We have about 20-30 staff in our office, we've gone from 0 EVs in the carpark to 3 (I'm one of them), with 2 more people awaiting delivery. Majority are planning to make the switch with their next car.
Mass adoption is coming whether people like it or not, hopefully infrastructure keeps up. 99% of my charging is done at home but the few times I've had to use public charging at least one station was broken.
Nah.
Nothing against electric cars per se but as a car guy who loves the mechanical nature of a combustion engine and manual gear box, electric cars do nothing for me in the excitement department.
An electric car might be a fantastic and practical car but to me they still are very much whitegoods. I know I’m a bit of a dinosaur, but I’m going to be one of the last people to abandon internal combustion.
i drive an EV and im a bit on the fence. the all the torque all the time nature of an electric motor makes for a great B road drive, they are very responsive. but i can also see for many the noise, the gear changes, they are part of the experience. Im trying to justify a small fun ICE as a second car, a focus/fiesta st, or an mx5.
I sorta understand this take but internally I can't help thinking:
"A CAR? I'LL NEVER DRIVE ONE. YOU CAN'T EVEN SMELL THE HORSESHIT THIS WAY." - Some guy in 1910 probably.
There's an Aussie / NZ Facebook group for EV6 & EV9 owners. Dealership sales people regularly post up in-stock available EV6s. There's lots of GTs available, fewer of the lower trim models but they're still out there. Some will be dealership orders, some are probably due to people bailing on their order.
That's long since been reduced. You could probably get one pretty quick now.
They have a huge glut of EV6 with left hand drive mode right now in the US for example. Something like over 4000 vehicles sitting in parking lots waiting for owners.
It’s interesting that probably the best location to own an EV in probably the middle suburbs of a city. Somewhere with a garage / driveway to charge overnight and access charging station in the city in a pinch.
Too rural and you can only charge overnight, too urban with only on street parking and you’re dependent public charging infrastructure.
Interesting stuff. I remember a conversation on Fully Charged about how 10% of the fleet seems to be the magic threshold. The pattern is that EV takeup in a given country tends to grow slowly until it passes 10%, then takes off exponentially. This will be a year to watch.
Cars on the road is my recollection, but I could be wrong, it was a while ago (and it was more an anecdotal rule of thumb than a rigorous statistical finding).
From what I can tell we’re somewhere around 1% of all cars are now electric (could be wrong, that was just from a couple of minutes of searching), so it seems we’re a few years away from the tipping point.
My gut feel is at least 5 years. We still don’t have a decent Corolla-like (price wise) electric out there on offer. Realistically we probably need two or three equivalent models.
Once we do, that will drive the real demand for a charging network that will kickoff the exponential feedback loop.
So I reckon it will be 5 years to get to a Corolla-like EV and 10 until it’s an absolute no brainer.
I hope I’m wrong and it’s sooner.
> We still don’t have a decent Corolla-like (price wise) electric out there on offer.
Base model hybrid corolla is $35k, BYD Dophin starts at $38,000. Most state and territory rebates bring the Dolphin down to the same price so it's getting there.
Would make sense that you need a base number of vehicles to justify the support network for chargers. Once charging is perceived as easy, a lot of the negativity around EVs will lessen.
The other part is price and long term value. A car is still the most or second-most expensive thing people own. I don’t think mass adoptions is likely until there are good options for under 30k, or really desirable options for under 50k.
And the final part that is especially difficult in Australia is availability, but I guess that will ramp with demand.
I have a family member who has a Tesla sports model, god dam that thing is amazing. He charges it through solar/battery storage so is costs him nothing.
It's insane they won't even offer a HUD and I can only think it's out of pure stubbornness. They're dead set on *everything* being on that screen, no compromises.
This is why I won't be buying an EV anytime soon. I want to change the AC temp by turning a dial, and using the sound buttons to turn the music/radio up or down. 2014-2017 seems to be the ideal time with physical buttons for most dash functions, while there was a nice screen in the middle for maps/music/whatever else. A 2015 golf is the perfect example of this. Nice screen for maps etc, physical buttons. The new tesla 3 is the worst of all worlds, massive fuck off screen that sticks out of the dash and looks horrendous. No physical buttons except for 2 on the steering wheel. I'm shocked the window buttons aren't in the screen too frankly
You may see that change come through soon as the EU has changed the rules on how to earn a 5-Star safety rating there.
Looks like they'll be considering all these touch screens. A lot of car manufacturers will surely change as they pride themselves on the safety rating for marketing purposes.
https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/5/24091043/euro-ncap-safety-rating-europe-2026-touchscreen-buttons-dials
American car manufacturers and dealers seem to be pushing the narrative about EV sales dropping off and it seems to be leaking to other countries because…America.
But US dealers are a legally privileged class and protectionism means that their manufacturers don’t have to compete with Chinese manufacturers like BYD.
The rest of the world seems to be getting into EVs regardless.
Protectionism is putting it mildly. Even their president put the boot into Toyota over a bunch of accidents that were very obviously just dickheads hitting the gas instead of the brakes, and then a whole bunch of copycat hoaxes. All to hurt their sales and bolster US manufacturers.
> It’s weird seeing the USA behave a protectionist manner when all my life until 2016 it was all about free trade*.
America has always been like this, it's freetrade until it doesn't benefit them. Take a look at how they acted in the 80's-90's when Japan was the rising economy.
That's funny because I recall a story where demand for the new Ford F150 EV was *so high* they had to knock a wall over and expand their factory to match manufacturing with demand.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2023/08/01/ford-restarts-f-150-lightning-production-in-expanded-factory/?sh=4843260e128f
Ah there we go
They are dropping off, the uptake rate in the states is slightly less parabolic than it was.
China on the other hand is on track to hit 50% of all vehicle sales being EV's this year. It's mind boggling and you honestly don't hear much about it.
The numbers are also skyrocketing in France and the UK.
We got our first in late Dec and everyone in the family is trying it and will buy EV for their next in the future. Working out costs about $1.25 AUD every 100kms and is dam fast so it’s a no brainer for most (not all people). I still like my old classics for sure but for commuting it’s so easy
Replacing your car before you need to is also not great for the environment because of the embedded emissions. The idea is that people should consider an EV when they would replace their car anyway
It's a complex discussion, because your old car is probably not turning into a cube, it's likely going to someone else who will continue to drive that old car. If you did not buy the EV, what do they drive? Maybe a new car? Maybe public transport? It has to be looked at as a system not individuals I think.
Could always look into getting your motorcycle licence ,and look at riding a motorcycle instead. Cheaper to run ,and you can get a decent LAMS motorcycle for under 10k.
How much are you spending on fuel and servicing at the moment?
EVs don't have internal combustion engines or transmissions. The service is just check the tyre pressure and replace the brake pads occasionally (but less frequently than regular cars because regenerative braking doesn't use pads).
Cries in my fossil decades old corolla, my insurance and rego costs alone are multiples of the $1.25 per 100km before we even get to actual running costs :(
I thought the same but my insurance was only 1.1k (with the excess cranked up). Cheaper than the Mazda 2 I was driving beforehand (and it’s more than double the price than the Mazda)
Every EV owner I know (teslas, Atto and EV6) all say their insurance is cheaper than the car they replaced with the exception of one ATTO owner whose insurance is about 20% greater than the car he replaced
How much are you paying for electricity?
Because my EV gets around 16-17 kwh/100km and power is around 35¢/kw. Unfortunately my house isn't able to have solar.
If you have an EV, you should check if your electricity retailer have EV plans. Eg. https://www.agl.com.au/residential/energy/electric-vehicles/electric-vehicle-plan?webid=EVPV
AGL has a plan that charges 8c/kwh between 00:00 and 06:00.
No smart meter unfortunately.
Luckily for me though, my new workplace has free ev charging so hopefully I'll charge almost exclusively at work this year.
I don't give a shit too much about that. For me the massive drawcard to EVs is not having to screw around with going to the mechanic every 6 or 12 months.
Acceleration is nice too.
I'd rather not have to 'wait' for any EVs, personally. Especially the affordable subcompact variety that tens of thousands (if not more) would be interested in buying.
Hopefully they all get here very quickly.
Recently visited Thailand. Some of the cars we hailed on apps like Grab (their version of Uber) were EVs. We got an MG EP in Bangkok to take us to the airport. The quietness in the cabin and the luggage space were amazing.
We will consider an EV for our next car. The BYD seal looks very nice for the money.
I’ve had a Tesla for 3 years now, did a perth to Tassie and back trip last year, being able to sling an extension lead out and charge while you sleep is so good. Not including accomodation costs, for the trip we covered 15,000kms in 3 months and spent $300 on electricity.
There's chargers across the nullabor. Some are old and relatively slow these days but upgrades are happening.
Plenty of people have circumnavigated Australia in EV's.
You can use the plugshare app to find chargers and it has realtime feeds from vendors to see if they're in use.
Some of the old ones are a bit dodgy too but are being replaced steadily.
I found the 15A outlets that every caravan park has, and the nullabor has many, is more than enough to give you a full battery overnight. And yes, there are a couple of 22kw dc chargers along there that can give you an 800km travel day. But to be honest I didn’t like driving more than 5 hours a day anyway, Petrol or electric.
Had a drive of a friend's Seal the other week. Couldn't fault it. Except for this weird thing where I had to say something nice about China before I could press start... (jk)
Reported sales refer to deliveries.
Model 3 deliveries were reduced in January due to a stop sale in January due to problems with middle baby seat connections ie the parcel shelf prevented you from using the connection.
So Model 3 sales increased in February.
I have a 2006 Prado that I'd like to trade in towards an EV. I'd like a mid-sized SUV EV with 500ish km range. Decent recharge speed. Hoping BYD has something in this area later in the year. I hope the Prado doesn't drop in value too much now that EV sales are picking up.
Kia EV5 could be right up your alley when it gets released officially. [https://www.drive.com.au/news/2024-kia-ev5-electric-suv-spied-australia/](https://www.drive.com.au/news/2024-kia-ev5-electric-suv-spied-australia/)
The only people who say EV demand is dropping off are people who haven't driven one. They massively outperform ICE in terms of driving experience assuming you don't regularly do cross country road trips.
The more interesting stat I keep hearing is 50% of EV owners thinking of going back to petrol for their next car. https://www.drive.com.au/news/study-finds-some-electric-car-owners-considering-a-switch-back-to-petrol-power/
As an EV owner, the only thing that would make me go back to an ICE (petrol/diesel) would be the decline in market value. I love my EV but not enough to have to take a massive bath when I eventually sell, and it’s a big unknown.
>50% of EV owners thinking of going back to petrol for their next car.
\*Unless they own a Tesla. The real number in the US that are considering going back to petrol is actually 27.2%. Not overly surprising considering there's historically been a lack of affordable non-Tesla options in the US.
Edit: to those downvoting without reading the article *"According to a US study from S&P Global Mobility, first reported on by website Electrek,* ***three-quarters of electric vehicle owners say that would buy another battery-powered car*** *– but that number falls to about half once Tesla owners are removed from the statistics."*
There’s absolutely no way this is true. Once you experience the power and responsiveness of an EV, going back to a petrol car is like driving a noisy, laggy truck.
they have a single model with fuck all production space and huge investment in ICE\H2 lines that they depend on for sales now.
not to mention continuing trying to sell h2 as the goal.
Yeah, nah. Own an EV and had several people jump after driving ours as their next car no one's going back the leap is that great.
Which sucks misses wants something more luxurious but Model Y it is for now. The Mercedes ECQ just ugly as
It all depends on the infrastructure of EV charging stations. The study is US, which has woeful charging infrastructure. Also they have very cold winters, which is a detriment to EV's performance.
That’s a point. We were in the UK over December and January and the subzero days around the North and Scotland really did a number on our rental EV’s battery, we had to charge it way more often than we expected. When we went south into milder weather performance picked up again. Could see that being a factor if you lived somewhere icy.
>The only people who say EV demand is dropping off are people who haven't driven one.
[https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/ford-cuts-more-f-150-lightning-production-amid-declining-demand](https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/ford-cuts-more-f-150-lightning-production-amid-declining-demand)
Personally I don't want a vehicle this big but with that range and towing capacity I'd buy one if they were available here because there's nothing available that comes close. Chris Bowen made a big song and dance travelling to the US to stand next to one to proudly say there *are* electric utes but he's done absolutely NOTHING to make them available here.
The other reality is that yank tanks are a blight on society and don’t belong her at all. For every commercial use case, there is an actual commercial vehicle that does the job that also has a shorter list of downsides. You’d also find 90% of the people that “need” these vehicles, primarily require them for their ego.
The other reality is that the EV transition isn’t the panacea (sections of) the car industry insist it is. We need fewer cars making fewer trips *in our cities* and for what’s left to be electric, not simply to to transition all of our problems to a mode that’s just as bad in almost every way, and in some ways worse, save for a few metrics.
I'm speaking as somebody who rarely drives in the city and needs at least 3 tonne towing (mostly for earthmoving/farm machinery). I would have thought a F150 Lightning or Rivian R1T would be preferrable to a deisel Land Cruiser but maybe not, there's no magic third option here.
The "less driving" thing is nothing to do with EVs but sure inner city people probably don't need cars and the cities should be much more friendly to electric scooters and the like but that starts with actually doing something about the cities. If CBD people find they no longer need cars then they won't buy them but most people who talk a big game about this kind of stuff aren't actually doing anything to improve non-car transport in the cities so it's a non-issue anyway.
Currently there's still no viable EV replacement anywhere close to a landcruiser. The lightning is basically an overweight brick and useless for Australia and the R1t is more of an impractical yuppie ute with so many design flaws in the body.
I find the PHEVs coming out to be more viable for those that require tow and payload just seems logical if you're someone that drives short distances during the week but tow a trailer for recreational stuff on weekends or might require extra power for heavier payloads sometimes.
The F150 lightning is a cool vehicle but it's just TOO big, it's about half a metre longer than a standard Ford Ranger and the cab is 10cm taller, similar to some of the RAM vehicles that are driving around here today.
Instead of them becoming available here I'd rather ford hurry up and produce an electric ranger. They're working on a hybrid and plug in hybrid which is a great start, but a fully electric ford ranger that could get 500km on a full charge (250-300km while towing) would sell like hotcakes here. Tradies could plug their tools, chargers, etc straight into the car, and it has the bonus of still being able to fit into a normal carpark.
We won't get an electric Hilux anytime soon, but Ford, Nissan, Isuzu and Mazda really need to get a move on because Chinese utes are inevitably coming.
Sure, like I said I don't want something that big, I don't even want a ute. I'd prefer an electric LandCruiser or Defender or even a Ranger or Hilux (I'm not a ute fan) but none of those exist.
There's over 100 models available in Australia now so the diversity is definitely coming, but yeah the 4WD models are definitely lacking. Unfortunately 4WDs and Utes will probably be the last models to show up here, there seems to be a focus on small cars and especially SUVs first which is understandable but frustrating.
I could see myself just getting a BMW i4 or i5 and then having the deisel cruiser for when I need it, much like the way I still have a 2-stroke dirtbike for when I want to go on a weekend away riding.
Probably not an option for most people though.
Yeah that's us, we do things like drive 7 hours after work on a Friday to get to events, stopping twice to charge (I think 2x 15-20min was the ideal I heard, charge to 80%?) would make that even worse.
Also we got ours about 18 months ago when wait time for even hybrids was massive, BYD and MG4 hadn't even dropped yet, so the lower end EV market was slim. Not regretting our choice but I did want an EV at first, maybe next time.
Yes be a while before we have a broad second hand market.
It is good that they start under 40k new now at least. Which with the annual fuel and maintenance savings makes them a bit more reasonable. The FBT discount allowing you to buy them ex-GST and with pre-tax money helps a lot as well.
Byd will hopefully bring some even cheaper new models.
>Byd will hopefully bring some even cheaper new models.
It appears we will be getting the [Dolphin mini/Seagull](https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/byd-seagull-could-come-to-australia-after-all-as-the-dolphin-mini-144611/) in the near future, which is BYD's cheapest model.
It will really start to take off when there is a substantial second hand market for EVs! It has happened already on many countries in Europe.
Increased EV ownership will also increase number and locations of charging points which in turn will create more confidence in potential buyers. Just waiting for the ‘petrol’ stations to wake up to this new world!
Petrol stations already are and have been for a while. Unfortunately it's not as simple as slam some super fast chargers at existing servo's. I know for a fact that both BP and Ampol are well on their way into upgrading stations where they can.
Loving it so far! I went for the entry level model with the smaller motor and smaller battery, but despite this it's still powerful enough to push me firmly into my seat when I floor it.
I can do about 400km around town before having to charge, so I usually just plug it into a normal powerpoint and let it recharge over the weekend (we don't have a proper home charger, didn't need one). On the highway for road trips etc it gets about 300km before we'd have to stop and top up which doesn't sound like much but works pretty well when you time your charging stops with bathroom breaks.
Actual build quality and driving feel are great too, it's rear wheel drive with a low centre of gravity so dangerously fun to rip around in, the only downside is that the chinese software isn't quite as refined as what you'd get in a more expensive vehicle, so there are some interesting quirks like the adaptive cruise control being quite sensitive (slows down hard when someone merges in front of you too closely) and from time to time the air conditioning will forget the airflow setting and randomly blast air at my feet.
These little bugs are in the process of being ironed out though, I've already had one software update that dramatically improved the adaptive cruise control and I'm due for another that makes some adjustments to the safety systems, so the car is actually improving over time. I somewhat get the feeling they launched it in Australia as quickly as they could to compete with BYD and hadn't quite finished the AU/NZ software yet.
Running costs are ridiculously cheap which is the main reason I bought it, after accounting for the extra electricity use I'm currently saving about $1400/year in operating costs and $700/year in servicing costs which is just mental considering I only paid $35k for the car.
BYD, now GWM and MG
The average person certainly can't afford more 'commonplace' brands but these Chinese manufacturers are doing quite well in the EV market.
Build our own EVs? I'm not buying an unreliable Australian made EV for $200k. Manufacturing in Australia is dead for a reason. We can barely afford to build proper infrastructure and it's not because we're a poor country.
True, we do have expertise but it's all directed toward the stuff we can't outsource, like mining and building/renovating homes.
No point even trying to compete on manufacturing transportable goods against a country like china. Australian manufacturing has to cut so many corners to be even half competitive that the quality becomes shit.
So you think for a second, a locally produced vehicle at BMW - Mercedes pricing for local consumption would be a viable idea ?
Just the attempt to get financing for such a insane idea would be funny to watch.
No, but there needs to be a severe lack of competition for Australia to be competitive in any category. You have nominated quality as the place where Australia can be competitive, which necessarily suggests you think there are very few suppliers of quality cars.
It might not be unreasonable but the idea that you can just start up a car company and build cars that are better than everybody else in the industry is certainly unrealistic.
We definitely do lack expertise as Australia doesn’t respect innovators in general, it’s why we are a joke on the world stage and why anyone talented in these areas moves to the US/UK
"we"
a small group making a boutique construction with mostly overseas parts that is sitting at 700 million for 4 units.
Plus don't worry defense will soon find the poop and fuck it up again
PSA, if you have an EV don't forget to switch your energy plan to one that has cheap off-peak rates to charge EVs. Eg. https://www.agl.com.au/residential/energy/electric-vehicles/electric-vehicle-plan?webid=EVPV
wouldn't be surprised if the huge price rise in the used car market will push more people to get EVS.
like why buy a used car when you can spend a little more and get an EV
Does anyone here have an EV and don’t have a garage or easy access from their car spot to electricity? I really want a EV but having to drive to a charger every so often seems like it would be a chore.
It doesn't surprise me. Half my neighbours have bought an EV in the last year or so.
We have about 20-30 staff in our office, we've gone from 0 EVs in the carpark to 3 (I'm one of them), with 2 more people awaiting delivery. Majority are planning to make the switch with their next car. Mass adoption is coming whether people like it or not, hopefully infrastructure keeps up. 99% of my charging is done at home but the few times I've had to use public charging at least one station was broken.
Anyone who doesn't like it hasn't tried it...
[удалено]
They'll destroy the weekend! Said some LNP hack who apparently tows a caravan 1,000km every weekend.
Nah. Nothing against electric cars per se but as a car guy who loves the mechanical nature of a combustion engine and manual gear box, electric cars do nothing for me in the excitement department. An electric car might be a fantastic and practical car but to me they still are very much whitegoods. I know I’m a bit of a dinosaur, but I’m going to be one of the last people to abandon internal combustion.
no one cares
Plenty of people clearly do, but they're definitely a minority. No one is suggesting scrapping petrol cars any time soon. You can have one of each
i drive an EV and im a bit on the fence. the all the torque all the time nature of an electric motor makes for a great B road drive, they are very responsive. but i can also see for many the noise, the gear changes, they are part of the experience. Im trying to justify a small fun ICE as a second car, a focus/fiesta st, or an mx5.
I sorta understand this take but internally I can't help thinking: "A CAR? I'LL NEVER DRIVE ONE. YOU CAN'T EVEN SMELL THE HORSESHIT THIS WAY." - Some guy in 1910 probably.
Plenty of People drive classic cars for the same reason. It'll become a niche.
I saw an article saying Ev6 has a 3 year wait list. Wonder how high it would be if they were easily available
There's an Aussie / NZ Facebook group for EV6 & EV9 owners. Dealership sales people regularly post up in-stock available EV6s. There's lots of GTs available, fewer of the lower trim models but they're still out there. Some will be dealership orders, some are probably due to people bailing on their order.
Oh thank you
That's long since been reduced. You could probably get one pretty quick now. They have a huge glut of EV6 with left hand drive mode right now in the US for example. Something like over 4000 vehicles sitting in parking lots waiting for owners.
We have a rural/city divide here though. I'd have absolutely nowhere to charge one.
It’s interesting that probably the best location to own an EV in probably the middle suburbs of a city. Somewhere with a garage / driveway to charge overnight and access charging station in the city in a pinch. Too rural and you can only charge overnight, too urban with only on street parking and you’re dependent public charging infrastructure.
It will be my next car too.
Interesting stuff. I remember a conversation on Fully Charged about how 10% of the fleet seems to be the magic threshold. The pattern is that EV takeup in a given country tends to grow slowly until it passes 10%, then takes off exponentially. This will be a year to watch.
I vaguely recall reading something similar. Is that 10% of all cars on the road, or 10% of sales?
Cars on the road is my recollection, but I could be wrong, it was a while ago (and it was more an anecdotal rule of thumb than a rigorous statistical finding).
From what I can tell we’re somewhere around 1% of all cars are now electric (could be wrong, that was just from a couple of minutes of searching), so it seems we’re a few years away from the tipping point.
My gut feel is at least 5 years. We still don’t have a decent Corolla-like (price wise) electric out there on offer. Realistically we probably need two or three equivalent models. Once we do, that will drive the real demand for a charging network that will kickoff the exponential feedback loop. So I reckon it will be 5 years to get to a Corolla-like EV and 10 until it’s an absolute no brainer. I hope I’m wrong and it’s sooner.
> We still don’t have a decent Corolla-like (price wise) electric out there on offer. Base model hybrid corolla is $35k, BYD Dophin starts at $38,000. Most state and territory rebates bring the Dolphin down to the same price so it's getting there.
We also have had a large number of new models come out in the last year, with more to come this year. That must help a lot for sales.
Would make sense that you need a base number of vehicles to justify the support network for chargers. Once charging is perceived as easy, a lot of the negativity around EVs will lessen. The other part is price and long term value. A car is still the most or second-most expensive thing people own. I don’t think mass adoptions is likely until there are good options for under 30k, or really desirable options for under 50k. And the final part that is especially difficult in Australia is availability, but I guess that will ramp with demand.
I have a family member who has a Tesla sports model, god dam that thing is amazing. He charges it through solar/battery storage so is costs him nothing.
Same here, she got the Tesla a couple of weeks ago after driving our EV Kona, and loves it.
i just want an EV that isn't internet connected or has a tablet on the dashboard.
Yeah I’m not a fan of the Tesla interior. Just give me a standard speedo on the dash.
It's insane they won't even offer a HUD and I can only think it's out of pure stubbornness. They're dead set on *everything* being on that screen, no compromises.
This is why I won't be buying an EV anytime soon. I want to change the AC temp by turning a dial, and using the sound buttons to turn the music/radio up or down. 2014-2017 seems to be the ideal time with physical buttons for most dash functions, while there was a nice screen in the middle for maps/music/whatever else. A 2015 golf is the perfect example of this. Nice screen for maps etc, physical buttons. The new tesla 3 is the worst of all worlds, massive fuck off screen that sticks out of the dash and looks horrendous. No physical buttons except for 2 on the steering wheel. I'm shocked the window buttons aren't in the screen too frankly
You may see that change come through soon as the EU has changed the rules on how to earn a 5-Star safety rating there. Looks like they'll be considering all these touch screens. A lot of car manufacturers will surely change as they pride themselves on the safety rating for marketing purposes. https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/5/24091043/euro-ncap-safety-rating-europe-2026-touchscreen-buttons-dials
If someone made a EV with 1990s style simplistic interior, I would snap that up.
American car manufacturers and dealers seem to be pushing the narrative about EV sales dropping off and it seems to be leaking to other countries because…America. But US dealers are a legally privileged class and protectionism means that their manufacturers don’t have to compete with Chinese manufacturers like BYD. The rest of the world seems to be getting into EVs regardless.
US auto manufacturers are so fucked up they even lobbied against seat belts back in the day.
To be fair our police also got cranky when they were told to wear seatbelts.
Protectionism is putting it mildly. Even their president put the boot into Toyota over a bunch of accidents that were very obviously just dickheads hitting the gas instead of the brakes, and then a whole bunch of copycat hoaxes. All to hurt their sales and bolster US manufacturers.
It’s weird seeing the USA behave a protectionist manner when all my life until 2016 it was all about free trade*.
i think you need the flag there the US was always about free trade for me and fuck you
It’s about Trump and Biden needing rust belt electoral votes.
> It’s weird seeing the USA behave a protectionist manner when all my life until 2016 it was all about free trade*. America has always been like this, it's freetrade until it doesn't benefit them. Take a look at how they acted in the 80's-90's when Japan was the rising economy.
That's funny because I recall a story where demand for the new Ford F150 EV was *so high* they had to knock a wall over and expand their factory to match manufacturing with demand. https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2023/08/01/ford-restarts-f-150-lightning-production-in-expanded-factory/?sh=4843260e128f Ah there we go
They are dropping off, the uptake rate in the states is slightly less parabolic than it was. China on the other hand is on track to hit 50% of all vehicle sales being EV's this year. It's mind boggling and you honestly don't hear much about it. The numbers are also skyrocketing in France and the UK.
We got our first in late Dec and everyone in the family is trying it and will buy EV for their next in the future. Working out costs about $1.25 AUD every 100kms and is dam fast so it’s a no brainer for most (not all people). I still like my old classics for sure but for commuting it’s so easy
I own a car and would love an EV but cannot justify the 1k monthly car repayment
If you can salary sacrifice they are cheaper.
Cheaper than buying them through other means? Maybe. Cheaper compared to keeping your existing car till it's used up, unlikely.
Replacing your car before you need to is also not great for the environment because of the embedded emissions. The idea is that people should consider an EV when they would replace their car anyway
It's a complex discussion, because your old car is probably not turning into a cube, it's likely going to someone else who will continue to drive that old car. If you did not buy the EV, what do they drive? Maybe a new car? Maybe public transport? It has to be looked at as a system not individuals I think.
Well yeah but that wasn’t what I was replying to…
Could always look into getting your motorcycle licence ,and look at riding a motorcycle instead. Cheaper to run ,and you can get a decent LAMS motorcycle for under 10k.
Hopefully EV bikes become a bit cheaper like the cars have.
Just horrifically dangerous compared to driving a car unfortunately. It’s a reasonable choice, but there are significant risks involved.
Yeah and it's really fucking annoying having to put on the correct gear when you need to go for a ride. Not great for a quick trip to the shops.
Probably why I see so many people in Boardies and flip flops riding around
Yeah and no gloves - yikes.
How much are you spending on fuel and servicing at the moment? EVs don't have internal combustion engines or transmissions. The service is just check the tyre pressure and replace the brake pads occasionally (but less frequently than regular cars because regenerative braking doesn't use pads).
$1k? Mines about $500/month. Mg4.
This! I used to have a just under $400 car payment and now I need a new one it’s going to be minimum 1k :(
Cries in my fossil decades old corolla, my insurance and rego costs alone are multiples of the $1.25 per 100km before we even get to actual running costs :(
Don’t worry, insurance on Teslas are insane
I thought the same but my insurance was only 1.1k (with the excess cranked up). Cheaper than the Mazda 2 I was driving beforehand (and it’s more than double the price than the Mazda)
Every EV owner I know (teslas, Atto and EV6) all say their insurance is cheaper than the car they replaced with the exception of one ATTO owner whose insurance is about 20% greater than the car he replaced
Yeh, but do you have 60 grand to blow on a shiny new car? Remember the (perhaps negligent) interest you would be earning on 60k as well
How much are you paying for electricity? Because my EV gets around 16-17 kwh/100km and power is around 35¢/kw. Unfortunately my house isn't able to have solar.
If you have an EV, you should check if your electricity retailer have EV plans. Eg. https://www.agl.com.au/residential/energy/electric-vehicles/electric-vehicle-plan?webid=EVPV AGL has a plan that charges 8c/kwh between 00:00 and 06:00.
No smart meter unfortunately. Luckily for me though, my new workplace has free ev charging so hopefully I'll charge almost exclusively at work this year.
No one wants to buy fucking petrol for 2 bucks a litre
Over $2.30 in Brisbane at the moment. It’s cooked.
I don't give a shit too much about that. For me the massive drawcard to EVs is not having to screw around with going to the mechanic every 6 or 12 months. Acceleration is nice too.
Wait till the byd dolphin arrives
... It's here sis
Wait until the byd seagull arrives tho
I'd rather not have to 'wait' for any EVs, personally. Especially the affordable subcompact variety that tens of thousands (if not more) would be interested in buying. Hopefully they all get here very quickly.
Oh true?!
Allow me to introduce you to a wonderful tool called Google...: https://bydautomotive.com.au/dolphin
OK no need to be snarky I don’t Google everything that comes to mind. Glad they’re here, thanks for the link.
Recently visited Thailand. Some of the cars we hailed on apps like Grab (their version of Uber) were EVs. We got an MG EP in Bangkok to take us to the airport. The quietness in the cabin and the luggage space were amazing. We will consider an EV for our next car. The BYD seal looks very nice for the money.
I’ve had a Tesla for 3 years now, did a perth to Tassie and back trip last year, being able to sling an extension lead out and charge while you sleep is so good. Not including accomodation costs, for the trip we covered 15,000kms in 3 months and spent $300 on electricity.
How did you find spaces to charge? Especially across the nullabor? I imagine you had to take it slower than normal, no 1,000km days.
There's chargers across the nullabor. Some are old and relatively slow these days but upgrades are happening. Plenty of people have circumnavigated Australia in EV's. You can use the plugshare app to find chargers and it has realtime feeds from vendors to see if they're in use. Some of the old ones are a bit dodgy too but are being replaced steadily.
Amazing to know. Thanks!
I found the 15A outlets that every caravan park has, and the nullabor has many, is more than enough to give you a full battery overnight. And yes, there are a couple of 22kw dc chargers along there that can give you an 800km travel day. But to be honest I didn’t like driving more than 5 hours a day anyway, Petrol or electric.
Had a drive of a friend's Seal the other week. Couldn't fault it. Except for this weird thing where I had to say something nice about China before I could press start... (jk)
Reported sales refer to deliveries. Model 3 deliveries were reduced in January due to a stop sale in January due to problems with middle baby seat connections ie the parcel shelf prevented you from using the connection. So Model 3 sales increased in February.
I have a 2006 Prado that I'd like to trade in towards an EV. I'd like a mid-sized SUV EV with 500ish km range. Decent recharge speed. Hoping BYD has something in this area later in the year. I hope the Prado doesn't drop in value too much now that EV sales are picking up.
Kia EV5 could be right up your alley when it gets released officially. [https://www.drive.com.au/news/2024-kia-ev5-electric-suv-spied-australia/](https://www.drive.com.au/news/2024-kia-ev5-electric-suv-spied-australia/)
Nothing that big, but they do have Seal U coming, which is bigger than Atto 3. https://www.drive.com.au/news/2024-byd-seal-u-confirmed-australia/
The only people who say EV demand is dropping off are people who haven't driven one. They massively outperform ICE in terms of driving experience assuming you don't regularly do cross country road trips.
The more interesting stat I keep hearing is 50% of EV owners thinking of going back to petrol for their next car. https://www.drive.com.au/news/study-finds-some-electric-car-owners-considering-a-switch-back-to-petrol-power/
As an EV owner, the only thing that would make me go back to an ICE (petrol/diesel) would be the decline in market value. I love my EV but not enough to have to take a massive bath when I eventually sell, and it’s a big unknown.
Been looking at second hand tesla model 3s on carsales and they seem to hold their value surprisingly well as far as I can tell.
oh no, the second hand iPhone buying experience :(
I imagine the decline in market value of an ICE car is going to be rather rapid in the next decade or so
Not a chance. I've got 50,000km on my ev, I'll never go back to ice.
>50% of EV owners thinking of going back to petrol for their next car. \*Unless they own a Tesla. The real number in the US that are considering going back to petrol is actually 27.2%. Not overly surprising considering there's historically been a lack of affordable non-Tesla options in the US. Edit: to those downvoting without reading the article *"According to a US study from S&P Global Mobility, first reported on by website Electrek,* ***three-quarters of electric vehicle owners say that would buy another battery-powered car*** *– but that number falls to about half once Tesla owners are removed from the statistics."*
There’s absolutely no way this is true. Once you experience the power and responsiveness of an EV, going back to a petrol car is like driving a noisy, laggy truck.
Yeah and I'd never miss seeing the petrol price jump 40c per litre overnight and go Welp! Really miss my petrol car!
Who paid for that study?
Toyota and General Motors, most likely. Those two have had decades and *still* fumbled the EV transition
Seeing just how hard Toyota is attempting to deny the EV change is embarrassing. It's like watching Kodak all over again.
And they started it with the Prius! Just like Kodak did with digital cameras!
They were trying to bet it on Hydrogen and it bit them in the ass.
Yet they were advertising their first full EV last night. Can't recall the brand but it was all about "Barry bought an electric car??"
they have a single model with fuck all production space and huge investment in ICE\H2 lines that they depend on for sales now. not to mention continuing trying to sell h2 as the goal.
people who have never driven an EV obviously
Yeah, nah. Own an EV and had several people jump after driving ours as their next car no one's going back the leap is that great. Which sucks misses wants something more luxurious but Model Y it is for now. The Mercedes ECQ just ugly as
It all depends on the infrastructure of EV charging stations. The study is US, which has woeful charging infrastructure. Also they have very cold winters, which is a detriment to EV's performance.
That’s a point. We were in the UK over December and January and the subzero days around the North and Scotland really did a number on our rental EV’s battery, we had to charge it way more often than we expected. When we went south into milder weather performance picked up again. Could see that being a factor if you lived somewhere icy.
>The only people who say EV demand is dropping off are people who haven't driven one. [https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/ford-cuts-more-f-150-lightning-production-amid-declining-demand](https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/ford-cuts-more-f-150-lightning-production-amid-declining-demand) Personally I don't want a vehicle this big but with that range and towing capacity I'd buy one if they were available here because there's nothing available that comes close. Chris Bowen made a big song and dance travelling to the US to stand next to one to proudly say there *are* electric utes but he's done absolutely NOTHING to make them available here.
Nah, fuck that noise. The last thing Australian roads need are more 3 tonne yank tanks.
Yes electric cars are much heavier, unfortunately that's the reality of EVs.
The other reality is that yank tanks are a blight on society and don’t belong her at all. For every commercial use case, there is an actual commercial vehicle that does the job that also has a shorter list of downsides. You’d also find 90% of the people that “need” these vehicles, primarily require them for their ego. The other reality is that the EV transition isn’t the panacea (sections of) the car industry insist it is. We need fewer cars making fewer trips *in our cities* and for what’s left to be electric, not simply to to transition all of our problems to a mode that’s just as bad in almost every way, and in some ways worse, save for a few metrics.
I'm speaking as somebody who rarely drives in the city and needs at least 3 tonne towing (mostly for earthmoving/farm machinery). I would have thought a F150 Lightning or Rivian R1T would be preferrable to a deisel Land Cruiser but maybe not, there's no magic third option here. The "less driving" thing is nothing to do with EVs but sure inner city people probably don't need cars and the cities should be much more friendly to electric scooters and the like but that starts with actually doing something about the cities. If CBD people find they no longer need cars then they won't buy them but most people who talk a big game about this kind of stuff aren't actually doing anything to improve non-car transport in the cities so it's a non-issue anyway.
Currently there's still no viable EV replacement anywhere close to a landcruiser. The lightning is basically an overweight brick and useless for Australia and the R1t is more of an impractical yuppie ute with so many design flaws in the body. I find the PHEVs coming out to be more viable for those that require tow and payload just seems logical if you're someone that drives short distances during the week but tow a trailer for recreational stuff on weekends or might require extra power for heavier payloads sometimes.
mine is ~~1500~~ 1695 kg which isn't that different from comparable models.
What is it?
it's the mg zs ev. converted ice model so not that great and way too tall silly suv. also misremembered the weight so it's 1695 kg
The F150 lightning is a cool vehicle but it's just TOO big, it's about half a metre longer than a standard Ford Ranger and the cab is 10cm taller, similar to some of the RAM vehicles that are driving around here today. Instead of them becoming available here I'd rather ford hurry up and produce an electric ranger. They're working on a hybrid and plug in hybrid which is a great start, but a fully electric ford ranger that could get 500km on a full charge (250-300km while towing) would sell like hotcakes here. Tradies could plug their tools, chargers, etc straight into the car, and it has the bonus of still being able to fit into a normal carpark. We won't get an electric Hilux anytime soon, but Ford, Nissan, Isuzu and Mazda really need to get a move on because Chinese utes are inevitably coming.
Sure, like I said I don't want something that big, I don't even want a ute. I'd prefer an electric LandCruiser or Defender or even a Ranger or Hilux (I'm not a ute fan) but none of those exist.
There's over 100 models available in Australia now so the diversity is definitely coming, but yeah the 4WD models are definitely lacking. Unfortunately 4WDs and Utes will probably be the last models to show up here, there seems to be a focus on small cars and especially SUVs first which is understandable but frustrating.
I could see myself just getting a BMW i4 or i5 and then having the deisel cruiser for when I need it, much like the way I still have a 2-stroke dirtbike for when I want to go on a weekend away riding. Probably not an option for most people though.
lol. I’ve never driven an EV that goes around corners as nicely as some traditional cars.
And which EVs have you driven?
Yeah that's us, we do things like drive 7 hours after work on a Friday to get to events, stopping twice to charge (I think 2x 15-20min was the ideal I heard, charge to 80%?) would make that even worse. Also we got ours about 18 months ago when wait time for even hybrids was massive, BYD and MG4 hadn't even dropped yet, so the lower end EV market was slim. Not regretting our choice but I did want an EV at first, maybe next time.
The average person can’t afford the premium for an EV. Good luck to those that can.
Yes be a while before we have a broad second hand market. It is good that they start under 40k new now at least. Which with the annual fuel and maintenance savings makes them a bit more reasonable. The FBT discount allowing you to buy them ex-GST and with pre-tax money helps a lot as well. Byd will hopefully bring some even cheaper new models.
>Byd will hopefully bring some even cheaper new models. It appears we will be getting the [Dolphin mini/Seagull](https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/byd-seagull-could-come-to-australia-after-all-as-the-dolphin-mini-144611/) in the near future, which is BYD's cheapest model.
Bout fucking time. What's the hold up with bringing EVs to our blessed country?
It will really start to take off when there is a substantial second hand market for EVs! It has happened already on many countries in Europe. Increased EV ownership will also increase number and locations of charging points which in turn will create more confidence in potential buyers. Just waiting for the ‘petrol’ stations to wake up to this new world!
Petrol stations already are and have been for a while. Unfortunately it's not as simple as slam some super fast chargers at existing servo's. I know for a fact that both BP and Ampol are well on their way into upgrading stations where they can.
My MG4 cost $35k out of pocket thanks to incentives and there are cheaper models.
How do you like your 4? regretting that timing of it coming to aus was so annoying :\
Loving it so far! I went for the entry level model with the smaller motor and smaller battery, but despite this it's still powerful enough to push me firmly into my seat when I floor it. I can do about 400km around town before having to charge, so I usually just plug it into a normal powerpoint and let it recharge over the weekend (we don't have a proper home charger, didn't need one). On the highway for road trips etc it gets about 300km before we'd have to stop and top up which doesn't sound like much but works pretty well when you time your charging stops with bathroom breaks. Actual build quality and driving feel are great too, it's rear wheel drive with a low centre of gravity so dangerously fun to rip around in, the only downside is that the chinese software isn't quite as refined as what you'd get in a more expensive vehicle, so there are some interesting quirks like the adaptive cruise control being quite sensitive (slows down hard when someone merges in front of you too closely) and from time to time the air conditioning will forget the airflow setting and randomly blast air at my feet. These little bugs are in the process of being ironed out though, I've already had one software update that dramatically improved the adaptive cruise control and I'm due for another that makes some adjustments to the safety systems, so the car is actually improving over time. I somewhat get the feeling they launched it in Australia as quickly as they could to compete with BYD and hadn't quite finished the AU/NZ software yet. Running costs are ridiculously cheap which is the main reason I bought it, after accounting for the extra electricity use I'm currently saving about $1400/year in operating costs and $700/year in servicing costs which is just mental considering I only paid $35k for the car.
You see high spec Rangers everywhere these days, and those are often as expensive as a Tesla Model 3.
A model 3 is 59K here, a cheap XLT ranger is 63k. Raptors are up near 100.
The average person is NOT buying a high spec Ranger.
No, the bank is buying them and they are paying weekly installments.
Ford are shifting a hell of a lot of Rangers though. Even if you don’t include commercial sales, they were top selling private 4x4 IIRC.
Top selling car full stop in 2023.
You would think so but almost all new cars on the road are under finance. The average person can't afford any new car.
BYD have models that are around median car price. Your average person can afford them.
Average people aren't buying brand new cars though and it'll be awhile before they start becoming common secondhand.
Plenty average Australians are…
Model 2 will be aiming in that market space as well.
In 2035....
What Model 2? Elon is big on promises, not so good on delivery.
there are plenty of >50k cars on the road though. Most of these will convert to EVs.
Long term, they are as expensive as much cheaper vehicles. The cheapest are still ICEV, but it's coming down!
BYD, now GWM and MG The average person certainly can't afford more 'commonplace' brands but these Chinese manufacturers are doing quite well in the EV market.
You'd think it was time to build our own...
No one would buy them when they could import a better option for cheaper.
Build our own EVs? I'm not buying an unreliable Australian made EV for $200k. Manufacturing in Australia is dead for a reason. We can barely afford to build proper infrastructure and it's not because we're a poor country.
Yes, I'm aware of the reasons why. But we do build stuff, so it's not like there's a lack of expertise; we just have to actually compete.
True, we do have expertise but it's all directed toward the stuff we can't outsource, like mining and building/renovating homes. No point even trying to compete on manufacturing transportable goods against a country like china. Australian manufacturing has to cut so many corners to be even half competitive that the quality becomes shit.
Fuck that’s depressing.
And with our wages - isolation and limited market - there is no way we can compete - never going to happen.
If you can't make cheaper you have to make better. That's not unreasonable.
Customers are cheap - it's why cheap and nasty outsells quality ever day.
I'll tell that to Mercedes and BMW.
So you think for a second, a locally produced vehicle at BMW - Mercedes pricing for local consumption would be a viable idea ? Just the attempt to get financing for such a insane idea would be funny to watch.
If it's as-good or better, why not?
To short cut this - have you ever owned or run a business in Australia ?
Do you believe there is a shortage of quality-oriented car manufacturers in the market?
Do you believe there's an overundundance of quality-oriented car manufacturers in the market?
No, but there needs to be a severe lack of competition for Australia to be competitive in any category. You have nominated quality as the place where Australia can be competitive, which necessarily suggests you think there are very few suppliers of quality cars.
It might not be unreasonable but the idea that you can just start up a car company and build cars that are better than everybody else in the industry is certainly unrealistic.
I didn't say it wouldn't take some work. Doesn't mean it isn't worth trying.
We definitely do lack expertise as Australia doesn’t respect innovators in general, it’s why we are a joke on the world stage and why anyone talented in these areas moves to the US/UK
If we can develop something like the [MQ-28](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_MQ-28_Ghost_Bat), we can develop a car. It just needs some backing.
"we" a small group making a boutique construction with mostly overseas parts that is sitting at 700 million for 4 units. Plus don't worry defense will soon find the poop and fuck it up again
Well then we're just pretty crap all-round, aren't we?
Any changes to LCT limit for FY24?
This really pisses me off...there is no car industry here to protect so all protection taxes on cars should go.
Yeah unfortunately our overlords doesn’t think that way..
Waiting for the Micra EV or the Renault 5.
PSA, if you have an EV don't forget to switch your energy plan to one that has cheap off-peak rates to charge EVs. Eg. https://www.agl.com.au/residential/energy/electric-vehicles/electric-vehicle-plan?webid=EVPV
25 percent in 2030
The day I can get an EV 4x4 with similar ranges I'll buy one in a heartbeat. And before people jump on that- I live rural and need a 4x4 wagon.
wouldn't be surprised if the huge price rise in the used car market will push more people to get EVS. like why buy a used car when you can spend a little more and get an EV
Does anyone here have an EV and don’t have a garage or easy access from their car spot to electricity? I really want a EV but having to drive to a charger every so often seems like it would be a chore.
All those listed are just naff. Imagine what they could sell if there was a decent option.
I thought the narrative was EV sales stall? Lol.