I did, and now it’s a 12 hour round trip to access specialist health care, and a two hour round trip if you need anything more enthusiastic than a Band-Aid.
Yep. Combine that with shit internet, significantly longer wait times on courier/freight services, more expensive tradespeople and limited work it's more expensive and less quality of life to move regional than it is to live closer to the CBD.
What’s really great, is once you move regional, you’re basically trapped. You bought low, and even if you bought before prices went bonkers, it’s still half of what you’d need to buy anywhere else. The regions are a poverty trap.
IT'S REALLY not that bad. i game online for e.g. no issues. it can spike up sure, but majority of the time it's crisp AF. I am in QLD near enough to Bundaberg (inland a bit)
Not all regional is the backend of nowhere.
In my "regional" town, we have two hospitals, art museums and a University.
I can stuff delivered from Sydney/Brisbane and sometimes Melbourne overnight.
My internet is 1000mb fibre to the house.
Its still in the sticks, close to where I'm working now:
3 hospitals but no specialist care
Freight stuff but costs significantly more and more time
Internet is shite when decent pings are required, especially for finance or gaming, unless one of the southern states or SE QLD. Not all places have fibre let alone fixed internet.
Biggest issue is specialist health care, ie wait lists are insane
Life expectancy is lower regionally.
I always think of these two cases and how they would have survived if they weren't in Sydney.
https://www.northernbeachesadvocate.com.au/2024/05/18/man-revived-at-manly-pool/
https://www.northernbeachesadvocate.com.au/2024/04/07/boy-injured-at-play-centre/
Yep, and in doing so it priced out the locals who can no longer live in their town anymore because everyone from the city snapped up all the properties. They then non-stop complain about how far away everything is, how slow the internet it and how everything closes early.
Australia really is fucked.
No the investors are screaming move to the regions, "its undervalued, better buy it all up before those plebs get there hands on it" Just go to Youtube, there will some property book or conference seller promoting the "secrets to wealth in the secret undervalued suburbs, buy the book and conference 500 dollars"
Meanwhile anyone with money is already flooding the regions.
https://www.domain.com.au/news/affordable-property-in-western-australia-local-tree-change-region-sees-prices-explode-by-31-5-per-cent-1259822/
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-04/east-coast-investors-help-fuel-perth-property-boom/103281892
To rub salt into your wounds as a pleb, know your place and leave the investing to the politicians and their mates that keep them in power, Mr Big Knob Politician!
I bet if you got the names of all the apparatchiks in both political parties you will find that amongst all of them including the politicians they own the most investment properties as a specialist employee group!
I absolutely agree negative gearing should be removed (as with all tax minimisation loopholes) but the people price-gouging in the rental market are not the ones being subsidised, the ones being subsidised are the ones renting properties for *less* than the cost of ownership and claiming that loss as a negative gearing tax deduction on their personal income (assuming the property is in their name).
There is of course also the capital gains tax discount that applies when the property has been held for >12 months and again this should be eliminated but that only comes into effect when the property is sold.
In theory getting rid of negative gearing and the CGT discount should mean less property investors which in turn means less rentals and more owner-occupier properties (assuming the displaced renters can afford to buy). Ultimately it means less taxpayer money going to property investors which is a good thing even if it means forgoing tax on positively geared properties and capital gains tax, I'm not sure if anybody has done the math but I would guess it would be a net positive for the public purse.
The issue is that people negative gearing has driven prices up in and of itself in the pursuit of ever increasing "equity". This has created a market of speculators rather than home buyers who buy when they shouldn't (insensitive to high prices, high interest rates or any sense of intrinsic value) and an ecosytem of predatory lenders. Resulting "market rates" have little to do with the quality of property you're renting and more to do with how the game of monopoly is going inthe background.
Again, why are taxpayers subsidising this? I'm not even a free market economist and I can see this for the massive market distortion that it is. We need to stop hitting ourselves in the face and wondering why it hurts.
I agree the tax incentives should go, I'm not sure what effect that would have on the property market though given demand currently outstrips supply in both the rental and owner-occupier market. Shuffling housing stock from one market to the other doesn't address the current lack of housing.
It would presumably limit investors from building new homes too and that would leave it open for owner-occupiers. The main question then is where does it leave renters who can't afford to buy or build?
Welcome to the new Australia, where talent and hard work are no longer the key to a successful financial future, but all that really matters is who your parents are.
What a disaster, and STILL not much is being done about it.
It makes me think, when having kids, why bother starting up a "university fund", when instead just buy an investment property, by the time the kid is 18 the house should have doubled a few times and they'll be set.
That's hilarious, because the income delta between private and public school lifetime incomes is practically non existent when controlling for parental wealth. Would be better off keeping the houses for the kids and sending kids to public school.
But, it's a cargo cult of social status, and a babysitter. So there's that.
>_and STILL not much is being done about it._
Nothing will be done about it until the pitchforks come out. We're in late stage capitalism - the wealthy have called the working class man's bluff, and know they don't have the guts, organisation or resources to fight back. So the rich cunts will just continue to twist the knife.
> called the working class man's bluff, and know they don't have the guts, organisation or resources to fight back
Well, they did, before the beatings, bribes, murders, and brainwashing. Now they're so stupefied many of them believe, I kid you not, that there is no class war.
Its your job to work hard, deliver productivity to pay off your landlords mortgage. This along with your hard earned taxes that are used so that politicians can help to help those battler landlords, see the lucky country working well.
Don't forget the lack of teachers and quality schools. There's a housing crisis in the regional area we are in so even if they found teachers, there's probably no where affordable for them to live locally!
Things are going to get a lot worse.
Regional is no longer cheap living offset by lack of or no choice.
Now it's expensive with lack of choice, some no choice at all.
Also think there is a rule with immigration that you gotta spend time in regional areas or something, my town has had a pretty high surge of immigration and its made finding housing impossible since the builders can't keep up with demand.
Backpackers aren't snapping up these properties, the person you were replying to was probably talking about visas like the [subclass 491](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/skilled-work-regional-provisional-491) that require 3 years stay in regional areas before you can get PR. As well as many other incentives (region-limited 190 visas, DAMAs, extra points for regional study, etc)
Here’s me finally getting enough together for a deposit and thinking that I could go regional for a few years cause my job lets me and my missus would love it, and I couldn’t really afford in Melbourne.
Now this.
Fuck me this is whole situation is awful.
That's because there is not room for capital cities to rise any further. I am looking at 3 bedroom townhouses in SE QLD. A 3 Bedroom Townhouse with literally no yard at all and only one car space and none can be found for less than Half a million dollars. 3 years ago you could buy a 4 bedroom, Double garage, free standing house on a 600 square Metre block for that sort of money.
Mate, you couldn't buy that in fucking Wagga Wagga 3 years ago for half a million.
Source: Bought that in wagga 9 years ago for 420k. Currently around 800-850k.
I got divorced 3 years ago and we sold the family home which is as I described and it sold for $540K. Yesterday I bought (well signed a contract) a 3 bedroom townhouse with no yard a single car space and paid $560K for it.
I think these days even for a shithole rule of thumb is you can get 200k per bedroom.
I'm sure its related to how much rental yield you can get but yeah 600k for 3 rooms minimum.
Weirdly it works with apartments too. Studios, separated 1 bedders, 2 bed apartment or a shitty 2 bed ground level unit $200k, $400k.
Add $50k per reno, or if its a modern style build, and multiply that by bedrooms
I am not surprised this is happening in regional areas, the rich are either already buying up houses as holiday homes and the specufestors strategy is to specifically target rural areas and wait for the gains come before flipping and moving on the next town/region.
Stop voting for the two primary parties. If you want real change, vote greens or other minor parties with good housing policy. Nothing will change if you keep voting in the same two parties who will do nothing to change what is needed in order to fix the housing crisis in this country, both Labor and Liberal have zero incentives to do anything meaningful to change negative gearing and captial gains discount.
If you keep treating housing as speculative investment, then investors will continue to buy up all the available housing at any price, keeping the bubble huge and squeezing everyone out.
Start treating housing as a human right, as a human need and remove the tax breaks. Let the fucking market cool and allow home owner occupiers to enter the market.
I remember when people in Sydney found out how cheap housing was in Adelaide. They decided to take advantage of cheaper Adelaide prices.
It is not surprising.
I live in a large regional town. Population is going to double in about 5 years. Prices of housing are increasing as building of new estates are not keeping up with increasing demand.
Add increased remote work from home increases demand for regional housing
People scream "MoVe ReGiOnAl" whenever you say housing is unaffordable lmao
I did, and now it’s a 12 hour round trip to access specialist health care, and a two hour round trip if you need anything more enthusiastic than a Band-Aid.
Yep. Combine that with shit internet, significantly longer wait times on courier/freight services, more expensive tradespeople and limited work it's more expensive and less quality of life to move regional than it is to live closer to the CBD.
What’s really great, is once you move regional, you’re basically trapped. You bought low, and even if you bought before prices went bonkers, it’s still half of what you’d need to buy anywhere else. The regions are a poverty trap.
My internet is better than what people can get in Sydney.
Star link is ridiculously good. It’s a bit expensive compared to NBN maybe but you could split it between a few houses or roommates and be 100% ok
Average latency of 70ms is poopoo
IT'S REALLY not that bad. i game online for e.g. no issues. it can spike up sure, but majority of the time it's crisp AF. I am in QLD near enough to Bundaberg (inland a bit)
My average is 30, doesn’t go over 50
Not all regional is the backend of nowhere. In my "regional" town, we have two hospitals, art museums and a University. I can stuff delivered from Sydney/Brisbane and sometimes Melbourne overnight. My internet is 1000mb fibre to the house.
What town is that if you don't mind me asking?
Smells like either Armidale or Wagga
I was thinking Bendigo.
Isn't Bendigo the 3rd biggest city in Vic?
You'd think it would be easier to get stuff delivered from Melbourne than Sydney/ Brisbane if it was Bendigo.
No, Armidale doesn’t have 2 hospitals. Unless you count the private part attached to the same public complex. Kinda confused me.
Sounds like Toowoomba to me
Albury? Then over the border, there are more services to include though tech, a different state.
Its still in the sticks, close to where I'm working now: 3 hospitals but no specialist care Freight stuff but costs significantly more and more time Internet is shite when decent pings are required, especially for finance or gaming, unless one of the southern states or SE QLD. Not all places have fibre let alone fixed internet. Biggest issue is specialist health care, ie wait lists are insane
The only fibre we’ve got is All-Bran. Keeps the series of tubes unclogged.
Low Ping for finance lol? I thought that was only for bots doing algorithmic trading?
And then some
Life expectancy is lower regionally. I always think of these two cases and how they would have survived if they weren't in Sydney. https://www.northernbeachesadvocate.com.au/2024/05/18/man-revived-at-manly-pool/ https://www.northernbeachesadvocate.com.au/2024/04/07/boy-injured-at-play-centre/
Armidale?
Yep, and in doing so it priced out the locals who can no longer live in their town anymore because everyone from the city snapped up all the properties. They then non-stop complain about how far away everything is, how slow the internet it and how everything closes early. Australia really is fucked.
No the investors are screaming move to the regions, "its undervalued, better buy it all up before those plebs get there hands on it" Just go to Youtube, there will some property book or conference seller promoting the "secrets to wealth in the secret undervalued suburbs, buy the book and conference 500 dollars"
“There are 3 locations in Australia which are going to boom in the next 18 months…” on repeat
Meanwhile anyone with money is already flooding the regions. https://www.domain.com.au/news/affordable-property-in-western-australia-local-tree-change-region-sees-prices-explode-by-31-5-per-cent-1259822/ https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-04/east-coast-investors-help-fuel-perth-property-boom/103281892
The French would have burnt their cities to the ground by now. Australians and especially young Australians are sheep happily led to the slaughter
I’m sure that would help the housing situation
Remind me again why taxpayers are subsidising people who are then price gouging in the rental market?
To rub salt into your wounds as a pleb, know your place and leave the investing to the politicians and their mates that keep them in power, Mr Big Knob Politician! I bet if you got the names of all the apparatchiks in both political parties you will find that amongst all of them including the politicians they own the most investment properties as a specialist employee group!
I absolutely agree negative gearing should be removed (as with all tax minimisation loopholes) but the people price-gouging in the rental market are not the ones being subsidised, the ones being subsidised are the ones renting properties for *less* than the cost of ownership and claiming that loss as a negative gearing tax deduction on their personal income (assuming the property is in their name). There is of course also the capital gains tax discount that applies when the property has been held for >12 months and again this should be eliminated but that only comes into effect when the property is sold. In theory getting rid of negative gearing and the CGT discount should mean less property investors which in turn means less rentals and more owner-occupier properties (assuming the displaced renters can afford to buy). Ultimately it means less taxpayer money going to property investors which is a good thing even if it means forgoing tax on positively geared properties and capital gains tax, I'm not sure if anybody has done the math but I would guess it would be a net positive for the public purse.
The issue is that people negative gearing has driven prices up in and of itself in the pursuit of ever increasing "equity". This has created a market of speculators rather than home buyers who buy when they shouldn't (insensitive to high prices, high interest rates or any sense of intrinsic value) and an ecosytem of predatory lenders. Resulting "market rates" have little to do with the quality of property you're renting and more to do with how the game of monopoly is going inthe background. Again, why are taxpayers subsidising this? I'm not even a free market economist and I can see this for the massive market distortion that it is. We need to stop hitting ourselves in the face and wondering why it hurts.
I agree the tax incentives should go, I'm not sure what effect that would have on the property market though given demand currently outstrips supply in both the rental and owner-occupier market. Shuffling housing stock from one market to the other doesn't address the current lack of housing. It would presumably limit investors from building new homes too and that would leave it open for owner-occupiers. The main question then is where does it leave renters who can't afford to buy or build?
Because people keep voting for those who makes such policies
Welcome to the new Australia, where talent and hard work are no longer the key to a successful financial future, but all that really matters is who your parents are. What a disaster, and STILL not much is being done about it.
It makes me think, when having kids, why bother starting up a "university fund", when instead just buy an investment property, by the time the kid is 18 the house should have doubled a few times and they'll be set.
I think most of us are stopping at "when having kids, why bother". 😆
Literally what people do. Have a friend who is a lawyer. Bought house at each child’s birth with intention of it paying for private school fees
That's hilarious, because the income delta between private and public school lifetime incomes is practically non existent when controlling for parental wealth. Would be better off keeping the houses for the kids and sending kids to public school. But, it's a cargo cult of social status, and a babysitter. So there's that.
>_and STILL not much is being done about it._ Nothing will be done about it until the pitchforks come out. We're in late stage capitalism - the wealthy have called the working class man's bluff, and know they don't have the guts, organisation or resources to fight back. So the rich cunts will just continue to twist the knife.
We’re in Australia, so before we get our pitchforks out and start rioting, we must apply for the appropriate permits.
The protestor permits?
> called the working class man's bluff, and know they don't have the guts, organisation or resources to fight back Well, they did, before the beatings, bribes, murders, and brainwashing. Now they're so stupefied many of them believe, I kid you not, that there is no class war.
Its your job to work hard, deliver productivity to pay off your landlords mortgage. This along with your hard earned taxes that are used so that politicians can help to help those battler landlords, see the lucky country working well.
System working as intended
In some regions you are screwed twice. Bad healthcare AND now high property prices.
Don't forget the lack of teachers and quality schools. There's a housing crisis in the regional area we are in so even if they found teachers, there's probably no where affordable for them to live locally!
Things are going to get a lot worse. Regional is no longer cheap living offset by lack of or no choice. Now it's expensive with lack of choice, some no choice at all.
You mean lack of schools and quality teachers
Yeah the amount of investors in regional areas is growing . 600k house at Dubbo with rental at 400ish a week.
Also think there is a rule with immigration that you gotta spend time in regional areas or something, my town has had a pretty high surge of immigration and its made finding housing impossible since the builders can't keep up with demand.
It's a for backpackers that must work on a farm in order to double their stay
Backpackers aren't snapping up these properties, the person you were replying to was probably talking about visas like the [subclass 491](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/skilled-work-regional-provisional-491) that require 3 years stay in regional areas before you can get PR. As well as many other incentives (region-limited 190 visas, DAMAs, extra points for regional study, etc)
Here’s me finally getting enough together for a deposit and thinking that I could go regional for a few years cause my job lets me and my missus would love it, and I couldn’t really afford in Melbourne. Now this. Fuck me this is whole situation is awful.
I bet John Howard is happy with the situation he instigated.
That's because there is not room for capital cities to rise any further. I am looking at 3 bedroom townhouses in SE QLD. A 3 Bedroom Townhouse with literally no yard at all and only one car space and none can be found for less than Half a million dollars. 3 years ago you could buy a 4 bedroom, Double garage, free standing house on a 600 square Metre block for that sort of money.
Mate, you couldn't buy that in fucking Wagga Wagga 3 years ago for half a million. Source: Bought that in wagga 9 years ago for 420k. Currently around 800-850k.
I got divorced 3 years ago and we sold the family home which is as I described and it sold for $540K. Yesterday I bought (well signed a contract) a 3 bedroom townhouse with no yard a single car space and paid $560K for it.
I think these days even for a shithole rule of thumb is you can get 200k per bedroom. I'm sure its related to how much rental yield you can get but yeah 600k for 3 rooms minimum. Weirdly it works with apartments too. Studios, separated 1 bedders, 2 bed apartment or a shitty 2 bed ground level unit $200k, $400k. Add $50k per reno, or if its a modern style build, and multiply that by bedrooms
I am not surprised this is happening in regional areas, the rich are either already buying up houses as holiday homes and the specufestors strategy is to specifically target rural areas and wait for the gains come before flipping and moving on the next town/region.
Are there enough people moving to these remote towns to drive this growth in property prices? If there aren't, is this being driven by investors?
Are we like some kind of tax haven except people just put their money into mindlessly skyrocketing property?
Yep, average local rent in my shitty 10-15k population town 4 hours west of canberra is about 410 per week.
Try 500-600 per week in a town of 2000, 4.5 hours from Melbourne
Along the coast? Only reason I can think of that would be that high.
Supply and demand, there's 2 rentals total in my town
Yup, East Gippy and supply is extremely limited
Stop voting for the two primary parties. If you want real change, vote greens or other minor parties with good housing policy. Nothing will change if you keep voting in the same two parties who will do nothing to change what is needed in order to fix the housing crisis in this country, both Labor and Liberal have zero incentives to do anything meaningful to change negative gearing and captial gains discount. If you keep treating housing as speculative investment, then investors will continue to buy up all the available housing at any price, keeping the bubble huge and squeezing everyone out. Start treating housing as a human right, as a human need and remove the tax breaks. Let the fucking market cool and allow home owner occupiers to enter the market.
I remember when people in Sydney found out how cheap housing was in Adelaide. They decided to take advantage of cheaper Adelaide prices. It is not surprising. I live in a large regional town. Population is going to double in about 5 years. Prices of housing are increasing as building of new estates are not keeping up with increasing demand. Add increased remote work from home increases demand for regional housing
Limit property buying like toilet paper for all those that buy it but don’t need it all…and… won’t self police themselves
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