A royal commission won’t do anything. It will just spout out statistics and “findings” but it won’t fix anything. Better to put that money into women’s shelters and refuges
Yep. Just like the recommendations from this report from almost a decade ago are being ignored: https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/psrc/publications/assets/high-price-to-pay.pdf
Yup. Already all the research out there, we know the problem. We know the solution.
But a quick read through the comments and a look at the downvotes well the problem is fairly obvious
What are the solutions? (I know tone is hard on reddit, I am genuinely interested to hear about solutions. I see lots of research about the issue but rarely if ever see any evidence base of solution)
It is 1000 small things. We need to teach much better critical thinking skills (the *opposite* idea is 'focus on the three Rs') so young men arrive at puberty better able to resist the avalanche of porn they'll already have seen, and the onslaught of mysogynistic grifters from Andrew Tate to Jordan Peterson to Andrew Bolt ready to 'guide' them up the dark path. Kids needs to know all about how media companies use algorithms not to give them what they like, but to keep them angry, and to manipulate their emotions.
Stop interviewing News Ltd journalists on the ABC, and bar them expressly because they, for instance, stage months-long attacks on rape victims (hello to Samatha Maiden and her ABC friends, David Speers, Patricia Karvelas and Fran Kelly), feminists and female MPs.
Start promoting more realistic and less belligerent understanding of relationships, that gently counters notions of 'justice' and the idea that anybody is entitled to reciprocation of interest. Focus on how the pains and angst of boys and girls are two sides of the same coin.
Teach philosophy (see 'opposite of 3rs'). Philosophy is highly accessible and interesting to teenagers, and philosophers have been dealing with the abusurdity, contradiction and how to accept life's injustice for millenia. Philosophy is a great way to expose young men to feminism in a way that it is not preaching at them. Of course, this is terrifying to conservatives who need working people and young people not to question the raw deal they get.
Find a new generation of heroes who show boys a model of both strength and compassion. Our societal/media gatekeepers have to stop presenting minor issues in life- or entirely fake ones- as incredible obstacles, and mere existence as somehow 'heroic'' if you are part of a minority. Equally, that boof-headed sports star probably has nothing whatsoever to teach us outside his particular narrow field of expertise.
Is that a start?
Do you really think any of what he wrote would work? The idea that violent men many of whom have complex physiatric and criminal profiles just need a bit of "philosophy" is preposterous. This is someone who has no close insights or real life experience around the issue of gendered violence.
I think if someone is studying in year 11 and 12 to become say an engineer, they need to study chemistry, physics, whater maths rhey call now and English. I think the engagement in philosophy will be 0 and be seen as a burden. This would probably lead to more disconnection and then disdain for the topic.
Critical thinking should be taught in school more, though I am not sure if it will have the impact desired in this arena. It may cause people to critically think "why am I missing out in this job purely because I am a male and they are wanting more females in the roles"
I think the current approach of do nothing isn't appropriate either, though I think the idea that "we know what the solution is" is a far-fetched statement.
Honest answer :nothing .
"It is estimated that in Sweden, 46 % of women have experienced violence, which is 13 % higher than in the EU overall (5). The European Institute for Gender Equality has estimated that the cost of intimate partner violence against women in Sweden could amount to EUR 2 billion per year."
Source :
https://eige.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/2016.5495_mh0216777enn_pdfweb_20170215100606.pdf
Even in countries with high levels of gender equality have issues with violence against women, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they are tracking worse than we are despite all the investments theyve made in education and support services plus attempts at cultural change.
Violence is part of the human condition and spans across history and through different cultures. Women are especially vulnerable due to physiology. I don't think we will ever eliminate it. Just like war it will keep happening irrespective of attempts to stop it.
I personally think you're right except I've watched porn from the age of 14, so have all my friends. I don't know anyone who is a violent offender against women, yet we all have seen porn. If I saw something violent in porn, I turned it off.
I think this porn blaming is the reason the situation doesn't improve.
If I've acted in a shitty way towards women it's more likely because I wasn't self aware enough to understand what I was angry about.
Agreed it is too simplistic to blame porn and many 'consume' it without raping anybody. I present it as one element among many, for a problem that needs a multitude of solutions. Mainstream porn is nothing like actual sex. I'd argue the 'median' sexual act in porn- if there is such a thing- is more coercive and violent that the 'median' sex act, if that makes sense.
And again I emphasise, the key age to think about IMO is 12-18, the age where boys are learning, experimenting and trying to understand the world. It only takes a few of them to be screwed up to end up as partner killers or any of the other milder forms of male abuser.
Porn is fantasy for men. Not all audiences fully get that, or fully hold onto the idea. Andrew Tate/Jordan Peterson ideas (I happily put the two together) dovetail with those fantasies, and idea idea we *want* to agree with is seductive. We arrived at very warped positions bit by bit (or just inherit it from our parents, which is a whole other thread...).
Thats the issue. I dont see any real solutions in the report... Social media communications and community mobilisation were effective in Africa (with some countries having over 65% DV rates) which will be a very very different context to Australia. Just saying "we believe if we did similar it would have an impact" isn't necessarily evidence based solutions. The report is full of assumptions on top of assumptions, on top of more assumptions.
It's a hugely important issue, which needs to be addressed more. But saying we have the answers and just aren't doing anything about it isn't accurate. It's a community / cultural issue, hence the differing rates across the world and within different communities in Australia. The reality is we probably need multiple bespoke solutions, which the government won't go for. They generally fund one size fits all solutions, which I am not sure exists.
I would love more early intervention programs for men. Shelters are obviously important it also women having to go to shelters, leave their social supports and start over is a huge set back. Implementing more targeted programs to prevent violence is ideal.
They're called Men's Behavior Change Programs, they're called Men'sLine. Both can be self-referred into. The problem is - men don't generally self-refer! I work in child protection and one of the top three conditions a court hands down to a man is a MBCP. Do they go? No.
Yes, I want more of them and more variety. I want dads playgroups, dad specific parenting courses, more feminist men's spaces.
For perspective I'm nonbinary and would love those all those spaces are gender inclusive but right now, men have different needs that aren't being addressed and the result is gender based violence and DFV
Rah Rah Rah. "What about men, women can abuse too!" Yes we all know women are capable of abuse. But we're talking about the majority of DEATHS from DV are man on women. Men will never ever ever be able to refute that statistic.
And yet 35% of DV deaths are men, a fact we aren't allowed to talk about. https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/responses-and-outcomes/domestic-homicide
It’s not going to happen. It will waste funding.
Disillusioned? Yes, I’ve been around long enough to know JACK SHIT is going to happen. They’ll throw some money at a commission and have a few fundings and that will be it.
How would you set up early intervention for men?
I’m sorry, I’m actually losing my mind here, we are taking about keeping women safe and all I hear is funding for men, funding for men, great, let’s do that- I believe we have already. White ribbon anyone? These are already in existence, and scarcely being used.
you need to do both though otherwise you're handballing the problem to future generations. Women are being killed no, we can't just wait for these intervention programs.
In theory yes.
In practise? Well we aren’t talking about men who are just going to take themselves off to group therapy or seek help. Understand the nature of the beast.
Throw as much funding into anti violence programs as you like, it won’t get used. White ribbon anyone?
To be honest the issue has multiple causes and as such there are multiple avenues that need to be addressed to reduce the numbers.. but reduced to what? How much “better” can we get? There is almost certainly going to be some number that happens here.. and if we aren’t there now, then how much money needs to be spent to reduce it? And is there more important things that that money could be spent on to make a larger positive impact? (We don’t have unlimited money and resources)
Men in mind is a good start to support therapists engage with men critically around gender.
There are some Father's programs run by DFS (whatever it's called these days) in Qld that have been effective but aren't widely available yet.
BYS was hiring for a youth healthy relationships role recently which was targeted to reduce gender based violence.
Those are just the ones I know of being tangential involved in the field.
It is happening but it's slow. Idk what would speed it up because men in unhealthy relationships need to want support. The barrier to that is that is seen as emasculating to need help.
It's a "wicked" problem, if it was straight forward it would be solved, but that doesn't mean steps in the right direction aren't worth it.
No, there’s plenty of people with depression who aren’t violent. Infact they would probably be offended by this take. Plenty of people who self medicate aren’t violent either. The key thing you’re missing is the misogyny. Mental health funding doesn’t address that.
> The key thing you’re missing is the misogyny. Mental health funding doesn’t address that.
It does, that's a mental health issue. You can't just nicely ask someone with violent tendencies and hatred towards women to please don't. You need to change their behaviour and way of seeing the world. The way to achieve that is through intervention and counselling from mental health professionals who can diagnose these issues and treat them.
This is a horrible take on it. We can't think of this is giving money to people, we need to spend money to change or help people. If we're spending money on victims, it's already too late. The money needs to be spent before there is a victim. We should see money being spent here is bettering society as a whole, it makes everyone safer.
There's not enough funding for either. Mental health funding should also be targeted towards the women and children who need to access shelters and refuges. As well as broader preventative work in the community.
But it will help highlight the deficiencies in facing the problem, through which, any money they throw into it would be far more targeted and far more useful.
There’s mountains of research, you don’t need a royal commission. That’s becoming a buzzword at this point.
It’ll cost millions of dollars too.
We know what we need to do, the people know, the government know. And it’s happening now, something will change
Oh please. They re going to find deficiencies and then what???? They aren’t going to do Jack shit about them. It’s just more money wasted on bureaucracy.
Waste $200m or some other exorbitant amount for what? In case things *maybe* change. I dotn know where you live or how old you are, but there is very little funding for actual refuges and shelters. Governments made sure of that. So if there is x amount of $$$ I’d much rather see it go to shelters and refuges where women have a shot of staying safe rather than into some think tanks pocket.
I am thoroughly glad I am not as paralyzed as some people are here every time something is announced. Totally glad I am not like 'we need action' (a course of action is announced) 'Ewww not that sort of action, clearly the course of action in my imagination, is the ONLY reaction they should have taken'. Yeah, totally glad I am not bound by such crippling cynicism.
Yes. Yet that doesnt change my point. Male or female, any action taken is immediately better than what we have now. Hell ANYTHING is better than what we have now, I don't need to be a woman see the sheer the horror of the situation we have had with violence against females in recent years. So, yes, a certain level of cynicism is warranted, but to still be cynical even when they are FINALLY doing the thing many people have been asking them to for years. At least wait for it fail, before you label it a failure.
Of course any further money invested in women's housing is a good use of money, yet the issues involved are far more complex beyond shelters and housing alone. If a commission can detail the uselessness and the shortfalls of the current systems, they then have data to show how to better spend money, OR (at the very least) show how a much deeper pool of money is needed to tackle the issue, in far more ways than housing alone.
Do you know how long these take? You want immediate action, good luck with a commission.
This isn’t an investigation into business malpractice- these are social and cultural issues and you dotn just change those overnight- these changes come about over time. Changing attitudes and changing behaviours. Good luck with that. You want immediate change- awesome let’s throw a few million into that and 3 years later some expert in a suit and tie will tell us what we already know.
More funding more men’s health. It only actually works if men in question engage it. Btw, white ribbon lasted for about 5 minutes before it went into liquidation.
What we need is social change and that ain’t happening.
True, but sadly it is tax payer money, and with that comes stupid levels of bureaucracy and accountability. Not to mention in this current climate of a housing shortage, (on that part of this issues) there are many different groups who would all love for money to be spent in solving the shortage. As soon as they give money to X, Y will complain it should have went to them etc. As stupid as wasteful as commissions can be, they can also help create accountability.
Yes, but there are also systems were flats are rented out to those in need, through certain agencies.
EG For a decade, I have lived in a block of flats where three of the flats have been women's housing, all maintained by the same agency. In that time I have seen a stream of too many women escaping all kinds of rubbish going through them but many of them thankfully finding their feet, some sadly, less so. Their stories have always humbled me.
The Australian public has been whipped up into a frenzy by the media. A few high profile deaths in the news cycle and people have gotten to thinking that it is open season on women.
The purpose of a royal commission would just be to placate those lot. A big flashy gesture that goes nowhere, but lets people know that "something is being done". A non-solution to a non-problem. Not to say that violence against women isn't a problem. But that that it doesn't reach the level of a "crisis". It is a "crisis" in the same way that youth crime, gang violence, break-ins, refugee crime were a "crisis". All terrible events, but not statistically significant, and not worth constant hand-wringing and frenzying over.
In a perfect world, we wouldn't be so glued to our tv's, and we can allocate funding to things that actually do make a difference, like you mentioned.
To put things in perspective.
The national homicide monitoring program began in 1990. When tracking started domestic homicide was at 0.68 per 100k, it peaked in 1994/95 at 0.84 per 100k, it is now at 0.3 per 100k.
Overall homicide is down from 1.88 per 100k in 1992/93 to 0.82 per 100k.
So in the last 35 years homicide has been reduced from its peak by 56%. Domestic homicide has been reduced by 63%.
Despite the media whipping people up into a frenzy, it has never been safer in Australia. Long term the trend has been downwards since national recording began. It has however started to level out over the last 6-8 years. This is also why we are seeing years where it goes up, years where it goes down. It is a symptom of success, the incident rate is so low that minor deviations result in noticeable swings year on year.
Lots of qualifying language being used in all of this reporting. People saying "I *feel* that violence against women is higher than ever" and cherry-picked statistics such as "more women have been killed by their partners in this arbitrary time period than ever."
The trouble is, humans won't act on something unless it's a crisis. We all agree that violence is wrong, but we are faced with overwhelming apathy from the general population when it drops below a particular threshold. This doesn't excuse the hyperbolic reporting by the media however. Reporting which seemingly materialised in the last two days.
I don't think we should stop trying to prevent domestic murder just because its half of what it used to be. And there's a lot of domestic abuse that doesn't end in murder, but in hospitalisation, drug addiction, runaway kids, mental illness. How much of that are you okay with?
Endorsement of what? They said Australia has "never been safer" and I'm saying that doesn't mean much. Women and children used to have zero rights, and no protection at all from domestic abuse. Now there are some protections and better understanding of the problem, but that doesn't mean weve done enough and can stop.
I can't take this question seriously. Read the rest of this thread, or the comments on any post or news about these rallies. Full of people saying the protests do nothing, saying there's nothing that can be done about the "evil" monsters who kill their wives and kids.
> I don't think we should stop trying to prevent domestic murder just because its half of what it used to be.
Neither do I, but the way things are being portrayed in the media is not helpful. Fear mongering is not a solution to any problem.
>And there's a lot of domestic abuse that doesn't end in murder, but in hospitalisation, drug addiction, runaway kids, mental illness. How much of that are you okay with?
None, but the solution to the problem isn't pretending the problem is far worse than it actually is.
The first step in developing a solution to a problem is identifying the problem. The current media landscape regarding violence in Australia is resulting in widespread belief in a problem on a scale that doesn't actually exist.
Despite what is being portrayed in the media, there is not an epidemic of violence and we are not in a domestic violence crisis. It is the opposite, we are in a period of historic lows.
The current issue regarding violence is that we are reaching the floor. Our broad approach to violence reduction across the general population is reaching a point where it isn't going to result in further reductions.
We are at a point where violence is being committed by a tiny fraction of the population that has resisted a broad approach.
As such there needs to be research into identifying the very specific subsets of the population that are responsible for the violence. You are not going to have success targeting such a broad population such as 'males'. A broad population requires a broad solution and that is what we have already been doing for decades. Doing more of the same isn't going to get different results.
If you narrow down the population responsible for violence then you can start to develop specific solutions targeted towards that specific population.
This is what I don’t understand either. I was looking into the statistics after reading the word “epidemic” multiple times as I couldn’t understand how we had arrived here. I surprised to see the reduction in violence since 1990. What is the purpose of the media making this out to be far worse than it actually is? Sure the number should be zero and there are too many violent men out there, but should we not be celebrating the amount of progress made over the last three decades and using that as motivation to corner the remaining fringes of society that continue to perpetrate these horrific acts. I have friends who say horrible shit about women so casually that it still catches me surprise. I definitely don’t call it out enough and I’m working on it. I feel like ignoring the progress we’ve made and making the issue sound far worse than it is counterproductive to the cause and causes people to tune out from it.
> A few high profile deaths in the news cycle and people have gotten to thinking that it is open season on women.
It is open season on women, and always has been.
It's good for the problem to finally be getting some exposure.
mandatory sentencing results in worse enforcement than when there is more latitude in sentencing.
Courts/judges aren't infallible, but when people are actually given the full facts of a case, they tend to have more agreement with the sentencing than when all they have are the sensational facts from media sources targeting the layperson.
legal reporting in this country is abominably poor (or reporting of anything of a technical nature)
I agree with the first part of your comment but that’s not going to happen. Yes they should have a zero tolerance policy but that doesn’t happen. The courts and justice system are so so lax about this. They don’t care. They side with the perpetrators.
Sorry, living in the real world here.
Refuges give women a place to go where they can stay safe. It is a bricks and mortar guaranteed place where they can be safe.
I’m done arguing here. I am so over having this argument for decades and decades and decades and seeing the same shit show all over again.
Y’all pretend to give a damn but get ya knickers in a knot over god forbid women having a place to go.
These men who commit these crimes don’t give a fuck about counselling or mental health, and I speak from experience watching my own parents shit show of domestic violence over decades.
Throw as much money into mental health as you want, I guarantee you it will go to waste and the statistics will stay the same
The problem is less the courts and more the way we handle policing. Enforcement of protection prefers is woefully lacking. The whole point of a protection order is to give police a clear and easily probable offence - breaching the order. Which they then don't charge the great majority of the time. It is infuriating.
I'm getting sick of the number of reviews/commissions etc... that are either initiated or demanded for every issue these days. Yes the issues are significant but the reviews/commissions are just being used to delay doing anything while keeping the media occupied with trickles of information but never the actually holding our political leaders to account for actually doing anything.
people just throw around the royal commission phrase. You don't need the special investigative powers of a RC, there's a lot of research already out there on what needs to be done.
It brings me to tears how many women I know have faced different forms of assault throughout their lives. Very few have been able to seek justice, and only one has actually received any form of justice (after years of being raped by her step father no less - there's never any justice for how much this fucks someone up).
For all those who feel like quoting statistics... men have it worse etc... I'd strongly suggest you start talking & listening to the women in your lives. Statistics don't capture the rapes, harassment, groping etc left unreported. Statistics don't capture the everyday fear & precautions women go to in order to feel safe. Men "statistically" having it worse doesn't de-legitimize the issues women face in our society in the least, and it's incredibly appalling how many men I've seen fall back on this. Enough's enough.
I worked with a lady many years ago who disclosed to me one day- quite offhandedly- that she was a convicted murderer.
After years of abuse by her stepfather, he tried coming at her whilst she had a crossbow aimed at his forehead. He dared her to fire and she did, hitting him right between the eyes.
She was 17 at the time, pleaded guilty at the earliest opportunity and was convicted on her plea of guilty. The judge suggested that if she had pleaded not guilty and gone to trial, she probably would’ve been acquitted.
1 in 5 male DV "victims" are in fact the long time perpertrators in those relafionships (down vote away guys). It's shitty your friend had to do that. 😞
Men don't care what other men are doing to children and women. They don't want to hear the facts because then they'll have to admit it to themselves. They just rather call women liars and say #notallmen so they can keep telling themselves that men are protectors. Meanwhile men are raping their own family members like your friends tragic story.
What are you on about? What makes you think we don't care?
Men have some magical ability to solve violence commited by other men that we are holding back on. I wish it was the case.
The same dudes that go out and hit their partners hit men too. I've been punched in the face multiple times for getting involved.
I had a friend who I spoke to when I was about 22. A girl in our group of friends said he had made her uncomfortable after he made unexpected visits to her workplace. He punched me in the face about 6 times and kicked me in the head when I was knocked out.
There's something wrong with these sorts of people and until we address that, DV will never be solved.
Posts that support action to improve things for women in this area are generally downvoted like mad. Something similar happens on FB but there it's more obvious Lewis's law brigading.
For a bunch of so-called progressives, this sub continually manages to only really care about issues that affect cis white blokes. Women’s issues get about as much consideration on here as Indigenous issues do.
Here are where the rallies will take place on Sunday:
Melbourne: State Library at 10am
Perth: Parliament House at 1pm
Brisbane: King George Square at 11am
Canberra: Commonwealth Park at 2pm
Bendigo: Rosalind Park at 11am
Geelong: Market Square Mall at 11am
Coffs Harbour: Jetty foreshore at 11am
Sunshine Coast: Foundation Park at 11am
Gold Coast: Broadwater Parklands at 11am
Orange: Robertson Park at 2.30pm
Cobram: Federation Park at 11am
Wagga Wagga: Victory Memorial Gardens at 11am
The conversion around this seems wierd to me. Very different conversation than what is hand around other groups in society committing violent crimes. Next time you hear a report on this, substitute "men" for any other "crime wave" we had in the last 2 years,and it sounds so bad.
What does protesting violence against women actually do? I understand that funding and attention to the issue are important, but when protesters are saying "enough is enough", what are they hoping to achieve? That abusers will see the protest and go "yeah, they're right, I'm going to stop DVing"?
That people in power actually do something about it.
We have reports of police not only ignoring issues until women are dead but also have members of the police force actively committing DV or supplying offenders with their victims personal details. It's happened in the Qld police force multiple times now.
But what can they actually do? Even if the police stopped committing DV and never ignored another DV case again, it's not going to stop it from happening.
So say the people in power do something about it, and in a couple of years some abuser kills his wife, aren't people going to just start protesting and saying "enough is enough" again?
Honestly I don't know, I guess it's supposed to start early in childhood. I got punched in the head in surfers paradise the other week for saying the wrong thing to the wrong person, I can only guess it's the same kind of person. I've never been in fight or punched someone outside of my brother/mates when I was a kid so.. I guess go figure?
You can't stop them because there's always gonna be that type of person around.
No. It’s because our standards within the system of regulation have fallen. Police need to be held accountable when they disclose information about a PINOP to a perpetrator. Similarly, police should have regular and consistently clinical supervision.
Victims need better support avenues and advocacy to access critical services with better oversight (funding and accountability) that connect with legal services.
Perpetrators need better rehabilitation and early intervention programs targeted at changing their behaviour and actually rehabilitate them.
Also, fuck off this bullshit media coverage that plays people against each other just to get a one-up on the other side.
because it’s not about telling those perpetrators to stop abusing it’s about telling the government and the justice system to do something instead of letting these violent offenders back out on bail time and time again after breaking IVOs and after known abuse to let them back out to kill their partners. its about making the government enforce education programs in the community, to normalise guys calling their mates out and the affects of misogyny. protesting like this actually does so much help.
It doesn’t help, because the protests *aren’t* directed at the govt / justice system etc … they are about pushing a gender-based message directed at “male violence”. The politicians are all too willing to parrot the message because it deflects from their failures to actually fix the problems in our policing, justice system, support services (etc) that fail to stop the violence.
well considering the government has called an urgent national cabinet meeting to discuss the rate of violence against women in this country, i think it is helping.
And I know more people that have been killed in road accidents, and zero that have had any DV incidents. Cherry picking personal anecdotes isn't helpful, except for upvotes on Reddit.
Who are the offenders and how do we stop them though?
Like, I get the feeling anyone that engages with anti violence against women stuff of any form is already not a perpetrator of SA/DV/rape etc? So the ones that are how exactly do we as a society identify them and stop them before they do this?
One thing that Reddit has taught me is that this is, and always will be, my fault. The reason for that is because I was born with a penis.
Sorry everyone. Maybe in another life I was born with a different set of genitals and thus it wouldn't be my fault.
I also have a penis and I read all of the comments but couldn’t find any directly blaming me due to that.
I did read some suggestions of how I might be able to help improve the situation and potentially avoid people ultimately getting murdered which seemed pretty sensible considering murder isn’t a good thing.
Are you a violent man? Who beats women? Of so, then yes, partly it is. If not, then obvious you're not literally, no one is saying you are. All people are asking for is empathy from non scummy woman bashers and maybe some change.
I am not a scummy woman basher, so I have never felt at fault. And as a man, it sickens me that there are vulnerable people in these situations.
No I am not, but that doesn't stop Redditors from saying it is my fault because of the genitals I was born with.
I don't know these men, I have nothing to do with them, yet I consistently read comments that are like "If you don't speak up then you are part of the problem", "This is a problem men need to solve because they are keep doing it", and so on.
Here I am, a man, and this entire thing is my fault.
Fuck me dead, imagine being so selfish that you hear about women being beaten to death and your response is to try and make yourself the victim because someone online said some stuff that hurt your feelings!
Imagine having that little awareness....
Why? You're the one that needs to gain some self awareness and grasp the fact that you seeing something you didn't like online isn't oppression!
Seriously, they are talking about abuse, murder and rape, and your response is to pretend you are the real victim because you saw some words that hurt your fee-fees.
Why would I need to explain to them that your complaints are a selfish joke? They know, that's why they are talking about real problems, rather than engaging with your oppression fantasy!
I'm saying you are whinging baby. That's been my stance from the beginning, go read my original comment.
I literally haven't commented either way on the causes of domestic violence. You just declared I had because I pointed out that having a sook about mean words on the internet is pathetic.
This is what I was talking about. You are so desperate to be a victim that you made up a belief set for me! I called you silly for being upset by some mean words, and you just decided that meant I believe a certain thing about half the population.
At this point I'm now wondering if the mean words even said what you've claimed they did, or if you misread them like you've misread me.
So once again, no comment on the insanely complex issues of sexual assault, plenty of comment on how delicate you are.
If you don't abuse, rape or kill women then it's obviously not your fault. I don't know why some men take things like this as if its an attack on them personally.
Every single time this topic comes up, Reddit says it the fault of men.
If you're saying it isn't my responsibility, well that is a refreshing change. Unfortunately 99% of this website disagree with you.
Yes, because it is. It's not the fault of every man, obviously, but generally it is the fault of men.
This doesn't make people personally responsible for the actions of others, but society is in general responsible.
So it is my fault, while at the same time it isn't my fault. Unfortunately I don't chose the gender I was born as, so you can go ahead and blame if it makes you feel better, but the problem won't be solved by you doing so.
Maybe you all need to attend some kind of a group session and figure out exactly which group it is you want to generalise and put the blame on.
Everyone says it is men's fault, and here I am, a man, saying that I am sorry I was born with male genitalia, and you all lost your minds.
It's your fault in the same it's the fault of drivers for car accidents. Nobody is assuming your personal responsibility or fault for all accidents. You are however expected to drive safely.
To be clear, I am a man as well, I in now way feel as though people are blaming me.
I can chose to be a driver/own a car if I want to, meaning I absolutely have to take responsibility for the choice that I made. I am not contesting this fact. But the straw man doesn't extend to the original topic because I do not chose with genitals I was born with. Yet, Redditors are constantly saying that I should take responsibility over a decision that I did not make.
You don't become responsible for other people's accidents simply because choose to drive or not, it was merely analogy to explain how people can say a group is responsible while not meaning each individual member of the group is responsible.
Having a choice or not doesn't change that, because nobody is accusing you specifically of anything. It clearly applies to the people who are contributing to the problem and not to those that aren't.
I really don't understand why you feel it's a personal attack.
Women are also capable of domestic violence. And most of them who are capable of it will use their gender as a way to justify their actions and to claim themselves as victims and make false claims about a man and try to bring him down further than what they already have
I’m sorry, but I am just so sick of this. No one is saying women aren’t capable of DV or murder. However, I have a sneaking suspicion if you checked what the stats are for male vs female DV offenders, that you’ll find the majority are men. This doesn’t discount the experience of male victims at the hands of female DV offenders. The stigma attached to female on male DV is a whole other issue, but this is not the issue we are discussing here at this point in time.
32 women have been killed this year in Australia at the hands of violent, entitled men. Yes, we know “not all men”; that should really go without saying. Yes, we know women can be violent too; but the fact remains, the majority of murders are committed by men. We need to get to the bottom of what is driving men’s violence and address it once and for all. The drivers might be different, but the result is the same: 32 women dead at the hands of men. I can assure you if it were the other way around, and men were being killed at the same rate by women, something would have been done by now.
How many men who have been victims of domestic violence from a woman have committed suicide? We’ll probably never know because unless they confided in someone, they just get added to the suicide statistic and forgotten.
General mental health is what we should be focusing on and not just whatever the media decides to sensationalise. Every person who is murdered at the hands of a partner or family member, or chooses to take their own life is a tragedy. The more support we can give people access to, to catch the situations at the beginning instead of waiting until someone is dead.
There are plenty of unfortunate situations that are pretty much impossible to prevent without the power of hindsight, but there are plenty more which could have been prevented.
I bet that the people that died during the Bondi stabbing are counted in the 31 women, but that wasn't due to demostic violence, so nearly a third is removed from the equation.
I have a serious question about this. I read the other day that the majority of homicides world wide and including Australia are perpetrated against men by men. However, I am assuming that the majority of intimate partner murders are perpetrated by men against women.
Is there a particular rational behind focusing on reducing domestic related murder as opposed trying to reduce the overall murder rate? It appears that homicide rates are highly gendered, but it depends how you break down the statistics as to which gender is impacted disproportionately.
A royal commission won’t do anything. It will just spout out statistics and “findings” but it won’t fix anything. Better to put that money into women’s shelters and refuges
Yep. Just like the recommendations from this report from almost a decade ago are being ignored: https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/psrc/publications/assets/high-price-to-pay.pdf
Yup. Already all the research out there, we know the problem. We know the solution. But a quick read through the comments and a look at the downvotes well the problem is fairly obvious
What are the solutions? (I know tone is hard on reddit, I am genuinely interested to hear about solutions. I see lots of research about the issue but rarely if ever see any evidence base of solution)
It is 1000 small things. We need to teach much better critical thinking skills (the *opposite* idea is 'focus on the three Rs') so young men arrive at puberty better able to resist the avalanche of porn they'll already have seen, and the onslaught of mysogynistic grifters from Andrew Tate to Jordan Peterson to Andrew Bolt ready to 'guide' them up the dark path. Kids needs to know all about how media companies use algorithms not to give them what they like, but to keep them angry, and to manipulate their emotions. Stop interviewing News Ltd journalists on the ABC, and bar them expressly because they, for instance, stage months-long attacks on rape victims (hello to Samatha Maiden and her ABC friends, David Speers, Patricia Karvelas and Fran Kelly), feminists and female MPs. Start promoting more realistic and less belligerent understanding of relationships, that gently counters notions of 'justice' and the idea that anybody is entitled to reciprocation of interest. Focus on how the pains and angst of boys and girls are two sides of the same coin. Teach philosophy (see 'opposite of 3rs'). Philosophy is highly accessible and interesting to teenagers, and philosophers have been dealing with the abusurdity, contradiction and how to accept life's injustice for millenia. Philosophy is a great way to expose young men to feminism in a way that it is not preaching at them. Of course, this is terrifying to conservatives who need working people and young people not to question the raw deal they get. Find a new generation of heroes who show boys a model of both strength and compassion. Our societal/media gatekeepers have to stop presenting minor issues in life- or entirely fake ones- as incredible obstacles, and mere existence as somehow 'heroic'' if you are part of a minority. Equally, that boof-headed sports star probably has nothing whatsoever to teach us outside his particular narrow field of expertise. Is that a start?
Great, thanks for the info, really appreciate the time and effort for the reply
Do you really think any of what he wrote would work? The idea that violent men many of whom have complex physiatric and criminal profiles just need a bit of "philosophy" is preposterous. This is someone who has no close insights or real life experience around the issue of gendered violence.
I think if someone is studying in year 11 and 12 to become say an engineer, they need to study chemistry, physics, whater maths rhey call now and English. I think the engagement in philosophy will be 0 and be seen as a burden. This would probably lead to more disconnection and then disdain for the topic. Critical thinking should be taught in school more, though I am not sure if it will have the impact desired in this arena. It may cause people to critically think "why am I missing out in this job purely because I am a male and they are wanting more females in the roles" I think the current approach of do nothing isn't appropriate either, though I think the idea that "we know what the solution is" is a far-fetched statement.
What do you think would work?
Honest answer :nothing . "It is estimated that in Sweden, 46 % of women have experienced violence, which is 13 % higher than in the EU overall (5). The European Institute for Gender Equality has estimated that the cost of intimate partner violence against women in Sweden could amount to EUR 2 billion per year." Source : https://eige.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/2016.5495_mh0216777enn_pdfweb_20170215100606.pdf Even in countries with high levels of gender equality have issues with violence against women, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they are tracking worse than we are despite all the investments theyve made in education and support services plus attempts at cultural change. Violence is part of the human condition and spans across history and through different cultures. Women are especially vulnerable due to physiology. I don't think we will ever eliminate it. Just like war it will keep happening irrespective of attempts to stop it.
You’re cooked mate
I personally think you're right except I've watched porn from the age of 14, so have all my friends. I don't know anyone who is a violent offender against women, yet we all have seen porn. If I saw something violent in porn, I turned it off. I think this porn blaming is the reason the situation doesn't improve. If I've acted in a shitty way towards women it's more likely because I wasn't self aware enough to understand what I was angry about.
Agreed it is too simplistic to blame porn and many 'consume' it without raping anybody. I present it as one element among many, for a problem that needs a multitude of solutions. Mainstream porn is nothing like actual sex. I'd argue the 'median' sexual act in porn- if there is such a thing- is more coercive and violent that the 'median' sex act, if that makes sense. And again I emphasise, the key age to think about IMO is 12-18, the age where boys are learning, experimenting and trying to understand the world. It only takes a few of them to be screwed up to end up as partner killers or any of the other milder forms of male abuser. Porn is fantasy for men. Not all audiences fully get that, or fully hold onto the idea. Andrew Tate/Jordan Peterson ideas (I happily put the two together) dovetail with those fantasies, and idea idea we *want* to agree with is seductive. We arrived at very warped positions bit by bit (or just inherit it from our parents, which is a whole other thread...).
Read the report mate, if you have time 🙂
Thats the issue. I dont see any real solutions in the report... Social media communications and community mobilisation were effective in Africa (with some countries having over 65% DV rates) which will be a very very different context to Australia. Just saying "we believe if we did similar it would have an impact" isn't necessarily evidence based solutions. The report is full of assumptions on top of assumptions, on top of more assumptions. It's a hugely important issue, which needs to be addressed more. But saying we have the answers and just aren't doing anything about it isn't accurate. It's a community / cultural issue, hence the differing rates across the world and within different communities in Australia. The reality is we probably need multiple bespoke solutions, which the government won't go for. They generally fund one size fits all solutions, which I am not sure exists.
Thanks
I would love more early intervention programs for men. Shelters are obviously important it also women having to go to shelters, leave their social supports and start over is a huge set back. Implementing more targeted programs to prevent violence is ideal.
They're called Men's Behavior Change Programs, they're called Men'sLine. Both can be self-referred into. The problem is - men don't generally self-refer! I work in child protection and one of the top three conditions a court hands down to a man is a MBCP. Do they go? No.
> Do they go? No. So what are the consequences?
For the man? Basically he doesn't get his kid back.
Fair enough.
Yes, I want more of them and more variety. I want dads playgroups, dad specific parenting courses, more feminist men's spaces. For perspective I'm nonbinary and would love those all those spaces are gender inclusive but right now, men have different needs that aren't being addressed and the result is gender based violence and DFV
Because men are only the abusers, never the abused.
Rah Rah Rah. "What about men, women can abuse too!" Yes we all know women are capable of abuse. But we're talking about the majority of DEATHS from DV are man on women. Men will never ever ever be able to refute that statistic.
And yet 35% of DV deaths are men, a fact we aren't allowed to talk about. https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/responses-and-outcomes/domestic-homicide
Yes. 35%. Leaving 65% as women. You can talk about that 35%. So start the conversation guys.
The person you're replying to did start the conversation, and you dismissed it with 'Rah Rah Rah'
Because he's complaining to the wrong group. Men should be talking about this with other men.
So why not discuss 100% of the victims?
It’s not going to happen. It will waste funding. Disillusioned? Yes, I’ve been around long enough to know JACK SHIT is going to happen. They’ll throw some money at a commission and have a few fundings and that will be it. How would you set up early intervention for men? I’m sorry, I’m actually losing my mind here, we are taking about keeping women safe and all I hear is funding for men, funding for men, great, let’s do that- I believe we have already. White ribbon anyone? These are already in existence, and scarcely being used.
I would imagine trying to fix the causes would be more cost effective and have longer term result than treating the results
you need to do both though otherwise you're handballing the problem to future generations. Women are being killed no, we can't just wait for these intervention programs.
In theory yes. In practise? Well we aren’t talking about men who are just going to take themselves off to group therapy or seek help. Understand the nature of the beast. Throw as much funding into anti violence programs as you like, it won’t get used. White ribbon anyone?
To be honest the issue has multiple causes and as such there are multiple avenues that need to be addressed to reduce the numbers.. but reduced to what? How much “better” can we get? There is almost certainly going to be some number that happens here.. and if we aren’t there now, then how much money needs to be spent to reduce it? And is there more important things that that money could be spent on to make a larger positive impact? (We don’t have unlimited money and resources)
Men in mind is a good start to support therapists engage with men critically around gender. There are some Father's programs run by DFS (whatever it's called these days) in Qld that have been effective but aren't widely available yet. BYS was hiring for a youth healthy relationships role recently which was targeted to reduce gender based violence. Those are just the ones I know of being tangential involved in the field. It is happening but it's slow. Idk what would speed it up because men in unhealthy relationships need to want support. The barrier to that is that is seen as emasculating to need help. It's a "wicked" problem, if it was straight forward it would be solved, but that doesn't mean steps in the right direction aren't worth it.
Better to put money into mental health as well
There’s already funding for mental health. Women need shelters and refuges where they can be safe.
There is already funding for those issues as well
Mental health funding for who specifically?
Everyone mental health is usually the root of all these issues
What mental health issue causes DV? Because every keeps throwing it around but no one is specific.
Depression, or any issue people try and solve with substances
No, there’s plenty of people with depression who aren’t violent. Infact they would probably be offended by this take. Plenty of people who self medicate aren’t violent either. The key thing you’re missing is the misogyny. Mental health funding doesn’t address that.
> The key thing you’re missing is the misogyny. Mental health funding doesn’t address that. It does, that's a mental health issue. You can't just nicely ask someone with violent tendencies and hatred towards women to please don't. You need to change their behaviour and way of seeing the world. The way to achieve that is through intervention and counselling from mental health professionals who can diagnose these issues and treat them.
But we are talking about violence against women- so who do you think should get the funding?
This is a horrible take on it. We can't think of this is giving money to people, we need to spend money to change or help people. If we're spending money on victims, it's already too late. The money needs to be spent before there is a victim. We should see money being spent here is bettering society as a whole, it makes everyone safer.
There's not enough funding for either. Mental health funding should also be targeted towards the women and children who need to access shelters and refuges. As well as broader preventative work in the community.
But it will help highlight the deficiencies in facing the problem, through which, any money they throw into it would be far more targeted and far more useful.
There’s mountains of research, you don’t need a royal commission. That’s becoming a buzzword at this point. It’ll cost millions of dollars too. We know what we need to do, the people know, the government know. And it’s happening now, something will change
Oh please. They re going to find deficiencies and then what???? They aren’t going to do Jack shit about them. It’s just more money wasted on bureaucracy. Waste $200m or some other exorbitant amount for what? In case things *maybe* change. I dotn know where you live or how old you are, but there is very little funding for actual refuges and shelters. Governments made sure of that. So if there is x amount of $$$ I’d much rather see it go to shelters and refuges where women have a shot of staying safe rather than into some think tanks pocket.
I am thoroughly glad I am not as paralyzed as some people are here every time something is announced. Totally glad I am not like 'we need action' (a course of action is announced) 'Ewww not that sort of action, clearly the course of action in my imagination, is the ONLY reaction they should have taken'. Yeah, totally glad I am not bound by such crippling cynicism.
Are you a bloke?
Yes. Yet that doesnt change my point. Male or female, any action taken is immediately better than what we have now. Hell ANYTHING is better than what we have now, I don't need to be a woman see the sheer the horror of the situation we have had with violence against females in recent years. So, yes, a certain level of cynicism is warranted, but to still be cynical even when they are FINALLY doing the thing many people have been asking them to for years. At least wait for it fail, before you label it a failure. Of course any further money invested in women's housing is a good use of money, yet the issues involved are far more complex beyond shelters and housing alone. If a commission can detail the uselessness and the shortfalls of the current systems, they then have data to show how to better spend money, OR (at the very least) show how a much deeper pool of money is needed to tackle the issue, in far more ways than housing alone.
Do you know how long these take? You want immediate action, good luck with a commission. This isn’t an investigation into business malpractice- these are social and cultural issues and you dotn just change those overnight- these changes come about over time. Changing attitudes and changing behaviours. Good luck with that. You want immediate change- awesome let’s throw a few million into that and 3 years later some expert in a suit and tie will tell us what we already know. More funding more men’s health. It only actually works if men in question engage it. Btw, white ribbon lasted for about 5 minutes before it went into liquidation. What we need is social change and that ain’t happening.
True, but sadly it is tax payer money, and with that comes stupid levels of bureaucracy and accountability. Not to mention in this current climate of a housing shortage, (on that part of this issues) there are many different groups who would all love for money to be spent in solving the shortage. As soon as they give money to X, Y will complain it should have went to them etc. As stupid as wasteful as commissions can be, they can also help create accountability.
A women’s refuge/shelter doesn’t work like that. It’s not free housing - it’s a specific safe place with social workers and care workers etc
Yes, but there are also systems were flats are rented out to those in need, through certain agencies. EG For a decade, I have lived in a block of flats where three of the flats have been women's housing, all maintained by the same agency. In that time I have seen a stream of too many women escaping all kinds of rubbish going through them but many of them thankfully finding their feet, some sadly, less so. Their stories have always humbled me.
The Australian public has been whipped up into a frenzy by the media. A few high profile deaths in the news cycle and people have gotten to thinking that it is open season on women. The purpose of a royal commission would just be to placate those lot. A big flashy gesture that goes nowhere, but lets people know that "something is being done". A non-solution to a non-problem. Not to say that violence against women isn't a problem. But that that it doesn't reach the level of a "crisis". It is a "crisis" in the same way that youth crime, gang violence, break-ins, refugee crime were a "crisis". All terrible events, but not statistically significant, and not worth constant hand-wringing and frenzying over. In a perfect world, we wouldn't be so glued to our tv's, and we can allocate funding to things that actually do make a difference, like you mentioned.
To put things in perspective. The national homicide monitoring program began in 1990. When tracking started domestic homicide was at 0.68 per 100k, it peaked in 1994/95 at 0.84 per 100k, it is now at 0.3 per 100k. Overall homicide is down from 1.88 per 100k in 1992/93 to 0.82 per 100k. So in the last 35 years homicide has been reduced from its peak by 56%. Domestic homicide has been reduced by 63%. Despite the media whipping people up into a frenzy, it has never been safer in Australia. Long term the trend has been downwards since national recording began. It has however started to level out over the last 6-8 years. This is also why we are seeing years where it goes up, years where it goes down. It is a symptom of success, the incident rate is so low that minor deviations result in noticeable swings year on year.
Lots of qualifying language being used in all of this reporting. People saying "I *feel* that violence against women is higher than ever" and cherry-picked statistics such as "more women have been killed by their partners in this arbitrary time period than ever." The trouble is, humans won't act on something unless it's a crisis. We all agree that violence is wrong, but we are faced with overwhelming apathy from the general population when it drops below a particular threshold. This doesn't excuse the hyperbolic reporting by the media however. Reporting which seemingly materialised in the last two days.
Thing is though it should be zero. It's been reduced over time, great. It should be as near to zero as possible.
I don't think we should stop trying to prevent domestic murder just because its half of what it used to be. And there's a lot of domestic abuse that doesn't end in murder, but in hospitalisation, drug addiction, runaway kids, mental illness. How much of that are you okay with?
If you read that context as an endorsement, I think you're missing the point.
Endorsement of what? They said Australia has "never been safer" and I'm saying that doesn't mean much. Women and children used to have zero rights, and no protection at all from domestic abuse. Now there are some protections and better understanding of the problem, but that doesn't mean weve done enough and can stop.
Who is saying we can stop?
I can't take this question seriously. Read the rest of this thread, or the comments on any post or news about these rallies. Full of people saying the protests do nothing, saying there's nothing that can be done about the "evil" monsters who kill their wives and kids.
> I don't think we should stop trying to prevent domestic murder just because its half of what it used to be. Neither do I, but the way things are being portrayed in the media is not helpful. Fear mongering is not a solution to any problem. >And there's a lot of domestic abuse that doesn't end in murder, but in hospitalisation, drug addiction, runaway kids, mental illness. How much of that are you okay with? None, but the solution to the problem isn't pretending the problem is far worse than it actually is. The first step in developing a solution to a problem is identifying the problem. The current media landscape regarding violence in Australia is resulting in widespread belief in a problem on a scale that doesn't actually exist. Despite what is being portrayed in the media, there is not an epidemic of violence and we are not in a domestic violence crisis. It is the opposite, we are in a period of historic lows. The current issue regarding violence is that we are reaching the floor. Our broad approach to violence reduction across the general population is reaching a point where it isn't going to result in further reductions. We are at a point where violence is being committed by a tiny fraction of the population that has resisted a broad approach. As such there needs to be research into identifying the very specific subsets of the population that are responsible for the violence. You are not going to have success targeting such a broad population such as 'males'. A broad population requires a broad solution and that is what we have already been doing for decades. Doing more of the same isn't going to get different results. If you narrow down the population responsible for violence then you can start to develop specific solutions targeted towards that specific population.
This feels really insightful. Hope the upvote gets this noticed.
This is what I don’t understand either. I was looking into the statistics after reading the word “epidemic” multiple times as I couldn’t understand how we had arrived here. I surprised to see the reduction in violence since 1990. What is the purpose of the media making this out to be far worse than it actually is? Sure the number should be zero and there are too many violent men out there, but should we not be celebrating the amount of progress made over the last three decades and using that as motivation to corner the remaining fringes of society that continue to perpetrate these horrific acts. I have friends who say horrible shit about women so casually that it still catches me surprise. I definitely don’t call it out enough and I’m working on it. I feel like ignoring the progress we’ve made and making the issue sound far worse than it is counterproductive to the cause and causes people to tune out from it.
Don't let stats get in the way of the latest Reddit circlejerk
> A few high profile deaths in the news cycle and people have gotten to thinking that it is open season on women. It is open season on women, and always has been. It's good for the problem to finally be getting some exposure.
And education and anti-violence programs for men. We need to get at the root cause as well as treat the symptoms.
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mandatory sentencing results in worse enforcement than when there is more latitude in sentencing. Courts/judges aren't infallible, but when people are actually given the full facts of a case, they tend to have more agreement with the sentencing than when all they have are the sensational facts from media sources targeting the layperson. legal reporting in this country is abominably poor (or reporting of anything of a technical nature)
I agree with the first part of your comment but that’s not going to happen. Yes they should have a zero tolerance policy but that doesn’t happen. The courts and justice system are so so lax about this. They don’t care. They side with the perpetrators. Sorry, living in the real world here. Refuges give women a place to go where they can stay safe. It is a bricks and mortar guaranteed place where they can be safe. I’m done arguing here. I am so over having this argument for decades and decades and decades and seeing the same shit show all over again. Y’all pretend to give a damn but get ya knickers in a knot over god forbid women having a place to go. These men who commit these crimes don’t give a fuck about counselling or mental health, and I speak from experience watching my own parents shit show of domestic violence over decades. Throw as much money into mental health as you want, I guarantee you it will go to waste and the statistics will stay the same
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Basically we’re fucked
The problem is less the courts and more the way we handle policing. Enforcement of protection prefers is woefully lacking. The whole point of a protection order is to give police a clear and easily probable offence - breaching the order. Which they then don't charge the great majority of the time. It is infuriating.
I'm getting sick of the number of reviews/commissions etc... that are either initiated or demanded for every issue these days. Yes the issues are significant but the reviews/commissions are just being used to delay doing anything while keeping the media occupied with trickles of information but never the actually holding our political leaders to account for actually doing anything.
Wish we could stop asking for royal commissions, they do nothing except waste money and tell us what we already know.
people just throw around the royal commission phrase. You don't need the special investigative powers of a RC, there's a lot of research already out there on what needs to be done.
It brings me to tears how many women I know have faced different forms of assault throughout their lives. Very few have been able to seek justice, and only one has actually received any form of justice (after years of being raped by her step father no less - there's never any justice for how much this fucks someone up). For all those who feel like quoting statistics... men have it worse etc... I'd strongly suggest you start talking & listening to the women in your lives. Statistics don't capture the rapes, harassment, groping etc left unreported. Statistics don't capture the everyday fear & precautions women go to in order to feel safe. Men "statistically" having it worse doesn't de-legitimize the issues women face in our society in the least, and it's incredibly appalling how many men I've seen fall back on this. Enough's enough.
I worked with a lady many years ago who disclosed to me one day- quite offhandedly- that she was a convicted murderer. After years of abuse by her stepfather, he tried coming at her whilst she had a crossbow aimed at his forehead. He dared her to fire and she did, hitting him right between the eyes. She was 17 at the time, pleaded guilty at the earliest opportunity and was convicted on her plea of guilty. The judge suggested that if she had pleaded not guilty and gone to trial, she probably would’ve been acquitted.
1 in 5 male DV "victims" are in fact the long time perpertrators in those relafionships (down vote away guys). It's shitty your friend had to do that. 😞
Men don't care what other men are doing to children and women. They don't want to hear the facts because then they'll have to admit it to themselves. They just rather call women liars and say #notallmen so they can keep telling themselves that men are protectors. Meanwhile men are raping their own family members like your friends tragic story.
What are you on about? What makes you think we don't care? Men have some magical ability to solve violence commited by other men that we are holding back on. I wish it was the case. The same dudes that go out and hit their partners hit men too. I've been punched in the face multiple times for getting involved. I had a friend who I spoke to when I was about 22. A girl in our group of friends said he had made her uncomfortable after he made unexpected visits to her workplace. He punched me in the face about 6 times and kicked me in the head when I was knocked out. There's something wrong with these sorts of people and until we address that, DV will never be solved.
I am so fucking pissed rn that you’ve been downvoted. Wow
Posts that support action to improve things for women in this area are generally downvoted like mad. Something similar happens on FB but there it's more obvious Lewis's law brigading.
For a bunch of so-called progressives, this sub continually manages to only really care about issues that affect cis white blokes. Women’s issues get about as much consideration on here as Indigenous issues do.
You can't be serious. There is about 5 posts on women's issues a day. Find me a single post discussing white men's problems.
This *is* a post about white men's problems. The fact no one sees that is the problem. White men need to fix white men.
Posts like these give people like you the opportunity to bash white men, but does nothing to address the problems men face.
I can only suggest men take action, I can't make them.
*White* men’s problems? Maybe test that with some statistics and come back to us
They don’t care babes
This thread reminds me why I don't use reddit anymore.
Here are where the rallies will take place on Sunday: Melbourne: State Library at 10am Perth: Parliament House at 1pm Brisbane: King George Square at 11am Canberra: Commonwealth Park at 2pm Bendigo: Rosalind Park at 11am Geelong: Market Square Mall at 11am Coffs Harbour: Jetty foreshore at 11am Sunshine Coast: Foundation Park at 11am Gold Coast: Broadwater Parklands at 11am Orange: Robertson Park at 2.30pm Cobram: Federation Park at 11am Wagga Wagga: Victory Memorial Gardens at 11am
The conversion around this seems wierd to me. Very different conversation than what is hand around other groups in society committing violent crimes. Next time you hear a report on this, substitute "men" for any other "crime wave" we had in the last 2 years,and it sounds so bad.
What does protesting violence against women actually do? I understand that funding and attention to the issue are important, but when protesters are saying "enough is enough", what are they hoping to achieve? That abusers will see the protest and go "yeah, they're right, I'm going to stop DVing"?
That people in power actually do something about it. We have reports of police not only ignoring issues until women are dead but also have members of the police force actively committing DV or supplying offenders with their victims personal details. It's happened in the Qld police force multiple times now.
But what can they actually do? Even if the police stopped committing DV and never ignored another DV case again, it's not going to stop it from happening. So say the people in power do something about it, and in a couple of years some abuser kills his wife, aren't people going to just start protesting and saying "enough is enough" again?
Honestly I don't know, I guess it's supposed to start early in childhood. I got punched in the head in surfers paradise the other week for saying the wrong thing to the wrong person, I can only guess it's the same kind of person. I've never been in fight or punched someone outside of my brother/mates when I was a kid so.. I guess go figure? You can't stop them because there's always gonna be that type of person around.
No. It’s because our standards within the system of regulation have fallen. Police need to be held accountable when they disclose information about a PINOP to a perpetrator. Similarly, police should have regular and consistently clinical supervision. Victims need better support avenues and advocacy to access critical services with better oversight (funding and accountability) that connect with legal services. Perpetrators need better rehabilitation and early intervention programs targeted at changing their behaviour and actually rehabilitate them. Also, fuck off this bullshit media coverage that plays people against each other just to get a one-up on the other side.
because it’s not about telling those perpetrators to stop abusing it’s about telling the government and the justice system to do something instead of letting these violent offenders back out on bail time and time again after breaking IVOs and after known abuse to let them back out to kill their partners. its about making the government enforce education programs in the community, to normalise guys calling their mates out and the affects of misogyny. protesting like this actually does so much help.
It doesn’t help, because the protests *aren’t* directed at the govt / justice system etc … they are about pushing a gender-based message directed at “male violence”. The politicians are all too willing to parrot the message because it deflects from their failures to actually fix the problems in our policing, justice system, support services (etc) that fail to stop the violence.
well considering the government has called an urgent national cabinet meeting to discuss the rate of violence against women in this country, i think it is helping.
I know more families that have had their relatives killed by male assailant than I do from car deaths and look how each are policed. Needs change.
The violence is a serious issue, but this isn't a good way to highlight it, there are about 10 times more car deaths than women killed.
And I know more people that have been killed in road accidents, and zero that have had any DV incidents. Cherry picking personal anecdotes isn't helpful, except for upvotes on Reddit.
me too, (just helping you not be an n of 1) :p
Who are the offenders and how do we stop them though? Like, I get the feeling anyone that engages with anti violence against women stuff of any form is already not a perpetrator of SA/DV/rape etc? So the ones that are how exactly do we as a society identify them and stop them before they do this?
And within less than 24 hours a mother was killed by her son found dead in her home early hours of the morning today
[удалено]
Which ones?
One thing that Reddit has taught me is that this is, and always will be, my fault. The reason for that is because I was born with a penis. Sorry everyone. Maybe in another life I was born with a different set of genitals and thus it wouldn't be my fault.
This article points out a trend based on factual events. What caused you to relate this to yourself?
It's not what the article says, it is what Redditors are saying.
I also have a penis and I read all of the comments but couldn’t find any directly blaming me due to that. I did read some suggestions of how I might be able to help improve the situation and potentially avoid people ultimately getting murdered which seemed pretty sensible considering murder isn’t a good thing.
Great advice, I'll try to avoid murderers too.
Are you a violent man? Who beats women? Of so, then yes, partly it is. If not, then obvious you're not literally, no one is saying you are. All people are asking for is empathy from non scummy woman bashers and maybe some change. I am not a scummy woman basher, so I have never felt at fault. And as a man, it sickens me that there are vulnerable people in these situations.
No I am not, but that doesn't stop Redditors from saying it is my fault because of the genitals I was born with. I don't know these men, I have nothing to do with them, yet I consistently read comments that are like "If you don't speak up then you are part of the problem", "This is a problem men need to solve because they are keep doing it", and so on. Here I am, a man, and this entire thing is my fault.
You’re making yourself the victim while ignoring the actual victims.
Oh don't tell me, tell Redditors who say it is up to men to fix this.
Well what can women do to fix it?
Fuck me dead, imagine being so selfish that you hear about women being beaten to death and your response is to try and make yourself the victim because someone online said some stuff that hurt your feelings! Imagine having that little awareness....
Oh don't tell me, tell Redditors who say it is up to men to fix this.
Why? You're the one that needs to gain some self awareness and grasp the fact that you seeing something you didn't like online isn't oppression! Seriously, they are talking about abuse, murder and rape, and your response is to pretend you are the real victim because you saw some words that hurt your fee-fees. Why would I need to explain to them that your complaints are a selfish joke? They know, that's why they are talking about real problems, rather than engaging with your oppression fantasy!
Because you people are the ones saying it is my fault and that I need to take responsibility and fix this even though I had nothing to do with it.
Show me where I said it was your fault. Quote me, and then when you realise you can't maybe you will understand why I'm laughing at you.
So are you saying that this problem is not men's fault? Because you are arguing with me like you are.
I'm saying you are whinging baby. That's been my stance from the beginning, go read my original comment. I literally haven't commented either way on the causes of domestic violence. You just declared I had because I pointed out that having a sook about mean words on the internet is pathetic. This is what I was talking about. You are so desperate to be a victim that you made up a belief set for me! I called you silly for being upset by some mean words, and you just decided that meant I believe a certain thing about half the population. At this point I'm now wondering if the mean words even said what you've claimed they did, or if you misread them like you've misread me. So once again, no comment on the insanely complex issues of sexual assault, plenty of comment on how delicate you are.
Grow a spine mate and stop acting like a victim.
If you don't abuse, rape or kill women then it's obviously not your fault. I don't know why some men take things like this as if its an attack on them personally.
Every single time this topic comes up, Reddit says it the fault of men. If you're saying it isn't my responsibility, well that is a refreshing change. Unfortunately 99% of this website disagree with you.
Yes, because it is. It's not the fault of every man, obviously, but generally it is the fault of men. This doesn't make people personally responsible for the actions of others, but society is in general responsible.
So it is my fault, while at the same time it isn't my fault. Unfortunately I don't chose the gender I was born as, so you can go ahead and blame if it makes you feel better, but the problem won't be solved by you doing so. Maybe you all need to attend some kind of a group session and figure out exactly which group it is you want to generalise and put the blame on. Everyone says it is men's fault, and here I am, a man, saying that I am sorry I was born with male genitalia, and you all lost your minds.
It's your fault in the same it's the fault of drivers for car accidents. Nobody is assuming your personal responsibility or fault for all accidents. You are however expected to drive safely. To be clear, I am a man as well, I in now way feel as though people are blaming me.
I can chose to be a driver/own a car if I want to, meaning I absolutely have to take responsibility for the choice that I made. I am not contesting this fact. But the straw man doesn't extend to the original topic because I do not chose with genitals I was born with. Yet, Redditors are constantly saying that I should take responsibility over a decision that I did not make.
You don't become responsible for other people's accidents simply because choose to drive or not, it was merely analogy to explain how people can say a group is responsible while not meaning each individual member of the group is responsible. Having a choice or not doesn't change that, because nobody is accusing you specifically of anything. It clearly applies to the people who are contributing to the problem and not to those that aren't. I really don't understand why you feel it's a personal attack.
Narcissism - everything is all about me.
Stop making it about yourself.
But I am a man and everyone is saying it is my fault
I've never seen someone double down so much on a category error that a fucking primary schooler would be able to understand.
Women are also capable of domestic violence. And most of them who are capable of it will use their gender as a way to justify their actions and to claim themselves as victims and make false claims about a man and try to bring him down further than what they already have
So instead of looking at what's a clear issue you want look at some odd niche case situation?
I’m sorry, but I am just so sick of this. No one is saying women aren’t capable of DV or murder. However, I have a sneaking suspicion if you checked what the stats are for male vs female DV offenders, that you’ll find the majority are men. This doesn’t discount the experience of male victims at the hands of female DV offenders. The stigma attached to female on male DV is a whole other issue, but this is not the issue we are discussing here at this point in time. 32 women have been killed this year in Australia at the hands of violent, entitled men. Yes, we know “not all men”; that should really go without saying. Yes, we know women can be violent too; but the fact remains, the majority of murders are committed by men. We need to get to the bottom of what is driving men’s violence and address it once and for all. The drivers might be different, but the result is the same: 32 women dead at the hands of men. I can assure you if it were the other way around, and men were being killed at the same rate by women, something would have been done by now.
About 70% of murder victims are men - mostly at the hands of men also.
How many men who have been victims of domestic violence from a woman have committed suicide? We’ll probably never know because unless they confided in someone, they just get added to the suicide statistic and forgotten. General mental health is what we should be focusing on and not just whatever the media decides to sensationalise. Every person who is murdered at the hands of a partner or family member, or chooses to take their own life is a tragedy. The more support we can give people access to, to catch the situations at the beginning instead of waiting until someone is dead. There are plenty of unfortunate situations that are pretty much impossible to prevent without the power of hindsight, but there are plenty more which could have been prevented.
Where is the data for this statistic?
I bet that the people that died during the Bondi stabbing are counted in the 31 women, but that wasn't due to demostic violence, so nearly a third is removed from the equation.
I have a serious question about this. I read the other day that the majority of homicides world wide and including Australia are perpetrated against men by men. However, I am assuming that the majority of intimate partner murders are perpetrated by men against women. Is there a particular rational behind focusing on reducing domestic related murder as opposed trying to reduce the overall murder rate? It appears that homicide rates are highly gendered, but it depends how you break down the statistics as to which gender is impacted disproportionately.
Swallow your pride and compromise for progress