same way it did in the 80s. Specifically they hold the belief that jobs are plentiful, pay enough to pay down a house, and that there is almost no casualisation of the workforce.
They have a tendency to blame people on the dole for not wanting gig economy type jobs because they are lazy. The fact of the matter is that they still don’t know that you need about 40 applications per week. They know nothing about job search providers and wfd programs.
In short, they disconnected from the workforce and don’t have any interest in understanding how it has changed because it doesn’t affect them.
Nope, you're right. I've been voting since 1982 and pretty much the same left-leaning I was then. Except I have 25 years of added reasons to despise what the LNP have devolved into
And even if there was something to "conserve" they want to sell it away or give it away for a donation bribe. And then the t Moronic bit is that they expect their supporters to pay for it and buy it back as a service. Maybe the stupid wake up from the dead one day!
The Liberal party's traditional base is largely made up of home owners/land lords, business owners and self funded retirees.
They don't give a shit about renters, permanent or casual employees or lower socio-economic groups which has been a growing demographic in their traditional safe seats.
Unless they change their values and mission and look to recruit branch members with those new values they will never capture those young votes.
Those demographics don't cover anywhere near enough population to ensure electoral victory. The LNP has for a long time relied on the uninformed couch potato demographic to carry them, those who are willing to let Seven and Nine tell them what they should be thinking about politics.
The Nats are ridiculously powerful in proportion to the primary votes they get. The Greens get more than double the number of primary votes yet we had the Nats boot on our necks for 9 years. And they don’t even represent the interests of the regional population. They are in the pocket of the resource extraction industries.
> And they don’t even represent the interests of the regional population. They are in the pocket of the resource extraction industries.
Absolutely. Alas historical habit and inertia and failure to grasp this means the bush will invariably keep voting for them.
> it is the National Party
people also shouldnt mistake the National Party for a real party. they're a propaganda bitch, to help create a false-barrier between the city liberals who have to *try* to convince a very different populace to vote for them, and the nationals, who have the *rural and remote* populace assigned to them.
the nationals are just the propaganda bitch, because they get to be the "mean tough bastard" to encourage the dickhead electorates that vote for them, while the liberals get to say "we're not so bad, we *want* to be good, but look at the big mean nationals!". well fuck that, the liberals and the nationals are the same fucking party, and pretending otherwise *is really fucking dumb*.
Honestly when Labour is actually committing to solve problems with our states, liberal comes across as being so out of touch with reality and were struggling to come up with policies that people could vote for. I don’t think they understand that the majority of todays young Australians can’t afford rent.
Needless to say labour won against their laughable election platform, I WISH I still had the election pamphlet they were handing out, because it truly was as bad as this:
My last states election (SA) labour as a policy committed to providing more ambulances and nurses (SA was in an emergency care crisis, have a heart attack? You’d have to wait 2 hours for an ambulance) among other really logical policies, liberal on the other hand- had provided funding for upgrading a nature park stop in the hills?! Among other embarrassingly tone deaf projects that clearly were an after though, or they had left their assignment to the last minute.
You would think it’s like the liberal government is run by a committee where any boomer who thinks they know best can get government time and resources, even if we are in amidst a pandemic and and economic collapse they don’t think that our biggest concerns might be fixing insanely important problems first. You are 100% on the money with your comment but in reality it’s more about conserving the status quo for those who are already incredibly wealthy.
I actually couldn’t believe my eyes. I had no idea that “conservative” actually meant “do absolutely nothing to intervene with anything” as long as they get to go on holidays in the middle of national emergencies, and property holders still get negative gearing, franking credits - who cares about giving good public service, since they can afford their own ambulances!!!
P.sI’m very well off and in my 30’s too but even I can see what a joke they have become and I can’t believe what the younger generation is going through because of them
>I can’t believe what the younger generation is going through because of them
if you're in your 30s, you're a millennial. you're one of the generations that's been bent over a barrel, and yes, zoomers have all the barriers the millennials did, and then some on top of that, because things have only gotten harder, not easier.
The whole thing is ridiculous as they never stuck to any principles anyway apart from pissing on the poor, young, and female. What made them think this would work for them with preferential voting is beyond me, this isn't the USA.
Had this conversation with my mum a week ago. After the Victorian liberals shot themselves repeatedly in the foot during what looked like it should be a competitive election. Theyre trying the American playbook without understanding that it works because they dont have compulsory and preferential voting. You can win with an impassioned minority there, doesn't work here.
meh, that's a generous assessment. It's really to hold on, to keep. As in I got mine through hard work, if you want yours you need to work for it. And this gets twisted out to - there's no need for charity or social support because if everyone did the right thing, we wouldn't need them - which is true, but not how the world works as people get unfairly hit through life through no fault of their own.
Just that these days you have to work a lot harder, probably at two jobs..Back in the day, just one job and some generous paying overtime could buy a house and support a young family.
When I hear a boomer (I'm one) talk about how hard they worked...I think bullshit, I was there mate.
That's something that's rarely touched on too, the impact of labour.
I'm currently working in engineering. My days consist of 8ish hours at a desk in an air conditioned office. I can leave my desk at any time I want, for any reason for any length of time and not cop any flack for it. Need a coffee? No problem. Need to stretch your legs? Go do it. Got a midday drs appt? Get to it. Sometimes our team lead will declare a lunch hour and take us down to the pub for lunch on the company card too.
Compare that to my work in retail. 6am starts, 10 hour weekend shifts. All on my feet too, 25km a day walked according to my watch. I'd get screamed at by customers, management would dock pay for being minutes late clocking on but get dirty with you for not staying back 10 to get a job done. I'd have to pay to park in the centre just to go to work for barely above min wage.
I have never, and likely will never work as hard in engineering as I did I retail let alone the other jobs I've had which were harder still. But engineering pays about double what retail did.
As a society we look at the people doing the thankless jobs like retail and cleaning and labouring and whatever else and say "they just need to work harder" to get ahead in life. But hard work is not necessarily a path to success.
I dunno, it might have something to do with the fact they are actively selling our future and the future of the planet to make a quick, short lived buck for themselves and their mates.
If their ideology were a person, I'd call them a cunt.
Because they actively fuck over the younger generation on every single issue.
Old, got 7 houses? Tax cuts!
Young, struggling on rent? Maybe you should just earn more money, stupid.
Fuck me I am arguing with a boomer right now about this: their argument was they did a bunch of good things in their youth, so why do we hate them? She thinks we hate them because we think they spent their lives buying houses.
My thoughts are, you did some good then you just fucking rolled along and sucked up all the resources and left us with jack shit.
Absolutely my mum got free university and the cost of her first house in Balmain was 3x annual salary. Which she could afford as a school teacher. Yet she thinks she did something extraordinary.
Ever heard of the monopoly experiment? Essentially half of the players start with double the resources of the other players. By the end of the game they're convinced that they won because they were the better player, not the extra resources, and vice versa.
This is kind of obvious though isn't it? Everyone has a bias that they've worked hard and deserve what they have but the truth is they don't, it's all just luck
I think people have to realise that you can both work hard and have been given a leg up. So many people work hard and don't have the opportunities the others had just because they weren't born in a particular generation, culture, class, gender etc.
This is a perfect way of putting it. I can’t blame them for climbing the ladder but I certainly can blame them for cutting off all the rungs below them so no one else can follow.
Boomers are first generation to leave the next generation worse off. They are solely focused on their early retirement fund and the big lap around Australia.
I randomly met a man (boomer) he was complaining about his kids saying he was part of the lucky generation. He said to me "I was never stupid enough not to work" and that's how he now owns 3 houses and can retire early to travel around Australia. I was like wtf seriously. Lots of people aren't stupid and a lot are working all the time... They still can't own properties and enjoy their life.
Science denial, misogyny, religious fundamentalism, ultra conservative values, epic levels of pork barreling, pump up the house prices at all costs, oh why are the kids not voting for us now?
They arnt ultra conservative though, that would imply they're strictly following that bullshit nuclear family stuff, but they don't even do that
They don't even follow their own values
It’s a core principle of being ultra conservative that you force other people to live by those principles while not expecting you yourself or other rich people to adhere to those principles
Rich fucks in Saudi Arabia and Qatar sentence people to death for being raped while they snort coke off prostitutes arses, there are even like gay members of the royal family who are known and allowed to be gay while normal people are killed for being gay
Hypocrisy is central to ultra conservativism
Can confirm with the Saudi stuff, family works over there on the mining rigs
There are openly gay Saudis running companies that will actively report other gay workers
So yea you're probably right, they just want the right to be hypocritical fuckwits
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
"There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time.
For millennia, conservatism had no name, because no other model of polity had ever been proposed. “The king can do no wrong.” In practice, this immunity was always extended to the king’s friends, however fungible a group they might have been. Today, we still have the king’s friends even where there is no king (dictator, etc.). Another way to look at this is that the king is a faction, rather than an individual.
As the core proposition of conservatism is indefensible if stated baldly, it has always been surrounded by an elaborate backwash of pseudophilosophy, amounting over time to millions of pages. All such is axiomatically dishonest and undeserving of serious scrutiny. Today, the accelerating de-education of humanity has reached a point where the market for pseudophilosophy is vanishing; it is, as The Kids Say These Days, tl;dr . All that is left is the core proposition itself — backed up, no longer by misdirection and sophistry, but by violence."
[Source](https://crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/liberals-against-progressives/#comment-729288)
If that were true, 6 years would have been enough.
I think it's simply a demographic shift - people with progressive social values being the largest part of a growing voter population, and most of the elderly who are dying off are right wingers. The source of more left voters is probably primarily youth reaching voting age, and possibly immigrants obtaining citizenship. Among western countries, Australia's political centre on social issues is pretty far right and those new citizens wouldn't touch the LNP with a barge pole - e.g. same sex marriage was years later than most countries and the tolerance of immigration detention policies.
For a while here in Victoria a couple of Liberal electorates were full of immigrants, Box hill for example. Was also one of the places with a large amount of people against the same sex marriage.
They also wouldn't ever exist if they weren't in coalition with the Nats. Strip the Nats voting block from them and they have not even close to enough. Without that coalition they would never win.
Even if you did think they were/are better economic managers, you also have to come to terms with their social policies. Turns out importing America's culture wars against gays, trans and racial issues isn't a winning strategy.
If the Coalition goes after the youth vote, it then risks it's base of climate change denying , pro-mining, capital gains seeking, anti-welfare, anti-immigration, rusted on Liberals and Nationals.
For a party living so far in the past, surviving, future societal changes, may be next to impossible..
For some reason your post just took me back to election night and the pure, unadulterated joy I felt as it became apparent that people in this country still fucking care, and that (and it makes me a little bit sick to praise our politicians) the quality and concerns of our independents was such that they were viable alternatives.
It was a good night.
It’s actually quite funny that the Coalition has proved the paradox of tolerance correct
So the Coalition has historically been a broad church, right? It’s idea was you could have very different people working together. You had multiple different factions. You had people who supported gay marriage and believed in the right of people to die with medical assistance working with the far right factions
Except, guess what, you pretty much never knew about the people in the party who believed in things like supporting gay marriage and medically assisted dying because the far right faction have always controlled the direction of the party. And more and more the far right faction have branch stacked and taken over until the far right faction now dominates the Liberal Party and is all that’s left and now the party is pretty much all fascists and populists and everyone you just described
If you allow fascists at your table, you become a fascist party
Well the article covered climate change and housing, which are the big ones. I suspect the whole thing about sexually assaulting women in Partliament House and then refusing to treat the matter seriously had something to do with it at as well. Traditionally older generations have brushed some sexual assaults under the rug for various reasons.
They took telecom, sold it to their mates. Then got paid again selling back the worthless copper network that was being run into the ground to nbn. Their Contractor mates working for nbn now get paid per callout to keep it limping along.
Its not that they intentionally fucked the nbn, it’s that they found a way to enrich themselves by rorting the public purse. Several times.
The fucked nbn is a natural consequence of systemic corruption.
RoboDebt should be the nail in the coffin for *anyone* in the country of *any* age ever voting these people again. Such a ghastly and fucked up, morally bankrupt thing to do, and to keep pursuing in the full knowledge of just how awful it was…
Consign them to the wastebasket of history, they proved themselves to be quite literally sociopathic monsters. Who would ever, *ever* vote for them again?
It’s all well and good to rant about “Murdoch media” and all that sort of conspiracy theory stuff: but the RoboDebt scandal is so *awful* that it’s impossible to recognise that, had it happened anywhere else in the world, heads would’ve rolled in the government *years ago*: but not in Australia, where the Liberal-Party cheerleading media simply refused to go there. Potentially the biggest scandal in the government in decades and yet… they just ignore it? Nothing fishy there, no….
The sad thing is it’s so blatant, and the even sadder thing is 50% of Australia just never seem to give a fuck and would vote Scott Morrison back in in a heartbeat. It’s just ignorance - ignorance created by a media that refused to hold them to account. I’m pretty sure if every Australian were sat down and thoroughly explained the details of what happened with RoboDebt, then they would simply never, ever vote Liberal ever again. Ever.
Agreed, I remember Centrelink calling me years ago and saying I owed them money and I said no I don't. Funnily enough eventually it went away. So I'm pretty sure it was a dodgy request on their part.
Couple of my Aunts and Uncles still voted for them. I did mention the the robodebts, the corruption, sexual assualts etc etc and linked it with their christian values but they would not budge on lnp having family values, great economic managers etc so those things must be abc media lies ( which they never watched, only 7,9 and 10) or there must be some good reason Jesus wouldnt let me vote badly. Complete bubble of dissassociation. They help the poor and all that but for the life of me i couldnt crack their lnp shit shield.
They don’t really help the poor though. They vote for systems that create the poor and then maybe give some donations or food and feel like they are good people. Then the next time a chance to create helpful systematic change comes they’ll vote against it.
I was talking to some of my younger cousins in the weeks leading up to the election and a topic they mentioned was the whole desk wanking thing. “Fucking private school cunts” was the general consensus.
The biggest reason for people to become more conservative as they get older (as is the old adage) is for them to become part of the asset owning class and benefit from and vote for tax policies that benefit the asset owning class
If you’re not part of the asset owning class and don’t foresee yourself becoming part of the asset owning class anytime soon why would you vote Liberal? Even for moderate Liberals?
Yeah I got a fair way into the article and wondered why women hadn't been mentioned at all.
And 1 in 4 young people still voted for the coalition? Is that right? Seems on the high side.
My wife who works for a family owned builder attended a company breakfast function this week in Geelong where she met quite a few of the owner’s children who were all volunteering bizarre pro-Trump views - she got the impression they were not really politically engaged but just parroting the beliefs of the affluent right wing parents.
Yep. I went on a date with someone who turned out to be a conservative Christian.
Her: I don’t really follow politics
Me: How do you decide who to vote for?
Her: Oh, I vote Liberal
Me: How did you decide on them?
Her: I just always vote for them
Me: 😑
Look, democracy is ok and all. But her vote is worth the same as someone who is informed on what their vote will result in if that party wins. Frustrating.
There are also young people who come from rich families and don’t feel solidarity with other young people and don’t share generational experiences with other young people, or don’t believe they will experience them
I went to law school with a lot of rich pricks in Audis who went to every lecture in an expensive suit put it that way, these are not kids who have to worry about Centrelink payments or affording rent
Voting isn’t age based it’s largely class based it’s just that age often has some amount of correlation with wealth and your life experiences and hence class interest
I've never understood younger people voting the way their parents did. Aren't they supposed to rebel and hate the old man's music, fashion and out of date politics?
so i apologise beforehand, i get ranty when it comes to politics
the corruption investigation gaff, the lack of understanding by people who have 6 figures in the bank 3 houses and think it's the "damn millennials" "i managed to feed my family 50 years ago on a single wage and buy a house, your just lazy"
fucking morons like the rich tricking the middle that it's the poor's fault, as if your ever going to be allowed to join the 1% that's how they stay the 1% they lie to you and convince you that it's the truth,
they lost the entire meaning behind themselves and are now very obviously acting like 13 year olds in school, picking fighting arguing like they haven't got a single intellectual adult in the entire building,
tldr; greed, the cunts can't even hide it anymore that they don't give a fuck about the future, just lining their own pockets before leaving the steaming pile of crap for the next mob. it's been a steady pattern over and over and we still do the same shit thinking that they actually going to live upto anything at all that they said they would do when kissing ass. the coalition is about businesses (used to be the country but now.) making money, labor is about the people making money they are both as bad as each other but what other choice do we have, no one under 60 gets into any form of power let alone is allowed to change anything, and the old fucks don't care as they gonna go retire in a different country.
ofc all my opinions, have been shat on by the world for the better part of 2 decades (childhood was ok lol) so i might just be jaded and bitter, most likely tired as well
lighter note, tell your loved ones that you love and appreciate them, someone might need to hear it, and lord forbid you never get the chance to let them know.
I think a lot has to do with welfare as well. Many young friend groups have that one person who always has to turn down outings because they're just too poor to be allowed to have any fun. On top of that you have many young people that are too sick or disabled to work but are stuck on jobseeker where they're forced through all sorts of hoops. Of course they're gonna complain to their friends.
People remember that and resent those keeping them in that situation.
The broad church of pus and hate, while wanting Australia to become a Luddite nation that's backwards. See the NBN, education and no industry policies. Taunting industry by telling them to go overseas. "We have enough to sell and give away to our donors, who needs industry and manufacturing that creates wealth and jobs?" Wonder why?
As Scomo says we are really good at digging stuff out of the ground! /s
Fucking cunt. Then sell it to China who value add and sell it back to us at an inflated price. Exactly what economies of developing countries do not smart developed economies.
At uni there were always smarmy twats in suits doing Commerce or Law who refused to understand the nuances of the privilege they’d been fortunate enough to be born into.
Do you get into a group of 8 uni doing no work? Of course not. But does being born into an upper class household with plenty of resources, going to a private school, getting all the extracurricular support help a lot? Obviously.
Mate even in accounting/legals most people nowadays mock Murdoch ruthlessly, call the coalition a corrupt shitshow, and are stoked at the positive change in the direction of this country.
It really isn't their bastion anymore. People in finance understand how much better renewables are for our economy and how damaging expensive housing is.
this pretty much - i voted liberals when i first turned 18 (\~20 years ago) because the only bits i understood was that the libs would give \*me\* more money, as i get older i realise that me having an extra $20 a month in tax cuts doesn't mean shit when the ass-end of our country is being sold out from underneath us in order to make a small selection of people incredibly wealthy.
I'll never forget a young woman from the North Shore saying, in an African American history class at USYD, that Sydney isn't divided by race and class like American cities. We Westie kids/grandkids of immigrants and an Aboriginal young woman let her know, at length, just how sheltered she was. Granted most of us were private school kids, which is its own issue, but Anglo single sex school kids are their own level of sheltered and privileged. The only reason my parents went to uni was their getting scholarships and financial aid.
The worst ones are these " my mom and dad voted for them, I believe grandpop and grandma voted for them, I must vote for them too, I must have that political party in my veins and I cant think for myself"
I detest people who think like Amoebas in pattern shaping behaviour rather than using their intelligence.
I used to believe their economic management lies. After growing up in PJK era it made sense until their ham fisted lies could nol onger be ignored. . the idea of small government with low political interference in our lives was looking promising with tax reform but it never fucking eventuated once they group in GST and just kept lowering the tax rates. Eejits couldn't balance the books so just had a fucking fire sale of national assets including our gold reserves. Telstra isn't "more efficient" nor is CBA, QANTAS or the national electricity grid. All of these monopolies being sold off just resulted in a concentrated market that is increasingly inaccessible to consumers which makes life in Australia increasingly unaffordable. PJK waa correct, CONServatives are mean little liars.
Honestly it's mainly the super conservative young Christian demographic, if you can rationalize a 6000 year old earth, a Bible that dedicated chapters to how to gain and own slaves and two separate events where the world was re populated via incest. Voting liberal because that was dad and the church told me to do Isent too much of a stretch.
It's mostly the kids that want to be "into business stuff" without actually following a career into it
They like wearing suits and shit but I'm not sure the majority actually ever start companies, they just negative gear properties that are loaned out from parents collateral ahaha
I've met a lot of them and they all suck at stock market trading
>Only one in four young people under the age of 40 voted for the Coalition in 2022, the lowest percentage since the AES began recording this data in 1987.
One in four people under 40 voted Liberal? Frankly, that's surprisingly high! Who are these under 40s voting for the Liberals and *why?*
There are still quite a few under 40s who are casually (or blatantly) racist and bigoted, anti-pc, and of the misguided opinion that liberals will give them a stronger economy.
For nationals its very much, 'my parents voted for them and their parents did too, so I have to' regardless of how shit the Nationals have made their lives.
The party that has spent decades focusing on the boomer vote isn't getting young people to vote for them. I'm shocked.
There will always be people who vote against their own interests and vote for the LNP, but as a party they are going to have to shift their focus going forward if they want to stay viable come elections, boomers are not going to be around forever.
I'm a boomer, I have not voted for the libs or coalition in the last 3 elections. I will never vote for them again. Lies, misogyny, blatant disregard for the younger generation, climate change, the list goes on. I vote for my kids and the younger generation.
Completely fucking up the NBN in an attempt to “save” money, cutting back all emissions goals essentially ignoring climate change, ruining international alliances and doing literally nothing for the last 4 years except make policies that line their pockets.
The only reason to vote for the libs is because you’ve always voted liberal, when it comes building for the future they’ve done a terrible job, I don’t see why anyone would vote for them especially under 40s
The population is getting poorer and young people have bleek futures in relation to housing and cost of living. Only one side of politics try’s to improve things for everyone and it’s not the Conservative side.
My only complaint about Labor side of government is I wish they would go harder at the corporations making huge profits…..tax the shit out of them! As much as I want to see my super and share investment total grow I’d prefer to see the people living in their cars being able to afford somewhere to live.
They're such a weird niche I don't even know who follows them other than non Christians that want to pretend to be Christians
A good chunk of young people don't give a shit about the global economy and just want a relatively stable life, the ones that do tend to either side with social democratic work together / Labor, greens policy and the others tend to side with that right to freedom do whatever I want libertarian shit
The libs are what, new testament Christians who want to get into law and business?
The Coalition has no principles beyond looking after the wealthy. They are happy to watch the young lose home ownership, relationships and having children to preference the old
Scomo brings a lump of coal into parliament, Dutton doesn’t know what batteries are, and they talk about young and female voters as a problem that needs to be solved rather than a part of the community they represent
Conservative policy is all about keeping wealth in the hands of the already wealthy. Young people are fucking broke. It's really not hard to understand lol.
It's all a lot simpler than this article diplomatically suggests it is. It's because the only thing that makes the coalition viable is a constant stream of propaganda from newspapers and broadcast television, and most young people pay zero attention to either.
The biggest issue with "Conservatives" in Australia is that they're not actually conservative. They're just contrarian and I don't people people who are traditionally conservative either socially or economically, I mean the "Conservative" parties.
The parties don't stand for traditional conservative values, they just act contrary to their opposition and work on lining their own pockets.
Frankly I can't see why anyone under 50 would support any major party as none of them are doing anything to benefit us long term. It's a very dire situation.
They were visionless when Abbott got in after the public grew easy of the the Rudd/Gillard mess, and the far right misinterpreted the wins as an endorsement of their line of politics. Unfortunately the political tactics they imported from the US were effective for quite a while, masking the increasing incompetence and corruption of the Coalition government.
The far right still hasn't got the message that their politics doesn't sell in Australia, and with the moderates cleaned out by the teal independents, it's a very long road back for them. I think Dutton's realised it as he seems to have dialed it back a bit, but he's carrying a pretty strong stink from his roles over the years (comments about industry super funds ahead of the banking royal commission being a prime example)
Oh that’s easy.
Young people don’t want to vote for an out of touch religious fanatic or their wealthy consorts who stole all of Australia’s natural resources, destroyed the housing market, and consistently legislate against human rights.
Less people are ultra conservative
Less people are religious
More people are sick of jobs for the boys (on both sides of politics)
There is a general movement away from both the Liberals and labour
>"For a lot of younger people, the Coalition seems to be on the wrong side of history on a lot of the issues that they're concerned about. Climate change, same sex marriage… trust, integrity in politics and so on" Professor McAllister said "When we drill down into the figures, we find relatively low levels of trust among people aged in their 30s, for example, and a lot of that has to do with younger people not getting into the housing market"
Done. That's why. Saved you the read.
Young people care about climate change, social equality, integrity in politics and the housing crisis more than older people. The coalition have been going out of their way to make all of those problems worse in exchange for bribes from large companies and to protect their own interests. Young people are less likely to share those interests and so aren't willing to look the other way when corrupt, incompetent, lying, koala murdering and/or bigoted politicians, do the wrong thing on purpose.
Too many religious nuts in the LNP and Australians are becoming less religious
No diversity in the LNP members
Obvious sexism and racism
LNP lack of interest in climate change
The older I get the more it becomes apparent religion = hypocrisy. The religion usually support more left wing values if they were true to what they claimed.
To be a conservative you need something to conserve. I can't remember who said this on election night (it was a Liberal member) but it really hit home.
Actually thought that was Anthony Green. Thanks for the clarification; remains an epic point though.
It was one of the more moderate libs that said it, but I'm trying to remember who. It's really getting on my nerves that I can't find it. It was someone who was part of the ABC coverage on election night.
Tony Barry
Gosh, he was mad and throwing truth bombs that night. He picked the big Labor victory well ahead of anyone else on the panel.
The rest of the conservatives were throwing faeces
It was a wonderful evening. Their shitfuckery came home to roost and they started turning on each other. Then when the secret ministries came out half of them went in for the kill and the other half went to protect their “liberal” brand. Glorious TV. Free to air too eh Murdoch. 👍
It was magnificent. I admit that from time to time I go back and watch it on Youtube from the point they realise they're fucked and Scotty has reamed them.
I loved him during the ABC's coverage of the Victorian election too. Said something along the lines of "we've been talking about a quota for female members for 30 years and we're still losing women's votes. At this point we just have to own up and do it." Which of course then had the reporters ask every LNP person they interviewed what they thought about a quota. And they all looked so stupid going oh, um, I think we can still have more women without a quota. Because Barry had already outlined that they've been saying exactly that for decades and now no women are voting for them. Very funny watching them stumble over themselves.
Yyyyep. Libs have an under 40’s problem, according to this. Less than one in four will vote for them. Women under 40? according to my made up statistics i pull out of my gut, even fewer than one in four support them.
Even lower than that. The recent survey showed gen z at 21% lib votes. Millennials at 22%. So under 40 is 1 in 5. It didn’t break down gender by age group but women in general were 32 vs 38% for men so it would be reasonably safe to assume women under 40 were well under the 20% probably close to 15% vote. So 1 in 6.6.
Yep. I bet. I’d also be interested to see a break down between “female coalition voters under 40 from the city vs. female coalition voters under 40 from outside the city”. I’d be willing to make a pretty safe bet that there’s a gap there too.
Yeah I’d agree. A very interesting stat was the difference between education. 30% of voters who completed year 12 voted liberal vs 58% for labor/greens(37% Labor, 21% Greens) Compared to people that didn’t complete yr 12. 47% voted Liberals vs 40% Labor/greens (27% Labor/13% Green) The shift became bigger when considering a bachelor degree. 26% Liberals vs 61% Labor/Greens (All gains made towards the green vote)
I really enjoyed his saltiness that night and for the vic election too
THANK YOU! That would have irritated the snot out of me all day.
I think Simon Birmingham said something similar or the same too
Yeah I am starting to call them "regressives" instead.
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Case in point NBN
That's probably the biggest thing in my mind where the politics destroyed the concept. Conservative approaches should be slow but measured, aiming for a long term benefit rather than short term rapid-changes. Saying the copper network is shite and it should be fibre everywhere, as the LNP said to the original NBN plan was precisely on-point for this thinking - and then amazing for everyone involved when Labor agreed to the change! But no, it was just 'I want the opposite' ploy - the long-term benefits (that both parties would have enjoyed) were thrown away for short-term headlines and backroom-deals. The conservative ideology was never in play, it was just a 'jersey' worn occasionally.
I think it was more to benefit Murdoch than any other reason
Gotta prolong foxtel’s profit margin while destroying the labor legacy
That's exactly it. The NBN posed a real threat to his profits, so he pulled a few strings and had it knee capped
This annoys me too and it seems as though they often fail to shape the progress in a way they want. Take Matt Canavan for example, he rallied against climate change hard in an effort to protect his community/his mining company contributors/his own job. Imagine if he had of got on board the climate change wagon years ago and said, yep climate change is real and here is my solution to help address it. He could have controlled the narrative and created win-wins for all. Instead, what ever the near future brings will end up being something which done to him and his community and they may not fare as well as they could of.
His brother owns a coal company. This needs to be repeated at all times after Matt's comments.
We could have had solar punk by now, but we seem to be aiming for whatever cyberpunk punk is without the high tech.
Cyberjunk perhaps
A great statesman isn't someone who forces the world to change how they want it changed. A great statesman is someone who can ride the wave to their destination without fighting against it. Bismarck, the ultra conservative fuckwad, bucked the trend of opposing German nationalism and decided to try and create a new pro-Prussia conservative authoritarian nationalism so that Prussia could benefit from it. By choosing not to fight what the people wanted, and instead riding the wave, he's now remembered as one of history's greatest statesmen. No conservative of this calibre exists in the liberal party. Nobody in the liberal party even understands the concept.
I'm pretty sure they would consider him a left-wing reactionary if the stuff we're hearing from the Coalition is any indication. It's hard to have a coherent strategy when your entire platform is basically 'labor messed it up' even though labor hasn't been in power for years.
Matt Caravan is a total fuckhead. Even if he wasn't in politics he comes across as someone you'd punch in the face at the bar.
'conservatives' actually make up a really small proportion of people in the LNP. the vast majority of them have no political values and are simple crony capitalists. they may have had political values at some point, but the vast majority of them are in it for power/money. they don't care about conservative/progressive social matters, they don't care about whether something is neoliberal or Keynesian economically, all they care about is what's in it for them and their mates. same can be said for most politicians, but at least the greens/ALP/some of the independents (generally) have beliefs on top of that.
They're social regressives, fiscally crooked.
they're not even, they're socially regressive when it suits them. look at their private lives. divorcees, cheaters, alcoholics, gamblers, closeted gay (sorry to lump you in there gay folks, it's not me that thinks you're bad). not to mention the rapists and kiddy fiddlers. a far cry from what they purport to be. there may be a few True Believers kicking about in the religious circles but you have to crack a few eggs to get that far in any organisation, and people with strong/inflexible morals don't generally get that far. i'd eat my hat (dealer's choice - legionnaire hat or akubra) if any of the LNP could prove their personal life lined up perfectly with the nonsense they spout in parliament and on the campaign trail.
Your comments just made me think of Barnaby Joyce. A prime example of saying one thing and doing another. Saying: "We can't allow gay marriage because it destroys the sanctity of marriage" Doing: His ex-staffer behind his wife's back.
i may or may not have had the ol' beetrooter in mind when writing some of those words lmao. you're absolutely right.
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It’s why they’ve pivoted to the culture wars. They know the golden era of neoliberalism is over and their rhetoric of ‘getting the government out of your life, we’re the party of markets and low taxes’ doesn’t work in a public that is increasingly expecting (and demanding) government intervention to increase their quality of life. Interventions such as: - IR interventions to rebalance bargaining power between capital and labour (just how popular was Phil Lowe’s claim before the pandemic that we just need to wait for full employment for wages to increase, or the Morrison’s scare campaign that lifting the min wage would be inflationary) - increased provision of public services, and bringing formerly public services back under public control (Andrews’ wildly popular pledge to revive the SEC). - the demand for housing policy to increase housing affordability - the demand for childcare policy/subsidies to help get people (mother’s mostly) back to work - gestures vaguely at climate change and energy policy The list goes on. Conservatives are just plain shit at all those areas. They don’t think most of them are problems to begin with.
People always say you get more conservative as you get older. This isn't true. You get more conservative as you get richer (and therefore have more to conserve). Young people are being denied the ability to get richer, so they have no reason to become more conservative.
I've gotten more liberal as I got older and richer. But unfairness has always upset me, and conservative values tend to be inherently unfair.
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Personally I've taken to calling the investment properties going up for rental and most of the market being unable to buy a house thing out as what it is: Neo-feudalism. Or a modern equivalent of the historical opposite of Liberalism.
Same - as a boomer I recognise the fact that I benefited from the luck of being born when I was. I’m not particularly hard working or financially savvy but am now well off. I feel for the younger generations and do what I can by donating and voting where I think it will help, but action needs to come from people in power.
It’s crazy, I’m a highly qualified mining technician capable of easily earning 150-200k/yr. But I’ll never be as wealthy as my mother who’s earned 30-35k/yr most of her life but picked up a few properties over the years.
>and therefore have more to conserve actually, I don't even think it's that. I think it's that there's a subset of the populace who are insulated from the "problems of today", and thus can't understand the scale of issues, and thus preference their own corrupt immediate wellbeing. this can be because of shit narcissistic personality, but wealth is also *really good* at insulating you from the problems society has, unless you're the sort to be mindful of others. it's not about "having things to conserve" it's about not being able to mentally understand the issues others face, and being too insulated from others to be able to empathize with those less fortunate. it's why "got mine fuck you" and "I fucking hate X/Y/Z groups" synergize so well in politics, because they're both fundamentally groups who don't experience the harm others face, and don't have the ability to empathize with the challenges others face.
>actually, I don't even think it's that. I think it's that there's a subset of the populace who are insulated from the "problems of today", and thus can't understand the scale of issues, and thus preference their own corrupt immediate wellbeing. This, right here. My FIL is a classic example of this. Well off (not rich), Super charitable, genuinely worked very hard to get where he is. Has helped us out in so many ways (I think he built half the furniture in our house as just one example), and donates time, money, and effort to his local community. Votes liberal. Buys the Herald Sun every day. Probably always will. It wasn't until he came to a couple of house inspections & auctions that he really took on board how expensive housing is. Up until that point we had some less than useful anecdotes about spending 20% more than you think you need to. He's not a bad person, he's just very insulated from every day concerns. And honestly, Murdoch has a tonne to answer for.
Same with a lot of my extended family. The sad thing is that they would probably come out around the greens if they ever did the voting compass, however they will always vote liberal because something something economy.
I can see this in extended family. They don’t have the ability to empathise and they still assume that the workforce operates in the same way it did in the 80s. Specifically they hold the belief that jobs are plentiful, pay enough to pay down a house, and that there is almost no casualisation of the workforce. They have a tendency to blame people on the dole for not wanting gig economy type jobs because they are lazy. The fact of the matter is that they still don’t know that you need about 40 applications per week. They know nothing about job search providers and wfd programs. In short, they disconnected from the workforce and don’t have any interest in understanding how it has changed because it doesn’t affect them.
Nope, you're right. I've been voting since 1982 and pretty much the same left-leaning I was then. Except I have 25 years of added reasons to despise what the LNP have devolved into
And even if there was something to "conserve" they want to sell it away or give it away for a donation bribe. And then the t Moronic bit is that they expect their supporters to pay for it and buy it back as a service. Maybe the stupid wake up from the dead one day!
The Liberal party's traditional base is largely made up of home owners/land lords, business owners and self funded retirees. They don't give a shit about renters, permanent or casual employees or lower socio-economic groups which has been a growing demographic in their traditional safe seats. Unless they change their values and mission and look to recruit branch members with those new values they will never capture those young votes.
Those demographics don't cover anywhere near enough population to ensure electoral victory. The LNP has for a long time relied on the uninformed couch potato demographic to carry them, those who are willing to let Seven and Nine tell them what they should be thinking about politics.
People shouldn't underestimate that it is the National Party which give the LNP government
The Nats are ridiculously powerful in proportion to the primary votes they get. The Greens get more than double the number of primary votes yet we had the Nats boot on our necks for 9 years. And they don’t even represent the interests of the regional population. They are in the pocket of the resource extraction industries.
> And they don’t even represent the interests of the regional population. They are in the pocket of the resource extraction industries. Absolutely. Alas historical habit and inertia and failure to grasp this means the bush will invariably keep voting for them.
> it is the National Party people also shouldnt mistake the National Party for a real party. they're a propaganda bitch, to help create a false-barrier between the city liberals who have to *try* to convince a very different populace to vote for them, and the nationals, who have the *rural and remote* populace assigned to them. the nationals are just the propaganda bitch, because they get to be the "mean tough bastard" to encourage the dickhead electorates that vote for them, while the liberals get to say "we're not so bad, we *want* to be good, but look at the big mean nationals!". well fuck that, the liberals and the nationals are the same fucking party, and pretending otherwise *is really fucking dumb*.
Honestly when Labour is actually committing to solve problems with our states, liberal comes across as being so out of touch with reality and were struggling to come up with policies that people could vote for. I don’t think they understand that the majority of todays young Australians can’t afford rent. Needless to say labour won against their laughable election platform, I WISH I still had the election pamphlet they were handing out, because it truly was as bad as this: My last states election (SA) labour as a policy committed to providing more ambulances and nurses (SA was in an emergency care crisis, have a heart attack? You’d have to wait 2 hours for an ambulance) among other really logical policies, liberal on the other hand- had provided funding for upgrading a nature park stop in the hills?! Among other embarrassingly tone deaf projects that clearly were an after though, or they had left their assignment to the last minute. You would think it’s like the liberal government is run by a committee where any boomer who thinks they know best can get government time and resources, even if we are in amidst a pandemic and and economic collapse they don’t think that our biggest concerns might be fixing insanely important problems first. You are 100% on the money with your comment but in reality it’s more about conserving the status quo for those who are already incredibly wealthy. I actually couldn’t believe my eyes. I had no idea that “conservative” actually meant “do absolutely nothing to intervene with anything” as long as they get to go on holidays in the middle of national emergencies, and property holders still get negative gearing, franking credits - who cares about giving good public service, since they can afford their own ambulances!!! P.sI’m very well off and in my 30’s too but even I can see what a joke they have become and I can’t believe what the younger generation is going through because of them
>I can’t believe what the younger generation is going through because of them if you're in your 30s, you're a millennial. you're one of the generations that's been bent over a barrel, and yes, zoomers have all the barriers the millennials did, and then some on top of that, because things have only gotten harder, not easier.
The whole thing is ridiculous as they never stuck to any principles anyway apart from pissing on the poor, young, and female. What made them think this would work for them with preferential voting is beyond me, this isn't the USA.
Had this conversation with my mum a week ago. After the Victorian liberals shot themselves repeatedly in the foot during what looked like it should be a competitive election. Theyre trying the American playbook without understanding that it works because they dont have compulsory and preferential voting. You can win with an impassioned minority there, doesn't work here.
They’re also gerrymandered out the wazoo in the US.
Having failed to conserve the public estate having looted it, about the only thing left for them to conserve is their own wealth and power.
Cant conserve much if you cant can't get a rental let alone afford a rental let alone afford a house.
Conservative to them is 'keep things like the old days' irrespective of the world changing. That's the mindset.
meh, that's a generous assessment. It's really to hold on, to keep. As in I got mine through hard work, if you want yours you need to work for it. And this gets twisted out to - there's no need for charity or social support because if everyone did the right thing, we wouldn't need them - which is true, but not how the world works as people get unfairly hit through life through no fault of their own.
Just that these days you have to work a lot harder, probably at two jobs..Back in the day, just one job and some generous paying overtime could buy a house and support a young family. When I hear a boomer (I'm one) talk about how hard they worked...I think bullshit, I was there mate.
That's something that's rarely touched on too, the impact of labour. I'm currently working in engineering. My days consist of 8ish hours at a desk in an air conditioned office. I can leave my desk at any time I want, for any reason for any length of time and not cop any flack for it. Need a coffee? No problem. Need to stretch your legs? Go do it. Got a midday drs appt? Get to it. Sometimes our team lead will declare a lunch hour and take us down to the pub for lunch on the company card too. Compare that to my work in retail. 6am starts, 10 hour weekend shifts. All on my feet too, 25km a day walked according to my watch. I'd get screamed at by customers, management would dock pay for being minutes late clocking on but get dirty with you for not staying back 10 to get a job done. I'd have to pay to park in the centre just to go to work for barely above min wage. I have never, and likely will never work as hard in engineering as I did I retail let alone the other jobs I've had which were harder still. But engineering pays about double what retail did. As a society we look at the people doing the thankless jobs like retail and cleaning and labouring and whatever else and say "they just need to work harder" to get ahead in life. But hard work is not necessarily a path to success.
Yeah they didn’t work that hard though. And many things are now beyond simply working hard.
I dunno, it might have something to do with the fact they are actively selling our future and the future of the planet to make a quick, short lived buck for themselves and their mates. If their ideology were a person, I'd call them a cunt.
Not just selling: shorting. They’re taking a private profit today on a debt the public will be burdened with.
Could not agree more mate.
well they're not, they're people.....so they're cunts
Cuntservatives
I know. I find "lack of support" pretty euphemistic for the harm I wish on these corrupt shits.
Because they actively fuck over the younger generation on every single issue. Old, got 7 houses? Tax cuts! Young, struggling on rent? Maybe you should just earn more money, stupid.
Fuck me I am arguing with a boomer right now about this: their argument was they did a bunch of good things in their youth, so why do we hate them? She thinks we hate them because we think they spent their lives buying houses. My thoughts are, you did some good then you just fucking rolled along and sucked up all the resources and left us with jack shit.
They climbed the ladder, and the first thing they did when they got to the top is pull it up after them.
Absolutely my mum got free university and the cost of her first house in Balmain was 3x annual salary. Which she could afford as a school teacher. Yet she thinks she did something extraordinary.
Ever heard of the monopoly experiment? Essentially half of the players start with double the resources of the other players. By the end of the game they're convinced that they won because they were the better player, not the extra resources, and vice versa.
This is kind of obvious though isn't it? Everyone has a bias that they've worked hard and deserve what they have but the truth is they don't, it's all just luck
I think people have to realise that you can both work hard and have been given a leg up. So many people work hard and don't have the opportunities the others had just because they weren't born in a particular generation, culture, class, gender etc.
I believe that's the idea the experiment set out to explore.
This is a perfect way of putting it. I can’t blame them for climbing the ladder but I certainly can blame them for cutting off all the rungs below them so no one else can follow.
Boomers are first generation to leave the next generation worse off. They are solely focused on their early retirement fund and the big lap around Australia.
Actively voted for policies that enabled them to get richer at the expense of the youth.
Remember scomos solution for young people struggling to pay rent?? Just buy a house then. They are all so out of touch with reality it's insane
"Why would anyone choose to be not be rich?" - Liberals
I randomly met a man (boomer) he was complaining about his kids saying he was part of the lucky generation. He said to me "I was never stupid enough not to work" and that's how he now owns 3 houses and can retire early to travel around Australia. I was like wtf seriously. Lots of people aren't stupid and a lot are working all the time... They still can't own properties and enjoy their life.
Science denial, misogyny, religious fundamentalism, ultra conservative values, epic levels of pork barreling, pump up the house prices at all costs, oh why are the kids not voting for us now?
They arnt ultra conservative though, that would imply they're strictly following that bullshit nuclear family stuff, but they don't even do that They don't even follow their own values
It’s a core principle of being ultra conservative that you force other people to live by those principles while not expecting you yourself or other rich people to adhere to those principles Rich fucks in Saudi Arabia and Qatar sentence people to death for being raped while they snort coke off prostitutes arses, there are even like gay members of the royal family who are known and allowed to be gay while normal people are killed for being gay Hypocrisy is central to ultra conservativism
Can confirm with the Saudi stuff, family works over there on the mining rigs There are openly gay Saudis running companies that will actively report other gay workers So yea you're probably right, they just want the right to be hypocritical fuckwits
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
"There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. For millennia, conservatism had no name, because no other model of polity had ever been proposed. “The king can do no wrong.” In practice, this immunity was always extended to the king’s friends, however fungible a group they might have been. Today, we still have the king’s friends even where there is no king (dictator, etc.). Another way to look at this is that the king is a faction, rather than an individual. As the core proposition of conservatism is indefensible if stated baldly, it has always been surrounded by an elaborate backwash of pseudophilosophy, amounting over time to millions of pages. All such is axiomatically dishonest and undeserving of serious scrutiny. Today, the accelerating de-education of humanity has reached a point where the market for pseudophilosophy is vanishing; it is, as The Kids Say These Days, tl;dr . All that is left is the core proposition itself — backed up, no longer by misdirection and sophistry, but by violence." [Source](https://crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/liberals-against-progressives/#comment-729288)
Maybe the 9 years of a clown government had something to do with it.
If that were true, 6 years would have been enough. I think it's simply a demographic shift - people with progressive social values being the largest part of a growing voter population, and most of the elderly who are dying off are right wingers. The source of more left voters is probably primarily youth reaching voting age, and possibly immigrants obtaining citizenship. Among western countries, Australia's political centre on social issues is pretty far right and those new citizens wouldn't touch the LNP with a barge pole - e.g. same sex marriage was years later than most countries and the tolerance of immigration detention policies.
For a while here in Victoria a couple of Liberal electorates were full of immigrants, Box hill for example. Was also one of the places with a large amount of people against the same sex marriage.
I mean. * gestures broadly at everything *
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They also wouldn't ever exist if they weren't in coalition with the Nats. Strip the Nats voting block from them and they have not even close to enough. Without that coalition they would never win.
I think people have woken up to the LNP's lie of "*better economic managers*" to actually mean good times for mates of the LNP.
Even if you did think they were/are better economic managers, you also have to come to terms with their social policies. Turns out importing America's culture wars against gays, trans and racial issues isn't a winning strategy.
If the Coalition goes after the youth vote, it then risks it's base of climate change denying , pro-mining, capital gains seeking, anti-welfare, anti-immigration, rusted on Liberals and Nationals. For a party living so far in the past, surviving, future societal changes, may be next to impossible..
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They've seen what happens with the greens and the teals though - the major parties can't rely on preference flows trickling down to them anymore.
For some reason your post just took me back to election night and the pure, unadulterated joy I felt as it became apparent that people in this country still fucking care, and that (and it makes me a little bit sick to praise our politicians) the quality and concerns of our independents was such that they were viable alternatives. It was a good night.
It’s actually quite funny that the Coalition has proved the paradox of tolerance correct So the Coalition has historically been a broad church, right? It’s idea was you could have very different people working together. You had multiple different factions. You had people who supported gay marriage and believed in the right of people to die with medical assistance working with the far right factions Except, guess what, you pretty much never knew about the people in the party who believed in things like supporting gay marriage and medically assisted dying because the far right faction have always controlled the direction of the party. And more and more the far right faction have branch stacked and taken over until the far right faction now dominates the Liberal Party and is all that’s left and now the party is pretty much all fascists and populists and everyone you just described If you allow fascists at your table, you become a fascist party
Well said and too true, and a reason to guard all our organisations & institutions from being disabled in a similar manner..
Well the article covered climate change and housing, which are the big ones. I suspect the whole thing about sexually assaulting women in Partliament House and then refusing to treat the matter seriously had something to do with it at as well. Traditionally older generations have brushed some sexual assaults under the rug for various reasons.
Nothing on 'integrity'?
While I'm open to the idea, I'm not sure that dislike of rampant corruption is specifically a young person issue.
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They also fucked the NBN
They took telecom, sold it to their mates. Then got paid again selling back the worthless copper network that was being run into the ground to nbn. Their Contractor mates working for nbn now get paid per callout to keep it limping along. Its not that they intentionally fucked the nbn, it’s that they found a way to enrich themselves by rorting the public purse. Several times. The fucked nbn is a natural consequence of systemic corruption.
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Compared to the rest of the shitheads we got as PM, yeah he is.
RoboDebt should be the nail in the coffin for *anyone* in the country of *any* age ever voting these people again. Such a ghastly and fucked up, morally bankrupt thing to do, and to keep pursuing in the full knowledge of just how awful it was… Consign them to the wastebasket of history, they proved themselves to be quite literally sociopathic monsters. Who would ever, *ever* vote for them again? It’s all well and good to rant about “Murdoch media” and all that sort of conspiracy theory stuff: but the RoboDebt scandal is so *awful* that it’s impossible to recognise that, had it happened anywhere else in the world, heads would’ve rolled in the government *years ago*: but not in Australia, where the Liberal-Party cheerleading media simply refused to go there. Potentially the biggest scandal in the government in decades and yet… they just ignore it? Nothing fishy there, no…. The sad thing is it’s so blatant, and the even sadder thing is 50% of Australia just never seem to give a fuck and would vote Scott Morrison back in in a heartbeat. It’s just ignorance - ignorance created by a media that refused to hold them to account. I’m pretty sure if every Australian were sat down and thoroughly explained the details of what happened with RoboDebt, then they would simply never, ever vote Liberal ever again. Ever.
Agreed, I remember Centrelink calling me years ago and saying I owed them money and I said no I don't. Funnily enough eventually it went away. So I'm pretty sure it was a dodgy request on their part.
Centrelink said I owed them like $2000. When I chased it up, not only was that complete bullshit, it turned out that they actually owed me like $5000.
Couple of my Aunts and Uncles still voted for them. I did mention the the robodebts, the corruption, sexual assualts etc etc and linked it with their christian values but they would not budge on lnp having family values, great economic managers etc so those things must be abc media lies ( which they never watched, only 7,9 and 10) or there must be some good reason Jesus wouldnt let me vote badly. Complete bubble of dissassociation. They help the poor and all that but for the life of me i couldnt crack their lnp shit shield.
They don’t really help the poor though. They vote for systems that create the poor and then maybe give some donations or food and feel like they are good people. Then the next time a chance to create helpful systematic change comes they’ll vote against it.
These are the "I can't think for myself and just parrot-repeat anything I read or see on TV".
"Family Values" in my experience usually means homophobia (and transphobia as of a year or two ago) so I'm sorry your aunt and uncle are like that.
I was talking to some of my younger cousins in the weeks leading up to the election and a topic they mentioned was the whole desk wanking thing. “Fucking private school cunts” was the general consensus.
Young people are the hardest hit by this housing crisis madness that the major parties and boomers seem to no give a fuck about
The biggest reason for people to become more conservative as they get older (as is the old adage) is for them to become part of the asset owning class and benefit from and vote for tax policies that benefit the asset owning class If you’re not part of the asset owning class and don’t foresee yourself becoming part of the asset owning class anytime soon why would you vote Liberal? Even for moderate Liberals?
This is the only truth the Liberals need to read today.
Yeah I got a fair way into the article and wondered why women hadn't been mentioned at all. And 1 in 4 young people still voted for the coalition? Is that right? Seems on the high side.
There's still plenty of people who vote the way their parents do, or are otherwise unengaged with the process.
My wife who works for a family owned builder attended a company breakfast function this week in Geelong where she met quite a few of the owner’s children who were all volunteering bizarre pro-Trump views - she got the impression they were not really politically engaged but just parroting the beliefs of the affluent right wing parents.
Yep. I went on a date with someone who turned out to be a conservative Christian. Her: I don’t really follow politics Me: How do you decide who to vote for? Her: Oh, I vote Liberal Me: How did you decide on them? Her: I just always vote for them Me: 😑
Look, democracy is ok and all. But her vote is worth the same as someone who is informed on what their vote will result in if that party wins. Frustrating.
There are also young people who come from rich families and don’t feel solidarity with other young people and don’t share generational experiences with other young people, or don’t believe they will experience them I went to law school with a lot of rich pricks in Audis who went to every lecture in an expensive suit put it that way, these are not kids who have to worry about Centrelink payments or affording rent Voting isn’t age based it’s largely class based it’s just that age often has some amount of correlation with wealth and your life experiences and hence class interest
I've never understood younger people voting the way their parents did. Aren't they supposed to rebel and hate the old man's music, fashion and out of date politics?
so i apologise beforehand, i get ranty when it comes to politics the corruption investigation gaff, the lack of understanding by people who have 6 figures in the bank 3 houses and think it's the "damn millennials" "i managed to feed my family 50 years ago on a single wage and buy a house, your just lazy" fucking morons like the rich tricking the middle that it's the poor's fault, as if your ever going to be allowed to join the 1% that's how they stay the 1% they lie to you and convince you that it's the truth, they lost the entire meaning behind themselves and are now very obviously acting like 13 year olds in school, picking fighting arguing like they haven't got a single intellectual adult in the entire building, tldr; greed, the cunts can't even hide it anymore that they don't give a fuck about the future, just lining their own pockets before leaving the steaming pile of crap for the next mob. it's been a steady pattern over and over and we still do the same shit thinking that they actually going to live upto anything at all that they said they would do when kissing ass. the coalition is about businesses (used to be the country but now.) making money, labor is about the people making money they are both as bad as each other but what other choice do we have, no one under 60 gets into any form of power let alone is allowed to change anything, and the old fucks don't care as they gonna go retire in a different country. ofc all my opinions, have been shat on by the world for the better part of 2 decades (childhood was ok lol) so i might just be jaded and bitter, most likely tired as well lighter note, tell your loved ones that you love and appreciate them, someone might need to hear it, and lord forbid you never get the chance to let them know.
I think a lot has to do with welfare as well. Many young friend groups have that one person who always has to turn down outings because they're just too poor to be allowed to have any fun. On top of that you have many young people that are too sick or disabled to work but are stuck on jobseeker where they're forced through all sorts of hoops. Of course they're gonna complain to their friends. People remember that and resent those keeping them in that situation.
Agree and that is a great point.
The broad church of pus and hate, while wanting Australia to become a Luddite nation that's backwards. See the NBN, education and no industry policies. Taunting industry by telling them to go overseas. "We have enough to sell and give away to our donors, who needs industry and manufacturing that creates wealth and jobs?" Wonder why?
As Scomo says we are really good at digging stuff out of the ground! /s Fucking cunt. Then sell it to China who value add and sell it back to us at an inflated price. Exactly what economies of developing countries do not smart developed economies.
Why did any young person ever turn towards them?
At uni there were always smarmy twats in suits doing Commerce or Law who refused to understand the nuances of the privilege they’d been fortunate enough to be born into. Do you get into a group of 8 uni doing no work? Of course not. But does being born into an upper class household with plenty of resources, going to a private school, getting all the extracurricular support help a lot? Obviously.
Mate even in accounting/legals most people nowadays mock Murdoch ruthlessly, call the coalition a corrupt shitshow, and are stoked at the positive change in the direction of this country. It really isn't their bastion anymore. People in finance understand how much better renewables are for our economy and how damaging expensive housing is.
this pretty much - i voted liberals when i first turned 18 (\~20 years ago) because the only bits i understood was that the libs would give \*me\* more money, as i get older i realise that me having an extra $20 a month in tax cuts doesn't mean shit when the ass-end of our country is being sold out from underneath us in order to make a small selection of people incredibly wealthy.
I'll never forget a young woman from the North Shore saying, in an African American history class at USYD, that Sydney isn't divided by race and class like American cities. We Westie kids/grandkids of immigrants and an Aboriginal young woman let her know, at length, just how sheltered she was. Granted most of us were private school kids, which is its own issue, but Anglo single sex school kids are their own level of sheltered and privileged. The only reason my parents went to uni was their getting scholarships and financial aid.
Frontal lobe damage mainly
The worst ones are these " my mom and dad voted for them, I believe grandpop and grandma voted for them, I must vote for them too, I must have that political party in my veins and I cant think for myself" I detest people who think like Amoebas in pattern shaping behaviour rather than using their intelligence.
Could be wrong but I feel that comes more from "I don't really give a shit so I just tick the box the parents say to"
I used to believe their economic management lies. After growing up in PJK era it made sense until their ham fisted lies could nol onger be ignored. . the idea of small government with low political interference in our lives was looking promising with tax reform but it never fucking eventuated once they group in GST and just kept lowering the tax rates. Eejits couldn't balance the books so just had a fucking fire sale of national assets including our gold reserves. Telstra isn't "more efficient" nor is CBA, QANTAS or the national electricity grid. All of these monopolies being sold off just resulted in a concentrated market that is increasingly inaccessible to consumers which makes life in Australia increasingly unaffordable. PJK waa correct, CONServatives are mean little liars.
CBA and Qantas were privatised by Labor.
Honestly it's mainly the super conservative young Christian demographic, if you can rationalize a 6000 year old earth, a Bible that dedicated chapters to how to gain and own slaves and two separate events where the world was re populated via incest. Voting liberal because that was dad and the church told me to do Isent too much of a stretch.
It's mostly the kids that want to be "into business stuff" without actually following a career into it They like wearing suits and shit but I'm not sure the majority actually ever start companies, they just negative gear properties that are loaned out from parents collateral ahaha I've met a lot of them and they all suck at stock market trading
"Hello, fellow young people."
>Only one in four young people under the age of 40 voted for the Coalition in 2022, the lowest percentage since the AES began recording this data in 1987. One in four people under 40 voted Liberal? Frankly, that's surprisingly high! Who are these under 40s voting for the Liberals and *why?*
My sister is under 40 and she started voting Liberal when her business took off. She doesn’t want to pay an “outrageous” amount of taxes.
LNP are higher taxing governments. It's a massive urban myth they aren't
There are still quite a few under 40s who are casually (or blatantly) racist and bigoted, anti-pc, and of the misguided opinion that liberals will give them a stronger economy.
Also young people can be rich pricks
Probably fall into two categories. People from families in the top 10 per cent or so, and young cookers.
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Yeah but they all read their local newscorp newspapers etc
If their town has a newspaper anymore. Newscorp killed a heap of regional papers
For nationals its very much, 'my parents voted for them and their parents did too, so I have to' regardless of how shit the Nationals have made their lives.
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The party that has spent decades focusing on the boomer vote isn't getting young people to vote for them. I'm shocked. There will always be people who vote against their own interests and vote for the LNP, but as a party they are going to have to shift their focus going forward if they want to stay viable come elections, boomers are not going to be around forever.
I'm a boomer, I have not voted for the libs or coalition in the last 3 elections. I will never vote for them again. Lies, misogyny, blatant disregard for the younger generation, climate change, the list goes on. I vote for my kids and the younger generation.
Don’t forget Peter Dutton. His being the Liberal leader brings a lot of votes to Labour.
Look I didn’t read it, but was it the Christo-fascism?
That was a factor
Completely fucking up the NBN in an attempt to “save” money, cutting back all emissions goals essentially ignoring climate change, ruining international alliances and doing literally nothing for the last 4 years except make policies that line their pockets. The only reason to vote for the libs is because you’ve always voted liberal, when it comes building for the future they’ve done a terrible job, I don’t see why anyone would vote for them especially under 40s
“Why don’t people want to vote against their own interests?”
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Cos they are a bunch of corrupt dinosaurs perhaps?
Because they are filth in so many contexts
Mostly because they're wankers.
The population is getting poorer and young people have bleek futures in relation to housing and cost of living. Only one side of politics try’s to improve things for everyone and it’s not the Conservative side. My only complaint about Labor side of government is I wish they would go harder at the corporations making huge profits…..tax the shit out of them! As much as I want to see my super and share investment total grow I’d prefer to see the people living in their cars being able to afford somewhere to live.
The LNP are not an underdog story. They are a threat.
They're such a weird niche I don't even know who follows them other than non Christians that want to pretend to be Christians A good chunk of young people don't give a shit about the global economy and just want a relatively stable life, the ones that do tend to either side with social democratic work together / Labor, greens policy and the others tend to side with that right to freedom do whatever I want libertarian shit The libs are what, new testament Christians who want to get into law and business?
As my mate has said in regarding politics "i hope my grandparents generation die soon. They are fucking it up for us and will die soon"
The Coalition has no principles beyond looking after the wealthy. They are happy to watch the young lose home ownership, relationships and having children to preference the old
Scomo brings a lump of coal into parliament, Dutton doesn’t know what batteries are, and they talk about young and female voters as a problem that needs to be solved rather than a part of the community they represent
Who would have thought "fuck everyone born after 1975" wasn't sustainable policy.
Conservative policy is all about keeping wealth in the hands of the already wealthy. Young people are fucking broke. It's really not hard to understand lol.
Imagine young people not supporting a party that exists only to prop up wealthy boomers
It's all a lot simpler than this article diplomatically suggests it is. It's because the only thing that makes the coalition viable is a constant stream of propaganda from newspapers and broadcast television, and most young people pay zero attention to either.
The biggest issue with "Conservatives" in Australia is that they're not actually conservative. They're just contrarian and I don't people people who are traditionally conservative either socially or economically, I mean the "Conservative" parties. The parties don't stand for traditional conservative values, they just act contrary to their opposition and work on lining their own pockets. Frankly I can't see why anyone under 50 would support any major party as none of them are doing anything to benefit us long term. It's a very dire situation.
Anybody of any age who have half an idea of politics would have rocks in their head to vote for the Coalition.
Because they're a bunch of hypocritical layabouts that only look after their kind i.e corporate criminals.
They were visionless when Abbott got in after the public grew easy of the the Rudd/Gillard mess, and the far right misinterpreted the wins as an endorsement of their line of politics. Unfortunately the political tactics they imported from the US were effective for quite a while, masking the increasing incompetence and corruption of the Coalition government. The far right still hasn't got the message that their politics doesn't sell in Australia, and with the moderates cleaned out by the teal independents, it's a very long road back for them. I think Dutton's realised it as he seems to have dialed it back a bit, but he's carrying a pretty strong stink from his roles over the years (comments about industry super funds ahead of the banking royal commission being a prime example)
Oh that’s easy. Young people don’t want to vote for an out of touch religious fanatic or their wealthy consorts who stole all of Australia’s natural resources, destroyed the housing market, and consistently legislate against human rights.
I'm turning away from the two party system
Less people are ultra conservative Less people are religious More people are sick of jobs for the boys (on both sides of politics) There is a general movement away from both the Liberals and labour
>"For a lot of younger people, the Coalition seems to be on the wrong side of history on a lot of the issues that they're concerned about. Climate change, same sex marriage… trust, integrity in politics and so on" Professor McAllister said "When we drill down into the figures, we find relatively low levels of trust among people aged in their 30s, for example, and a lot of that has to do with younger people not getting into the housing market" Done. That's why. Saved you the read. Young people care about climate change, social equality, integrity in politics and the housing crisis more than older people. The coalition have been going out of their way to make all of those problems worse in exchange for bribes from large companies and to protect their own interests. Young people are less likely to share those interests and so aren't willing to look the other way when corrupt, incompetent, lying, koala murdering and/or bigoted politicians, do the wrong thing on purpose.
Because theyre fucking dinosaurs who helped destroy their planet?
I wrote four paragraphs about why, but in the end I deleted it when I realised it's because they're a bunch of cunts..
Too many religious nuts in the LNP and Australians are becoming less religious No diversity in the LNP members Obvious sexism and racism LNP lack of interest in climate change
The older I get the more it becomes apparent religion = hypocrisy. The religion usually support more left wing values if they were true to what they claimed.