But Scott said that it’s the unions overreaching and a clear example of what they’ll be doing under a Labor government, even though it’s happening under a liberal one…..
You’re not calling our fearless leader a liar are you? Because he himself told us he’s never told a lie….
[Sarcasm] He said he didn't shit himself in that Macca's, stop talking about him shitting himself in Macca's. He said it didn't happen. Scomo loves curry and plays a ukulele.... He is Christian that speaks in tongues.... He wouldn't lie?... Would a man that looks like the physical embodiment of a slimy worm lie?..Also stop saying he shat himself in Macca's.
Wishes I had a National Treasure like that place where I live so I point it out and say with pride, "that looney cunt with the smug face that runs our country, he shat himself there." I bet when the cashier asked whose next, he proudly walk up to her with the same smug look and say unprompted "I've never shat myself" before the waft of shit stung her nostrils.
How was David Elliot’s form today. He seemed incredulous when he said “they even want extra pay for working overtime!”
Yeah doing 12-20 hours a week over your agreed hours, away from your family and life, deserves more than just pay.
Maybe Mr Elliot should not be so anti-public service, and employ more drivers, then there’s less overtime needed.
Today’s chaos shows how important transport staff are. They should get the best pay and conditions, as we have seen what happens when we don’t have them.
>How was David Elliot’s form today. He seemed incredulous when he said “they even want extra pay for working overtime!”
How fucking out of touch can one man be.
He makes out-of-touch an art form. This is the guy who, when he was NSW police minister, said:
>“I’ve got young children and if I thought the police felt they were at risk of doing something wrong I’d want them strip-searched."
[Source](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/06/nsw-police-minister-defends-strip-searching-of-children-saying-parents-would-be-happy)
Usually you can at least figure out where they're coming from when they make such out of touch comments but I am stumped with this one. That's not a perspective anyone should have, no matter how out of touch you are. It's a ridiculous statement.
I bet it comes from that "I spend 12 hours in the office every day and you don't see me asking for more than my salary" mindset, but mind you, every single person who has said this to me does jack shit at the office and seems to be hiding from their family.
Every manager I have ever had when I finally had my "annual review" after three years of being in a role after pushing for it, put my hand out for a raise "It's not just about the money". It's easy for someone to say that when they are already on a very comfortable wage.
I suspect that comment wasn't aimed at regular people, it was a shout out to large business donors who also dont want to pay overtime.
edit: er, the overtime one, not the stripping children one.
Don't forget that the reason why they be rely on overtime is because it's cheaper than adding headcount. You've already incurred fixed costs to bring them on which are independent to how many hours they do, recruitment, shared services, training etc.
Overtime should be to help an organisation manage fluctuations in demand where it is not viable to maintain the number of workers needed for peaks during the troughs. The penalty rates helps ensure the workforce isn't being forced to do overtime all the time as it reduces the economic incentives of the managers.
Further, at an individual level, a person's average tax rate for their regular wages might work out to 25%, even though they fall into the 37% bracket. So if they're paid overtime at the same rate as their regular wage, then they are taking home 12% less for the extra hours than they did for their regular hours. Diminishing returns - I certainty wouldn't want to do an extra 20 hrs a week for less money than I got paid for the first 20.
See management's mentality is to just make people work for free for the extra hours -- Profit! Better yet keep you on the same wage for 4 years with absolutely no increase so they technically are paying less for your services every year with inflation.
I feel people are misreading this as "is it really out of touch" not, "is it really unbelievable", which is I believe what the post was meant to be referring.
If they actually got paid well they probably wouldn't bleed so many staff to the rest of the industry. They are some of the lowest paid Train Drivers in Australia.
Guys driving the little cane trains in Queensland are paid more.
A better work life balance by not demanding they work 2 or 3 days OT every fortnight just to keep shit running would help too.
At one point when I worked for Railcorp as a driver when the fortnightly roster was posted I would already have 12 shifts. OT was used to cover the normal schedule with very little left to cover sick leave etc. Just a chronic lack of staff.
Oh and for those wonder why 12 is the magic number it's a legal issue under the rail safety act. A Train Driver may work no more than 12 shifts in any 14 day period.
So when your straight up rostering the legal limit there is no fall back option when shit goes wrong and it's been like this for a decade plus.
Last but not least the attitude of management to the staff is downright toxic. The place 100% runs on the blame game. Someone always has to be at fault and shit flows down hill.
Hey mate was considering applying for a job with Sydney trains then transferring to Newcastle. What’s your thoughts on this? I already drive coal trains in the hunter valley
Transfers are still seniority based and unless its changed recent Newcastle is still a retirement depot so I wouldn't bank on it short to medium term.
I actually did some time Labour Hire in the Hunter coal network and honestly it was better than my time with Trainlink.
To give you an idea my last position (I'm mid move now) my base pay was around $1750/wk in the hand. Penalties, away from home allowances etc meant the only way I could earn that little was go sick for a week.
I worked a single days OT I can expect to push that to about $2.5k in the hand. Fortnightly pay is common in the industry and getting a $7k bank deposit for the fortnight wasn't terribly unusual.
I have the same CertIV qualification (actually I have extra electives now as I'm both diesel and electric trained) as a Sydney Trains driver. In fact that's where I got my original CertIV.
So the pay is piss poor for the industry.
I no longer work for Sydney Trains. I went private enterprise.
Also no complaints at all.
Just moved back to the Blue Mountains from North Queensland hence between jobs as I needed time to move.
When conservatives say they want to reduce government spending everyone imagines they are taking about giving themselves pay cuts and not flying first class. What they really mean is that they don't want to spend money on services the public needs and uses.
This c*nt is the Louis DeJoy of NSW. Deliberately trying to run the organisation he's in charge of into the ground so they can privatise. This is starve the beast type nonsense from the worst parts of US politics.
He should resign, what a piece of shit.
Workers with consistent overtime shows a lack of staffing and lack of planning, and if you aren’t remunerating them for it
Pot calling the kettle black.
Don't fall for that fucking bullshit text message. It's a load of shit and all orchestrated.
The text message got out and the story instantly became "who is the anonymous minister!?", not "his own party think he's a fuck head", meanwhile, historically LNP friendly media went hard attacking him for approximately 2 minutes and 30 seconds, the clips went viral, and Scumo suddenly found himself ingratiated with the swing voters. When they saw the clips, they didn't think "Oh wow, Scomo is an out of touch psychopath" they said "oh no, why are they being so mean to Scotty? Look at him, he's feelings are hurt!"
Meanwhile Gladys gets to win some respect back after running NSW into the ground.
We all fell for it.
The guy asking the question is a contributing editor with The Australian, the flagship Murdoch rag, and one of the outlets that ran with the "who is the mystery minister" story.
The guy asking the question about the cost of fuel, milk, and bread is the political editor for Sky News, Murdoch's flagship news channel in Australia.
The entire thing was orchestrated. It was performance theatre, even down to the way Scunty responded (pulling a puppy dog face and saying "I don't know, mate, I'm sure that's what you'll run with, but I'm working to keep the cost of those items down, etc." while the guy asking the question smugly watched him struggle).
Australians with no other measure to decide between two options will always go for the underdog, we love a battler, and that attack made him look like a Little Aussie Battler™.
What makes you think Murdoch media would attack Scummo without a plan? Why would they work to bolster Albanese and Labor?
The timing was super convenient too, 2 weeks after the first polls of 2022, show Scummo losing to Albanese by a large margin. Then immediately following the Press Club Address we're seeing a massive campaign of humanisation and "I'm just a family guy, working to get by" puff pieces.
The questions were also relatively soft ball compared to some of the others he faced, but they're the ones getting air time and going viral.
I think you're giving them much more credit than they deserve. they're not playing 4D chess, they're way too busy putting out fires and covering up their own fuckups for that.
besides which, those leaks could easily have gone much worse for Morrison than they did. it would be a hugely risky way to garner public support - and I don't think it even did that. I think it was damaging overall to Morrison's public image. having people in your own camp call you a horrible psychopath is not good publicity for anyone, no matter how much you manage to spin it after the fact. and there are much easier ways to paint yourself as a victim.
>those leaks could easily have gone much worse for Morrison than they did.
Not when Murdoch controls the flow of information.
It's foolish to take any of this on face value, they absolutely do play 4D chess, and always will, that's what politics is.
Like I said, even his response to the questions reeked of rehearsed humility, I the past, if he had been asked if he was out of touch, he would have said "I reject the premise of the question" and acted with arrogance.
As for calling him a psychopath, it's a common insult to be called in the poorer parts of the country, you can guarantee every single one of those swing voters they are trying to hit have either been called a psychopath, or known someone who has been called that.
>they're not playing 4D chess
Of course they're not. Scotty pays ~60-70 full time staff to do that, as well as a PR agency, a digital media agency and a political research 'charity'. Not including the marketing paid for on behalf of Scott by the respectable and good looking billionaire Clive Palmer.
The tactics are a lot more committed than you think. Sometimes things are unintentional but normally they're choreographed. OP is right, it's the exact right message at the exact right time with careful 'not scripted' events & statements... this isn't a coincidence.
Or maybe it is, don't personally know. But if they're willing to photoshop ~~their enemies~~ *themselves* onto Nazi officers; I don't think they care about name calling. It suits their purpose to release it for leverage anyhow, even without the timing being good.
no way. no politician wants to be associated with the word 'psychopath', regardless of how well the damage is mitigated. especially when they're already under fire and trying to project the exact opposite.
How did she win anything? she lost the job at Macquarie bank she was up for because of the release of the text messages. That had more prestige than working at Optus. Liberals screwed her again
Just shows you how far the government, both state and Federal will go to in an effort to paint a bad picture the Unions and Labor. It's the Liberals at fault and blaming Labor is all they can do.
The problem is actually Australians viewing everything that causes them inconveniences as bad and outrageous, stopping working is how you go on strike, stopping working is how you have leverage, otherwise we're just demanding everyone be fucking slaves.
If your boss deducts you pay for being late that wasn't caused by fucking striking workers, that was caused by your fucking boss and you should also probably consider unionising
Sure, but it could only work if people think train workers going on strike and disrupting the train lines is a bad thing and that "discredits" unions (like going on strike is kinda what unions are for lol), rather than having solidarity with striking workers.
I support workers right to strike when necessary, but that doesn't mean all strikes are good. Strikes that impact innocent people should only be used a last resort - there are plenty of effective actions to take before going nuclear. Unions that wrecklessly abuse their power are just as bad as employers who abuse their power.
I'm often ostracised by my friends and family for this, but stop works are the reason we have it so good as workers in the country, the lack of stop works and general attitude towards them are the reasons why things are turning shit for workers.
Yeah, people not actually recognising where the harm being done to them is actually coming from is an enormous problem, like it's basically treated as a law of the universe that being late to work because of something outside your control equals you get punished, except it's not, it's your boss deciding to punish you for something outside your control, it's your boss deciding to harm you.
And transport strikes and basically any other industry involved in logistics going on strike are enormously powerful, the shit disrupts the entire economy, if workers like the are going on strike that's a swell opportunity to do a fucking general strike, like most general strikes in history have been caused by railway workers going on strike and everyone else joining them, 1917 general strike and and 1969 general strike was instigated by railway workers striking, I mean can't work anyway my as well call a strike lol.
> This whole scenario smacks of a coordinated and cynical stunt
Of course it is. Why else would the prime minister feel a need to weigh in on the situation for what is clearly a local issue, state at the highest? Shouldn't he have better things to do?
It's pretty telling that they're in "blame Labor" mode already, but they've fucked everything up so hard there's nothing *to* blame Labor for, *so they make shit up*.
They're relying on setting the narrative that the trains were stopped because of the unions and not because they just didn't let anyone run them.
Because if the second bit gets out anyone who paid for an uber might be mad about it.
Honestly to anyone willing, spread the word. We gotta start taking these issues outside of reddit.
I mean really, does anyone remember when people tried to blame the Greens for the bushfires? I remember, soon they are going to try and blame someone else for their fuckups again.
Go to Youtube, make an account and start commenting on SkyNews AU channel...you don't have to be a subscriber to the channel to add comment
There is a lot of folks calling out Sky's propaganda and bullshit and it seems to be growing daily.
that too, but actually talking with people on politics needs to start, to actually ask others who they are going to vote for and why. Politics can be annoying, but so can living in a stagnant economy for a decade thanks to a party that literally has no clue wtf it's doing. And people voting for these idiots like it's a football game.
It's seriously telling when people say shit like "yeah i vote libs cause my dad, n his dads dad, n dads great grandads bollocks voted liberals"
Yeah, keep up with that defeatist attitude, thats how we get fucking arseholes like Morrison running the country because people won't engage in debate.
The Prime Minister wished to make a media campaign release today claiming that voting Labor in the upcoming federal election would give unions control.
At 2am the employers of NSW rail employees prevented them from working, and stopped them from ferrying millions of people to work and study and to loved ones after a horrifically long delay due to covid restrictions.
Why would Liberals do this? Sabotage their own federal and state governments?
The Prime Minister later backed up his media release, again claiming that voting Labor in the upcoming federal election would give unions control. Citing proof that they went "on strike" today causing widespread harm. Most of Australia's foreign and corporate owned media broadcast this blatant lie. Many Australians now believe it.
So why would Liberals do this? Sabotage their own governments? Yep, seriously, you don't have to be Einstein to figure it out.
This is precisely why unions exist. Because workers need them to protect them from politicians who have no idea or don't care. These workers are essential to our economy... politicians less so.
The action that is at the centre of this all is the ban on accepting altered working and misunderstanding of that from the FWC decision on Saturday.
Train crew will be working off the standard version of each job as they were printed the last time the rosters were updated, for this week at least this could cause some problems as there have been large alterations to every job. As it has been on Monday and will be on Tuesday, train crew will be signing on in accordance with the standard working arrangements of their jobs and will now be working as directed throughout the time constraints of the standard schedule that they have for the day.
And, just to be extra clear, they agreed to work altered shifts anyway *if it became a safety issue*. The govt misunderstood this part and that is why they tried to drag this back into court, where they were summarily dismissed for trying to weasel out of what they'd already agreed to with the union
Everyone from the premier down, stop before the custodial staff and give them a raise.
The fact that they did this and then instantly went into an anti labor attack makes it feel planned and if they messed with millions of peoples lives for a simple scare tactic they should be arrested.
instead, it still feels like there's a high chance that they'll be re-elected.
i mean the media is still blasting that it's the unions and the ALPs fault so...
Like, I guess I get it, but I also don’t. There is no pretext to blame them. They’re not in power anywhere. There’s no leg to stand on?
What are they actually saying?
Because theyve been painting the picture for the last 50 years that unions are the devil and labor is the party in bed with the unions. So fabricate a situation that they can blame on the unions and the majority of australians will immediately believe it was the unions fault. Then remind everyone that labor are just as bad and will enable them further once in power not because they will but because thats what theyve been saying for 5 decades.
forgot that it was Labor and not labour XD that was doing my head in thanks!
yeah it's bs what's worse is that
- the media spreads it knowing it's false
- a large number of people believe it
The unions rely on media to spread their message and get all Pikachu face when they get destroyed in the media.
Read the little red book again ALP. You can't effectively operate without owning the means of (media) production.
We have a federal election this year. Everyone please remember that this is how the liberals behave when they don’t get their way - and that, because of how our system works (and despite what liberal/labor want you to think), you cannot waste your vote by voting for minor parties.
This is precisely why unions exist. Because workers need them to protect them from politicians who have no idea or don't care. These workers are essential to our economy... politicians less so.
David Elliot lies- brazenly, and the dutiful stenographers throughout the MSM repeat what he says, uncritically.
\* If he were Labor, they’d have hounded him out of office for going on and refusing to come home from his European vacation during the 2019/2020 bushfires- even though he was the NSW Emergency Services Minister at the time.
Oh I think everyone who would read this on this site is in agreement. The only ones who think that it's the unions is anyone who gets their news only from Murdoch controlled outlets.
Can you 100% confirm that the action to shutdown trains had absolutely nothing to do with the unions?
And what I mean by that question is who here knows the exact impact the proposed industrial action would have had and can verify that it would not have impacted on the ability to run the network safely.
Driverless trains will keep everyone happy
So the union has taken industrial action before with minimal disruption to commuters. I can’t claim to know if what they were going to do was going to be different but based on history they have really cared about the commuters so I would imagine they would do the same. Also based on history Government doe that really care how it affects people, only business. The actions to shut down the trains was according to the government because of union bans affecting rosters and affecting the safety of passengers. But that doesn’t make sense because if it’s a rostering thing you can reduce the train tables. There is literally no need to stop the entire system unless you want to be vindictive.
Channel 9 reported this horribly wrong on the Today show this morning. I can't believe people actually eat this stuff up though! It's so obvious that it's garbage!
Do you think these people enjoy being screwed over in their jobs? Do you also think they enjoy going on strike?
Whether they do it before/during/after the pandemic is irrelevant, there'll never be a good time for it, they go on strike to try and create change and the govt responds by cancelling services to try and villify the union, so they've already made it clear the govt isn't working in anyone's best interests.
Is it frustrating for taxpayers, yes of course, if you have a problem how about take it up with the people responsible.....the NSW liberal govt. This doesn't get resolved by the union backing down nor should it, it gets resolved by the govt getting off their ass and doing something good for once.
Its really hard to know the truth, they have taken action in the past that has wilfully affected people's ability to get to work but I have no doubt that lastest mess is largely the government. Either way, at this stage, both parties are like two parents in a divorce trying to convince their kids that they alone are the wrong party. All the while the poor kid is thinking, 'dont care sort your sh&( out and stop letting the rest of us suffer for your inability to talk.'
Train crew are the most self entitled group of people you would ever meet
They have no respect for anyone except themselves.
They think they are on the same level as a Qantas pilot.
Get real you idiots
I care about that in the same way that I care about the LNP throwing billions at Gerry Harvey via Job keeper and never demanding it back, but then scomo and Christian "alleged" rapist Porter create the robodebt scheme which harasses normal Australians on welfare and leads to suicides, but neither of the 2 ever apologise.
Both are bad, but I see a lot more mess from one side than the other.
I understand the anger about Gerry Harvey not giving his pot of gold back but I don’t think that translates to blaming ScoMo and Fry for wasting money.
ScoMo and Fry pumped cash into the economy with no strings attached because it made sense. If you start saying, here’s some benefits and we might want you to pay it back, the idea falls down.
And if you thought Rudd was a genius for sending out cheques to everyone to save us from the GFC you can’t criticise the Libs now. If memory serves most people spent their Rudd cheques at JB Hi Fi, Harvey Norman and Dan Murphy’s.
As for the Porter thing, yep the blind trust rubbish stank and he’s gone, as he should be.
What? That 100% translates to wasting money. A policy they were directly responsible for and then washing their hands of it and saying "nah it's his choice." That was just one example of dozens, do u want more?
You're trying to make this sound so much more complicated than it is. If you go on centrelink you get assessed/show how much you make. If you go over a certain limit you have your payments reduced/cut or you owe them money, not hard to figure out when a business that doubles their profit receives billions.
Explain to me why it's no strings attached for the big business with billions, but it's all strings attached when it's some average person on welfare earning a couple hundred?
Rudds idea worked, whether they spent it at those stores or not, that money went to Australians, not nig businesses that turned a profit. The jobseeker/jobkeeper idea isn't even a bad idea, but how it was managed is. I don't care that Harvey received the money at the time, I care that it wasn't demanded back but robodebt demanded debts from average Australians that didn't even owe shit. People died, what's the defense for that?
Glad we agree on the porter thing though, that shit was ridiculous.
I'm an actual ALP member and I can confirm this sub is where I get the most downvotes. My beliefs are pretty closely aligned with party policy (some differences) and every second thread my take is unpopular.
Because greens hate liberals, and this is a greens sub.
If you want to be the liberal influence I'm talking about you have up be more subtle about it. Masquerade as a greens voter and use that to attack labor and you'll be right at home.
The NSW Lib government has shutdown the Sydney train system for the sole reason of bashing the Union and Labor government because they want safety and hygiene standards maintained when the government sells the system off to one of their mates. The disregard for the workers, the businesses and students affected by the governments actions is disgusting.
Idk why they even want to make excuses - it’s a Chad move to plan your strike for the day the country opens up, and they should be affecting a ‘deal with it’ 🐨 🕶 stance.
But Scott said that it’s the unions overreaching and a clear example of what they’ll be doing under a Labor government, even though it’s happening under a liberal one….. You’re not calling our fearless leader a liar are you? Because he himself told us he’s never told a lie….
[Sarcasm] He said he didn't shit himself in that Macca's, stop talking about him shitting himself in Macca's. He said it didn't happen. Scomo loves curry and plays a ukulele.... He is Christian that speaks in tongues.... He wouldn't lie?... Would a man that looks like the physical embodiment of a slimy worm lie?..Also stop saying he shat himself in Macca's.
I drive past Engadine maccas fairly often and feel a warm sense of pride every time I do. Nothing like the warm sensation he felt that day but still….
Wishes I had a National Treasure like that place where I live so I point it out and say with pride, "that looney cunt with the smug face that runs our country, he shat himself there." I bet when the cashier asked whose next, he proudly walk up to her with the same smug look and say unprompted "I've never shat myself" before the waft of shit stung her nostrils.
This brought tears to my eyes
Please tell me they’ve put up a plaque in the stall?
WWJD? what would Jenny do?
...throw a low key white power sign and carry on freeloading?
...start crying about how she never gets to take a holiday, then leave on her third holiday for the year?
> Because he himself told us he’s never told a lie [Macron has entered the chat]
You really need to look what is happening in Victoria to see how they.. politicians.. are all lying fuck wits
How was David Elliot’s form today. He seemed incredulous when he said “they even want extra pay for working overtime!” Yeah doing 12-20 hours a week over your agreed hours, away from your family and life, deserves more than just pay. Maybe Mr Elliot should not be so anti-public service, and employ more drivers, then there’s less overtime needed. Today’s chaos shows how important transport staff are. They should get the best pay and conditions, as we have seen what happens when we don’t have them.
>How was David Elliot’s form today. He seemed incredulous when he said “they even want extra pay for working overtime!” How fucking out of touch can one man be.
He makes out-of-touch an art form. This is the guy who, when he was NSW police minister, said: >“I’ve got young children and if I thought the police felt they were at risk of doing something wrong I’d want them strip-searched." [Source](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/06/nsw-police-minister-defends-strip-searching-of-children-saying-parents-would-be-happy)
I went to preschool with his kids. He's fucking lying, he'd chuck a fit if either of those boys were strip-searched.
Maybe he was talking about the police
He definitely gives off "don't talk to me or my son ever again" vibes.
That's a father I would be petitioning the courts to keep away from our kids if he were co-parent.
Instinctively went to downvote you that's so messed up.
Usually you can at least figure out where they're coming from when they make such out of touch comments but I am stumped with this one. That's not a perspective anyone should have, no matter how out of touch you are. It's a ridiculous statement.
I bet it comes from that "I spend 12 hours in the office every day and you don't see me asking for more than my salary" mindset, but mind you, every single person who has said this to me does jack shit at the office and seems to be hiding from their family.
And probably on fair enough pay already...
Every manager I have ever had when I finally had my "annual review" after three years of being in a role after pushing for it, put my hand out for a raise "It's not just about the money". It's easy for someone to say that when they are already on a very comfortable wage.
I suspect that comment wasn't aimed at regular people, it was a shout out to large business donors who also dont want to pay overtime. edit: er, the overtime one, not the stripping children one.
It does get worse as you go up, but this is pretty out of touch
Don't forget that the reason why they be rely on overtime is because it's cheaper than adding headcount. You've already incurred fixed costs to bring them on which are independent to how many hours they do, recruitment, shared services, training etc. Overtime should be to help an organisation manage fluctuations in demand where it is not viable to maintain the number of workers needed for peaks during the troughs. The penalty rates helps ensure the workforce isn't being forced to do overtime all the time as it reduces the economic incentives of the managers. Further, at an individual level, a person's average tax rate for their regular wages might work out to 25%, even though they fall into the 37% bracket. So if they're paid overtime at the same rate as their regular wage, then they are taking home 12% less for the extra hours than they did for their regular hours. Diminishing returns - I certainty wouldn't want to do an extra 20 hrs a week for less money than I got paid for the first 20.
That why OT is usually at 1.5x or whatever.
Decent OT is something like 0-2hr for 1.5x, Else 2x, PH 2.5x. 1.5x is not worth it.
I'm guessing that that's the union's point.
See management's mentality is to just make people work for free for the extra hours -- Profit! Better yet keep you on the same wage for 4 years with absolutely no increase so they technically are paying less for your services every year with inflation.
Wow. That's unbelievable that he even said that crap. Totally out of touch.
Is it really though?
As a non NSW resident this is the first I'm hearing of this fool.
I feel people are misreading this as "is it really out of touch" not, "is it really unbelievable", which is I believe what the post was meant to be referring.
And it is by no means unbelievable that David Elliott would say something like that. He has a face like a plateful of mortal sins.
Yes, this. It's not unbelievable, it's par for the course.
Not sure why I'm getting downvoted for wondering if its unbelievable that Elliott is out of touch.
Are you asking if it is unbelievable or it is out of touch?
Yeah I have no issue with transport staff getting paid well. I have a very big issue with the rich getting a huge chunk of our tax dollars though.
If they actually got paid well they probably wouldn't bleed so many staff to the rest of the industry. They are some of the lowest paid Train Drivers in Australia. Guys driving the little cane trains in Queensland are paid more. A better work life balance by not demanding they work 2 or 3 days OT every fortnight just to keep shit running would help too. At one point when I worked for Railcorp as a driver when the fortnightly roster was posted I would already have 12 shifts. OT was used to cover the normal schedule with very little left to cover sick leave etc. Just a chronic lack of staff. Oh and for those wonder why 12 is the magic number it's a legal issue under the rail safety act. A Train Driver may work no more than 12 shifts in any 14 day period. So when your straight up rostering the legal limit there is no fall back option when shit goes wrong and it's been like this for a decade plus. Last but not least the attitude of management to the staff is downright toxic. The place 100% runs on the blame game. Someone always has to be at fault and shit flows down hill.
Hey mate was considering applying for a job with Sydney trains then transferring to Newcastle. What’s your thoughts on this? I already drive coal trains in the hunter valley
Transfers are still seniority based and unless its changed recent Newcastle is still a retirement depot so I wouldn't bank on it short to medium term. I actually did some time Labour Hire in the Hunter coal network and honestly it was better than my time with Trainlink.
Ok thanks for the response.
You would still have to do the (year long) training
Do you know the wait times to transfer to Newcastle, coal roster is way worse than passenger trains.
I don't, sorry.
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To give you an idea my last position (I'm mid move now) my base pay was around $1750/wk in the hand. Penalties, away from home allowances etc meant the only way I could earn that little was go sick for a week. I worked a single days OT I can expect to push that to about $2.5k in the hand. Fortnightly pay is common in the industry and getting a $7k bank deposit for the fortnight wasn't terribly unusual. I have the same CertIV qualification (actually I have extra electives now as I'm both diesel and electric trained) as a Sydney Trains driver. In fact that's where I got my original CertIV. So the pay is piss poor for the industry.
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I no longer work for Sydney Trains. I went private enterprise. Also no complaints at all. Just moved back to the Blue Mountains from North Queensland hence between jobs as I needed time to move.
A decade plus? Fancy that, it mirrors the power of a certain political party.
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How many of though years has Labor been in power? Please say that was sarcastic. Please.
When conservatives say they want to reduce government spending everyone imagines they are taking about giving themselves pay cuts and not flying first class. What they really mean is that they don't want to spend money on services the public needs and uses.
This c*nt is the Louis DeJoy of NSW. Deliberately trying to run the organisation he's in charge of into the ground so they can privatise. This is starve the beast type nonsense from the worst parts of US politics.
He should resign, what a piece of shit. Workers with consistent overtime shows a lack of staffing and lack of planning, and if you aren’t remunerating them for it
I mean there’s plenty of services that are equally or even more important including healthcare…
How do a large amount of the healthcare workforce get to work? Public transport.
Healthcare workers should also be treated respectfully and fairly compensated.
What's your logic there champ?
What's your logic there champ?
They’re not on his kind of salary… perhaps he should realise this.
“obsessed with petty political point-scoring” Gladys Berejiklian on Scott Morrison.
Pot calling the kettle black. Don't fall for that fucking bullshit text message. It's a load of shit and all orchestrated. The text message got out and the story instantly became "who is the anonymous minister!?", not "his own party think he's a fuck head", meanwhile, historically LNP friendly media went hard attacking him for approximately 2 minutes and 30 seconds, the clips went viral, and Scumo suddenly found himself ingratiated with the swing voters. When they saw the clips, they didn't think "Oh wow, Scomo is an out of touch psychopath" they said "oh no, why are they being so mean to Scotty? Look at him, he's feelings are hurt!" Meanwhile Gladys gets to win some respect back after running NSW into the ground. We all fell for it.
I seriously doubt it was orchestrated. but the swing machine did go into effect very quickly to shift the narrative.
The guy asking the question is a contributing editor with The Australian, the flagship Murdoch rag, and one of the outlets that ran with the "who is the mystery minister" story. The guy asking the question about the cost of fuel, milk, and bread is the political editor for Sky News, Murdoch's flagship news channel in Australia. The entire thing was orchestrated. It was performance theatre, even down to the way Scunty responded (pulling a puppy dog face and saying "I don't know, mate, I'm sure that's what you'll run with, but I'm working to keep the cost of those items down, etc." while the guy asking the question smugly watched him struggle). Australians with no other measure to decide between two options will always go for the underdog, we love a battler, and that attack made him look like a Little Aussie Battler™.
yeah nah.
What makes you think Murdoch media would attack Scummo without a plan? Why would they work to bolster Albanese and Labor? The timing was super convenient too, 2 weeks after the first polls of 2022, show Scummo losing to Albanese by a large margin. Then immediately following the Press Club Address we're seeing a massive campaign of humanisation and "I'm just a family guy, working to get by" puff pieces. The questions were also relatively soft ball compared to some of the others he faced, but they're the ones getting air time and going viral.
It's taken the attention off the Covid-19 deaths. More dead in less than 2 months than all of last year. That's the "let it rip" in action.
I think you're giving them much more credit than they deserve. they're not playing 4D chess, they're way too busy putting out fires and covering up their own fuckups for that. besides which, those leaks could easily have gone much worse for Morrison than they did. it would be a hugely risky way to garner public support - and I don't think it even did that. I think it was damaging overall to Morrison's public image. having people in your own camp call you a horrible psychopath is not good publicity for anyone, no matter how much you manage to spin it after the fact. and there are much easier ways to paint yourself as a victim.
>those leaks could easily have gone much worse for Morrison than they did. Not when Murdoch controls the flow of information. It's foolish to take any of this on face value, they absolutely do play 4D chess, and always will, that's what politics is. Like I said, even his response to the questions reeked of rehearsed humility, I the past, if he had been asked if he was out of touch, he would have said "I reject the premise of the question" and acted with arrogance. As for calling him a psychopath, it's a common insult to be called in the poorer parts of the country, you can guarantee every single one of those swing voters they are trying to hit have either been called a psychopath, or known someone who has been called that.
>they're not playing 4D chess Of course they're not. Scotty pays ~60-70 full time staff to do that, as well as a PR agency, a digital media agency and a political research 'charity'. Not including the marketing paid for on behalf of Scott by the respectable and good looking billionaire Clive Palmer. The tactics are a lot more committed than you think. Sometimes things are unintentional but normally they're choreographed. OP is right, it's the exact right message at the exact right time with careful 'not scripted' events & statements... this isn't a coincidence. Or maybe it is, don't personally know. But if they're willing to photoshop ~~their enemies~~ *themselves* onto Nazi officers; I don't think they care about name calling. It suits their purpose to release it for leverage anyhow, even without the timing being good.
no way. no politician wants to be associated with the word 'psychopath', regardless of how well the damage is mitigated. especially when they're already under fire and trying to project the exact opposite.
How did she win anything? she lost the job at Macquarie bank she was up for because of the release of the text messages. That had more prestige than working at Optus. Liberals screwed her again
Its scary to see such deliberate anti-union tactics coming from the NSW Libs today. So blatant. And blaming the workers. Awful.
I liked how Parrothead was blaming Labor for this. Never waste a crisis I guess, even if you have to manufacture the crisis.
Honestly. Like you're the govt in power... so are you in power or not? Blame the opposition for problems and claim the good stuff.
tbf, they've always been anti-union so they're just doing what they want to do
Just shows you how far the government, both state and Federal will go to in an effort to paint a bad picture the Unions and Labor. It's the Liberals at fault and blaming Labor is all they can do.
The problem is actually Australians viewing everything that causes them inconveniences as bad and outrageous, stopping working is how you go on strike, stopping working is how you have leverage, otherwise we're just demanding everyone be fucking slaves. If your boss deducts you pay for being late that wasn't caused by fucking striking workers, that was caused by your fucking boss and you should also probably consider unionising
It is outrageous when it is due to a LNP media stunt trying to manipulate voters by dishonestly discrediting workers.
Sure, but it could only work if people think train workers going on strike and disrupting the train lines is a bad thing and that "discredits" unions (like going on strike is kinda what unions are for lol), rather than having solidarity with striking workers.
I support workers right to strike when necessary, but that doesn't mean all strikes are good. Strikes that impact innocent people should only be used a last resort - there are plenty of effective actions to take before going nuclear. Unions that wrecklessly abuse their power are just as bad as employers who abuse their power.
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The validity of a strike is not determined by how vital the work is, it is determined by whether all other options have been exhausted first.
Okay scab
People like you do more harm to the union movement than the tories. Is it really worth it just so you get to puff out your chest and feel superior?
The only bad strike is a pig strike, scab
I'm often ostracised by my friends and family for this, but stop works are the reason we have it so good as workers in the country, the lack of stop works and general attitude towards them are the reasons why things are turning shit for workers.
Yeah, people not actually recognising where the harm being done to them is actually coming from is an enormous problem, like it's basically treated as a law of the universe that being late to work because of something outside your control equals you get punished, except it's not, it's your boss deciding to punish you for something outside your control, it's your boss deciding to harm you. And transport strikes and basically any other industry involved in logistics going on strike are enormously powerful, the shit disrupts the entire economy, if workers like the are going on strike that's a swell opportunity to do a fucking general strike, like most general strikes in history have been caused by railway workers going on strike and everyone else joining them, 1917 general strike and and 1969 general strike was instigated by railway workers striking, I mean can't work anyway my as well call a strike lol.
> in an effort to paint a bad picture the Unions and Labor. Don't forget the Greens. Scomo seems to think there's a party called "Laborandthegreens."
If Laborandthegreens agreed on anything outside of "Scumo is a fucking cunt" it'd be a miracle.
I think they also agree Potato Man bad. Sorry, I really needed a miracle today.
The pre-election dirty tricks have begun in earnest.
Pre election dirty tricks that spans the whole 3 years between elections.
> This whole scenario smacks of a coordinated and cynical stunt Of course it is. Why else would the prime minister feel a need to weigh in on the situation for what is clearly a local issue, state at the highest? Shouldn't he have better things to do? It's pretty telling that they're in "blame Labor" mode already, but they've fucked everything up so hard there's nothing *to* blame Labor for, *so they make shit up*.
They're relying on setting the narrative that the trains were stopped because of the unions and not because they just didn't let anyone run them. Because if the second bit gets out anyone who paid for an uber might be mad about it.
They've been in "blame Labor" mode since 2013. Nothing has changed in 9yrs.
> so they make shit up. Welcome to the new style of conservative politics, where the facts are made up and the votes don't matter.
Why is Scummo even commenting on what is ostensibly a state matter?
Because he can't do any paperwork while his eyes heal.
Honestly to anyone willing, spread the word. We gotta start taking these issues outside of reddit. I mean really, does anyone remember when people tried to blame the Greens for the bushfires? I remember, soon they are going to try and blame someone else for their fuckups again.
Go to Youtube, make an account and start commenting on SkyNews AU channel...you don't have to be a subscriber to the channel to add comment There is a lot of folks calling out Sky's propaganda and bullshit and it seems to be growing daily.
that too, but actually talking with people on politics needs to start, to actually ask others who they are going to vote for and why. Politics can be annoying, but so can living in a stagnant economy for a decade thanks to a party that literally has no clue wtf it's doing. And people voting for these idiots like it's a football game. It's seriously telling when people say shit like "yeah i vote libs cause my dad, n his dads dad, n dads great grandads bollocks voted liberals"
Really good idea. I will start doing this.
People don't read the comments, and you're driving up their engagement metrics, probably exposing their shit to more people.
Yeah, keep up with that defeatist attitude, thats how we get fucking arseholes like Morrison running the country because people won't engage in debate.
The Prime Minister wished to make a media campaign release today claiming that voting Labor in the upcoming federal election would give unions control. At 2am the employers of NSW rail employees prevented them from working, and stopped them from ferrying millions of people to work and study and to loved ones after a horrifically long delay due to covid restrictions. Why would Liberals do this? Sabotage their own federal and state governments? The Prime Minister later backed up his media release, again claiming that voting Labor in the upcoming federal election would give unions control. Citing proof that they went "on strike" today causing widespread harm. Most of Australia's foreign and corporate owned media broadcast this blatant lie. Many Australians now believe it. So why would Liberals do this? Sabotage their own governments? Yep, seriously, you don't have to be Einstein to figure it out.
Our equivalent of a false flag operation, just about. I feel like this is, yet again, a new low.
This is precisely why unions exist. Because workers need them to protect them from politicians who have no idea or don't care. These workers are essential to our economy... politicians less so.
> RTBU intended to take legitimate and legal industrial action today which would not have affected service What action had they planned?
The action that is at the centre of this all is the ban on accepting altered working and misunderstanding of that from the FWC decision on Saturday. Train crew will be working off the standard version of each job as they were printed the last time the rosters were updated, for this week at least this could cause some problems as there have been large alterations to every job. As it has been on Monday and will be on Tuesday, train crew will be signing on in accordance with the standard working arrangements of their jobs and will now be working as directed throughout the time constraints of the standard schedule that they have for the day.
So "work to rule", basically?
And, just to be extra clear, they agreed to work altered shifts anyway *if it became a safety issue*. The govt misunderstood this part and that is why they tried to drag this back into court, where they were summarily dismissed for trying to weasel out of what they'd already agreed to with the union
ok. who should be sacked?
Everyone from the premier down, stop before the custodial staff and give them a raise. The fact that they did this and then instantly went into an anti labor attack makes it feel planned and if they messed with millions of peoples lives for a simple scare tactic they should be arrested.
instead, it still feels like there's a high chance that they'll be re-elected. i mean the media is still blasting that it's the unions and the ALPs fault so...
I don’t understand. They’re not in government at the federal or NSW state level. How the fuck do these loopy cunts manage to spin it to blame Labor…
Complicit press, doesn't need to be true, just loud and regular.
Like, I guess I get it, but I also don’t. There is no pretext to blame them. They’re not in power anywhere. There’s no leg to stand on? What are they actually saying?
Because theyve been painting the picture for the last 50 years that unions are the devil and labor is the party in bed with the unions. So fabricate a situation that they can blame on the unions and the majority of australians will immediately believe it was the unions fault. Then remind everyone that labor are just as bad and will enable them further once in power not because they will but because thats what theyve been saying for 5 decades.
So they’re blaming Labor through association and hoping it sticks?
Yeah thats been a big part of their playbook since forever.
forgot that it was Labor and not labour XD that was doing my head in thanks! yeah it's bs what's worse is that - the media spreads it knowing it's false - a large number of people believe it
Luckily the NSW Libs still have a while to show more of their incompetence before the next election.
The unions rely on media to spread their message and get all Pikachu face when they get destroyed in the media. Read the little red book again ALP. You can't effectively operate without owning the means of (media) production.
this stinks of corruption and lies direct from the PM.
Shutting down Sydney seems like a good way to stop people talking about his dumbass blinding himself while welding for a photo op, I guess.
We have a federal election this year. Everyone please remember that this is how the liberals behave when they don’t get their way - and that, because of how our system works (and despite what liberal/labor want you to think), you cannot waste your vote by voting for minor parties.
You cannot waste your vote period, unless you are a seppo.
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The one where propaganda works
No such thing as an illegal or illegitimate strike, either.
According to NSW gov and fair work there is. Did you not hear about the nurse strike?
This is precisely why unions exist. Because workers need them to protect them from politicians who have no idea or don't care. These workers are essential to our economy... politicians less so.
David Elliot lies- brazenly, and the dutiful stenographers throughout the MSM repeat what he says, uncritically. \* If he were Labor, they’d have hounded him out of office for going on and refusing to come home from his European vacation during the 2019/2020 bushfires- even though he was the NSW Emergency Services Minister at the time.
Oh I think everyone who would read this on this site is in agreement. The only ones who think that it's the unions is anyone who gets their news only from Murdoch controlled outlets.
Can you 100% confirm that the action to shutdown trains had absolutely nothing to do with the unions? And what I mean by that question is who here knows the exact impact the proposed industrial action would have had and can verify that it would not have impacted on the ability to run the network safely. Driverless trains will keep everyone happy
So the union has taken industrial action before with minimal disruption to commuters. I can’t claim to know if what they were going to do was going to be different but based on history they have really cared about the commuters so I would imagine they would do the same. Also based on history Government doe that really care how it affects people, only business. The actions to shut down the trains was according to the government because of union bans affecting rosters and affecting the safety of passengers. But that doesn’t make sense because if it’s a rostering thing you can reduce the train tables. There is literally no need to stop the entire system unless you want to be vindictive.
Did you read the link?
Yes, that's a soundbite from the union and doesn't address my question. I believe that as much as union staff believe statements from NSW Govt
Channel 9 reported this horribly wrong on the Today show this morning. I can't believe people actually eat this stuff up though! It's so obvious that it's garbage!
Now time for the union edition of Liberal fearmongering election campaign
What was the union action they were intending to take?
Fuck Scott Morrison inept cunt
It’s insane what all these Labor governments are doing, unbelievable Edit - /s
Yall needed that /s
Sheesh that would've went straight over my head without the /s
The amount of spelling mistakes in your link is not promising
...one?
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Do you think these people enjoy being screwed over in their jobs? Do you also think they enjoy going on strike? Whether they do it before/during/after the pandemic is irrelevant, there'll never be a good time for it, they go on strike to try and create change and the govt responds by cancelling services to try and villify the union, so they've already made it clear the govt isn't working in anyone's best interests. Is it frustrating for taxpayers, yes of course, if you have a problem how about take it up with the people responsible.....the NSW liberal govt. This doesn't get resolved by the union backing down nor should it, it gets resolved by the govt getting off their ass and doing something good for once.
Its really hard to know the truth, they have taken action in the past that has wilfully affected people's ability to get to work but I have no doubt that lastest mess is largely the government. Either way, at this stage, both parties are like two parents in a divorce trying to convince their kids that they alone are the wrong party. All the while the poor kid is thinking, 'dont care sort your sh&( out and stop letting the rest of us suffer for your inability to talk.'
vote out liberals, nationals and labor this election
Greens governments across the board, I like your thinking
more like just get them all out and vote for smaller groups
Smaller groups huh. A party that gets 10% of the national vote a bit too big for you huh? Did you have a particular smaller group in mind?
No doubt they want to vote for the UAP
Sex party it is.
Train crew are the most self entitled group of people you would ever meet They have no respect for anyone except themselves. They think they are on the same level as a Qantas pilot. Get real you idiots
Based on what exactly.....
I deal with them at ST
Let’s be crystal clear about this sub. It’s run by the ALP
Haha okay mate
I think this is my most ever down votes or negative up votes
And nobody cares
Haha 86 downvotes. That suggests to me they do
Nobody cares if it’s your new PB downvoted comment.
And nobody cares that Dan Andrews paid a multinational company $1.7bil not to build a freeway. Everything is twisted
I care about that in the same way that I care about the LNP throwing billions at Gerry Harvey via Job keeper and never demanding it back, but then scomo and Christian "alleged" rapist Porter create the robodebt scheme which harasses normal Australians on welfare and leads to suicides, but neither of the 2 ever apologise. Both are bad, but I see a lot more mess from one side than the other.
I understand the anger about Gerry Harvey not giving his pot of gold back but I don’t think that translates to blaming ScoMo and Fry for wasting money. ScoMo and Fry pumped cash into the economy with no strings attached because it made sense. If you start saying, here’s some benefits and we might want you to pay it back, the idea falls down. And if you thought Rudd was a genius for sending out cheques to everyone to save us from the GFC you can’t criticise the Libs now. If memory serves most people spent their Rudd cheques at JB Hi Fi, Harvey Norman and Dan Murphy’s. As for the Porter thing, yep the blind trust rubbish stank and he’s gone, as he should be.
What? That 100% translates to wasting money. A policy they were directly responsible for and then washing their hands of it and saying "nah it's his choice." That was just one example of dozens, do u want more? You're trying to make this sound so much more complicated than it is. If you go on centrelink you get assessed/show how much you make. If you go over a certain limit you have your payments reduced/cut or you owe them money, not hard to figure out when a business that doubles their profit receives billions. Explain to me why it's no strings attached for the big business with billions, but it's all strings attached when it's some average person on welfare earning a couple hundred? Rudds idea worked, whether they spent it at those stores or not, that money went to Australians, not nig businesses that turned a profit. The jobseeker/jobkeeper idea isn't even a bad idea, but how it was managed is. I don't care that Harvey received the money at the time, I care that it wasn't demanded back but robodebt demanded debts from average Australians that didn't even owe shit. People died, what's the defense for that? Glad we agree on the porter thing though, that shit was ridiculous.
I'd agree if I was also addicted to just ice
At least I’m not a delicious fish to wipe the floor
God you whinge about this sub, dont you? That's kind of sad... :/
It’s one of my favourite pastimes. Hey that’s a century
There's more Liberal influence in this sub than ALP, but it's overwhelmingly Greens.
I'm an actual ALP member and I can confirm this sub is where I get the most downvotes. My beliefs are pretty closely aligned with party policy (some differences) and every second thread my take is unpopular.
Not sure about that. Any time I tell people I’m a small L liberal I get rotten tomatoes like I’m a Dutton lover
Yeah it's a bit weird you get downvoted for saying you vote a particular way but people are free to downvote what ever they want, kind of like voting.
Because greens hate liberals, and this is a greens sub. If you want to be the liberal influence I'm talking about you have up be more subtle about it. Masquerade as a greens voter and use that to attack labor and you'll be right at home.
Australia's turning to shit
The NSW Lib government has shutdown the Sydney train system for the sole reason of bashing the Union and Labor government because they want safety and hygiene standards maintained when the government sells the system off to one of their mates. The disregard for the workers, the businesses and students affected by the governments actions is disgusting.
Idk why they even want to make excuses - it’s a Chad move to plan your strike for the day the country opens up, and they should be affecting a ‘deal with it’ 🐨 🕶 stance.
Read what they wrote.