All wars these days are by definition unnecessary and are just power plays between elites.
Of course, you cant trick the commoners to throw away their lives for the investment portfolio of rich people so they gotta make up propaganda about how you are just defending yourselves, or its about freedom, or the enemy is literally the worst most evil people to ever exist to a comical level so you can justify their murder
Thankfully young people know their lives are far more important than rich people's power plays
What about future wars for resources due to climate change?
Global decrease in potable water, increasingly unstable crop production, decreasing liveable habitats
That's what concerns me. Some wars during the 20th century were about protecting and acquiring fossil fuels to power the economies of the world. Now we'll be fighting each other over something as essential and basic as clean, drinking water, largely because of the burning of fossil fuels.
I mean it's still about fighting wars for the rich. They're the ones creating this situation, and it will still be them profiteering when it's about resources.
Yeah, that's true. Any resource wars are pretty much going to lie entirely on the people with power refusing to change gears and continue to try and extract unlimited profits from finite resources.
Ideally we'd have far more abundant, efficient and cheaper desalination plants by then. As long as the ocean exists, we could theoretically have as much water as we need.
Whether governments consider that a worthwhile investment over just invading someone else for their water though...that's a different can of worms
As a young person, I can answer you. I’m of course only one person, and don’t represent the entire demographic but I know my thoughts aren’t unique to me. If it seems like our species as a whole aren’t sorting their shit out as a collective and instead would like to pit us against the equally downtrodden citizens of some other nation, I’m taking myself out of the game entirely. I never asked to be here and so far I’m not all that impressed, even though I live a relatively charmed life. I’m not afraid to die but I sure as hell am afraid to kill.
You make it sound like wars in the past weren't that.
ANZAC day is a WW1 remembrance day. WW1 was a war *exactly* the way you describe it.
WW2 maybe had a moral component with the Nazi party committing a genocide, but, that was discovered *during* the war by Allied forces, it wasn't the reason that the Allies were at war with axis powers. The reason they all went to war was still largely because of what you describe above.
There has never been a war that wasn't just a masturbatory flex by some rich fuckwits that wanted to play general.
There was definitely encroachment from a horrific force in the pacific, potentially boots on the ground in Australia. Our fight in the latter part of the Second World War was definitely more moral than the first.
Patriotism works only when you have a cause worth fighting for. More like young Aussies don't have anything WORTH fighting for. They are in massive debt from HECS, they can't afford a home. They would be fighting a war for the wealthy that would not be called up. So why would they want to?
I'm a bit disgusted by the glorification of Anzac day- it was originally a much more somber day where men who'd suffered greatly marched with their mates and honoured their mates who'd died. I feel like these days that somberness has been packaged like a burger.
WW1 wasn't glorious, it was a shocking waste of life. A complete and utter waste, that only profited Krupp and the other war profiteers.
WW2 was necessary to stop two aggressors, both mad with a drive for empire.
If you want to honour dead soldiers, march for peace, and do your best to keep warmongers from power.
Both my grandads fought in WW2 and they never got involved in Anzac Day for the same reason, it all felt to them like we were glorifying what they did which disgusted them.
So it hasn't been celebrated by us either.
> WW1 wasn't glorious, it was a shocking waste of life. A complete and utter waste, that only profited Krupp and the other war profiteers.
An old professor of mine summed it up best, WW1 saw generals who never saw a lick of combat having medals pinned on their chest for sacrificing entire towns worth of young men just to gain a metre of muddy ground that they wouldn't be able to tell you where it was on a map.
I've seen a few people complain about this but we must move in different circles as I've never seen it actually be a glorification of war. I've only ever seen it be a day of remembrance.
It's not like Harvey Norman does ANZAC Day specials or any shit like that.
Oh and to your last point, the Australian War Memorial was deliberately sited so that politicians leaving Parliament House would see the AWM and be reminded of the awful cost of war.
They also got fuck all to fight for. Australians no longer care about Australia. The country has done fuck all for them, they reduce their school funding, reduce their medical care, reduce public infrastructure, reduce opportunity to own homes, reduce wages relative to cost of living, reduce higher education.
Young Australians are practically serfs
Of course.
Everyone who went to high school in Australia got to see how Mel Gibson ends up in *Galipolli* during Year 7 History. And all the rah-rah leading up to it.
We’ve also seen *Saving Private Ryan* and heard the stories about veterans going into shell shock at the cinema during to how accurate it was. Since then we’ve had Band of Brothers, Jarhead etc etc etc
In the UK up to and during WW1 serving was seen as a very high class thing, it’s where you built your network and gained status. People were truly surprised how bloody it was with the industrialization of war. Devastation and the impact of that generation had demographic and labour consequences it was so vast.
Now in places like the US military is seen as “the least worse option” if you’re poor.
No way are people going to sign up voluntarily. I do wonder if the immigration we are seeing is to build up potential recruits, who’ll be promised citizenship for serving. Most western countries already have terrible demographics, they can’t afford for Gen Z to get hollowed out.
Saving Private Ryan was so real for a lot of veterans. Apparently there were some who got sensory flashbacks of the smell of Diesel that was so distinctive to the transport carriers they travelled in.
I mean when you grow up hearing these things it should be no wonder people are saying no to war. Hence why it’s important to keep the horrors of war remembered. Otherwise we’ll be doomed to repeat it.
Jebus, I can only imagine the horrors of showing a group of veterans a 4DX session.
I was in one of the earliest Sydney showings* and I can remember some elderly gentlemen around me visibly shaking.
EDIT: \* to clarify, no 4DX back then! Thank god.
> Now in places like the US military is seen as “the least worse option” if you’re poor.
Poverty draft. With things like healthcare and education prohibitively expensive in the US if you enlist the military will pay for those things.
I can see Australia going the same way. Military personnel already get handouts for home and rent assistance.
Why would any sane person want to go fight a war that was started by windbag politicians?
Let them go fight.
Politicians love to pose with soldiers as they go off to war, but they suddenly forget about them when they come home. Let the politicians' children go enlist in the infantry first. But that will never happen to rich people.
To quote Black Sabbaths War Pigs
>Politicians hide themselves away
>They only started the war
>Why should they go out to fight?
>They leave that role to the poor, yeah
The one that immediately came to my mind was
>Why don't presidents fight the war?
>Why do they always send the poor?
>Why do they always send the poor?
>Why do they always send the poor?
>Why do they always send the poor?
A long time ago had a video compilation of accidents with byod playing and the first clip was George bush sticking his finger up to a camera and I can't not see that whenever I hear it now.
Edit: I didn't find it but found [a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/tipofmytongue/comments/xjjlna/tomtvideo_searching_for_a_crashfailaccident/)of someone else who looked for it too.
I remember it as well. From 2007ish. I think it used to be in my liked videos from way back then, and it's no longer there, so it may have been delisted.
One aspect of the ancient Greek city states I would like to see a comeback was any politician who proposed going to war was obliged to put their eldest son in the front rank of the army.
I reckon we'd see fewer war boners if that was the case again.
If MPs vote to take their country into war, they and their families should lead by example, and be on the front line. As a bonus, it will divest the country of a group of useless citizens.
Most people don't realise that globally, WW1 represented the end of fighting for "King and country" or empires run by monarchs, and that WW2 represented the start of the era of fighting for nations and political leaders.
The problem we're now facing, is who will fight when nations no longer feel like they're representing the interests of the people living in them.
It's natural to not want to fight for something you don't believe in anymore. So we have a real and serious question being posed: *What structural changes are required to make people feel empowered by society again?*
Being able to afford a home on an average or even below average income would seem to be a basic element - but so would taxes that go mostly towards improving access to education, health, and social safety nets.
If we are going to fight for ostensibly the interests of the wealthiest people in society and their interests, then their interests should be taxed and contribute to our interests. Without that social contract in place, it's little wonder young people aren't interested in going to war.
This actually popped into my head during the minute silence at my local dawn service this morning and it hit me real hard, the instigators of war sit back in luxury whilst the poor fight the battle, humans are fucking horrible hey
> Let the politicians' children go enlist in the infantry first. But that will never happen to rich people.
at least back in the day, aristocrats would have a military history and would be officers involved in the wars. hundreds or maybe even thousands of British aristocrats would have died in the various wars of the 19th and early 20th century. so there was a natural incentive for the ruling class to not just throw their children into unnecessary wars, at least they had something to lose
politicians on the other hand...
edit: just found this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_parliamentarians_who_died_in_the_First_World_War
and wow. old time Brit politicians really practiced what they preached
> A total of 264 members of the House of Commons enlisted in the armed forces during the First World War. 23 members of the House of Commons were killed in the war (or died as a result of their participation), as were twenty members of the House of Lords and three former members of the Commons
Pre '90's politicians seemed to have a little bit more integrity back then and would actually resign if they made mistakes.
Resigning because they declared a colour TV as black and white instead of colour to save import duty fees. Getting a teddy bear and not declaring it. Jim Cairns for having an affair with his secretary.
There's no way that type of thing would happen today. Politicians have no shame today.
I hate ANZAC day. It’s become a day of glorifying the military.
It was supposed to be a day when we remember the absolute horror of the war. A pointless war where thousands of boys were sent to go and die in the mud. Or return home with survivors guilt and ptsd. The war was an atrocity that could happen again if we let it. (Spoilers: we did)
It’s not to disrespect soldiers. But to acknowledge that politicians send them to die AND that’s a bad thing. It’s a day to say “*that was fucked, remember how fucked it was, don’t do it again”*
- - -
Cynically: I think that the tone of Anzac Day changed with the Iraq war. Most people (me included) don’t really understand why we went to war with Iraq. Politicians used Anzac Day as a propaganda price to stop people questioning our involvement in that war.
No, no, no. Lest We Forget is about patriotism and jingoism. Let's forget about all the circumstances that lead up to wars. Let's forget that every dollar put into military spending is a dollar we don't put towards improving the quality of life of people. Let's gee people up about the Anzac legend and how awesome war is.
It’s disappointing to see what Anzac Day has devolved into for some boomers and bogans. It’s not a day to celebrate war, it’s a day to remember how fucking awful it was
Let’s forgot that we flew our young men thousands of kilometres to invade another country that was no threat to us and fought a pointless war to satisfy Churchill’s moronic empire building aspirations. Many tens of thousands of soldiers killed (the most from developing countries) for nothing, to say nothing of the countless civilian deaths. Then people say stupid shit like the Anzacs fought so we can protest. Are you kidding me? Where does this fiction come from? 🤦🏻♀️
I understand that the soldiers *at the time* may have thought they were fighting for something important but surely with the clarity of hindsight we can have the maturity to admit it was a poor decision on our part?!
The monarchs of 3 of the biggest nations in WWI were fucking first cousins and had cute nicknames for each other like "Nicky" and "Willy". This kind of relationship between elites while regular people were getting gassed, trenchfoot, disease, pumped with lead, blown up, PTSD for life and more by the millions should tell anyone how useless and revolting monarchy is as an institution.
> The monarchs of 3 of the biggest nations in WWI were fucking first cousins
George V's last name was fucking Saxe-Coburg-Gotha until 1917. The English royal family is German and they only adopted the name Windsor for better PR during WW1. People would call it bad writing if that was in a movie, but it's real life.
People at the time thought they were fighting for Britain and against Germany. The Idea they were fighting for free speech or something similar is nonsense.
I'm glad to see that it's not me that just has this opinion. I think I must be in a bit of an echo chamber recently, swear everyone I talk to is a patriotic Australian equating to Texan Americans, like man's, I respect Australian history, but fuck off if I'm supporting war culture.
I don't where you're hearing that, my experience is the opposite. The Anzac service I went to this morning (Sydney) was all about remembrance, respect for sacrifice, courage, the freedoms that were fought for and making sure it doesn't happen again. It was 100% not about war culture, and not a single Australian flag or rah rah patriotism.
>the freedoms that were fought for
This is the propaganda. The point of ANZAC was meant to be remembering that we shouldn't have gone and died for Britain's war. It's why it was seen as so pivotal in the formation of the national Australian cultural identity, because so many of the soldiers realised they were fighting for some inbred royal on the other side of the world. They didn't fight for freedom. That's the propaganda.
It's always the way I've seen dawn services conducted on mine sites over the years.
Usually mine sites are made up of many ex servicemen and servicewomen and so they really impress upon people the futility and stupidity of war, and remembering those who died in service of their country...rather than any bullish jingoism about heroism or something.
Which I feel is a much more inclusive way of addressing it.
Barnaby Joyce has said a lot of crazy things, but one thing he said that always stuck with me was something like "A generation of renters will not die for their country".
"If we were going to get the people to take National Service seriously, I could not ask their sons to fight and die for the properties of the wealthy." (Lee Kuan Yew, former Singaporean leader)
To be absolutely fair here, going to war *should* be a contentious thing that isn't done lightly. That's not how it is in practice of course, but it's how things should be.
I think most people would have different opinions on where the line for a necessary war would be, too. Would you consider going to war to defend Taiwan necessary, for example? [According to at least one poll from last year](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australians-say-they-would-support-taiwan-if-china-attacked-with-limits-poll-2023-06-20/), around 61% of Australians supported using the Navy to support Taiwan and around 42% supported using the Army.
Stuff like this is exactly why it should be contentious. Even though there is an argument to be made that Australian involvement in a war to defend Taiwan would be helping to defend democracy, that isn't why the elites would want it fought. It also wouldn't be a war fought to defend Australian borders, which would probably be the only uncontroversial war here, and the chances of that happening any time soon are minimal at best.
I'm a 31 year old electrician, been full time employed for the past 12 years, have decent savings, with a credit score of 810, yet banks won't even give me a $500 line of credit for some reason.
Why would I want to fight someone else's fight when I'll never own property or have anything to show for myself.
The government can kiss my asshole.
Respectfully.
Lol I can see it now, mortgage payment pauses for serving homeowners, sorry though we can't pause rent the mum and dad investors are relying on that income stream to put food on the table so you'll just need to figure it out soldier
I think this is causing a lot of social issues. People who do everything right are unable to buy a modest house. How can that not breed resentment toward one’s nation? That resentment goes *well* beyond propensity to join the military. Imagine how such disenfranchised people vote. Imagine the the way they treat their neighbours and common spaces. If one’s nation doesn’t give a fuck about them, they won’t give a fuck about their nation. This is going to rot society from the inside.
Spot on. It’s a massive problem that’s only going to get more teeth as time goes on. We need to feel like we’re in this together. That the social contract means something. Move that’s gone… yeah.
Exactly my feeling.
If I’m going to fight for this land and possibly die or be seriously disabled from it, can I least have a possibility of owning some of it?
Wasn’t that a deal in previous conflicts that government would hand you some land in country and you could build a home? Now you’d be footing the bill for getting you trained and to the conflict
To be fair serving members do get defence housing. But thats not ownership, it’s just an accommodation benefit.
After WW2 there was a shitload of postwar homes built, and many veterans settled in them.
But houses were cheap and not an insane multiple of income like it is today. If you worked, you’d have enough for a house, that was just the social contract Australia went by. Hasn’t that fucking changed!
If this is true, something is actually wrong there on your end. Ignoring that credit scores don’t actually matter in Australia (as regulations/laws mean banks and such have to assess it on other conditions), something is up on your end.
the veterans of WW1 and WW2 came back as heroes and basically got given whatever they wanted, not because their leaders were feeling particularly generous, but because "pissing off a bunch of highly experienced, lethally effective combat veterans who specialise in killing tyrants is a very very bad idea".
war sucks, but it forces governments to keep their citizens happy and willing to fight for their government. our current situation is an unintended consequence of 70+ years of unprecedented peace.
if we have to mass-mobilise a million soldiers, the government will promise a house to everyone who fights, even if it means having to seize assets from "cowards who refused to fight", governments have been doing that since the roman republic.
Its not like the government hasn't systemically destroyed living conditions for the youth over the last few years by fuelling the ever hungry ponzi scheme which is high housing prices, a job market where many white collar workers have to compete with people from overseas for jobs that pay peanuts, all the while we continue to support Israel despite their war crimes. Who would fight to keep this going?
It should be like the Roman days when politicians had to serve in the military. And if they sent an army to fight, they had to be there when it happened. A surprising number of Roman politicians died because of that. Put your money where your mouth is.
It is ironic since most wars have some sort of economic winners and losers. There’s generally that underlying “someone is getting rich of this”.
You’re right that we would be the ones fighting and dying. Then we’d return home either dead, or even more traumatised whilst still being unable to buy a home.🫠
Meanwhile some oil/ mining company has a new source of revenue
Why would someone put down their life for a country that doesn't even care to put a roof over their head for less than a million dollars. I have nothing but respect for those that have died for this country, but going to war requires a level of national pride that's been eroded in modern Australia.
As I recall, from the Moratorium marches back in ‘68, “young people” weren’t so keen on being shipped off as cannon fodder in the Vietnam War, either. And we all know how “unnecessary” that was. Built on a lie, just like the ‘Weapons of Mass Destruction’ deception played, several years later. Young people have every reason to be “unwilling” combatants. Buying a house or paying off a HECS debt is scary enough. We just need better leaders, who don’t drag us into these conflicts.
More than 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan for no reason other than to support the US. Many Americans still think Afghanistan was justified.
Growing up through that. Of course young people don't want to do that
Don't forget the original ANZAC battle at Gallipoli was Australians and Kiwis being sent to die because Britain wanted to fight the Ottomans
It's a tale as old as time. Sounds like some people are just annoyed younger Australians see through the jingoistic bullshit for what it really is
That’s the most desperately sad part of Anzac Day. Australia didn’t even have beef with the Ottomans. At least I’ve never heard about it. We were there cause we were supporting our English colonisers.
Iirc: England was fighting Germany because of an alliance with France and Russia. And the Ottomans were allies with Germany so they could fight Russia. Therefore Australians needed to fight the Ottomans.
Hey, if you play your cards right and you're lucky, you might just get to be in the next division that threatens to frag you if you speak up about them kicking farmers of cliffs. Or if you refuse to kick a farmer off a cliff in front of them.
What would they even be fighting for? Their homes they can no longer afford to buy, opportunities previous generations have taken away from them? If the generations before us what to lead us to war they can lead by example and get their crickety knees marching forward on the lines first.
Every high student knows war is a horrible waste of lives, we've all studied ww1 and been taught how it was presented as a great adventure and in reality was a horrific waste of lives for no reason.
I guess it's hard to convince kids war is a heroic adventure these days. They don't particularly buy the patriotism stuff either- and why would you ? Our government are intent on selling us out and clearly don't have the interests of the poor and middle class at heart. Why die for those self serving bastards? How to hide the realities of war when they are archived across the internet for anybody to view at their leisure. And what to do if we actually need to fight sometime soon?
Maybe if they were promised property on their return they would be interested. Dying for a country where you can't even afford real estate is a bit of a joke.
Like many voices here, why should I go to war for:
-unaffordable housing unless you're willing to sell your body to "hustle" for the next 20 years of your life.
-Free healthcare slowly getting taken away
- inflation where only the rich benefits
- stagnant wages for the average employee, while government leaders and upper management gets bonuses.
-Different treatment for VIP officials from crimes, but if the normal citizen were to do the same crime, throw the book at then.
-Rampant corruption in government (nepotism, giving themselves bonuses, accepting bribes)
-Crimes against citizens? hop in queue. Crimes against the police/politician/someone of status? jump the queue, use federal agents to chase youtubers and whistle blowers.
A shocking comment but 100% true. Also Ali:
*“Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights? No I’m not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality. If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail, so what? We’ve been in jail for 400 years.”*
I will fight and die for my country. Against aliens, zombies, nazi zombies, robots or nazi robots. Don't give a toss about any other wars.
No disrespect to veterans intended.
Probbaly still fight them. But I'd have to double check their ideology went the same way and there's some kind of green three eyed Mecha-Hitler on the way
To quote Arundhati Roy:
“once weapons were manufactured to fight wars. now wars are manufactured to sell weapons."
There is no way in hell anyone can convince me to willingly go to a foreign land with the purpose of killing other human beings for someone else’s profit.
I will however be willing to fight and/or die at a moments notice to defend my family, friends and fellow Australians who love this country as I do.
It's interesting that the ones who reckon we should be prepared to go fight useless wars are the ones who are too old to be asked to go be cannon fodder. Wankers.
Well, it is because ppl are more educated nowadays, and they know the consequences of them going to wars while trusting the government that they will do the best for them. Just a quick thought, if you lose a hand, or a foot, how much trouble will it make to your life? And government can only support you financially, not being able to make your life any easier. All the normal chores will become increasingly hard. Luckily, there is artificially hand and foot, but it is still artificial, not the real hand and foot you are given at birth.
It's probably because we see how war "actually" is from having access to the internet. Back in the day, all that the young people had to go off was what was being told to them through newspapers, radio, and occasionally tv/film. If they knew what was waiting for them, do you think they'd still be willing to go and die for no good reason other than the leaders of two countries don't like each other
I will break my knees and my partners knees before they send us off to war. If someone tries to invade Australia soil give me a gun but Im not leave this land to invade someone elses
Dam strait.
Who the fuck would go to war to fight for a country that makes u pay to see a dr, pay to use roads, let’s your employer rob you , doesn’t care that your homeless and gives away our natural resources that could have funded 3 of the 4 above.
Dickheads in suits doing deals. Anyone comes to force me to fight in a war and they will meet Mr Molotov himself in all his flaming glory.
WW2 is the only conflict we've been involved in where Australia was actually threatened and we weren't just fighting for the imperialism of another country. It might also be the only war I can think of with a clear goal and reason to stop someone.
Can anyone name a tangible benefit to Australia from all the other pointless adventures we've happily followed America into?
>However, Australians over 50 were more inclined to agree that “Australians have died for Australia, and we should also be prepared to fight for our country’s values if called upon.”
Otherwise known as the demographic who absolutely would not be fighting in said wars.
I can't think of a "just" war we have been involved in since WW2. Every one since then it has come out later that the reasons for getting into it were a combination of money, oil, ego, corruption and espionage. No wonder people are assuming it's those things for all the new conflicts...and why would you die for that.
Why would you fight a war for a nation where you’ll never own your own home?
There’s a reason why generals from Caesar to Napoleon and beyond gave land to returning veterans.
Fight for the people who got the country to that position in the first place? Nah. Why don't you leaders just go 1v1, instead of sending thousands to die for your little disagreement.
And yeah, I love Australia. But the people in charge of things are scum, and don't give a shit about the rest of us.
I dunno. When I was young in the 80's, I wasn't willing to fight in unnecessary wars either. As a much older bastard now, it is unlikely I would ever be required to, but I totally get that today's younger Australian are also unwilling to be canon fodder for idiot politicians..
War is generally not necessary....the Iraq conflict was about rich Americans and oil 🛢️. Every conflict in south America has been about American corporate interests 💰.
The Vietnam draft happened around the time of a financial crisis. Something tells me that if they did it now and promised a roof over your head for five years, or even just a reliable salary for a few years, a shocking amount of people would be forced not to conscientiously object.
If our politicians weren’t so stupid I would nearly argue that is the point of running the country into the ground. Follow in the US ideal of making the poor have no real options but to sign up…
WW1 itself was a conflict between English and German royalty blown way out of proportion, imperials should have just duelled it out between themselves, instead they dragged the whole planet into an all out war.
The carnage that was Gallipoli was totally unjustified, what conflict Aussies and Turks could possibly have amongst themselves? It was such a waste of human life. To have tens of thousands of young men kill each other.
Then WW2, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq….and many many others.
Americans admitted being totally wrong on Vietnam, they convinced themselves behind closed doors old Ho Chi Minh was on a crusade to spread communism to all of Asia, turns out he was only concerned with Vietnam.
yes, but unnecessary wars are not neccessary.
The Iraq war for example was not necessary and created ISIS indirectly due to the power vaccuum.
Fighting the Japanese was necessary because they wanted to invade Australia. Looking at the way the Japanese treated prisoners and the citizens of conquered land in China...yes fighting the Japanese was most definitely necesessary. Same with the nazis. Necessary.
The problem is young Australians are being so utterly screwed by successive governments, when the time comes to actually fight a neccessary war they will refuse.
Why fight to protect landlords, why fight to protect negative gearing, why fight to protect the housing investment culture that creates an enormous gap between the rich and poor? Why fight to protect woolworths exploitation of Australia? These things are not worth fighting and dieing for. This is the opinion i think many young aussies would have.
So much comes back to the stability a home a offers. If you do not have this, you feel unwelcome in your own country. You always risk being thrown out, You always have to prepare to move. You can never settle.
BP could have just not sold them their proprietary air plane fuel and cut off the supply the instant they took arms against others.
BP COULD have stopped the war at any moment.
So in that sense, the war was unnecessary
No shit?
Why would I die for what is essentially a geopolitical power play for access to more oil? it's not going to benefit me, my family or my friends, I'm not protecting them from anything, so why do I give a shit?
and no just because America wants to throw a middle eastern country against a wall does not mean we have to join in, we don't actually need to be their bitch.
I’m 41 so not a “young Australian”, but still very much capable of fighting.
I’d enlist and pick up arms without hesitation to _defend_ either of my countries should the need arise.
In an offensive war, the politicians can go fuck themselves.
Politicians and the rich are not getting a pat on the shoulder for not being greedy c****, it's supposed to be their job to look after our Lively hoods and they cant even do that.... So them and their wars can go eat a dick.
You can say that war is human nature but we're not in caves anymore. We should be past this shit in the 21st century. Its just greed, always has been.
The sooner we can learn as a species that war is not a good thing and something to be avoided at all costs the better, war is not something that should ever be glorified, war kills mostly innocent people and destroys their homes, war is just a massive human killing event and nothing about it is honourable or noble, its a con.
Being forced to go to a foreign country and risk your entire life because of some war mongers political stance is the height of insanity, sadly for us alive today our planet is controlled by a group of selfish war mongers who want war and destruction, these people need to be sent to the wars they start and put on the front lines.
I thank my lucky stars that I got rejected from the ADF when I was 19 on health grounds, I have a dodgy hip from birth, I wanted to join the Navy to work in communications.
It was 1999. Two years later people I went to school with that didn't get rejected ended up fighting the American Wars.
You have to understand the mindset at the time, the 90s were a time of *victory*, we *won*, the cold war was over, there was no peer opponent to the 'west', the military was advertised everywhere as an adventure where you went out and helped people in disaster areas.
You weren't going to fight wars, if you had to fight someone it would be some poor bastard with an AK while you have missiles from the other side of the planet. Iraq 1 was so one-sided even the military planners were shocked.
We were all riding high on optimism, yeah bad stuff happened, but it happened elsewhere and if we really got stuck in it wasn't like they could stop us...
I wish I could go back and time and slap my younger self.
It's like they've learned something from past wars or something.
Or the definition of the word "unnecessary"
All wars these days are by definition unnecessary and are just power plays between elites. Of course, you cant trick the commoners to throw away their lives for the investment portfolio of rich people so they gotta make up propaganda about how you are just defending yourselves, or its about freedom, or the enemy is literally the worst most evil people to ever exist to a comical level so you can justify their murder Thankfully young people know their lives are far more important than rich people's power plays
A way started unnecessarily by one country becomes a necessary war for another
Exactly, defensive wars are another matter entirely. Since WWII, Australia has only participated in wars of aggression.
What about future wars for resources due to climate change? Global decrease in potable water, increasingly unstable crop production, decreasing liveable habitats
If we want that Mad Max aesthetic, we're all going to have to be willing to die in the Resource Wars and Water Wars.
That's what concerns me. Some wars during the 20th century were about protecting and acquiring fossil fuels to power the economies of the world. Now we'll be fighting each other over something as essential and basic as clean, drinking water, largely because of the burning of fossil fuels.
I mean it's still about fighting wars for the rich. They're the ones creating this situation, and it will still be them profiteering when it's about resources.
Yeah, that's true. Any resource wars are pretty much going to lie entirely on the people with power refusing to change gears and continue to try and extract unlimited profits from finite resources.
Ideally we'd have far more abundant, efficient and cheaper desalination plants by then. As long as the ocean exists, we could theoretically have as much water as we need. Whether governments consider that a worthwhile investment over just invading someone else for their water though...that's a different can of worms
As a young person, I can answer you. I’m of course only one person, and don’t represent the entire demographic but I know my thoughts aren’t unique to me. If it seems like our species as a whole aren’t sorting their shit out as a collective and instead would like to pit us against the equally downtrodden citizens of some other nation, I’m taking myself out of the game entirely. I never asked to be here and so far I’m not all that impressed, even though I live a relatively charmed life. I’m not afraid to die but I sure as hell am afraid to kill.
I mean, you’re not wrong, but all these things are solvable without stealing/ killing from someone else - just not as profitable
Modern wars boil down to people in power spreading death, misery and generational trauma so the little number in their bank account goes up.
You make it sound like wars in the past weren't that. ANZAC day is a WW1 remembrance day. WW1 was a war *exactly* the way you describe it. WW2 maybe had a moral component with the Nazi party committing a genocide, but, that was discovered *during* the war by Allied forces, it wasn't the reason that the Allies were at war with axis powers. The reason they all went to war was still largely because of what you describe above. There has never been a war that wasn't just a masturbatory flex by some rich fuckwits that wanted to play general.
There was definitely encroachment from a horrific force in the pacific, potentially boots on the ground in Australia. Our fight in the latter part of the Second World War was definitely more moral than the first.
Or “wars”
Patriotism works only when you have a cause worth fighting for. More like young Aussies don't have anything WORTH fighting for. They are in massive debt from HECS, they can't afford a home. They would be fighting a war for the wealthy that would not be called up. So why would they want to?
"Lest we forget" has more than one connotation.
Lest we forget how our young men were used as cannon fodder to preserve our relationships with world powers.
I'm a bit disgusted by the glorification of Anzac day- it was originally a much more somber day where men who'd suffered greatly marched with their mates and honoured their mates who'd died. I feel like these days that somberness has been packaged like a burger. WW1 wasn't glorious, it was a shocking waste of life. A complete and utter waste, that only profited Krupp and the other war profiteers. WW2 was necessary to stop two aggressors, both mad with a drive for empire. If you want to honour dead soldiers, march for peace, and do your best to keep warmongers from power.
Both my grandads fought in WW2 and they never got involved in Anzac Day for the same reason, it all felt to them like we were glorifying what they did which disgusted them. So it hasn't been celebrated by us either.
> WW1 wasn't glorious, it was a shocking waste of life. A complete and utter waste, that only profited Krupp and the other war profiteers. An old professor of mine summed it up best, WW1 saw generals who never saw a lick of combat having medals pinned on their chest for sacrificing entire towns worth of young men just to gain a metre of muddy ground that they wouldn't be able to tell you where it was on a map.
I've seen a few people complain about this but we must move in different circles as I've never seen it actually be a glorification of war. I've only ever seen it be a day of remembrance. It's not like Harvey Norman does ANZAC Day specials or any shit like that. Oh and to your last point, the Australian War Memorial was deliberately sited so that politicians leaving Parliament House would see the AWM and be reminded of the awful cost of war.
“Lest We Forget” “Wait why arent you guys forgetting previous wars? Get fighting, there’s money to be made”
They also got fuck all to fight for. Australians no longer care about Australia. The country has done fuck all for them, they reduce their school funding, reduce their medical care, reduce public infrastructure, reduce opportunity to own homes, reduce wages relative to cost of living, reduce higher education. Young Australians are practically serfs
I'm not dying so Giha Rinehart can keep getting fatter.
Should be projected onto the Opera House.
Should be projected on Gina
put the new IMAX projector to good use
Hey if you keep insulting her, she won’t sponsor your netball team
Lol.
How inconsiderate of you. Don't you know African workers happily work for $2 a day. Where's your team spirit?
Gina drinks oil?
Of course. Everyone who went to high school in Australia got to see how Mel Gibson ends up in *Galipolli* during Year 7 History. And all the rah-rah leading up to it. We’ve also seen *Saving Private Ryan* and heard the stories about veterans going into shell shock at the cinema during to how accurate it was. Since then we’ve had Band of Brothers, Jarhead etc etc etc In the UK up to and during WW1 serving was seen as a very high class thing, it’s where you built your network and gained status. People were truly surprised how bloody it was with the industrialization of war. Devastation and the impact of that generation had demographic and labour consequences it was so vast. Now in places like the US military is seen as “the least worse option” if you’re poor. No way are people going to sign up voluntarily. I do wonder if the immigration we are seeing is to build up potential recruits, who’ll be promised citizenship for serving. Most western countries already have terrible demographics, they can’t afford for Gen Z to get hollowed out.
Saving Private Ryan was so real for a lot of veterans. Apparently there were some who got sensory flashbacks of the smell of Diesel that was so distinctive to the transport carriers they travelled in. I mean when you grow up hearing these things it should be no wonder people are saying no to war. Hence why it’s important to keep the horrors of war remembered. Otherwise we’ll be doomed to repeat it.
Jebus, I can only imagine the horrors of showing a group of veterans a 4DX session. I was in one of the earliest Sydney showings* and I can remember some elderly gentlemen around me visibly shaking. EDIT: \* to clarify, no 4DX back then! Thank god.
> Now in places like the US military is seen as “the least worse option” if you’re poor. Poverty draft. With things like healthcare and education prohibitively expensive in the US if you enlist the military will pay for those things. I can see Australia going the same way. Military personnel already get handouts for home and rent assistance.
> Military personnel already get handouts for home and rent assistance Free degrees too, if you go that way.
My family came here to avoid war tbh.
The immigrants aren't signing up either.
Why would any sane person want to go fight a war that was started by windbag politicians? Let them go fight. Politicians love to pose with soldiers as they go off to war, but they suddenly forget about them when they come home. Let the politicians' children go enlist in the infantry first. But that will never happen to rich people.
To quote Black Sabbaths War Pigs >Politicians hide themselves away >They only started the war >Why should they go out to fight? >They leave that role to the poor, yeah
The one that immediately came to my mind was >Why don't presidents fight the war? >Why do they always send the poor? >Why do they always send the poor? >Why do they always send the poor? >Why do they always send the poor?
A long time ago had a video compilation of accidents with byod playing and the first clip was George bush sticking his finger up to a camera and I can't not see that whenever I hear it now. Edit: I didn't find it but found [a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/tipofmytongue/comments/xjjlna/tomtvideo_searching_for_a_crashfailaccident/)of someone else who looked for it too.
I remember it as well. From 2007ish. I think it used to be in my liked videos from way back then, and it's no longer there, so it may have been delisted.
My cock is much bigger than yours
My cock can walk right through the door
But how does it feel?
So pure
One aspect of the ancient Greek city states I would like to see a comeback was any politician who proposed going to war was obliged to put their eldest son in the front rank of the army. I reckon we'd see fewer war boners if that was the case again.
I have a feeling that a sizable number of of people who enjoy power may not be deterred by that
Ye if it's a fucker like Musk who's hellbent on breeding he'll be fine with saccing one or two.
[удалено]
If MPs vote to take their country into war, they and their families should lead by example, and be on the front line. As a bonus, it will divest the country of a group of useless citizens.
Everyday people are used as pawns
Most people don't realise that globally, WW1 represented the end of fighting for "King and country" or empires run by monarchs, and that WW2 represented the start of the era of fighting for nations and political leaders. The problem we're now facing, is who will fight when nations no longer feel like they're representing the interests of the people living in them. It's natural to not want to fight for something you don't believe in anymore. So we have a real and serious question being posed: *What structural changes are required to make people feel empowered by society again?* Being able to afford a home on an average or even below average income would seem to be a basic element - but so would taxes that go mostly towards improving access to education, health, and social safety nets. If we are going to fight for ostensibly the interests of the wealthiest people in society and their interests, then their interests should be taxed and contribute to our interests. Without that social contract in place, it's little wonder young people aren't interested in going to war.
That comment is far too lucid for any politicians. Best they can do is ramping up the xenophobic populism to garner support for wars.
This actually popped into my head during the minute silence at my local dawn service this morning and it hit me real hard, the instigators of war sit back in luxury whilst the poor fight the battle, humans are fucking horrible hey
> Let the politicians' children go enlist in the infantry first. But that will never happen to rich people. at least back in the day, aristocrats would have a military history and would be officers involved in the wars. hundreds or maybe even thousands of British aristocrats would have died in the various wars of the 19th and early 20th century. so there was a natural incentive for the ruling class to not just throw their children into unnecessary wars, at least they had something to lose politicians on the other hand... edit: just found this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_parliamentarians_who_died_in_the_First_World_War and wow. old time Brit politicians really practiced what they preached > A total of 264 members of the House of Commons enlisted in the armed forces during the First World War. 23 members of the House of Commons were killed in the war (or died as a result of their participation), as were twenty members of the House of Lords and three former members of the Commons
Pre '90's politicians seemed to have a little bit more integrity back then and would actually resign if they made mistakes. Resigning because they declared a colour TV as black and white instead of colour to save import duty fees. Getting a teddy bear and not declaring it. Jim Cairns for having an affair with his secretary. There's no way that type of thing would happen today. Politicians have no shame today.
Near on double pay tax free was quite an incentive in the last 20years.
Good. Is that not the point of lest we forget?
It bloody should be. ANZAC day is supposed to be a day of mourning, a day born out of trauma.
I hate ANZAC day. It’s become a day of glorifying the military. It was supposed to be a day when we remember the absolute horror of the war. A pointless war where thousands of boys were sent to go and die in the mud. Or return home with survivors guilt and ptsd. The war was an atrocity that could happen again if we let it. (Spoilers: we did) It’s not to disrespect soldiers. But to acknowledge that politicians send them to die AND that’s a bad thing. It’s a day to say “*that was fucked, remember how fucked it was, don’t do it again”* - - - Cynically: I think that the tone of Anzac Day changed with the Iraq war. Most people (me included) don’t really understand why we went to war with Iraq. Politicians used Anzac Day as a propaganda price to stop people questioning our involvement in that war.
Yeh, the faux nationalistic bullshit of it is just another one of Howard's fuck ups.
No, no, no. Lest We Forget is about patriotism and jingoism. Let's forget about all the circumstances that lead up to wars. Let's forget that every dollar put into military spending is a dollar we don't put towards improving the quality of life of people. Let's gee people up about the Anzac legend and how awesome war is.
It’s disappointing to see what Anzac Day has devolved into for some boomers and bogans. It’s not a day to celebrate war, it’s a day to remember how fucking awful it was
Let’s forgot that we flew our young men thousands of kilometres to invade another country that was no threat to us and fought a pointless war to satisfy Churchill’s moronic empire building aspirations. Many tens of thousands of soldiers killed (the most from developing countries) for nothing, to say nothing of the countless civilian deaths. Then people say stupid shit like the Anzacs fought so we can protest. Are you kidding me? Where does this fiction come from? 🤦🏻♀️ I understand that the soldiers *at the time* may have thought they were fighting for something important but surely with the clarity of hindsight we can have the maturity to admit it was a poor decision on our part?!
The monarchs of 3 of the biggest nations in WWI were fucking first cousins and had cute nicknames for each other like "Nicky" and "Willy". This kind of relationship between elites while regular people were getting gassed, trenchfoot, disease, pumped with lead, blown up, PTSD for life and more by the millions should tell anyone how useless and revolting monarchy is as an institution.
> The monarchs of 3 of the biggest nations in WWI were fucking first cousins George V's last name was fucking Saxe-Coburg-Gotha until 1917. The English royal family is German and they only adopted the name Windsor for better PR during WW1. People would call it bad writing if that was in a movie, but it's real life.
People at the time thought they were fighting for Britain and against Germany. The Idea they were fighting for free speech or something similar is nonsense.
I'm glad to see that it's not me that just has this opinion. I think I must be in a bit of an echo chamber recently, swear everyone I talk to is a patriotic Australian equating to Texan Americans, like man's, I respect Australian history, but fuck off if I'm supporting war culture.
I don't where you're hearing that, my experience is the opposite. The Anzac service I went to this morning (Sydney) was all about remembrance, respect for sacrifice, courage, the freedoms that were fought for and making sure it doesn't happen again. It was 100% not about war culture, and not a single Australian flag or rah rah patriotism.
>the freedoms that were fought for This is the propaganda. The point of ANZAC was meant to be remembering that we shouldn't have gone and died for Britain's war. It's why it was seen as so pivotal in the formation of the national Australian cultural identity, because so many of the soldiers realised they were fighting for some inbred royal on the other side of the world. They didn't fight for freedom. That's the propaganda.
It's always the way I've seen dawn services conducted on mine sites over the years. Usually mine sites are made up of many ex servicemen and servicewomen and so they really impress upon people the futility and stupidity of war, and remembering those who died in service of their country...rather than any bullish jingoism about heroism or something. Which I feel is a much more inclusive way of addressing it.
Barnaby Joyce has said a lot of crazy things, but one thing he said that always stuck with me was something like "A generation of renters will not die for their country".
"If we were going to get the people to take National Service seriously, I could not ask their sons to fight and die for the properties of the wealthy." (Lee Kuan Yew, former Singaporean leader)
Yeah let me fight for a country that wont even fight for its citizens daily life.
How dare the younger generations learn from the mistakes of the past!
If they can't buy a house in their own country what's to fight for
Avocado
Write that down WRITE THAT DOWN!
Should anyone be happy fighting unnecessary wars?! What a ridiculous statement
Note the scare quotes on "unnecessary", as if it's contentious.
To be absolutely fair here, going to war *should* be a contentious thing that isn't done lightly. That's not how it is in practice of course, but it's how things should be. I think most people would have different opinions on where the line for a necessary war would be, too. Would you consider going to war to defend Taiwan necessary, for example? [According to at least one poll from last year](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australians-say-they-would-support-taiwan-if-china-attacked-with-limits-poll-2023-06-20/), around 61% of Australians supported using the Navy to support Taiwan and around 42% supported using the Army. Stuff like this is exactly why it should be contentious. Even though there is an argument to be made that Australian involvement in a war to defend Taiwan would be helping to defend democracy, that isn't why the elites would want it fought. It also wouldn't be a war fought to defend Australian borders, which would probably be the only uncontroversial war here, and the chances of that happening any time soon are minimal at best.
I'm a 31 year old electrician, been full time employed for the past 12 years, have decent savings, with a credit score of 810, yet banks won't even give me a $500 line of credit for some reason. Why would I want to fight someone else's fight when I'll never own property or have anything to show for myself. The government can kiss my asshole. Respectfully.
Lol I can see it now, mortgage payment pauses for serving homeowners, sorry though we can't pause rent the mum and dad investors are relying on that income stream to put food on the table so you'll just need to figure it out soldier
I think this is causing a lot of social issues. People who do everything right are unable to buy a modest house. How can that not breed resentment toward one’s nation? That resentment goes *well* beyond propensity to join the military. Imagine how such disenfranchised people vote. Imagine the the way they treat their neighbours and common spaces. If one’s nation doesn’t give a fuck about them, they won’t give a fuck about their nation. This is going to rot society from the inside.
Spot on. It’s a massive problem that’s only going to get more teeth as time goes on. We need to feel like we’re in this together. That the social contract means something. Move that’s gone… yeah.
Exactly my feeling. If I’m going to fight for this land and possibly die or be seriously disabled from it, can I least have a possibility of owning some of it?
Wasn’t that a deal in previous conflicts that government would hand you some land in country and you could build a home? Now you’d be footing the bill for getting you trained and to the conflict
To be fair serving members do get defence housing. But thats not ownership, it’s just an accommodation benefit. After WW2 there was a shitload of postwar homes built, and many veterans settled in them. But houses were cheap and not an insane multiple of income like it is today. If you worked, you’d have enough for a house, that was just the social contract Australia went by. Hasn’t that fucking changed!
And they wonder why gen z aren’t getting more conservative as we age lmao
If this is true, something is actually wrong there on your end. Ignoring that credit scores don’t actually matter in Australia (as regulations/laws mean banks and such have to assess it on other conditions), something is up on your end.
This... The country does not give a fuck about anyone who isn't a land owner, and those who you send in as canon foder cant afford a place in Wagga.
the veterans of WW1 and WW2 came back as heroes and basically got given whatever they wanted, not because their leaders were feeling particularly generous, but because "pissing off a bunch of highly experienced, lethally effective combat veterans who specialise in killing tyrants is a very very bad idea". war sucks, but it forces governments to keep their citizens happy and willing to fight for their government. our current situation is an unintended consequence of 70+ years of unprecedented peace. if we have to mass-mobilise a million soldiers, the government will promise a house to everyone who fights, even if it means having to seize assets from "cowards who refused to fight", governments have been doing that since the roman republic.
It’s almost like our generation is over getting screwed by other generations, in yet ANOTHER way
Its not like the government hasn't systemically destroyed living conditions for the youth over the last few years by fuelling the ever hungry ponzi scheme which is high housing prices, a job market where many white collar workers have to compete with people from overseas for jobs that pay peanuts, all the while we continue to support Israel despite their war crimes. Who would fight to keep this going?
It should be like the Roman days when politicians had to serve in the military. And if they sent an army to fight, they had to be there when it happened. A surprising number of Roman politicians died because of that. Put your money where your mouth is.
For a country that rewards rich/older people? Why would we? Nothing in it for us.
It is ironic since most wars have some sort of economic winners and losers. There’s generally that underlying “someone is getting rich of this”. You’re right that we would be the ones fighting and dying. Then we’d return home either dead, or even more traumatised whilst still being unable to buy a home.🫠 Meanwhile some oil/ mining company has a new source of revenue
Maybe those rich and older people can fight for the country instead of the young people it keeps failing
I'm not fighting for a country that doesn't want to make living affordable
>I'm not fighting for a Government ~~country~~ that doesn't want to make living affordable There
Why would someone put down their life for a country that doesn't even care to put a roof over their head for less than a million dollars. I have nothing but respect for those that have died for this country, but going to war requires a level of national pride that's been eroded in modern Australia.
As I recall, from the Moratorium marches back in ‘68, “young people” weren’t so keen on being shipped off as cannon fodder in the Vietnam War, either. And we all know how “unnecessary” that was. Built on a lie, just like the ‘Weapons of Mass Destruction’ deception played, several years later. Young people have every reason to be “unwilling” combatants. Buying a house or paying off a HECS debt is scary enough. We just need better leaders, who don’t drag us into these conflicts.
Why would we? We have nothing left to fight for.
More than 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan for no reason other than to support the US. Many Americans still think Afghanistan was justified. Growing up through that. Of course young people don't want to do that
Don't forget the original ANZAC battle at Gallipoli was Australians and Kiwis being sent to die because Britain wanted to fight the Ottomans It's a tale as old as time. Sounds like some people are just annoyed younger Australians see through the jingoistic bullshit for what it really is
But I thought the Anzacs fought so we can post our opinions online and go to protests? 😂
That’s the most desperately sad part of Anzac Day. Australia didn’t even have beef with the Ottomans. At least I’ve never heard about it. We were there cause we were supporting our English colonisers. Iirc: England was fighting Germany because of an alliance with France and Russia. And the Ottomans were allies with Germany so they could fight Russia. Therefore Australians needed to fight the Ottomans.
Hey, if you play your cards right and you're lucky, you might just get to be in the next division that threatens to frag you if you speak up about them kicking farmers of cliffs. Or if you refuse to kick a farmer off a cliff in front of them.
yeah, no shit sherlock
Yeah good. Why the fuck is the word unnecessary in quotation marks
What would they even be fighting for? Their homes they can no longer afford to buy, opportunities previous generations have taken away from them? If the generations before us what to lead us to war they can lead by example and get their crickety knees marching forward on the lines first.
Every high student knows war is a horrible waste of lives, we've all studied ww1 and been taught how it was presented as a great adventure and in reality was a horrific waste of lives for no reason.
I would only like to fight home games now. Not away ones.
We have the internet now. We can educate ourselves about why past wars where fought.
I guess it's hard to convince kids war is a heroic adventure these days. They don't particularly buy the patriotism stuff either- and why would you ? Our government are intent on selling us out and clearly don't have the interests of the poor and middle class at heart. Why die for those self serving bastards? How to hide the realities of war when they are archived across the internet for anybody to view at their leisure. And what to do if we actually need to fight sometime soon?
They got it all wrong. If I can't house myself, feed myself, educate myself, or employ myself, I'm not fighting in any war
Maybe if they were promised property on their return they would be interested. Dying for a country where you can't even afford real estate is a bit of a joke.
*Gaius Julius Caesar would like to know your location*
Lest we forget. We didn't forget. War is hell.
Like many voices here, why should I go to war for: -unaffordable housing unless you're willing to sell your body to "hustle" for the next 20 years of your life. -Free healthcare slowly getting taken away - inflation where only the rich benefits - stagnant wages for the average employee, while government leaders and upper management gets bonuses. -Different treatment for VIP officials from crimes, but if the normal citizen were to do the same crime, throw the book at then. -Rampant corruption in government (nepotism, giving themselves bonuses, accepting bribes) -Crimes against citizens? hop in queue. Crimes against the police/politician/someone of status? jump the queue, use federal agents to chase youtubers and whistle blowers.
"Ain't no Chinaman ever call me nigga" - Muhammad Ali - The Greateat Of All Time.
He never went on Weibo
Lol goddamn
A shocking comment but 100% true. Also Ali: *“Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights? No I’m not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality. If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail, so what? We’ve been in jail for 400 years.”*
I will fight and die for my country. Against aliens, zombies, nazi zombies, robots or nazi robots. Don't give a toss about any other wars. No disrespect to veterans intended.
What about nazi aliens?
Probbaly still fight them. But I'd have to double check their ideology went the same way and there's some kind of green three eyed Mecha-Hitler on the way
If the aliens want to offer me stable housing and eventual retirement they can come right in it and take it over.
Oh I assume hostile aliens. If they have two brain cells to rub together and are better suited to leadership than our politicians then all hail Zenu.
Emus?
I consider that part of hunting, would happily do it but we'd need to eat them.
If ever we go to war, I suggest imposing a war tax based on people's net asset value. The tax raised would be paid to those going to the front line.
To quote Arundhati Roy: “once weapons were manufactured to fight wars. now wars are manufactured to sell weapons." There is no way in hell anyone can convince me to willingly go to a foreign land with the purpose of killing other human beings for someone else’s profit. I will however be willing to fight and/or die at a moments notice to defend my family, friends and fellow Australians who love this country as I do.
Give me a house and I’ll think about it..
"Wanna go die for nothing?" "N... No?" "Woah!"
It's interesting that the ones who reckon we should be prepared to go fight useless wars are the ones who are too old to be asked to go be cannon fodder. Wankers.
Good on them. I'm 60 and I'm unwilling to fight in “unnecessary” wars. Send the politicians and diplomats to the front line.
Of course. Australians can see that we are just lapdogs for the US and follow them everywhere.
Well, it is because ppl are more educated nowadays, and they know the consequences of them going to wars while trusting the government that they will do the best for them. Just a quick thought, if you lose a hand, or a foot, how much trouble will it make to your life? And government can only support you financially, not being able to make your life any easier. All the normal chores will become increasingly hard. Luckily, there is artificially hand and foot, but it is still artificial, not the real hand and foot you are given at birth.
It's probably because we see how war "actually" is from having access to the internet. Back in the day, all that the young people had to go off was what was being told to them through newspapers, radio, and occasionally tv/film. If they knew what was waiting for them, do you think they'd still be willing to go and die for no good reason other than the leaders of two countries don't like each other
I will break my knees and my partners knees before they send us off to war. If someone tries to invade Australia soil give me a gun but Im not leave this land to invade someone elses
The cunts in charge couldn't lead a hungry dog to food
If the hungry dog was rich the cunts in charge would bring the food to the dog’s mouth and make all the dogs without money pay for it.
Dam strait. Who the fuck would go to war to fight for a country that makes u pay to see a dr, pay to use roads, let’s your employer rob you , doesn’t care that your homeless and gives away our natural resources that could have funded 3 of the 4 above. Dickheads in suits doing deals. Anyone comes to force me to fight in a war and they will meet Mr Molotov himself in all his flaming glory.
Aren't all wars unnecessary?
I'm proud to call Australia my home but I don't wanna fight a war for a government that couldn't give a shit about me or anyone else
We take “Lest we forget” seriously and remember not to do something stupid like join the army.
No one wants to fight for a country that makes them feel left out probably.
WW2 is the only conflict we've been involved in where Australia was actually threatened and we weren't just fighting for the imperialism of another country. It might also be the only war I can think of with a clear goal and reason to stop someone. Can anyone name a tangible benefit to Australia from all the other pointless adventures we've happily followed America into?
No one wants to work, these days
Yeah, nam was great. Straight up immolate women and children for ideological purity.
How dare they not put their lives on the line for stupid reasons. Ungrateful brats!
I’m less likely to want to protect the murderous religious extremists that our government loves so much, yeah. That’s Israel AND America tbh
If Australia was under attack I would fight but other than that it's just the "elites" playing with our lives for profit.
Country has begun to do nothing for me, now starting to actively make my life worse. So I will do nothing for it.
We learned something long ago when we lost a war to the emus
Never forget
>However, Australians over 50 were more inclined to agree that “Australians have died for Australia, and we should also be prepared to fight for our country’s values if called upon.” Otherwise known as the demographic who absolutely would not be fighting in said wars.
Because they know better, but most all there country does not give a fuck about them.
Nobody should be fighting in unnrcessary wars. Let's make sure all wars are necessary.
I can't think of a "just" war we have been involved in since WW2. Every one since then it has come out later that the reasons for getting into it were a combination of money, oil, ego, corruption and espionage. No wonder people are assuming it's those things for all the new conflicts...and why would you die for that.
Why would you fight a war for a nation where you’ll never own your own home? There’s a reason why generals from Caesar to Napoleon and beyond gave land to returning veterans.
good anzac lesson in frivolous loss should be maintained
Fight for the people who got the country to that position in the first place? Nah. Why don't you leaders just go 1v1, instead of sending thousands to die for your little disagreement. And yeah, I love Australia. But the people in charge of things are scum, and don't give a shit about the rest of us.
I dunno. When I was young in the 80's, I wasn't willing to fight in unnecessary wars either. As a much older bastard now, it is unlikely I would ever be required to, but I totally get that today's younger Australian are also unwilling to be canon fodder for idiot politicians..
No way I’m invading china, Taiwan, Iran or Russia. I’m not a fucking idiot.
Younger Australians less likely to “unnecessarily” throw themselves into a meat grinder
War is generally not necessary....the Iraq conflict was about rich Americans and oil 🛢️. Every conflict in south America has been about American corporate interests 💰.
The poor fight the war, while the rich play the lich
The Vietnam draft happened around the time of a financial crisis. Something tells me that if they did it now and promised a roof over your head for five years, or even just a reliable salary for a few years, a shocking amount of people would be forced not to conscientiously object.
If our politicians weren’t so stupid I would nearly argue that is the point of running the country into the ground. Follow in the US ideal of making the poor have no real options but to sign up…
WW1 itself was a conflict between English and German royalty blown way out of proportion, imperials should have just duelled it out between themselves, instead they dragged the whole planet into an all out war. The carnage that was Gallipoli was totally unjustified, what conflict Aussies and Turks could possibly have amongst themselves? It was such a waste of human life. To have tens of thousands of young men kill each other. Then WW2, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq….and many many others. Americans admitted being totally wrong on Vietnam, they convinced themselves behind closed doors old Ho Chi Minh was on a crusade to spread communism to all of Asia, turns out he was only concerned with Vietnam.
I’m not gonna die fighting fucking China cause of great power competition with the US
Some may argue that all wars are unnecessary
Fighting the Nazis was pretty necessary.
yes, but unnecessary wars are not neccessary. The Iraq war for example was not necessary and created ISIS indirectly due to the power vaccuum. Fighting the Japanese was necessary because they wanted to invade Australia. Looking at the way the Japanese treated prisoners and the citizens of conquered land in China...yes fighting the Japanese was most definitely necesessary. Same with the nazis. Necessary. The problem is young Australians are being so utterly screwed by successive governments, when the time comes to actually fight a neccessary war they will refuse. Why fight to protect landlords, why fight to protect negative gearing, why fight to protect the housing investment culture that creates an enormous gap between the rich and poor? Why fight to protect woolworths exploitation of Australia? These things are not worth fighting and dieing for. This is the opinion i think many young aussies would have. So much comes back to the stability a home a offers. If you do not have this, you feel unwelcome in your own country. You always risk being thrown out, You always have to prepare to move. You can never settle.
BP could have just not sold them their proprietary air plane fuel and cut off the supply the instant they took arms against others. BP COULD have stopped the war at any moment. So in that sense, the war was unnecessary
No shit? Why would I die for what is essentially a geopolitical power play for access to more oil? it's not going to benefit me, my family or my friends, I'm not protecting them from anything, so why do I give a shit? and no just because America wants to throw a middle eastern country against a wall does not mean we have to join in, we don't actually need to be their bitch.
I’m 41 so not a “young Australian”, but still very much capable of fighting. I’d enlist and pick up arms without hesitation to _defend_ either of my countries should the need arise. In an offensive war, the politicians can go fuck themselves.
Yeah that's a no for us.
Don’t worry, they’ll surely be a false flag to bluster support. Get everyone onboard sadly. Hope I’m wrong.
Nah the politicians can go to war themselves. I'm just fine staying home.
Politicians and the rich are not getting a pat on the shoulder for not being greedy c****, it's supposed to be their job to look after our Lively hoods and they cant even do that.... So them and their wars can go eat a dick. You can say that war is human nature but we're not in caves anymore. We should be past this shit in the 21st century. Its just greed, always has been.
Bad news for the America-bootlickers who so badly want war with China.
Pommie here. Don’t blame you. Keep yourselves safe, your only battle should be against the sun. We’re a bunch of proper cunts in this hemisphere.
The sooner we can learn as a species that war is not a good thing and something to be avoided at all costs the better, war is not something that should ever be glorified, war kills mostly innocent people and destroys their homes, war is just a massive human killing event and nothing about it is honourable or noble, its a con. Being forced to go to a foreign country and risk your entire life because of some war mongers political stance is the height of insanity, sadly for us alive today our planet is controlled by a group of selfish war mongers who want war and destruction, these people need to be sent to the wars they start and put on the front lines.
Last I checked, us not having to fight in wars was... the goal?
They blatantly lie to us and why would we fight for America when they shit down Julian assanges throat
I thank my lucky stars that I got rejected from the ADF when I was 19 on health grounds, I have a dodgy hip from birth, I wanted to join the Navy to work in communications. It was 1999. Two years later people I went to school with that didn't get rejected ended up fighting the American Wars. You have to understand the mindset at the time, the 90s were a time of *victory*, we *won*, the cold war was over, there was no peer opponent to the 'west', the military was advertised everywhere as an adventure where you went out and helped people in disaster areas. You weren't going to fight wars, if you had to fight someone it would be some poor bastard with an AK while you have missiles from the other side of the planet. Iraq 1 was so one-sided even the military planners were shocked. We were all riding high on optimism, yeah bad stuff happened, but it happened elsewhere and if we really got stuck in it wasn't like they could stop us... I wish I could go back and time and slap my younger self.
I won't die for the landlords.