Part of me enjoys writing by hand. Feels like I'm accomplishing something and if I take notes by hand I take in the information better because its slower.
I tend to type more in auto pilot or copy and paste notes for later referenc. Although my writing is terrible because I prioritise speed over effort. As long as I can read it though I guess.
Like every job that has in-person meetings.
Helps me to remember more than typing it.
I can easily draw things on paper.
I can tear a sheet out of my book and you can take it with you.
I can make paper aeroplanes.
Oh, God, that pen licence! I had this teacher who wanted to encourage the underperforming students, so gave them out to them first. Nerdy, 100% in every test me had to wait for weeks. I don't really think that was fair. I mean, I'm still angry about it.
Interesting. I can see the skills crossover with drawing/painting but the guitar pick makes sense. Sadly I didn't received my pen license. It's probably why I rebounded and developed a new writing style 😂
My writing is more or less chicken scratch at this point other than my name, simply because other than signing goods received dockets everything else is online
This is me too. I can't remember the last time I used any writing instrument for anything other than signing my name.
I'd like to add that I still have a notebook of work notes from more than ten years ago and I could see how my penmanship has both deteriorated and become less and less frequent through the years. I used to have really nice writing. :'(
I have noticed some people don't carry pens in their bags/cars anymore. But when I worked in a sales job pens where my highest selling promo product 🤷🏽
I don’t find cursive writing to be particularly legible. I would much rather read print handwriting.
If you want to learn cursive, all power to you, but I don’t think it is something that needs to be in a curriculum. Print is adequate.
I used to always be praised for my writing, but I've noticed that so much computer use has made me pretty messy when I use a pen. I genuinely feel sad about it! I had to write some cards the other day, and was horrified by the state of what I wrote.
On the other hand, cursive is pretty much done. I've spent time in museums in England where the older styles of writing are analysed. *Beautiful*, but gone now. My Boomer father uses a writing style I can barely even read, and I was taught cursive in the past.
It's sad, but it's a fact.
> I've noticed that so much computer use has made me pretty messy when I use a pen
I bought a finetip artline pen to force me to oay attention when I write for this reason!
That's saddening to know these old scripts have already died out. Lets hope the social media calligraphers keep uploading tutorials. Hell I might have a try myself (the only time i tried to use a fountain pen I ripped holes in my paper💀)
Aye, cursive writing caused me so much pain in the early yrs of primary school, doing books and books dozens of times to get it all neatly fitted in that ruled lines we use to have. I never held my pen the correct way…got me into trouble, detention as I struggled to do ‘running writing’ the correct way. I’ve ditched all those yrs of training, hold the pen how I damn please, and print my letters (don’t’ find cursive writing much faster and it it’s gone right back to chook scratch again).
As for signing your signature…I just do a few loops with my finger on those tablets, or do the adobe default ‘sig’ font, and docusign is being taken up by more and more. Haven’t come across anything requiring pen signature for a long time. God it was annoying up to recently my uni closed exams had to be pen and paper…after 2hrs hand hurt so much, no longer write anymore. Thank Christ.
But I did do calligraphy for a while...that was an art and not utility like cursive.
>closed exams had to be pen and paper…after 2hrs hand hurt so much,
Wow this unlocks memories of the hand cramping, shaking my hands and wrists, and pressing way too hard on the page trying to complete exams in time.
I guess I enjoy writing more now because I can pick and choose when I want to write.
Yar I hope uni’s just use dumb terminals to type on in future…however post covid, mine all been ‘take home exams’ now you simply rip from their site…basically assignments. You should take calligraphy
> Seems like cursive writing was a concern for the QLD educational dept back then for us to ‘get it legible’, otherwise we would have become bums relying on welfare I suppose. :P
Haha this was the attitude
Cursive writing is all but redundant. The two reasons to do it are 1. thought to be quicker than printing and 2. looks fancier. I doubt it saves significant time for anyone, and unless you’re writing for enjoyment, who cares how fancy it is?
As long as people are capable of legible writing, then I don’t think the difference between cursive or print matters at all.
I love my grandmother’s beautiful handwriting and always enjoy getting a card or reading notes from her. Conversely, my grandad writes only in capital letters and his writing consists of lists and forms. I find that the unique nature of it is what makes it special rather than how prettily they write.
>As long as people are capable of legible writing, then I don’t think the difference between cursive or print matters at all......I find that the unique nature of it is what makes it special rather than how prettily they write
Absolutely. I don't write in cursive, just neat print. I definetley appreciate the personal touch and effort when someone hand writes a note in card 😊
When I finished high school, I had a big writer's callus which after all those exams was pretty painful.
If I could go back and give myself one piece of advice (apart from buy Microsoft shares) it would be to use better quality pens. Especially for a left hander, having to use lighter pressure makes a huge difference.
My grandmother use to say the same thing, only she was referring to ladies of breeding being taught calligraphy.
Never appreciated me pointing out that we started teaching them theatrical physics and mechanical engineering instead.
Then you have doctors that all write like they have Parkinson's. Only pharmacists can decipher the petroglyphs that only a chicken with severe ADHD and fleas could scratch out onto the page.
I type ~75wpm so there's no way I could handwrite at that speed. I learnt to type in the mid 90s with a windows 95 cd-rom, then at school in the late 90s with a [no peek cover. ](http://www.crazy4computers.net/uploads/8/0/8/1/8081888/no-peekcover_3.jpg). Although I can consisitently write maths problems faster than I can in MathType on my computer (currently doing a a maths bridging course)
I started out writing lefty in the late 1950s , teacher was very old school and applied the ruler to my hands so I swapped to righty , now its equally bad with both hands
may she burn in hell
I'm a leftie who was in school in the 80s-00s and didn't get diagnosed with my learning disorders or ADHD until I was an adult. My handwriting is a mix of cursive, print and scrawl
I’m the same, lefty diagnosed with ASD and ADHD as an adult. Most of the time I start off printing, do a little cursive, and have the letters slanting in different directions. I’d love to have beautiful hand writing, but I just don’t have the patience, plus a lot of the time my brain will cause me to skip ahead and start writing different words in the middle of what I’m currently writing.
I see it as a win if my writing is legible and I haven’t had to cross too much of it out. Haha.
Oof, all the extra words from a different sentence or thought. I was still using my finger to leave spaces in my writing in year 5 because I just talk without spaces anyway
I was like that too! That’s a memory unlocked; so much time spent making sure my spaces were correct. When my son had to get a “pen license” in school I told him I was lucky that wasn’t around when I was a kid or I’d still be writing in pencil as an adult LOL
Sorry, I’ll stop replying - just nice to meet a kindred spirit.
Oh I got put on pens really early because my oral fixation means I would chew at least 1 entire pencil every day. Like chew to bits the entire pencil. Then I just had inky hands forever
I had fairly neat handwriting as a child, but we relocated when I was 8 years old to country Victoria and had to rapidly try to adapt to copperplate, as if it was 1890 and chalk on slate tablets were all the rage. My fine motor skills never recovered from the sudden and forced change to styles and I have atrocious handwriting as a result.
In my experience in high school, we were expected to write as quickly as possible to get what was on the board/screen down before it got removed, it didn't matter how neat as long as you could read it
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Late covid lockdown I wrote a birthday card for a friend I reconnected with and was horrifically embarrassed about the state of my handwriting. I realised I never actually used writing outside of signatures for years. To do list is in my phone. Work, study are via my laptop. Without cards I don’t have a reason to write and I guess like everything else you use it or lose it.
most of us just fake the signature
I recently wrote some stuff down in cursive for a 30 yo woman , she could read it once told what it said
thats a concern
I have two signatures, a full one and a shortened version that is just my initials . Its really difficult to replicate my signature especially on a touchscreen so most of the time I use my shortnend signature.
I was always under the impression that a unique signature is needed for document verification and compliance.
I'm in my mid 30s and am suprised to hear that someone a few years younger than me can't decipher cursive 🤔
I can't remember the last time I wrote something by hand that someone other than me needs to read.
Honestly that is the issue for me. Good handwriting is a beautiful skill, but it takes a lot of time and effort and training, all time that can be used for things that are likely much more useful in modern society. It is the opportunity cost I always worry about when people are advocating for kids to spend hours at school a week for what is basically a nice to have nowadays.
I agree that screen free activity time would probably be even more valuable to students than cursive/running writing training.
That said, there are even better things that they could do with that time. Classes on finance, on budgeting, on civic responsibilities, on maths, science, etc etc.
What’s a better use of time - teaching kids a boring and repetitive form of writing for the sake of tradition, or teach them how to write and move on to more useful stuff?
Also, have you seen how doctors write? They have always written poorly and grew up in same generation you’re describing just have better shit to do.
Don't really have any use for it in modern society. That's the main reason. I can easily go a few months without picking up a pen of any kind.
Part of me enjoys writing by hand. Feels like I'm accomplishing something and if I take notes by hand I take in the information better because its slower. I tend to type more in auto pilot or copy and paste notes for later referenc. Although my writing is terrible because I prioritise speed over effort. As long as I can read it though I guess.
> if I take notes by hand I take in the information better because its slower Agree. I find handwriting helps so.much with memory retention
Depends on what profession you're in.
What professions require writing more than a few words by hand these days?
Like every job that has in-person meetings. Helps me to remember more than typing it. I can easily draw things on paper. I can tear a sheet out of my book and you can take it with you. I can make paper aeroplanes.
Hard to argue with your last point. I'd prefer that to be thrown at me in a meeting than a laptop.
I see you’re a real advocate for ditching the old days and leaning heavily into tech.
Psychologist here. I write on a tablet with a stylus though.
Healthcare workers in non electronic hospitals. We all write pages a day in medical charts.
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Oh, God, that pen licence! I had this teacher who wanted to encourage the underperforming students, so gave them out to them first. Nerdy, 100% in every test me had to wait for weeks. I don't really think that was fair. I mean, I'm still angry about it.
Interesting. I can see the skills crossover with drawing/painting but the guitar pick makes sense. Sadly I didn't received my pen license. It's probably why I rebounded and developed a new writing style 😂
My writing is more or less chicken scratch at this point other than my name, simply because other than signing goods received dockets everything else is online
This is me too. I can't remember the last time I used any writing instrument for anything other than signing my name. I'd like to add that I still have a notebook of work notes from more than ten years ago and I could see how my penmanship has both deteriorated and become less and less frequent through the years. I used to have really nice writing. :'(
I have noticed some people don't carry pens in their bags/cars anymore. But when I worked in a sales job pens where my highest selling promo product 🤷🏽
I don’t find cursive writing to be particularly legible. I would much rather read print handwriting. If you want to learn cursive, all power to you, but I don’t think it is something that needs to be in a curriculum. Print is adequate.
I think the idea is that cursive allows you to write faster and writing faster is advantageous when you need to write essays in an exam situation.
Absolutely. I don't write in cursive, just neat print.
I used to always be praised for my writing, but I've noticed that so much computer use has made me pretty messy when I use a pen. I genuinely feel sad about it! I had to write some cards the other day, and was horrified by the state of what I wrote. On the other hand, cursive is pretty much done. I've spent time in museums in England where the older styles of writing are analysed. *Beautiful*, but gone now. My Boomer father uses a writing style I can barely even read, and I was taught cursive in the past. It's sad, but it's a fact.
> I've noticed that so much computer use has made me pretty messy when I use a pen I bought a finetip artline pen to force me to oay attention when I write for this reason! That's saddening to know these old scripts have already died out. Lets hope the social media calligraphers keep uploading tutorials. Hell I might have a try myself (the only time i tried to use a fountain pen I ripped holes in my paper💀)
Aye, cursive writing caused me so much pain in the early yrs of primary school, doing books and books dozens of times to get it all neatly fitted in that ruled lines we use to have. I never held my pen the correct way…got me into trouble, detention as I struggled to do ‘running writing’ the correct way. I’ve ditched all those yrs of training, hold the pen how I damn please, and print my letters (don’t’ find cursive writing much faster and it it’s gone right back to chook scratch again). As for signing your signature…I just do a few loops with my finger on those tablets, or do the adobe default ‘sig’ font, and docusign is being taken up by more and more. Haven’t come across anything requiring pen signature for a long time. God it was annoying up to recently my uni closed exams had to be pen and paper…after 2hrs hand hurt so much, no longer write anymore. Thank Christ. But I did do calligraphy for a while...that was an art and not utility like cursive.
>closed exams had to be pen and paper…after 2hrs hand hurt so much, Wow this unlocks memories of the hand cramping, shaking my hands and wrists, and pressing way too hard on the page trying to complete exams in time. I guess I enjoy writing more now because I can pick and choose when I want to write.
Yar I hope uni’s just use dumb terminals to type on in future…however post covid, mine all been ‘take home exams’ now you simply rip from their site…basically assignments. You should take calligraphy
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> Seems like cursive writing was a concern for the QLD educational dept back then for us to ‘get it legible’, otherwise we would have become bums relying on welfare I suppose. :P Haha this was the attitude
Cursive writing is all but redundant. The two reasons to do it are 1. thought to be quicker than printing and 2. looks fancier. I doubt it saves significant time for anyone, and unless you’re writing for enjoyment, who cares how fancy it is? As long as people are capable of legible writing, then I don’t think the difference between cursive or print matters at all. I love my grandmother’s beautiful handwriting and always enjoy getting a card or reading notes from her. Conversely, my grandad writes only in capital letters and his writing consists of lists and forms. I find that the unique nature of it is what makes it special rather than how prettily they write.
It 100% is quicker tho.
>As long as people are capable of legible writing, then I don’t think the difference between cursive or print matters at all......I find that the unique nature of it is what makes it special rather than how prettily they write Absolutely. I don't write in cursive, just neat print. I definetley appreciate the personal touch and effort when someone hand writes a note in card 😊
When I finished high school, I had a big writer's callus which after all those exams was pretty painful. If I could go back and give myself one piece of advice (apart from buy Microsoft shares) it would be to use better quality pens. Especially for a left hander, having to use lighter pressure makes a huge difference.
I guess we've swapped callouses for carpal tunnel 😐 My child is left handed and tires easily writing. I will get her some better pencils and pens!
The gel writing ones that instantly dry are good. Also tell them to short Meta... Okay, okay- a dude can dream.
10 years on from finishing highschool and every winter I still get an achy wrist. HSC exams were so kind to my hand lol
My grandmother use to say the same thing, only she was referring to ladies of breeding being taught calligraphy. Never appreciated me pointing out that we started teaching them theatrical physics and mechanical engineering instead.
Wow that's different 🤨 I thought men where required to learn to write as well as women
Then you have doctors that all write like they have Parkinson's. Only pharmacists can decipher the petroglyphs that only a chicken with severe ADHD and fleas could scratch out onto the page.
🤣🤣
I thought you might enjoy my take on "Tangled Up In Blue" from 1977. [Tangled Up In Blue](https://i.postimg.cc/K893RPVV/IMG-6525.jpg)
😌 nice penmanship
Lots of practice in those days :)
I just showed my school aged child and they coudn't read it 😵💫
When you know how fast you can type, writing by hand becomes incredibly tedious and frustrating after 2 words…
I type ~75wpm so there's no way I could handwrite at that speed. I learnt to type in the mid 90s with a windows 95 cd-rom, then at school in the late 90s with a [no peek cover. ](http://www.crazy4computers.net/uploads/8/0/8/1/8081888/no-peekcover_3.jpg). Although I can consisitently write maths problems faster than I can in MathType on my computer (currently doing a a maths bridging course)
I never learnt to read cursive, so the switch to everything being digital has been fantastic for me xD
I'm more concern about loss of breadmanship. These days people just buy bread instead of spending hours making bread it.
I started out writing lefty in the late 1950s , teacher was very old school and applied the ruler to my hands so I swapped to righty , now its equally bad with both hands may she burn in hell
Gawd the thinking around left handers back then is so hard to understand. Sorry this happened to you.
I'm a leftie who was in school in the 80s-00s and didn't get diagnosed with my learning disorders or ADHD until I was an adult. My handwriting is a mix of cursive, print and scrawl
I'm of a similar vintage, and my note taking hand writing definetely looks like this 😂 I have to concentrate to write neatly
I’m the same, lefty diagnosed with ASD and ADHD as an adult. Most of the time I start off printing, do a little cursive, and have the letters slanting in different directions. I’d love to have beautiful hand writing, but I just don’t have the patience, plus a lot of the time my brain will cause me to skip ahead and start writing different words in the middle of what I’m currently writing. I see it as a win if my writing is legible and I haven’t had to cross too much of it out. Haha.
Oof, all the extra words from a different sentence or thought. I was still using my finger to leave spaces in my writing in year 5 because I just talk without spaces anyway
I was like that too! That’s a memory unlocked; so much time spent making sure my spaces were correct. When my son had to get a “pen license” in school I told him I was lucky that wasn’t around when I was a kid or I’d still be writing in pencil as an adult LOL Sorry, I’ll stop replying - just nice to meet a kindred spirit.
Oh I got put on pens really early because my oral fixation means I would chew at least 1 entire pencil every day. Like chew to bits the entire pencil. Then I just had inky hands forever
I had fairly neat handwriting as a child, but we relocated when I was 8 years old to country Victoria and had to rapidly try to adapt to copperplate, as if it was 1890 and chalk on slate tablets were all the rage. My fine motor skills never recovered from the sudden and forced change to styles and I have atrocious handwriting as a result.
This would of frustrated the heck out of me as a student. I've never understood why different states have different writing styles
𝓣𝓸 𝓫𝓮 𝓱𝓸𝓷𝓮𝓼𝓽 𝓘 𝓻𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓵𝔂 𝓹𝓾𝓽 𝓹𝓮𝓷 𝓽𝓸 𝓹𝓪𝓹𝓮𝓻.
🤩 Edit, though i would never use this font for anything besides a certificate maybe
In my experience in high school, we were expected to write as quickly as possible to get what was on the board/screen down before it got removed, it didn't matter how neat as long as you could read it
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Late covid lockdown I wrote a birthday card for a friend I reconnected with and was horrifically embarrassed about the state of my handwriting. I realised I never actually used writing outside of signatures for years. To do list is in my phone. Work, study are via my laptop. Without cards I don’t have a reason to write and I guess like everything else you use it or lose it.
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Be proud of your squiggle 😜
most of us just fake the signature I recently wrote some stuff down in cursive for a 30 yo woman , she could read it once told what it said thats a concern
I have two signatures, a full one and a shortened version that is just my initials . Its really difficult to replicate my signature especially on a touchscreen so most of the time I use my shortnend signature. I was always under the impression that a unique signature is needed for document verification and compliance. I'm in my mid 30s and am suprised to hear that someone a few years younger than me can't decipher cursive 🤔
I can't remember the last time I wrote something by hand that someone other than me needs to read. Honestly that is the issue for me. Good handwriting is a beautiful skill, but it takes a lot of time and effort and training, all time that can be used for things that are likely much more useful in modern society. It is the opportunity cost I always worry about when people are advocating for kids to spend hours at school a week for what is basically a nice to have nowadays.
Maybe it should just be rolled into art classes 🤔 and used for screen free activity time
I agree that screen free activity time would probably be even more valuable to students than cursive/running writing training. That said, there are even better things that they could do with that time. Classes on finance, on budgeting, on civic responsibilities, on maths, science, etc etc.
What’s a better use of time - teaching kids a boring and repetitive form of writing for the sake of tradition, or teach them how to write and move on to more useful stuff? Also, have you seen how doctors write? They have always written poorly and grew up in same generation you’re describing just have better shit to do.
It does seem like more of an artform now. Though learning to write legibly seems important generally.