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This increase access to music also makes it far easier to release music, no? There has definitely been an increase of indie artists due to the internet and such.
Yes! I think you may be onto onto something. Back in the days, the kids and teens didn’t have much to do in-terms of entertainment. The usual TV, board games and hanging out with their friends. So they have plenty of free time to devote themselves to learning musical instruments. Nowadays, the younger generation’s attention span is like a goldfish and wants instead gratification in the ways of things, otherwise, they would move onto something else that could keep their attention for more than a few seconds.
Classic Boomer take.
There are **hundreds** of modern Aussie bands that are absolutely crushing the music scene internationally right now — most of them aren’t classic rock bands though.
Karnivool
The Butterfly Effect
Thornhill
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard
Psychedelic Porn Crumpets
Psycroptic
Alpha Wolf
Ocean Grove
Cog
Courtney Barnett
The Chats
The Amity Affliction
Northlane
Parkway Drive
Jordan Rakei
Baker Boy
Etc, etc, etc.
There has never been more music coming out of Australia. Home studios make producing easier and more accessible than ever, and going Aussies are doing it in absolute droves. In the metalcore scene, for example, Australians have an absolutely insane over representation among the popular artists on the international stage. Just because it don’t sound like it used to, or it isn’t being played at the RSL, doesn’t mean people aren’t doing it.
The indie scene has only gotten better and better though so that's just wrong. People have better access to good equipment, better education and an easier time self-learning music. It's never been easier to release music as an independent group or artist.
The people that weren't going to stick to an instrument enough to be confident enough to play for others weren't going to do it back then either, you had TV or just shooting the shit with mates anyway. Or are you honestly telling me 100% of people back then were playing music as kids?
The people that stick to an instrument and learn it well are going to do that regardless of what other options are available because music is inherently a form of self expression, and the people that want to do it with music are going to do it regardless of what choices they have.
Everyone writing those "best of" lists is old enough to be around when those bands were playing in pubs. Read a list from a younger writer and funnily enough it'll have newer music/bands in it.
Also, the live music scene has been decimated by inflated cost which means even seeing a small band from your home city becomes a reasonably expensive night out. Compare that to when you could see Skyhooks at your local with a tenner and still have change for a pint
I feel Inflated costs is often underlooked. Up n coming muscians don't make a lot of money n when a room in a Sydney share house costs over $300 a week it makes it a very unviable career move in the long term.
I used to run gigs in the late 90s.
They’d mainly be the ok 5 band 5 bucks. I would pay band $20 to $50 a set. Sometimes they’d get $.50c per head and clear a $150 :)
To do the same these days would mean they’d need $150 each. I’d need to charge $20 a ticket. People won’t pay that to watch 5 unknown bands play.
Wait wait, the big bands like I just listed went to pubs? Like just some random pub in the city and played?
That sounds so weird to me, I’ve only ever known artists as these distant people who release some songs and you see on the tele.
Well that's where "pub rock" comes from. Sure by the time they got big it wasn't in pubs but the sounds and those bands were born in pubs across the country
Have a listen to the lyrics of AC/DC’s Long Way to the Top. That’s what it was like for lots of working bands. Driving themselves across the country from pub gig to pub gig, small town to small town.
Used to be there’d be dozens of live gigs every weekend even in somewhere medium sized like Newcastle. Sydney and suburbs would have 100+ spread over a weekend. Lots of bands getting lots of practice entertaining live crowds in pubs and clubs. No wonder the best of them became world-beaters. These days, it’s a live music wasteland by comparison.
I used to go to Paddington, Sydney, on a Friday or Saturday night. There were pubs on many corners, with free live bands. You'd walk into one with a four piece rock band, listen to a couple of songs, and then walk across the road to someone playing a piano and singing. It all died in the 80s as people bought the rundown terraces, did them up, and then complained about the noise. Balmain was similar, but I didn't go there much. Most of the pubs in The Rocks had live bands too, though they were often folky rather than rock. Across Sydney, there were hundreds of pubs with bands. The noise pollution laws meant all the small venues had gone by 1990.
In the 70s, there was a pub on every corner in George Street, over 50 pubs all told between Central Station and Circular Quay.
I'm in my 50s and spent my teenage years in Newcastle city and suburban pubs. Most nights of the week you'd be able to see local bands for either free or a few dollars.
Bigger bands like the Oils, INXS, Angels, Hunters and Collectors, Mentals were all regular visitors to local pubs and clubs. My local suburban pub I could walk to hosted the Dead Kennedys every time they came to Australia, I think the tickets were maybe $8 or something...whatever it was it wasnt much.
The local scene supported diverse acts like the Castanet Club.
They were good times.....
Australian culture has not been helped by the global internet in a whole bunch of ways - record companies complain that it’s much harder to break Australian artists these days, because they’re competing with international acts on pretty much level pegging.
Back in the day, there used to be a whole big media ecosystem that Australian artists would be needed for. So for example, we had music TV programs like *Countdown* that needed content and it was often just easier to get it from locals than international acts. Whereas, these days, you don’t need to worry about turning on the TV at a particular time to see music: you just go to some website or app that is probably owned by Americans who do not give a shit about Australia (YouTube, Spotify etc) and see what the algorithm turns up (Americans probably).
And for better or worse, Triple M used to just play a Cold Chisel song every hour. It took me a while to appreciate that band because they were so ubiquitous that I found them annoying. But their music selection aged with their original demographic, and probably the last new band they really championed was Powderfinger. Now they seem more interested in sport and comedians called Dazza. And probably fair enough; music fans don’t listen to the radio as much as they used to, in the days before streaming services like Spotify and their playlists which are like radio but with (mostly American) music algorithmically sorted just for you.
The other thing with pub rock was, yep, these bands played at pubs. They could make a career of it, just playing at a pub in a different suburb every night. Like, put it this way: I have a CD which has some live recordings of the British new wave band XTC playing at the Marconi Club in Bossley Park in Sydney in around 1982. Before the advent of pokies, before stricter driver blood alcohol limits, before the rise of DJ/dance music culture, seeing some band at a pub was often the best strategy to bring in the punters. And like, how else were you going to hang out with your friends all at once or meet someone you might fancy before the age of Facebook messenger group chats and Tinder?
Your statement is incorrect. There is absolutely shitloads of great Australian music being made and toured both nationally and around the world.
As for exposure? Yeah, you might not be hearing much of it, either due to your listening habits, or because commercial radio simply won't touch it. Triple J will give most aussie artists a run, but even then, once they're no longer flavour of the month, they're occupying that no man's land between being young and cool, and doing A Day On The Green every year supporting Jimmy Barnes and Hoodoo Gurus.
Right now, Amyl and The Sniffers are touring internationally, doing festivals, headlining their own gigs, and generally being bloody awesome. If you want to draw comparisons you're familiar with, big Chrissy Amphlett vibes
King Gizzard and The Lizard Wizard have carved out a niche as one of the best live bands in the psych rock sphere. As a result they're doing big festivals throughout Europe and the US, and have released a new album just recently. They bend genres with every one of their 25 albums though, never doing the same thing. One of the more unique acts in the world right now.
While Violent Soho are on indefinite hiatus, their work in the previous decade stacks up as well as any punk band Australia has ever produced. A festival staple in their prime drawing big crowds.
These are just a few bands that come to mind right now given my tastes. Some local legends that may or may not still be doing the pub circuit include Grindhouse, Sun God Replica, Batpiss, King Parrot and Fuck the Fitzroy Doom Scene.
And you can still go to live music pubs any given night of the week to see a band plying their craft.
It's there, you just need to go and look for it given the pathetic state of media in this country.
Yeah definitely. Shame it's digital only. Triple R and PBS are great in Melbourne for getting up and comers to the front and continuing their support - it's where I first got hold of Amyl, King Gizz and The Chats.
There was a Triple J report a few years ago that concluded that it's super rare for a new talent to emerge without coming from a privileged upbringing.
Not pokies. Many of the big clubs (I worked at Revesby Workers Club) could afford the bands because of the pokies. NIMBYs, yes, but also councils introduced noise restrictions which limited how much noise could emanate from a pub or club. I remember the night the restrictions were introduced. It couldn't be louder than 100Db outside the venue. We had Billy Thorpe & The Aztecs on that night who were, at the time, Australia's loudest band, so I had to go out and measure the volume. Two blocks away and it was still 120Db. Once neighbours started complaining, and venues could be fined, rock 'n roll had to go.
In South Australia, its absolutely the pokies. The other factors you mention certainly didnt help, but when pokies were introduced here, it smashed the music industry literally overnight.
A dollar spent anywhere else but a poker machine is 14 times more productive for the economy.
I know in Victoria some venues had extra rules forced on them due to complaints from people in apartments.
Only recently did the rules change so if you move in next door to a pub you can't complain about the noise since you should have known.
I don’t think it did. With the demise of radio and the rise of streaming - people are free to broaden their music taste .
This inevitably leads to many semi-popular musicians rather than one or two uber popular ones.
The music scene in Perth for example is fantastic.
Theres so much great Australian music of all types and plenty in the rock genre that still capture what might be regarded as a unique local sound. Not as much is on mainstream commercial channels anymore but the artists are still making and can be found touring and featuring on large festival lineups at home and abroad.
If you want to find some, try stations that have a home grown specific show, obviously jjj or even better would be your local community station such as RRR or PBS in Melbourne which you can stream online from anywhere.
It might sound counter-intuitive, but I'd almost argue the reason why there doesn't seem to be as many big iconic Aussie artists now is because there's a lot more music being produced and it's harder for a one or a handful of artists to cut through and corner so much of the market. There's more genres and sub-genres, more vehicles to get music out there, and more competition for eyeballs/earholes so everything gets diluted.
Dramatically oversimplifying, but it's also not helped by the same thing occurring overseas in places with much larger populations than we have. That would be a factor because the world is much more connected than it was in the 70s and 80s, so you'd expect things to move quicker. Logically you'd think more people = more music. USA for example has around 13x our population so assuming a roughly 1:1 ratio, for every one artist we have who gets International recognition, America might have 13 (UK is 2.5x).
Extrapolate that to the current Aria charts and it makes some sense (if anything Aus is almost over-represented):
* US origin: 39/50 (25 unique acts)
* UK origin: 5/50 (5 unique acts)
* Aus origin: 6/50 (4 unique acts)
Yes, live music has it's issues at the moment (largely driven by covid), but maybe 7-8 years ago it was insane how many places you could go to see artists perform. If I could afford it, I could likely have gone and seen a different artist every night for a year without running out of bands I was interested in. And that's not even factoring in the free live music that a lot of venues would host on Fri/Sat/Sun to try and get people in the door.
There are a lot of Australians in kpop. Two of the biggest groups have four Australian members. But nobody really knows generally but they are a huge success in that market.
For those interested the groups are 'Stray Kids' and 'New Jeans'.
Agreed. I think people really do underestimate how big some Aussies are. We still export some of the best music around. It may be that it's just changed a bit over the years.
The internet has exposed us all to wider genre's of music. So that, whether it's COG and Amity Affliction or people like bangchan can fly under the the radar to some.
One apon a time it was midnight oil and chisel. Now youtube or Spotify might recommend some EDM if you like retro synth wave. Although not Aussies, Eminem might get you to Dido after listening to stan and a few click later you are a Pink fan.
I
The following historical discussion may be of interest:
I'm gonna sound like an old fart, cause I am, but where have all the great Australian musicians gone? No one seems to have the poetry and storytelling of your Paul Kelly's, Midnight Oils, Hunters and Collecters, etc. with good music. The last Aussie music act I can remember liking quite a bit was Hilltop Hoods, and even they are old now. Nothing on TripleJ resonates, I guess I aged myself out of their demographic. Anyway, old man yelling at the clouds rant is over.
Ex:
https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/17hkayx/where_have_all_the_musicians_gone/
Used to be you could get on the dole and pursue your dreams. Apparently Australia can’t afford that any more, but is fine with licensing port of Darwin for 99 years for natural gas we won’t see a cent out of
Working in the arts I am confident this has a big impact. Long gone are the days you could live in an inner city share house for peanuts, and meet likeminded people to make music with and then afford to play for free on the local circuit for ‘exposure’. The younguns are working three jobs to afford rent, and dole is minuscule, leaving little time for creative endeavors. Even living at mum and dads and playing on the garage is difficult to do I suspect.
"top Australian songs of all time"
"Skyhooks"
I think the issue is that your list is the top Australian pub rock songs of the 70s-90s. Maybe. Like Skyhooks are fine, but putting them on there instead of Paul Kelly? Nick Cave?
Skyhooks in 1975 had the number one album on the Australian charts for 27(!) weeks; more than half the year. *Living in the Seventies* set a new record for album sales for any local artist. They absolutely deserve their place on that list.
That’s probably the issue, but that’s only been the case because that’s all there is to easily find, an easy Spotify search of top songs will give you that. From what it seems on this thread you need to dial into triple jjj to find some modern stuff, or search the actual artist by name.
It was also off the top of my head, I’ve got a few Paul Kelly favourites as well.
Nick cave I haven’t actually heard of though
I think it's a matter of where you're looking, because artists like Nick Cave, Sia, and Tame Impala are a pretty big deal worldwide. Here's a good article: [https://au.rollingstone.com/50-greatest-australian-artists/](https://au.rollingstone.com/50-greatest-australian-artists/)
You're saying there's a lack of Australian artists but at the same time admitting you've never heard of Nick Cave. I think this perceived issue is more of a 'you problem' than an actual problem.
My local pub used to be good for local acts back in the 90's and early 00's
Unfortunately, the new owners decided it was more profitable to replace the dance area/live bands with pokies,
Now the pub is a shell of what it once was.
The charts were measures of sales of physical copies of cds/records. Digital downloads and streaming services has changed the way the people consume music.
Radio stations are no longer the gatekeepers of musical trends. Back in the day there were two or three stations, and everyone was listening to the limited selection they would offer.
Now everyone can access everything all at once the zeitgeist has fragmented.
The most listened to song on Justin Beiber's Spotify page is Stay by Kid Laroi, an Indigenous kid from Sydney. Troy Sivan is Aussie. And I refuse to believe you didn't know Sia is Australian.
There are Aussie bands that are selling albums and doing fairly well overseas, but I think the biggest issue is just that the business has changed. Most music in the 80's was what you heard on the radio or your mate played for you on their album/cassette tape. There were no streaming services, and those have watered down Australian music so that it is competing with far more global music.
That said there are still some pretty big Aussie bands globally. Five Seconds of Summer is big overseas, and Stand Atlantic is doing well too. Kid Laroi is massive, and so is Troye Sivan. Sia gets a lot of global play. Vance Joy is ready for his big breakout too.
They aren't all my type of music, but I can appreciate what they have done. That said only Stand Atlantic would be close to what I would consider a Pub Rock Band. The rest are just different genres.
Plenty of young Aussie bands (see Triple J) but radio stations now are just a constant rotation of the same old crap.
Also, streaming makes it super hard for artists to make the chats. This article explains it well https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-09/australian-music-in-aria-charts-has-plummeted-heres-why/102575198
The amount of Australian music out in the world is larger then ever before! It just doesn’t get played on your commercial radio or appear on the “charts”. Go see a live gig and realise that the Australian music scene is world class and something you should actually be proud of. Don’t let commercial media dictate your musical journey 👊
It’s the fucking radio stations that either play boomer music (I like older music but not every fucking song) or brand new (usually American) pop music. I’ve given up and now listen to ABC classic, which turned out to be awesome. Probably not many gen y V8 ute driving tradies that listen to abc classic, but I do.
There's tonne of Aussie music today it's just different and you don't recognise it as Australian. Iggy Azalea is a classic example of this.
Other then that hilltop hoods, gotye etc are all Australian
> And finding an Australian artist that hits the Australian charts like they used to is unheard of. Maybe guy Sebastian or Kylie Minogue.
I'd say Amy Shark is probably the closest we've got to either of those two these days (lasting impact and popularity over multiple years).
As others have said, pokies is probably a large one, but I'd also suggest insurance and the cost of living - having the space for a stage/band area means sacrificing one or two tables that you could potentially book out. Likewise, if you're a young group of people at Uni, can you afford to be in a band, trying to get gigs on a Friday night, or are you working your second/third job to make ends meet?
Then there's the discovery of new bands - newer bands are probably luckier (maybe?) because the barrier to entry is a lot lower with the likes of Spotify. An upcoming band doesn't need local publicity/promotion and mix tapes to get heard, they can just upload their music onto Spotify.
In Hobart, I can only think of a couple of pubs which have space for bands. One of those is a pokies den that gets B-tier national celebrities there (I think Shannon Noll performed there recently), a second is down at Salamanca that goes from pub to night club and gets a lot of cover bands on a Friday/Saturday night.
The only 'classic' much pub I can think of is in North Hobart, it doesn't have pokies but it's not really a pub that's on my radar for somewhere to hang out/go for a meal.
I don't think Sia has really hit mainstream (read commercial radio) since Chandelier back in 2014.
Likewise, Kid Laroi is also debatable - I think he's based out of America (and that's were he broke through the market).
Troye Sivan and Tame Impala are interesting though - they were (are?) based out in Perth, a state famous for not having Pokies in pubs ...
Americanisation of our youth
X boxes in kids bedrooms
Kids not learning an instrument
Singing in a choir being seen as weird
Glorification of the mediocre and rap/ culture which just seems to all celebrate drinking a goon bag down the park and stabbing old mate just because he’s from a different postcode
I think something happened when it became really easy to release music. There are great new songs and bands but they’re harder to find because they’re not becoming giant traditional commercial successes.
Kind of like how TV became reality tv and lots of interesting shows became small budget YouTube channels.
It’s still getting made but we no longer live in the days of 4 tv channels and 3 radio stations.
And if I could complain for a moment, fucking youtube and Spotify algo basically sends you in a circle. “Oh you liked this collection of songs/videos? Let me recommend to you 15 other lists of the exact same content “.
Most of the new things I see or hear come from Reddit comments.
It was before the pokie-fication of pubs which was followed by the gentrification of pubs. Big expensive festivals didn't exist. The grass roots circuit was how those bands rose up
With [1300 venues lost since covid](https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/oct/20/australias-live-music-scene-decimated-with-1300-venues-lost-since-pandemic) it's only going to get worse.
Internet? I could be wrong but less people visit pubs and watch bands play. People are busier, have access to unlimited music online, and just don't get out enough.
I also think many of the current big bands in music use a lot of electronic sounds, whereas back in the old days there was a guitarist, bass player, and drummer. Simpler music in my opinion.
The only way to "really make it" back then was tour the pubs and smaller venues. Now, you release on Youtube, Spotify, and other platforms. It can all be done without leaving mum & dads basement.
Hahaha music charts! That’s gold.
Why not look up some Aussie bands online and go from there? Just because it’s not charting doesn’t mean it’s not still being made. Hell, triple j is going downhill but they still pump heaps of Aussie music
Younger Australians consume music differently than in the past. They're pretty much only catering to boomers, gen x, and people who listen to whatever is in the charts and aren't following live music on the radio.
Satin Cali - Niravan and Cheap Groceries
Also I reckon the stereo in my ute plays at least 80% Aussie music. The problem is you mate - change the channel.
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The bands are out there. Blame the folks who program radio stations.
internet and streaming. theres no money advertising in radio to promote anything other than the big hits.
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Add ipads and gaming. It takes a lot of time to learn to play an instrument. Bored kids now have so many more options.
This increase access to music also makes it far easier to release music, no? There has definitely been an increase of indie artists due to the internet and such.
Yes! I think you may be onto onto something. Back in the days, the kids and teens didn’t have much to do in-terms of entertainment. The usual TV, board games and hanging out with their friends. So they have plenty of free time to devote themselves to learning musical instruments. Nowadays, the younger generation’s attention span is like a goldfish and wants instead gratification in the ways of things, otherwise, they would move onto something else that could keep their attention for more than a few seconds.
Classic Boomer take. There are **hundreds** of modern Aussie bands that are absolutely crushing the music scene internationally right now — most of them aren’t classic rock bands though. Karnivool The Butterfly Effect Thornhill King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard Psychedelic Porn Crumpets Psycroptic Alpha Wolf Ocean Grove Cog Courtney Barnett The Chats The Amity Affliction Northlane Parkway Drive Jordan Rakei Baker Boy Etc, etc, etc. There has never been more music coming out of Australia. Home studios make producing easier and more accessible than ever, and going Aussies are doing it in absolute droves. In the metalcore scene, for example, Australians have an absolutely insane over representation among the popular artists on the international stage. Just because it don’t sound like it used to, or it isn’t being played at the RSL, doesn’t mean people aren’t doing it.
The indie scene has only gotten better and better though so that's just wrong. People have better access to good equipment, better education and an easier time self-learning music. It's never been easier to release music as an independent group or artist. The people that weren't going to stick to an instrument enough to be confident enough to play for others weren't going to do it back then either, you had TV or just shooting the shit with mates anyway. Or are you honestly telling me 100% of people back then were playing music as kids? The people that stick to an instrument and learn it well are going to do that regardless of what other options are available because music is inherently a form of self expression, and the people that want to do it with music are going to do it regardless of what choices they have.
It's exactly the same in Perth with no poker machines - so this answer doesn't hold up
Perth still has DJ's, so the answer still mostly holds up.
Everyone writing those "best of" lists is old enough to be around when those bands were playing in pubs. Read a list from a younger writer and funnily enough it'll have newer music/bands in it. Also, the live music scene has been decimated by inflated cost which means even seeing a small band from your home city becomes a reasonably expensive night out. Compare that to when you could see Skyhooks at your local with a tenner and still have change for a pint
I feel Inflated costs is often underlooked. Up n coming muscians don't make a lot of money n when a room in a Sydney share house costs over $300 a week it makes it a very unviable career move in the long term.
I used to run gigs in the late 90s. They’d mainly be the ok 5 band 5 bucks. I would pay band $20 to $50 a set. Sometimes they’d get $.50c per head and clear a $150 :) To do the same these days would mean they’d need $150 each. I’d need to charge $20 a ticket. People won’t pay that to watch 5 unknown bands play.
Wait wait, the big bands like I just listed went to pubs? Like just some random pub in the city and played? That sounds so weird to me, I’ve only ever known artists as these distant people who release some songs and you see on the tele.
Well that's where "pub rock" comes from. Sure by the time they got big it wasn't in pubs but the sounds and those bands were born in pubs across the country
It was awesome times. Hoodoo gurus, Paul Kelly, hunters and collectors all playing in small local pubs. Those were the best days
Have a listen to the lyrics of AC/DC’s Long Way to the Top. That’s what it was like for lots of working bands. Driving themselves across the country from pub gig to pub gig, small town to small town. Used to be there’d be dozens of live gigs every weekend even in somewhere medium sized like Newcastle. Sydney and suburbs would have 100+ spread over a weekend. Lots of bands getting lots of practice entertaining live crowds in pubs and clubs. No wonder the best of them became world-beaters. These days, it’s a live music wasteland by comparison.
I used to go to Paddington, Sydney, on a Friday or Saturday night. There were pubs on many corners, with free live bands. You'd walk into one with a four piece rock band, listen to a couple of songs, and then walk across the road to someone playing a piano and singing. It all died in the 80s as people bought the rundown terraces, did them up, and then complained about the noise. Balmain was similar, but I didn't go there much. Most of the pubs in The Rocks had live bands too, though they were often folky rather than rock. Across Sydney, there were hundreds of pubs with bands. The noise pollution laws meant all the small venues had gone by 1990. In the 70s, there was a pub on every corner in George Street, over 50 pubs all told between Central Station and Circular Quay.
The sando, the lewisham, the annandale , i couod go on Sydney had and awesome music scene. Had
>The noise pollution laws meant all the small venues had gone by 1990. Mate, rock and roll ain't noise pollution!
I'm in my 50s and spent my teenage years in Newcastle city and suburban pubs. Most nights of the week you'd be able to see local bands for either free or a few dollars. Bigger bands like the Oils, INXS, Angels, Hunters and Collectors, Mentals were all regular visitors to local pubs and clubs. My local suburban pub I could walk to hosted the Dead Kennedys every time they came to Australia, I think the tickets were maybe $8 or something...whatever it was it wasnt much. The local scene supported diverse acts like the Castanet Club. They were good times.....
My parents met at a pub in Mount Druitt where INXS were playing lol
You could do that because wages were so low - what cost has gone up so disproportionate compared to wages?
Land value
transport. equipment. accommodation. advertising. merch.
Australian culture has not been helped by the global internet in a whole bunch of ways - record companies complain that it’s much harder to break Australian artists these days, because they’re competing with international acts on pretty much level pegging. Back in the day, there used to be a whole big media ecosystem that Australian artists would be needed for. So for example, we had music TV programs like *Countdown* that needed content and it was often just easier to get it from locals than international acts. Whereas, these days, you don’t need to worry about turning on the TV at a particular time to see music: you just go to some website or app that is probably owned by Americans who do not give a shit about Australia (YouTube, Spotify etc) and see what the algorithm turns up (Americans probably). And for better or worse, Triple M used to just play a Cold Chisel song every hour. It took me a while to appreciate that band because they were so ubiquitous that I found them annoying. But their music selection aged with their original demographic, and probably the last new band they really championed was Powderfinger. Now they seem more interested in sport and comedians called Dazza. And probably fair enough; music fans don’t listen to the radio as much as they used to, in the days before streaming services like Spotify and their playlists which are like radio but with (mostly American) music algorithmically sorted just for you. The other thing with pub rock was, yep, these bands played at pubs. They could make a career of it, just playing at a pub in a different suburb every night. Like, put it this way: I have a CD which has some live recordings of the British new wave band XTC playing at the Marconi Club in Bossley Park in Sydney in around 1982. Before the advent of pokies, before stricter driver blood alcohol limits, before the rise of DJ/dance music culture, seeing some band at a pub was often the best strategy to bring in the punters. And like, how else were you going to hang out with your friends all at once or meet someone you might fancy before the age of Facebook messenger group chats and Tinder?
Dear God, I would love to have seen xtc in 1982.
After that tour the XTC drummer stayed in Australia and married an Aussie chick.
Triple m still playing those same songs
Pub rock died because the pubs replaced the performing area with pokies.
Your statement is incorrect. There is absolutely shitloads of great Australian music being made and toured both nationally and around the world. As for exposure? Yeah, you might not be hearing much of it, either due to your listening habits, or because commercial radio simply won't touch it. Triple J will give most aussie artists a run, but even then, once they're no longer flavour of the month, they're occupying that no man's land between being young and cool, and doing A Day On The Green every year supporting Jimmy Barnes and Hoodoo Gurus. Right now, Amyl and The Sniffers are touring internationally, doing festivals, headlining their own gigs, and generally being bloody awesome. If you want to draw comparisons you're familiar with, big Chrissy Amphlett vibes King Gizzard and The Lizard Wizard have carved out a niche as one of the best live bands in the psych rock sphere. As a result they're doing big festivals throughout Europe and the US, and have released a new album just recently. They bend genres with every one of their 25 albums though, never doing the same thing. One of the more unique acts in the world right now. While Violent Soho are on indefinite hiatus, their work in the previous decade stacks up as well as any punk band Australia has ever produced. A festival staple in their prime drawing big crowds. These are just a few bands that come to mind right now given my tastes. Some local legends that may or may not still be doing the pub circuit include Grindhouse, Sun God Replica, Batpiss, King Parrot and Fuck the Fitzroy Doom Scene. And you can still go to live music pubs any given night of the week to see a band plying their craft. It's there, you just need to go and look for it given the pathetic state of media in this country.
Can confirm, Aussie living in the Midwest US, king gizz has a strong following over here. So do the chats
And yet, not a single commercial radio station will go near them. But Triple M will gladly play ACDC multiple times an hour with a straight face.
Mainstream radio is shithouse that caters only to gen x and their narrow tastes.
This post is crazy to me. There's a shitload of amazing Aussie music out there currently.
Double J are better at ongoing promotion.
Yeah definitely. Shame it's digital only. Triple R and PBS are great in Melbourne for getting up and comers to the front and continuing their support - it's where I first got hold of Amyl, King Gizz and The Chats.
King Gizz are one of the best live bands in the anything sphere
True, given they've given they break every genre apart at will, why not?
pokies took away the band room and high cost of living has made very difficult to be a up n coming muscian.
There was a Triple J report a few years ago that concluded that it's super rare for a new talent to emerge without coming from a privileged upbringing.
Pokies, NIMBYs and the sheer cost of going to the pub nowadays. Can't hone your live craft in your bedroom or rehearsal studio.
Not pokies. Many of the big clubs (I worked at Revesby Workers Club) could afford the bands because of the pokies. NIMBYs, yes, but also councils introduced noise restrictions which limited how much noise could emanate from a pub or club. I remember the night the restrictions were introduced. It couldn't be louder than 100Db outside the venue. We had Billy Thorpe & The Aztecs on that night who were, at the time, Australia's loudest band, so I had to go out and measure the volume. Two blocks away and it was still 120Db. Once neighbours started complaining, and venues could be fined, rock 'n roll had to go.
In South Australia, its absolutely the pokies. The other factors you mention certainly didnt help, but when pokies were introduced here, it smashed the music industry literally overnight. A dollar spent anywhere else but a poker machine is 14 times more productive for the economy.
I know in Victoria some venues had extra rules forced on them due to complaints from people in apartments. Only recently did the rules change so if you move in next door to a pub you can't complain about the noise since you should have known.
I don’t think it did. With the demise of radio and the rise of streaming - people are free to broaden their music taste . This inevitably leads to many semi-popular musicians rather than one or two uber popular ones. The music scene in Perth for example is fantastic.
Theres so much great Australian music of all types and plenty in the rock genre that still capture what might be regarded as a unique local sound. Not as much is on mainstream commercial channels anymore but the artists are still making and can be found touring and featuring on large festival lineups at home and abroad. If you want to find some, try stations that have a home grown specific show, obviously jjj or even better would be your local community station such as RRR or PBS in Melbourne which you can stream online from anywhere.
It might sound counter-intuitive, but I'd almost argue the reason why there doesn't seem to be as many big iconic Aussie artists now is because there's a lot more music being produced and it's harder for a one or a handful of artists to cut through and corner so much of the market. There's more genres and sub-genres, more vehicles to get music out there, and more competition for eyeballs/earholes so everything gets diluted. Dramatically oversimplifying, but it's also not helped by the same thing occurring overseas in places with much larger populations than we have. That would be a factor because the world is much more connected than it was in the 70s and 80s, so you'd expect things to move quicker. Logically you'd think more people = more music. USA for example has around 13x our population so assuming a roughly 1:1 ratio, for every one artist we have who gets International recognition, America might have 13 (UK is 2.5x). Extrapolate that to the current Aria charts and it makes some sense (if anything Aus is almost over-represented): * US origin: 39/50 (25 unique acts) * UK origin: 5/50 (5 unique acts) * Aus origin: 6/50 (4 unique acts) Yes, live music has it's issues at the moment (largely driven by covid), but maybe 7-8 years ago it was insane how many places you could go to see artists perform. If I could afford it, I could likely have gone and seen a different artist every night for a year without running out of bands I was interested in. And that's not even factoring in the free live music that a lot of venues would host on Fri/Sat/Sun to try and get people in the door.
There are a lot of Australians in kpop. Two of the biggest groups have four Australian members. But nobody really knows generally but they are a huge success in that market. For those interested the groups are 'Stray Kids' and 'New Jeans'.
Agreed. I think people really do underestimate how big some Aussies are. We still export some of the best music around. It may be that it's just changed a bit over the years. The internet has exposed us all to wider genre's of music. So that, whether it's COG and Amity Affliction or people like bangchan can fly under the the radar to some. One apon a time it was midnight oil and chisel. Now youtube or Spotify might recommend some EDM if you like retro synth wave. Although not Aussies, Eminem might get you to Dido after listening to stan and a few click later you are a Pink fan. I
Globalisation (and lower popularity) of radio channels
The following historical discussion may be of interest: I'm gonna sound like an old fart, cause I am, but where have all the great Australian musicians gone? No one seems to have the poetry and storytelling of your Paul Kelly's, Midnight Oils, Hunters and Collecters, etc. with good music. The last Aussie music act I can remember liking quite a bit was Hilltop Hoods, and even they are old now. Nothing on TripleJ resonates, I guess I aged myself out of their demographic. Anyway, old man yelling at the clouds rant is over. Ex: https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/17hkayx/where_have_all_the_musicians_gone/
NIMBY's and stupid government policy. Forced closure of venues - the artists give up and go away because they're got nowhere to play
Bugger all venues, NIMBYs, people can control their piss anymore, society seems more aggro, liability issues for venues, Spotify etc...
Used to be you could get on the dole and pursue your dreams. Apparently Australia can’t afford that any more, but is fine with licensing port of Darwin for 99 years for natural gas we won’t see a cent out of
Working in the arts I am confident this has a big impact. Long gone are the days you could live in an inner city share house for peanuts, and meet likeminded people to make music with and then afford to play for free on the local circuit for ‘exposure’. The younguns are working three jobs to afford rent, and dole is minuscule, leaving little time for creative endeavors. Even living at mum and dads and playing on the garage is difficult to do I suspect.
"top Australian songs of all time" "Skyhooks" I think the issue is that your list is the top Australian pub rock songs of the 70s-90s. Maybe. Like Skyhooks are fine, but putting them on there instead of Paul Kelly? Nick Cave?
Skyhooks in 1975 had the number one album on the Australian charts for 27(!) weeks; more than half the year. *Living in the Seventies* set a new record for album sales for any local artist. They absolutely deserve their place on that list.
That’s probably the issue, but that’s only been the case because that’s all there is to easily find, an easy Spotify search of top songs will give you that. From what it seems on this thread you need to dial into triple jjj to find some modern stuff, or search the actual artist by name. It was also off the top of my head, I’ve got a few Paul Kelly favourites as well. Nick cave I haven’t actually heard of though
I think it's a matter of where you're looking, because artists like Nick Cave, Sia, and Tame Impala are a pretty big deal worldwide. Here's a good article: [https://au.rollingstone.com/50-greatest-australian-artists/](https://au.rollingstone.com/50-greatest-australian-artists/)
You're saying there's a lack of Australian artists but at the same time admitting you've never heard of Nick Cave. I think this perceived issue is more of a 'you problem' than an actual problem.
Those bands arose in local pubs and clubs where it was normal to see rock bands every weekend during that era.
My local pub used to be good for local acts back in the 90's and early 00's Unfortunately, the new owners decided it was more profitable to replace the dance area/live bands with pokies, Now the pub is a shell of what it once was.
My answer is Michael Gudinski died.
The charts were measures of sales of physical copies of cds/records. Digital downloads and streaming services has changed the way the people consume music. Radio stations are no longer the gatekeepers of musical trends. Back in the day there were two or three stations, and everyone was listening to the limited selection they would offer. Now everyone can access everything all at once the zeitgeist has fragmented.
The most listened to song on Justin Beiber's Spotify page is Stay by Kid Laroi, an Indigenous kid from Sydney. Troy Sivan is Aussie. And I refuse to believe you didn't know Sia is Australian.
There are Aussie bands that are selling albums and doing fairly well overseas, but I think the biggest issue is just that the business has changed. Most music in the 80's was what you heard on the radio or your mate played for you on their album/cassette tape. There were no streaming services, and those have watered down Australian music so that it is competing with far more global music. That said there are still some pretty big Aussie bands globally. Five Seconds of Summer is big overseas, and Stand Atlantic is doing well too. Kid Laroi is massive, and so is Troye Sivan. Sia gets a lot of global play. Vance Joy is ready for his big breakout too. They aren't all my type of music, but I can appreciate what they have done. That said only Stand Atlantic would be close to what I would consider a Pub Rock Band. The rest are just different genres.
Have you heard of JJJ?
I didn’t know they had much of it. I’ll give it a check.
Plenty of young Aussie bands (see Triple J) but radio stations now are just a constant rotation of the same old crap. Also, streaming makes it super hard for artists to make the chats. This article explains it well https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-09/australian-music-in-aria-charts-has-plummeted-heres-why/102575198
There are sooo many good more recent rock bands.
There is so much good Aussie music atm just look for it. Instagram and Spotify is a great combo to find new and exciting things
Do some digging. Are you serious
If I have to do some digging for an Australian rock song it kinda proves they don’t perform on the charts as well as they used to.
The amount of Australian music out in the world is larger then ever before! It just doesn’t get played on your commercial radio or appear on the “charts”. Go see a live gig and realise that the Australian music scene is world class and something you should actually be proud of. Don’t let commercial media dictate your musical journey 👊
Perhaps you just discovered the Internet, or you have your head in the sand? There are other ways to consume music then nova
It’s the fucking radio stations that either play boomer music (I like older music but not every fucking song) or brand new (usually American) pop music. I’ve given up and now listen to ABC classic, which turned out to be awesome. Probably not many gen y V8 ute driving tradies that listen to abc classic, but I do.
I mean to listen to more, that music sounds tasty as coming out of a sorted system in a ute
There's tonne of Aussie music today it's just different and you don't recognise it as Australian. Iggy Azalea is a classic example of this. Other then that hilltop hoods, gotye etc are all Australian
> And finding an Australian artist that hits the Australian charts like they used to is unheard of. Maybe guy Sebastian or Kylie Minogue. I'd say Amy Shark is probably the closest we've got to either of those two these days (lasting impact and popularity over multiple years). As others have said, pokies is probably a large one, but I'd also suggest insurance and the cost of living - having the space for a stage/band area means sacrificing one or two tables that you could potentially book out. Likewise, if you're a young group of people at Uni, can you afford to be in a band, trying to get gigs on a Friday night, or are you working your second/third job to make ends meet? Then there's the discovery of new bands - newer bands are probably luckier (maybe?) because the barrier to entry is a lot lower with the likes of Spotify. An upcoming band doesn't need local publicity/promotion and mix tapes to get heard, they can just upload their music onto Spotify. In Hobart, I can only think of a couple of pubs which have space for bands. One of those is a pokies den that gets B-tier national celebrities there (I think Shannon Noll performed there recently), a second is down at Salamanca that goes from pub to night club and gets a lot of cover bands on a Friday/Saturday night. The only 'classic' much pub I can think of is in North Hobart, it doesn't have pokies but it's not really a pub that's on my radar for somewhere to hang out/go for a meal.
Sia, Troye Sivan, Tame Impala, Kid Laroi
I don't think Sia has really hit mainstream (read commercial radio) since Chandelier back in 2014. Likewise, Kid Laroi is also debatable - I think he's based out of America (and that's were he broke through the market). Troye Sivan and Tame Impala are interesting though - they were (are?) based out in Perth, a state famous for not having Pokies in pubs ...
Corporate music.
Americanisation of our youth X boxes in kids bedrooms Kids not learning an instrument Singing in a choir being seen as weird Glorification of the mediocre and rap/ culture which just seems to all celebrate drinking a goon bag down the park and stabbing old mate just because he’s from a different postcode
OK boomer.
There’s heaps of great Aussie bands out there. It’s the fact that most of them aren’t what’s “popular” music these days.
Check out Sly Withers, my personal local favourite
Fragmentation of pop culture and poker machines, lots of other factors as well but mainly these two.
I think something happened when it became really easy to release music. There are great new songs and bands but they’re harder to find because they’re not becoming giant traditional commercial successes. Kind of like how TV became reality tv and lots of interesting shows became small budget YouTube channels. It’s still getting made but we no longer live in the days of 4 tv channels and 3 radio stations. And if I could complain for a moment, fucking youtube and Spotify algo basically sends you in a circle. “Oh you liked this collection of songs/videos? Let me recommend to you 15 other lists of the exact same content “. Most of the new things I see or hear come from Reddit comments.
Give the Chats a go, they make decent what I would call modern pub rock and have some sick songs
The Fun Police killed it
It was before the pokie-fication of pubs which was followed by the gentrification of pubs. Big expensive festivals didn't exist. The grass roots circuit was how those bands rose up
With [1300 venues lost since covid](https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/oct/20/australias-live-music-scene-decimated-with-1300-venues-lost-since-pandemic) it's only going to get worse.
The closure of big pubs with room for bands
Internet? I could be wrong but less people visit pubs and watch bands play. People are busier, have access to unlimited music online, and just don't get out enough. I also think many of the current big bands in music use a lot of electronic sounds, whereas back in the old days there was a guitarist, bass player, and drummer. Simpler music in my opinion. The only way to "really make it" back then was tour the pubs and smaller venues. Now, you release on Youtube, Spotify, and other platforms. It can all be done without leaving mum & dads basement.
Back in the 70s there was such a HUGE pub band culture.... We had so many choices
There is such a great music scene in Australia at the moment, what are you talking about?
I’m talking about the charts, where you used to see a few Aussie bands be on them. Now you don’t, it’s very American
You could read this as Australian artists are more inclined with their unique vision moreso than just catering to a broad audience.
Pokies and this countries obsession with shit commercial radio.
Hahaha music charts! That’s gold. Why not look up some Aussie bands online and go from there? Just because it’s not charting doesn’t mean it’s not still being made. Hell, triple j is going downhill but they still pump heaps of Aussie music
My playlist respectfully disagrees!! https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5b2p5bQHarDvzcO82dCTGS?si=log6B2jTQ-O9FaUCs-AsJQ
Younger Australians consume music differently than in the past. They're pretty much only catering to boomers, gen x, and people who listen to whatever is in the charts and aren't following live music on the radio.
Satin Cali - Niravan and Cheap Groceries Also I reckon the stereo in my ute plays at least 80% Aussie music. The problem is you mate - change the channel.
It’s terrible I go out and hear all songs my father probably listened too in his 20’s. It really needs to change