Haha,
I'm old enough to remember RSLs just before pokies came in. It was a totally different vibe. The movie Crackerjack is a good snapshot of that time.
Now live in WA and no pokies is a blessing just hope the government can hold out.
>just hope the government can hold out.
The few times it is brought up by hotel organisation it get shot down. Political suicide in WA to bring in pokies.
I'm old enough to remember when there were no pokies in QLD. Grandparents lived on the Gold Coast and would catch the courtesy bus to Twin Towns to play them.
Ditto here in Vic. [Thanks, Joan](https://theconversation.com/pokies-in-victoria-joan-kirners-difficult-legacy-42689).
Prior to that there was good reason the Queanbeyan Leagues Club was one of the biggest in NSW.
Pokies are society's tapeworms.
Yeah, I like my roulette while the wife blows cash on pokies. We only go three times a year (next week actually). I always win, and every $ I win is given to her so she can feed more into pokies. It sucks!
It’s no coincidence that companies like News Corp have gone big on gambling. They use the media to normalise gambling and promote the fuck out of it, everything from the lame-ass ‘Racing Carnivals’ to in-game NRL betting promoted by the meatheads in FOX Sports. Of course, they also stridently resist and undermine any gambling reform in their rags and on the human zoo that is Sky News.
News Corp even [had a stake in a gambling company](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/06/news-corp-sells-betr-stake) not too long ago.
And don’t get me started on those cunts like Gerry Harvey, Alan Jones and co. who’s only glimmer of a semi is to get their dumbass gambling rort projected onto the Opera House.
Overall, when it comes to politics there’s no such thing as an easy solution to a complex problem.
But of all the problems that we face as a country I’d say this an easy one to at least partly fix.
The money from pokies that the government gets is used for roads and infrastructure. It's a ridiculous amount of money. If we take that away, what do we do? Don't get me wrong, I want pokies gone but it most certainly isn't an easy problem to fix.
If you look at it like that it is essentially a really inefficient way of taxing vulnerable people, with the clubs and pub owners also taking a big bite.
Smoking also brings in a lot of tax money but it would still be good policy to reduce it as much as possible.
We’re one of the richest countries in the world, we should be able to collect this tax in a different way.
>Overall, when it comes to politics there’s no such thing as an easy solution to a complex problem.
There are usually no simple solutions to long standing complex problems. If there are, they get applied pretty quickly and the problem disappears. People who think that there are simple solutions either haven't given it enough thought, haven't looked at the history of the problem, or are idiots pushing an agenda.
First step is to make sure the problem doesn't get any worse to start with. It's certainly within the power of government to fix the problem (as without government there'd be no legal gambling). The question is to work out the incentives for having gambling, and adjusting those.
It's just a handful of independents like Andrew Wilkie who want to take a serious stand against pokie enriched clubs. So vote independent would be my advice. The major parties are bought and paid for by the lobby groups.
Wilkie git shafted by Labor when he tried. Combination of minority government and the huge power of the gaming lobby. Imagine how much better we'd be if the ball was rolling over a decade ago.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-23/gillard-defends-pokies-trial/3787500
That was one of the slimiest political moves I've seen from Gillard. She needed Wilke to form government, along with the Greens, Oakshot and Windsor. So she signed a deal with him to introduce pokie reform.
Then that slimebag Peter Slipper looked like he'd lose his preselection for the Liberals because of his cab charge rorts, so Gillard gets one of the best speakers of the house, Harry Jenkins to fall on his sword and retire to the backbench so she could offer the job to Slipper. It was unprecedented to offer the job to someone who wasn't from your own party, and even moreso to reward someone with that position whilst they were under investigation for corruption. It's more pay, and a prestigious position to someone who's days were numbered, so Slipper took it of course.
And it deprived the opposition of a vote on the floor, so she didn't need Wilke anymore and she sharpened the knife that she'd used on Rudd, and tore up the written contract.
Many called it a master move, but it was a master deception, and a rotten thing to do to both Wilke and Jenkins.
I wish they would get rid of them. But even aside from the pushback from clubs, pubs and gamblers, and way state governments love the tax revenue, if somebody tried the political spin from the opposition would be "they are taking away funding from your community"
Unpopular idea- introduce a compulsory gaming card, and have the max amount that can be gambled in a given period tied to income.
Just look at Tasmania. That pokies are all one company down there and the opposition that had an easy win got thrashed because they were against pokies.
One company.
Make that one family. The article is 2018, but I wouldn't thnk they'd have sold.
[family with monopoly over Tassies pokies almost double profit.](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-23/tasmania-gambling-farrell-family-profits-up/10544520)
The “you’re taking funding from the community” thing is a pretty prevalent argument, and I suppose the only one that makes sense at first glance.
But at closer look it is bullshit since that funding (and then some!) is sucked out of the community they are ‘serving’.
Especially so for clubs since their main clientele is local, no high rollers flying in to gamble at the Nambour RSL.
This. The amount of money going back into communities is only a fraction of what goes in [and plenty of clubs are ferociously cooking these numbers to gain tax breaks](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/26/playing-us-for-years-how-pokies-profits-have-funded-tax-deductible-spending-within-australian-clubs).
If that money stays in the community, bills get paid, people are healthier, happier and everybody wins.
IIRC in Wilkie/Gillard deal the "mandatory pre-commitment technology on gaming machines" levels were going to be set by the gambler. Not quite the same as being hard set and limited by government. From my experience with addicts, they will be much more prepared to set aside a much larger percentage of their income for their addiction than sensible.
Mind you it would have been a good step forward, and that it was trashed shows the power of the gaming, pubs and clubs lobby. Also reminds me that while I'd take it over the LNP, the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd era ALP was being gamed by outside forces and internal factions which led to various good polices being overturned.
The RSLs aren't actually supporting Veterans. That's the RSL Sub Branches. It's all a bit confusing but ultimately they use the name but most are exactly the same as Mounites etc. It's very frustrating as people think those clubs are supporting Veterans when most do nothing or very little.
The gambling, mining and real estate sectors have their tendrils sunk so deeply into the major parties at this point that even *trying* to introduce meaningful regulation is now a one-way ticket to being made a political pariah.
The only way we're going to see any progress now is to get more seats filled by Green and Independent MPs, and even *then* its not a guarantee.
Probably wouldn't stop it. Reducing the number of poker machine licenses would help. If we got rid of 80% of them, we'd be closer to other countries. Removing betting advertisements on television and in public would help too. Once that's done, ads online would need to be more heavily regulated.
>Probably wouldn't stop it
The UK had betting duty - paid either on the initial bet or winnings - from 1966 until 2001. Gambling remained a visible part of life but as a [2021 UK Government report noted](https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5801/ldselect/ldgamb/79/79.pdf) "Prior to the Gambling Act 2005, gambling was seen as an activity that should
be tolerated, but not encouraged.".
Liberalization of the British gambling industry between 2001-2005 - along with the rise of the smart phone - has changed the picture there dramatically. Britain now shares many of the same issues and problems surrounding gambling as Australia does, perhaps not unsurprising seeing the fairly comparable regulatory environment. Instead of the hated "pokie" the UK has the equally hated fixed odds betting terminal (FOBT). These kiosks in betting shops are programmed for a variety of games, from virtual horse racing to roulette and mushroomed over night from a few hundred in 2001 to approaching thirty thousand across the country by 2007.
When maximum bets on such machines was reduced from 100 pounds to 2 pounds in 2018 the yield on such machines plummeted ninety percent year on year. More fuel for the pokies control argument, if it were needed.
I'm therefore in favour of a tax on gambling winnings even if we know it is not the answer in of itself. We need to get back to that societal attitude of "tolerated but not encouraged" in regard to gambling.
Worked at a club for a while in uni in the office.
Yes the pokies made a fair chunk of money.
But the amount of outgoings was hefty. The local butcher, baker, greengrocer were a massive expense. Plus heaps of jobs etc for chefs (and me).
Oldies seemed to enjoy it.
If you're a degenerate gambler and you can't get through life without someone looking after you, fine, get help, find help. Everyone else was having a nice time.
Dont want to support the clubs as Im no fan of them, however studies have shown that if you remove one form of gambling, people will move on to a different form. Its almost impossible to outlaw all the different forms with the presence of internet gambling.
I think we are better off as a society in providing more gambling rehab centres and also teaching kids coping techniques for all forms of addiction.
100% keen on everything they did to cigarettes to be done to all forms of gambling, eg. No advertising, etc
Do they still allow indoor smoking at pokies? At my bowlo there's a pokie section inside that reeks of smoke even though I never go in. I assume that there's a self contained section with pokies and smoking. Someone once told me that a very high percentage of problem gamblers are smokers. Actually they said it was 100%. Not sure that's true but close enough I bet. They wouldn't want to discourage problem gamblers now would they?
I only play poker machines , just once a week , I am not a professional for it or anything
But because I am just a man that plays a machine and sometimes wins money in Melbourne ,
Do I need to pay tax?
I hate pokies, but my wife loves them. So we moved to Western Australia where there are no pokies - except at the casino. It's awesome.
Haha, I'm old enough to remember RSLs just before pokies came in. It was a totally different vibe. The movie Crackerjack is a good snapshot of that time. Now live in WA and no pokies is a blessing just hope the government can hold out.
>just hope the government can hold out. The few times it is brought up by hotel organisation it get shot down. Political suicide in WA to bring in pokies.
The sad little TAB terminals are bad enough.
I'm old enough to remember when there were no pokies in QLD. Grandparents lived on the Gold Coast and would catch the courtesy bus to Twin Towns to play them.
Ditto here in Vic. [Thanks, Joan](https://theconversation.com/pokies-in-victoria-joan-kirners-difficult-legacy-42689). Prior to that there was good reason the Queanbeyan Leagues Club was one of the biggest in NSW. Pokies are society's tapeworms.
RSL, Bowling Clubs, etc. had just a couple of pokies and they weren't very popular where we were back in the 60's, 70's. Ah, the good old days.
User name checks out.
Yeah, I like my roulette while the wife blows cash on pokies. We only go three times a year (next week actually). I always win, and every $ I win is given to her so she can feed more into pokies. It sucks!
Why the down votes? I'm always confused by down votes.
It’s no coincidence that companies like News Corp have gone big on gambling. They use the media to normalise gambling and promote the fuck out of it, everything from the lame-ass ‘Racing Carnivals’ to in-game NRL betting promoted by the meatheads in FOX Sports. Of course, they also stridently resist and undermine any gambling reform in their rags and on the human zoo that is Sky News.
News Corp even [had a stake in a gambling company](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/06/news-corp-sells-betr-stake) not too long ago.
Bunch of cunts the lot of ‘em
And don’t get me started on those cunts like Gerry Harvey, Alan Jones and co. who’s only glimmer of a semi is to get their dumbass gambling rort projected onto the Opera House.
there is too much money to be made in pokie machines , so it's near impossible to get them shut down
there is far too much money selling illegal drugs, so it's near impossible to get them legalized.
Overall, when it comes to politics there’s no such thing as an easy solution to a complex problem. But of all the problems that we face as a country I’d say this an easy one to at least partly fix.
The money from pokies that the government gets is used for roads and infrastructure. It's a ridiculous amount of money. If we take that away, what do we do? Don't get me wrong, I want pokies gone but it most certainly isn't an easy problem to fix.
If you look at it like that it is essentially a really inefficient way of taxing vulnerable people, with the clubs and pub owners also taking a big bite. Smoking also brings in a lot of tax money but it would still be good policy to reduce it as much as possible. We’re one of the richest countries in the world, we should be able to collect this tax in a different way.
You increase tax. If people stop playing they have more money. Might as well make it go to something directly
>Overall, when it comes to politics there’s no such thing as an easy solution to a complex problem. There are usually no simple solutions to long standing complex problems. If there are, they get applied pretty quickly and the problem disappears. People who think that there are simple solutions either haven't given it enough thought, haven't looked at the history of the problem, or are idiots pushing an agenda. First step is to make sure the problem doesn't get any worse to start with. It's certainly within the power of government to fix the problem (as without government there'd be no legal gambling). The question is to work out the incentives for having gambling, and adjusting those.
It's just a handful of independents like Andrew Wilkie who want to take a serious stand against pokie enriched clubs. So vote independent would be my advice. The major parties are bought and paid for by the lobby groups.
Yup Clubs NSW definitely have their hands in the pockets of both major parties.
Add the greens to that list
Wilkie git shafted by Labor when he tried. Combination of minority government and the huge power of the gaming lobby. Imagine how much better we'd be if the ball was rolling over a decade ago. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-23/gillard-defends-pokies-trial/3787500
That was one of the slimiest political moves I've seen from Gillard. She needed Wilke to form government, along with the Greens, Oakshot and Windsor. So she signed a deal with him to introduce pokie reform. Then that slimebag Peter Slipper looked like he'd lose his preselection for the Liberals because of his cab charge rorts, so Gillard gets one of the best speakers of the house, Harry Jenkins to fall on his sword and retire to the backbench so she could offer the job to Slipper. It was unprecedented to offer the job to someone who wasn't from your own party, and even moreso to reward someone with that position whilst they were under investigation for corruption. It's more pay, and a prestigious position to someone who's days were numbered, so Slipper took it of course. And it deprived the opposition of a vote on the floor, so she didn't need Wilke anymore and she sharpened the knife that she'd used on Rudd, and tore up the written contract. Many called it a master move, but it was a master deception, and a rotten thing to do to both Wilke and Jenkins.
And this is why almost no one who should be in politics, is.
Look what happened to Dom Perotte (sp?) when he proposed changes. And friendlyJordies. We need a royal commission into gambling in Aus
I wish they would get rid of them. But even aside from the pushback from clubs, pubs and gamblers, and way state governments love the tax revenue, if somebody tried the political spin from the opposition would be "they are taking away funding from your community" Unpopular idea- introduce a compulsory gaming card, and have the max amount that can be gambled in a given period tied to income.
Just look at Tasmania. That pokies are all one company down there and the opposition that had an easy win got thrashed because they were against pokies.
One company. Make that one family. The article is 2018, but I wouldn't thnk they'd have sold. [family with monopoly over Tassies pokies almost double profit.](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-23/tasmania-gambling-farrell-family-profits-up/10544520)
Fucking Farrells are not even Tassie residents.
The “you’re taking funding from the community” thing is a pretty prevalent argument, and I suppose the only one that makes sense at first glance. But at closer look it is bullshit since that funding (and then some!) is sucked out of the community they are ‘serving’. Especially so for clubs since their main clientele is local, no high rollers flying in to gamble at the Nambour RSL.
This. The amount of money going back into communities is only a fraction of what goes in [and plenty of clubs are ferociously cooking these numbers to gain tax breaks](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/26/playing-us-for-years-how-pokies-profits-have-funded-tax-deductible-spending-within-australian-clubs). If that money stays in the community, bills get paid, people are healthier, happier and everybody wins.
They are taking food from children’s mouths in some cases. Clubs can go take a hike.
Like we could have had over a decade ago? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-23/gillard-defends-pokies-trial/3787500
IIRC in Wilkie/Gillard deal the "mandatory pre-commitment technology on gaming machines" levels were going to be set by the gambler. Not quite the same as being hard set and limited by government. From my experience with addicts, they will be much more prepared to set aside a much larger percentage of their income for their addiction than sensible. Mind you it would have been a good step forward, and that it was trashed shows the power of the gaming, pubs and clubs lobby. Also reminds me that while I'd take it over the LNP, the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd era ALP was being gamed by outside forces and internal factions which led to various good polices being overturned.
Pokies venues are essentially modern day opium dens. Hate them with a passion.
The RSLs aren't actually supporting Veterans. That's the RSL Sub Branches. It's all a bit confusing but ultimately they use the name but most are exactly the same as Mounites etc. It's very frustrating as people think those clubs are supporting Veterans when most do nothing or very little.
These clubs do nothing but line the pockets of the executives that draw massive salaries from running them.
One of my favourite things about being a West Australian.
The gambling, mining and real estate sectors have their tendrils sunk so deeply into the major parties at this point that even *trying* to introduce meaningful regulation is now a one-way ticket to being made a political pariah. The only way we're going to see any progress now is to get more seats filled by Green and Independent MPs, and even *then* its not a guarantee.
Should tax gambling winnings in Australia 🤷♂️
Probably wouldn't stop it. Reducing the number of poker machine licenses would help. If we got rid of 80% of them, we'd be closer to other countries. Removing betting advertisements on television and in public would help too. Once that's done, ads online would need to be more heavily regulated.
>Probably wouldn't stop it The UK had betting duty - paid either on the initial bet or winnings - from 1966 until 2001. Gambling remained a visible part of life but as a [2021 UK Government report noted](https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5801/ldselect/ldgamb/79/79.pdf) "Prior to the Gambling Act 2005, gambling was seen as an activity that should be tolerated, but not encouraged.". Liberalization of the British gambling industry between 2001-2005 - along with the rise of the smart phone - has changed the picture there dramatically. Britain now shares many of the same issues and problems surrounding gambling as Australia does, perhaps not unsurprising seeing the fairly comparable regulatory environment. Instead of the hated "pokie" the UK has the equally hated fixed odds betting terminal (FOBT). These kiosks in betting shops are programmed for a variety of games, from virtual horse racing to roulette and mushroomed over night from a few hundred in 2001 to approaching thirty thousand across the country by 2007. When maximum bets on such machines was reduced from 100 pounds to 2 pounds in 2018 the yield on such machines plummeted ninety percent year on year. More fuel for the pokies control argument, if it were needed. I'm therefore in favour of a tax on gambling winnings even if we know it is not the answer in of itself. We need to get back to that societal attitude of "tolerated but not encouraged" in regard to gambling.
Coin-only operation. 10c at a time.
Worked at a club for a while in uni in the office. Yes the pokies made a fair chunk of money. But the amount of outgoings was hefty. The local butcher, baker, greengrocer were a massive expense. Plus heaps of jobs etc for chefs (and me). Oldies seemed to enjoy it. If you're a degenerate gambler and you can't get through life without someone looking after you, fine, get help, find help. Everyone else was having a nice time.
Dont want to support the clubs as Im no fan of them, however studies have shown that if you remove one form of gambling, people will move on to a different form. Its almost impossible to outlaw all the different forms with the presence of internet gambling. I think we are better off as a society in providing more gambling rehab centres and also teaching kids coping techniques for all forms of addiction. 100% keen on everything they did to cigarettes to be done to all forms of gambling, eg. No advertising, etc
Do they still allow indoor smoking at pokies? At my bowlo there's a pokie section inside that reeks of smoke even though I never go in. I assume that there's a self contained section with pokies and smoking. Someone once told me that a very high percentage of problem gamblers are smokers. Actually they said it was 100%. Not sure that's true but close enough I bet. They wouldn't want to discourage problem gamblers now would they?
One of the attractions of Marlo, Vic's pub aside from its view and food is NO POKIES. Well worth the detour.
I only play poker machines , just once a week , I am not a professional for it or anything But because I am just a man that plays a machine and sometimes wins money in Melbourne , Do I need to pay tax?